Victors in Grad School

Embarking on the journey of graduate education is a significant milestone in one's life. It is a pathway filled with self-exploration, knowledge acquisition, and transformation. In the podcast episode featuring Sasha Wakefield, a high school math teacher from Clio, Michigan, her story reflects the essence of this transformative journey. With a passion for learning and a drive for success, Sasha shares insights from her educational pursuits, offering valuable lessons for aspiring graduate students.

Discovering the Desire for Education

Sasha's educational journey began with overcoming challenges early on in her life. As a teen mother facing uncertainties, she found her determination to pursue higher education. Starting at Mott Community College and later transferring to Ferris State University, Sasha's thirst for knowledge led her to a career in teaching. Her story exemplifies resilience and the power of pursuing one's dreams despite obstacles.

Choosing the Path: Master's Degree and Beyond

Sasha's decision to further her education by pursuing a master's degree at Concordia University was driven by a combination of factors. Financial considerations, program offerings, and a passion for mathematics education influenced her choice. Her dedication to paying off her student loans and gaining specialized knowledge in curriculum instruction showcased her commitment to professional growth.

Exploring Educational Leadership

Transitioning to an Educational Specialist Degree at the University of Michigan Flint, Sasha delved into educational leadership, broadening her perspective on the public education system. With aspirations to enhance her role as an educator and leader within the school community, Sasha embraced the opportunity to gain insights into administrative functions and community partnerships. Her choice to continue her education at UM Flint reflects her positive experiences and strong connection to the institution.

Balancing Passion and Profession

Sasha's success in her educational pursuits stems from her unwavering passion for teaching. Viewing education as a source of happiness and fulfillment, she emphasizes the importance of wholehearted commitment to one's goals. Sasha's dedication to continuous learning and improvement not only enriches her teaching practice but also inspires her students to discover their own passions and pursue them with vigor.

Impact of Graduate Education on Teaching

The knowledge and skills acquired through Sasha's master's and specialist degrees have greatly influenced her teaching practice. By integrating leadership perspectives and community engagement strategies, she has gained a deeper understanding of the education system's complexity. Through continuous reflection and application of her learning, Sasha has become a more effective educator, dedicated to enhancing student achievement and fostering a supportive learning environment.

Celebrating Success: Michigan Teacher of the Year Finalist

Sasha's recognition as a finalist for the Michigan Teacher of the Year Award stands as a testament to her dedication and exemplary work in the field of education. Her journey of hard work, resilience, and relentless pursuit of excellence serves as an inspiration to her students and colleagues. The accolade not only validates Sasha's commitment to education but also highlights her impact as a role model within the educational community.

Embracing the Graduate School Journey

Sasha's story encapsulates the essence of embarking on a graduate school journey with passion and purpose. Her experiences underscore the importance of following one's passions, embracing challenges, and committing wholeheartedly to personal and professional growth. Aspiring graduate students can glean valuable lessons from Sasha's journey, finding inspiration to navigate their own educational paths with determination and enthusiasm.

Sasha Wakefield's narrative exemplifies the transformative power of education and the unwavering dedication required to succeed in the field of teaching. Her journey serves as a beacon of inspiration for individuals embarking on their own graduate education pursuits, illuminating the path towards personal and professional fulfillment. By embracing the journey with passion and perseverance, one can overcome obstacles, achieve milestones, and make a lasting impact in the realm of education.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to victors in grad school. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. I'm really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, I love being able to walk with you on this journey that you're on. And I call it a journey because it truly is a journey. Every person going to graduate school, every person thinking about graduate school is going to be going on a true journey, a journey of self exploration, a journey of knowledge acquisition, a journey in so many different ways that will transform you to a brand new person. Because by the end of your graduate degree, you're going to have a lot more skills, a lot more tools in your toolbox, and you're gonna be ready to roll for whatever you want to do next. And that's why this show exists.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:59]: This show exists to be able to give you some insights, give you insights from others that have gone before you. People that are currently going through graduate school, people that have gone through graduate school. And every week, I love being able to bring you different guests, different people that have gone on this journey themselves and can share with you some of the things that they've had to do to be able to find success in that journey. This week, we got another great guest with us. Sasha Wakefield is with us. And Sasha is a high school math teacher in Clio, Michigan. And she currently is working on an EDS, an educational specialist degree. She already has a master's degree and a bachelor's degree, an associate's degree.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:41]: She's one of those lifelong learners that continues her her own educational pursuits. We're gonna learn about that journey that she has gone on, but also is on currently to share that journey with you. Sasha, thanks so much for joining us today.

Sasha Wakefield [00:01:55]: Sasha Thank you for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:56]: It is my pleasure having you here today. And first and foremost, what I would love to do is I wanna turn the clock back in time. I know you did your undergraduate work at Ferris State University. Before that, you were at Mott Community College doing your associate's degree. But then at some point in that journey, whether it was at Ferris State or after you jumped into that professional career, there was a point in time where you said to yourself, I need to go further. I need to continue my education. Talk to me about that. And what made you decide that you wanted to take that next step and go to get a graduate degree?

Sasha Wakefield [00:02:32]: I think that that journey for me started much before that, to be honest with you. I was a teen mother. I had my first child at the age of 16 years old. And I went to 6 different high schools before I finally graduated high school. I moved out on my own and I went to several alternative high schools, and I didn't even graduate high school on time. I graduated later than my peers, and I did not know if I could go to college. I was very poor, and I just decided that I needed to do that. I needed to go to college.

Sasha Wakefield [00:03:11]: And I did enroll at Mott Community College and started taking classes through there. And I just wanted to be a teacher from the second I, I don't know, started college. And, from there, I truly wanted to learn everything that I could. I just felt like I was constantly trying to learn. I was curious all of the time, and I just couldn't get enough. And the beautiful piece about this is that while I was at Mott, I decided that I loved mathematics and I continued to pursue, math math courses in which I kinda ran out at Mott. And I decided to enroll at U of M to take math courses at U of M. And, Mott has a pretty good program where they have other, universities on campus.

Sasha Wakefield [00:04:07]: And so I ended up getting that bachelor's degree through Ferris State University, but on the Mott Community College campus. But the majority of my math classes were at U of M, and I I truly loved the campus at U of M. I loved everyone in the admissions department. They really worked with me as a transfer student. I was working full time during the day. At that time, I was a mother of 2, so I was working full time during the day, and then I was taking college classes at night. And then from there, when I was able to graduate, I did take about 7 years before I decided that I was gonna go back for my masters. And I think those 7 years are just kind of getting on your feet.

Sasha Wakefield [00:04:49]: For myself, it was getting on my feet, kind of establishing a salary and teaching. And my kids were very active then in sports. And so about 7 years later, I was like, oh, alright. It's time. It's time because I missed it. And and I love that part about myself. You know, as a young mother, you're constantly, like, giving to kids. But I think that that is also a little hobby of mine.

Sasha Wakefield [00:05:10]: I just really enjoy learning. So that was that little bit of I need to go further because I enjoy it. But also as well, it gives an opportunity for me to talk to like minded individuals who also enjoy talking about education, who also enjoy learning and collaborating at that level. So I think that was, for me, another reason to to go back and get my master's degree. And then just recently, just this past year, I just said, okay. I'll miss it again. I think I'm always gonna miss it. I I could be a lifelong college student maybe.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:46]: So you had originally decided to go to get your master's degree at Concordia University. You got your master's degree from Concordia. There are many different schools that are out there that you probably could have selected for a master's degree. Talk to me about that thought process as you were going through deciding not only that you were going to graduate school, but where you wanted to attend, and what ultimately made you decide that Concordia was the place where you wanted to go for that master's degree?

Sasha Wakefield [00:06:17]: Great question. I think the choices that I made as a young adult, I didn't realize it at the time, but they did shape the trajectory of my life. And having a child so young really forced me to have to make some decisions where finance was really important. So I looked at different schools to go to for a master's degree and Concordia was on the least expensive side and it was from home. I could do it virtually, which is before virtual was super popular. And so that really worked out for me. The ease that fit into my schedule and financial as well. I had already had some student loans for my undergrad, and I just didn't wanna take anymore.

Sasha Wakefield [00:07:04]: I wanted to pay it out of pocket and I only had certain amount saved up. So that was really that decision. They also had a great program at the time for the curriculum instruction. So I had a focus in mathematics education with curriculum, and I was very interested in that field at the time. So kind of all of that put together was like a little bit of a perfect fit for me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:29]: And as you mentioned just a little bit ago, you now are in an educational specialist degree, and you chose to attend the University of Michigan Flint for that degree. Again, there's other EDS programs that are out there. Talk to me about that process as you decided that you were itching to get back into education again and to continue to learn in different ways. And as you were making that decision to go not only to the EDS, but first, I guess, first and foremost, why the EDS versus just jumping right to a a PhD or an EDD versus and then why the University of Michigan Flint?

Sasha Wakefield [00:08:04]: I remember the great memories that I had at U of M with the undergrad. I remember the staff. I remember doctor Bix. I remember professor Schilling. I remember being a transfer student, but yet feeling so accepted as if my degree was coming from U of M. The department of the financial aid department, they were pretty awesome. And I just remember everyone just being so kind and so nice. So those fun feelings carried on.

Sasha Wakefield [00:08:32]: It just seemed natural. I've just been all over that campus with those math courses and a couple of the courses that I'd taken at U of M. It just felt comfortable. For the EDS, to be honest, I could have jumped into a PhD, but I think it was those fond memories that I had with U of M Flint, specifically, that I looked at their graduate program and I was, like, alright. They have an educational specialist. I'm interested in that. So it kinda worked out that way. I'm really grateful for U of M Flint.

Sasha Wakefield [00:09:02]: They have made the process for me to continue my education. It's almost seamless in a way that it just feels so accepting, like you're just you're meant to be here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:13]: Now you've gone through a master's. You're in a specialist degree right now. You're doing quite well in all of your studies here, but also in the past, you were successful in that journey. So talk to me about as you made those transitions, the transition to your masters, the transition to your specialist, each of those transitions are true transitions. You have to be able to not only master's degree to a specialist degree, again, you're being taught in a different way. You're being there's different expectations. So talk to me about what you've had to do currently or in the past to help you to find success, what you had to do to be able to set yourself up at the beginning of those educational opportunities, but also what you had to do throughout the time that you've been in these degrees to help you maintain that success throughout the journey?

Sasha Wakefield [00:10:10]: I believe that you will be successful if you want it. I want it that bad. I want it that much. I don't half want it. I didn't half I don't kinda want my master's degree. I kinda want it. I'm all in, and that's just the type of person that I I am. If I'm going to do something, I'm going to give a 100% of myself.

Sasha Wakefield [00:10:35]: I don't ever say I'm going to do something and then I just kinda do it. Because at the end of the day and I put my head on the pillow and am I proud of myself? Yes or no? I really would like people to follow their path and whatever makes them happy. And education makes me insanely happy. So much so that I'm just so passionate and I'm so driven that it helps me with my success because it's all I kind of think about. I do have hobbies. I do. But it's when you find something that you truly enjoy, then you just, at ease, just put the effort into it. And I just feel very fortunate that I was able to find that.

Sasha Wakefield [00:11:18]: I found that at a young age, and I tell my own students that. I just want you to find something that you're passionate in because then it just will start naturally being a part of who you are. So I was very fortunate. I didn't have to make any huge sacrifices because it's like, oh, I got this 10 page paper due. No. It's like, I'm already on it. I love this paper. I have already researched this.

Sasha Wakefield [00:11:42]: I'm excited to put my thoughts on paper and share my ideas with other colleagues. And just that excitement is what I hope that everyone is able to find in their own life, whatever that may be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:54]: Now you finished the master's degree. You're in the specialist degree. You're learning new things. And I guess as you look back at your master's degree in what you're doing today, but also your specialist degree in the courses that you've taken thus far, how are you finding that what you have learned through your graduate degree, your master's degree that you already have completed, and also the coursework that you finished are showing up in the work that you do on a daily basis?

Sasha Wakefield [00:12:20]: I think it gives gives me currently right now a greater perspective of education. So currently, in the educational specialist, you receive a a central office endorsement and administrator certificate. And so I'm kind of seeing public education in the lens that I've never looked before. So I've I've only really looked at it from a teacher's perspective. And then with my master's, it was like, alright. How can I become a better teacher? And that was how I was looking at with my master's. But with the educational specialist, completely different view from the leadership that I don't really have a whole lot of experience in. And so I'm very curious on what that looks like in terms of community partnership.

Sasha Wakefield [00:13:08]: And as a leader in a building potentially, changes my perspective too because it just opens up to not the complexity, but the different roles that are within a school district and what those responsibilities are with each role. And then with anything, I mean, once you have a greater understanding of the way something works and you have a greater understanding of kind of the whole big picture. And I'm able to just kinda take a step back and see the public school district as one whole entity instead of just my small view as a teacher. And that's just so powerful too because it really helps me understand maybe some of the decisions that are made that, from a teacher's view, you're like, oh, I don't really understand that. But maybe as an educational leader, you're like, okay. That's kind of the reason why. So that's also, a neat, I don't know, perspective, I guess, to see that I've been able to take with me so far.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:17]: Now one of the other things that I haven't mentioned is you are a finalist for the Michigan Teacher of the Year Award. And congratulations. That is amazing. And I guess as you look back at at what you have learned along the way, and you just talked about how you're incorporating some of that learning, how does does that graduate work make you a better teacher? And how has that allowed for you to be able to be at the place that you are right now to help you to be considered for being the Michigan teacher of the year?

Sasha Wakefield [00:14:48]: I think with every experience that we have, we choose to take small nuggets of each of them, And I believe that that's what I've been able to do successfully. With each professional development, with each professor that I sit in front of, I do my best to try to grab every little piece and kinda try to, in my mind, apply it to my everyday. Think about what will make that how I will make that into a better teacher, better for my students. I'm constantly wanting to think about how do I increase student achievement. What can I do to listen to students more? Yeah. I guess, gosh, everything. It's like the worst answer ever, but it truly is.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:35]: And I have to ask because not there's so few individual teachers that do get this recognition to be even considered as a not only a regional award winner, but as the Michigan Teacher of the Year. What does that mean to you in the work that you have done to to get you to where you are today? And what does this recognition mean to you?

Sasha Wakefield [00:15:57]: It means everything. Everything. First, I love that it gives me the opportunity to have a voice for all the amazing teachers that I have come encounter with and that I haven't met yet. And I I think that that is just a truly a great honor to be able to have that opportunity. When I received the phone call that I was the regional teacher of the year, region 5 for the 24, 25 year, I instantly sobbed. And that was a moment that I will not forget. And I've thought about this process constantly because I always will look at any situation and I'll say, alright. How can I improve? What else could I have done differently? What can I do differently? What am I proud of myself on, and then what can I improve on? And I've shared this journey with my students.

Sasha Wakefield [00:16:58]: I think that that's the best way for students to learn is for them to see through someone else's, like, their shoes, which is basically this podcast. Right? You're kinda sharing your story, and I share it with my students. And I remember telling them before that last round for the Michigan Teacher of the Year, the process that I did. It was Monday, Monday morning. And I said, hey, guys. Hope you had a good weekend. And I was like, oh, yeah. What'd you guys do? And then they asked me what I did, and I said, well, on Friday, I said goodbye to you.

Sasha Wakefield [00:17:31]: And I went home and I got on my computer, and I worked until I went to bed at about 11 o'clock at night. And then I woke up the next morning pretty early, poured myself a cup of coffee, and I worked on the computer until 11 o'clock at night. And I did not stop. And then I woke up the next day on Sunday and I worked, same, until about 5 o'clock. And I took a deep breath and I walked away from the computer and I was done. And it was final with what I wanted to submit for the last round for the Michigan teacher of the year. And I shared that, and they're like, what? What? You did not. And I was like, yes, I did.

Sasha Wakefield [00:18:06]: Absolutely, I did. And they're like, what if you did all that for nothing? Like, what if you just they tell you you didn't make it to the next round. You just did all of that for nothing. And I said, no. I didn't. I wanted it that bad, and I was gonna give the best that I could of myself. And they're like, yeah. But you just might not get it.

Sasha Wakefield [00:18:23]: And I said, that's okay. I'm gonna be proud of myself because I gave it everything that I got. And that's what you do in life. If you really really hard for it. And if I don't get the next round, I'm I'm just really proud of the work that I have done. And so it was kinda cool because then I was like, hey, guys. Guess what? Guess what that hard work? And they're like, you got it. And I was like, I did.

Sasha Wakefield [00:18:45]: And so that was just really cool to share those moments with them so they can kind of see someone kind of going through that struggle and what they're going through. And, definitely, I would've shared it instantly. Nope, guys. I didn't get it, but I'm pretty proud of myself. Do you guys wanna see what I did and what I submitted? And just sharing that along the way?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:02]: So as you think about other students, other people that are thinking about graduate school, maybe they're in graduate school and they're working their way through and trying to figure out this whole journey for themselves. As you look back to your own experience and you think about what you had to do, what are some tips that you might offer others considering graduate education that would help them find success sooner?

Sasha Wakefield [00:19:25]: I would give them the same advice I give my own adult children is I would want them to follow what makes them happy. I want them to follow their passion. And if you wanna go to graduate to get a better job, make sure it's the job that you're gonna fall in love with, that you really want. If you're unsure, research. Put yourself in those shoes of those individuals who have that degree. Would you love that job? And once you find what you really love, then that that's a whole game changer. And then with graduate school, because you know that you're gonna really enjoy it, that's when it becomes fun. That's when it doesn't become work and tedious.

Sasha Wakefield [00:20:10]: Oh, I gotta get this done. It's more like I wanna get this done because I'm interested in it. I'm interested what this assignment is about. I'm excited what it's what it's gonna teach me, what I'm gonna learn from it. And so I really want individuals, when they're thinking about graduate school to think about would I would I really enjoy that path? And then if that answer is yes, then definitely do it. If you're unsure, test the waters and and see what you like and what you don't like.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:36]: Well, Sasha, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for being here today, for sharing your own experiences, for sharing your journey. And I'm looking forward to hearing what happens with the Michigan teacher of the year. And no matter what the outcome is, you're doing amazing things in your district. You're doing amazing things in your own education, and you're being a great role model for your own kids. Not only the kids that live may live with you or maybe they're outside of the house, but also the kids that you impact day to day within your schools. So thank you for being that role model for others. Thank you for sharing your journey, and I wish you all the best.

Sasha Wakefield [00:21:13]: Thank you so much.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:14]: The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit flint.eduforward/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at [email protected].

Embarking on a journey through graduate school can be both challenging and rewarding. In a recent podcast episode of Victors in Grad School, Jennifer Phillips, a graduate of the University of Michigan Flint's MBA program, shared her personal journey and the lessons she learned along the way. Her experiences offer valuable insights for current and prospective graduate students seeking to navigate the path to success.

Setting Yourself Up for Success:

Jennifer's decision to pursue a graduate degree was fueled by her passion for lifelong learning. Despite being a full-time working mom with family obligations, she found the flexibility of online classes at the University of Michigan Flint to be a key factor in her decision. By carefully managing her time and balancing her priorities, Jennifer was able to embark on her graduate school journey with determination and focus.

Choosing the Right Program and Institution:

When it came to choosing the Master of Business Administration program at the University of Michigan Flint, Jennifer considered a variety of factors. The program's flexibility, convenience, affordability, and alignment with her entrepreneurial aspirations played a crucial role in her decision-making process. By selecting a program that resonated with her goals and values, Jennifer set herself up for success from the outset.

Overcoming Challenges and Seeking Support:

As Jennifer progressed through her MBA program, she encountered obstacles and moments of self-doubt. However, her willingness to reach out for support and guidance proved to be pivotal in overcoming these challenges. By seeking advice from faculty, taking a semester off when needed, and relying on her support system, Jennifer was able to navigate difficult times and stay on track towards completing her degree.

The Power of Continuous Learning:

Reflecting on her graduate education, Jennifer emphasizes the invaluable skills and knowledge she acquired during her MBA program. These insights not only enhanced her professional capabilities but also opened up new possibilities for her future endeavors. By embracing a mindset of continuous learning and growth, Jennifer is well-equipped to pursue her entrepreneurial aspirations and thrive in her professional life.

Tips for Prospective Graduate Students:

Drawing from her own experiences, Jennifer offers practical advice for individuals considering graduate school. She encourages prospective students to overcome self-doubt, take the first step towards their educational goals, and approach their journey one step at a time. By emphasizing the value of investing in oneself and seizing opportunities for growth, Jennifer inspires others to pursue their academic aspirations with confidence and determination.

Jennifer Phillips's journey through graduate school serves as a testament to the resilience, dedication, and passion required to succeed in academic pursuits. Her story illuminates the importance of perseverance, self-care, and seeking support during challenging times. By following her example and embracing the value of lifelong learning, current and prospective graduate students can chart a course towards academic and professional success.

