This case includes descriptions of domestic violence. Please take care while listening.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get first dibs on live show tickets, dig into our Premium episode catalog, membership in our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. Rachel Ward is our producer. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon. 

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out GiveWell and use code PODCAST > 5-4 for a great deal: https://www.givewell.org


Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands