On this episode of the Defiant Podcast, Charlie Hu, co-founder of Bit Layer, discusses the evolution of Bitcoin beyond its role as a store of value. The conversation addresses trends in Bitcoin programmability, the development of layer two networks, liquidity in DeFi, and adoption by institutions. Cami and Charlie discuss technical distinctions among Bitcoin scaling solutions and the integration of Bitcoin with other blockchain ecosystems. Then, they conclude by exploring practical considerations for developers and users interested in these changes.NOTE: At the time of publishing (Aug. 4) BitLayer TVL was at $400M, higher than at the time of recording which was at $300M, mentioned in the podcast intro. Chapters:00:00 Introduction; Bitcoin’s binary narrative debated 00:17 Potential impacts of low network activity 00:37 Bitlayer overview and recent platform developments 00:59 Bitcoin’s price rally and changing role 01:26 Guest background: early experiences in Web3 02:09 Lessons from Ethereum and cross-chain growth 03:15 Founding Bitlayer; motivations and industry context 06:06 Network sustainability and security considerations 09:59 Bit Layer’s technology focus and design choices 16:00 Bitcoin Virtual Machines and cross-ecosystem cooperation 30:08 Unlocking Bitcoin liquidity; DeFi adoption and risks 45:00 Institutional involvement and new use cases 52:00 Onboarding, governance, and next steps for the ecosystem