In the end, Jennifer's insights remind us that the journey through graduate school is not just about obtaining a degree but about personal growth, professional development, and the enduring pursuit of knowledge and excellence.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to victors in grad school. I'm your host, Doctor. Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. This week as always, we are on a journey together. I love being able to talk to you every week as I know that you are on your own journey, your own journey of going into through and looking at the end of graduate school. But as you're looking at all of that, hopefully, one of the things that you're thinking about is what you can do to be successful in this journey because it does take effort. It takes time, and it takes a lot of forethought to make sure that you're doing what you can to be successful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:59]: And there are things that you can do right today that'll set yourself up on the right foot to be able to help you to find that success. And that's what this show is all about. This show is all about helping you to be able to see different ways, different things that you can do to be able to be successful in this journey that you're on. In every week, I love being able to bring you different people, people that have gone before you, that have decided to to go to graduate school, gone through graduate school and have found success. This week, we got another great guest with us today. Jennifer Phillips is with us and Jennifer did her undergraduate work at the University of Michigan Flint, got a bachelor of applied sciences and economics, and then a few years later made a decision to go back to school and get that master of business administration degree also at the University of Michigan Flint. So we're gonna be talking to her about her own journey and what she learned along that path. And I'm really excited to have her here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:07]: Jennifer, thanks so much for being here today.

Jennifer Phillips [00:02:09]: Thank you for having me, Chris.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:11]: It is my pleasure. I love being able to talk to people about the journeys that they have gone through. And what I would love to do is is I wanna turn the clock back in time. I wanna go all the way back to your undergraduate days first, and let's talk about as you're going through that degree, then you left your undergraduate work, went back into the work world after completing off that degree. And I know you did you did work while you were going through your undergrad as well and had that experience. But at some point you made a decision to continue with your education. Talk to me about that. And what made you decide that you wanted to go to get that graduate degree?

Jennifer Phillips [00:02:50]: So for me, the reason that I chose grad school was because I consider myself a lifelong learner. Ever since I was young, I felt that I would always go on and work my way through graduate school. And for me, my life, you know, took turns in different directions. And I was a working mom, full time mom when I got my undergrad degree. And for me starting grad school, there was a gap between my undergrad and my graduate degree because of having the young kids at home and having to help them with their studies. I needed to know that I had time for my own studies so that I could be successful. So I was excited to be able to start when I did start and the flexibility that's offered by grad school, being able to take the classes on my own time online, most of them I could schedule around my own schedule and family obligations and work. I figured I would make a go of it, and I'm glad that I started.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:45]: So when you did decide to go back to grad school, you decided to get a master's of business administration, and you decided to get that at the University of Michigan Flint. There are many different schools, many different programs that are out there. Talk to me about the decision making that you went through when you did make that decision to go back to graduate school and what was going through your head in regard to why the Master of Business Administration? But 2, why the business administration, but 2, why the University of Michigan Flint?

Jennifer Phillips [00:04:17]: Prior to working at the university where I am employed currently, I was an entrepreneur myself and I see myself going back into that maybe when I'm retired, getting into entrepreneurial aspirations that I have. U of M Flint, I chose U of M as my alma mater. I've began classes right out of high school actually and returned decades later. And I have a special place in my heart for U of M Flint. When I looked at the offerings for the MBA, it was something that I could do. It was flexible. There were some evening classes, and just the setup of it was great for me. The convenience was perfect for me.

Jennifer Phillips [00:04:56]: The affordability, the university invests in their own, and they made it an easy choice for me. The flexibility, as I said, in the scheduling worked for me. And those are the reasons I chose U of M Flint. I wanna see Flint be successful and U of M is a bright spot in the city of Flint. And so I'm happy to to be able to support as a student and to earn my graduate degree there as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:18]: Now I know that there was a couple of years between when you got your undergraduate degree when you went back for your graduate degree. And anytime that you make a transition from different degrees from different levels of degrees, there's different ways in which you're educated. And there's a transition that you have to go through to be able to find success in that journey for yourself. You did get through your degree, you finished off your MBA, so you found success in that journey. As you think back to the beginning of your graduate degree and that transition back into school after being out for a little bit of time, what did you have to do to be able to set yourself up for success? And what did you have to do to maintain your success throughout your graduate school journey

Jennifer Phillips [00:06:07]: to revisit kind of what I let into in the beginning for me, I did want to continue right away with my education, but I knew that I had to put my family first. My kids were young at the time. My youngest son, it was once he finally finished 6th grade that he was then independent and able to manage his homework with very little help from me where I knew that then I would have the free time. So I actually kinda hung around the flagpole. I stayed close to the graduate programs during those years, would put visit the open houses that you'd have and things just to let you know that I'm here and I'm coming and was just waiting for the right time. So for myself, as I said, I, you know, working full time is kids in school, had a husband, a family, school sports, things like that, taking my time. I decided to go to school part time to work it in around all of that. So it took me 4 years to get my degree and that was my choice so that I could have the work life balance.

Jennifer Phillips [00:07:01]: And that worked well for me to maintain. I took it seriously. I set aside the time. I sacrificed my evenings and some sleep for studying every semester that began, I'd get my syllabus and set out my calendar so I could see when my due dates were so that I knew that I would make all the deadlines for my assignments and exams. And that just helped me to chart out a path throughout the semester. I had a lot of family support. My family was in my court. My classmates were my gym buddies.

Jennifer Phillips [00:07:30]: You know, they kept me going when I feel like I was browning a little bit throughout the semesters. My colleagues and friends encouraged. There was just really a really great support system that I had, and I'm grateful for that. But I am also personally driven and I make my commitments and I succeed at them. I did well in the courses. I did have one tough semester, I'll tell you, Chris, and I felt like quitting. I had actually gone full time that semester and I never did that again with working full time and going. It was tough.

Jennifer Phillips [00:07:58]: But I felt like quitting. And I but I reached out to my professors, and I did talk to the dean. And they just said, you know, take a semester off, just regroup and come back. And that was right during the pandemic, in fact. And I'm so grateful that I did that and that I listened to them because I took the the ones the next semester off. And then when I came back, it was smoother sailing after that. So I guess for success, the way to maintain is just keep going. Just keep going.

Jennifer Phillips [00:08:25]: Reach out if you're drowning.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:26]: Makes me think of Dory from Finding Nemo as she just keeps swimming. And definitely there are times where you have to do that. And I appreciate that you said that you did reach out and you asked those questions. And talk to me about what was the response that you got when you did reach out to your faculty, when you did reach out to the people within your program for that support, what was their response back in regard to providing you with resources or tools or things that could help you to get through that term even though you were hitting that proverbial wall that was more difficult during that specific term?

Jennifer Phillips [00:09:04]: I think mostly it was, as I said, that was at the beginning of the pandemic. It was the spring semester in 2020. And I think there was just an awful lot going on at that time, right? We were washing our groceries and it was just a really scary time. And so the advice that I got from the dean was, who was also my instructor, was just take some time off, just take a break and regroup and come back. I felt like I was doing horribly. I think I'd gotten a c on an exam. I've never gotten a c on an exam before. And he assured me that that was nothing to be concerned about.

Jennifer Phillips [00:09:38]: And I think that I was right in there with the realm of others in the course. But, you know, I did better from there moving forward. It was my first exam in that semester. And so once you see the first one, you kind of know how to prepare for the next one. And so that's what I did was I just changed up my study habits and found different path to prepare in that particular course and took that semester off, got some R and R, came back with a fresh mind in the fall. And and I said, reached out to my colleagues and they said, you got this. You're doing great. And I did great.

Jennifer Phillips [00:10:09]: I graduated with a 3.9. I think I did okay. That didn't hurt me too bad.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:15]: No. It definitely doesn't. And, you know, and I think that that one thing there just that everyone should understand is that you can have a bump in the road and that one bump in the road isn't going to make or break your experience going through graduate school. Now, if you have multiple bumps in the road, that can be more of an issue. And as you're hitting those bumps along the way, what Jennifer said is so important, which is reach out, ask for help. Don't push through thinking that you're doing things in the right way if you truly are lost. Because the more that you can ask for help when you truly need it, that there may be resources, may be assistance, may be other things that a faculty can offer you, that the program can offer you, that the university can offer you, that may be able to set things up to help you along the way as well. You just don't want to go so far down the path that you can't fix the issue as it's going on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:16]: And that's really important.

Jennifer Phillips [00:11:18]: I would agree to that wholeheartedly. And I tell my kids this as well, start the semester strong. And I think that's part of the reason that that early c hit me so hard because that's what I tell them. It's so much easier. You don't know what's coming as the semester goes on. So if you set yourself up strong in the beginning, then if something happens, there's a definite family, which happened to me one semester in my undergrad. You can recover from it more easily if you come out of the gate strong.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:44]: Now you've completed, as I mentioned, your MBA a few years back. You were in professional life throughout the entire time, but you're continuing with your professional journey. As you look at the work that you do on a daily basis, how do you feel that the graduate degree prepared you for the work that you do?

Jennifer Phillips [00:12:00]: That's a great question. And and I'll tell you, Chris, I, there were many, many classes where I gleaned some excellent skills and tips and tricks that benefited me in my workplace. And I shared that with my colleagues, with my director, the things that I learned, those little handy little tricks and tips and things that I didn't know were beneficial to me along the way. I feel like my MBA degree has set me up to go anywhere I choose. And I'm really excited too that I made that step to get that degree because of the possibilities that would be afforded to somebody with a graduate degree versus someone without. You know, my kids would say, what were you gonna do with your degree, mom? And I say, you know, I don't know. I don't really know where all my future is gonna take me, but I've planted the seeds and prepared my fields for rain. That's how I tell them.

Jennifer Phillips [00:12:51]: I say, you know, any investment we make in ourselves, it's nothing but good. And we don't know what lies ahead, but I look forward to, you know, with expectant faith for where my degree may take me. As I said, I have entrepreneurial aspirations and that's one of the things that I did take an entrepreneurial course in my grad program. It was excellent. And I'm looking forward to maybe in my retirement years when I have a little more time picking up, you know, and just doing something a little part time. I don't see myself as ever stopping the workplace. I love working. I love learning, and I love being out in the community.

Jennifer Phillips [00:13:25]: But I think that the things that I learned in my master of business administration courses will really help me the 2nd time through as an entrepreneur.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:34]: As you look back at your graduate education, getting that MBA, and you think about other students that are looking at graduate school now, whether it be in the MBA, whether it be in I know you work with physical therapy students in the physical therapy program at the University of Michigan Flint, no matter who they are, what are some tips that you might offer students, prospective students, people that are considering graduate education that could help them find success sooner?

Jennifer Phillips [00:13:59]: So for me, I had concerns myself. When I was considering I'm not a spring chicken. I'm not the youngest person in the room, and I felt like I was maybe too old to go to school. And and so I was pondering, you know, should I even start this? And I talked to a colleague and I said, gosh. When I'm done, I'm gonna be, you know, a 100 years old. And she says, but you're gonna be a 100 years old anyway. She said, this way, you'll be a 100 and you'll have your man MBA. And I guess I thought about that and I thought, you know, she's right.

Jennifer Phillips [00:14:31]: And when you look back, the years go by so fast. I mean, I look back 10, 20 years has gone by like a couple of months, it feels like some days. And so I know that this time that I invest in myself, whether it's 2 years or 4 years or some of our programs you can whip through in a year, that that it's gonna go by quickly. That time really does go by fast. And we really just need to take a step. Just take that first step. Look at it one class at a time, one semester at a time. And I'll tell you, I've just never heard anyone, Chris, say to me, I've never heard anyone say that they've regretted going back to school and earning that graduate degree.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:11]: Well, I really appreciate you sharing that and sharing your own journey today, Jennifer. I do appreciate. I know that it is a continuum. And as you said, you love having the opportunity to continuously learn and grow. I mean, graduate school does that, but your professional life does that and you have to push yourself to do that throughout your entire career. Now, I truly appreciate you sharing that and I wish you all the best.

Jennifer Phillips [00:15:34]: Thank you. Thanks for having me on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:36]: The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit umflint.eduforward/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at [email protected].

Embarking on the journey of graduate school can be a transformative experience, especially for first-generation students of color. In a recent episode of Victors in Grad School, Dr. Christopher Lewis engages with Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia and Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu, coauthors of "Is Grad School For Me," to delve into their personal narratives and invaluable advice for students considering graduate school. Their shared wisdom offers valuable insights into decision-making, overcoming imposter syndrome, the importance of community, and advocating for underrepresented students in academia.

Motivations for Pursuing Graduate School:

Dr. Chavez-Garcia and Dr. Martinez-Vu unpack their motivations for pursuing graduate education, shedding light on the unique paths that led them to academia. As first-generation students of color, their journeys were marked by a sense of duty and passion for uncovering untold histories. Despite facing challenges and traumatic events, such as surviving a life-threatening accident, their resilience and determination propelled them towards graduate school.

Navigating the Transition to Graduate School:

The transition from undergraduate to graduate school is a pivotal moment in a student's academic career. Dr. Martinez-Vu's experience of becoming a mother during her time in graduate school underscores the intersection of personal and academic challenges that students may face. Dr. Chavez-Garcia's decision to pursue a PhD in 19th-century Mexican American history reflects the influence of mentors and the pursuit of academic passion.

Imposter Syndrome and Strategies for Empowerment:

Imposter syndrome, a common hurdle in academia, is discussed with insightful strategies for overcoming it. Dr. Martinez-Vu and Dr. Chavez-Garcia emphasize the importance of self-affirmation, building supportive communities, and embracing compassion as tools to combat feelings of inadequacy. Their emphasis on empowerment through femtorship, a holistic mentoring approach rooted in intersectional feminism, highlights the transformative power of supportive networks.

Advocacy for Underrepresented Students:

The hosts delve into the historical context of affirmative action and its impact on underrepresented students in academia. Dr. Chavez-Garcia advocates for alternative programs, such as McNair and Mellon May's initiatives, to provide tailored support for marginalized communities. Dr. Martinez-Vu underscores the need for intentional preparation and the creation of inclusive spaces for students of color in graduate education.

Making Informed Decisions:

Choosing the right graduate school offer is a pivotal decision that requires thoughtful consideration. Dr. Martinez-Vu's advice on identifying nonnegotiables, evaluating funding offers, and engaging with graduate students and professors offers a practical roadmap for decision-making. Dr. Chavez-Garcia highlights the importance of considering the institution's culture and community support in the decision-making process.

In navigating the complexities of graduate school, the voices of Dr. Chavez-Garcia and Dr. Martinez-Vu serve as beacons of guidance and inspiration. Their commitment to empowering underrepresented students, creating inclusive spaces, and sharing their personal narratives exemplifies the transformative potential of academia. As first-generation students of color, their stories illuminate the power of resilience, community, and advocacy in shaping a path towards success in graduate education.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always, every week, I love being able to sit down, talk to you, work with you as you are going through this journey that you're on. And I say journey because it is a journey. Grad school is not a point in time. It is a process. It is a journey.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:37]: And no matter if you are at the beginning of that journey and you're just starting to have that inkling in your mind that you may want to jump down this pathway toward getting a graduate degree in some area, or if you're in grad school and you're working through the challenges and working through all of the fun aspects of going through graduate school or if that light is coming up at the end of the tunnel and you're seeing that and you're figuring out, okay, what's next? And what do I need to do to be able to get to that next point in my career, in my life, as I transition out of grad school? Every week, I love being able to talk about these different issues because it takes time, it takes effort to find success in that journey. And that's what this show is all about. Every week, I love being able to bring you different guests, different people with different experiences that can share with you the journeys that they went on, but also be able to give you some resources, provide you with some insights and some other perspectives to help you as you go through this journey yourself. And today, we got 2 great guests with us, doctor Miroslava Chavez Garcia and doctor Yvette Martinez are both with us today. We're gonna talk about their own journey that they both went through in graduate school, but we're also gonna talk about a a brand new resource that I'm gonna share with you today called the Grad School Fentering, And we're gonna talk about that as well because it's another great resource for you as you are going through this journey yourself. Miros, Yvette, thank you so much for being with us today.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:02:08]: Thank you so much for having us.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:02:10]: Yes. Thank you for having us.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:12]: You know, one of the things that I love doing first and foremost is having the power to turn the clock back in time. Wouldn't we all love to do that sometimes? But I would love to turn the clock back. And I'd love for both of you to take me back to that point, that point in your own graduate school journey where you said to yourself, you know what? I think I need to take that next step. What was that point for yourself? Why did you decide that you wanted to take that next step and go to graduate school?

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:02:42]: I'm happy to get started. This is Yvette Martinez Vu speaking. And, you know, one of the reasons why we decided we wanted to come on the show is because doctor Miroslava Chavez Garcia and I recently coauthored a book called Is Grad School For Me, demystifying the application process for 1st gen BIPOC students. And in the introduction of that book, we both tell our grad school journeys and what we both have in common. And I'll speak for myself that my experience was I felt like the decision to go to graduate school was actually made for me. In that, I was someone who was 1st gen in college. I'm Chicana. I came in as an English major.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:03:25]: 1st in my family, I didn't know what I was doing. I was I was like, okay. English sounds interesting. I was a theater minor. I had been in productions acting for most of my youth. And folks kept telling me that you're not gonna make a living out of acting. So what's the next best thing? I discovered undergraduate research at the time I was at UCLA, and that was what was encouraged. I found out about this brand new program on campus called the Mellon Mays Undergraduate Research Fellowship.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:03:54]: I applied. I got in, and I was one of 5 inaugural individuals. We were part of the first cohort there. And I felt that pressure because the program is meant to help support underrepresented students in diversifying academia. I felt the pressure of, oh, now I have to apply to graduate school, and now I have to become a professor. That's why I felt like I had no other option. I also felt like I had no other option given my circumstances as someone from a low income family raised by a single immigrant mom who she's a mom of 6. I didn't feel like I had space to go back home after college.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:04:31]: Some of my peers were going home, getting part time, full time jobs. It was, you know, during the time of the 2008 recession where folks were struggling to figure out how to get a job right after their bachelor's degree. And I thought to myself, it's safer for me to go straight to graduate school, keep doing what I'm doing, what I've been told that I'm good at, and make a living even if it's not much of a living to be able to still pay my bills. And that's what landed me in graduate school, and that's how I arrived. I can talk more about the graduate school experience, but that's a whole other journey because I'm now someone who is outside of higher ed, still supporting folks in higher ed, but I didn't end up landing that tenure track job that a lot of folks dream of. And it was because of an intentional set of pivots on my end. So I'm happy to pass the baton over to Mira so she could share more about her story.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:05:28]: Great. Thanks, Yvette. I love hearing Yvette's story all the time. I never get tired of it. It's so inspirational to me. I think we share a lot of experiences and that that is certainly what drew us to a very productive and I would say, very rewarding relationship in terms of our professional and also somewhat of course, that leads into the personal area, but being able to put this project together as book together. And we also worked together professionally at UC Santa Barbara, in the McNair Scholars Program. But I want to say for me, I think equally so mine wasn't like I wasn't in a Mellon Mays program, because when I went to grad school was like a couple decades before he vetted and we didn't have melon maze.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:06:06]: There was no McNair to speak of those hadn't yet thought of. We didn't even know what first gen meant or within the context that we do now. So certainly, when I was in college, I was a 1st generation low income underrepresented student, Chicana, Latina, Mexican American from the barrio and never was at UCLA or stepped, you know, went to UCLA grad school from San Jose in Nevada, which I grew up. And so coming to UCLA, I was stunned, cluster shock, for sure. And so I think for me, the thought of grad school hadn't at all been on my radar, and we barely even call it going to the university was something that kind of like, oh, I guess I'll do this. And so when I got to undergrad, it really happened in my 4th to my 5th year when I took a summer program. There was a summer program available for minority students. And so I participate in that, and that gave me sort of a small taste for research and in history in particular.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:06:52]: And I was really interested in recovering these histories that had not been told. And so just bringing back that sort of really important aspect of our history, Mexican American, Chicana, Chicano history, and ethnic history, and just in general that had been told. So that was kind of a little bit of my interest, my sort of moment there, I thought like, maybe this I had no idea what grad school was right when in there, keep saying like with blinders to some extent, certainly I had community and all kinds of support. That wouldn't have been possible without me being able to go through the process. But I think that moment when I decided, let's pursue grad school, I didn't really think as I think same same similar to as Yvette has said, I didn't really think I had other options. I thought like, do I go back home, I didn't really have a home anymore, per se. I was raised by my aunt and uncle. My parents died in a car accident when I was 12 years old.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:07:37]: So it was just my brother and I who survived the accident. We were the only siblings anyways in the family. And my grandmother also passed in the accident that we had. So it was pretty traumatic. And my aunt uncle did were wonderful people who raised us as to the best of their ability. And when we we stayed in the same town where I grew up, so we were there. But you know, when I after college, I thought I can't go back there. I mean, I love them, they'd probably be welcome me.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:08:02]: Maybe we had a very tiny home, they had 2 daughters, and they had their own lives to lead and also poor neighborhood and so forth. So I just thought, well, I needed you know, I have been in college by my on my own, and I felt very independent, and so that wasn't really an option. I just thought, like, well, let me go. It's sort of like if I knew then what I know now, I probably I'm not sure. I think I wouldn't have done it. There's different means, similar ends, but definitely, I was sort of took the plunge without quite knowing maybe that was a good thing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:26]: So both of you went through a process by which, as you said, both said, you didn't really think about grad school until later on, and you were pushed into it in many different ways. And you both chose your own paths. You both chose your own educational paths, your schools that you wanted to attend. As you were considering graduate school, when you got to that point where you decided that you wanted to go to graduate school, I'm sure that there were a number of different opportunities in front of you that you could have gone and studied at or decided to become a part of, but you chose a specific path in a specific school. Talk to me about what was going through each of your minds as you were making that final decision? And what was the tipping point for each of you on the program and the school that you ultimately chose?

