This week, we're joined by Anthony Sahyoun, member of the Lebanese experimental band SANAM, for a conversation that extends far beyond music. Recorded just before the band's autumn European tour, we explore their unique sound—a compelling blend of Arabic traditional forms, post-rock, noise, and electronic elements that defies easy categorisation.

SANAM's origins trace back to an improvisational festival in Beirut, where musicians from different scenes were brought together to play with Faust's Hans Joachim Irmler. What started as a three-day residency evolved into something far more substantial, resulting in two critically acclaimed albums that seamlessly weave microtonal Arabic melodies with contemporary Western experimental music.

We discuss the realities of being a touring band from Lebanon, where you can't simply jump in a van and drive to neighbouring territories. Anthony candidly shares what it's like to perform abroad whilst your homeland faces ongoing conflict, from the 2020 Beirut port explosion to the recent pager attacks. Including what the difference is between being home during crises versus worrying from afar.

We also delve into Beirut's vibrant but precarious cultural scene, touching on everything from the city's techno resurgence to the tragic story of Mashrou' Leila and the harassment that led to their disbandment. Anthony offers thoughtful perspectives on LGBTQ+ issues in Lebanon, explaining how religiosity became weaponised during the civil war and how political thugs use marginalised communities as pawns in power struggles.

And well, as long terms fans know, we inevitably chat about streaming and the ethics of it. Which is something we've spoken a lot about lately (and will probably speak more about in future too...). Anthony doesn't hold back, expressing a preference for people to steal music rather than stream it—a radical but consistent stance given the military-industrial complex's connections to major tech platforms. It's refreshing to hear an artist speak so frankly about these contradictions.

Anthony is engaging, thoughtful, and occasionally righteously angry throughout this interview, and we had a great time chatting to him. We thoroughly recommend you check out the band's music on Bandcamp and on catch a show in Italy or the UK this November and December:

24.11 / Roma / IT / Monk

00:00 Introduction

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Charles Bradley’s cover of Black Sabbath’s Changes is one that both hosts of this podcast believe could well be the definitive version of the song. And we say that having done three episodes on Black Sabbath — an odyssey that gave us both a newfound appreciation for one of, if not the, most important metal bands to have ever existed.

Changes itself is a great song, but this emotional reworking casts an entirely new light on its meaning and power. That, in turn, led us to dive into the work — and world — of Charles Bradley.

Much was (rightly) made of Bradley when the then 62-year-old “Screaming Eagle of Soul” burst into public consciousness in 2011 with his debut album No Time for Dreaming. He was met with widespread critical acclaim, and the record proved a major success for his label, Daptone Records. From there, he went from strength to strength, releasing two more albums before his untimely death in 2016 from stomach cancer.

A former James Brown impersonator, Bradley’s life was one of tremendous hardship, which ultimately saw him achieve his greatest dream. He burned brightly and briefly, and his final record, Changes — named after the excellent Sabbath cover nestled within — is a remarkable work to bow out with.

In this episode, we talk all about his life, through the lens of the 2011 documentary Charles Bradley: Soul of America, before discussing some of our favourite soul covers of rock songs.

If you enjoyed this episode, do take some time to check out our Patreon, where you can get early access to episode (with no ads), bonus content and much more.

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Bowie fans have long found ways to make peace with some of the more unsavoury aspects of his character and behaviour during that decade. His Thin White Duke persona highlights what, by his own admission, were “the darkest days” of his life. And while he was quick to distance himself from that character as he grew older, its influence on certain members of the British far right certainly left a mark.

Yet there is a much darker period of his life than this. It is now a matter of record that he was in sexual relationships with both Lori Maddox and Sable Starr — perhaps the two most infamous “baby groupies” of the early ’70s — when they were just 13 and 15 years old, respectively. Grim stuff all round.

We’ll be exploring both of these aspects of his life in this week’s episode, as well as the wider “baby groupie” culture of the era. This episode raises questions about separating the art from the artist, the role of 1970s rock culture, and the personal responsibility of fans. Join us as we navigate the challenging waters of moral grandstanding and personal hypocrisy, questioning if, and how, we can reconcile admiration for Bowie’s art with the transgressions of the man himself.

