We're joined by Nick Estes, of The Red Nation podcast to talk about Indigenous sovereignty, land back, and how stupid Mount Rushmore is.

You can find Nick's work at www.therednation.org.

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5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. Rachel Ward is our producer. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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