Victors in Grad School

The transition from undergraduate to graduate school can be challenging and daunting, especially for first-generation college students. In this blog post, we will delve into the experiences of Quion Wheeler, a detective and school resource officer with the Pontiac School District, who pursued a master's degree in public administration at the University of Michigan's Rackham Graduate School. Quion's journey reflects the struggles, triumphs, and valuable lessons learned through the transition from undergraduate to graduate education.

First-Generation College Experience

Quion shares that he was a first-generation college student, and the pressure to pursue higher education was significant. His undergraduate experience at the University of Michigan Flint began with struggles and a lack of academic confidence. However, the desire to fulfill his parents' aspirations and prove himself as a capable student motivated him to overcome these challenges. This reflects the common experience of many first-generation college students who face unique obstacles as they navigate the unfamiliar terrain of higher education.

Transition to Graduate School

When Quion decided to pursue his graduate studies, he emphasized that it was a decision motivated by personal goals rather than external pressures. This shift in motivation demonstrates the evolution of his educational journey, transitioning from fulfilling the expectations of others to investing in himself and his future. The transition from undergraduate to graduate school requires a shift in mindset, and Quion's experience highlights the importance of recognizing one's personal aspirations and making decisions that align with individual goals.

Preparing for Success in Graduate School

Quion's journey reflects the significance of preparation and focus in achieving success in graduate school. He highlights the pivotal role of mentorship, academic advising, and building strong connections in facilitating academic growth and success. His dedication to academic improvement, demonstrated through earning higher grades and seeking out support systems, underscores the determination required to excel in graduate-level coursework. Furthermore, Quion's proactive approach in establishing study groups and utilizing available resources emphasizes the importance of resilience and perseverance in navigating the demands of graduate education.

Choosing the Right Graduate Program

In selecting a graduate program, Quion's decision to pursue public administration stemmed from his aspiration for leadership roles within his professional domain of law enforcement. His rationale for choosing a program aligned with his career aspirations exemplifies the significance of strategic decision-making in pursuing graduate education. Additionally, the influence of mentors and existing networks in his decision-making process emphasizes the value of seeking guidance and leveraging existing support systems when evaluating graduate program options.

Integration of Graduate Learning in Professional Practice

Quion's experience in graduate school not only equipped him with theoretical knowledge but also instilled strategic planning skills, which he has integrated into his professional journey. His ability to apply the principles of strategic planning to address challenges in law enforcement and education underscores the practical relevance of graduate education in shaping professional capabilities and problem-solving acumen. This exemplifies the transferability of graduate learning into real-world contexts, emphasizing the holistic impact of advanced education on professional development.

Advice for Prospective Graduate Students

Reflecting on his journey, Quion offers valuable advice for prospective graduate students. He emphasizes the significance of conducting thorough research to align educational pursuits with long-term career objectives. His encouragement for individuals to consider the practical applicability of their graduate degrees and to develop a comprehensive career plan underscores the importance of intentional decision-making and foresight in pursuing advanced education.

Conclusion

Quion Wheeler's journey from undergraduate to graduate school and into his professional career exemplifies the transformative impact of higher education for first-generation college students. His experiences underscore the value of resilience, strategic decision-making, and proactive preparation in transitioning to and succeeding in graduate education. Aspiring graduate students can draw inspiration from Quion's narrative, utilizing his insights to navigate their own journeys and strive for success in their pursuit of advanced education. TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]:Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]:Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host doctor Christopher Lewis, Director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back today. Every week, I love being able to talk to you, to sit down with you, to Walk through this journey that you're on as you're either thinking about graduate school, going through graduate school, looking at that light at the end of the tunnel as you're preparing to graduate from graduate school. You know, this show is all about helping you find success in that journey. And I love being able to walk with you on because I know that everybody's journey is just a little bit different, and it's important. It's important to talk about these issues, may help you to think about things that you might not have thought about before and also learn from other people because the best way that you can Prepare yourself is to talk to others that have gone before you. And every week, I am so happy to be able to bring you different guests that have done just that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:07]:This week, we've got another great guest. Keon Wheeler is with us today, and Keon is a detective and school resource officer with the Pontiac School District. And he did his undergraduate work at the University of Michigan Flint and then ended up going and getting a master's degree in public administration through the Rackham Graduate School at the University of Michigan, and we're gonna talk to him about his own experiences. Keon, thanks so much for being here today.

Quion Wheeler [00:01:36]:No problem. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:38]:It is my pleasure. I am really excited to be able to chat with you. And One of the first things that I love to do is be able to really turn things back in time. And I know that you did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan Flint, And at some point, while you were in that undergraduate degree, as you were graduating, as you're moving Into that 1st professional role, you made a decision. You made a decision that you wanted to continue your education. Talk to me about what was going through your head and what what were those reasons that made you choose that you wanted to continue and get that graduate degree?

Quion Wheeler [00:02:11]:So in all honesty, Starting my undergrad experience, I was a 1st generation college student. So, like, graduating high school, There was a lot of pressure in terms of, like, what the next step would be. I knew that if I applied myself, I knew that I would do well. But I knew, like, how important it was for my my parents to see me go to college. So in the beginning of my college experience. I struggle a lot, and I think I I would attribute a lot of those feelings to just not feeling confident enough. But once I figured out that I could perform just as well as the, the other students, I was able to kinda shift in a gear. So I told myself that my undergrad degree was for my parents because it was so important to them to see their children attend school and graduate.

Quion Wheeler [00:03:05]:So when I decided to go into my graduate studies, I honestly didn't have, like, a Professional plan because that time went by so fast. But I knew, and I had decided at that time, that I wanted to do something for myself, And that's how I I stumbled upon the horse riding graduate program, and I and I took up, public administration.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:28]:So you talk about the fact that your undergraduate degree was for your parents, that your graduate degree was for you, And that you, as a 1st generation college student, you kinda had to figure things out for yourself, and I'm sure that as you continued on, you continue to be a 1st generation college student, whether you're an undergraduate student or you're a graduate student and you're still trying to figure things out along the way. So talk to me a little bit about that transition, that transition that you had to go through as you were Looking at graduate school and trying to make sure that you're going to be prepared for that next step Because going from undergraduate to graduate work is definitely a little bit different. So what did you have to do to prepare yourself To get yourself in the right either mental space or or space in general that would allow for you to be able to be successful in that next step for your education.

Quion Wheeler [00:04:24]:So, obviously, my 1st 2 years of undergrad, I struggle Just for, like, focus and, you know, what class to take, I know I had to I ended up having to retake some classes. So by the time I got to my junior year From undergrad, I was pretty much laser focused. Like, I at that point, I I had a couple mentors. I have been well versed in, like, academic advising. I went to, like, my department at the time, which was, you know, criminal justice, and I was able to make some solid connections on what classes I need, what classes I didn't need. So from my junior year up until I graduated undergrad, I was really locked in. I mean, I was getting 3.4 is 5. I was passing all my classes with flying colors.

Quion Wheeler [00:05:09]:So when I decided to go to grad school, I knew that I had be, if not as focused, a little bit more focused, but I was already prepared because at that point, I was committed to doing well. So When I got accepted into the graduate program, I was admitted on a probationary status because my Akeem wasn't quite a 3 point o, so that just kinda lets you know, like, how much work I had to do to kinda build up from 1st to sophomore to junior year to get there, but my transcript shows so much development, and, obviously, I had some great recommendation letters. So when I was first admitted, they told me that I couldn't get lower than, like, a b plus in all of my classes. So that was, like, motivation. Because I was like, you know, I've done this. You know, I've done this in grad school. I've kinda I mean, in undergrad, I've been fine to us. So now it's just time to really Buckle down and and focus on what it is that that I wanna do, and and I never got below a 3 in grad school.

Quion Wheeler [00:06:17]:And I was really proud of that because, again, when I started college, I didn't have that that academic confidence. But then I have proved myself to be proficient in things that I wasn't quite proficient in undergrad, so that's really how I would be here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:31]:So you chose to go to the Rackham Graduate School for, you know, a public administration degree. Talk to me about that decision, and what made you decide that that's not only the right school for you, but the right program for you?

Quion Wheeler [00:06:47]:So I've always felt like a leader in the things that I've done academically or even in my extracurricular activity. So when I thought, like, Public administration, I saw, like, leadership grows. You know? So, obviously, going into law enforcement, I thought that a public administration degree would Go, Will, if I decided I wanted to become a director of security or chief of police or At one point, I was very interested in in juvenile probation, and I thought that having a public administration degree Along with law enforcement experience would allow me to kinda, like, catapult to some of those positions. So that was my original thinking, And I didn't want to get a criminal justice administration degree because I already had an undergrad. I just didn't really see the purpose of just getting 2 degrees in the same thing. So I decided to just go general program instead of picking, like, a, Like a specific concentration because I I just didn't wanna pigeonhole myself. So that's why I chose, like, public administration because I At the time and even still now, I see myself in in more of a a a leadership capacity, and that's why I chose department administration.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:05]:And was there a specific reason that you chose to go to the University of Michigan Rackham Graduate School for that program versus deciding to go to another program?

Quion Wheeler [00:08:16]:I was already well established on campus. I had some I had already developed a a really solid network, And I was comfortable. You know? I was working on campus with the educational opportunity initiatives. I was already doing the work, so It just felt like the right move. And I knew one of my mentors had actually graduated from the program, and so he gave me some good information or how how the program benefited him, and that's pretty much how I decided to go forward with him.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:46]:Now I mentioned the fact that When you go from undergraduate to graduate school, there is a difference. There's a difference in the way the the professors teach. There's a difference in the requirements and the expectations that faculty have on students themselves, and you have to prepare yourself A little bit differently for the classes that you're in and for the rigor of the program that you're in as well. What did you have to do to Set yourself up for success as you entered into the program, and what did you have to do to maintain that success as you went through the program and eventually got to to graduation.

Quion Wheeler [00:09:25]:Initially, I realized, like, in my 1st class, that I was, like, amongst one of the younger students in the classroom. Like, a lot of my classmates Had already been working in their professions for decades or more. So this was just more so, like, the degree to Push them into more managerial roles or whatever it was. So for me, I had to just kinda establish a group of of people that I can, you know, relate to. And so what I did was I was always friendly and easygoing, so I connected with students who were kinda focused on the same thing, some of the students who were maybe, like, 1, 2 years out of undergrad, and we We develop, like, study groups or focus groups for, like, certain classes, and I would dedicate most of my weekends, I would go to The Riverfront, they had a a new computer lab there, and I would spend maybe 4 to 5 hours, you know, every other Sunday, depending on what the workload is, and and it would be myself along with the study group. And we would just focus on whatever assignments that we had, just Kinda like compare strategies to make sure that we were meeting the criteria. I really just took time to really thoroughly understand the assignments. And if I had questions.

Quion Wheeler [00:10:40]:You know, obviously, I reached out to the professors and just to make sure that I was doing what was required. So I gave up a lot of time, and I knew that it would be tedious, but I was focused. So really just developing those study groups, Making relationships with people in my class. Just kinda getting out of my comfort zone, asking questions, not being afraid of not knowing the answer. Really kinda like knowing What you don't know because for a lot of us, even though we were in different positions in life given our age or professions, you know, we still were trying to obtain a degree. So I just try to stay on top of my assignments and and keep things there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:19]:Completely understand that. And sometimes having to Keep up on things, especially as it's being kind of dumped on you. It gets challenging, it gets stressful, and you have to manage that stress in different ways. Now you've continued your career. You've finished up that graduate degree, and you continued on. You're working for the Pontiac Schools right now. And as you look back at your graduate degree and you think about what you learned in that graduate degree, how do you feel that the graduate degree prepared you for the work that you have done since graduating.

Quion Wheeler [00:11:55]:One of my final assignments, Like, I came up with, like, a strategic plan for the job that I was working at during my time in in grad schools. So, obviously, like, the theme of that strategic plan was my ideology along with some statistics on how the program could run efficiently or run more efficiently. So I I've I've kinda always been in that mindset of, like, strategic planning, like, since I've left the University of Michigan Flint and navigating into law enforcement. Alright? So I've had An opportunity to work for the Flint police department where I worked there for 4 years, and there were a lot of challenges On a community level, on a department level. And so I will always find myself going back to that Strategic planning mindset of, like, if I were to become in a position to implement change, where would I begin? So one of the big focal points for me was, At that time, it was like manpower. Like, we really we really struggle with keeping officers in the city of Flint, And the turnover rate was super high because of the call volume and, obviously, just, like, the manpower shortage, so it was kinda like spinning your wheel all the time. And now I come out to where I work for the Oakland County Sheriff's Office now, and it's a large agency. And it's just way more opportunities.

Quion Wheeler [00:13:22]:It's way more people. But in my role as a school resource officer, Obviously, I can identify, like, the challenges, like, within the school system as it relates to kids and literacy and different things like that. So my mind naturally goes to, you know, how can I fix this? And that's kinda, like, One of the skills that I developed in grad school, like, due to that process is thinking of, you know, from a manager or a supervisory standpoint, strategic planning, just How do you work and and help people realize that we're all on the same team trying to reach the same goal? Like, it's just that's kinda like where my mindset has Staying since then.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:03]:Now you've given a number of piece of advice and a number of things that that you have learned in the journey that you went through yourself. As you look back at your graduate education, what are some tips that you might want to offer to others that are considering graduate school that'll help them find success sooner.

Quion Wheeler [00:14:22]:If you are pondering the idea of going to grad school, I would say be sure. You know? Like, actually take time to research programs. I didn't really do much research. Like, I I just knew that I wanted to go to horse rack. I'm, like, just considering The information that I received from several people before, and it just felt like the right fit. But if there was something that I could go back and do I probably would have taken more time as a young professional just to kinda figure out where I wanted to fit, like, Professionally overall. Because now I'm in I'm in this limbo. Right? So I've I've had my graduate degree since 2015, and I'm in a space where I'm like, Man, am I really using my degree? Because I'm in a unionized position, so it's not like I'm getting more pay for having a master's versus a person with, like, a high school diploma in this particular profession.

Quion Wheeler [00:15:13]:So I would encourage students to take more time to see how they can maximize On their degree, depending on, like, what career field they choose to get into. Now I I definitely think that having my MPA has made me More marketable because that's not a common trend for law enforcement officers to be well educated. So I think it works there, but really just taking that time to think about what it is that you wanna do and how it It's in 5 year plan, a 10 year plan. Like, that's not something that I really did. It was like, okay. I graduated undergrad. Like, what's next? Okay. I don't have a what's next, so let me go to school.

Quion Wheeler [00:15:54]:And I think sometimes people get caught up in that, and sometimes it works, and sometimes it don't. I don't regret it. Like, I'm I'm very thankful for my experience, and I'm very proud of myself for the things that I've accomplished today. But if I could just suggest Those few things, that's what I would suggest.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:11]:Well, Kean, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your story today. Thank you for your willingness To explore this with me and to share your experiences and things that you've learned along the way because I know it's going to help others in so many different ways, And I wish you all the best.

Quion Wheeler [00:16:26]:Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:27]:The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing here in education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit umflint.edu/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, Email me at [email protected].

Graduate school is a challenging yet rewarding journey that demands determination, resilience, and a passion for learning. In this blog post, we'll delve into the insightful conversation between Dr. Christopher Lewis and Dr. John Long, a senior lecturer in engineering at Deakin University in Australia. Dr. Long shares his remarkable journey through graduate school, offering valuable advice and insights for current and aspiring grad students.

The Decision to Pursue Graduate Education

Dr. Long's journey began with an unexpected opportunity that presented itself during his undergraduate years at the University of Michigan Flint. After spending time at Monash University in Melbourne as part of a physics study program, the idea of pursuing a PhD was planted in his mind. Despite initial uncertainties, Dr. Long seized the opportunity and embarked on a transformative journey that eventually led him to a successful career in academia.

Navigating the PhD Experience

Transitioning from a bachelor's degree to a PhD program comes with a set of unique challenges. Dr. Long candidly shares his experience of feeling unprepared and unqualified, highlighting the difficulties he faced during his PhD journey. He emphasizes the importance of persistence, stating that success in the program was more about perseverance than sheer brilliance. His insight into the realities of PhD life, particularly the "dark times," where challenges seemed insurmountable, provides a realistic perspective for current students facing similar struggles.

Setting Up for Success

One of the key takeaways from Dr. Long's journey is the significance of early preparation and goal-setting. He stresses the importance of working closely with supervisors to articulate a clear research question, reflecting on the time he spent hammering out his own question. His advice to get things going early aligns with the idea that a well-defined research question serves as a guiding light throughout the graduate journey.

Overcoming Hurdles and Maintaining Motivation

Dr. Long recounts the moments when he hit a "dark time" during his PhD, emphasizing the need for self-motivation and resilience. Engaging in rigorous research, constantly reading and learning from research papers, and receiving support from fellow students were instrumental in his journey. Additionally, personal motivations, such as not wanting to return without a PhD, and the support of friends and family, served as driving forces during challenging times.

The Importance of Graduation and Mentorship

After completing his PhD, Dr. Long initially contemplated not participating in the graduation ceremony. However, he emphasizes the significance of celebrating this significant achievement, underscoring the culmination of years of hard work. Furthermore, he shares a heartwarming anecdote about the cyclical nature of mentorship, recounting how his mentor, Dr. Trevor, inspired him and others while celebrating his own academic achievements.

Conclusion

Dr. Long's journey through graduate school serves as a testament to the resilience, dedication, and support systems that contribute to success in academia. His advice to current and future grad students emphasizes the importance of persistence, proactive goal-setting, and the celebration of milestones. Navigating the challenges of graduate education requires a combination of determination, ongoing support, and the willingness to seek guidance. Dr. Long's story exemplifies the transformative power of education and mentorship, inspiring others to navigate their own graduate journeys with tenacity and optimism. In conclusion, the conversation between Dr. Long and Dr. Lewis provides a wealth of insights and advice for anyone pursuing or considering graduate education. The challenges and triumphs shared by Dr. Long offer invaluable wisdom to those navigating the often-daunting landscape of higher education.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]:Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]:Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host doctor Christopher Lewis, Director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, I love being able to sit down and talk to you and work with you as you go through this journey that you're on. And I say journey intentionally because it is a journey. For some of you, it may be directly going from undergraduate to graduate work. Some of you may go to work first and then decide at some point that, you know what, I'm gonna Keep going with my education. And for others, it may be some a completely different type of journey.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:46]:And that's why it's so important that every week that I have this opportunity to talk to you because there's many ways in which you can end up in grad school. But when you're in grad school, you wanna find success. And that's why every week I love being able to bring you different guests, guests that have gone before you, that have done graduate work At many different universities in many different areas that can talk about what it took for them to find success in that journey for themselves. This week, we've got another great guest with us. John Long is with us. And John is a senior lecturer in engineering at Deakin University In Australia, in, in Geelong, in Victoria, Australia. So really excited to be able to have him here today, to have him share his own journey with you and to be a guest on the show. John, thanks so much for being here.

Dr. John Long [00:01:38]:Chris, thank you for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:40]:It is my pleasure. Love being able to have you here to Talk a little bit about your journey. I know you did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan Flint. And at some point in that journey, whether it be right in undergrad or after right After undergrad, you made a decision. You made a decision to continue your education at Monash University And worked on a doctorate degree. So let's turn the clock back. Talk to me about what was going through your head, and what made you decide that you wanted to go to get that graduate degree.

Dr. John Long [00:02:12]:Well, in a nutshell, it was simply an opportunity presented itself that I couldn't refuse. So part of the U of M Flint honors program, I spent a few months in 1986 at Monash University in Melbourne doing some work in X-ray. So that was part of a physics study program through the U of M Flint honors program, and I had tremendous time. A tremendous it was a tremendous experience for me and Clearly life changing. And after I completed the project and had graduated, so I graduated in 1987, basically, my academic supervisor Sir, in Melbourne, a fellow named Trevor Finlayson started dropping hints. So what if you, came back here and did a PhD with me? And at the time, I'd finished at U of M Flint. I was working full time at the AC spark plug engineering area over on, Davidson Road, I think it is. And I had really no intention of doing so, but Another has become a a lifetime colleague of mine sent me the PhD scholarship applications and said, here, fill these out and get them back to us quick.

Dr. John Long [00:03:09]:This would have been October of 1987. So having nothing to lose, I filled them out and sent them back. And, this is all snail Well, in those days, got a couple of referees or references, so I think doctor Larry King might have been one of them. He was a mathematics professor that I Worked with for a little while and a few others. So I sent the applications in, and my supervisor called me on the telephone in November and said, I have a scholarship here for you. Do you want it? And it was a a 3 year full PhD scholarship. And for an American coming out only with an undergraduate degree, this is unheard of. But in Australia, that was pretty common that you would have, a good student who completes a 4 year undergraduate degree with honors.