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:09:24]: Once again, I feel like I had no other option. Let me say what happened in my case. At the time, I apply when I applied to graduate school, it was the beginning of my senior year in college. It was my 4th year. I had a year of a little less than a year of research experience under my belt, and I decided, okay. I'm gonna apply to a combination of master's programs and PhD programs. 4 and 4. 8, for some reason, it was a random number that sounded good to me.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:09:52]: It's a nice even number. And I ended up getting into 2 masters programs and 1 PhD program. I did make the decision to pivot from English literature to theater and performance studies as a PhD. So that was a transition, and, therefore, I didn't know anybody in that department at my campus at UCLA, but I applied there for the PhD, and that's where I got in. And, ultimately, it was a decision of that had to do with finances, with location, and, really, that's about it. If I could go back in time, there would have been a lot of other things that I would have considered. I would have especially played more of an emphasis on the importance of finding a really solid, supportive mentor, adviser, chair of my dissertation. I did not look into that.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:10:45]: Instead, I thought I got a full funding package. I'm gonna be here for at least 4 years. I'm close to home. Of course, it's a it's a yes. When I I once again, just to say to reiterate, I did not realize that there were so many other things to consider when making a a decision aside from location and finances.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:11:06]: Yeah. So for me, somewhat similar in that. Again, I was definitely didn't know what I was doing at the time. I had a taste for research. I did have a supportive mentor, And the idea of working with him and doing a project on the 19th century is what what was fascinating and because there was very little research done in Mexican American history in the 19th century, especially on women, that was my interest to sort of go in there and tell it like it is right. This is what we were very ambitious when we're grad students, but that's good. But when so I only applied to 5 schools. Nobody told me to think of how many.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:11:38]: I didn't have a you know, again, had no direction. I just applied. And, of course, it was a top school. So I think it was, like, Yale. I can't remember what else. Stanford, UC San Diego, and these other schools, and UCLA where I was already an undergrad. And that personal relationship I had with that mentor made that so that's the only school I got into essentially. So it was he he was able to open the door for me to go in and also provide a 1 year of funding.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:11:58]: And because of affirmative action programs at the time, I was able to get a 4 year package after that. After my first year, I was able to so that provided quite a bit of stability in terms of funding. So that made it possible for me to go into this. What seemed like an exciting one, and we have no idea. Right? I think should have had practice like shadowing professors to see what life is really like. Because it's a it's a different lifestyle. I wouldn't say I could say challenging for some people. Definitely.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:12:22]: I tell people give them little tips of what is involved. But for me, I also got that 1 year funding. I didn't really consider other options of what to do. Of course, now I know that having research skills, you can do many things. I did look at law school, I looked at the catalog and looked at the courses, and they just seemed so boring. I thought, like, God, I don't wanna do that. I just knew it. So I wanted to be able to read in research.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:12:41]: The research part, I think, has always been my drive.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:44]: Now every student that goes into graduate programs, whether it be master's degrees, doctorate degrees, law school, whatever it is, there is a transition. There's a transition from undergrad into grad school, just in general about how you're educated, but there's so many other transitions that you go through as well. Talk to me about the transitions that each of you had to go through to be able to make that switch from undergrad to grad student, and what you had to do to set yourself up for success at the beginning of the journey, and what you had to do throughout the journey to maintain that success for yourself.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:13:24]: When I got in and I said yes, because I was switching departments and disciplines, I thought to myself, oh my goodness. They made a mistake. And now I have to play catch up. And I spent all summer trying to read all these foundational theater and performance studies texts, not knowing that a lot of it was critical theory. And I needed support in getting through those dense texts. And if I could go back in time, I would have relaxed. I would have slowed down. I would have enjoyed my last summer in a long time.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:13:59]: I would have had off. So that's one thing that I did that I thought was gonna help me prepare, but it I don't know how much it actually helped. There were things that happened for me in my grad school journey that certainly helped me to make that pivot outside of the tenure track that I didn't know were going to help me. And it was just me leaning into my intuition and what felt good for me. In my 1st year of graduate school, everybody told me focus on your studies, focus on your research, and I was presented with an opportunity to become a graduate mentor for undergraduates, for Mellon May Fellows, and also for students who were involved in undergraduate research at the at the Center For Undergraduate Research at UCLA. And something just told me, I really wanna do this. It sounds like a great opportunity. I said yes, and I absolutely fell in love with it.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:14:49]: That's when I realized, wow. I have a passion for service work, for mentoring, for guiding students. And this is something that not only do I enjoy, but it comes easy to me. So I kept that in the back of my head. Okay. In the future, I wanna make sure that I figure out a career where I can incorporate more of that service work. That was one thing. The second thing that I did was well, this wasn't something that directly helped me to prepare for my career, but helped me prepare for life was I actually became a mom in graduate school.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:15:21]: And in becoming a mom, not only was it the single hardest thing for me to go through physically, emotionally, psychologically, but it was also one of the most empowering things for me to go through because I learned how to advocate for my child. And in learning how to advocate for my child, I learned how to advocate for myself. And in tending to my child's needs, I realized I had my own needs, and I became aware. Woah. Hold up. There so many nontraditional students on campus, so many different types of populations and folks who are not being served as best as they can, which led to me getting involved in advocacy work, student activist work, and really leaning into developing a community of support groups, including mother scholars, but also support groups of women of color scholars, of theater scholars, of just folks at different intersections of the work that I did. And in building these communities and support systems, that's what kept me going. And it wasn't until I got to the end of my graduate school time and started working full time, that's how I met Milos, was by, becoming the assistant, later the associate director of the McNair Scholars Program, that I've realized these were key moments and instances that led to me discovering what I was good at, discovering what was helping me out, and it's actually the type of guidance I offer to students.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:16:43]: If they're really struggling, I say you need to build your support system. You need to build your community. You need to figure out what you're good at and lean into those things.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:16:51]: Yeah. I would say for me that it was a little bit different in terms of, like, my focus. So I think my focus and, again, I think I was less conscious of what I was doing at the moment and what it meant for me to go to grad school as a Chicano, Latina immigrant at the time. For me, it was more focused around my intent was more focused around the intellectual work that I wanted to do and sort of the contributions I wanted to provide academically. Like, for me, it was repairing, filling, recovering these stories that filling the literature, addressing these histories that had not been told, and providing them for the community. Right? For to be able to be able to provide the community these mirrors that have been that have been absent for so long in textbooks and history books and everywhere media and so forth. So I saw myself contributing to that. And that was what drove me in grad school to keep doing that.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:17:38]: Because I'll tell you the Q1, the first semester, whatever you wanna call it, was terrible. Like, I felt like every week I went home and cried. I had a headache. I thought, like, what am I doing here? So every week I wanted to quit. You know, I just thought this is, like, in reference to what Yvette was saying, the imposter phenomenon was real. So I just kept saying, like, what am I doing here? And so definitely the Q1, and I didn't do very well in one of my classes, I remember getting a b or a b minus, which essentially means you're on very thin ice, right? Because there's 2 grades, there's 3 grades and a plus an a and an a minus. I think or no. Maybe it's an a a minus and b plus.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:18:11]: I think I gotta b plus in one class with this very well known historian. And so I was kinda crushed, and I thought instead of running away with the tail between my legs as they say or any kind of shame, I thought, like, I'll show her or I'll show them. So it really fueled my desire to represent, and I really gave it my all. So I guess it's part of that imposter phenomenon when we think we have to work twice and 3 times as hard. But for me, it was very much trying to fulfill an academic trying to an academic space trying to give back to the community in terms of like, what it needed, what I thought it needed in terms of history. So So those that was sort of my call. And this idea of knowledge is power. That was something that my peers and I and my peers were so critical to get into grad school.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:18:52]: To 2 people in particular, that's how it kind of felt like we had a big number and then started dwindling and dwindling over the years. And there was 3 of us left standing, so to speak. And so we always had this commitment to our fields and to ourselves and to our to our community to keep doing this work. Or else at the end of the day, we wouldn't have finished. What's ultimately as well, it's equally to your project, to your subjects that you want this academic work you're doing. For me, that's what it was, and also to my community. So those two things really kept me when everything else seemed so challenging and you were fighting against it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:23]: Now I appreciate both of you talking about your own journeys because I think that this leads really well into not only the book that you wrote, but also into grad school FEMTuring that I mentioned at the beginning. And I know that Grad School FEMTuring LLC was founded by you, Yvette, and it provides 1st gen students of color with support, skills, and tools to empower themselves to thrive in grad school and beyond. And I guess, could you take a couple of minutes here and elaborate a little bit more on the concept of mentoring and its distinctness from traditional mentoring.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:20:02]: Yes. Of course. So one of the the reasons why this book even exists is because of the femtorship relationship that Milos and I both have. In the book, we wanted to make sure that we clarified what we meant by ment by femtorship as opposed to mentorship, and we explicitly state that femtorship is a type of mentoring that incorporates an intersectional feminist lens. And in doing so, it takes into account a holistic perspective or providing a holistic type of support that is inclusive of different aspects of an individual's identity that may impact the kind of support that they need. This includes all the identity markers, race, ethnicity, class, gender, disability, etcetera. And so for us, it was important to make a nod to that and also to call attention to the fact that a lot of times this type of work is service work, and a lot of times it's also gender type of work. And so for us, we wanted to make that distinction because traditional forms of mentorship aren't always providing that holistic type of support.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:21:10]: Yes. They're still providing guidance. They might still be teaching. They might still be offering insights to the mentee, but it doesn't necessarily call into mind that you know, the multiple different aspects of support that a student may need. So that's why we wanted to make that distinction and also to make that nod in the book that not only was it inspired by our relationship with Milos being my own femtor, she was once my supervisor, and it was one of the first times I say this, and I can't keep stating this enough. Meeting Miroslava was one of the first times of me experiencing someone who saw me as my full self, not just my professional self, and who provided support and who advocated on my on my behalf. In fact, when by the time she came in as my supervisor, I was on my way out. I was already planning my exit strategy, and she was trying to find ways to keep me in.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:22:06]: I was like, I love you, but I've made my decision. And also thank you for showing me that there is another way of doing things. So, yes, it's a nod to that, and it's also a nod to the podcast, which is also by the same title, Grad School Fem Touring. A lot of the material we've shared is material that we have shared 1 on 1 in our own supporting students and also that I have shared publicly on the podcast so that everybody has access to this

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:22:32]: information. Also adding to what Yvette just so beautifully stated, a lot of what we were most what we provide in the book, right, comes from our personal experiences. But also I would add that a lot of it comes based from research and research evidence based practices that is in the research that we have used in McNair, but also that we have used in our own work and certainly Yvette in our own work. I just, right, holistic approach that's evidence based practice that we know that that works most effectively with the student populations that we're dealing with, or the the, you know, the wraparound services or the sort of taking the whole the whole approach, not just providing mentorship, or providing a research experience. You need to provide them other tools. So that's one of the things that we incorporate as well. So it's not just like, here anecdotal experiences, and we're gonna make this fit for everyone. No.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:23:17]: We're basing our our work on the research that's out there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:20]: Now, Miro, you just talked about your personal experiences. You both kinda shared some of your own personal experiences in the journeys that both of you went on. How did your own personal experiences as first gen students of color shape the advice and the guidance that you're providing in the book, but also, Yvette, in the podcast? Sure.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:23:43]: I think as we've kind of been implicitly stating is that fundamental to where the book deeply shaped our own experiences have deeply shaped the book. I think that Yvette's perspective and our experience or many years of doing this work have helped the book take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Right? To be able to structure the book the way it's structured. It's structured very intentionally around the different points that people need to consider for graduate school and how that process is laid out. So she did a wonderful job in doing that, and I sort of chimed in and how we're needed. But because she has that direct experience to 1 on 1 and doing that kind of work where I'm more an academic space, and we do that. I do that in different ways through McNair. I think that you've had brought that very much so.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:24:22]: So definitely our personal experiences, I mean, the need and the drive for the demand. I mean, Yvette said many times, as I've talked with her about how she had this book in mind for years, I've done lots of articles around professional development around writing around balancing work life around power and privilege. I've done all these articles I never thought of now that we've been talking about it, like, this is a coal you know, coalesce all these ideas or integrate all these ideas in this book has been. I did it without thinking, but I think that thinking about it intentionally, but Yvette certainly has. And I'm so grateful for that that this oh, here it is. You know, here's what I've been doing little pieces, little piece work, but it's integrated in a whole space. And hopefully, it might be a follow-up. We'll see.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:25:03]: I want to add to that because Miros mentioned that we came together to write this book and that the book is shaped by the podcast and by the support that we've been providing, the guidance that we've been providing to students. And for me, my experience in undergrad was one of feeling like the space was not only very confusing and difficult to navigate, but also very inaccessible. I didn't know when I was an undergraduate that I was neurodivergent. It only became something for me to when my own child was diagnosed on the autism spectrum. This was 7 years ago. And as I did more research, I realized, oh, we've got a lot in common. There's something here. I've always struggled with x, y, and z, and I've always found student norms to be very confusing.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:25:50]: So every step of the way, when I was navigating college, when I was navigating graduate school, I had so many questions, not enough answers. I just wanted someone to show me the how. Just show me how. And so it you talk to anybody who has known me for over a decade, I was I was someone whom I created binders. I literally before we had Google Drive, I had my binders of handouts. And I would start to even when I worked at the undergraduate research center, I created binders so students could come and pull up the binders with the tabs, how to do this, how to send an email, how to because those are the concerns that I had, and I found in gathering these resources and sharing them, more people were benefiting from the things that I found to be struggles. And that's actually how the podcast, came about. I was running out of bandwidth in supporting students.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:26:40]: I had a lot of folks who were asking me to mentor them beyond the McNair Scholars Program. I only had enough hours in the day, and I thought, I keep repeating myself. I sound like a broken record. I need to do something about it. I had podcasting experience from starting a podcast with another collective. And so I created a podcast and started sharing it just with my mentees, mentees, and then the mentee shared it with the mother and another. And all of this unfolded into, again, what was once this frustration of wondering why is there no book that's teaching me this to then developing these resources over time so that by the time we sat down to write it, we wrote it in 6 months.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:18]: And I think each of you talked a little bit about imposter syndrome. And as you went through your own journeys, that you felt it in some ways. And I've heard that many times from individuals that go through graduate school that at least one point in their journey, they're going to have that feeling of why am I here? Why was I selected? What am I doing? Am I qualified? Lots of questions like that. As you have been femtoring other students, what are some strategies that you found that you have been sharing with those students that they can employ to overcome those feelings of imposter syndrome throughout that journey that they're going on?

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:28:03]: So one of the distinctions that we made in the book is, initially, we were writing about the imposter syndrome, and then what popped up for us was that, actually, some folks are now naming it syndrome, as a nod to the fact that this is not a pathologizing thing. This is not an individual issue. It's not an oversight on your end, but rather it's a systemic issue. And when you think about it as a systemic issue and as a phenomenon, something that's happening to multiple people, not just you, then you can start to think about, so what is it that's going on that's making you feel this way? There's there there is even scholarship. I know there's a scholar who coined the term imposterization, which is when systems and spaces are making you to feel like an imposter. But in this case, well, it's it's important to name it and to understand it and to know that it happens especially among high achieving individuals and even more so if you have identity markers at inter at multiple intersections of oppressed identities. And so that's just something to keep in mind that it's very common. It's not just you.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:29:12]: And if you are experiencing it, one of the things that I often remind folks, and I have to remind myself this all the time too, is to keep affirming myself and to surround myself with people that affirm me. Because sometimes we're existing in spaces where we are the only one of whatever marker you're in, and that may make you feel isolated or perhaps not affirmed. Another thing I remind people and myself is to embrace compassion and compassion for others and compassion for yourself by reminding yourself that this is actually a really common feeling, and it does not represent any kind of individual feeling. I think it's important for folks to know their strengths, identify their strengths. So that way when you're in any space and even if you're the only one, you know what you bring to that table. And then lastly, sometimes you're feeling the imposter phenomenon because you're committed to constantly growing. And when you're growing, you're going to feel uncomfortable. And I'd rather be struggling with the imposter phenomenon than with the Dunning Kruger effect where I'm overestimating my abilities or perhaps not challenging myself enough.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:30:23]: So those are just a couple things to keep in mind.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:30:26]: Yeah. Those are really great, Yvette. If it helps me think about sort of talks about approaches that I think about in that way, but provide a broader sort of focus. I think exactly what Aveda said, I want us to build these communities of empowerment by finding like minded people, your peers, or could be mentors or femtors who've had similar experiences. I think it's also important to share your experiences with others, share resources. This is why I think I've survived now thinking about it why maybe my whole 20 some plus career has been about. I know a part of it is battling imposter phenomenon, for sure. And so sharing these resources, just knowing that you're not alone.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:30:59]: Right? It's just said, that you're not the 1st person to experience. There are many books, essays, blogs, and podcasts now, many more resources I think to help you with that experience. Also, another thing you could do to write about your experiences, that's something that you're comfortable with, maybe you can journal or maybe even write write first person essays and write them on a blog or something like that. That's always empowering. Other things I've done throughout my career is I organized workshops. I invite experienced guests to talk about different topics and so forth to help to demystify this experience and to show us that you're not, you know, it's not you, it's the system. I would say not to do this in your 1st year in grad school, maybe your 3rd year, maybe beyond or perhaps find other grad students to organize this with you, get some, you know, advocate for some funding in your department, or tell them, you know, put pressure on them, do a survey and see what kinds of resources student need or want to help with this. So I think that that's just some of the things that you could do.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:31:51]: Unfortunately, many times it falls on us to this kind of work. But if we get strength in numbers, that's something that perhaps can change practices in your department and then slowly change that culture.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:01]: And, Miros, you said earlier when you were talking about your own journey that when you got into UCLA, you had the opportunity to be able to take advantage of affirmative action programs that helped you to be able to get in and to be supported in that journey. How has the end of affirmative action influenced your advice, but also, Yvette, your advice for underrepresented students seeking graduate education?

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:32:29]: Yeah. I've thought about this a lot actually, you know, when the ruling came down last year, the end of last year, at the federal level. And I think a lot of us, well, sadly, were not too shocked or surprised. And actually affirmative action has been dismantled almost I was just doing that look as a historian and going through this sort of timeline. It was only 15 years when the first real assault came against, affirmative action. So affirmative action programs, early 19 sixties, the ideas for them, then they hit the federal level. And with these sort of looking at race and sex and ethnicity and other f factors for as a way to try to level the playing field, to try to create opportunities that had been not there for since day 1. Right? I I think that's a way.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:33:06]: But within 15 years, we see the Bakke case. Right? The the you're probably familiar with it in Michigan, The Bakke case where it's supreme court ruled that race could be used as a factor in admissions. They couldn't use like, there could be no racial quotas. Like, certain numbers could be held. Certainly, that was a win for, you know, looking at race based affirmative action programs. But I think what it did is to open the door to these sorts of, oh, okay. Now we're question this can be played out at the at the federal level. So what we had in California around each state took its own.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:33:33]: In California, we had prop 209 in 1996, which essentially banned affirmative action. And even our regents the year before had already, like, ended affirmative action right before it happened at the state level. And so we see the dismantling of these sort of small window over the 19 sixties period. Right? This this moment we thought there would be all this liberalism, and it was the retrenchment was real and swift. I think in the south, we know it quite never too cold. So there was a very strong so unfortunately, within a couple of decades, the retrenchment started to occur. And so but I think in the process at the same time, we've been putting into place other ways to sort of make up for I'm not sure what the right word is, but it doesn't quite when affirmative action ended in California in 2009, the numbers dropped significantly at, like, UC Berkeley and at UCLA for underrepresented students. We saw that happening.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:34:22]: And so while we, you know, affirmative action was so important in creating those, there's other ways that we can sort of that we work with. Right? And McNair is one example. Mellon May's programs are other ways that we can get involved to help continue to show that these spaces are welcoming, that they embrace students, they support students, provide resources. I think we need to go beyond just feeling welcome. Of course, inclusion is important, but so is equity and so is a nod to diversity and all in the name of social justice. So the things we can do, I think that are important, again, going back to holistic review. Right? When we're looking at affirmative action, maybe we can take risk into consideration, but maybe we can look at the high school that they attended. What does that have to say about who they are and how that's impacted them? Right? Perhaps providing grants and fellowships for low income students is another way we can 1st generation support programs.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:35:05]: I think in California, we have this huge first generation initiative at the UC and I think at the Cal State. That's part of it too, I think, in trying to make up for that, the inability to help students who need it the most. So, again, looking at all of these factors, I think other schools also look at the relationship. The University of Southern California looks at the history of student of a community to the university as a factor, if that's something that's important for them to look at. So we need to work twice or three times as hard to make these spaces welcoming for students.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:35:33]: And I just wanna add something just really quickly. In light of everything that Mira has just shared, it's even more critical and important for students themselves to really take control and be more intentional about the process of preparing for graduate school, which includes building community, tapping into their networks, getting that support. Because in addition to hopefully more graduate programs implementing a holistic review of their admissions process. It is important to have people who have your back, who will vouch for you, who will support you, who will provide guidance. That's what's gonna help you. When there are you know, when these other resources might not be available, these other policies might not be available, what you do have is, again, your network, your community, and keep leaning into what is available.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:36:21]: Yeah. Essentially, when the federal government refuses to support you in your academic in your I should say your educational journey, it says like, well, no. It's everyone's the same. There's no difference here. It's like, it's such a low you know, we know what that is. That there's a level playing field. We all come to the table with the same resources and so forth. The only people who would benefit from affirmative action have somehow like, oh, no.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:36:39]: They don't even talk about it or like that wasn't what it was for them. It was something else. Right? We know that that narrative or it's like having this amnesia about what took place. Don't get me started on this. But this is why another impetus why we wrote this book. Right? That we were like, okay. We can't rely on the government. We can't rely on our state leaders.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:36:54]: We need to like, again, I don't wanna say, like, we're doing it alone because we're Yvette and I are not doing it. It's a community. Right? But we wanna put in our little grain of sand to contribute towards empowering a community. Right? This motto that how we open our book, lifting as we climb. I mean, that is still is so inspirational and thinking like, yes, This is what we wanted to.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:12]: Now each of you talked about the fact that when you applied to graduate school, some of your decisions were made for you, but you applied to numerous schools. And at times, you may have one offer. You could have 5 offers. You could have many offers. It really just depends on you as a student, but also as a depending on where you applied and lots of other factors. What are some practical steps that students can take after accepting a graduate school offer to ensure that smooth transition? But then even before that acceptance, what are some things that they can do to whittle through the minutiae, to try to figure out for themselves what is gonna be that right choice for themselves?

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:38:00]: I'll start with what to do before you say yes. So let's say, hypothetically speaking, you've applied and you are under this ideal scenario where you have multiple competing competitive offers. And you've been admitted to all your top choice schools and you can't decide. What do you do? There's a lot that you can do. First off, congratulations. Celebrate yourself because you've reached a huge milestone. 2nd, this is a good time to really figure out what your nonnegotiables are and find out if these different offers and options meet those nonnegotiables. Maybe your nonnegotiable is you don't wanna be at a commuter school.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:38:44]: Maybe your nonnegotiable is you don't wanna go somewhere where you don't have full funding. Maybe your nonnegotiable is you don't wanna be a certain distance away from home. Whatever those nonnegotiables are, make sure to keep that in mind. 2, talk to people. There's not enough information, no amount of information on any outdated website that's gonna give you a good sense of what it's like to go there. You need to talk to real humans. You need to talk to graduate students, professors to get a sense of what is it actually like here because no single department is the same. Every department has different a different culture, different faculty, different resources, etcetera.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:39:25]: So please talk to the graduate students to find out what's it gonna be like to work with the person you have in mind to work with, talk to professors to find out what is their advising and mentoring style. Get that information from real people. And then I don't wanna discount the importance, especially for low income students, of really taking a close look at their funding offers. That's why in the book, we provide sample funding packages, like actual scenarios. It might look like this with a multiyear funding and might look like that for a postbac offer for a master's degree, and making sure that you create a budget. And if you don't know how, ask someone for support in creating a budget to determine whether or not you can actually survive off of that funding. Sometimes you might get a lower offer, but that offer is in Ohio, And cost of living there is not bad. Whereas, you get a much higher offer, but it's in New York City.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:40:22]: Have you looked at rent in New York City? So these are a couple of things. There's many, many other things that we say for you to keep in mind. We mentioned that in the book, but definitely nonnegotiables, talk to people, and figure out your budget. Those are some good places to start.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:40:36]: Yeah. I would just add, yeah, there's many things to consider certainly when thinking about grad school. Yvette is really good at helping us think about what to do before even deciding. So even, like, thinking about is grad school for me. Right? She is really good. I would just thought, like, yes. Like, that was my answer. Of course, there's other things to consider.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:40:53]: I think it's also, as Yvette saying, it's true to talk to people, the graduate student experience is so different than the undergraduate, right, the undergraduate, we see different, we're in different spaces, we don't see what goes on behind the wall or behind the door. And in grad school, we do to some extent, but it's really a lot of grad students as well, don't necessarily want to hang out and chill out on campus, right? They want to find a community outside. So that's really important. What What kind of institution are you looking at? Is it an HSI, Hispanic serving institution or minority serving? Is it a PWI predominantly white institution? Is that important to you? That's really, you know, a good question to ask yourself. Look at grad student resources and support groups. These affinity groups are really, really important. Many schools have them. So and, we just wanna lead to something that Yvette said earlier about her own experience is something that we write about the book, and that is about taking time to rest before you're going into this intense experience in instead of trying to get a jump on.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:41:45]: I don't think I did that. I remember reading literature, stuff I'd never read, like Emily Bronte. I was like, what's that? I grew up in the water. We didn't read this, and we weren't readers in my home. Not till later did that how so I started reading that stuff. It was good. It just kept me, like, sort of in the mix, but I think the idea of resting. But in the book, we provide lots of tips of what to think about and how to approach questions to ask.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:42:03]: It's really important. We would encourage your listeners if they're planning grad school, if they have a preview day or an open house to attend as much as possible, ask questions. They're there to woo you, so take advantage of that. And those preview days are very helpful. Well, what both of you

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:17]: have been sharing has been amazing. I know we're getting close to the end of our time. I wanted to be able to take a moment to have you share a little bit more about where can people find the book, the podcast, and more to be able to connect with the resources that you've been mentioning and also tap in to some of the femtoring that you're talking about and that you're offering to people as well.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:42:39]: You can find the book by going to is grad school for me dot com. It's available at most retailers right now, and you can get a freebie on the site, that exact site, if you wanna get the book and get the free workbook that we provide. We're also thinking of creating a study guide for programs and for instructors that could help them as they guide their scholars. So more to come soon. Get on my email list if you want to learn more about that study guide, which, of course, we're gonna provide free of charge as a resource. And then for the podcast, you can go to grad school femtouring.com. That's like mentor, but f e m torgradschoolfemtoring. And, yeah, you can reach me directly on Instagram or LinkedIn if you are on social media, and I'll have Mira share how we can have you reach her too.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:43:30]: I wanted to put another plug in for the website, grad school femtoring.com/book. We've also uploaded some of other podcasts that we've done. That's a takeaway from this podcast. This is start here first. But you can go there and look at other podcasts that focus around the same kinds of topics, and those podcasts are wonderful. I'll listen to them as well. So there's a wealth of knowledge out there. Sometimes just finding the time when he can listen to all of them.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:43:52]: But for me, the easiest way to get in contact us through email, chavezgarciaucsb.edu. So it's my faculty website, email, excuse me, I I don't do social media very much. I find that I don't have as much time to do my other work. And so my other work is what pays the bills. So I do my other work. And also through the UCSB History Department website, I'm there. I try to update that page and we have a book all splashed out there. But I also mentioned different areas of research that I work on, and I'm always happy.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:44:20]: And because I've done so much workshops and advice around applying to fellowship. I remember somebody emailed me from, I wanna say, Oklahoma, because I had put up some a session on applying to the Ford Foundation of Fellowships, which no longer are gonna be available sadly. But somebody emailed me out of the blue and I said, sure, I'll look at your stuff. You know, it's part of the calling. And I feel as long as I have the time, I can do that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:44:41]: Well, Yvette, Miroslava, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate both of you sharing your own journeys today, sharing this amazing resource for others to be able to connect in with, and I wish you both the best.

Dr. Miroslava Chavez-Garcia [00:44:56]: Thank you so much, Christopher. We're so happy that you have us here and give us a a moment to sort of use your platform to, would you say, amplify our voices and the voices of others. So thank you.

Dr. Yvette Martinez-Vu [00:45:05]: Yes. Thank you so much. We really enjoyed the conversation.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:30]: The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit umflint.edu/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at [email protected].

Embarking on a journey to graduate school comes with its own set of successes and challenges. The path to achieving success in graduate school is seldom a straightforward one. In this enlightening conversation, we sit down with Dr. David Luke, the chief diversity officer at the University of Michigan-Flint, to delve into Dr. Luke's experiences and insights on navigating the world of graduate school. Aspiring and current graduate students can gain invaluable knowledge from Dr. Luke's journey, including his motivations for continuing his education, the pivotal experiences that shaped his graduate school experience, and the essential tips for finding success.

Motivation and Transition:

Dr. Luke's journey began at Grand Valley State University, where his early academic path was rooted in business and accounting. However, it was his experiences in sociology and the impactful support he received from the Office of Multicultural Affairs that sparked a shift in his educational trajectory. He describes his realization that he wanted to be the one facilitating the meaningful experiences he encountered in the classroom as a pivotal moment. This realization prompted him to pursue a career in higher education, leading him to the decision to continue his education beyond his undergraduate years. For aspiring graduate students, this underscores the significance of self-discovery and finding a genuine passion as key factors in shaping one's academic journey.

Preparing for Graduate School:

Dr. Luke candidly shares the challenges he faced as he transitioned from the structured world of undergraduate studies to the more intellectually demanding and self-directed nature of graduate school. His experiences in accounting had not fully prepared him for the rigors of graduate-level coursework, presenting a steep learning curve. To navigate this transition, he emphasizes the importance of self-discipline, time management, and a clear understanding of the commitment required for success in graduate school. Additionally, he advises prospective students to thoroughly research potential advisors and faculty members to ensure a good fit, highlighting the pivotal role that an advisor plays in a student's academic journey.

Nurturing Resilience:

Dr. Luke's journey was also marked by significant life events, including the birth of his first child, which taught him the importance of resilience and adaptability. Despite facing setbacks that delayed his progress, he advises students to embrace life's unpredictability and its impact on their academic journey. Given the marathon-like nature of graduate school, Dr. Luke emphasizes the significance of having a clear understanding of one's purpose and motivation, serving as a constant source of drive throughout the challenging years of study.

The Impact of Graduate Education on Career:

As Dr. Luke progressed through his master's and doctorate programs in sociology, he gained deep insights into race and racism, equipping him with the tools to address systemic issues of inequity. His academic background in sociology profoundly influences his work as the chief diversity officer, allowing him to apply the principles of the sociological imagination to address equity issues within his institution. For aspiring graduate students interested in careers in diversity, equity, and inclusion, Dr. Luke's journey serves as a testament to the profound impact of a rigorous graduate education in shaping one's approach to effecting meaningful change within institutions.

Evaluating the Campus Culture:

Graduate school aspirants often grapple with the challenge of identifying institutions with a strong culture of diversity, equity, and inclusion. Dr. Luke underscores the need to thoroughly assess the structure and resources devoted to diversity, equity, and inclusion within prospective institutions. He emphasizes the importance of evaluating the outcomes of these efforts, as well as the sincerity of the institution's leadership in fostering a truly inclusive environment. Additionally, he advises students to engage with current graduate students to gain insight into their experiences and the level of support and encouragement available within the academic community.

Dr. Luke's candid reflections provide invaluable insights for individuals considering or currently navigating the terrain of graduate education. His experiences underscore the significance of identifying intrinsic motivation, fostering resilience, and aligning one's academic pursuits with a clear purpose. As students embark on their own journeys to graduate school, they can draw upon Dr. Luke's wisdom to navigate the challenges and triumphs inherent in the pursuit of advanced education.

Dr. David Luke's journey serves as a beacon of inspiration for prospective and current graduate students, providing a candid account of the trials, growth, and triumphs experienced on the path to advanced education. By embracing these insights, aspiring graduate students can better position themselves for success, armed with the wisdom and guidance shared by Dr. Luke.

By incorporating Dr. Luke's invaluable advice, you can chart a course that honors their passions, nurtures resilience, and aligns with their long-term aspirations, ultimately laying the groundwork for a successful and impactful journey through graduate school.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, I love being able to sit down, talk with you, to work with you as you are walking through this journey that you're on, this journey that may lead you to graduate school. You may already be in graduate school. You may see the light at the end of the tunnel because you're in graduate school, and you see the door down the road, and you're getting ready to graduate. No matter where you are, you are on a journey. And for me, the biggest thing that I want for you is for you to find success in this journey that you're on.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:51]: That's why every week, I love being able to sit down, talk to you, bring you different hints, tips, resources, things that you can think about that can help you to add some tools to your own toolbox that will provide you with some perspective and offer you some opportunities to be able to learn and grow. That's also why I love bringing you different guests every week that have gone before you, people that have had different paths that they've walked on, different journeys that they've gone through to lead them to where they are today, but all of them have gone to graduate school in the past. This week, we got another great guest with us today. Doctor David Luke is with us, and and David is the chief diversity officer at the University of Michigan Flint. And he did his undergraduate work at Grand Valley State University, but then went on from there and got both a master's and a doctorate from the University of Kentucky. So we're gonna be talking to him about his journey, and I'm really excited to have him here with us today. David, thanks so much for being here today.

Dr. David Luke [00:01:54]: Thank you, Chris. I'm excited to be here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:56]: Well, I'm really excited to have you here. And I guess first and foremost, I wanna I wanna turn the clock back in time. I'm gonna go back to those days at Grand Valley State University when you were studying business and accounting as well as sociology. And at some point during your time at Grand Valley, after your time at Grand Valley, something was sparked in you. Something was sparked in you that made you decide that you wanted to continue your education. Talk to me about that. And what made you decide that you wanted to continue that education and go further?

Dr. David Luke [00:02:30]: So I went to Grand Valley. I graduated high school, went to Grand Valley. I'm from Grand Rapids, so I was basically going down the street, although Allendale was never really a destination for me. I hadn't actually been to the campus that I would end up being at until the summer before I started. And as a 18 year old college student, I didn't have the clearest vision for what I intended to do. So I knew that one of the outcomes that I should have with college is to get a job. So I went into college with a general business major and was persuaded by some accounting faculty to go into accounting, and then was persuaded by them even though I didn't do that great relatively in the intro to accounting classes, but then was persuaded by them to get a CPA license. All of these are good things for job prospects, So that was appealing to me.

Dr. David Luke [00:03:23]: Part of the requirements for being a CPA include 150 college credits, and it doesn't really matter what the discipline is. And so I had in undergrad in my general education taken some sociology courses. The first one I took was the sociology of the civil rights movement because in the general education, at the time, there was a civil rights, you could pick a theme. You take 3 classes within a theme, and the theme that I chose was the civil rights movement. And so I took that class. I took intro, and I thought, I like this, and I would like to major in this. But even more so, these experiences that I'm having in this classroom are things that I might like to reproduce someday. I would like to be the person facilitating some of this.

Dr. David Luke [00:04:03]: Specifically, sociology gave tools and language and a structure to organize thoughts that I had sort of abstractly in my mind, especially as pertains to race and racism. And so helped me to develop a more sophisticated understanding and and really then think about what are ways we could do to intervene to disrupt systemic racism. And cocurricularly, I received a lot of support through the office of multicultural affairs at Grand Valley. And there was a person there at the time, the late dean Oliver Wilson, who was the dean of multicultural affairs, who was over that office. And I wanted his job, essentially. I thought, oh, I could really find fulfillment out of that. So I graduated. We were heading into the great recession at the time.

Dr. David Luke [00:04:45]: I had my accounting degree. And my plan was I would work 10 or 15 years in accounting, earn some money, and then transition at some point to a career in higher ed, whether it was as a sociology professor or in sort of multicultural affairs, diversity, equity, and inclusion work. I lasted two and a half years in public accounting. I did 3 busy seasons, and that was enough for me to want to study for the GRE. Now along the way, also, I was taking the CPA exams. I had to take and pass 4 parts of this big exam within a calendar year. I did that, But so my my life from January through end of March was consumed by busy season work. And then for the 1st year outside of that time, when I would come home at 5, I would eat, and then I would study for 3 to 4 hours a night for the exam.

Dr. David Luke [00:05:35]: So there was no balance for me for work life balance. And and in retrospect, I think had there been, I would have probably lasted longer in accounting. I could've left public accounting and gone somewhere where the hours are a little bit more reasonable. But I don't regret my choice to apply for graduate school. But even, you know, as I mentioned, you know, going into undergrad, not really knowing what I was doing and and choosing business, I knew disciplinarily that I wanted to study sociology, but the process for applying for graduate schools and understanding how to do that kind of in a thoughtful, deliberate, intelligent way was not something that I was super familiar with, especially given that I was not coming from academia. Right? So I I've been a couple years removed. I had a lot of support from sociology faculty at Grand Valley who helped walk me through the process and write recommendations and all of that. But I still, in retrospect, think some of the students that I work with at U of M Flint that are pursuing grad school are much more well prepared than I was in many ways.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:33]: Now you ended up at the University of Kentucky, and you probably could have gone many different places to be able to study sociology. There's many graduate programs across the country. Talk to me about the thought process that you went through and what ended up leading you to the University of Kentucky for sociology?

Dr. David Luke [00:06:56]: One of the primary reason that I went to Grand Valley for undergrad was financial. I was offered the best scholarship package there. I was able to go there and graduate without incurring debt. I applied to 10 different schools for sociology PhD programs. The strategy was have, like, 3 maybe reach schools that, you know, you might not get in, but if I did, it'd be great. 3 or 4 kind of I'll probably be able to get in in their quality, and then a few that you're sure you'll get in. What ended up happening in that process was and I had applied to Kentucky in part because I I knew someone that moved down there, and I had some familiarity with the university. And part of the choice was, again, financial.

Dr. David Luke [00:07:38]: I was a funded graduate student at at UK. But, also, I I went on a visit there and met with the person who would be my adviser, and I was a bit overwhelmed by him. He has a very intense intellectual curiosity and a breadth of knowledge and, you know, so I I met with him and he's rattling off all of this stuff that, you know, is kind of making my head spin. But I knew that I could learn a lot and grow a lot there and that, I would be well supported. And interestingly enough, the director of graduate studies at the times had had some interesting connections to Michigan. She was a grad student at Michigan State, but had done undergrad at Aquinas College, which is in Grand Rapids, and had a professor there who was one of my professors at Grand Valley when I was in undergrad. So it was a small world thing, But there were a few couple other programs, and I and I actually think in many ways I was an odd fit at Kentucky. They have strengths in Appalachian sociology, rural sociology, and then they were kind of as I was leaving in 2018, the areas of emphasis tended to be more criminology and medical sociology, and none of those really fit with me.

Dr. David Luke [00:08:42]: My interests were in race and racism and also in work and organizations. So I had some experiences from my time in public accounting that sort of informed more of an interest in in work and organizations. And so I did some research and and work around that also and taught that class while I was in grad school too, sociology of work and organizations. But, yeah, it was a practical matter of getting a a funded assistantship. And and I was a research assistant on NSF funded projects for the 1st 3 years that ultimately resulted in a coauthored book. And then I also having met some of the people down there kind of solidified things.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:20]: Now not everybody may understand because you did go from a master's to a doctorate. And as you said, just a second ago, you were applying for a doctorate program. And we've talked about this on the show in the past, but that there are some graduate programs that are out there that are lockstep, where you're applying for a PhD, but along the way, you're getting a master's degree. Talk to me about how that worked for you and the difference between what you were doing in your master's and your doctorate, just to add some clarity for what that experience was like for you?

Dr. David Luke [00:09:57]: Yeah. It's an interesting question because the program that I was in changed in that regard while I was there. So I applied thinking that I was a PhD student. I remember at an orientation saying I was a PhD student and a faculty member correcting me and telling me that I was a master's student. So at that time, you would do 2 years of coursework and your master's thesis was sort of the culmination at the 2 year mark. And at that point, you would do a sort of application to get into the PhD program. What changed probably 5 years into my time there and I was I was on there for a little over 7 year 7 and a half years. The program changed so that people would apply for the PhD program, and if they left early after, like, 2 or 3 years, there there would be a master's paper, something they would write sort of in the middle of their towards the 2 thirds through their coursework.

Dr. David Luke [00:10:55]: And if they completed that, they would get sort of a terminal masters as a parting gift if they decided not to complete the PhD for whatever reason. And and grad school is a marathon. There are a number of reasons that people don't don't finish a PhD when they initially intend to, but I essentially I I did my 2 years, my master's, thesis, defended it. The director of graduate studies at that time was my MA adviser, and she wrote a letter to herself to recommend me for the PhD program so that they would have that record on file because the adviser would recommend to the DGS. And so in my case, it was someone writing a letter to themselves. The coursework was basically 3 for the program as a whole, it was basically 3 years of of structured coursework, then you do your qualifying exams, your proposal, and then your, dissertation. And those 3 years, you're taking classes with masters and PhD students. So the 2 years of masters coursework and then the thesis, a masters is supposed to represent, content matter, mastery.

Dr. David Luke [00:12:00]: Right? You you are as a master's someone with a master's in sociology, you know and understand the field at a very high level. The PhD is supposed to be adding knowledge to the field. So my master's thesis isn't necessarily something that adds knowledge to the field, but my PhD, the dissertation should be something that creates or adds new knowledge within the field of sociology. So that's kind of the bigger difference. And then, you know, people once they finish their coursework, people do their dissertation from all over the place. So you're kind of with this cohort moving through, and then everybody's finding their ways differently. So for me, I was in my PhD program at the dissertation stage, and a position opened up in the Martin Luther King Center at the University of Kentucky. And I knew that if I wanted to get my foot in that type of work, I had to have some experience, and this was my chance.

Dr. David Luke [00:12:53]: And so I was able to get a job. So my last couple years in grad school, I was also working full time and working on my dissertation. And I had a very supportive supervisor who was trusting giving me autonomy and trust that I could carve out time to write during my work day as long as I was doing what I needed to for the job to. So that was really helpful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:13]: Now earlier, you talked about that you left Grand Valley. You worked for about 2 years in accounting and then made that transition into graduate school. So there's a little bit of time between your undergrad and grad work. And we've talked about this on the show as well, that there is a big difference between the way that you're educated typically in undergrad and in in the expectation in graduate school. And there's so so there is a transition that you have to go through. Can you think back to your time transitioning into graduate school because you were able to find success? You got through both the master's, the doctor degree. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success? And what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the entirety of your graduate school experience?

Dr. David Luke [00:14:03]: Yeah. It's a good question. So I've been working and going to school since I was 14. So I get to graduate school and they're telling me I had a RA ship that was 20 hours a week, but I had a fellowship that would cover 10. So I would work 10 hours a week, and then they told me that I would take 3 classes. So I said, can I take 5? And they said, no. 3 is full time in graduate school. And I was like, okay.

Dr. David Luke [00:14:27]: I could take 4. And then can I work a little bit more? And they're like, no. You don't know what the workload is here. I come in thinking a credit is a credit. Right? I'm I'm not gonna take 9 credit hours and work 10 hours a week. I'm not gonna have anything to do. That was incorrect. Right? You're given a 120 pages to read for each class in a 5 to 7 page paper a week.

Dr. David Luke [00:14:49]: That consumes time. And I know for undergrads, they say it's 2 to 3 hours outside the classroom of work per hour in the classroom, and many students find that it takes them less time than that. I don't know what the amount is for graduate school, but it's much more. And the classes are structured so much differently. You know, I'm in a class with 8 people. We've read something that gave us a headache, and now we're all supposed to try to talk about it and figure it out. And so for me, coming from accounting where it's very much here's the rule, here's the I remember I took a sociological classical sociological theory class my 1st semester, and that was a major struggle. The professor kept saying, well, let's take it to the next level of abstraction.

Dr. David Luke [00:15:30]: And I'm like, why would we do that? Let's apply it to something so that I know what we're actually talking about. Right? So my 1st semester, I got 2 b's and an a, and that I didn't really realize was not very good. Right? You need to get a b to pass in the program. And so 2 b's was, hey. You just made it past those two classes. Now after that, I didn't get any more b's. And I don't really think the grades matter that much, but I think it requires a lot of, you know, self discipline, time management, especially when you get past coursework. I mean, the coursework, the workload is different.

Dr. David Luke [00:16:11]: The style of course seminars are different, more discussion. But you've been doing classroom stuff at that point in your life. You've done 20 plus years of of class stuff. So you we kind of understand most graduate students kind of understand how to do that part. It's afterwards I mean, for me and the structure of the program changed slightly, but understanding what qualifying exams were, that wasn't made clear to me up front. So I had to read a bunch of books to become an expert. And, really, that's where when I was working on my qualifying exams, that's where I felt that I gained enough expertise to consider myself a scholar of race and racism because those the coursework didn't cover it. It was when I worked with my advisor.

Dr. David Luke [00:16:53]: I had an independent study where we read books for my qualifying exams, and I did little summaries of each book, prepared myself. Qualifying exams came in. That sort of became a large chunk of the literature review for my dissertation project, and that was where I saw things building. But that's the part too where it is so much a marathon. I would remember thinking about the scope of what I was trying to do and being completely overwhelmed by it. It, like, paralyzed by it. I go into a meeting with my adviser and to his credit, as he broke down, you gotta work on this, this, this, they became manageable chunks. And I would leave the meeting knowing, okay, I can do this.

Dr. David Luke [00:17:32]: I'll take these steps and go forward and progress in that way. And I think that's something that I've carried forward a lot also. You know, I think the scope of work of diversity, equity, inclusion on campuses like the University of Michigan, Flint and many others can be very daunting. We have a lot of work to do, and there are some manageable chunks and pieces and things that we can do that I can point to and say, we've been able to do these things, and they've made the university better, and we'll keep at it. We still have a lot to do, but we're making a difference. Right? So I think a lot of that translates. The other thing I'll say too is life happens during graduate school. I and my wife planned and intended to have children.

Dr. David Luke [00:18:13]: Our first born was born. I had a full time job. She did too. We had a home. We had a bedroom prepared, a crib, all that stuff. I didn't know what it was like to have a newborn in the house. I'm the youngest in my family, and that put me back 1 year. And so I've said that to students.

Dr. David Luke [00:18:31]: I've had students that have had children in undergrad and said, oh, I'll be back in 6 weeks. And I said, you need to look into medical withdrawal because that is a lot. And I did feel we were very well prepared to do that. And so I had several colleagues that also had children, got married, other major life events happened during graduate school. And so it is some of it is things you can control. There's some things that you can't control. You do the best you can to control what you can, and but it is definitely a marathon. And that that's where I think my biggest thing that helped me is I knew why I wanted this.

Dr. David Luke [00:19:04]: So I wanted a PhD so that I could be a credible expert to teach and to facilitate some of those experiences I had in undergraduate or to be able to be in a leadership position on a on a, university campus where I could influence positive change. In both of those instances, that's what a PhD would do for me. So that that helped me motivate. I had friends and colleagues that didn't have a good reason why they were there, and most of the time for those folks, they wouldn't finish. So I don't indiscriminately recommend people to go to graduate school. I I recommend people to think very clearly about what they need and why they need it and help that motivate them to complete what they're trying to start in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:46]: So you have a degree now in a master's degree in sociology, a doctorate degree in sociology. You are a chief diversity officer. You got to that position that you were aiming for when you knew the person from Grand Valley that was a mentor for you. Talk to me about how that graduate education informs the work that you do on a daily basis.

Dr. David Luke [00:20:11]: I mean, in a lot of ways, formal and informal, I think it informs it. You know, I'm a sociologist, so I have to talk about socialization. Right? So being a graduate student, working directly with faculty, and I was selected by my peers to be president of our graduate student organization. As such, I was attending department faculty meetings and representing the student voice at those meetings. That was very valuable to me as now I'm sometimes in similar meetings, and I have a sense for sort of how those how those function, how those run. You know, the specific content that I studied in graduate school is directly related to the work that I'm doing now. Obviously, I have a substantive focus on race and racism, and diversity, equity, and inclusion is much broader than that, but much of that translates to other systems of oppression and understanding different social identities. And I think my disciplinary background in sociology is an advantage to institutional diversity, equity, and inclusion work because what we are trying to do is address the structural underpinnings of inequity within organizations, and that's what sociology does.

Dr. David Luke [00:21:17]: So sociologists, the big learning outcome in intro to sociology classes is that students will understand the sociological imagination, which is the connection between one's private troubles and public issues. So if we have a student that encounters an issue relating to inequitable treatment or in some way, We don't view that just as an isolated instance. Certainly, you first attend to that student's need, but then you look at how do we prevent that same issue from happening from to another student in the future? What is it about our policies, practices, norms, that are producing this outcome for this student, and how do we make sure that doesn't happen for others? And so that's how I'm constantly thinking. I want to get less and less busy. I would hope that as we address the things that we're doing as an institution that are producing inequitable results, that then we have less and less to do. And it's a different conceptualization than a lot of times when people think about racism, sexism, homophobia, they think about an individual bigot and their actions. And there certainly are consequences if we have people that hold very prejudiced views and position the power, and and they can they can cause harm. But the bigger problem is when those harm causing behaviors, patterns are encouraged institutionally in some way or supported institutionally in some way.

Dr. David Luke [00:22:35]: So to the extent that we can normalize inclusive equitable behaviors and practices, people who behave in ways that run contrary to those norms will face informal sanction. We don't do that here. It doesn't have to be a formal sanction necessary. There's there's tense amount of pressure from informal sanctions based on social norms within an organization. So we're saying that we care about diversity, equity, and inclusion, and that needs to be felt by everyone.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:00]: You know, one of the questions that, I guess, that I would ask is that as individuals are looking at graduate school, they will see different organizations. They'll see different individuals like yourself that are working with people on the campus to create a culture of inclusion and creating an atmosphere that would be welcoming for all. What should students be looking for to identify the culture of a campus when it comes to diversity, equity, and inclusion as they're looking at graduate schools?

Dr. David Luke [00:23:34]: If you look at the structure of the institution's DEI offices, the resources going towards those efforts, and and it's relative to, right, to the size and the budget of the institution, the outcomes that they're able to talk about from those efforts, what university leadership is saying. I mean, one of the big challenges and especially for folks that are considering working in diversity, equity, inclusion roles, there's a plethora of chief diversity officer jobs. Although there's fewer now given some of the political opposition to it, but many of these roles are constructed to be figureheads that do not have any authority to make change within the organization. So they check a box, they might offer a nice salary, and their hope is that you will just kind of do some trainings and workshops that are maybe not that consequential that we know from research are not the most impactful practices. But we can say we did them, and we can say we have this person, and we can say that we're we're doing something good versus places that are trying to make measurable change in key areas where it's not just the diversity officer and the DEI roles that are held accountable. But throughout the organization, folks are being held accountable and expected to contribute to DEI efforts. These are the things that I would look for. And, also, I mean, graduate students, if you get a chance when you're considering a program to talk to some of the graduate students there, talk to folks there about what they're experiencing.

Dr. David Luke [00:25:00]: Are they feeling a result from the professor efforts? But yeah. I mean, those are those are a few ways I think that that could help get a sense for.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:08]: Now you've given a lot of pieces of advice, things that you've learned along the way. As you're thinking about students that are coming up now and that are thinking about going to graduate school, what are some tips that you might offer them that would help them find success sooner?

Dr. David Luke [00:25:24]: First thing is why. Why are you doing it? Have a have a good reason. So next, I would say, I'll think of things that I could have done better. It would have been advantageous for me to do more research on research within the fields to understand faculty that I might like to work with. Right? This is a thing that a lot of PhD students do, is you would apply to a program and in your application materials, say, I would like to work with this person on this type of research that they're doing. Right? I didn't do that. And I thought about that after my finished my masters. I could have applied somewhere else, perhaps and would have been much stronger application.

Dr. David Luke [00:26:03]: But, I I had a pretty good experience at UK and a and a pretty good situation there, so I decided to stay. And then I think I was fortunate. I have some colleagues from grad school that I'm still very close with. Some programs are very cutthroat and competitive, and others are much more collegial. And that's really important because you're going through something that is usually pretty long, pretty challenging. And when you have other folks that are going through that experience with you that you can count on each other and encourage each other, that makes a world of difference. So those are some of the things that I would recommend. And, you know, when you're looking at faculty advisors and stuff, you know, look people up.

Dr. David Luke [00:26:43]: Google them. See what folks are saying. Talk to other graduate students. But your advisor can have a very strong impact on your success within that program and how you do in the field. So it's it's that's a very important if you get the wrong adviser switching, there's a lot of politics involved in those decisions too. So, yeah, be very judicious and and thorough with deciding where you wanna go and who you wanna work with.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:10]: Well, David, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey today, for being a voice that is helping others to make that transition, to identify the next steps for themselves. I truly appreciate you sharing your journey with us today, and I wish you all the best.

Dr. David Luke [00:27:29]: Thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:30]: The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit umflint.edu forward /graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at [email protected].

Entering graduate school is a significant step in one's academic and professional journey. It requires careful consideration, motivation, and a clear vision of how it will contribute to personal and career growth. In this week's Victors in Grad School Podcast, Marsha Hare, an international logistics analyst with XPO Logistics, shares her inspiring journey from undertaking undergraduate studies to successfully completing a Master of Science Administration in Information Resource Management at Central Michigan University. Her experiences provide valuable insights for individuals considering or currently pursuing graduate education.

Transitioning from Undergraduate Work to Graduate School

Marsha reflects on her decision to pursue graduate studies after gaining work experience following her undergraduate degree. Rather than following a predetermined path, she made the decision for herself, driven by a desire to broaden her skills and knowledge. This highlights the importance of personal motivation and autonomy when making the transition to graduate school. Her readiness for this new phase of education was influenced by reaching a point in her life where she had more time available for studying, demonstrating that identifying the right timing for graduate studies is a personal consideration that can impact one's success in the program.

Choosing the Right Program and Institution

Marsha's decision-making process in selecting the Information Resource Management program at Central Michigan University sheds light on important factors to consider when choosing a graduate program. Her choice was influenced by both the relevance of the program to her professional experience and the flexibility it offered. Additionally, the absence of an entrance exam requirement at the institution allowed her to focus on meeting other necessary prerequisites, giving her the opportunity to flourish without the pressure of standardized testing. This emphasizes the significance of aligning the program with one's career goals and considering the educational environment that best suits individual learning styles.

Adapting to Graduate Study: Strategies for Success

Marsha's decision to pursue her studies online required discipline, meticulous planning, and effective time management. Her approach to organizing her study schedule by looking ahead at the curriculum, establishing deadlines, and understanding her personal learning process exemplifies the adaptability and self-awareness needed to excel in a graduate program. Her commitment to studying during work breaks and utilizing available resources, such as the workplace gym, showcases the creativity and determination required to balance work and academics. Marsha's experience emphasizes the importance of self-discipline, organization, and utilizing available resources to succeed in the unique challenges of a graduate program.

Impact of Graduate Education on Professional Growth

Marsha's graduate education directly impacted her professional role by enhancing her research skills and data analysis capabilities. Her ability to conduct thorough research and analyze data efficiently elevated her performance in the logistics industry. While not directly leading to a promotion, the knowledge and skills gained from her program equipped her to handle complex industry challenges with confidence. Marsha's experience underscores the potential for a graduate degree to elevate one's expertise and proficiency within their professional domain.

Tips for Success: Navigating Graduate School

Marsha's advice for future graduate students emphasizes the significance of collaborative work and adaptation to diverse perspectives. Encouraging an open-minded approach and respectful interaction within group settings highlights the value of networking and the potential for personal growth through varied viewpoints. Her emphasis on appreciating different perspectives and learning from others resonates with the collaborative nature of graduate education and its long-term impact on professional development.

Navigating Graduate School with Purpose

Marsha Hare's journey through graduate school offers valuable lessons for those considering or currently pursuing advanced education. Her story demonstrates the importance of personal drive, strategic decision-making, adaptability, and the ability to leverage both personal and professional experiences to excel in a graduate program. By reflecting on Marsha's insights, individuals can gain a deeper understanding of the considerations and strategies that contribute to a successful graduate school experience, ultimately paving the way for meaningful personal and professional growth.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. I love being able to sit down and talk with you every week and to be able to walk with you on this journey that you're on. I say journey because it is a journey, and every person goes through a journey as they're thinking about graduate school, as they're going through graduate school, as they're preparing to leave graduate school. And you and I are on this journey together because I know that every person's journey is a little bit unique, and it's important for you to be able to have some tools in your toolbox to help you along this path that can open your eyes to some of the things that you might be able to do, even right now, that can help you to be successful in graduate school. And that's why this podcast exists. It exists to help you to be able to learn from other people, other people that have conned before you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:12]: And that's why every week I love being able to have different guests, guests that have gone to graduate school in the past, have learned, they have grown, have been successful in that journey, and I can share that journey with you as well. Today, we got another great guest with us today. Marsha Hair is with us today. And Marsha is a international logistics analyst with XPO Logistics, and she has been there for quite a few years. And she did her graduate work at Central Michigan University, but before that was at the University of Michigan Flint. And we're gonna talk about the journey that she went on, going from her undergraduate work to working to going to get her graduate degree and learn from that journey along the way. Marsha, thanks so much for being here today.

Marsha Hare [00:02:01]: Thank you for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:02]: It is my pleasure. Love being able to have you here. I wanna turn the clock back in time because I know you did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan, Flint. You did your bachelor's of business administration at U of M Flint, and you did that in human resources and organizational behavior management. And then you went off and you worked for a while. And sometime in that period of time between when you graduated and in your work life, you made a decision. You made a decision to go back to school. What was going through your head as you were out in the workforce and you were deciding to go and go back to school after being in the workforce for some time?

Marsha Hare [00:02:43]: What was going through my head when I did my undergraduate studies? I kind of did that because that was, like, the next step. That's what I was told in school. This is the next step. The family encouraged me to go to college. So when I decided to go back to graduate school, I was doing it for me, solely for me, something that I wanted to do. I was at a point in my life where I was ready. My oldest was, believe he was grown at the time and my youngest was old enough to kind of have some independence. So I was able to have the time I needed to study.

Marsha Hare [00:03:10]: And then I wanted to broaden my ideals and my skills for the job that I was in, for the work environment that I was in.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:18]: So you've got a Master of Science Administration in Information Resource Management. Talk to me about the decision, not only to study that, but the decision to ultimately attend Central Michigan University. What what was it about that specific field that you decided that you wanted to focus in on that and why Central Michigan?

Marsha Hare [00:03:39]: So I actually was going to the SAP program that Central Michigan offered. But, because that was the a program that we were currently working in at my job, but and it was mostly, like, for Mexico suppliers that I was using that particular application for. But it was a little more costly, so I decided to just go to the information resource management program because it kind of had some similarities and a little bit different, but I was still dealing with a lot of information, a lot of data in my day to day work. So that was one of the reasons I chose that program. The other reason I chose, Central Michigan for that particular program, I'm not good at testing. I'm sure a lot of students probably can can identify with that. Not that I'm terribly bad, but I just it's uncomfortable sometimes for me, And I did not have to take an entrance exam to get into that program, but I did have to take a couple of prerequisites. And there were some other requirements that I had to do, but I met all of those.

Marsha Hare [00:04:39]: And I was so proud of myself that I didn't have to have a exam tell me this is how I felt. Not saying everybody feels that way, but I didn't have to have an exam tell me if I was smart enough to get in that program or not. But I was able to get in that program, and I actually got the best GPA that I ever had. Of course, being more mature at the time helped a lot and having the work experience helped a lot, but still I was just at that time where I was able to focus and I was ready for it. So that is why I went to CMU, and that is why I selected that particular program.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:12]: Now there was a number of years between when you did your undergraduate work and you went into your graduate work. And going through undergraduate studies, you're taught in a specific way. When you go to graduate school, it's a little bit different. And you have to transition, and you have to understand and learn what you have to do to find success. So can you think back to that transition that you went through and what you found that you had to do to and what you found that you had to do to find success in graduate school. What did you have to do specifically to be able to set yourself up for success as you entered into the program? And what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout the entirety of the program?

Marsha Hare [00:06:00]: So I was a little unique in how I approached grad school. I did not take your traditional sit in class and do the lecture for them. I actually did my whole program online. So it took some discipline, and it took some planning. So what I did, I looked at the curriculum of every class that I have for every semester. I looked at the requirements. I looked at the assignments, when they were gonna be due. What was going to be the components of making that assignment complete? And I've got a planner, a desk planner, and I wrote out all the due dates on my planner.

Marsha Hare [00:06:37]: And then I went back, and and it took probably about a couple semesters for me to kinda figure out how long it takes me to, like, read the assignment before I actually get to doing, do the homework and turn it in. So I had to kinda learn what my learning process was. So once I figured that out, then I would count, like, backwards. From the date it was due, I would go back maybe 5 days and say, okay. I need to start here and plug in 2 hours of my day to study for this specific class. And then because I was working full time, I would also it depends. Sometimes if I had a minute, I take my breaks and study. We actually had a workout room on our worksite.

Marsha Hare [00:07:15]: So I would take my books and put them up on the treadmill and walk and read because sometimes reading makes me drowsy. So I would figure it out. Do what I had to do. And then on my lunch breaks, I would study. When I came home, I get the kids all straight, and then I would take whatever time I needed in the evenings to study or be online. And then the weekends. But it was fast. It was a little more condensed than your traditional in person forum, but I had to be very focused and very organized in order to have a successful online master's program experience.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:51]: And you were successful. You were able to go on from there and continue on. You've got your degree continued in your career. Talk to me about after getting that master's degree and even today, how do you feel that the graduate degree prepared you for the work that you do on a daily basis?

Marsha Hare [00:08:09]: Some people get promotions. This is probably funny, but I didn't really get a promotion. I did get more work. I would just go okay. But what it did, it was a lot of research that was required in that program. So it made me do a lot more research when I was looking for or working through certain problems or trying to understand a particular segment of the industry that I was in. So that part was really good for me. It was very helpful.

Marsha Hare [00:08:36]: The data that I encountered did help me with analyzing the data so that I could give feedback on what trends are happening in my particular segment or in the logistics world. So that was helpful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:49]: Thinking back to your graduate education, the graduate degree that you did receive and what you learned in that process. And thinking about students that are coming up now and are looking at graduate school or maybe going through graduate school, what are some tips that you might offer to them that would help them to find success sooner?

Marsha Hare [00:09:12]: In my graduate studies, I had to I was in a lot of groups, lot of group settings. So if you're not a person that works with others or likes to work with others, you're gonna have to change that depending on your program. But for my particular program, I like working with others, but I'm kinda used to doing my own thing. So I did have to make sure that you understand your group, you know, their personalities. You're open to the differences of opinion, the differences of styles, and appreciate that everyone brings something different or a different piece of the problem to the table. And that really helped me grow. That helped me grow in my in my position today and just over my career because my career requires me to be in different groups, and it requires me to interact with different departments. And so I have to have an appreciation for different perspectives.

Marsha Hare [00:10:04]: And I learned I learned a lot from other people and how they look at and how they approach problems. So that was very, very, very helpful, and I think that's a good tip for people that's going to have to interact with the public or interact with other groups. They need to have an open mind and definitely share their own experience as well, but just be respectful of each other.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:25]: Great tips and definitely things to think about. You're going to definitely have opportunities in grad school to work with others, and that helps you build your network as well. So the more that you are able to push yourself out there, put yourself out there, and share, as you said, your experiences, the better off you're gonna be. So, Marsha, thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey today, for, you know, expressing and thinking back to the journey that you went through and sharing some of the tips that you learned along the way. And I truly wish you all the best.

Marsha Hare [00:10:57]: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:59]: The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of master's and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit umflint doteduforward/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at [email protected].

The Importance of Continuous Learning

In this week's Victors in Grad School we welcome Jeff Sharkey, Vice President for Tru Treasury, as he shares his insights into the journey of success through graduate school. A key takeaway from his experience is the importance of continuous learning. His decision to pursue a graduate degree was driven by the desire to avoid making decisions based on outdated information. This highlights the value of ongoing education and the impact it can have on personal and professional development. Sharkey's story serves as a testament to the power of continuous learning in staying relevant and informed in an ever-evolving landscape.

Making Informed Choices

Sharkey's decision to pursue a Master of Business Administration (MBA) was influenced by meaningful advice from mentors and a deep understanding of the opportunities inherent in further education. His willingness to seek guidance from experienced professionals reflects the significance of making informed choices when it comes to graduate education. Rather than following a generic path, Sharkey actively sought advice that aligned with his career aspirations, emphasizing the value of strategic decision-making in the pursuit of higher education.

Leveraging Professional Relationships

The importance of leveraging professional relationships becomes evident in Sharkey's narrative. His positive interactions with mentors and colleagues not only provided valuable advice but also facilitated his transition into the graduate program. Building and nurturing strong professional relationships can open doors to opportunities and valuable insights, demonstrating the significance of networking in the context of graduate education and career advancement.

Adapting to the Graduate School Environment

Adapting to the graduate school environment is a crucial aspect of success, and Sharkey's experience sheds light on the need for flexibility and resilience. Operating within a distributed workforce while pursuing his MBA, Sharkey navigated the challenges of distance learning and remote work, demonstrating the importance of adaptability in managing the demands of academic and professional commitments.

Application of Learning in Professional Settings

Sharkey's MBA journey not only equipped him with valuable theoretical knowledge but also provided practical skills that he could apply directly in his professional role. The emphasis on team collaboration, tools for remote work, and the ability to create value amidst challenging circumstances showcases the relevance of graduate education in preparing individuals for real-world scenarios.

Nurturing a Lifelong Learning Mindset

As he reflects on his own experience, Sharkey shares valuable tips for aspiring graduate students. His emphasis on continuous education, open-mindedness, and proactive networking encourages individuals to adopt a lifelong learning mindset. By embracing a commitment to ongoing growth and professional development, individuals can position themselves for success and leverage the full potential of their graduate education.

Sharkey's journey serves as a testament to the multifaceted benefits of pursuing a graduate degree, emphasizing the integration of academic learning, practical application, and professional networking. His insights underscore the transformative impact of strategic decision-making, adaptability, and continuous learning, offering valuable guidance for those navigating their own paths through graduate school.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to victors in grad school. I'm your host, doctor Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. As always every week, I love being able to sit down with you, talk to you, to help you on this journey that you're on in going to graduate school. Now I say going to graduate school, but you might already be in graduate school. Or you could be thinking about it, and it might be a few years off. Or you could be toward the end of that graduate school experience. No matter where you're at, this podcast was set up to help you in this journey and to help you to find success through that graduate school journey.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:52]: That's why every week, I love being able to bring you different guests, different people that have gone to graduate school before you, that have different experiences that they can share with you and help you in this journey that you're on. This week, we've got another great guest with us. Jeff Sharkey is with us today, and Jeff is the vice president for Treasury Solutions and Innovation. We're gonna be talking about the steps that he took to get to where he is today. But I am really excited for him to share his experiences with you and help you to learn about what it took for him to find success. Jeff, thanks so much for being here today.

Jeff Sharkey [00:01:30]: My pleasure. I really appreciate the opportunity as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:33]: I think one of the things that I would love to do is turn the clock back. I'd love to go back in time just a little bit. I wanna go back to those undergraduate days because I know you did your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan Flint where you got your bachelor's of business administration. And at some point in that experience, you made a choice. You made a choice that you wanted to make that next step. And it could have been during your undergraduate experience, but it also could have been while you were working in that first job as a treasury management officer at Team 1 Credit 1. So talk to me about what made you ultimately decide that you wanted to go into grad school and go into that graduate degree.

Jeff Sharkey [00:02:17]: So my experience has been very unique, obviously, working throughout the entire both undergrad and graduate process. Essentially, what had happened was as I was going through, and then we'll talk again, winding back to undergrad, I met a lot of people, made a lot of connections. And it's almost a given that the people that are in undergrad have already taken the steps to further themselves as well. They could have stopped with an associates, but they're continuing to learn, in some cases lifelong learners. Well then, you also get the breed that I was in, which are also working as well. So you have a group of kind of almost overachievers where, yes, they have a career in many cases, so they're taking those nights, weekends, and online classes. Well, that really builds a bond and camaraderie there. And clearly, once you get to that 4 year mark, it's like, well, you know what? We always wanna make sure that we're improving ourselves.

Jeff Sharkey [00:03:08]: I actually read an interesting thing that being a parallel to whenever you graduate, if you don't continue your education, that is the date of which you will be making the rest of the decisions of your entire life. So if I were to, as an example, graduate undergrad 2018, I would be already making decisions for the rest of my life off of 6 year old information. So that continuous improvement was was really a big thing. And then of course, you have a lot of a lot of people that are doing it. You form bonds that you can play off of as well. Another big thing that happened, honestly, was I owe most of it to the recruitment process. Craig Gomolka, specifically, kind of a rock star. He'd been at the University of Michigan for at least a decade already.

Jeff Sharkey [00:03:48]: And he just did so many things proactively with the team, which, you know, obviously shows credibility institution itself to show the value. And, you know, helping me out with saying, hey, you know what? You're already here. It makes sense for you to continue on with this specific track. He would pull transcripts and say, hey. Your grades are it's to the point where they qualify for some of the MBA classes already. You know, just really making the process smooth. I didn't even ask him to do most of those things. Again, doing it proactively.

Jeff Sharkey [00:04:15]: So it was just really great experience there to the point where he basically said, well, here's your first schedule. And I needed to make sure that I accepted it, and then just roll with it. So I owe a lot to him, but that's kind of the process from, you know, undergrad, which is a funny thing. I graduated with a 2011 year catalog. And that's proof of, you know, when I started this endeavor into when I finished it, because I was essentially part time doing the career and further education as well. So that's what I'd say.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:41]: Now you kind of answered this next question that I would typically ask, but maybe there's more to it, which is you did your undergrad at the University of Michigan Flint. You did your master's at the University of Michigan Flint. And you kinda talked about that in the recruitment process that Craig had talked to you, that worked with you to show you those parallels. And typically, I would say, well, what was it that made you specifically choose to stay at the University of Michigan Flint? Because it sounds like your grades were strong, and you could have gone potentially somewhere else if you had wanted to. Was it just the fact that you had made those connections, or was there more to the decision making that made you say that staying at U of M Flint was the best choice for you?

Jeff Sharkey [00:05:26]: That's a fair question. Since I had been employed in essentially what is and had been my career path already, I started to get a lot of counsel from other mentors as well. A lot of so I'm in finance, so a lot of them in banking, very deep in banking. And ironically, one of the things that that happened was I'd asked one of those mentors that I really trust. Okay. So I'm I'm at that, you know, 4 year mark. What would you suggest to do next? Should I do the professional certification in my field? Or should I do the certification in my field? Or should I do the MBA? Now at that point, interestingly enough, hands down, he said professional certification in your field because that made the most sense. So I did.

Jeff Sharkey [00:05:59]: I went through, took about a year and a half, knocked that out. And then I came back and I held that certification, waved it in front of his face, and said, hey, hey, what, you know, what's next? He's like, absolutely go for the MBA. And here's another reason why as he had talking about somebody who really reached a high level of exceptionalism and professionalism in his career and been able to take basically maximize what he was doing. And he got to the point where he wanted to pass that on. And the way that, you know, some of us, obviously, look to pass that on is actually through being an educator himself. One thing that he ran into significant barrier. One thing that he had not achieved through all of these things that he did achieve was an MBA. And that really sounded to him like that was the pathway for him to become an, you know, the educators, you know, again, because this is later on in his life.

Jeff Sharkey [00:06:46]: He, you know, been very successful and now he wanted to give back. And that was a that was a block form. So he's like, MBA. Go for the MBA. So I have these people, my network that's already in the MBA program. I got Craig helping me out here. It really was a very convenient thing just to continue on where I was. I I knew where to park.

Jeff Sharkey [00:07:04]: I knew the business school. I knew the I knew what classrooms. Some of the professors were even the same. It was really an efficiency play for me as well. You can look at my profiler. I worked at the building that was literally attached. So, you know, I worked at the bank right next door. So it just made so much sense in order to continue there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:31]: So that's success in that graduate school journey. I always know that there is a transition, though, because the way that typically you're being taught as a undergraduate student is not the same as the way that you're being taught as a graduate student. So what did you have to do to set yourself up for success? And what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout your graduate school journey?

Jeff Sharkey [00:07:55]: What I would say is it was basically continuing on in the habits that I had developed. I will say that I had the benefit since I've been working at it for so long. I knew what I was in for. I knew what to expect. For the most part, I knew the amount of time and energy I'd have to put into things. And then the distance learning, I, you know, call it that or I call it COVID, we didn't really have many other options when we got the ability to meet in person, you know, face to face removed from us. So then that took another amount of discipline. Well, at the same point that that was happening in my education, that was also happening in my career.

Jeff Sharkey [00:08:30]: So it really just blended where flexibility of the class offerings, you know, whether it be the the asynchronous, you know, online, after hours, things of that nature. It really made it so that all I had to do is continue what I was doing, in the behaviors that I had already created. So it was great to have that consistency as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:50]: Now I know you got your MBA at about the same time that you also transitioned into a role at True Treasury, and there was a little bit of synchronicity in that as well. And I guess one of the things that I would question with you is as you look back now and you completed your MBA, and you look back at what you learned throughout that MBA degree, how do you feel that the graduate degree prepared you for the work that you do on a daily basis?

Jeff Sharkey [00:09:21]: It's a lot in the team aspects. I will say that most saying that through your teeth because during the process, you know, that having the team members assigned to you, you know, that can be one of the most difficult parts, is learning how to deal with other, call it coworkers, call it other team members. And I will say that I had great teams. I heard stories about other ones that were not. Our professors were even very accommodating in making ways to address team issues. So, you know, if if and when they arose. Again, I was very fortunate. But I would say that that's probably the the clearest preparation and aid, I should say, that took place.

Jeff Sharkey [00:09:59]: Because what had happened was the company that I worked for was formed in 2020 right as the world started to close down. And so we were tasked to essentially create all of this value in and do it, you know, basically over the internet, which is something that has not been the traditional path for finance. And so also having that experience from the MBA of having to do absolutely everything, whether it be collaborations, using collaboration tools. You know, our our workforce is what we we call ourselves, like, basically, the 100% distributed workforce. You know, as far as no corporate leased office space somewhere. Everything is, you know, done remotely. The MBA prepared me for that as well. You know, it not even you know, almost not by design, but it was a very valuable thing for me to have that experience.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:49]: Now, again, you've been out now for a few years. And you have the will say time on your side to be able to look back and to be able to consider that graduate education that you've gone through and what it took for you to be able to get to that end state that you had that diploma in hand. As you look back at this and you think about other students that are coming behind you, whether it be for an MBA or for a degree in a completely different area, what are some tips that you might offer to other students that are considering graduate education that would help them to find success sooner?

Jeff Sharkey [00:11:29]: Yeah. I would say continuous education. Always be hungry. Always want more than what is available. So, the professors are going to give you some a specific set of content, but that doesn't have to be the end of it. We had a lot of different, circumstances where we would work on things together with, you know, classmates that weren't necessarily related to projects, but we had formed those groups. One of them, we were very close to launching a business venture that they had essentially assigned us to do. I mean, how how easy was that as far as, you know, well, next step is essentially to go get it funded.

Jeff Sharkey [00:12:05]: So those are the type of things where I'd say just really be open and be ready to take those type of opportunities. I'm working with another person who essentially ran that same type of situation, and now they're in that business. So just really be flexible, soak it all in, but don't let that be a restriction either. Don't let the syllabus be the restriction. Ended a couple of the networking events that they have. The U of M Flint's very good about having additional networking events. And I remember seeing there's kind of a line waiting to talk to this one specific professor. And so I was just kind of listening in on it.

Jeff Sharkey [00:12:38]: And what he was telling is he's he's like, you need to go to this place. You need to contact this person, and here is their phone number, and they are in charge of helping get grants for that type of information. You know, it was just it was really interesting to have the different resources be presented to you. So that's the other thing I would say is is work the network. Your network will work if you work the network. I know, you know, lead surgeons in Wisconsin, the head nurses in Grand Rapids. It just really interesting, the network that I got connected with. So fire up your LinkedIn profile, make sure that you don't lose contact with these people.

Jeff Sharkey [00:13:09]: There's a person who runs the metal, essentially reclamation company down in South Carolina. Just really great and interesting things to know about and to have, and we keep in contact. So that's another very valuable thing. So I would say, be open, take it all in, work that network.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:24]: I love that you said that because especially if you do have grow from those other people, and then their network becomes your network. So as you network, as you build that professional network within and among the classmates that you have, they can open doors for you that you never would have had being local to a specific area. So listen to what Jeff just said because one of the things that he was talking about was for him, having an online option was the right fit. Not the right fit for everyone, but also look at the student base. And if you're going to be in an in person cohort, is everyone from the same area? Or are they coming from many different areas too? Because you do want a network. You want to build a network. You wanna look at the alumni network. You wanna do what you can to expand your own network so that you then have even more opportunities for yourself as you move forward in your career.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:39]: So, Jeff, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey today, for being willing to talk about this and share this journey that you've been on, and I wish you all the best.

Jeff Sharkey [00:14:51]: My pleasure. Thanks for the opportunity.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:53]: The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit umflint.edu/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at [email protected].

Embarking on the journey of graduate school can be a daunting yet rewarding endeavor. In the podcast episode "Victors in Grad School," Robert Burack, co-founder of Brocade Studio, shares insights from his experience transitioning from undergraduate to graduate education, offering valuable tips and reflections for success in the world of higher education.

The Non-Linear Path of Graduate Education:

Burack's journey serves as a poignant example of how the path to graduate education isn't always linear. Contrary to the traditional belief that one's undergraduate major must dictate the future degree, Burack demonstrates that the diverse landscape of graduate programs allows individuals to explore multidisciplinary paths. His background in political science led him to master's degrees in public management and strategic design, showcasing the flexibility and adaptability inherent in modern graduate education.

Imposter Syndrome and the Decision to Pursue Graduate Education:

Burack's decision to pursue graduate education was influenced by imposter syndrome and the desire for additional credentials to boost confidence in his consulting engagements. This reflects the common sentiment among prospective graduate students who seek validation and expertise to further their careers. His experience serves as a reminder that the pursuit of advanced education should be driven by personal and professional growth rather than conforming to traditional timelines or expectations.

Discipline and Relationship Building in Graduate School:

Burack emphasizes the significance of discipline in managing time effectively during his graduate programs. This shift from the abundance of time in undergraduate studies to a more structured and disciplined approach mirrors the realities many students face in the transition to graduate education. Additionally, he underscores the importance of intentional relationship building, highlighting the value of connections within the academic community that extend beyond the classroom.

Transferable Skills and Soft Skill Development:

Reflecting on his graduate education, Burack underscores the development of transferable skills such as deep listening, writing, and relationship building. These skills have proven instrumental in his consulting work, emphasizing the practical relevance of graduate education. This insight serves as a reminder that graduate education goes beyond academic knowledge, fostering the development of essential soft skills that are indispensable in professional endeavors.

Tips for Prospective Graduate Students:

Burack's advice for prospective graduate students revolves around cultivating opportunities outside the classroom, prioritizing reflection and introspection, and embracing the mindset of lifelong learning. His emphasis on leveraging the resources and mentorship available during graduate education aligns with the personalized and holistic approach necessary for a successful graduate journey.

Robert Burack's journey through graduate school provides invaluable insights for individuals navigating the complex landscape of higher education. His experiences underscore the adaptability, transferable skills, and personal growth that come with pursuing diverse paths in graduate education. As aspiring and current graduate students embark on their own journeys, Burack's reflections serve as a guide, inspiring a holistic approach to success that transcends traditional academic boundaries.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victors in Grad School. I'm your host, Doctor. Christopher Lewis, Director of Graduate Programs at the University of Michigan, Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. Love being able to talk to you every week because I know that the journey that you're on is different than the journey that the person beside you is on. But it is a journey and you are either looking at grad school, considering grad school, you might be in grad school, or you might be looking at that light at the end of the tunnel and saying, I'm almost done. And that's okay too. But every person is going on some journey.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:45]: And as you go through that journey, there are things that you can do to be able to find success in that journey that you're on. And that's what this show is all about. Every week, I love being able to give you hints, tips, resources, things that you can do to be able to learn, to grow and to take as a part of your toolbox. As you go through that graduate school journey for yourself, No matter where you go, you have to find those, those resources and tips, those things that you can do to be able to be successful. And it does take some different tools from the tools that you had in undergrad to be able to do that. And that's why every week I bring you different guests, different people that have gone before you that are, that have gone to graduate school, gone through graduate school, have learned things along the way and are wanting to give back. They're wanting to share those things with you. And today we've got another great guest with us today.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:38]: Robert Barak is with us today. And Robert is the co founder of Brocade Studio out of Toronto, Ontario. And we'll be talking about the journey that he's been on over the years to go through from his undergraduate to graduate school and beyond. So I'm really excited to have him here today. Robert, thanks so much for joining us today.

Robert Burack [00:01:56]: Thanks. It's great to be with you and glad to be expanding the Flint alumni community here in Canada.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:02]: Well, love to be able to chat with our friends right across the lake. Sure. And also our PAS alums to kind of learn a little bit from them. I know that you did do your undergraduate work at the University of Michigan Flint. And after completing that degree, you had some opportunities and decided along the way to continue your education. Now that that original understanding of going right to grad school or going to grad school after you probably learned something along the way of when you wanted to go to grad school. Talk to me about what made you finally decide that you wanted to take that next step and go to graduate school.

Robert Burack [00:02:40]: Yeah. You're right. I didn't do it right away. There was a little bit of a a simmering and learning period out in the quote unquote real world. I cofounded Brocade, which is a boutique consulting firm in my late twenties, which in some way is at least a mildly ridiculous thing to do because there's so much you don't know and you don't know that you don't know when you're in that stage of life. But one of the co founders was in a later stage of her career And overall, as a team, we were offering more skills than wisdom. So we felt fine about starting up the consultancy. So my decision to go to graduate school when I did was really driven to a large degree by a feeling I think a lot of folks have at some stage in their life and for many people in their twenties, which is some form of imposter syndrome. Right? I felt like some additional credentials would give me really the confidence to sell and lead consulting engagements. And having the credential behind me was a little bit of wind in my sails as I was talking to folks who were running organizations and doing amazing work.

Robert Burack [00:03:44]: It's only later that I really understood that people care a little bit less about your resume than whether you really deeply understand their problems. And certainly graduate school is a place where you get to expand your ability to think. But I didn't want to lose momentum with the business and I really like working. So the graduate programs I chose, there were 2, 1 at Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh and one at Parsons School of Design at The New School in New York were both part time programs geared towards working professionals.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:14]: So I'm kind of interested in the decisions that you made because you got a bachelor's degree at the University of Michigan, Flint in political science, did very well there. And as you said, you went off, you founded your consultancy firm, got into work, got some experience under your belt, and then you decided to go to Carnegie Mellon to get a master of public management, an MPM degree. And then you also decided to get a master of strategic design and management from the Parsons School of Design. So talk to me about the decision making of choosing the degrees that were right for you and what made you choose those programs, but also those schools for those degrees?

Robert Burack [00:04:59]: Yeah. I've listened to a few episodes of the the podcast, and then there's some people describe a great, great thoughtfulness and in their decision making. And I'm here to represent the other side, which is sort of trying your best and make making a sort of a quick informed decision when there's a lot of possibilities on the table. So I talked a moment ago about imposter syndrome and wanting a credential to have some wind in my sails. Carnegie Mellon was a program that was proximate to where I was geared toward working professionals. So the hours worked in terms of me continuing to consult and balance work in graduate school. And I had done a fellowship called the Coro Fellowship, which is sort of multi sector experience geared towards folks in their twenties and thirties. A number of US senators have done it and entrepreneurs.

