In this episode of VFM Pensions, Nico and Darren are joined by "Red" Rory Murphy,  trustee chair, board adviser, pensions commentator and lifelong trade unionist.

Rory brings a refreshingly different perspective to the pensions debate, shaped by decades in the trade union movement and hands-on experience of running smaller schemes.

In a typically wide-ranging conversation we touch on the role of trustees and why they are too cautious when it comes to delivering better outcomes for members. We look at the role of trusteeship in a world dominated by master trusts and professional trustees, the importance of the member voice, and whether fiduciary duty has been interpreted far too narrowly, acting as a barrier to innovation.

At its heart, this episode asks a simple (but maybe) uncomfortable question: who is the pensions system really for and what would it take for trustees to be braver in acting for members?