Dr. John Long [00:03:47]:In those days, it was common for them too if they were good. And if the supervisor was prepared to take them on, they could go straight to a PhD program, and I was PICT is one of those. So I went back to U of M Flint, and I talked to the various professors around the physics department, the mathematics department. I spoke to, my colleagues and bosses at AC Sparkplug, and they all said this opportunity is too good to turn down. Go. And finally, the day after Christmas, I asked my mother, and I asked her if I could go because she was recently widowed. We we lost my father that year, and so I asked my mother on the day after Christmas, Mom, I've got this scholarship opportunity. Here it is in my lap.

Dr. John Long [00:04:25]:What do I do with it? And she said, off you go. So that was the final tick of approval. So I packed up my life Roughly March of 1988 and shipped off to Australia for what was meant to be about 3 years, and it wound up being more like thirty 5 years, and I'm still here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:40]:Now you made that jump. You went ended up going to a foreign country, and you had been there before in that In a foreign country, to be able to be educated, but you transitioned into from a bachelor's degree to a PH which, again, very different in the way that you are taught, but also the expectations, the way that you are assessed. Lots of difference in regards to the complete outcome of the degree and what you're going to be expected to do. So you went through that experience, but you found success in that experience as well. You graduated, ended up finishing up. And as you Transitioned into that PhD, what did you have to do to set yourself up for success? But what did you have to also do to maintain that success Throughout the entire PhD experience.

Dr. John Long [00:05:32]:Before I left, I had a long chat with a couple of people. Professor So Larry King spent some time with me to say, well, this is what graduate school is really like, kid. And I spent a fair bit of time with one of the physics professors, doctor Mary Cox, also a A long time staff member, EFM Flint in my day, and she was my local supervisor for my 4th year honors project. She spent a fair bit of time. And among other things, she gave me a long list of books. I said, okay. If you're gonna be studying physics and material science at the graduate level, any of these, and we wrote them all down and I went and bought them all, and they're not part of my professional library. But anyhow, Those 2 in particular spend their time with me to sort of say, this is what you're up against.

Dr. John Long [00:06:09]:This is what you're up for, kid. And then, well, I got there, and how do I put it? I certainly wasn't prepared for it. I probably wasn't even qualified for it, to be quite honest. In hindsight, I probably would not have taken myself on, but I got there and found myself Really thrown in the deep end. I mean, I was thrown in the deep end, sink or swim kinda thing. And, boy, it was hard. It was extremely hard. It took me 6 years To complete the PhD, maybe by American standards, that's pretty normal, particularly somebody coming straight out from undergraduate.

Dr. John Long [00:06:39]:Bypassing master's completely, 6 years isn't bad. And in those days, your typical candidature for a PhD in at least in physics or the sciences was up to 10 years, And 6 years was relatively average. Your normal PhD scholarship in those days ran for 3 years Up to three and a half if you got an extension, so that's typical now too. So I should just go for 3, three and a half years. I can it took me 6 years To get through mine, it was pretty typical. Certainly, it wasn't the shortest of my colleagues who completed PhDs. I wasn't the longest either. I was kind of in the middle there somewhere.

Dr. John Long [00:07:15]:And I also had a number of colleagues who, quite frankly, were smarter than me, who did not complete the PhD. He stayed down for 10 years, This is a really good work, but simply couldn't write a thesis. And in the end, I know of at least a couple who, unfortunately, who were booted out of the program after 10 years and Multiple extensions because they simply couldn't write up, which is unfortunate. That that was sad because some of those guys helped me when I was early on. So in my case, The fact that I completed a PhD and it's pretty respectable PhD in Australia, Monash is certainly in the top 10 universities in Australia as Far as research funding and outputs and all that are concerned, my doing it, in my view, was more a matter of persistence than a brilliance. Put it that way. I just doggedly stuck to it and wouldn't quit even though I thought about it multiple times, and eventually, I figured it out. Interestingly enough, doctor Cox told me that in her experience, she said, once you figure out what you're doing, if you get into an experimental PhD, Which is what I did.

Dr. John Long [00:08:13]:The actual data collection will only take you about 6 weeks. 6, 8 weeks is what she told me. You'll collect all the data that winds up in your thesis In 6 to 8 weeks, even though that might be spread out over a number of years, and she was dead right. She was absolutely dead right. The actual data that wound up in my thesis That got me over the line with the examiners, was collected in about 6 weeks, and one whole chapter, which was photographic micrographs, One whole chapter was devoted to optical microscopy. I shot all those photos in 1 night, and that was my 3rd attempt. Took 3 goes to get it right. And eventually, I thought, right, this is what I have to do to get these photos correct.

Dr. John Long [00:08:51]:And it also meant collecting them all in one setting. So I did it in an overnight run so that I I would have the lab to myself, and I wouldn't have the door opening and closing all the time. Shaking the microscope when the door slammed. Yeah. I saw she was dead right. All the data that went into my thesis That was useful while I end up I clicked it in about 6 to 8 weeks.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:07]:So I know that now you work with graduate students at your university As you're teaching them, but also working with them on their own research, as you are working with young graduate students and they're They're walking in and and you're giving them advice. What's the advice that you're giving them in trying to help them to find success Early on and throughout their graduate school journey.

Dr. John Long [00:09:30]:Well, I certainly push them to get things going early. One of the most important things that in a PhD program anyways, Do you have to come up with early on the pace? I mean, once you do a a literature review and find out what everybody else have been doing on the particular topic at hand, you have to come up with your research Question. So one of my difficulties in my PhD was it took a long time to hammer out the research question. And once I did, I knew what I had to do, and I did it. Tell I tell graduate students to work out their research question as early on as possible if the student is lucky enough to be attached to a research grant. So sometimes professor will will will get a research grant, and a scholarship will come with it. In my view, those students are are the lucky ones Because a research grad comes with a research question. There's a research question that the that the that the researcher wants to wants to answer, And then, you know, the government or the funding body gives them the money to to do the work.

Dr. John Long [00:10:24]:So if you have that, I would tell the students, well, first of all, Get your hands on the grant application that your supervisor wrote to get the money that pays your scholarship and read it and find out what's in the head of your supervisor. And that'll make life a 1000000000 times easier to work out what the research question is. If you're given now what I was, like, a generic scholarship so I I had a generic Scholarships. So I had to think of my own research question after being given kind of a vague topic by my supervisor. That was harder. But then you have to spend a lot of time with your supervisor to Really hammer out what is the research question. Once you've got the research question worked out, then you've got focus and you have a direction. Another thing I've noticed with with most PhD students, The research goes up and down, and a lot of students nowadays in engineering, the research would accompany would would be accompanied by a great deal of Theoretical modeling, and there are some brilliant modeling tools out there, computer modeling tools that they're used in science and engineering.

Dr. John Long [00:11:21]:And so a lot of PhD research these days begins with computer modeling. It often produces publications pretty quickly, and that's great. Then the student will go and try to replicate the modeling with experimentation. Experimentation is a totally different beast. Experimentation is things that don't work. It's the real world. And so I have to spend a bit of time preparing the student for life in the lab where, again, you might have to do an experiment 3 times before you get it right, Well, you might have to do a chemical preparation 3 or 4 times until you get the purity correct, and it actually replicates what other people have published. That sort of thing can be very discouraging to a student.

Dr. John Long [00:12:00]:Writing up can also be very discouraging to a student if he doesn't have writing skills. It can be very difficult. So in any PhD program, or at least most of them, the student comes into what I call the dark times, Where it's kinda like a long dark tunnel and things aren't going well. I had that for a good 3 years. I had this long dark tunnel where I had one failed experiment after another, and I was Terribly discouraged, but something basically happened about halfway through that I got a a vote of approval from the department head. And then I decided, well, if the Department head believes in me, then I better believe in myself. So I'll keep on going until I finish this thing. I'm thrown out, but I won't quit.

Dr. John Long [00:12:35]:I talk to PhD students, particularly the ones who are finding things difficult either in the lab or relationships with supervisors or other staff members or whatever, Lots of reasons. I tell them that story, and I know that it certainly has helped at least a couple of, a couple of students that I've worked with over the years who now have PhDs. So I simply say, look. You make a decision. I'm either gonna finish this thing, whatever it takes, or I'll be thrown out, but I certainly won't quit. That was one of my bigger decisions that I made About halfway through my time as a PhD student. Once I figured out the research questions and hammered all them out and finally got the my supervisor to say, yep. If you answer these questions, you'll have a PhD.

Dr. John Long [00:13:13]:I submitted about 2 years later. So once I had direction and knew what I had to do, Then I got the job done.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:19]:And there will be dark times. I agree with you. I mean, no matter if you're in a PhD program or working on a thesis For the masters, there's always gonna be that proverbial wall that you'll hit that you need to kind of stick to it, like you said earlier, and Be willing to know that you're just gonna have to overcome those hurdles. And what did you have to do when you hit that dark time that that, you know, hit that wall per se to be able to push past it, to be able to get over it, to be able to push yourself to the finish line.

Dr. John Long [00:13:53]:Well, I still didn't really wanna come home to the United States without a PhD. Put it that way. You know? In other words, sort of coming home a disgrace. You didn't wanna do that. I had a girlfriend at that stage, and we ended up getting married, And that was a motivating factor. The dark time were before that, I just doggedly stuck to the task at hand. That's all I can really say about That I just dragged myself into into my lab every day and just kept that. I went through research paper after research paper after research paper, And it took a few years to learn how to read a research paper.

Dr. John Long [00:14:22]:The 1st research papers I read, well, you have to read them 5 times before you figure out what they're on about. But again, doing it over and over and over and over and over again. Eventually, I figured out how to read them. And, of course, by the time I submitted my thesis, I could read a research paper in my field. In one read, I knew what the guys were doing and why. That was great, but that was a skill that I had to learn. I guess I also had the support of my fellow students because we all had similar kinds of journeys. Some people finished a lot faster than me.

Dr. John Long [00:14:49]:Some people didn't finish at all.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:51]:Well, John, I just wanna say thank you for sharing that. It it's definitely important for people to understand that any of graduate school is not Always going to be easy. There's going to be challenges. There's going to be things you're going to have to overcome. It could be a class. It could be research. It could be lots of different things. Life gets in the way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:09]:There's lots of things that happen that you have to be able to balance and be able to, as John said, overcome To be able to get to that prize at the end, that diploma that you hold. Yeah. You know, if you're working on the PhD, the hood that you get given and get hooded at the end. The piece of paper, you know, of the research, you know, when you get to the end and you have that research done, and then you can share that.

Dr. John Long [00:15:34]:When I submitted and passed, I think I was probably pretty typical. I was tired. I was a bit angry, exhausted by the whole thing. And I remember saying at the time when I submitted, I'm not going through graduation. And I think it's a good thing that the examination of a thesis takes 6 months because it gives you time to to to to cool off a little bit. So I submitted in April of 1994, And my examiner reports came back in September and took about a month to do the changes. And by the end of November, I had the Stamped from the university PhD committee, yes, she passed. We didn't have an oral examination in those days.

Dr. John Long [00:16:11]:They do now, but it was strictly written thesis At Monash in those days because very often, at least 1 examiner was overseas. So I had 1 examiner in Germany, so he couldn't come in person to do an oral examination. Anyhow, graduation was, I think, Following April. And so Monash University contacted me early in 1995. Here, fill out this form for graduation. I went, Okay. I'll go. Very much glad I did.

Dr. John Long [00:16:34]:And what I tell PhD students now when they submit, I tell them you will go to graduation. You will walk across that stage, and you will wear, we call it, the floppy hat. It's about being hooded, so you will wear the floppy hat. This is important for you. It's important for your family, and this is the the conclusion of 4 to 6 years of extremely hard work. We've got to celebrate this. And I had a PhD student a couple of years ago. When he he graduated and finished during COVID, the university suspended graduation ceremonies for a couple About 3 years.

Dr. John Long [00:17:04]:And so he didn't have a graduation ceremony per se. We had this thing called grads on the green. So we we, we went in an outside venue, put up tents, and celebrated graduation that way, and diplomas were sent out by post. But at least we got together outside on a COVID safe setting, and we could at least, you know, take photos and and and celebrate with our with our students. And I remembered that particular Student, I tried to lay his graduation. I said, just wait till the next ceremony so we can do it properly. And he waited as long as Couldn't and no. He couldn't couldn't wait any longer.

Dr. John Long [00:17:39]:So we had a grads on the green with him as well. But to me, it's very, very important to go through that graduation ceremony. Now I'll tell you something else. My supervisor, who is getting on years now, but he's still in the game. He retired from Monash a long time ago. Now he's at Melbourne University Still doing physics and material science. He's kinda become an inspiration to me to keep going myself. He sat on stage for me when I graduated.

Dr. John Long [00:18:01]:And then fast forward 20 years or so, I sit on stage for him, and that to me was a very special experience. So he got sick. He wound up in hospital for a while. And while he was in hospital, he wrote a dissertation. And we think, yeah. That's Trevor. He wrote a a DSC thesis. He wrote a doctor of science thesis, which was the culmination of his research work over probably 30 odd years, which included the work of his PhD students, which included me.

Dr. John Long [00:18:28]:He put it all together, and it was a big thick tome, complete it with all research papers that he got over the years, Submitted it to to Melbourne University for a DSC. He passed, and he graduated. And he rounded up the PhD students that he could which included me, and we went to a graduation ceremony in Melbourne from Melbourne University, and we sat on stage for him. That to me was is a very special experience for I'm glad that we did it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:51]:I really appreciate you sharing that. It kinda shows the cyclical nature of mentoring relationships and and how Important those are as well. John, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey today, for being with us today, and I wish you all the best.

Dr. John Long [00:19:07]:Thank you for having me. The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or Online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit umflint.edu/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, Email me at [email protected].

Embarking on the journey of graduate school is a significant milestone filled with challenges and opportunities for growth. In this week's Victors in Grad School podcast we talk with Michael Weber, a retired General Motors global systems engineer, shared his insights and experiences about his transition from the workforce to graduate school. In this blog post, we will delve into Michael's journey, his decision to pursue a Master's degree in Business Administration (MBA) at the University of Michigan-Flint, his experiences balancing work, family, and education, and the valuable lessons he learned along the way. Here are key insights and tips for navigating the dynamic landscape of graduate education, based on Michael Weber's enriching conversation with Dr. Christopher Lewis.

Deciding to Pursue Graduate Education

Michael expressed three compelling reasons for his decision to pursue a master's degree. He viewed it as a means to advance his career, gain knowledge about business, and uphold his belief in lifelong learning. This underscores the importance of aligning personal and professional goals with the decision to pursue graduate education. Aspirants should introspect, identify their motivations, and consider the potential impact of advanced education on their careers and personal development.

Choosing the Right Degree Program

Michael's transition from an undergraduate degree in engineering to an MBA sheds light on the significance of selecting a degree aligned with one's interests and career aspirations. His decision was influenced by a genuine interest in business, a background in leadership, and a recognition of potential opportunities outside the field of engineering. Prospective graduate students can leverage this insight by critically evaluating their passions, analyzing industry trends, and assessing the potential value of different degree programs in relation to their career trajectories.

Selecting the Right Graduate Program

Michael's decision to pursue his MBA at the University of Michigan Flint was influenced by various factors, including proximity, program structure, and personal recommendations. This highlights the importance of considering logistical factors, alumni experiences, and program offerings when choosing a graduate school. Prospective students should carefully assess a program's curriculum, faculty expertise, networking opportunities, and potential for practical applications in their desired career paths.

Balancing Work, Family, and Education

A significant aspect of Michael's journey was the challenge of balancing work responsibilities, family commitments, and academic pursuits. His pragmatic approach involved effective time management, open communication with his family, and seeking support from his employer. This emphasizes the need for aspiring graduate students to develop robust time management skills, establish a strong support system, and communicate transparently with their employers and families as they navigate the demands of graduate education.

Adapting to a Different Learning Environment

As Michael transitioned from a science-based curriculum to a business-focused program, he encountered a shift in learning methods, faculty expectations, and academic outcomes. His experience underscores the importance of adaptability, open-mindedness, and the willingness to embrace diverse learning approaches when stepping into a new academic domain. Prospective graduate students should prepare for an adaptive learning experience, assimilate interdisciplinary knowledge, and be receptive to new methods of inquiry and analysis.

The Impact of Graduate Education on Career Growth

Following the completion of his MBA, Michael observed significant personal and professional growth. His enhanced confidence, refined leadership skills, and expanded network paved the way for career progression within General Motors. This exemplifies the potential positive impact of graduate education on career advancement, skill diversification, and professional recognition. Aspirants should recognize the long-term value of graduate education in cultivating a robust skill set, expanding career opportunities, and fostering continuous personal development.

Advice for Prospective Graduate Students

Drawing from his experience, Michael offers crucial advice for individuals considering graduate education. He emphasizes the need for a clear understanding of personal goals, meticulous planning, and assessing the potential return on investment. Aspirants are encouraged to conduct thorough self-assessment, evaluate the feasibility of pursuing a graduate degree, and develop a well-defined plan that aligns with their career aspirations and personal growth objectives. Michael's emphasis on goal clarity and strategic planning serves as a valuable compass for those navigating the complexities of graduate education.

Michael Weber's journey from a seasoned engineer to a successful graduate student and, subsequently a distinguished global systems engineer at General Motors offers a wealth of insights and guidance for prospective graduate students. His experiences underscore the importance of aligning personal aspirations with educational pursuits, adapting to new learning environments, and leveraging graduate education as a catalyst for career growth and personal development. As individuals embark on the transformative journey of graduate education, they can draw inspiration from Michael's story, integrate his advice into their decision-making process, and navigate their unique paths with clarity, resilience, and purpose.

This podcast is brought to you by The Office of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan-Flint. If you're still wondering about other things to consider when it comes to graduate school, you can also contact the Office of Graduate Programs at UM-Flint. We're here to answer questions Monday – Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. EST. You can also find out more about the 50+ programs that the university has to offer here.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]:

Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]:

Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host doctor Christopher Lewis, Director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, I love sitting down with you, being able to talk to you about The journey that you're on the journey that you're on to moving toward graduate school, moving through graduate school, moving beyond graduate school. I know that you may be in a a spot right now where you're just thinking about grad school or you could be in grad Or you could be thinking about that light at the end of the tunnel and you're almost done and ready to head off into the workforce. No matter where you are, It's so important that you find success in that journey, and that's what this podcast is all about. This podcast is all about helping you to find success in the journey that you're on. I love being able to sit down with you and being able to introduce you to people that have gone before you, that have had the opportunity to go to graduate school, have found success in that journey themselves, and they are able to share that experience with you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:17]:

Today, we've got another great guest with us. Michael Weber is with us today, and Michael is a he's a retired General Motors global systems engineer when he retired from General Motors after 45 years. And in his journey with which we're going to learn more about, he did go through his bachelor's degree at the University of Michigan and then went beyond that To get a master's degree from the University of Michigan Flint. So we're gonna talk about that journey as well. Really excited to have him here. Michael, thanks so much for being here today.

Michael Weber [00:01:51]:

My pleasure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:51]:

It is my pleasure having you here today. Love being able to hear more about your own experience. And One of the things that I love to do, 1st and foremost, is turn the clock back in time because I know that you did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan. And then after After going to the University of Michigan and getting that bachelor's degree in engineering, you ended up going and you Went out into the workforce, got some experience, and then after a few years, you decided, you know what? It's time. It's Time to come back to graduate school. Talk to me about what was going through your head as you were thinking about going back to school and why you decided to make that jump Into going to graduate school for yourself.

Michael Weber [00:02:34]:

Chris, thanks very much. There were probably 3 main reasons that I thought of, Why I need to go back to graduate school? My first one, I felt that earning a master's degree would actually help advance me within my career. And I had a particular interest in learning more about business and how I could be a more effective, a more Appropriate leader, if you will. And I also believe in light learning, which is something that, even after all these years, I continue to still practice today. So three reasons for going back to graduate school, and I'm happy to talk about that journey.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:10]:

So one of the things that I would love to hear more about is the fact that you made a choice to go from your bachelor's in engineering. And then as you said, you decided you wanted to go and get MBA, a master's of business administration. You could have gone and kept going with engineering. You could have got a MSC. You could have gotten some other degree in engineering that Would have allowed you to be able to continue down the path of honing your skills in engineering, but you as you said, you You decided to get that MBA. Talk to me about the decision to get the MBA versus another type of a degree, and what made you what were some of the linchpins that made you decide that that was the right degree for you.