Highlights

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We're back after a fairly shambolic three weeks in our lives (redundancy sure does suck) with this slice of fried gold from the 1980s.

You've almost certainly heard the lead single from this record. In fact, the question as to who the singer is of the song "The Warrior" has quite likely come up on a pub quiz at some point, and you've quite likely got the answer wrong. The answer is not, as you may think, Pat Benetar. It's Patty Smyth.

The single this album is named after was an 80s hit, and penned by the legendary Holly Knight. We won't go into a huge amount of detail on her here, but suffice to say we think she's criminally underrated given some of the ginormous tunes she penned in the 80s. Indeed, we cover that in extensive detail in our episode on her short-lived band Device.

Scandal imploded soon after this record was released, and members of the band, Patty included, went on to have varying degrees of success in the late 80s and early 90s. Patty Smyth's story itself is a fascinating one, so fascinating in fact that we actually forgot to talk all about her marriage to Television's Richard Hell. That one glaring omission aside, we do a pretty deep dive into Scandal and her career afterwards.

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This week we're diving into why bands like Godspeed You! Black Emperor and King Gizzard are pulling their music from Spotify - and why it probably won't change anything.

It's a trickier situation than it seems, but the whole mess starts with Napster in 1999. 80 million people sharing MP3s illegally crashed the music industry, dropping revenue 15% in four years and creating a chain reaction that led to piracy running rampant for much of the 00s.

Enter Daniel Ek in 2006 with Spotify, which was built initially using pirated music from The Pirate Bay, telling you everything about how much they value artists. But it worked. By offering free access to entire music catalogues (with ads), Spotify created something no competitor can match without hemorrhaging money.

Today, 412 million people use Spotify's free tier. That's the foundation of their dominance - not the 263 million paying subscribers.

But this creates an impossible situation for artists. Big names with established fanbases can afford to leave, but new artists risk invisibility. Record labels and promoters judge bands by Spotify monthly listeners and post-gig discovery relies on easy music access, meaning that pulling your music from this platform could be potentially damaging for their careers.

The "just use Bandcamp" argument misses the point - it's a different business model entirely. Bandcamp is buying a car; Spotify is hiring any car you want. And as it turns out, a LOT of people prefer hiring now.

But the real problem isn't Spotify - it's "technofeudalism." Tech platforms operate like medieval fiefdoms where users become trapped serfs. Artists complain about Spotify royalties while creating free content for Instagram and TikTok, which monetise their labour through surveillance capitalism.

The arms investment angle (Daniel Ek's €600m in AI weapons) sounds damning until you realise Google runs military AI projects for Israel, Meta builds battlefield AR for the US military, and all big tech props up the military-industrial complex.

Their conclusion is bleak: there's no way out. The market expects free music and won't change. Mass boycotts might work but won't happen. The only real solution is direct artist support - gigs, merch, Bandcamp purchases, because it's almost impossible for anyone to truly extricate themselves from terrible machinery of the current internet era.

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As stated at numerous points in this episode, a lot of the things discussed here can be found in the documentary Goodbye Horses: The Many Lives of Q Lazzarus. We urge you to go check out that film here: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/qlazzarus as it is a brilliant piece of work.

It is, in fact, that only "official" release by Q Lazzarus. She would later go on to appear in Demme's next film, the wonderful Philadelphia, singing a cover of Roxy Music's classic tune "Heaven". After that, though, she would simply vanish from the industry entirely.

So what happened? Why did this seemingly promising up and coming artist, who had two huge brushes with fame, suddenly disappear without trace? Well, it's a rather complicated, and compelling, story that touches on industry discrimination, artist exploitation, and the music business's treatment of unique talents. This week we dive into that story, with the help of a remarkable documentary film called Goodbye Horses: The Many Lives of Q Lazzarus - a film that came about through an almost impossibly serendipitous encounter between filmmaker Eva Aridjis Fuentes and her mysterious subject. The documentary is available on Vimeo and you should absolutely check it out for yourself, alongside the Sacred Bones compilation of her previously unreleased works.

