On this episode of This vs. That, we sit down with Ronnie Martin, pastor and Director of Leader Care and Renewal for the Harbor Network, to explore unhurried ministry versus anxious ministry.

We dig into why so many ministry leaders find themselves overextended and running ragged. Ronnie shares insights from his book "The Unhurried Pastor," co-authored with Brian Croft, which draws on Eugene Peterson's work to address the burnout epidemic in ministry today.

We discuss the "superhero pastor" mentality and how pastors can actually become addicted to being everything to everybody, even while intellectually knowing it leads to burnout.We explore the unique pressures pastors face—the flexibility of their schedules, the invisible nature of much of their work, and the constant pressure to prove their worth to their congregations.

We also tackle the tension of feeling like we're never doing enough while simultaneously doing too much, and how the question "what are you spending your time doing?" can feel like a shame-throwing question. Ronnie offers practical wisdom on discernment, the importance of the "holy pause" before saying yes to every request, and how to avoid unhealthy stacking of commitments.

This conversation offers valuable insights for anyone in ministry—or really anyone feeling overwhelmed—about finding sustainable rhythms, practicing humility, and learning to distinguish between a full calendar and one that's suffocating us.