Michael Weber [00:03:52]:

Well, as I mentioned, I have a, an interest in business. And there were the choices that I could have made coming out of Undergraduate staying in an engineering degree for graduate school. I think probably one of my main reasons who are not continuing with the engineering degree was that I had the foundation that I needed to ensure that I was gonna be successful in what I anticipated would be going forward in the initial years of my career. But Because I felt that I had some leadership basic skills, if you will, and that I could see myself in in a management role. And my father owned a business, so I grew up in kind of a business environment. And as I began to think about what does Mike Weber wanna do Going forward with his life, I could see that the combination of my engineering degree as an undergraduate with, balance with an MBA, if you will, Learning the business aspects, how the company ran, you know, what were all the mechanisms that kept those trains on the track. I could see that I had opportunity to be able to offer things in an area beyond just engineering. And combining those 2 together, I could see a successful future for myself.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:10]:

Now I mentioned that you got your undergraduate degree at the University of Michigan and you got your Master's degree at the University of Michigan Flint. I'm sure that you had many opportunities to be able to go to many different Schools you could have chosen to go to a lot of different universities to get that masters of business administration. What was it about the University of Michigan Flint that made

Michael Weber [00:05:33]:

you decide that that was the right program for you. 1st of all, the school is local for me. It's it's within a 10 mile drive from home, So a lot of convenience from that perspective. And as you mentioned, I attended the, University of Michigan with my undergraduate degree in Ann Arbor, So I had, obviously, a previous connection with the University of Michigan. This particular program offered a nighttime degree that was only 2 days a week, and it was gonna cover 3 years, and then I was gonna be complete. I had a, a colleague at work that was already enrolled in this particular program. It was a new MBA program back in the early 19 eighties, at the University of Michigan Flint. And she spoke extremely highly of, this program that was being offered.

Michael Weber [00:06:19]:

And after talking with her and putting all those pieces together, I decided that was where I was gonna start.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:24]:

Now you mentioned that the Agree for you as a nighttime program 2 nights a week. And when you have to make that transition, you took a few years off Going from your bachelor's to your master's, you took some years off to work and get some experience. Talk to me about that transition For yourself of being able to balance now working and going to school and family life and other things, How did you balance all of that for yourself to be able to be successful in that journey for yourself?

Michael Weber [00:06:57]:

Chris, that's probably an extremely important question, and and I'm glad that I got a chance here to share that with you. So Here was my approach in thinking about that. 1st, again, you mentioned, roughly that I was 4 years into my career. So I first needed to make certain that I could still ensure that this was a priority with what I wanna be doing as a requirement of my job. Plus, as I said, 4 years out of undergraduate, I was out of that school routine. Secondly, I already had a toddler at home, And we were planning to add to the family while I was going to school, so I needed to ensure that I could manage that time that was necessary to put into the effort. 3rd, since we owned a home, there are necessary chores as any homeowner has to complete on a regular basis. And then finally, I was gonna be away twice a week that my son said time hour.

Michael Weber [00:07:49]:

So I needed to carve out time to be able to do my studies while I was home and, obviously, being away. So all of this was a balancing act, and it required understanding first with my wife, obviously, as well with my boss at work, and then just applying some solid time management to keep each of these requirements in check. Now fortunately, I have a very understanding wife. My son was very young at the time who conveniently went to bed early on the Nonschool nights, and I took naps on weekend afternoons, which is where I focused my reading and homework that needed to be accomplished. I also had a very understanding boss who supported my postgraduate efforts. And as long as I was meeting his expectations and completing all that I needed to Be asked of doing at work, then I was at least in check and okay with that. Now getting back into the study, the homework, Test preparation was probably the hardest, and there's no doubt about it. So couple other things here that I'll mention.

Michael Weber [00:08:48]:

With 6 semesters, There were 2, each for the 3 years. The 1st semester was by far the most challenged, and getting back into the school routine and adjusting my Regular life routine around school now and balancing everything else, you know, was the initial challenge. Fortunately, in the classroom, we were divided into teams of 6 students. And since we were all similar in age with similar goals and other responsibilities in life, it gave us the opportunity to easily compare notes and work with each and support each other at the same time. We also use these groups as study groups, continually checking with each other For understanding of the class material, clarification of assignments, generally helping each other to succeed overall. And I'll also note that once the 1st semester, fortunately, was completed, the rest of the 5 went much easier as I developed a pretty good routine. I had gained confidence in myself, began doing work in doing well in the program, and I was enjoying both the class material as well as my classmates. And then finally, we also had some social events.

Michael Weber [00:09:53]:

Some were coorganized by the school and others were on our own. So the camaraderie that we have developed was extremely important and obviously very helpful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:01]:

Mentioned that the 1st term was the hardest. And As you transitioned from not only being in a bachelor's degree at the University of Michigan Ann Arbor To working to now being in a graduate program in a very diff different discipline, what was the hardest part In getting your mind around studying in a different way, learning in a different way that you had to grapple with, that you had to under that you had to do to be able to find success in that graduate degree itself.

Michael Weber [00:10:42]:

I think the biggest transition in making the success rate For a graduate program for me had to be time management initially. Certainly, time management between work life balance Was already a bit of a routine. 4 years out of school, we had gotten married. Life was easy and fun at the beginning. Getting a child then along the way Offered a a new dimension of time management, but now adding that other dimension of going back to graduate school on balancing everything else that I already been balancing was by far the most challenging. And how to do that? I think that I've been blessed in my life with reasonably good time management skills. The complexity of work was increasing. And so with along with that, there were actually some, Side programs that I remember General Motors offering and helping us all work with time management in general And then having a a basic skill set of that, but it was still the overall adjustment of the intense studying, the complexity of, You know, moving away from engineering to a degree and learning accounting and and learning all these other business kinds of things was all very new.

Michael Weber [00:11:55]:

And and so there had to be a a strong focus on that first, almost to the point that you're putting some of the others, what other responsibilities subservient, but you had them still manage them all in check. You'd probably afford to to lessen up on some of those others So that you could really focus on being successful in that adjustment to the graduate program.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:17]:

Now one of the things that I would love to hear from you because You made the choice to go from a very science based curriculum to a, I'm gonna say, a nonscience based Curriculum when you went from undergrad to grad. And so the way that you are taught, the way that your faculty educate you is going to be very different. The outcomes are going to be different. The expectations are going to be different. And I know you said that you had an interest in leadership, Which drew you to the MBA? Did you find that there was any other types of things that you had to do differently In the way that you thought, processed, approached the education at the graduate level because it was In such a different area?

Michael Weber [00:13:04]:

Yeah. There was some difference. But because I had that strong interest in the business aspect And I had other aspects of leadership. I I grew up in the boy scouting environment. I was a patrol leader, and I did other leadership things there. When I was in college in my undergraduate work, I was a leader on campus. I was very involved in a variety of activities And recognized as such for those leadership activities, it was more of an evolution as I was moving along through the business program That I was learning other techniques. I was testing myself against things that I had done at a younger age, against some of the new opportunities that I was being taught, And then, of course, comparing notes with other colleagues that were equally experienced in some cases as I was.

Michael Weber [00:13:51]:

And so it was a further learning experience, But at the same time, a bit of a validation along the way at the same time.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:58]:

Now you completed your degree. You went back into the workforce. As you enter that workforce again after you had completed your MBA, talk to me about how that degree helped to prepare you for the work that you were doing on a day to day basis.

Michael Weber [00:14:15]:

I grew quite a bit during those postgraduate years. I gained in confidence. I was a better speaker in front of a group. Naturally, I was continuing to learn different aspects of leadership and improving in that area, and And I was a better thinker and decision maker along the way. I developed future contacts and friendships that proved useful in my career down the road. And quite frankly, I was proud of myself for completing the program in spite of the challenges that are presented. Challenges such things as learning complex subject matter, competing again in a classroom environment, needing to do well on tests, balancing the home life, particularly since our 2nd child was born Midway through the program and the grind of essentially doing 2 or you might even say 3 jobs at the same time in between homework and the graduate work. But the degree also accomplished some of the goals that I set for why I wanted to complete the degree in the 1st place.

Michael Weber [00:15:09]:

2 years following my degree, I moved into management. I was given gradually increasingly challenging work assignments. I eventually retired as a global engineering program manager, which you mentioned at the top of the broadcast here. And it was for all General Motors midsized vehicles across the globe within the body structures group, and that included significant travel and frequent exposure to top company leadership. So I credit my degree for helping me reach that level of responsibility within the company, and I enjoyed, my entire career that remained after completing my degree.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:46]:

I know that the degree that you got was a number of years back. But as you look back At your graduate education and you think about people that are thinking about graduate school right now, whether it be an MBA, A degree in engineering, whatever it may be. What are some tips that you might offer to Individuals that are thinking about graduate education that could help them to find success sooner.

Michael Weber [00:16:13]:

Chris, another great question, and I hope that My response will help others in their decision making with respect to beginning a graduate degree. I first highly recommend knowing your goals and clearly understanding why completing this degree is important to the person. That can be for several reasons, and they don't have to be of anything that I've already described. Perhaps it's to further the work that was done in an undergraduate degree. Maybe it's Requirement of either the current job that one is involved with or requirement for the next job, whatever that might be. It may just be because of the thirst of Further knowledge learning, but be sure that the person knows why they are seeking the advanced degree because it will take sacrifice, Money and time, but if the reward equals or is greater than the efforts, then it's worth pursuing. And other things to consider as well, And these may be obvious, but I'll note them so that they're not of a love. Do you have the time? And consider all aspects of what's involved with that.

Michael Weber [00:17:15]:

Class time, travel, study, time perhaps impacts to work as well as to family and your friends. Can you afford the cost Either now or in the future. And do you have a significant other that needs to be consulted? Graduate school is a big commitment. Competition will be higher than what it was in undergraduate, And you wanna make sure that there will be a return on your investment. In other words, will you confidently be able to reach your goals Following completing that degree program, and as I noted, I found experience worthwhile and rewarding in many ways. It's not an easy decision. And let me add this piece of advice that comes in the form of an old saying that I was continually reminded of by a chief engineer that I worked for many years. A goal without a plan is only a dream.

Michael Weber [00:18:03]:

So be sure you know why you were going after the advanced degree. And if you do And the goal is strong enough, you'll very likely achieve that goal with a great deal of success.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:13]:

Sage wisdom, and I really appreciate you sharing that and sharing everything that shared today, Michael. If people wanna find out more about you, is there a place they could go to find out more?

Michael Weber [00:18:22]:

Yeah. I I'll be open, and and I'll give you my email address. It is based on my name. So m, middle initial f, w e b e r. That's m f Weber with the numbers one one [email protected].

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:38]:

Really appreciate that, Michael, and I'll put a link in the notes today for you to be able to reach out to Michael if you've got Questions or wanna reach out and ask him more about his own experience. Michael, thank you so much for being here, and I wish you all the best.

Michael Weber [00:18:50]:

Chris, it was my pleasure, and I wish everyone listening to this Podcast success as well. Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:55]:

The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit umflute.eduforward/graduateprograms To find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, Email me at [email protected].

The road to success in graduate school is paved with unique challenges and triumphs, especially for those pursuing their aspirations in a foreign country. In this week's Victors in Grad School podcast, Imrul Shuva, a graduate student in Computer Science and Information Systems at the University of Michigan Flint, shared his insightful journey through graduate school, shedding light on the experiences, challenges, and strategies that have helped him navigate the complexities of pursuing a master's degree.

Choosing Graduate School for Research Opportunities

Imrul's journey began with a passion for research. He highlighted that his interest in continuing to graduate school stemmed from a desire for more research opportunities. His undergraduate experience in thesis work kindled a passion for in-depth research, prompting him to seek advanced opportunities for academic exploration and growth. Imrul's journey emphasizes the vital role of passion and interest in choosing to pursue further education.

Selecting the Right Institution

Imrul's decision to attend the University of Michigan Flint was influenced by various factors, including the presence of research opportunities, a welcoming community, and the potential to bring his family with him. His decision process exposes the importance of considering multiple aspects such as community support, academic resources, and personal circumstances when choosing the right institution for one's academic pursuits.

Transitioning to a New Environment

Moving to a foreign country presents unique challenges, especially when considering cultural, environmental, and educational differences. Imrul's experience of acclimating to the climate and lifestyle in Michigan underscores the resilience and adaptability required for success in a new academic and personal environment. His experiences serve to reassure prospective international students that perseverance in the face of unfamiliarity is an essential aspect of their journey.

Balancing Academics and Fatherhood

Imrul's journey took an extraordinary turn as he welcomed his first child while navigating the demands of graduate school in a foreign land. His honest account of the initial challenges and eventual adaptation to juggling fatherhood with academic responsibilities sheds light on the resilience and determination required to navigate the dual roles of a student and a parent. Imrul's story conveys an inspiring message to aspiring students, affirming that dedication and adaptability can lead to success despite challenges.

Navigating the Transition to Graduate Research

Imrul highlighted the significant difference in the support and resources available for research at the graduate level compared to his undergraduate experience. His account emphasized the indispensable support of professors and the abundant resources at the University of Michigan Flint. His narrative underscores the value of mentorship and academic resources in empowering students to excel in their research pursuits.

Success in Graduate Classes

Transitioning from undergraduate to graduate-level classes necessitates a shift towards greater independence and self-motivation. Imrul's emphasis on the independent nature of graduate study and the importance of self-discipline and accountability aligns with the essential skills required for success in advanced academic pursuits. His journey reinforces the significance of proactivity and self-reliance in achieving success in graduate classes.

Future Aspirations and Advice for Prospective Grad Students

Looking towards the future, Imrul's aspirations for a career in academia and qualitative research reflect the profound impact of his graduate journey on his professional goals. His advice to prospective graduate students resonates with the importance of proactive planning, timely communication, and the pursuit of one's academic and professional passions.

Imrul Shuva's journey through graduate school at the University of Michigan-Flint serves as an exemplary testament to the resilience, adaptability, and determination required to navigate the complexities of pursuing an advanced degree, especially in a foreign country. His experiences illustrate the transformative power of passion, support, and dedication in the pursuit of academic and personal goals. Imrul's story inspires students to embrace challenges and seize opportunities, reaffirming that success in graduate school is a journey marked by dedication, growth, and extraordinary achievements.

This podcast is brought to you by The Office of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan-Flint. If you're still wondering about other things to consider when it comes to graduate school, you can also contact the Office of Graduate Programs at UM-Flint. We're here to answer questions Monday – Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. EST. You can also find out more about the 50+ programs that the university has to offer here.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]:

Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]:

Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host doctor Christopher Lewis, Director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, We have an opportunity to be able to sit down, to work together, to work through this journey that you're on of going Either through grad school, getting ready for grad school, preparing in some way, or looking back at the experience that you had. You might be listening and trying to hear about some of the other people's experiences and see if they're the same as yours. There's so many different people That there's so many different ways in which we all go through our graduate school experience, and it's important to be able to understand what it takes to be able to be successful in that graduate school journey, and that's what and that's what this show is all about. Every week, I love being able to bring you different guests, people that are having different experiences, that Had different experiences that have had to do different things to prepare themselves well to to go into graduate school, but then What but then also had to pivot or do different things to be able to continue to find success in that journey along the way. This week, we've got another great guest with us.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:32]:

Imrul Shuva is with us today, and Imrul is a graduate student at the University of Michigan, Flint. He is studying computer science and information systems at The University of Michigan Flint, and he is actively getting ready. He sees that light at the end of the tunnel as he's preparing for graduation here in the the next year, and I know that he's gone through a lot to be able to get through the program and to do what he's had to do, and I'm looking forward to sharing his experience and having him share his journey with you. Imrul, thanks so much for joining us today.

Imrul Shuva [00:02:07]:

Thank you so much, Chris, for having me here. I'm privileged to be here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:11]:

Well, I really appreciate you being here today. And first and foremost, I guess, what I would love to do is turn the clock back in time because at some point, it might have been during your Bachelor's degree or your time at your previous institution where you were thinking to yourself, I think I might wanna continue. I want to continue to go to graduate school to get a degree. What were the reasons that you chose that you wanted to go to graduate school?

Imrul Shuva [00:02:37]:

Well, I was more interested in research. When I got admitted to my undergrad program, I was involved in a thesis that was a mandatory part of the undergrad. And at the last semester, we had a thesis. But before that, you know, I was looking for research opportunities. And the school I was In I mean, there were some research opportunities there, but most of them, you would have to do individually with a professor, and they were more involved doing the course works and people who are finding jobs, but I thought then if I could get admitted to a grad program, then maybe I will have more research There's opportunities. And the paper I wrote, I didn't have a chance to complete it. I mean, the standard I set for that. So I really wanted to have that published, but it didn't happen finally for the undergrad course.

Imrul Shuva [00:03:31]:

So, you know, I was looking for more research opportunities, and I thought, You know, going to a grad school, I would be able to achieve that. So that that was the primary goal to come to a grad school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:42]:

Now as you were looking at opportunities For graduate school, you could have stayed near home and done your work there. You chose to Eventually attend the University of Michigan Flint, but there are many options, many different degrees many different degrees, many different institutions. What was it about the University of Michigan Flint that drew you that drew you in and made you decide that that was the right school for you?

Imrul Shuva [00:04:08]:

Okay. So it's Honestly, you know, it's interesting that finally I came here, but the plan was not like that at first point. So I was planning to I mean, in US, so I didn't have a funding. I applied to a couple of universities. I initially, I didn't plan to come to Europe. I was planning to go somewhere else in Europe and applied to a couple of universities there. And then, you know, got admission, got the visa as well. And then I attended a seminar that run by US Embassy Bangladesh.

Imrul Shuva [00:04:41]:

It's called EducationUSA. I'm from Bangladesh. So there, I went there, and then after I think the doing the seminar, I thought maybe I could try a couple of universities in the US, and then I would Decide later. And then I got admitted to UN Flint, and then I got married at that time. And So in US, you know, bringing your family while you are starting a a little easier than Europe. I mean, the country I was planning, I couldn't take my wife with me. So that was the initial A reason I came here I mean, I chose this university. And then after I came, I never, you know, re regret it.

Imrul Shuva [00:05:25]:

I always felt great, you know, with the community, with the professors, staffs, and with everyone. I have had a very good time here so far, and I'm enjoying my time here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:35]:

Now you talked about bringing your family with you. You uprooted your family, brought them to a new country, a brand new area, Which are very different than than home. Talk to me about that transition for you and what you had to do, not only for yourself to transition, But also to transition your wife to the area as well.

Imrul Shuva [00:05:56]:

So after I go ahead, Mitel and planned for AUM Flint. So then I did research on the school a little bit before finally I finally planned to come. I got some research. You know? I went Through those careers dot umich site, and I have viewed some professors' labs website and their profiles. I went to Google Scholar, and I have seen what are the fields they're working on. And then, you know, it felt that I would really have a good opportunity in terms of research and in terms of computer science research, then I choose this university. And then after I came here so I started in fall 21, and then I didn't get the visa on time because I I applied a little late for visa, then I got the visa, and I came on November 3rd 21. After I came, it was so cold In Bangladesh, the weather is usually hot.

Imrul Shuva [00:06:52]:

And, I mean, it's cold only nearly 2 months in Bangladesh, but not as cold as here. So it was too cold, and I have seen snow for the first time in my life. I was residing in First Street resident hall, then I had to buy groceries For myself, I didn't have a car, and I didn't know where to get those groceries. Then I talked to people at the School and at the dorm as well. I had some Interesting. Friends, and they're local. They're from here, undergrad students. They are living in my apartment.

Imrul Shuva [00:07:24]:

So some of them, you know, took me to buy groceries, but I was shocked by the cold. I mean, it was a different experience at that time. You know, if you are a country from, like, Bangladesh or South Asia, so the weather in winter is crazy here for those people. But now, you know, I'm getting used And I don't feel what I felt when I first came here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:46]:

Definitely takes some some time to, as we say, thicken the blood So that you have an opportunity to not have not to not be as cold as quick. But it it definitely takes some time to do that. Now I know that while you were going through graduate school, you also had some other changes that happened where you welcomed your first child Also and you are balancing that now of going to school, being in a foreign country, having a child That is that was born here. Talk to me about that and being a graduate student and having to to being able to focus on your graduate studies while also being a father for the 1st time.

Imrul Shuva [00:08:27]:

Yeah. So, Chris, it it was really challenging, I would say, not in terms of having a child because, My child is only two and a half months now. So but before that, when we decided to came that time, I didn't get full funding From the school, for master's program, they don't offer mostly I mean, don't offer full funding. But maybe with other jobs, on Campus jobs and assistantships, it's possible to cover, I mean, significant part of that. So I'm not discouraging people that you're not gonna get funding. You can get funding, but it's not Like that from 1 scholarship you are getting full fund. So I had that problem at the 1st place. I mean, I didn't have full funding.

Imrul Shuva [00:09:04]:

I got a little funding and then I came, but I managed to survive with those financial parts as well. I was trying to get a job, and then I applied for different graduate research assistantship Paulishan gave interview with some of the professors and then, you know, got selected for that. So now now it's pretty much balanced. I don't have those kind of problems, you know, maybe not from only 1 source from the school, but combining 2, 3 different source. Right now, I work as a student ambassador with the graduate programs office and then work as a GSRA. So from those and other on campus Jobs or whatever whenever I have time apart from my studies, you know, I try different things to support us financially. That's one part. And Being a new parent, you know, a new dad, it's a great feeling.

Imrul Shuva [00:09:53]:

I cannot express in words. But the 1st few Days for the 1st month, we were really struggling because it was a totally new experience we never had before. The baby Try is not sleeping in the night, waking up several times. I have to, you know, wake up and feed the baby, and then I know I have lab at 8 Thirty. I have another class at 12:30. So I'm gonna stay all day on campus and then waking up several time in the night. So it was a hectic for the 1st and half months, I would say. But now, you know, he is doing better.

Imrul Shuva [00:10:29]:

He is sleeping more In the night and things have got better if we have to feed him less. I mean, he is drinking more, but the frequency is less.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:40]:

Congratulations. I know what it's like to be a father, but it's always challenging in those early months to early year, especially when they don't sleep, And you're having to balance all that and walking around walking around a bit like a zombie as you're going from piece to piece as you're trying to do everything. Now Earlier, you said that one of the things you loved in your undergraduate experience was that research component. And as you mentioned, you are a Graduate student research assistant here at the University of Michigan Flint. You've been able to do some really cool things As a research assistant, talk to me about the difference between research at the undergraduate and graduate level, and what did you have to do to make that transition for yourself to be prepared, but also to be ready to do research at the graduate level versus what you had to do at the undergraduate level.

Imrul Shuva [00:11:34]:

So I don't know how it's gonna sound, but I think for me, it was a major difference With the professors and their support and their interest in giving me the opportunity to continue working in a project, in a research project, You know, very actively, we didn't have that practice at home. At least for me, I didn't have that opportunity that A professor would support me, you know, actively to work in a research project. We did the courses. I think we had a very good insights of the courses we did at undergrad Even with the programming course and all other courses I had, we learned so much from there. But in research perspective, so we didn't have much insight and much encouraged to continue our research. Or there was a lacking of time from our sent as well as from the other invite here. I found mostly supportive faculties. That's one thing.

Imrul Shuva [00:12:29]:

And the resources we have here at AUM Flint. The library, I think, for research, a very good resource For us, you find everything you need to do research in any of the fields, I believe. Because for me, the papers and The things I was looking, I always got from that library. I was able to download everything from that site at the school. And then, you know, I went through all of them, and I discussed with my professors, and they were actively working with me as well. So I I think that's the significant change I had. And we have some other graduate courses. Right? We have an online platform, Canvas.

Imrul Shuva [00:13:08]:

From there, we have to do some research courses as well. Those are optional, but we can take those, and we can get a good insight how to do research. And as a GSO, we have to provide feedback as well to the grad school, how we are doing, what we are doing. There are Some important things that will teach you how to not flag your resume in any of those research Manuscript you are writing. So back in home, there was a a little lack of those things, I would say. But here, they're more organized, And the professors are really helping towards getting those resources.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:45]:

Beyond research, I know you've been able to find success In your classes as well. And going from undergrad into a graduate program, there's always going to be some transition that you have to go through to be able to change the way that you think, prepare yourself in some way As you enter the classroom and the expectations that are being set in front of you from your faculty that are different than what you had in your undergraduate degree. So as you think back to that, what did you have to do to Set yourself up for success as you entered into the institution. And what did you have to do to maintain that Success as you've been going through your entire graduate school journey.

Imrul Shuva [00:14:32]:

At undergrad, we were more dependent on our teachers, You know, in terms of learning and in terms of getting our studies, so whatever, you know, they are telling us to do Or maybe a homework or maybe a study. We're just studying that and going to the class and to have the next lecture. But here, I would say it's A bit more on your own. I mean, they're gonna instruct you. They're gonna tell you what to do, but all the things you are gonna do, you're alone, and it's more independent study. For example, let's say I come to the lab 2, 3 days a day full time. I don't need to. As a GSO, you need to work only 6 hours.

Imrul Shuva [00:15:10]:

Right? And if I don't come to the lab, no one's gonna tell me anything. Why didn't you come or whatever? But, you know, I set a goal for myself. So I set a goal for myself, and I know if I work more, I will have a better idea of what I am doing, and that might help Me towards a publication or towards my PhD or or whatever, towards my future academic goals. So I don't have a boss, and your professors not gonna tell you that you you need to come to the lab and you Maybe why you are not coming to the lab rather, you know, it's on myself. It's more independent studies at grad school Compared to the undergrad, what I did in undergrad. So that's one transition. And for the coursework, I think if you are doing it is the same for this course or graduate course works. Right? Attendance and all those things back in home, you know, there was obligation for that.

Imrul Shuva [00:16:07]:

You have to attend class at least 60%, 80%, 90%. So those are the things for you at there. But at the grad level, I mean, no one's bothered about Taking add in dance or those kind of things. Rather, as long as you are doing your course works properly, as long as you are learning those topics, Submitting your homeworks on time, wherever you staying I mean, whatever you're doing, no one's bothered about that. But, I mean, it's On you, how you are doing and how you are studying, it's no one but you. But if you need help, I mean, I have found everyone to be very helpful. If you don't understand any topic after attending a class, just, you know, feel free to reach out to that professor, and I'm sure, you know, they're gonna help the reg to help us.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:54]:

So as I mentioned at the beginning, the light is at the end of the tunnel. You're seeing it down there. There you are almost done. I know you've got 1 class left Here before you graduate, as you look at the future, what is in store for you? What do you see as your next step, and where do you want to go?

Imrul Shuva [00:17:12]:

Teal, I have 2 plans in my mind, plan a and plan b. So, I mean, my plan b was to get a job in application designing and Qualitative data analysis, qualitative research, so those kind of things, which I have been doing for a while. And I'm enjoying my work, You know, in that field. So that's one thing, to get a job in an organization where I could utilize those skills of qualitative research and designing, and I could learn more and carry on those research. So that was plan a b. And then my plan a is now is to continue studying a few more years, continue my research a few more years, get more comfortable with it. And after that, to stay in academia, to be honest, that's plenty for now, to stay in academia. I dream to be a professor.

Imrul Shuva [00:18:05]:

Why not? You can dream anything. Right? So the bigger your dream, the bigger you maybe will be able to achieve. So so I dream to be a professor, a computer science professor. So that's in my mind right now. And to do that to help me with that, I want to do a PhD. And it's in qualitative data analysis more in any of the fields of human computer interaction, user experience designing. And by doing that, I know I will have a lot of chance to help the community as well. Right? You should be grateful for everything you have.

Imrul Shuva [00:18:43]:

You should be grateful for the people you have around you, the people who are supporting you. So and you always At least you need to try something for them as well. Not in return, but but you will feel great if you can do something for them as well. So I'm more into doing my research and application designing, user experience research, and towards that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:06]:

Now you've mentioned a number of different things that you had to do to prepare yourself to find success in your own journey of graduate school. As you look back at that graduate education, what are some tips that you might offer other students that are considering graduate education that would help them find success sooner?

Imrul Shuva [00:19:23]:

So as per my experience, my first suggestion I could give is to stop overthinking. Do not overthink. That's the first thing I would say. Because when I was in Bangladesh and I planned to come here, for me, I was overthinking a lot about those VISTA interviews and, I mean, small, small steps. I didn't have to, but I did. So I think it's it's Still the same case for many of the students. They're, you know, planning to come from abroad, so which can restrict them as well. And I can tell this because I interact with a lot of prospective students, and the students, they just came with those as a graduate ambassador.

Imrul Shuva [00:20:04]:

I have meeting with a lot of students from different parts of the world. And what I have felt is that many of those are overthinking. And Right now, I can understand they are, you know, unnecessary. They don't need to overthink that much. So that's one tip I could give. Stop overthinking about anything, but rather, you know, plan concrete. If you are planning to come to a school, plan for The best you could achieve in terms of getting scholarships, assistantships, and how you are gonna manage your funding, and what are the opportunities for you. So so those are the plan you need to have in your mind rather than overthinking.

Imrul Shuva [00:20:45]:

That's one thing. And Be on time with everything. I mean, with the coursework, with everything. So, I mean, Whatever you say to others, you you always try to maintain that. Or what what your responsibilities are, You don't, you know, run from them, not any point in time, whatever happens. Let's say I'm not on time in Submitting an assignment. It happened to me I mean, if not many times, still a lot of times it happened to me. The day my son born, I was in the hospital.

Imrul Shuva [00:21:21]:

You know? I took my wife 3 days ago to the hospital, and then I couldn't also inform my professor, but the day my son born, I had to submit 2 important assignments. I couldn't submit any of them. I just Send an email to these professors that I'm in a difficult situation, and so they're always helpful to listen to you to solve your problems, But you just need to, you know, need to let them know what's going on with you. Rather, let's say I'm not informing anything. And after after 5 days, I'm gonna tell them this happened. So it's better to let them know beforehand what's that, What's going on with me? Everyone's gonna consider that. So I would say, try to try to do all your works You are responsible for on time. That's another tip I would give.

Imrul Shuva [00:22:13]:

And whenever you have a problem, Whatever it is, how silly you think it is? The 1st place in my 1st semester, I know in class, They were going through some advanced topics of computer networking, and one of my professors from computer science department. I can name he say his name. It's professor, Soleiman Oludeg. So I'm going towards more advanced topics, And some of them, you know, I wasn't able to understand. And then I was very worried of asking him questions. You know? There are many students at the class. And, you know, I was thinking, I should have understood it. Maybe it's a very silly question.

Imrul Shuva [00:22:55]:

But whatever I Learned now, no question is silly as long as you don't understand it. So whatever it is, If you don't understand it, ask away to your professors. You know, this is the only way we can learn. We don't have any other ways to learn. I mean, If I have a problem in any topic I don't understand in the class and I am not asking, maybe I have to spend another 3 hours at home searching Google. And I might still not be able to understand that properly. But maybe, you know, in asking in a class, it might take only, you know, 30 seconds for them to explain and to make you understand. So those are the few tips I could give him as per my experience.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:36]:

Well, Imrul, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for Sharing your journey today, and I look forward to hearing what happens next in this next phase as you Get to the end of this master's degree, and I wish you all the best.

Imrul Shuva [00:23:52]:

Thank you so much for having me here, and it was nice meeting you. Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:56]:

The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for In person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our Graduate programs, visit umflute.eduforward/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at [email protected].

Graduate school is a significant undertaking that requires dedication, commitment, and a clear focus on personal and professional goals. This week on the Victors in Grad School Podcast we have a compelling conversation with Ron Williams, a successful business professional who holds a Master of Business Administration (MBA) from the University of Michigan - Flint. Throughout the episode, Ron shares valuable insights into his decision to pursue higher education, and the journey through his MBA program. His experience provides a wealth of knowledge for anyone considering or currently navigating the challenges of graduate school.

Reasons for Pursuing Grad School

As Ron delves into the reasons behind his decision to continue his education and pursue an MBA, he highlights three primary motivations. First, he sought to increase his earning potential, recognizing the tangible benefits that advanced education can bring. Additionally, the convenience and location of the program played a significant role, showcasing the importance of considering practical factors in choosing a graduate program. Finally, Ron was driven by a desire to expand his knowledge beyond his accounting background, aiming to gain a holistic understanding of business management. These motivations reflect the multifaceted considerations individuals should weigh before embarking on a graduate education journey.

Choosing the Right Graduate Program

When faced with various MBA program options, Ron's decision to attend the University of Michigan Flint was influenced by the institution's reputation and credibility. He emphasized the significance of the program's standing and the experiences of individuals who had gone through it. This highlights the importance of thoroughly researching and evaluating different programs to align with one's career goals and expectations. It reinforces the idea that beyond the educational content, the reputation and credibility of the institution can significantly impact one's educational experience and future career prospects.

Moving Towards Lifelong Learning

Ron's decision to pursue a Ph.D. stemmed from his diverse experiences and a strong foundation in lifelong learning. His military background instilled discipline and a drive for continuous improvement, shaping his approach to education and professional development. Additionally, his pursuit of a Ph.D. in business anthropology reflects a keen focus on understanding the science behind business and leveraging insights to support small and middle-market enterprises. This showcases the value of leveraging one's prior experiences and skills to carve a unique educational path that aligns with personal aspirations and long-term career goals.

Preparation for the Next Educational Chapter

Preparing for a Ph.D. involves seeking out mentorship and investing time in fundamental groundwork. Ron emphasizes the importance of finding mentors, both in academic and non-academic fields, as a critical part of professional development. Their guidance and insights can offer invaluable perspectives, aiding in personal growth and a broader understanding of complex subjects. Additionally, his dedication to reading recommended literature and seeking diversity in perspectives underscores the significance of embracing a well-rounded educational approach to enrich personal and professional growth.

Success in Graduate School

Reflecting on his MBA journey, Ron emphasizes the value of understanding material beyond the pursuit of grades. He highlights the importance of active listening, contextual understanding, and collaboration with peers as pivotal components of navigating a successful graduate school experience. His insights emphasize that success in higher education extends beyond academic achievements and requires a multifaceted approach that encompasses practical application and interpersonal learning from diverse perspectives.

Application of MBA Skills in Professional Endeavors

Ron's experience demonstrates the tangible benefits of his MBA education in shaping his daily professional endeavors. Beyond theoretical knowledge, his MBA equipped him with the ability to actively listen and comprehend diverse viewpoints, essential skills for navigating the complexities of business and leadership. His ability to collaborate, understand stakeholder perspectives, and lead teams stands as a testament to the practical application of knowledge gained during his MBA journey.

Advice for Aspiring Graduate Students

Drawing from his own experiences, Ron offers valuable advice for aspiring graduate students. He emphasizes the significance of dedicating time to truly understand course material, not solely for the sake of grades, but for comprehensive comprehension. This advice underscores the importance of embracing knowledge for its intrinsic value and the role it plays in preparing individuals for the dynamic challenges they will encounter in their respective industries.

Ron Williams' journey through the MBA program at the University of Michigan Flint offers a wealth of insights that can benefit individuals considering or currently navigating graduate school. His reflections on motivations, program selection, and the application of skills in professional settings provide a holistic view of the impact and importance of graduate education. As Ron moves forward in his pursuit of a Ph.D., his dedication to lifelong learning and the practical application of knowledge stand as exemplary lessons for anyone considering or already engaged in the challenging yet rewarding journey of graduate education.

This podcast is brought to you by The Office of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan-Flint. If you're still wondering about other things to consider when it comes to graduate school, you can also contact the Office of Graduate Programs at UM-Flint. We're here to answer questions Monday – Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. EST. You can also find out more about the 50+ programs that the university has to offer here.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]:

Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:12]:

Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, Director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan flick. Really excited to have you back again this week. This week, as always, You and I are on a journey together. We're talking about graduate school. We're talking about furthering your education. And I know that You might be just starting to think about this and looking at what is it gonna take for me to get into grad school, get through grad school, figure this all out. You may be in grad school right now and struggling through it and trying to balance work and life and school and all of the stuff that you have to do as you're going through that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:51]:

And some of you may be looking at that light at the end of the tunnel. You were you're almost done, or maybe you just finished, And you're kind of looking back and reminiscing a little bit. Whatever it is, this podcast was set up to help you to be able to look at graduate school in a little bit different way. And every week, I love being able to talk to you, to sit down with you, to talk about What does it take? What does it take to be successful in this journey that you're on? And every week, I have the pleasure of talking to Many, many people to talk with them about their journeys in their graduate school experience. And this week, we got another great guest with us. Ron Williams is with us today, and Ron is the senior vice president for PrintWell Incorporated, but he's also The principal and chief business strategist for Key Business Strategists, LLC. So he's got a lot going on. He He is a graduate of Davenport University where he got his bachelor's degree, and then he went on from there and got a master's of business administration at the University of Michigan Flint.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:58]:

Really excited to have him here and for him to share his own experiences with you. Ron, thanks so much for being here today.

Ron Williams [00:02:04]:

Thank you, doctor Lewis, for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:06]:

I am really excited to be able to have you here today to talk to you about this journey that you went on. And I think first and foremost, one of the things that I love to do is start off by turning the clock back in time. And I know that You did as I said, you did that master's degree at the University of Michigan Flint. And I guess At some point during your time at Davenport, after that time at Davenport, you made the decision that you wanted to continue your education and go on to graduate school. What were the reasons that you chose to continue your education and to move on with that education.

Ron Williams [00:02:44]:

So I think there are 3 primary reasons. First was obviously to increase my earning potential. Secondly, it was the location and the convenience of The program, I should say. At the time, when I started attending U of M Flint, I was the CFO, WGS Global Services in Grand Blanc. Timing wise, it was just perfect. 3rd and most notable, my undergraduate degree taught me how to do accounting, which is my undergraduate degree. However, I wanted to learn how to manage the accounting department. So I knew that I had to increase my knowledge of Not just accounting, but all other business applications as it relates to businesses today.

Ron Williams [00:03:26]:

So I started attending, U of M Flint By way of their weekend, MBA that required me only to attend once a month.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:35]:

You kind of answered my next Question, which is really a follow-up to this, which is really looking at the fact of there are many different MBA programs, And you probably had a lot of different options. You could have gone back to your undergrad. You could have gone to many different schools. What were some of the main reasons that you decided that you wanted to choose to go to the University of Michigan Flint?

Ron Williams [00:04:01]:

Yeah. So doctor Lewis, in the spirit of transparency, I did look between U of M Flint as well as some other institutions who offered A similar program, but none had the reputation that U of M Flint carried. I actually knew a Few individuals who attended U of M, Ann Arbor, U of M Dearborn, as well as U of M Flint. So and those individuals I found to be very knowledgeable very credible in their craft, and it led me to follow the same sort of path they did by way of, further aspiration into A not that the other programs are not good, but they don't have the weight and the credibility that U of M Flint carried.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:44]:

Now I know that you did that master's degree and you're currently in the process of preparing yourself To continue that education and to go into a doctorate program here in the near future. And I would love to hear a little bit more about that and the reasons behind why you're choosing to now go and get a PhD, and How you went about choosing the program that you ended up choosing.

Ron Williams [00:05:13]:

I think it stems from my time in the army. So before I started my collegiate path, I spent 8 years in the US Army where I was a chief warrant officer. And what a chief warrant officer is, for those that don't know in the army, is considered to be A subject matter expert at whatever their discipline is. So I was a quartermaster, and I spent a lot of time learning Technical manuals and even to the extent of writing some technical manuals in my, later end of my 8 years Andy Army started, then I went, as I was discharged, I went to OCC, Davenport University, subsequently, Dearborn. And what at each level, it encouraged me to to look at things differently than I had previously. It challenged me not only to look at things differently, but also to it created a desire for me to wanna be a part of the process, not just in accounting, not just in the accounting department, but also in business overall. So Apartment and I, we founded, Key Business strategists in Detroit. And we currently we have customers in the Midwest, currently in 8 states.

Ron Williams [00:06:25]:

Our goal is to continue to grow that. I also spent time as a banker. And then in that, I have the opportunity to look at a lot of different business models To learn what worked and what didn't. And now that I've gained the MBA, now that I know how to manage the processes, now that I have learned those things that work and those things that don't work. I feel that the PhD in business anthropology will help me craft business In a way that will help small and middle market businesses to avoid the loopholes that a lot of small and middle market businesses face. As you know, A lot of businesses who start out, they don't make it, and they don't make it because of what I coined is the linchpin theory. Right? That one decision that they did or did not make that cascaded them off the trajectory of success. So now that I have made that decision to continue my education, it was about choosing the right institution.

Ron Williams [00:07:21]:

While U of M Flint is a great institution. For business, I wanted to go just a little bit away from the business discipline, more of the anthropological aspect of business to understand the science Behind the business, it allows me to get rid of those blind spots that I have and that everyone has while I consider myself to be very good at what I do. I do also understand is that there is always room for improvement, And that is something I've gotten from the MBA program at U of M Flint is that continuous improvement is a mindset. We can't get to one particular place in time And believe that that we're safe, if you will. So we have to continue to develop ourselves, develop those around us, to further develop the organization. So that is what led me to investigating multiple, as I said, PhD programs around the country. Ultimately, I decided on, Wayne State University here in the city of Detroit. My wife and I, we currently live in a historic district Here, in the city, another business enterprise that we we own, is Oasis Residential Cleaning Services.

Ron Williams [00:08:32]:

So we started that business, during during COVID. We were looking for a home cleaning service, and we couldn't find a Dependable solution. And one of the things that I learned from the program is that when when you find an opportunity to meet the opportunity with a solution, and our solution was to create The enterprise to cater to the 8 historic districts within the city of Detroit. And in doing that, we have created great relationships with politicians here in the city as well as you name it. Ran into a lot of U of M graduates, a lot of Michigan State graduates. I was asked, what do I give credit to? And certainly, it is U of M Flint that gives me the ability to be able to make the right decisions at the right time. And had I not attended U of M Flint, I don't think I would have been as well provisioned to undertake those tasks as I am today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:23]:

One of the things that I guess that I would ask because I know that you said that you are in the process of preparing yourself for the PhD. And you also mentioned the importance of lifelong learning for you. When you say that you're preparing yourself, what are you doing to prepare yourself to make that next step and to start in this new program in the future.

Ron Williams [00:09:46]:

So one of the things that I learned, and it goes back to my time in the army, is to find a mentor. And in finding a mentor, again, it somewhat goes to what my overall vision is of Being a value add. So if you wanna be a solution to others, it stands to reason that we should find mentors, Someone who has already been down the road that we choose to go. And when you find a mentor, you know, that mentor can really give you some insight that you would not have gotten otherwise. So in finding a mentor and I have mentors in the academic field as well as nonacademic field, because I think that everyone has something valuable to add. And if I can take all of that and leverage it in a way to improve myself, then it would just make me ultimately, it will help me become a value to my society and community. So that's the direction that I wanna go. So I will always read books That were recommended by my mentors or those that from just doing, passive research that I find areas of interest.

Ron Williams [00:10:47]:

I read the material to Challenge the way that I see things as well as to give me different perspectives to have a more all inclusive approach to those That I currently work with, those that I lead, and those that I ultimately will work with in the future.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:04]:

Now throughout your experience, You found success. You got through that master's degree. You got through the bachelor's degree, and you made a successful transition. And I say a transition because there is a transition between the bachelor's, the master's, now for you preparing and and the transition that going to go through as you go into a PhD because every level of education is a little bit different. As you look back to the experience that you had In your MBA in graduate school, what did you have to do in that transition to prepare yourself For being successful, to set yourself up for success. But what did you have to do also to maintain That success throughout the entire graduate school journey.

Ron Williams [00:11:54]:

So U of M's program is great, the way that it's structured. So we met in class once a month, and that was an Opportunity to meet with the professors and to offer them to ascertain any questions that we may have and to provide further direction. But we met A lot outside of the classroom, and I had to always work with a great cohort who were knowledgeable in their field, whatever their fields may have been in it. It gave me a lot of insight from their vantage point that I never considered from the desk of accounting or finance, be it HR, engineering, or Customer service sales, name it, all over the spectrum. What I found in those cohorts is that it gave me a rich experience, not just from Gaining the theoretical applications that were offered by the book, but also a practical view of how organizations would see certain changes, if you will. So one of the courses that come to mind is Professor Bloom's course and organization change, which is very, I would say probably one of the most insightful courses I've ever had because in doing so, we had to talk with different stakeholders and understand The vantage point of the stakeholder and being able to get everyone to move in the same direction. In the army, that's kind of easy because Everyone knows that we don't go home until the objective is achieved. Here, though, in the corporate community, it's a little different because It's a different standard where individuals are allowed to move about as they please, whether the objective is achieved or not.

Ron Williams [00:13:22]:

So in being able to work with those teams and cohorts, it sharpened my skills in terms of being able to collaborate with individuals who think differently than I so the in class Portion with professors as well as the cohort time outside of the class row. So what I would recommend to those aspiring to attend U of M's Program or who's in any program is Larry's the professors. That's why they are there. They're knowledgeable in their field. And, also, the individuals who are sitting next here. Because they have the same goal as you do, which is to finish the course at the minimum or to finish the program at best. So if you understand these things and you work with, the individuals in the in the in the in the program. And so, you know, maybe not just in your in your class.

Ron Williams [00:14:07]:

I actually met A lot of, I have made a lot of colleagues who I've never had a course with, but they were in the MBA program. So I ran into them on the hallways or doing some sort of break or through, some social platform like LinkedIn, and it has proven beneficial for sure.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:25]:

Now you Mentioned already that you took a lot from this MBA, and you're you've got a lot of things going on. You've got a lot of Irons in the fire. As you look at the education that you got through that MBA program, how do you feel that the graduate degree has prepared you for the work that you do on a daily basis.

Ron Williams [00:14:46]:

So as I said, you know, a few times already, coming from the military, I have a certain mindset, and it's Something that you just don't shake once you are discharged. So I have a certain regimen that I like to go by. I'm a person of certain Standards and discipline, if well, it is the same expectation, though, that I have of others. But the reality is, though, is that everyone did not go into There are services, so they don't have the benefit of having that sort of drive the way that I do. While I was in the program, it Taught me in listening to the professors lecture and listening to other cohorts. It taught me how to actively listen to what is being said, But more importantly or equally as important to understand the reasons why it is being said. Because if you don't take it within the entire context, Then you can certainly miss the entire point that is being made, or certainly you can miss the opportunity to provide adequate feedback. So I'll say that is certainly one of the that's certainly among the biggest benefits that I have gotten from attending the program.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:51]:

I appreciate you sharing that. Now you've given a lot of pieces of advice today thinking about how, like you said, How that MBA has prepared you for all the things that you're doing today. But as you think back to your graduate education and you think of either your younger the person that you were before you went into a graduate degree or other people that are thinking about potentially going to graduate school. What are some tips that you might offer Others considering graduate education that would help them define success sooner.

Ron Williams [00:16:20]:

Spend the time that it takes to really understand the material, not for the sake of a grade, but for the sake of really understanding the material and the and the context to which it is being given. Don't focus. So the grades are certainly absolutely important, but what's more important is understanding the materials. If you understand the materials, it would allow you to evolve in a way that that you would not otherwise. If you If you if you dedicate the time to, studying and and understanding the the materials, I think that you would at each level, each course, You would certainly be prepared to undertake anything the world has to offer from a business standpoint and even beyond that. That is certainly the advice I would give to others.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:07]:

Well, Ron, I just wanna say thank you for being here, for sharing your journey. And as you move forward, I am excited to hear about the next phase in your education as you step into that that next very different journey that you're going to be in. And I am hoping that you'll talk to me in the future. We'll talk about that, and I'll hear more about what you're learning as you move Through that next phase. But thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing everything today, and I wish you all the best.

Ron Williams [00:17:38]:

Thank you for having me, doctor Lewis. Hopefully, I can use you as a resource in the future to talk about, those things that, that I'm learning and how they apply to the business community and how best to How best managers could use certain tools by way of AI, which is a big topic right now or but it will never replace the collaboration of it. So Thank you again, doctor Lewis, for having me, and I look forward to speaking with you in the future.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:03]:

The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs If you are interested in continuing your education, whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit umflute.eduforward/graduateprograms To find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, Email me at [email protected].

In this episode of Victors in Grad School, We welcome Brandee Cooke-Brown, the Executive Director of 100k Ideas, a nonprofit organization in Flint, Michigan. We discuss Brandee's journey from her undergraduate education at the University of Michigan to her decision to pursue a master's degree after several years of working. Brandee explains that her path to graduate school was not a traditional one, and she joined a college advising program after her undergraduate degree and worked for a few more years before deciding to return to education.

Brandee talks about her transition back to school and how she had to manage her time effectively. She highlights the importance of carving out time and staying organized to succeed in graduate school. She shares her experience of attending virtual classes and how it allowed her to be more comfortable and engaged as an introverted student.

The conversation delves into how Brandee built strong relationships with her program adviser and professors, emphasizing that it was crucial to establish a connection with her instructors, which was something she did not excel at during her undergraduate studies. She also discusses the importance of making graduate school a part of her life and utilizing the knowledge gained from the program in her job at 100k Ideas, directly applying concepts learned from overall MPA program.

Brandee touches on the significance of her graduate degree in preparing her for her role at 100k Ideas and how it helped close gaps in her knowledge and build her confidence. She discusses the practicality of what she learned and its direct application in her nonprofit work.

The podcast episode concludes with Brandee talking about her recognition as one of the "40 under 40" individuals in Genesee County, which is a source of pride for both her and her organization, 100k Ideas. She reflects on the importance of stepping out of one's comfort zone and taking action when pursuing higher education.

This episode serves as an insightful conversation about the value of graduate education, the importance of time management, building relationships with professors, and applying knowledge gained in a professional context. It offers valuable advice to aspiring graduate students.

This podcast is brought to you by The Office of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan-Flint. If you're still wondering about other things to consider when it comes to graduate school, you can also contact the Office of Graduate Programs at UM-Flint. We're here to answer questions Monday – Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. EST. You can also find out more about the 50+ programs that the university has to offer here.

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]:

Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]:

Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, you and I are on a journey together, A journey into looking at this journey of graduate school of what it takes to find success in that graduate school journey, and for Every person in that journey is a little bit different, and it's important to be able to learn from others. It's important to be able to talk to one another And to be able to hear the stories of others because from everyone's story, you're gonna hear something a little bit different about what they had to do to be able to take Those steps and do what they had to do to find success post bachelor's degree because it does take a little bit of different steps To be able to be successful in graduate school more so than your undergraduate degree as well. Every week, I love being able to bring you different guests, different people with different experiences That have gone through that graduate school journey themselves. And today, we've got another great guest with us. Brandee Cooke-Brown is with us today, and Brandee is the executive director of 100K Ideas, Which is a nonprofit in Flint, Michigan, and they are doing amazing things.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:29]:

And I am really excited to talk to her about her journey And having her here today. Brandy, thanks so much for joining us.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:01:37]:

Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:38]:

Well, I really appreciate your time today. I really appreciate you being here. Now I know you did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan down in Ann Arbor, and then after a couple of years, we'll say Couple of years after grad after your undergraduate degree

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:01:56]:

You're very generous.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:58]:

You decided to go back And you decided to get a master's degree. So for every person, that journey is a little bit different, and there's a reason find why people make that choice. So talk to me about what was going through your head, and what were the reasons that you chose to go back to graduate school After being in the workforce for a little bit.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:02:20]:

Unlike some of my fellow students when they were graduating, you know, a lot of them had Plans to go right into grad school or, you know, hey. We're gonna work and then go back to grad school. They kind of had that plan figured out. I did not. I even say, like, I found my next Step after college by, like, literally the seat of my pants and, like, an amazing opportunity happened to exist, and I was able to join the Mission College advising core. But I joined that thinking, okay. That's a 2 years, you know, of getting some real life experience. I'd be ready to go.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:02:46]:

I still was not. So I spent a couple more years working. I was able You get some really great experience in the private sector. And then a couple years into that, I ended up coming to Flint and meeting the cofounder of a 100 k ideas at an event that was being hosted at the Ferris School before it opened, and that's where I got introduced to a 100 k ideas and kind of fast forward. I ended up in Flint Because of that job, which was awesome, and as things are kinda moving and things are going and, you know, I'm catching a rhythm into life here From where I originally was in Lansing, COVID happened. And because, you know, things kind of slowed all the way down in COVID, I was like, hey. I have some extra time. What else am I doing in my life? Maybe now is the time to look at going back.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:03:28]:

And I had had my eye on University of Michigan's Flint's program for quite a while. We'll have the opportunity to talk to a couple people who have participated. And what I really liked about the program was that they understood as a We have life. There's a lot of nontraditional students that go, many that have taken time off in between, and that was very appealing to me. And, also, this is proximity to where I was and the ability to be very flexible with where I was at that point in my life. You know, my daughter was 1 at the time. I think I'd just gotten into a role of leadership for a 100 k. So there was a lot of transition happening, and then let's throw in a grad program at that, but it really honestly worked out at the perfect time.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:04:03]:

And so I kinda just jumped on it and just didn't think about it. Like, application, I didn't take too hard about it. I was like, let's just go and then think we're just rolling, and it turned out to be just such an amazing experience.

Christopher Lewis [00:04:14]:

Now for every student as they Especially if they take some time off between that undergraduate work and going to graduate work, there is going to be that shift and that Relearning that you have to go through to be able to not only get back into the the mode of learning from the mode of working, but then you're also balancing all of the other things that you're having to deal with. Talk to me first about What you had to do to be able to get back into the groove of being able to be back in school after taking that time off.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:04:49]:

Yeah. So a lot of it was Just carving out time and really getting organ like, just very organized. I thought I was organized, and I was not as organized as I thought until I had to incorporate those into my life. I am someone that does very well when I have, like, the set meeting and, like, the the to dos right after. And so that program, while again, started in COVID, all of it was virtual, but it was still class times. So it wasn't just doing at the time, it was Blackboard. I think it switched over to Canvas, but not just having a class where I just logged in to Blackboard and had to participate during discussions. For me, it was very important that I did have, hey.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:05:22]:

In this evening, I'm having this class. And then it was, like, a dedicated time to focus, And that really helped me out kind of getting it into my routine. And that allowed me to kind of start slowly edging back into, okay, I need to carve out study time. I need to carve out this space. And so what I found was evenings right after class were very helpful for me even though sometimes classes would run late. That was a perfect time because I was already in the mode. So I had you know, I'd hang up the Zoom, and I'm like, okay. Let me just go ahead and dive right in.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:05:48]:

Let me start outlining notes. Let me start reading. Let me start doing something. And that was very helpful to me because weekends were always tough. And then anytime during the day, I'm already working, so I really would take those times where I was already in it To capitalize on that opportunity to be able to get a lot of stuff done. So then as, like obviously, there are times where the schedule is not that flexible and you're really just spitting it in when you can. I kind of had an Organic practice by that point that I was able to kinda get myself back going.

Christopher Lewis [00:06:13]:

I just kinda talked to a lot about time management, And there are a lot of different things that go into being able to find success. And the program you went through was a few years long, so you had to Do that balancing for a while and have that time management going for a while. As you think about the journey that you went on through the entire program And you look at where you were at the beginning, where you were at the end, there had to have been other things outside of the time management piece probably that you had do to set yourself up for success and things that you had to do to be able to maintain that success throughout graduate school. Can you talk about that?

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:06:49]:

The biggest thing was creating a relationship with The program adviser and my professors, that was something I did not do very well in undergraduate school. Ann Arbor's pretty big. So, you know, trying to make yourself stand out is a little difficult, and being a very Introverted person I am, that was not a strength, but that was something I mentally noted as I was entering the program to do better. Like, I wanted to make sure they understood. Like, I cared about this. I was signing up for this. So when there were days where I might be struggling or I might need more time, it wasn't like, who's this random person coming up to me asking, you know, for help? But they actually, like, knew me. They knew I was serious about this program, and that was a great thing.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:07:23]:

And so really developing a relationship What doctor Sachs early on was very helpful, and she also is just an incredible adviser and person for that program. Like, I love her. But her Also, developing that relationship allowed me to kind of set the right tone because we were I was very clear, like, hey. This, you know, 2 classes a semester is Perfect. Like, please don't add anything else to it. Where would that get me? Okay. That's 3 years. Alright.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:07:45]:

So it's 3 years. That's just where we are. A little longer than I would have liked, but, you know, that is what it is. But it allowed me to set the tone for how I move forward. So relationship development was huge. And then really just also making it a part of my life, not Just like this thing to the side, but, like, oh, man. I gotta make sure I read or even talking about it at work. You know, a 100 k is being employed current college students.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:08:07]:

So a lot of them are Graduating and figuring out what that next stage is and are trying to figure out, do they wanna go to grad school? So really being vocal about what I was doing with everybody so that way they also understood, like, Okay. Brandy's got this going on and not to be like, oh, that's why I didn't get this done, but really, like, no. Here's, like, a whole new facet. Here's what I'm learning from it. And then what I think is so great about the MPA program that I was Part of the public administration program is I was able to directly apply so much of what I was learning to my day to day life in nonprofit. So that's what was the appeal of the program. And so to be able to, hey. Oh, I read this.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:08:41]:

Oh, wait. Let me take this back to work. We need to be doing this. Like, that Was fantastic, and I was in a position where I could actually implement those things. It wasn't like I had to go and say, hey. I think we should do that. I could just, like, no. We need to do this, guys.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:08:52]:

Let's go ahead and knock it out. And that was incredibly helpful for me as someone because it was really like I say, it became just a part of my life, an extension of what I was doing in it just so beautifully with everything I was already working on.

Christopher Lewis [00:09:04]:

One of the things that you were just talking about was the fact that in graduate school that you had to develop strong relationships with your adviser, your faculty, and you didn't do that well in undergrad. What did you have to do? What steps did you have to follow to be able to not only create that first relationship, but also to Build upon, foster, cultivate, and make that relationship stronger to maintain it throughout your graduate school experience.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:09:37]:

Ironically, I feel like being virtual helped me thrive. That makes sense. Again, being very introverted. Virtual, it's a little awkward when people come off mute, and you're trying the time to talk, but for me, that was perfect because there wasn't pressure. I was just at home. So, you know, I'd have an opinion, so I'd speak up in class and be able to give my opinion and I was engaged in listening, so that was very helpful. And, you know, again, doctor Sachs was very open with office hours, so I made sure to attend those. Whether I had her as a Teacher at that semester or not, we would go, you know, for coffee and just say, hey.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:10:07]:

How are things going? You know, how are you doing? Here's what's going on. And, you know, she would get to know me. And then what was also great about being virtual people could see my life. My daughter literally was growing up in front of like, we were all. Like, at a point, it's the same bunch of you in the same classes, You know, each semester, so they're, like, watching her grow up behind me while she's growing up and running behind the scenes. So that was also a connection that people were making with me as well as, like, with my professors. And then luckily, a couple of them, I kinda got lucky because I knew them outside of school. So I actually, You know, I had developed a relationship with them.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:10:39]:

They happen to be faculty at U of M Flint, so that was an awesome plus there because then I also could, you know, lean on them a little heavier because I could say, oh, hey. Well, you know my flight. You know? Here's what we're doing. How do I apply this? You know? You know a little bit more about what's going on. And so, again, I was Trying to be very intentional in developing those relationships and not just when I needed something, but to kind of, you know, really Be like, hey. How are things going? Like, what's going on? Which is not normal for me in general, but really trying to be proactive about that, and realizing also that these relationships maintain past this point. Right? Like, it's not just grad school is not the one, stop for these relationships. You wanna keep them going and keep facilitating them over all these of these years.

Christopher Lewis [00:11:23]:

You know, I love that because I mean, I think that It's so important. I mean, it's so important for you to be able to build those relationships, not only with your faculty, but with your peers and Being able to learn from their experiences as well because they are gonna bring different things, a different dynamic, a different diverse background to the classroom as well. And in a perfect scenario, you all bring all of that together to have this Beautiful mixing pot of of experiences that help you to be able to take the information that you're learning And turning it into something better. And in graduate school, that's the thing that a lot of times you don't get out of undergrad because of the fact that So many undergrads are very they're traditional age, and they're going through it, and they don't have the other experiences to bring into the mix. So they're learning more from the person in front of you versus all around you. And and I think that's one of the things that's kind of unique about that.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:12:22]:

Absolutely.

Christopher Lewis [00:12:23]:

Now you've kind of talked a little bit about this, but you completed your graduate degree. You've had it now for a few years. And As you look at the work that you do at 100 k ideas, how do you feel that the graduate degree has prepared you for the work that you're doing on a daily basis?

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:12:40]:

Oh, beyond. It's one of those things where I had a little bit of impostor syndrome when I came into this leadership position. That was one of the catalyst For getting my grad degree, like, yes. It was COVID. There was a lot of things going on. I'd wanted to do it. But this specific degree, you know, being in public administration with a nonprofit with a nonprofit concentration, I thought, would help close some of those gaps I was learning on the fly. Like, I, you know, was able to pick up things pretty quickly, but Having kind of that background of, hey.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:13:06]:

Well, this is why this exists. Here's the background. Here's the understanding. Here's kind of how all of these connect together was Fantastic because it really did close a lot of gaps in how we could operate and also our potential for how we move forward. And what wild as I remember, we were one of the classes we were doing logic models and, you know, evaluation plans, and that's central to a lot of nonprofits because a lot of your grant funders asking you for your logic, your evaluation plan. And I was like, oh, look at this. This is perfect. And I was able to also leverage a 100 quay quite a bit And using that as an opportunity to help both.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:13:38]:

Right? Like, help, you know, my organization by using these projects as a way to kind of explore areas in my traditional work in my day to day, I would not have the ability to do. So it really allowed me to put into practice immediately what was going on. And so, again, it helped kind of alleviate that. Do I know what I'm doing? You know, it kinda helps 1 of my favorite. You're on the right track. You got this. But then add that credential to be like, no. You really do actually know what you're doing.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:13:59]:

You can feel confident in In what you know and what you're doing and how you're moving forward. And that's one thing I will say, and I told this to doctor Sacks. When my program was ending, I was like, no. I appreciate you so much that everything was applicable. Like, there was nothing I felt like was a throwaway class. There was nothing I felt like I didn't take anything from her. I just did it to get the credit. Like, everything was able to be used, and I've been able to use it in different facets of my position.

Christopher Lewis [00:14:22]:

Now one of the things that you kinda get surprised with over the last year was being recognized and as One of the 40 under 40 in Genesee County area. And talk to me about that and what that's meant to you and your organization.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:14:37]:

Oh, it meant a lot. I mean, it's there's a lot of people in this area. So to be named 1 of 40, and I also don't consider myself that close to 40, so I feel like I had some time to make it. It's pretty awesome, but also just to see the company I'm in. And these are people that I look at every day as, oh my gosh. You guys are doing such awesome things. Like, you know, one day I wanna be like you. So To be put into that company and to see that, yes, I'm being recognized, but, really, it's a 100 k that's also being recognized for doing great things is awesome.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:15:03]:

And I will never I take that for granted. Ironically, at that event is when I realized one of the people I knew on the list was also in the MPA program. So initially, we were like, Yeah. How are you? How are things going? And so we were able to make a, you know, additional connection on top of the one we already had. And so, again, this community has a lot of amazing people doing great things. And so to be able to be among that group was pretty special.

Christopher Lewis [00:15:25]:

It definitely is special and definitely a great opportunity, like you said, for your nonprofit to get To get notoriety, but also for you to be recognized for the work that you do. Now thinking back at graduate school and the experience that you had in that graduate school experience, Maybe even thinking back to that younger self, that student back in at Ann Arbor going through the motions, maybe not exactly knowing exactly where she was going. What are some tips that you might offer your younger self or others that are considering graduate education that would help them define success?

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:15:56]:

Well, first, I would say don't think too hard about it. Like, I think that's where we get our we get in our heads too much, and we can talk ourselves out of anything. And that's something I did a lot As an undergraduate student, whether it came to joining a club or, hey. I'm gonna go to this meeting or I'm gonna engage in this way. I would be able to talk myself out of it because it was so far my comfort zone at that time. And so I really made a point of, if I have to second guess it because it's a comfort situation, then I just need to go ahead and go Right. That's why, like, it's obviously a challenge I need to to explore. And so that's really the biggest thing is just getting outside of your own head and really just going for the things that you want.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:16:30]:

I've realized, like, you can't sit and hope that someone notices you or sit and, you know, hope that something happens. There's some action that has to go behind that. It's very important to kinda just keep pushing yourself. Don't get complacent of where you are. Because, again, like, it's kind of the whole reason part of me also went to grad school. Right? Because at that point, I'm like, okay. I'm in a teen. I got it.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:16:48]:

You know? Yeah. Things got a little appended because of COVID, but not much. But it's just not like, okay. Well, I'm just in this. What's next? What's next? What's next? And that was Mind what's next. And so I'm so glad I did it. So that's the thing I think if anybody's wondering or sitting on if there's the right time. I think there's never a right Time for anything, and so you kinda just have to jump in when when you feel the urge or you feel the pull.

Christopher Lewis [00:17:08]:

Well, Brandy, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for Sharing your story, and thank you for all that you're doing with 100 k ideas to push individuals to think differently and to Encourage young people to think differently, and I wish you all the best.

Brandee Cooke-Brown [00:17:23]:

Thank you so much, and thank you so much for having me. This has been awesome.

Christopher Lewis [00:17:26]:

The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking For in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit umflint.edu/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a Victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, Email me at [email protected].

In this episode of Victors in Grad School podcast, Dr. Christopher Lewis, the Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan Flint, speaks with Leslie Whetstone, the Associate Director of Undergraduate Admissions at the University of Michigan Flint. They discuss Leslie's journey from earning a Bachelor of Arts in History to pursuing a Master's of Business Administration (MBA) at Baker College.

Leslie shares that she initially aimed to work in a museum or research-related field with her history degree but ended up in retail management. Her path led her to higher education, where she found her passion for working with students. When she transitioned to the Graduate Studies campus, she needed to earn a master's degree within two years, making the decision to further her education.

She chose an MBA to broaden her career opportunities, especially in leadership roles. Her motivation to pursue an MBA was also influenced by her familiarity with Baker College and its flexible, asynchronous online format. She appreciated the program's quick-paced classes, which suited her writing and research strengths.

To succeed in graduate school, Leslie highlights the importance of time management and discipline, especially when juggling work, home life, and school. She emphasizes the significance of carving out time and being prepared to adjust plans to meet academic commitments. Leslie achieved her goal of graduating with an MBA, even though her journey was non-traditional and involved overcoming challenges.

Her MBA education provided her with valuable skills in leadership, team motivation, and self-improvement. Leslie recommends that others take the first step towards their academic goals and believes that investing in graduate education can lead to professional growth, self-discovery, and a more rewarding career.

Dr. Christopher Lewis encourages aspiring graduate students to explore their options, and the University of Michigan Flint offers a variety of master's and doctoral programs, both in-person and online, to cater to diverse needs and interests. For more information, you can visit their website.

The conversation with Leslie Whetstone highlights how pursuing a graduate degree can open doors to new opportunities and personal growth, demonstrating the importance of taking that first step towards your academic goals.

This podcast is brought to you by The Office of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan-Flint. If you're still wondering about other things to consider when it comes to graduate school, you can also contact the Office of Graduate Programs at UM-Flint. We're here to answer questions Monday – Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. EST. You can also find out more about the 50+ programs that the university has to offer here.

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]:

Welcome to the Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]:

Welcome back to Victors in grad school. I'm your host, dr. Christopher Lewis, director of Graduate Programs for the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week we are talking to different individuals who have gone beyond their bachelor's degree, have studied different things, have learned different things along the way to be able to find success in that graduate school journey. Now, I know you may already be in grad school, you may be thinking about graduate school. You are on a path toward future education or you're in future education, and you're looking for ways in which you can find success yourself. And that's what this podcast is all about.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:51]:

It is here to help you to find success in that graduate school journey. And every week I love being able to bring you different people that have had different experiences that you can learn from and take things that they learned ahead of you to implement into your own experience. This week we got another great guest with us. Leslie Wetstone is with us. Leslie is the Associate Director of Undergraduate Admissions at the University of Michigan Flint. She started her undergraduate work at the University of Michigan Flint, but then went beyond the University of Michigan Flint to get a Master's of Business Administration at Baker College Center for Graduate Studies. And we're going to talk about that experience and learn from the journey that she had. Leslie, thanks so much for being here today.

Leslee Whetstone [00:01:39]:

No problem. I'm happy to be here. Better to have you here today. One of the things I love doing is, first and foremost, turn the clock back in time. I want to go back a few years. I said that you did your undergraduate work here at the University of Michigan, Flint. But then at some point during that undergraduate work, maybe after that, because there was quite a few years between that time in which you got your bachelor's degree and the time in which you decided to get your Master's degree, but at some point you made that decision that you wanted to go further. You wanted to go from getting that Bachelor of Arts in History to getting that MBA.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:18]:

Tell me about what made you decide that you wanted to continue that education and move forward toward that Master's degree. Yeah, so when I got my degree in history, obviously my career path was thought of a little bit different than what it was going to be. I did want to work in a museum or doing research, having that history degree, I was working in retail management and came across a position in higher education in the admissions department, actually, at Baker College for their Flint campus, and I applied and started working there. I really enjoyed working in higher education. I was at the Flint campus for about ten years and made the transition to work at the Graduate Studies campus. At that time, it was a requirement for me to earn a master's degree within two years or start it at least within two years of making that transition into the Graduate Studies program. Had I not moved, I don't know that my decision would have been to get a graduate degree. I am very happy that I did because it has brought me to where I am today, working for the University of Michigan Flint in an Associate Director position.

Leslee Whetstone [00:03:42]:

I am currently in 18 years of higher education, and I love it. I love working with students. I like to be able to discuss what brought me into education. I had a very untraditional path. I started out at Mott Community College. I spent about a year and a half there before I transferred to U of M Flint. It took me six years to earn my bachelor's degree, so it was a little bit of a longer, untraditional path, and then it was another 16 years between my undergraduate to get my graduate degree. Did decide to get the Master's of Business Administration, and you chose to go to Baker College.

Christopher Lewis [00:04:25]:

Now, it may have been a proximity piece because, like you said, you were working at Baker College at the time, and they had the degree. So it may have been just that. It was very close and very much something that was available to you. Talk to me about the reason for choosing a Master's of Business Administration, because there could have been other degrees that you could have probably chosen to, and also the degree itself at Baker College. Why baker College? Why an MBA? Yeah. So as you mentioned, Chris, my undergraduate degree is in history. In the workforce, it's not really that viable of a degree unless they do not care what your degree is in. I felt going into a Business Administration Master's degree would give me some diversity, would open up for some additional job opportunities.

Leslee Whetstone [00:05:19]:

I wanted to be in a leadership position, and this would allow me to have that business and leadership education to back up some of my work experience that I've already had. I did work in some leadership positions at Baker College. I chose them because I worked there. I liked the pace of the degree. It was an asynchronous classroom. The classes were six weeks each, and it was a very heavy writing program and research program. And that was my strong suit, is writing and research. So I felt like it fit into my needs with quick classes and what I enjoyed doing.

Christopher Lewis [00:06:01]:

Appreciate you sharing that. Now, you did get through that program, you got through the degree. You were successful in gaining that graduate degree for yourself. As you look at the success that you had in graduate school, and you think back to the time when you were in undergrad, but also that time off and then that transition back into higher education. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success, and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout your graduate school journey? So time management was huge. When I was in my undergraduate, yes, I worked, and I had more of a flexible job. I did not have any children. 16 years later, I'm in a graduate program, and I did have a child at that point.

Leslee Whetstone [00:06:53]:

She was 14 then. So pretty self sufficient. But a lot of the things that I did need to set myself up was managing my job load at work, my home life, and my school life. So that definitely was something that was a little bit of a transition. But on top of that, because I earned my undergraduate, or when I was in my undergraduate, it was in the late 1990s, there was not a lot of online classes that were available, and this program was 100% online, so I had never used an online format. So that, again, was a little bit of a learning curve for me. I was familiar with using computers and CRM systems at work, but actually having that discipline of an Asynchronous classroom and setting that time aside to do everything that I needed to do because it was a fast pace, it was, again making sure that I was carving out time and turning down plans if necessary, just to fit everything in. I did all right in my undergraduate, but in my graduate, my goal was to graduate with a 4.0.

Leslee Whetstone [00:08:07]:

I didn't quite reach that goal. I did graduate with a 3.85, so I was pretty happy with how I did in planning to earn that degree. Do you think back to the education that you had, the classes that you had, the things that you learned during that MBA degree, and you think to the work that you have done since getting that degree, how has that prepared you for the work that you're doing on a daily basis? It has greatly prepared me because with my Master's of Business Administration, I did focus on leadership, and I am now in a leadership position. So one of the main focuses was working. Know how to work with diverse teams and how to motivate teams without being discouraging. Looking at researching past leaders such as you think Warren Buffett was one that we discussed and what their leadership styles are. But then also in those classes, spending that time to figure out how I could be an effective leader with a team and what my strong suits are, but more importantly, what my weaknesses are. Like what I can focus on to grow as a leader, but also to connect with my team and feel like I'm part of a team and continue to motivate.

Leslee Whetstone [00:09:36]:

So really my biggest focus was trying to learn how to be a better leader and be able to bring that into my current field in higher education. Now. Also, as you look back at your MBA degree and you think about the things that you had to do as you said, the time management and other things that you had to do to find that success in grad school, and you think about the person that you were then, and maybe think about other students that are going through this similar experience. What are some tips that you might offer to others that are thinking about graduate school and finding success for themselves? I would recommend to take that first step, decide that this is what you want to do and move forward with it. It is very rewarding to me to be able to tell people that I earned an MBA and that I did it, especially being a first generation college student going into an undergraduate. And in my family, I'm the only person that has a master's degree. So that does make me feel proud. And I would encourage you to do what makes you feel proud.

Leslee Whetstone [00:10:55]:

If this is something that you want to do, take the time to do it. Being able to carve out your time, it can be difficult, but I feel like in the end, it is so rewarding and there are many benefits. It can help you grow within your current field. It can help you with better understanding who you are as a person, because the graduate programs are so different than the undergraduate programs, and it allows you to just explore who you are professionally and be able to move into new roles. It opens up so many doors. Definitely does open up many doors. And like you said, you're now in a leadership position. You can draw on that same experience.

Christopher Lewis [00:11:40]:

The learning that you have and that you gain from that graduate experience is going to be something that you're going to draw from for years after you get that degree as well. So it is an investment. It's an investment in yourself, an investment in your future. So I truly appreciate you sharing your journey, for sharing your experience, and I wish you all the best. Thank you so much. And thank you for inviting me to join you today. The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of Masters and doctorate programs. If you are interested in continuing your education, whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs.

Christopher Lewis [00:12:18]:

For more information on any of our graduate programs visit umflint.edu/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at [email protected].

In this episode of "Victors in Grad School," the host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, interviews Brittany Douglas, a physician assistant student at the University of Michigan Flint. The podcast focuses on the journey of students, alumni, and experts and how they find success in graduate school.

Brittany Douglas discusses her unique path to becoming a physician assistant. She initially worked as a surgical tech for 13 years and was inspired by the flexibility and variety of specialties that PAs can work in. Her experience in the operating room allowed her to build relationships with physicians and PAs, which motivated her to pursue a career in medicine.

The conversation delves into Brittany's decision to become a physician assistant over a doctor. She emphasizes the shorter duration of education and training, allowing her to enter her career sooner. Her desire for a career change led her to explore PA programs.

As a non-traditional student entering PA school at 29, Brittany discusses the advantages of her prior clinical experience and master's degree. She feels well-prepared for clinical rotations, particularly due to her familiarity with various medical procedures.

Brittany chose the University of Michigan Flint's PA program due to its strong emphasis on community service, outreach, and engagement. The program's focus on serving underserved communities aligned with her values.

She also describes her experience with a National Health Policy Fellowship and her work in advocating for healthcare policy changes. She shares her community advocacy project to educate PA students across Michigan about legislative topics related to their profession.

Brittany reflects on her graduate education and advises students to focus on foundational concepts such as physiology, anatomy, and pathophysiology. Understanding the root causes of diseases is crucial for success in medicine.

The episode concludes with a discussion of Brittany's future career goals, which include a potential focus on cardiac surgery and cardiac ICU management.

The host encourages listeners to explore the graduate programs offered by the University of Michigan Flint and emphasizes the importance of foundational knowledge for future success in graduate school. Contact information for further inquiries is provided.

This podcast is brought to you by The Office of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan-Flint. If you're still wondering about other things to consider when it comes to graduate school, you can also contact the Office of Graduate Programs at UM-Flint. We're here to answer questions Monday – Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. EST. You can also find out more about the 50+ programs that the university has to offer here.

TRANSCRIPT

You are a podcast editor. Take the following transcript from a podcast and create podcast notes in paragraph form for the episode.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:

Welcome to the Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Welcome back to Victors in grad school. I'm your host, dr. Christopher Lewis, director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week I love being able to sit down and talk with you about the journey that you're on. You could be at the very beginning just thinking about, do I want to do this grad school thing? You could be applying and knowing what you want to do, where you want to go, or some ideas of where you want to go. You could be in graduate school.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:45]:

But the thing that I love to talk with you about every week is how you find success in that graduate school journey. Because it is so important for you to be able to do whatever you can to be able to set yourself up right, to find success in that journey for yourself. Because that's why you're going through this. You want to be successful. You want to get that degree in the end and be able to take it, to hone your skills and take you into either that next step in your career, that new career, whatever it might be. And every week we bring you new guests, new people for you to learn from. All of these people have either gone through graduate school, are currently going through graduate school, and you have an opportunity to be able to learn and to grow from the experiences that they've had, know that no matter what area that they're in, they've had to do similar things. So whether they're in med school, law school, they're getting an MBA, the curricular aspects are going to be a little bit different, but there are a lot of similarities as well in what you have to do.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:53]:

So this week we've got another great guest with us. Brittany Douglas is with us and Brittany is a physician assistant student at the University of Michigan Flint. She is in her last year. So right now we're talking to her and she's on her clinical rotations right now, taking all those skills that she's been learning over the first two years in the program and putting them into practice. And I am excited to be able to hear her journey and for you to learn more from her. Brittany, thanks so much for being here today.

Brittany Douglas [00:02:22]:

Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:24]:

I love that we are able to sit down and chat. And I guess first and foremost, I want to turn the clock back in time. I want you to kind of reflect back because at some point, whether it was in high school or your undergrad or prior to undergrad in some way, you made a choice that you wanted to go and become a physician assistant. Talk to me about that journey. And what you did to be able to really set yourself on that path, because I know that you do have a kind of a unique journey in regard to becoming a surgical tech, even before you were in your undergraduate experience, and that continued on through undergrad and now into graduate school. So talk to me about the journey and what made you finally decide that you wanted to become a physician assistant.

Brittany Douglas [00:03:17]:

Yeah, so I completed my surgical technology program in 2011. So 13 years that I've been a technologist, going on 13 years. I still work on the weekends, even in PA school, which is kind of outrageous, but I absolutely loved being in the or. I still love it all the different variety of cases and working in the Ors. I got to develop relationships with physicians and different specialties, of course, but always Pas. I see Pas in almost every specialty, and I love the flexibility of the degree. I love that they can go into any subspecialty they like, and if they start off in one and it's not for them, or they want to try something different, they can, and so they move into a different one. And I just really appreciated that.

Brittany Douglas [00:04:00]:

And I love the relationships that Pas develop, both preoperatively intraoperatively and post operatively. They really knew the patients inside and out, and I think it was great to see how they built upon their relationship with them continuing, just speaking surgically. So for me, I was inspired by that, to continue to pursue medicine. So that's what inspired me to be a PA.

Christopher Lewis [00:04:24]:

So one of the things that I think sometimes people think of when they're going through their undergrad is they may go in thinking, I want to be a doctor, and then at some point, they learn about becoming a physician, nor they've known about it, and they choose that path instead. I don't know if at any point if you struggled with that decision, and if so, what made you decide that physician assistant was the route that you wanted to go versus going down the route of medical school and maybe becoming a surgeon in that regard?

Brittany Douglas [00:04:59]:

Yeah, absolutely. It's definitely something that I had to sit down with myself and have a conversation and be like, which is the better path for me? And so I already have a master's degree in biology, and I worked in pharmaceutical research. I was around the age of 29 when I started to debate, like, what do I want to go back to school for? I definitely want to be more involved with medicine. I really miss that aspect of my life. And for me, I really appreciate the flexibility, again with Pas being able to go into multiple subspecialties and also being a nontraditional student. I was 29 when I applied. So that being said, I didn't really want to do four years of medical school, five years of residency, a fellowship, and really be like 40 years old when I'm starting my career. So the shorter duration of education and training for Pas was also appealing to me.

Christopher Lewis [00:05:46]:

You talk about the fact that when you started your program, you're 29 years old, you didn't want to wait until you were 40. But as a 29 year old, you have a mixture of individuals in your program. Talk to me about that and what it's like to be maybe a little bit older in the program and also having a lot more experience coming into a PA program and how that's helped you in the program itself.

Brittany Douglas [00:06:14]:

I think my background certainly helps me, right. Because I've been in the procedures. I've seen several of these procedures where a lot of people, they'll hear a cole cystectomy and they kind of have to imagine what that looks like. And I've done hundreds and hundreds of them. And so it's definitely an advantage in that aspect that when we're learning about these different things interoperatively that I have, that kind of roundabout. However, the medication management and the longevity management of these patients as a surgical tech, that's not something I experienced. So I still continue to learn. Don't get me wrong, there's so much involved with PA school.

Brittany Douglas [00:06:50]:

But I think that being 29, having a prior career, having lots and lots of clinical patient contact hours served me in a great way. That when you're learning. About medication management plans or you're learning a patient is presenting with appendicitis or colysystitis. I know in my mind what these procedures look like for these patients and the recovery for them.

Christopher Lewis [00:07:09]:

Now, I mentioned that you are a third year student at the University of Michigan Flint. So you went through your undergraduate work down in South Carolina. You got your bachelor's degree, you went and got a master's degree in biology. You had that career. At some point, you made that decision that, yep, I'm going to be making that next switch, becoming a physician assistant. And there's many physician assistant programs that are out there, not only in Michigan, but throughout the United States. You were living in other states and had a lot of different experiences. Talk to me about why you chose to attend the University of Michigan Flint.

Brittany Douglas [00:07:51]:

Yeah, this is one of my favorite questions. I'm from Michigan, but I lived in South Carolina, I lived in Florida, and I did research in New Jersey for about two years and then applying to PA schools. I wanted to be very cognizant of community service is very important to me. So especially knowing that Pas right now are making such an impact in underserved and rural communities. So finding a program that was tailored to that, that really leverages the importance of giving back to the community, community service, outrage, engagement, those things adversity. It's very important. And so University of Flint's program, university of Michigan Flint's program really, really stood out to me in that aspect. Right.

Brittany Douglas [00:08:30]:

We do all kinds of work locally, but we also do things just for the children in the community. We go to Sylvester Broom Empowerment Village, and during your Didactic year, you'll go there quite often and get to interact with the kids and build a relationship with them. And I think that it's so important to remember the community that you serve. So of course, being a Michigan native, I know that Flint is an underserved community. It seemed like a win win for me.

Christopher Lewis [00:08:56]:

Now, you found success in your graduate school journey. What did you have to do, seeing that you already had one master's, you had a career as well prior to coming in, but what did you really have to do for yourself to be able to set yourself up for success in the program? But also, what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the program?

Brittany Douglas [00:09:17]:

100% time management is really important. And being a prior graduate student, I had kind of honed in on what study techniques work best for me. And the way that you study in graduate school is much different than the way you study in undergrad. In graduate school, you're expected to do some self study. You're expected to kind of delve into topics that you don't necessarily get a good sound on while you're in lecture and in undergrad, they're a little bit more diligent about making sure that you understand these topics with homework assignments and things like that versus in a graduate program. Here's the information. This is what you need to know. And you do an examination to test your level, like your metric of understanding.

Brittany Douglas [00:09:52]:

So time management is invaluable, and I think that really honing in on what study techniques are the most productive for you, whether you're auditory or visual. Do you rewrite notes? Are charts helpful? Do videos help you? And again, I tell a lot of students, don't rely heavily on ten different sources. Sometimes that's almost a disadvantage. Too much information from too many different places can be more confusing. Try to find one or two things that work really well for you. Focus on those and leverage them that way.

Christopher Lewis [00:10:21]:

I know that recently you were also awarded a National Health Policy Fellowship, and that was big news. So tell me about this fellowship and what that means for you and what that means for your future career.

Brittany Douglas [00:10:37]:

Health Policy Fellowship really focuses on different health care bills or laws that need to be put in place to better provide care to our patients. Whether that's affordability, whether that's accessibility, whether it's limitations on the way Pas can prescribe. Kind of a silly thing. I'll bring up for an example Pas. We manage diabetic patients, we manage their medications, we order labs to manage their diabetes. But interestingly, we're not allowed to certify that they need diabetic shoes, which is kind of a silly thing, right? So those types of things and what Health Policy Fellowship does is it teaches you how to meet with these different lawmakers, how to meet with their staff, and how to get these bills kind of put in motion. Again, community service is really important to me. And so seeing the deficits in the community, how can we improve effectiveness, cost, how can we lower the cost for patient care and increase accessibility for patients? All of these things are like the key components of what bills in a bill, like being, whether it's with the House or like the Senate, either way, moving these bills up so that we can get them passed.

Christopher Lewis [00:11:41]:

I know as a part of that program, you attended a workshop recently on policy and advocacy. But you also, as a part of that, were developing a community advocacy project that you're working on. Talk to me about that and what you learned as a part of that workshop and what you are planning to do as a part of your project.

Brittany Douglas [00:12:03]:

So the workshop, we went over several different bills. We went over different things that are currently being talked about, things that they're trying to propenciate, like into law. I actually went to Capitol Hill in Lansing and did some advocacy work there with some local senators and delegates. And then I went to Washington DC just two weeks ago and met with Staffords From, Debbie Stabenog, Gary Peters, Dan Kilde, which is like Genesee County, met with all of them to discuss these same bills with them and express the importance and how these can prove to be an advantage overall for patient care. That's the most important thing. So I have a really cool project, and it's hard because I can't give you all the details just yet, but I am actively working with some great leaders and people in the health policy arena as far as like, legislative topics for physician assistance. And I'm developing a way for all eleven PA schools. There's eleven PA schools in Michigan that matriculate over 500 PA students annually.

Brittany Douglas [00:12:57]:

And I think that it's really a missed market because being a new PA student, you don't necessarily understand what laws are being passed or what restrictions there are in practice, different obstacles or challenges that we can incur in practice. And so this is kind of going to be a group where students from all of these schools can get together and learn, what are the restrictions, what can I do to get involved, how do I make a change, how do I impact my community in a positive way?

Christopher Lewis [00:13:20]:

So you are out on your clinicals right now, and you're seeing that light at the end of the tunnel. So I guess two questions. First and foremost, you're on your clinicals and you're utilizing what you've learned in the classroom over the last two years. How do you feel? Do you feel prepared? Are you ready for the work that you're doing? Or are there pieces that you're like, I wish I had known this prior to being in the clinical time, and then also as you think about your future, where are you headed?

Brittany Douglas [00:13:51]:

Yeah, so I think Didactic year, which is your year with your books, that's the year you sit down and you learn all the materials. When you're in Didactic year, you learn it in modules. So cardiac, pulmonary, GI. And so when you learn them broken up in segments like that, you're really kind of mastering that one particular topic. When you go into clinical year, you have to take all the information that you've learned and really tie it all together. How do I manage these patients? How do I help this person? And that's really important to translate it that way that you can't look at it like, oh, my textbook says this because all patients look different, right? So I feel unbelievably well prepared. Like, I do really well sitting down with patients and developing management plans and building rapport with them and really kind of delving deep into getting to know them better. I think the program has done an excellent job of preparing me for clinical rotations.

Brittany Douglas [00:14:38]:

Where do I think I'm going to go from here? I did my elective in cardiothoracic surgery. I really enjoyed that. It's pretty challenging. And cardiac ICU management is, of course, very challenging, and I'm heavily considering that option in my future.

Christopher Lewis [00:14:51]:

Well, with 13 years of experience in surge tech experience, I would guess that that makes a lot of sense that taking all that experience, the training that you've had in the past, and the years of patient care that you've been able to have and put it into the next level makes perfect sense. Now, as you look back at your graduate education, and I said it could be looking back at the biology degree now, your physician assistant degree, I'm sure that there are things that, as you look back, you say to yourself, if I had only known. And as you think about that, what are some tips that you might offer to other students, whether they're going into a biology degree, a business degree, a physician assistant degree, whatever it might be that would help them to find success sooner?

Brittany Douglas [00:15:40]:

I would really put emphasis on the foundational concepts when I say that. I mean, like physiology, to understand the root cause, what is going on on a cellular or a molecular level for these people. This goes back to my molecular degree. Right, but that's okay. When you start with a foundational, a really strong foundation, I understand what's happening on a cellular level with this patient's disease process. It allows you so much better to be like, oh, that's why these treatment plans work for these patients. Or, oh, that's why there's a contraindication for this medication and this patient population. And so if you don't have that basis of understanding whether it's in anything, especially medicine, if you're missing that really basic level of understanding of biology concepts, you're kind of at a disadvantage because medicine cannot be mastered with memorization.

Brittany Douglas [00:16:30]:

You have to understand what is happening, what is the pathophysiology. I definitely put emphasis on pathophysiology anatomy. Anatomy is another one and really put in focus. And I know sometimes when you're sitting in these classes, you're like, oh, wow, this is super in depth. When I look at this. Do you really need to understand that? I remember learning about the cardiac cycle and thinking, do you really need to know all these things? Yes, you do. In order to clinically practice medicine, there's a lot of things to focus on, and I would say the more time you spend with those foundational concepts and really, really mastering them, you're only setting yourself up for success.

Christopher Lewis [00:17:06]:

Well, Brittany, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for everything that you've shared today. And I am looking forward to learning more about your success post PA school because I know that there is a ton of opportunities that await you beyond our program. And I just want to say thank you for being here today and for sharing this journey with us.

Brittany Douglas [00:17:29]:

Thank you so much for your time. I love sharing this. So happy to answer any questions.

Christopher Lewis [00:17:33]:

The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs. If you are interested in continuing your education, whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit our website to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at [email protected].

Welcome to the Victors in Grad School podcast, this week we interview Chip Evans, the Assistant Director of Disability Services at the University of Michigan-Flint. We explore Chip's own graduate school journey, discuss accommodations for graduate students with disabilities, and offer valuable insights on succeeding in graduate education.

Chip Evans starts by emphasizing the importance of embracing each student's unique journey in graduate school. The goal is success, and there are various ways to achieve it, with the right preparation.

The podcast is structured to feature guests who share their own graduate school experiences and resources to help listeners navigate their academic journeys. Chip Evans, as an Assistant Director of Disability Services, provides valuable insights into the accommodations available for students with disabilities in graduate programs.

Dr. Lewis and Chip delve into Chip's own journey, starting with his background in computer information systems during his undergraduate degree. He shares how working on campus as an undergraduate student, especially as a tutor, sparked his interest in higher education. This eventually led him to pursue a graduate degree in educational leadership, which opened doors to various roles in higher education, including disability services.

Chip's transition from in-person undergraduate programs to an entirely online format for his graduate studies is highlighted. The key adjustment for him was effective time management due to the flexibility and self-paced nature of online education.

The conversation then focuses on how Chip's graduate degree prepared him for his current role. The program provided him with a broader understanding of higher education, faculty evaluation, budgeting, and the inner workings of institutions, enabling him to communicate effectively with university leadership.

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing disability services in graduate education. Chip points out that, for the most part, the services offered to graduate and undergraduate students are quite similar, particularly concerning testing accommodations, note-taking assistance, and accessible materials. The discussion also addresses the stigmas and misconceptions surrounding disability services.

Chip highlights the need for open conversations and breaking the stigma around disabilities. The podcast suggests that disabilities should be seen as neutral and not as something that makes someone less capable. Education should be accessible to everyone.

The episode provides advice for students pursuing graduate education, emphasizing the importance of knowing and utilizing available resources, even if you don't require accommodations. It's crucial to understand that seeking assistance when needed is not a sign of weakness. Graduate programs are challenging, and it's okay to ask for help and support.

The podcast wraps up by mentioning the diverse graduate programs offered by the University of Michigan Flint and encourages students to explore their educational options. Dr. Lewis reminds listeners that they're on the journey to become "Victors in Grad School" and that he looks forward to accompanying them through their graduate school experiences.

This episode of "Victors in Grad School" provides valuable insights into graduate school experiences, the accommodations available for students with disabilities, and the importance of open dialogue and eliminating stigmas surrounding disabilities in higher education. Chip Evans' own journey is an inspiring example of how one can find success in graduate school.

This podcast is brought to you by The Office of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan-Flint. If you're still wondering about other things to consider when it comes to graduate school, you can also contact the Office of Graduate Programs at UM-Flint. We're here to answer questions Monday – Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. EST. You can also find out more about the 50+ programs that the university has to offer here. TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:02]:

Welcome to the Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Christopher Lewis

Welcome back to Victors in grad school. I'm your host, dr. Christopher Lewis, director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. And as always, every week, I love being able to sit down with you, to work with you, to talk with you about the journey that you're on, because every person's journey is just a little bit different. And it's important to be able to look at this no matter where you are in the journey, to be able to identify things that you can do right from the get go, to prepare yourself to be successful throughout graduate school. All of us want to be successful. All of us want that experience in grad school where you're going to be successful and there's lots of different things that you can do to be able to do just that.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:00]:

This podcast has been set up so that every week I bring on great guests, people that have had different experiences themselves in their own graduate experiences. But beyond that, many of them have resources or other things that they can share with you to be able to help you in this journey that you're on this week. We've got another great guest with us today. Chip Evans is with us today and he's the Assistant Director of Disability Services at the University of Michigan Flint. We're going to be talking to him about his own graduate school journey, but also about some of the things that you may need to think about, especially if you may need some accommodation during graduate school and also things that people might forget about as they're thinking about graduate school as well. Chip, thanks so much for being here today.

Chip Evans [00:01:48]:

Thank you, Chris. Thanks for having me. I appreciate you giving me some time to talk about this important topic and I'd like to share everything I can.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:55]:

I really appreciate you being here. And I think first and foremost, I'd love to learn a little more about your own graduate school experience, because I know you did your undergraduate and graduate degrees at Baker College, and at some point you went through you got your bachelor's degree in computer information systems. And at some point during that journey, you decided, I need to go further. I want to go further. What was it that made you decide that you wanted to go to graduate school?

Chip Evans [00:02:22]:

So for me it was my career path. When I was an undergraduate student, I worked on campus as a student worker. I was a tutor in our learning support center and that gave me an opportunity to meet a lot of the staff, the deans, the instructors and make those connections there. And I really liked that environment. I really wanted to kind of pursue a career in higher education, and that's kind of what led me to that. So while I was working as a tutor in undergraduates, when I graduated, I had the opportunity to teach some classes as well once I finished up my undergraduate and do some other things within that. And that led to a position as an academic advisor, which is kind of like my introduction into kind of the higher education career. And that's kind of where I got into disability services as well.

Chip Evans [00:03:09]:

I was the first academic advisor at Baker College in Allen Park downriver campus that was just growing at the time. And as with a lot of smaller campuses, you wear a lot of different hats. So I believe it was my second day in the job. They're like, oh, by the way, we're going to have you work with disabled students as well. So that was kind of my introduction there. And just working through that path, I was like, okay, really for this graduate degree would really be beneficial in not only understanding the field in general of higher education, but being able to move up the ladder and have different opportunities. So that's what led me to pursuing my graduate degree.

Christopher Lewis [00:03:45]:

You got through that graduate degree. You found success in that graduate school journey. And there a lot of times is a transition that you have to go through as you go from your undergraduate work to your graduate work, even if you stay at the same institution. So what did you have to do to be able to set yourself up for success and what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout your graduate school journey?

Chip Evans [00:04:06]:

So, for me, the big change was the environment. An undergraduate, it was mostly an in person program, a few online classes. My graduate degree was 100% online, and I was working at the time, so I really was looking for that. That was the opportunity I was looking for because it offered the flexibility that I could work on my classwork when I was able to. I didn't have to spend the entire evening in a classroom once or twice a week. So I like that online environment, and that was the biggest change in that. I did have quite a gap between my undergraduate and my graduate, so it wasn't quite as much of a shock because I was working during that time and being again in the higher education realm, I had an understanding of it. But that was the big changes is just going from that in person environment to the entirely online where you are very much being at a self pace. You have to make sure you're maintaining things and setting up your own boundaries. And there's not like that classroom time to build around. You have to kind of do that on your own.

Christopher Lewis [00:05:01]:

So let's delve a little bit deeper into that. So as you said, you had some definite transitions, some things that you had to do to be able to shift that mindset, to get out of the in person mentality? What did you have to do to be able to do that? Because so many graduate programs right now are online, and when you're transitioning from that in person learning to online learning, as you said, there is a different way of thinking, a different way of doing. What did you have to do to be able to do that for yourself?

Chip Evans [00:05:29]:

I think a big part of it was time management. Being able to set time aside for classwork and being mindful of that. I think you have to do that a lot more with online learning than you do with in person, because you have to be able to make sure you're participating in things and getting things done. You can do it on your time, but you want to make sure you're being personal. You're doing it on purpose and making sense time aside just for that. So that's the one thing that I found to be helpful, is I set time aside just to work on that. That was what I was doing. Sometimes there were things rushing at the end, but being able to get things done in time and meeting those deadlines, I think that was really one of the big changes for me, is just that time management part of it.

Christopher Lewis [00:06:09]:

You did your undergraduate work in computer science. You moved into a master's degree in educational leadership. As you look at the work that you did in your undergrad, the work that you did in your graduate work, now that you've completed that Master's degree, how do you feel that that graduate degree prepared you for the work that you're doing on a daily basis?

Chip Evans [00:06:29]:

Working on higher ed, it gave me more of an insight of the institution overall. A lot of the coursework was focused on faculty evaluation and budgeting and kind of the overall operations of an institution. It gave me that aspect that I don't see on a regular basis during my day to day job and that it was able to inform me of why decisions are made. Been able to inform me of when I prepare things that I feel need to be done, that I know how to present them in a way that would make sense to leadership and would fit their goals and their needs. So I think that's really combined well with what I do because it gave me that deeper mindset of what it takes to run a college or university.

Christopher Lewis [00:07:12]:

Now you are working in disability services. You work with students that are needing accommodations at the undergraduate the graduate level. You're working with them to traverse higher education and figure out what is going to help them define success in that journey. And you talked about the fact that you started as an undergraduate student working on campus and helping on campus and wanted to stay in that talk to me about what led you into wanting to work in disability services? What was it about that specific area that really drew you in and made you want to make a career out of that?

Chip Evans [00:07:48]:

So, like I mentioned, working at smaller campuses like I was, you wear a lot of different hats, and disability services was one of the hats I was wearing at the time. Some of the other ones was tutoring, learning support, academic advising. I was in charge of a library for a while, so wore a lot of different hats at a lot of different times. But disability services to me was always the most interesting because each situation, each student you work with presented a different challenge, a different situation. Even students with the same diagnosis, it could affect them very differently. So it was never the same thing. Nothing was ever cookie cutter with it. So it presented the biggest challenge with that and also the biggest rewards, because then you could work with someone who may need help and may need just kind of that guidance into navigating the higher education system and you can provide that and see those effects. So to me, it was always the most interesting. I always liked the legal aspect to it. I like the way technology has really guided the field and having an undergraduate in technology has really helped with that. So to me it was always the most interesting. So that's why I wanted to continue down that route and pursue the disability services area.

Christopher Lewis [00:08:56]:

So talking about students that you work with currently or students that you've worked with in the past, as you go through your undergraduate experience, many students will tie into the needs that they have, and sometimes they bring that from high school. As I've worked with graduate students, I've seen that sometimes graduate students pull back and don't always ask for what they need. Have you found that to be true? And if so, why are you seeing that?

Chip Evans [00:09:26]:

You definitely do see that. I think a big part of that is the stigma associated with being disabled, with disabilities, with mental health that present challenges to people too. Just to say, this is what I need, these are the challenges I'm encountering, this underlying condition affected with that, and what can we do to assist with that? So I think that stigma is a big part of it, that we're still fighting. It is getting better, I would say. I would notice, really, since the return to campus from COVID a lot more students have been more forthcoming with that and are more willing to ask for help, which is encouraging. But I think that stigma is still there. I still hear from a lot of students, they don't want people to think less of them for requesting accommodation. So that's something we have to work on.

Chip Evans [00:10:10]:

And just look at really, the identity of being disabled, that there's lots of non apparent disabilities at all levels. Me and myself, I have non apparent disabilities and I see that it's again through all different levels, all different levels of students, and all throughout campus, every department, every area, I see disabled students involved in. And it might not be apparent, but it's important to know in combating that stigma, is that it is a normal thing. It's not a good thing, it's not a bad thing, it's just a thing. And there are tools in place that can help you if your environment is making it so you can't access everything.

Christopher Lewis [00:10:45]:

The way you should as you're thinking about graduate school. And maybe you did have services when you were going through undergrad. How do services for graduate students differ? Or how are they the same when it comes to looking at the types of services that students can access, really.

Chip Evans [00:11:03]:

Between undergraduate and graduate, they are very much the same. Most of the graduate students I see fit into one or two different situations. Either they've used accommodations in undergraduate, they know exactly what they need and they just say, look, this is what I had, here's what I need, this is what worked for me. And great, we put those into place. And then the other situation is students that didn't use accommodations previously, they had other coping mechanisms, maybe they didn't need an accommodation, but now they're finding out in graduate school that just requires a little bit deeper thought. I wouldn't say it's necessarily harder, it's just a different way of thinking and you think a little bit deeper into things and they're like, look, I can do this, I'm just running out of time on my exam, or things in the classroom are distracting me and I'm not able to focus on it. So those are when we look at kind of the new accommodations to put into place. But a lot of times those are very similar to what someone would get in undergraduate as well.

Chip Evans [00:11:59]:

There's still the testing accommodations, which are most popular ones, extended testing time, a distraction, reduced testing area. We offer Notetaking assistance and we have technology of software programs that can assist students in taking notes and recording lectures and matching that up with different Notetaking solutions, accessing printed materials. So those are really the big categories and really they're very similar to undergraduate. So it's just determining again, in how the individual is affected by an individual student and then what accommodations we can put into place for that.

Christopher Lewis [00:12:32]:

Now there are times that individuals may not have used services in undergrad and find that the increased rigor, the different way of education, brings up things that maybe they dealt with in high school, or maybe they have to go and get some testing to figure out what's going on because of the differences as well. If someone is finding that they're struggling and they are thinking, I'm going to get some testing, if they want to move forward to consider getting accommodations at a university campus. What are some of the steps, or what are the steps that a student typically has to follow? What do they need to provide to a campus to be able to be considered for those accommodations?

Chip Evans [00:13:23]:

So I think the first step would be to have a conversation with the disability services office because the needs for the institution could vary greatly. Like me personally here at U of Influent, I like to listen to the students experience, particularly with a graduate student, because there is a high level of academic success there previously through their undergraduate. So once they get to that level, they know themselves more than anybody else is going had, especially if they had an early diagnosis, maybe they had an IEP in high school or was diagnosed with ADHD when they were younger. Let's have that conversation for testing before you invest time or money into that, let's have a conversation. Let's see if there's enough background there that we could provide accommodations without anything additional. Because again, their experience is going to be most important to me in that process. Because if they said, hey undergraduate, I was fine. I may have taken the whole time to take an exam, but I was able to finish in time.

Chip Evans [00:14:19]:

These are my coping mechanisms that I had, these are the tools that I use. But it's just not quite working now with that extra rigor, with that different way of thinking, I just need a little bit more time for things, or I just want to make sure that I get a more thorough set of notes because I may not have needed to take notes previously I was able to memorize things. So let's have that conversation first and see what we can do, and we'll help you determine a plan from there. If further testing would be beneficial, we can help you go that route. But if we're able to do accommodations with what you have, always like to use what the students already have, and then base accommodations based on that, great, we can start with that.

Christopher Lewis [00:14:56]:

Is there anything that students are misinformed about that typically you're having to reframe, that you're having to have them think about in a different way, that you're constantly getting in your office, that students should know now before they run into that same situation.

Chip Evans [00:15:16]:

I think the main thing is just going back to that stigma, that thought that being disabled makes you less than, that's not true. It's just part of who you are. It's not a good thing, it's not a bad thing, it's neutral. It just means that in some situations there may be barriers created that you're not able to access everything. So you need accommodations for that or some different, ideally change the environment so those barriers aren't there. But in the meantime, there may be things we put into place. So I think that's the main thing. It's just, again, that stigma associated with disabilities or with mental health conditions. That is not a bad thing. It's just part of who we are. I think that the latest statistics is about 27% of the US. Population has some type of disability. So it's the largest minority group. It's one that anybody can become part of at any time. So there's lots of people out there in that same situation and it's just a matter of determining what's going to be best for them. So I think that's probably the main key to keep in mind.

Christopher Lewis [00:16:17]:

You've given a number of pieces of advice, things that you've thought of in regard to your own experience, things that you've experienced with students that work with you on a regular basis as we finish up today. As you look back at your own graduate education and maybe the experiences that you've had in sitting down and talking with other graduate students along your experience, what are some tips that you might offer to others considering graduate education that will help them find success sooner?

Chip Evans [00:16:47]:

I think one, knowing your resources, knowing those departments that are there to help you if you do have a previous disability or have a diagnosis. Knowing what services are there, even if you don't want to put those into place yet. Just knowing that it's there. Knowing, like the writing center, any tutoring assistance, any writing assistance that's available that is there and how to access it and be willing to use it if need be. There's no shame in asking for help when you need it because graduate programs can get rigorous, they do require some deeper thought and it can be a challenge that's the whole idea of it is to challenge yourself and to grow. And sometimes a little bit of assistance is needed and that's okay.

Christopher Lewis [00:17:28]:

Well, Chip, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for everything that you do to support students here at the University of Michigan Flint. But also thank you for sharing your own experience and the journey that you went on and sharing some of the experiences that you've had with other graduate students that can help individuals that may need accommodations or may not in setting the tone and setting the trajectory for themselves on how they can prepare to find success sooner. I really appreciate your time today and I appreciate you being here.

Chip Evans [00:17:58]:

Thanks for having me. It was a great time.

Christopher Lewis [00:18:00]:

The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs. If you are interested in continuing your education, whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit Graduate programs to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at [email protected].

In this episode of Victors in Grad School podcast, we discuss the importance of strategic preparation for graduate school with guest Helen Budd, the Program Manager for the Student Veterans Resource Center at the University of Michigan, Flint. Helen shares her own educational journey, highlighting her transition from a Bachelor of Business Administration (BBA) to a Master of Business Administration (MBA) and, later, a Master of Public Administration (MPA). She emphasizes the value of using employer benefits and resources.

Key Points Discussed:

1. Preparing for Graduate School: Helen describes her journey, explaining how she moved to the United States with diplomas from England, only to realize they held no equivalency. To find gainful employment, she worked at Cleary University, where she ultimately pursued her bachelor's degree.
2. Choosing the Right Path: Helen's decision to pursue a Master of Business Administration (MBA) arose from her employer's tuition waiver program and her commitment to using the benefits available to her. She later shifted her focus to nonprofit management, aligning her studies with her passion for service.
3. Success in Grad School: To succeed in graduate school, Helen underscores the importance of setting priorities, utilizing resources such as university libraries and online tools like Purdue Owl. She also recommends seeking guidance from instructors, advisors, and fellow students.
4. Overcoming Impostor Syndrome: Helen experienced some self-doubt when transitioning to her second master's degree. However, through encouragement from mentors and a thorough examination of her capabilities, she decided to move forward with confidence.
5. Benefits and Challenges for Veterans: Helen identifies the potential challenges veterans and military-connected students face when returning to school after a gap. She advises students to consider their priorities, such as using housing allowance payments, and to gradually adapt to the academic environment.
6. Reaching Out for Support: Helen highlights the importance of seeking help and not hesitating to ask questions, as military culture can sometimes discourage seeking assistance. Students are encouraged to contact the appropriate department coordinators for guidance.
7. Support for Military-Connected Individuals: Helen emphasizes that resources like the Veterans Readiness and Employment benefit and veteran support services are available for military-connected individuals. These services can help students navigate their education.
8. Selecting the Right Program: Research is crucial when choosing the right graduate program. Students must ensure that their desired major and program align with their goals and are approved for VA education benefits.
9. VA Approval and Elective Courses: Helen cautions students against taking courses that are not required for their program, as the VA will only cover essential coursework. Ensuring the courses you take apply to your degree is vital.

Conclusion: This podcast episode explores the importance of strategic preparation for graduate school, taking into account benefits, program selection, and available resources for military-connected individuals. Helen Budd's journey and insights serve as valuable guidance for prospective graduate students.

This podcast is brought to you by The Office of Graduate programs at the University of Michigan-Flint. If you're still wondering about other things to consider when it comes to graduate school, you can also contact the Office of Graduate Programs at UM-Flint. We're here to answer questions Monday – Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. EST. You can also find out more about the 50+ programs that the university has to offer here.

TRANSCRIPT

Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]:

Welcome to the Victors in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school. Welcome back to Victors in grad school. I'm your host, dr. Christopher Lewis, director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week I love talking to you because each one of your journeys is just a little bit different. And it's so important to be able to think very strategically about what you're doing to prepare yourself for that educational journey that you either may already be on. You may be thinking about and you're preparing about.

Christopher Lewis [00:00:43]:

Every person goes through something just a little bit different. So whether you're going to law school, med school, you're getting an MBA, you're going to become a vet, no matter what it is, there are some specific things that you're going to have to do to get into those programs. But more holistically, there are things that every grad student must think about and can do to prepare themselves well to find success in that graduate school journey. And that's what this show is all about. This show is all about allowing you to be able to learn from others. Because every week I bring you different guests, different people that have gone before you that have had that experience of going to graduate school, are working with graduate students, or have had some other experience that will help you to find success in that journey. Today we've got another great guest with us. Helen Bud is with us.

Christopher Lewis [00:01:40]:

And Helen is the program manager for the Student Veterans Resource Center at the University of Michigan, Flint. And we're going to be talking with her about her own educational journey, but we're also going to talk about veterans and things that veterans need to be thinking about if they are planning to go to grad school. So we're going to be talking about that as well. Helen, thanks so much for joining us today.

Helen Budd [00:02:04]:

Thank you for having me today.

Christopher Lewis [00:02:06]:

It is my pleasure having you here. I love being able to talk to different people. I know that in your own educational journey, you went through a you started your degree at Cleary University, got your BBA at Cleary, and at some point during that time that you were at Cleary, you made a decision to go on. You went on from the bachelor's at Cleary to a master's degree, an MBA at Cleary. And as you were thinking about that, talk to me about what was going through your head as you made that decision that you wanted to go further and you wanted to get that graduate degree.

Helen Budd [00:02:46]:

Well, I'm going to go back a few years. Obviously, I'm not from this country. Originally, I had completed a couple of Royal Society of Arts diplomas when I lived in England, one of them as a bilingual secretary in French and one for international trade in German, both considered to be degree level diplomas. Long story short, I moved to the US and I quickly learned that those diplomas actually meant nothing over here. There was no equivalent. And in order to succeed in the US. And to get gainful employment in the US, I had to do something about it. I started working at Cleary University in 2000 as the graduate programs assistant.

Helen Budd [00:03:39]:

It was our inaugural MBA, so I was in it from the ground up, which was quite exciting, and it was a part time position. I eventually got to full time started my bachelor's journey at the university. You make choices, and I'm always a believer in using the benefits that your employer offers. So I used the tuition waiver program at Cleary, completed my bachelor's degree as a single parent, nontraditional student. Midnight spent in front of the computer, you know how it goes. And I graduated in 2005 with my bachelor's degree. I was going to start my master's degree right away, and I realized that I didn't really want to go into a business environment as such or manufacturing. And the only option at the time was the standard MBA.

Helen Budd [00:04:43]:

So I waited a year or two until we offered, or Cleary offered, the nonprofit management concentration. For me, that was an instant fit because of the work that I was already doing with our student veterans at Cleary and the fact that I have more of a service minded perspective than I do money making or operations at manufacturing. So the nonprofit degree was really the right choice for me. And I was at Cleary for 13 years. The perfect position opened up at U of M Flint, where I was able to focus just on our military connected students. That was my, and still is my passion. And I love what I do every single day. So it was a perfect fit for me.

Helen Budd [00:05:33]:

I applied for it, got the job, and I've been here ever since 2013.

Christopher Lewis [00:05:38]:

Now, you got here in 2013 during that time, and after a few years in, you made a decision to continue your education and you decided to work to get another master's degree. What made you decide to continue and to build upon the MBA that you already had?

Helen Budd [00:06:00]:

Oh, given the environment that I'm in, again, I wanted to focus more on the governmental and public administration factors that the MBA that I had done wasn't as focused on as the MPA here. So I looked at the curriculum. I didn't do it right away because it had been a few years since I had written anything in APA format that initially terrified me. The second thing was, am I good enough to get a master's degree from the University of Michigan? That was the other thing. I took a very careful look at that and then what changed my mind is that again, looking at employer benefits, I'm a big advocate of using the benefits that your employer offers, a huge advocate for that. And I looked at the MPA curriculum, I said, this suits me down to the ground. So I applied and I got all my references and everything because the work I had done for my MBA, looking back on it was incredibly challenging. It was not easy work.

Helen Budd [00:07:10]:

It was very difficult in some cases with the financial management and statistics. It wasn't an easy course by any means. So my decision was, if I can handle that, I'm definitely going to throw my hat in the ring and give this a whirl and see how it goes. Take one class at a time and then just go into it gently, get back into APA format and get back into the academic environment again and graduated two years later. And it was so worth it because I met so many great people during this program. I loved it and it suits me down to the ground because I was able to focus a lot of my coursework towards my job. And that was another reason for choosing the MPA, because I could apply it directly to my work here in the Student Veterans Resource Center and to serving my students for you.

Christopher Lewis [00:08:10]:

You said you were a non traditional student as you went through your Bachelor's, your first Master's, your second Master's, and through each of those steps, there were things that you had to do to be able to find success in those journeys. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success and what did you have to do to maintain that success? Throughout graduate school, I had to set.

Helen Budd [00:08:33]:

My priorities, make sure that I spent the appropriate amount of time on the research, the reading, using the resources that were available to me. For instance, here at, um, Flint, the library and the Purdue Owl website were my saving graces, because without those, it would have been a huge challenge. First of all, I'm older. Secondly, I'm not as technically advanced as I would have liked to be. And using those online resources and on campus resources, of course, were so helpful that I couldn't have done it without it. My first course I took the time to use the library. I must have texted them like ten times a week with questions about formatting and citations that I'd forgotten from the last ten years or so since I had completed my Master's. So using the resources, consulting with my advisor and speaking with my instructors was extremely helpful and getting the feedback from my classmates as well, definitely using the resources.

Helen Budd [00:09:51]:

The library is incredible. We have such a wonderful selection of thousands and thousands of articles and journals and everything that you could possibly want, and it is all available without having to pay for subscriptions and everything. So there's one thing I would definitely say use that library and the online resources, because they will get you through it.

Christopher Lewis [00:10:17]:

One of the things you mentioned just a little bit ago was the fact that when you transitioned into the new graduate degree at the University of Michigan Flint, the Master's of Public Administration, prior to applying and deciding to do that, there was some impostor syndrome that was creeping in. How did you get past that and push yourself to be able to get past that, to be able to then make the choice to go into that.

Helen Budd [00:10:44]:

Program, you had to do some soul searching. Realized that I'm surrounded. By some of the best academia and best staff members here in the university. And I have incredible support from everybody that I knew here. And I took a good look at myself and talked to some of my former faculty at Cleary and they said, Are you kidding? You can do this. This is going to be a breeze. You've managed to get through your MBA. What are you talking about? You're perfect for this.

Helen Budd [00:11:18]:

So I went to the head and beaten to the fire and let's just do this and not look back. But I do look back. You have to look back and be retrospective and see where you came from and where you're going forward, because not every job lasts forever. I would love to think this one would. Who knows? I'm very happy where I am and I've got no plans to leave anybody here. I love what I do, where I do it. There are always things that happen, as we know, in government and administration. You just don't know where you're going to end up.

Helen Budd [00:11:58]:

So arming myself with a second master's degree from the University of Michigan Rackham School of Graduate Studies has put me in greater competitive standing in the future and in my current endeavors, can't beat it. I'm just so pleased that I did it.

Christopher Lewis [00:12:17]:

So you've completed your degrees. You're still working at the University of Michigan Flint. How do you feel that the graduate degrees that you received prepared you for the work that you do on a daily basis?

Helen Budd [00:12:29]:

Well, there are so many things. We could be here for hours. I think going back to the MBA that I had now, being in the program manager role, I have to be more analytical managing the budget. So the work that I did during the MBA and forecasting and managing all the numbers and being more aware of what's involved with that has definitely been helpful to me. I've used those tools. I've actually even used the lean six Sigma principles towards some of my MPA work. Looking back on how we got to the root cause of a problem or an issue that we want to improve going forward and the continuous improvement of the department, I have actually applied those principles that I learned during my MBA towards the work that I'm doing here.

Christopher Lewis [00:13:25]:

So the work that you're doing at the University of Michigan Flint, and it builds on what you did at Cleary University is you are working with individuals that are connected to the armed forces. I called them veterans at the beginning, but you're working also with active duty individuals, and you've worked with individuals that have gone to get their bachelor's degree, but also those that decide to continue their education and work on that graduate degree. As you work with veterans that are looking at graduate school, what are some of the biggest challenges that those students tend to have as you're working with them?

Helen Budd [00:14:04]:

One thing that stands out is that it may have been quite a while since they attended school for their bachelor's degree. So if they're coming in to get a Master's degree like me, it was some time since the completion of my last master's, they're coming in from a bachelor's perspective, possibly, and it may have been a while since they were in a classroom setting or dealing with the intricacies of zoom and canvas. And it can be a little bit overwhelming initially. Plus, we're not getting any younger, I'll be quite frank. I think the older we get that there was some research that I had done during my MPA for my Capstone project that it can be even more overwhelming for graduate students just as it is for undergraduate students because we have different learning styles. We have jobs. Very often, we have even more to juggle than we did perhaps during our bachelor's degree days. And I think just that gap maybe between bachelor's and masters can be intimidating.

Helen Budd [00:15:16]:

So as a graduate alumnus of University of Michigan, Flint having gone through the MPA program whenever I get a prospect who's looking at the MPA or any of our degrees first thing I do is I introduce myself as having completed that MPA already and try to put their mind at ease that they have someone in their corner. I think that is the biggest factor. Take it one class at a time if you need to use your benefits towards your pursuit. Benefits get pretty complicated full time and requires eight or more credit hours each semester. That can be a little daunting at first, especially when you're just coming into grad school. So really take the time and look at what your priorities are from at the beginning. Don't overload yourself because overloading yourself you're just going to get more stressed and more overwhelmed. Most of us have families.

Helen Budd [00:16:24]:

Many of them have families and other jobs. So leaping into eight credit hours right away can be daunting. So you have to measure what is most important to you. First of all, is it the money that you get from your housing allowance? You have to get that full housing allowance. Is that the biggest factor? Or is it getting into a program part time initially until you get used to the system and the curriculum and getting back to writing papers and then maybe building up to full time from there. So I think that's definitely a big factor that I do ask some of my grad prospects to consider. What is your biggest priority? Is it that housing allowance payment or is it success in the program and maybe starting out gradually? Everyone comes from different backgrounds.

Christopher Lewis [00:17:21]:

Are there things that veterans or active duty service members tend to forget when it comes to and it may be just nuts and bolts things for benefits or other aspects that they should be asking coordinators like yourself at the campuses that they're attending so that they are not leaving anything on the table.

Helen Budd [00:17:45]:

I can't bring anything specific to mind other than knowing that it is perfectly fine to use the resources that are available to you. Don't be afraid to ask the questions. Some of the folks I've had come in have retired after 20 years or more of service, may have got their bachelor's degree already while they were in. And I think it's just what I had mentioned before, just making sure that you know that you have the resources and support and that it's okay to ask for help. That's probably the biggest thing for all of my undergraduate and graduate students is the military culture. Very often they don't like to ask for help. And that's something that I think can be that can get in the way. I've seen it get in the way.

Helen Budd [00:18:36]:

Well, I'm embarrassed to ask for help with this. It's such a trivial thing. No, it's not. Nothing is trivial. There's no silly question. We're here to help. Absolutely.

Christopher Lewis [00:18:47]:

So talk to me about the role that you play, the role that other people in similar roles that you play and why it's so important for anyone that is applying to grad school or to school in general that they should be reaching out to a coordinator like yourself. A director? Whatever type of resource that is on the campus for active duty and veterans.

Helen Budd [00:19:15]:

I want to clarify that we have several more people in our community, in our military connected community. We have active duty reservists members of the National Guard, and we have family members who are also a huge component. They're the ones that hold the fort when they're service members serving male, female, it doesn't matter. Spouses, kids, they're part of that military family. And that's something that I always want everyone to remember, that they're all important. They all serve one way or the other, whether it's at home, holding the keeping the home fires burning or out in the field and drilling and doing their work overseas or at home. Everyone plays a part. So I do want to clarify it's not just veterans active duty reserves.

Helen Budd [00:20:15]:

We have our family members and to our department, they are as important as our military member, direct military members. So I do want to make sure that everyone's aware of that. The other thing is that they really need to approach our department as soon as possible. So that we can assist with benefit related questions. That's usually the biggest thing that happens is how do I use my GI bill or my husband or wife transferred their benefit to me? How do I go about receiving those benefits? So we are myself and Michelle Smith in my department. We're the two who handle those questions and can help the students get on the right track, whether they're the veteran or service member or the dependent. There are different forms for each depending on the circumstances. So there are a lot of things that we need to work with them to make sure that they either apply for the correct benefit or use the benefit.

Helen Budd [00:21:29]:

So we have processes in place where they have to request to use the benefit before each semester. Otherwise, we do not certify them to VA until we have their request, and that is for their protection. We don't just blindly see that they're registered and then just certify them because they might not want to use the benefit for a specific semester. But really, until they come and talk to us, every case is different. Some cases are very similar. It just depends on the person. But we're here to help, and we're the only ones who actually submit that information to VA. So it is critical that they reach out to us so we can get that information to them and provide a smooth transition, as smooth as we possibly can make it for them.

Christopher Lewis [00:22:20]:

So, Helen, as you look at the work that you did in your own experience and the educational experience that you had personally, you look at the experience that you're seeing other veterans or military connected individuals going through in their graduate experience. What are some tips that you might offer others? Anyone that is looking at graduate school that would help them to find success sooner?

Helen Budd [00:22:45]:

Do the research. Make sure that the university or college that you want to attend offers the majors that you're looking for that takes some homework on your part. There are easy ways to do that. The VA has a comparison tool on their website that is phenomenal. It is really easy to use. You can compare different schools on there and see what is offered and what is available, who the certifying official is, and what the different housing rates are for different locations, because they do differ based on the zip code of where the school is located. What's the difference if I go all online or partly on campus? Just make sure you do the homework and you find the right major and program for you. Also make sure that that program and major is approved for VA education benefits.

Helen Budd [00:23:47]:

As we go from year to year, we offer new programs, and I'm going to use one in particular, the Doctor of Business Administration. We had to request approval from VA in our new catalog before we could submit enrollment certifications for that program. So it's really important before you enroll and register that you know that your program is approved for the use of benefits. That's the biggest thing that I would recommend, and we can help with that. And my Certifying official is phenomenal. She does the catalog every year so it gets that prepared for approval and we stay on top of that because the VA won't pay for what's not approved. Also understand that you can't just take free electives and expect the VA to pay for them. Know that whatever you take has to apply to you towards your degree.

Helen Budd [00:24:46]:

However interesting a course might sound, if it's not required, VA is not going to pay for it. Another factor is if you have a 20% or higher service connected disability, check into the Veterans Readiness and Employment benefit. If you've not used any of previous benefits, you can potentially use that benefit and it won't cut into, for instance, post 911 GI bill entitlement. So you could end up with at least 48 months of benefits if you play it right. So that's where we also like to meet our students ahead of time. So we can ask some difficult questions sometimes, but it's for the benefit of the student or prospective student so that we can guide you to the right benefit and program for you.

Christopher Lewis [00:25:41]:

Well, Helen, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for sharing your own journey with us, and I wish you all the best.

Helen Budd [00:25:49]:

Thank you very much. Go blue.

Christopher Lewis [00:25:51]:

The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of master's and doctorate programs. If you are interested in continuing your education, whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit Umflint.edu/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at [email protected].