Please note that this story deals with some heavy themes and doesn't have the resolution we might hope for, but it's an important and deeply affecting tale that deserves to be told.

Highlights:

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Everyone knows Hulk Hogan's entrance music, but how many know the fascinating story behind Rick Derringer's "Real American"? With the recent passing of Hulk Hogan, we thought we’d revisit a previous episode and update it with new information. Oh, and also to film the whole dang thing as we weren’t doing that back then.

So, this week we’re exploring the unlikely journey of a song that became one of wrestling's most iconic themes, examining its cultural impact, political appropriation, and the complex legacy of both its creator and, in some ways, Hulk Hogan too.

From Rick Derringer's impressive musical pedigree (The McCoys, collaborations with Steely Dan, producing Weird Al) to the song's evolution from US Express theme to Hogan's signature tune, we unpack how a piece of 1980s excess became a cultural touchstone - and political football.

We also talk about Rick Derringer's extensive musical career and connections, the origins and evolution of "Real American"; WWE's "Rock and Wrestling Connection" era in the mid to late 80s; the song's political appropriation across decades; Hulk Hogan's controversial legacy and recent passing; the music video's gloriously over-the-top 80s aesthetic and more.

Let’s fight for the right of every man. Or everyone, depending on the version you prefer.

Episode Highlights

00:00 - Introduction and Hulk Hogan's recent cultural relevance

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Like us, are you somewhat uncomfortable of about Pantera playing with Metallica? Why exactly might that be? We need to explore what it is about Phil Anselmo that gives people that icky feeling.

This week we try to put some meat on the bones about the rumours that have dogged Anselmo for the last three decades of his career. White supremacist? Racist? Just a bit of a steamer?  What is it about this guy that has gotten him this reputation? Is it merited? And if it is merited, do we have any sort of obligation to act on that?

The Pattern of Behaviour

It's an issue that's dogged Phil throughout his career, but came into sharp focus at the conclusion of the Dimebash concert in 2016. The thing is though, focusing too much on that fiasco is that it allows flimsy and bad faith justifications. Too much alcohol is one. "Oh, he was just trolling" is another. They've been fairly successfully passed off as excuses for not just his misdeeds that night, but his behaviour more generally.

That smokescreen has enabled millions of paying Pantera fans to handwave away the evidence of their own eyes and ears. Denial is a powerful thing, especially when a band is so intrinsically tied up in the carefully guarded nostalgia of countless nineties teenhoods.

Anselmo's history with white supremacist rhetoric and imagery goes back a long way. It's been scattered, downplayed, obfuscated to such an extent that it's easy to lose track. We gather all those details in one place so you can make better informed decisions about where you spend your money and what sort of behaviour we seek to excuse on literally the biggest of the world's stages.

Episodes Referenced

Our interview with former white supremacist turned anti-extremist advocate Arno Michaelis: https://bleav.com/shows/unsung-podcast/episodes/in-session-12-arno-michaelis-author-anti-extremism-activist-and-former-white-nationalist-side-a-360/

Slayer - South of Heaven: https://bleav.com/shows/unsung-podcast/episodes/episode-203-south-of-heaven-by-slayer/

Highlights

00:14 Why Pantera Supporting Metallica Feels Wrong

01:02 Your Money is Your Vote: Consumer Responsibility

01:54 The Pattern Begins: Early Controversial Incidents

03:42 The Dimebash Incident: Sieg Heil on Stage

06:07 A Decades-Long History of Problematic Behaviour

21:03 Confederate Flags: Heritage Not Hate?

25:27 Dog Whistles and Lyrical Controversies

30:32 The Night Everything Changed: Dimebash 2016

31:28 What Actually Happened at the Concert

31:50 Rob Flynn Breaks Ranks

32:55 The Silence Before the Storm

33:57 From 0% to 1000% Apologetic in Three Days

35:15 The Metal Press: Complicit in the Cover-Up?

36:58 Is Metal's "Radical Freedom" Part of the Problem?

38:12 Who Is Phil Anselmo Really?

53:31 Making Informed Choices as Music Consumers

Support the Show

You can support Unsung via Patreon at www.patreon.com/unsungpod. Join at the lower tier for bonus content, early access, and our closed members group where you can suggest episodes. Or join the record club where you get sent records by independent bands from independent labels.

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You may have seen the AI band The Velvet Sundown pop up in the news recently and thought "well, that's weird". Long-time fans of the pod probably also thought "when are they going to do an episode on that?" Well, here it is!

If you've been following us for a while you'll know that every 18 months or so we seem to return to broader discussions about where music and technology intersect. It began with an episode on Threatin (if you remember who Threatin is, well done) and how one man's quest for fame led to him faking a massive fanbase. A quest that ended with him playing to empty rooms across the UK, and saw him trying to retcon it into some kind of art hoax.

Later, we discussed what a possible future using AI music might look like in March 2019, looking at the early attempts to create artificial intelligence music and how the data given to streaming platforms could very well be used to create music. An episode that is now quite prescient in retrospect. Mark was actually quite optimistic that a Velvet Sundown-esque AI band scenario would not come to pass. How naïve...

And then in October 2023 we took a two episode deep dive into Spotify playlist manipulation, and how it began way back in the early days of radio with payola. Spotify algorithm manipulation plays a huge role in how the person/entity behind The Velvet Sundown was able to gain so much traction so quickly - reaching 1.1 million plays and potentially earning £35,000+ annually.

This week's episode continues this tradition. We cover some old ground in places (the history of AI music and playlist manipulation), but for the vast majority of the episode we break new ground. We look at the hard numbers around what this synthetic music "artist" stands to make, examine other AI-generated bands like Anna Indiana, The Devil Inside, and Aventhis, ponder both the inventive and interesting uses of artificial intelligence in music as well as the more troubling ones, and look at some possible futures in the wake of all this AI band controversy.

You can also watch this episode on YouTube, if that's your thing. Link is here: https://youtu.be/04mYK3G4x5k

If you've enjoyed this episode, do consider subscribing to our Patreon at www.patreon.com/unsungpod

00:00 Introduction to The Velvet Sundown

00:36 AI in Music: From Skynet to Rei Toei

01:35 The Rise of The Velvet Sundown

03:05 AI Bands and Their Impact

07:33 History of AI in Music

17:18 Modern AI Music Innovations

33:31 The Future of AI in Music

36:10 Financial Implications of AI Bands

42:05 The Impact of AI on Job Replacement

43:43 The Uncanny Valley in AI Music

45:07 Genres and AI's Ability to Mimic Them

49:57 AI's Influence on Modern Music Production

55:21 The Rise of AI in Country Music

59:24 The Future of AI in the Music Industry

01:07:19 Ethical and Regulatory Concerns

01:21:34 Concluding Thoughts on AI in Music

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This week we're talking about US Maple. Which is a bit like saying we're talking about having your teeth drilled without anaesthetic.

The Chicago quartet spent twelve years making music that deliberately disappointed every expectation you might have about rock music. They took guitars, drums, and vocals and somehow made them sound like they were arguing with each other in a language nobody understood. It was brilliant. It was infuriating. It was absolutely necessary.

This is the final part of our Anti Rock trilogy, where we've been exploring bands that knew the rules of rock music inside out and chose to break every single one of them. US Maple didn't just break the rules though. They took the rulebook, fed it through a modified guitar with quarter tone frets, and sang over it like a demented lounge singer having a breakdown.

We get into their impossible discography, their custom instruments that were designed to sound worse, their legendary tour with Pavement where they got pelted with rubbish nightly, and that infamous Oklahoma City incident involving Xanax and a cockroach. We also try to answer the eternal question: why would anyone voluntarily listen to this?

Fair warning: this episode might make you feel slightly seasick. That's entirely by design.

Featuring Ferruccio Quercetti from the brilliant Italian band Cut, who knows more about post punk and experimental music than literally anyone we know.

Highlights:

00:00 Introduction and Welcome

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