Robert Burack [00:05:58]: And Carnegie Mellon had a special relationship with the Corot Fellowship where they offered a pretty significant scholarship. So I would love to say I really scanned the market, looked at many schools, many programs, but that wasn't the case. It was something that sort of ticked a couple of boxes and met my needs and allowed me to focus as much as possible on starting and growing the business, which I really wanted to to do. And our firm does a number of things. We're kind of unique in terms of the blend of services we offer, but we have a design perspective, which in some ways means that we just make things that are not only functional and defective, but are beautiful. And in some ways, we try to bring in some ways of working and thinking from the world of design and see how they might be useful in other sectors and realms. So the work at Parsons was me trying to, again, get a bit more credentialed, develop some roots in that way of working and thinking. And it was a program I wasn't quite sure I was going to do, and again, was really fortunate to get a pretty significant scholarship.

Robert Burack [00:07:05]: And again, it was a program that was geared towards working professionals. And there's also something about keeping sharp your ability to learn and the skills of constant learning that were attractive in a more sort of formal program. So I think many people do a lot of research, really scan the market. I didn't do that. And so I'm here to say things can be okay as long as you really follow what's interesting and compelling.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:32]: Now, like you said, you decided to take a few years between your undergrad and your graduate work. You took some time to kind of figure things out for yourself and then made that choice to jump back in to that first master's degree. And you found success in that. You were able to transition in and through, and you finished off that degree. So talk to me about what you had to do because going through your undergrad is different than a graduate degree, and you have to, you learn in different ways. You're taught in different ways. So what did you have to do to set yourself up for success? And what did you have to do to maintain that success throughout your graduate school journey? And how did that differ between the 2 degrees?

Robert Burack [00:08:14]: I had to be really disciplined about my time in both of those graduate school programs, which was different than in undergrad. You know, I had to in undergrad, I had to get papers in on time. I had to do some of the reading at least. But the way it's structured for a lot of folks is to give you some experience of abundance of time because you want to be pouring that into your own self discovery and self development. And you a lot of folks come into a bachelor's degree undergrad experience, not exactly knowing what degree they want. It's a time of discovery. And so the luxury of time is really important. But in graduate school, I, at least in my particular setup, had to be really disciplined about time.

Robert Burack [00:09:03]: And I really quickly came to understand that one of the primary ways I was going to get value from both programs was through relationships with folks in the cohort, with faculty, with other folks who were in the kind of university orbit. And so I had to be really intentional about building, seeking out those relationships, maintaining, cultivating them. And actually, it was just last week and Buenos Aires at the wedding of a friend from graduate school who runs a design studio, and we have been talking about collaborating. So one of the ways in which those relationships bear fruit, and certainly in undergrad, you're building relationships and making friendships hopefully, but I had to approach it with a different level of intention. 1, given, again, the just constraint on time. And 2, given that I had a clearer sense of the kind of value I wanted from the the programs. And so I really sought out folks who, who kind of aligned aligned with that value and who I thought I would have something to offer them and advice.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:08]: So talk to me a little bit about the straight and narrow path that you took to Carnegie Mellon in the sense that your bachelor's of political science in some ways connects with public management. You can see that connection. But then in the new school, the degree is a little bit of a right turn, we'll say. And a lot of times when people start thinking about graduate school, they think of that linear path. They think of, I've got a bachelor's in business administration. I guess I need to get a MBA. And there's that before and after. But that one of the things that your journey shows is that the path doesn't have to be specifically linear in the sense of one degree to another, but that there may be other paths available to them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:50]: Can you talk to that?

Robert Burack [00:10:51]: I know there are professions where you tend to follow a more linear path. You can. I had the great fortune of having a liberal arts degree, which ideally teaches you to think. It develops a lot of really critical soft skills that, even in more technical fields, are in great demand. Our team has been launching an analytics and data vertical, for example, and we're really working hard to find people who have both technical expertise, but also are deep listeners and can reflect back what they're hearing. And that is, they're not in great abundance. So, you know, we need, in that case, folks who marry the technical and the soft skills. I picked political science in part because I was someone who had worked on campaigns.

Robert Burack [00:11:40]: I volunteered on campaigns in high school. I cried when Al Gore lost in 2000. It was just sort of a passion and an interest for me. And I guess I came in thinking that it was very linear, that I'll do something related to political science, and didn't quite understand until a little bit later on in the degree and certainly after the bachelor's that particularly in the liberal arts there, the number of doors open is quite significant. And when we hire now in our strategy and our planning team, we have folks who have all sorts of liberal arts degrees, anthropology, political science, marketing. As a recruiter, someone who does the hiring for our firm, I often don't pay particular attention to what the bachelor degree is. It's important for me to see that credential, but I wanna see their thinking and writing, etcetera. So, I learned that it wasn't necessarily linear.

Robert Burack [00:12:45]: But you're right that the degree at Carnegie Mellon, the master's of public management, does have a pretty direct connection to the political science degree. And, you know, I chose that because I was doing a lot of work at the time with cities and counties and municipalities. I did a stint at a think tank at Harvard that works with cities around the country, specifically thinking about how they can use data to improve public services. And you're right that the degree at Parsons at The New School was a bit of a turn, but I thought about that degree as adding a adding a skill set in a layer that could be really widely, applied. So I don't know. None of it feels linear to me looking back. And, again, I was just always doing the most interesting thing I could find to do or think to do, and that led always led to to more doors that were interesting to Walker.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:41]: Now, you've completed these master's degrees. You're continuing with your work with your consultancy firm. How do you feel that your graduate degrees prepared you for the work that you do on a daily basis?

Robert Burack [00:13:54]: A couple of connections. You know, consulting is interesting work. There's the joke that if you're driving somewhere and a consultant is in the passenger seat and you say, should I turn left or right? They say it depends. And I think there's a sort of an idea that where folks would bring up more questions and answers. But a large part of the work is, at least for us, is deep listening. That was something I had the opportunity to practice and to better hone in both of those programs. And writing is really critical. That's something across all degrees that I certainly had to practice quite a bit, a better writer because of all of those papers I had to do across all of those years of undergraduate and graduate programs.

Robert Burack [00:14:42]: And for me, writing is thinking. It's organizing my thoughts. It's really critical because we listen a lot, we take in a lot of information, and a lot of our work is synthesizing and organizing and reflecting back what we're hearing and learning as a way to give or surface new insight. So thinking, writing, really critical, and then just building and strengthening the skills of relationship building. People want to work with people that they like and often people that they know. And I get to work with all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds and got practice in building relationships with people who were both like and unlike me in all of those programs. So I think that mostly what comes up day to day is some of the softer skills that I was able to develop. I knew at the time taking a math course that I was probably not going to use most of that material.

Robert Burack [00:15:43]: But, of course, those other skills are just visible every, single day here.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:49]: Now as you think back to the education that you went through in both of those degrees, and you think of people that are coming up now and are thinking about going to graduate school, or maybe going through graduate school, what are some tips that you might offer those individuals that are considering graduate education that could help them find success sooner?

Robert Burack [00:16:09]: Cultivate opportunities outside of the classroom, again, in terms of relationships and what the institution has to offer. Use the time as a period for reflection and introspection. Really make that a priority, even if you're balancing or juggling family life and or, full time or part time work. You know, who am I? What do I want to do? What do I wanna do in this world, in this life of mine? There's so much inertia in life, and a graduate program can be an opportunity to slow down a little bit and get that critical reflection. And learning theory reflection is actually one of the critical things to really break through the ceiling of what we can learn in other ways. So take advantage of all of those things, you know, and later in life, you might not be surrounded by people also who are actively interested in mentoring, so take advantage of that. Folks who want to invest in you, want to build relationship, want to offer advice, and try to build or reinforce the habits of learning so that you're better positioned after the program to be a lifelong learner, somebody who can adapt and upskill. So, for example, I am trying to do that now and get into the mindset of lifelong learning, and I'm seeking out learning opportunities focused on generative AI prompt writing, which is really both in vogue right now, but it seems like it's going to be one of a set of next generation skills.

Robert Burack [00:17:43]: And it's a little uncomfortable for me. I mean, learning anything new can be some degree of uncomfortable, but I'm going back to the kind of habits of curiosity and knowing that if you push through, you can really get to a place where that skill brings you a lot of joy and adds benefit to your professional life. So those are some things I would suggest.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:05]: Well, Robert, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing all of this, sharing your journey with everyone. It's been a great road so far. Be interested to hear how things go in the future, and I wish you all the best.

Robert Burack [00:18:16]: Thanks. I just turned 33 the other day, and so I both feel old and recognize that I'm also very young. So there's a lot more to go, and I'm really interested to see where it unwinds, and it will continue to not be linear at all. So thank you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:33]: The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of master's and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit umflint doteduforward/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at [email protected].

Dr. Christopher Lewis, the host of Victor's in Grad School, recently had a compelling conversation with Arianna Elkins, a student in the master's in biology program at the University of Michigan Flint. The discussion delved into her journey from undergraduate to graduate studies, the decision to pursue a joint degree program, the importance of balance and time management as a graduate student, and her aspirations for the future. Arianna shared insights and tips that can benefit students considering graduate school and those already on the path to academic and professional success.

Taking Advantage of Joint Degree Programs

Arianna's decision to pursue a joint degree program during her undergraduate studies highlights the benefits of seizing educational opportunities. Through the initiative offered by the University of Michigan Flint, Arianna was able to streamline her educational path and make progress towards her master's degree while completing her bachelor's. The availability of such programs, which allow certain undergraduate courses to count toward a master's degree, can be invaluable for students aiming to accelerate their academic journey while reducing the overall time and financial commitment required for advanced studies.

Finding Passion and Purpose in Academic Pursuits

Arianna's journey from undergraduate research assistant to pursuing a master's thesis in biology exemplifies the transformative power of educational experiences. Her involvement in an aquatic science project not only fueled her passion but also set her on a trajectory towards her desired career in natural resource management. This demonstrates the significance of gaining practical experience and finding alignment between academic pursuits and personal aspirations. Students aspiring for success in graduate school can benefit from actively seeking out research opportunities and aligning academic endeavors with future career goals.

Balancing Responsibilities in Graduate School

A key aspect of Arianna's discussion was the importance of balance and time management as a graduate student. Balancing coursework, research obligations, and professional responsibilities requires deliberate planning and self-discipline. Arianna's approach involved setting priorities, establishing boundaries, and creating a schedule that allowed her to seamlessly integrate her roles as a student, researcher, and professional. Her experience underscores the significance of striking a balance to prevent burnout and ensure holistic well-being while pursuing advanced education.

Navigating the Path Forward

As Arianna approaches the culmination of her master's program, her aspirations encompass a blend of professional engagement and educational progression. Her plans to venture into natural resource management and then potentially return for a PhD, coupled with a desire to mentor future students, reflect a forward-thinking approach to career development. Her trajectory serves as an inspiration for students to envision the broader implications of their graduate education and consider how it aligns with their future career goals and aspirations.

Advice for Prospective Graduate Students

Arianna's insights culminated in practical advice for individuals considering graduate school. Her emphasis on researching job requirements, identifying potential skill gaps, and leveraging networking opportunities illuminates an essential aspect of preparing for postgraduate endeavors. This advice illuminates the significance of informed decision-making and proactive engagement in shaping one's academic and professional trajectory.

In conclusion, Arianna Elkins' journey through the master's in biology program at the University of Michigan Flint showcases the transformative impact of educational opportunities, personal passion, and strategic planning. Her insights and experiences offer valuable guidance for aspiring and current graduate students seeking to navigate the complexities of advanced education with purpose, balance, and a clear vision for the future. As her journey continues, Arianna's story serves as both an inspiration and a practical guide for those navigating the challenges and opportunities of graduate school.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, Dr. Christopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, I love being able to sit down with you, to talk to you, to work with you as you are looking at graduate school No matter where you are in this journey, and it is a journey. It is a journey that you're on, whether you are still in that undergraduate degree looking at future whether you're in a graduate program and you're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel and and working through in that way as well, there are always things that you can do To find success in the journey that you're on. And that's what this podcast is all about. I love being able to sit down with you and work with you on this because there are tips and tricks and things that you can learn from others. And that's why every week I love being able to bring you different people that have gone before you or that are going through it right now and that can give you some of their own insights to help you In the journey that you have chosen to go on as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:17]: This week, we've got another great guest. Ariana Elkins is with us. And Ariana is a student in the master's in biology program at the University of Michigan Flint. She did her undergraduate work also at the University of Michigan Flint, and we're gonna talk about that. She took advantage of a couple of different opportunities As she was going through her undergrad that allowed her to be able to work toward that master's degree. So I'm really excited to have her here and have her Share her journey with you. Ariana, thanks so much for being here today.

Arianna Elkins [00:01:51]: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:53]: It is my pleasure having you here today. I really appreciate you Sharing your own experience because typically what I do, I love going back and having you really talk about this journey that you're on. And I guess for you, you just finished your bachelor's degree. But while you were going through your bachelor's degree, you made a decision. You made a decision to Take advantage of a joint degree program. And for those of you that don't know or are on campuses that don't have these, a joint degree program is a program that allows for you while you're going through that undergraduate program to take courses as an undergraduate That will also count toward a master's degree. So Ariana took advantage of that while she was going through that bachelor's in biology to also work on a master's. Now so let's go back in time a little bit, Ariana, and tell me about what made you just choose that you wanted to take advantage of this Joint degree program and what, really, what made you choose that you wanted to go beyond the bachelor's to get the master's in general?

Arianna Elkins [00:02:55]: Yeah. So There was talk about this program being brought to campus. They were in the process of developing it, so I knew it was coming. And I felt really lucky that my My last semester of undergrad, it became available for us to take advantage of that. So, really, without thinking, I did it. Allows you to save money, save some time, and it is a little bit of an added challenge. You're taking an undergraduate class, but there's a little bit extra work in there to Have it count for a graduate class as well. So I was really happy that I had the opportunity to save money.

Arianna Elkins [00:03:31]: That was probably The biggest reason for doing it. So what got me into wanting to continue my education onto my master's degree, I had the opportunity to work as an undergrad research assistant on another master's student project. And it was involved in biology. That master's student just happened to be my good friend. So having the opportunity to work on campus, get paid on campus, and learn something new, I really didn't think twice about that opportunity either. So I found myself working on an aquatic science project. We were, For the most part, catching fish on the river. And when I first started, I couldn't even touch a fish.

Arianna Elkins [00:04:15]: I was absolutely terrified of them. It wasn't anything that I saw myself doing or enjoying, but very quickly, Not only did I enjoy it, I had I loved it. I had a great passion for it. So I actually had the opportunity. I was very, very lucky to continue Onto that project, kind of take the torch, and now I'm continuing that project as my master's thesis. So I knew that I could probably go somewhere else and get a master's degree, maybe move, have a different experience. But I knew the adviser that I would be working with, and I knew the project. So I really felt that I was just in a really good place at The perfect time, and so I took that opportunity and continued on to master's.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:01]: So you just talked about the fact that you could've decided to just Finish off your bachelor's degree. You're toward the end of your bachelor's degree, so you could have done that and and gotten that different experience. What was it about the program at the University of Michigan Flint that really made you say, no. I wanna do this joint degree. I wanna stay, And I wanna get my master's at the same institution where I got my bachelor's.

Arianna Elkins [00:05:25]: Master's is a lot different as most people probably know. It's not as credit and coursework based. So I knew that continuing on to my master's, In addition to working with my adviser more, I would be getting the added aspect of Scientific methodology and completing a research project as my thesis, which can not only be applied to fishery science, which is My goal where I'm where I'm wanting to go with my career, but can be really applied to any STEM field, anthropology as well. Really, any research project is once you understand the gist of it, you kind of understand how to do research and how to discover things Pertaining to anything in science.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:16]: So when you were doing this joint degree program, you Had the opportunity, like you said, to do courses and then do a bit more to be able to have them count for graduate work. And every person has to go through a process of doing a transition. A transition, like you said, the way that courses are taught are different. The expectations are different, and you have to get into a different type of mindset. So as you transitioned into that graduate program into becoming a graduate student. What did you have to do to set yourself up for success? And what did you have to do to maintain that success as you were going through the entire program?

Arianna Elkins [00:07:01]: I would say The university helped a lot with that. In your undergrad, you do a lot of that scientific reading and writing, and I felt like they really helped with my segue into my master's degree. But on a personal level, you definitely have to have time management skills. I know a lot of people live at home, but I don't live at home anymore. So on top of getting a degree and making sure that that's my Prime focus is advancing my education. I also have to have time to work and hobbies and things like that. So time management is a huge thing for me. That comes with self discipline, making sure that you're Getting a good amount of sleep so that you can wake up the next day, get everything you need to done, get everything that you need to get done, and then you kinda have time for your Hobbies and taking care of yourself in the house and stuff like that.

Arianna Elkins [00:07:52]: So time management partnered with a lot of self discipline and organization skills is what kind of helped my segue into my master's degree.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:01]: So talk to me a little bit about balance because as you said, You've had to work on top of being a graduate student, and you hold a managerial position. You know, you're you're working as a manager. You're doing that outside of work. You're doing research and having to maintain that research. You've got courses, And you've got to be able to keep on top of all of that, to be able to have that success in the courses that you want. So how have you been able to balance all of that and find success in the way that you've been able to balance that.

Arianna Elkins [00:08:35]: Truthfully, I experienced a lot of burnout in my undergrad. I think with just the heavy Course load. There was a lot of things each day that I had to do versus now my workload is Things that I want to do. It's I have this big time line to conduct a thesis, but it's essentially at my own pace. Those are deadlines that I have set for myself with a little bit help from my advisor. So the transition into my master's degree with that Flexibility in my schedule really helped me balance my life, my hobbies, my health, eating healthy, things like that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:16]: So it sounds like you have to really find the priorities and set those priorities for yourself And then be able to deconstruct that. So if you have to work, you have to work, but then having to figure out, okay, if I'm working if I have to work, I have to Schedule so much time to do this, but I also have to have time to do the other things that you have to do to be able to get through the courses, get through the research, get through all of that. Is that what you're saying?

Arianna Elkins [00:09:41]: Yeah. Absolutely. I think scheduling is a really big part of it. You have a boss that schedules you specific Times to work, but it's also at least for me, it works the best if I then have a set time that I'm working on my thesis or that I'm working on my classwork.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:00]: So you have about a year left in your program right now. And as you are starting to look at the future, what does the future look like for view. And where do you wanna go, and what do you wanna do next?

Arianna Elkins [00:10:10]: After I finish my thesis, which I think is going to be a really big push In the most recent future, I am planning on just getting out there and seeing what kind of jobs I can attain In natural resource management, I mentioned earlier, I'm hoping to be fisheries based, but really anything A natural resource management in the area would make me happy. And then I'm planning. I really like the idea of teaching and mentoring students. So I'm planning on getting some real world applications and education, and then maybe coming back and completing a PhD and And later being a professor so that I can share my education experience as well as the real world experience that I've gained.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:58]: So So as you think about the experience that you've gone through thus far, and I know you're still in graduate school now. And as you're talking to Other undergraduate students at your own institution or as you think about the journey that you've gone on, What are some tips that you might offer to others that are considering graduate school that would help them find success sooner?

Arianna Elkins [00:11:22]: Well, the first thing I would say is hang in there. Undergraduate is very coursework heavy and in my experience can be very draining. But the next thing thing I would recommend is start looking at jobs. Start looking at the requirements that they're asking. If Just having your bachelor's degree is going to give you a job that has the pay that you're looking for, if you even have the requirements that they're asking for, really just determining if your bachelor's is gonna be enough for something that you wanna do. That was A reason that I continued with my master's, I felt like it just opened up more opportunities for me having, a higher education. So I would just say start looking at the requirements that they're asking for on jobs and might give you an idea of if you need to do more networking on campus or if you need to do more volunteer opportunities or just ways that you might be able to fill the gaps in on your resume.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:20]: Great tips. I really appreciate it. I really appreciate you sharing all of this today, Ariana. And I am really looking forward to Hearing what your next steps are and seeing where you go from here. But I truly appreciate your time and appreciate you sharing all of this, and I wish you all the best.

Arianna Elkins [00:12:37]: Thank you. Thank you for having me. It was great, and I hope that someone finds some good tips and some help from this.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:44]: The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking or in person or online learning options. The University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit umflint.edu/graduate programs to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a Victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon as we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, Email me at [email protected].

Understanding Faculty Impact

In this enlightening conversation with Dr. Jennifer Blackwood, Director of the Physical Therapy program at the University of Michigan-Flint, students were urged to focus on the caliber of faculty when choosing a graduate program. Dr. Blackwood stressed that meaningful growth is nurtured through connections with educators who are committed to continuous learning and who wield tangible impact in their fields. The significance of building relationships and interacting with faculty beyond academic settings cannot be understated.

The Setbacks as Stepping Stones

Setbacks need not be stumbling blocks but rather stepping stones towards personal and professional enhancement. Dr. Blackwood's own journey, replete with initial rejections and challenges, is a testament to the power of perseverance.

The Making of a Mentor

Dr. Blackwood's story is a powerful nod to the value of mentorship. She underlined how effective educators not only disseminate knowledge but also provide guidance and support, preparing students for success beyond the classroom.

Flexibility and Holistic Support in Education

With an educational landscape that's increasingly dynamic, the University of Michigan Flint shines with its blend of online and in-person offerings, epitomizing the need for flexible and supportive program structures.

Beyond the Campus Aesthetics

While the beauty of a campus or resources may be alluring, Dr. Blackwood advised that looking to the quality and ethos of educators will be more conducive to one's learning. Educational accomplishments are, after all, more influenced by human interaction than by architectural marvels.

In essence, this episode emphasized the transformative power of education, the integral role of mentorship, and the importance of embracing life's challenges. These ingredients not only enrich the graduate school experience but also shape future leaders capable of making a meaningful impact.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host doctor Christopher Lewis, Director of graduate programs for the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week. This week, as always, I am here to Support you along this journey that you're on. And I say journey I say this I say journey because it is a journey. It is a journey that you are on as you're preparing for graduate school. You You may be preparing for graduate school. You may be just thinking about graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:37]: You might be in graduate school, or maybe you're looking at the that light at the end of the tunnel Come in at you as you're getting ready to be done with graduate school as well. But no matter where you're at, there are things that you can do to find in that journey that you're on, and that's what this podcast is all about. This podcast is all about helping you to find success in the journey And helping you to learn from other individuals that have gone before you, that are that are here to help you to be able to Share what they learned along the way and are here to help you to find some things that may help you as well. That's why every week I love bringing you different guests, different people that have gone before you that have gone on this journey. They come from all kinds of different backgrounds, all kinds of different majors, And they have all they all have the one thing in common, which is they went to graduate school before you, and they have figured out how to find success. So I'm really excited to be able to talk with you every week and to be able to bring these different guests to you. And this week, we got another great guest with us, Dr. Jennifer Blackwood is with us. And Dr. Blackwood is the Director of the Physical Therapy program, and a professor at the University of Michigan Flint, and She has been at the University of Michigan Flint for quite a few years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:56]: She's been here now for for quite a while working within our PT program. And along the way, she has had a number of other experiences and has Been able to bring experiences from a number of different educational backgrounds as well. So she I am really excited to be able to have her here with us today and welcome her to the show. Dr. Blackwood, thank you so much for being here today.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:02:20]: Yeah. Thanks, Chris, for having me. I'm excited to share any part of my journey and to encourage folks along the way.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:26]: Well, I really appreciate you being here, and what I love to do at the beginning is really just to Turn the clock back in time. I know you got your 1st bachelor's back at Bowling Green State University. And along the way, at Bowling Green, you had something went Through your head, you made a decision that you wanted to keep going. You wanted to go from there to continue your education and work toward that Physical therapy degree. What was going through your head, and why did you choose that you wanted to continue into graduate school?

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:02:54]: Yes. Thanks, Chris. My, my Lifetime career goal was always to become a physical therapist, and I should say always after a remarkable event in my life. And it happened to be That my mom got sick, and she needed to see a physical therapist. And with much gratitude to the physical therapist back then who taught me how to be the junior Physical therapist to help her in her exercise program and really to progress her forward. So when I was at Bowling Green, I went in as a pre PT student. And like many individuals in that time, we had 500 to 600 applicants for very few spots, 20 to 30 spots in an average PT program. And the 1st time that I, went through and applied to a physical therapy school, I didn't get in.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:03:38]: And so I reevaluated where I was. And as a student who grew up in a blue collar household, which required me to do a lot of my own Financial support for my education and certainly for progressing me forward. I decided to fast track my way out of school to get a job Before I reentered and reapplied for a to other physical therapy programs, and in particular, The one on our campus, the University of Michigan's physical therapy program. So so when I was at Bowling Green, I had a great undergrad experience, but I realized that The degree that I did receive from their bachelor's of science in biology was not my final destination. And I knew that In order to continue on, I had to continue to drive towards those goals no matter what the outcome was. And my first non acceptance in the PT school absolutely It didn't stop me, but actually allowed me to refocus, reprioritize, graduate early. So before the 4 year mark, which is Kind of unheard of in some ways, but also to go out and get a job, start making money, reapply to other programs including that one, and then Pick my choices as far as where I wanted to go.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:50]: So as you said, you applied once. You didn't get into that program. You reevaluated and decided that you were going to continue to move forward after you got some a little bit of experience, And I'm sure at that point, you had some options. You could have gone to many different programs. You could have you may have applied to many different programs. How did you decide that the University of Michigan Flint was the right school for you?

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:05:15]: Yeah. So as you may note, And all of our listeners may note too, Bowling Green is in a state that's south of Michigan. And I grew up in a house That did not bleed maize and blue, and I will tell you that right off the bat. But when I graduated from Bowling Green, I had a choice To either go into a physical therapy program that was at either a certificate or a bachelor's level or to look into graduate school, to look at the time was Most physical therapy programs were at a master's level. And I just had a point of reflection to say, I can go and pursue the same degree and achieve a bachelor's degree or to pursue A master's degree in physical therapy. And so that really opened my eyes to different area different physical therapy programs. And in particular, the one in Michigan really stuck out. I will tell you that as as a person that grew up not in the state, I had I never I had not spent a lot of time in The state of Michigan up until the point when my husband and and their family were from the Flint region, and we had come back up here for just a visit.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:06:16]: But For me, it was really this idea of looking at opportunities to advance my education that would be consistent with where I wanted to go. And so even as a younger individual, I realized that, you know, my the practice of physical therapy was something I wanted to do. But I also realized that If I had a chance to do something else, like teaching or research or something like that, I knew that I'd have to get more than just a bachelor's degree. And so when I was really kind of Considering that next step after the 1st initial rejection in applying to physical therapy schools, I realized I had to step into a direction that would feed me and support me later later on. And so that's where I really started to look at these master's programs. And the program at Michigan, you know, it stuck out in a number of ways. Number 1, it was one of the only ones at the time that we're at a master's level. And the other piece that really stuck out is just the sort of just looking at the the program as a whole and its history And its strength and its history was really something that kinda brought me to this, brought me to coming to this program and certainly applying to it.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:07:18]: But it So, you know, was something that I never anticipated. So I I never had the mason blue, the black m as something that I always wanna pursue in my life. But for me, I know it was Definitely a moment that really supported me in the process to become a physical therapist.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:33]: Now I know that as you were working As a physical therapist, you got out of graduate school, and we'll talk about that journey, about what it was like to go through graduate school. But as we're still talking about kind of going to and In selecting schools, you ended up also getting your PhD, and you ended up while you were working also working on that. You chose to go to Western Michigan University for that program. How did you choose that program?

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:07:59]: Yeah. So I had already started my career as a faculty member on our faculty at the University of Michigan And the PhD from Western Michigan was or is a PhD in interdisciplinary health sciences. And, it allowed me to utilize my my area of research that I wanted to focus on and really emphasize the interdisciplinary. And and these terms that We commonly use today is interprofessional and interprofessional practice and interprofessional education. But when I was going through this program and really investigating it, It allowed me to examine the area of research that I wanted to work on. It was flexible. It allowed me the opportunity to Complete classes sort of in a asynchronous or a hybrid mode. So where some were completed online, and then yet we still met, Every week in person or sorry.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:08:49]: One time a month in person so that we could have that gap closed and that relationship and socialization within a PhD program as a Part of this. The other piece that really came with that is the concept of being able to manage that as an individual that was working. And although I was working as a faculty member and able to Streamline and and sort of utilize my teaching and research both within my job as well as my PhD program. It allowed me to Sort of marry the 2 and then be successful on both fronts. Mind you, all at the same time where my children were young at the time. And so it was definitely a challenge, But it allowed me to put the categories of work into specific areas and then focus on those throughout the process. The fruit of our labor was great. And so within 3 years' time, I finished my PhD.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:09:36]: Of course, that may be something that seems different, But I was so focused to continue on in that journey that I didn't really wanna delay the opportunity to be successful. So I actually finished mine in just about 36 months, which is really fast and can be very difficult. But but I'm just grateful for it because I didn't wanna continue on. At that time, I wanted to take that next step. And the next step was really To sort of, decompress for a period of time, but also to start applying what I had just garnered through that education and my research to step into that next Direction and to really start making an impact on my own as a researcher.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:18]: Now going back to that experience as you were going through that master's degree in physical therapy. I know that you were successful in in going through that program. And I guess as you think back to that experience for yourself as you go from being an undergraduate and going into graduate work, especially a graduate program that is rigorous and full Time in with a lot of expectations. As you think back to that, what did you have to do as you were transitioning in To set yourself up for success, and what did you have to do to maintain that success as you went through the entire program?

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:10:54]: Yeah. That's a great question. To start off, one of the first things that drew me solidly to this program at the University of Michigan Flint was the faculty. Because It was really the only program that I heard from at the time that spoke about supporting students in a holistic Fashion. And this is before using terms like holistic admissions and stuff was what we had used. But the faculty spoke about Selecting the students and selecting the reasons why that they would choose the specific students that got into the program. And it wasn't just Highest grade leader of this and varsity athlete and things like that, but rather, they really focus on other characteristics. And later on, as I I became a faculty member.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:11:36]: I never really found out what those characteristics were because it was a different age. However, transitioning into the program, being an out of state Student, I very much knew what the cost was. I knew that my coworkers or colleagues in PT school that were in state students, they were paying one rate, and I was paying twice. So, financial, implications of my performance really drove me to learn as much as I possibly could. But The other piece of that that was so powerful was that initial experience I had with my own parents, my mom needing physical therapy. Later on, my grandma needing physical therapy. And we had a faculty member at the time, doctor Dick Darnell, former director of the program. He used to use this thing called the grandma rule.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:12:21]: And he would tell us he would say, treat your patient like you would your grandma. You always want somebody that's gonna take care of your family member, you know, insert whoever that might be. And so when I studied, I studied for my future patient. I studied for those individuals that don't have anything else, Any other hope left in them when they receive challenging diagnoses. I studied for the ability to repeat things back with Confidence knowing that I am absolutely chosen to be in this profession, but also I am chosen to help other individuals. And being a physical therapist, you meet people at a very vulnerable time in their lives, and it can be really you know, it's it's it's a privilege that not many get the chance To have. And in particular for us, like, when we put our hands on a person to try and help them with their mobility, with getting up on a chair, you know, that's That's another thing that's very challenging for for us. And so my transition into graduate school and how I focus was Based on the fact that I always used to have this joke with my classmates, like they may be buying a brand new I don't wanna name one of the top 3 carmakers, but we'll just say one of those.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:13:29]: And my cost was, like, I was buying a foreign car because it was much more than what they had had. So I did spend a lot of time almost Really trying to garner that information so that I could replicate it. Now the outcome of that was, I suppose, with better grades and you would get More confidence and things like that. But what I also realized is that those individuals around me, my classmates that supported me, was invaluable. The faculty was invaluable. And to be able to have a conversation with them and go in their office and, you know, these individuals that were Highly regarded in the profession of physical therapy in different areas. But to develop a relationship with them and be able To ask them just random questions about anything in the profession or some of the issues that we were currently experiencing in health care. And To have that as your colleague and mentor was really powerful for me as a student.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:14:24]: And then the last piece that I remember sticking out very greatly to me was when our director at the time, doctor Paulette Czubalski, you know, she got in front of our class And she just announced and said, listen. You guys are all here because we want you to be here. The weed out process is done. It's time for you to become future physical therapists. And I think that that was just a powerful moment. And so, you know, I was the type of student that was driven to learn, but So, really, the value of me being accepted at the University of Michigan's physical therapy program was not disregarded. Like, I highly valued being here. I highly valued being a student, and I just enjoyed it immensely.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:15:05]: It was like getting the opportunity to finally be able to study what you wanted to study your whole life, and that was what I did. So Just grateful to be a part of the team.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:15]: Now one of the things you just talked about was that importance of building strong relationships with Your faculty members and many students that walk into a graduate program are walking in with very wide eyes, But also a little intimidation and especially intimidation when they meet those faculty members with all the credentials and the work experience And such, and many times students don't exactly know how do I put my best foot forward to build those strong relationships. As as a professor now in the program, what do you say to those students about some of the best ways in which They can start to build those relationships from day 1.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:16:00]: I think as a group, we've taken it upon ourselves, a group of faculty, Educators in physical therapy, we've actually tried to reverse that a little bit. In in the manner in which we do that is sort of that 1st day introduction. It's not, You know, the students, anybody can do a Google search of an individual and find out all the accolades that they have and, you know, how how many awards and things that they've gotten. But When we introduce ourselves, we introduce ourselves just very briefly. And one of the greatest things about my job as a director is to promote The faculty so many times because they receive all these awards and these these, publications and presentations, but oftentimes, they don't talk about them quite as much. I get the chance to do that. But when it comes to a student going through that process, our faculty introduce ourselves, but then, Student going through that process, our faculty introduce ourselves. But then, typically, we ask for some small bit of information, information about them That is not related to academics.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:16:50]: So it's not I call myself, you know, whatever it is. It's something that might be related to performance in academics. So it's not like, you know, I have difficulty reading long texts or something like that. That's not the point that we want from our students. But rather what we need is need information about them. That way we can start to build that relationship. And so, for example, I just recently did this, send out some note cards to students. They an item, and now I have a little nugget of information that we build off of.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:17:16]: And we continue to have that opportunity to, you know, share that piece of our lives together. The other thing that we've actually done too is we've built in small pieces of socialization and service at the same time. Our pro bono clinic is one of them, HEART, where you get the chance to work alongside faculty, but oftentimes, we'll be serving in the community, whether it's at the food bank, whether it's, at a another service activity that's held within the Flint or Genesee County region. So then when it comes down to faculty or students Getting to learn their faculty. I think what it boils down to, like, my greatest encouragement, and I would say this to any undergrad student, high schooler that's gonna go into College or even a student that's gonna go into grad school is to get the chance to know their faculty members. And so if they have office hours, come to office hours. If they have a Social event, a coffee event, something like that, then come in and come in with sort of the humanistic approach. It doesn't necessarily have to be this every time a student goes to see a faculty member to ask a question about the information, but rather to say, you know, I'm also did you get a chance to watch a game on Friday? Oh, yeah.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:18:24]: I did. And then you start sharing that. Well, that relationship builds into more. And then the other piece that I think is really powerful is when students get a chance to participate in their professional socialization. So if it is something that's related to their degree And there happens to be like a, a research presentation or something like that where they get the chance to listen and participate in those activities. If they get the chance to go to a conference, whether it's supported or not from internal resources, by all means, go to those things. Talk with the faculty and then really kind of get that mentorship that, it's not always formative. Usually, it's, something that usually, it's something that happens just implicitly, and it's not something where you have to as a student, you have to sit and receive everything the faculty member is trying to provide for them, but rather to give them the chance to build that relationship.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:19:15]: It's All about spending time and then sharing life experiences with them.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:20]: I really appreciate you sharing that because I think that is important and Not always something that undergraduate students do in the best way or they don't always develop those relationships. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. And so I think it's important to understand that that is a part that is something that can definitely help them. Now you also mentioned just this a few minutes ago, The the pro bono clinic that you have here, and I know that for programs like yours, many students are going to be taking advantage of many types of clinical opportunities. And as they're looking at programs and considering programs that have a heavy component to that practical learning That they're trying to find information to see what specifically separates programs from one another. As you talk to prospective students For your program, how do you help them to or and what do you what would you say that they should be doing, asking As they're looking at clinical opportunities, especially for programs that have those opportunities available, That would help them to differentiate programs from one another.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:20:24]: Yeah. I think one of the greatest things that a person can do if they're comparing different Graduate programs, in this case, physical therapy programs and their clinical education, is to just ask A question about the number and the variability between sites. Because oftentimes, I get questions from students. Do we have a special Affiliation. Do we have a clinical affiliation in a specific area? And sometimes it happens to be sports. Sports are is a an area of practice that some students are interested in. And we do have those, but we don't have 60 or a 180 depending on how many students are out in the clinic at any one given time. That's because it's just a special area of practice.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:21:05]: So I think if a student is looking at different physical therapy schools, I think you need to ask just about the number of sites available and what that selection process is like. Because although you may have a program that may have, let's say, 30 different sites in sports, it may not be every year, maybe every other year, or you may have They have special credentials to be able to even participate in that. So regardless of what is what regardless of the type of Clinical education experiences a student goes through. They have a career of practice ahead of them. And sometimes, participating in various components of their clinical education. They may find that there is an area of Practice that they thought they always wanted to go into that now they no longer wanna go into. So my communication is always about a growth mindset. Like, Don't necessarily think the only way that you were gonna be this excellent physical therapist is by doing this type of, Educational experience and this one, then this one, then this one.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:22:02]: And then you're gonna have the job that you've always wanted because I guarantee it's gonna change, number 1, and that's okay. But the other thing is is in order for us to be really good at 1 area and have passion about 1 area of practice, we have to be exposed to these other areas. So I think the idea of asking the faculty or the administrators of a Physical therapy program or any health related program about those types of experiences that are available in the selection process. If that meets your needs, I think that's sufficient. The question I would ask if I was say this is one of my children that wanted to become a physical therapist or whatnot would be, How many of those clinical instructors at those facilities have credentialing from, example, the American Physical Therapy Association as Clinical instructors, which means that these physical therapists, supervisors, or preceptors go out and they receive specialized Training to take students and to educate students in that clinical environment. I think that's very powerful. Because you could go out into 2 places. Let's just use the example example of geriatrics, which is the area that I I generally practice in or my specialization.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:23:11]: You could have 2 geriatric facilities and all things equal, The clinical instructor that has the American Physical Therapy Associated credentialing as a clinical instructor may be a better clinical instructor and preceptor and mentor than the other individual that doesn't hold those. And I just think it's it really provides us with an opportunity to say These individuals have gone out and received extra training to be clinical educators, and I think that that's very powerful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:40]: Now as a faculty member, as a Professor is someone that has gone through graduate school and is now utilizing what you've learned on a daily basis To educate others. You've given different pieces of advice today, but as you're thinking about individuals, whether they're going to graduate school for physical therapy, Business or whatever it might, but they're looking at going on to get that graduate degree to continue on toward the goals that they've set for themselves. What are some tips that you might wanna offer every student as they're considering graduate education that could help them find success sooner?

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:24:15]: You know, I think The quality of the faculty that guide you is gonna be key. And the relationships that they have, not only with their profession, but also maybe within the university or within the community. Because I don't think anybody goes into graduate education to remain at the same point when they've graduated. I don't think anybody Goes on to get a master's degree or a doctoral degree or even a PhD will will want to be in that same sort of space in life that they were in when they started this. So that mentorship is gonna be vital. The quality of the faculty is gonna be vital. And then the 2nd piece of that are those other experiences that come along with this. So oftentimes, we talk about the explicit and the implicit curricula of a program.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:24:59]: So our explicit curricula are these are the classes you have to take. These are the books you have to buy. This is the process that you have to go through. But sort of that Implicit information. The information about how the faculty of that various program is gonna Push you to be able to be the best version of yourself at the end is really what a person needs. I also think that As a program director, I think the equipment space and our resources that we have in our program is excellent. And I'm very proud of the information And the spaces that we have. However, I say that sometimes and I was I was prone to this as a younger person when I when I selected some schools.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:25:40]: The sort of brick and mortar that you have within, within higher education, you know, the beautiful grounds and the things of that nature, Those are all good, but you don't learn from buildings. You learn from your faculty. And I really think that Speaking human being to human being and other parents, other students that are thinking of going in and encouraging another person or encouraging themselves to take that step and to go into graduate schooler to go into higher education, the quality of those educators is going to be key. And I just think we have to keep our eyeballs on that. If you're looking at a field that's high in research or really focused in that area or should be, those faculty should also be sort of leaders in that field as well. If it's clinical practice or health care, the same thing. If you're looking at, you know, any programs whether in the health professions, Like, how many of those faculty are still practicing within that profession? How many of those people are serving in the community? And I think that really gives us an opportunity to recognize the priorities within those individuals and how we as future professionals in that area can benefit from them. And then the last Piece that I would just tell students is or applicants is don't worry about don't fret too much about the circumstances today.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:26:57]: Because Like myself, I had to get a couple no's before I finally got the right yes. I had to go and experience some things that were quite challenging in my life, Personal life and then my professional life. To be able to be at the point where I'm at now, all things considered, you know, none of those things that they were Taken away would have made me in the person that I am today. So all of that was very, very purposeful. And even though It was challenging at times, and, you know, if everything went my way, I would have gotten a degree from a different institution a long time ago. But I guarantee that if that was the case, I wouldn't be in this position today. So I can say that as a person that's been in the field for x amount of time, I know sometimes it's not always comforting, but I think it's one of those things where it will all work out. And we're here to support when students are in our program, and we wanna see the best version of our students at their outcome and certainly support them in that process.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:27:51]: But it's one of the things that looking down the tunnel when you don't see that light sometimes can be a little bit overwhelming for folks that are not in my current position.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:59]: Now one follow-up that I'd love to get your take on. You talk about that sometimes students are making decisions based on how pretty the campus is and the Facilities and not always the teaching and the people that are there. I guess 1 question that I would ask is, are there questions? Are there things that someone can ask that would help them to ferret out the quality of instruction, the quality of instructors That may not be apparent from what they see only on a page.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:28:32]: Yeah. I think this goes back to that idea of Sort of cultural humility as a faculty member, and you can hear it when individuals talk. So the idea of, like, a student might ask, what are you working on now to improve the program or to improve your your teaching instruction, your research, things of that nature? And I think that piece of being a continuous learner is something that does not stop when you become a professor or associate professor or any type of faculty member. And I think knowing that we're all still on that journey, we're all still trying to figure this out. I think that's a piece that a student could ask. And so, like, as you go to these programs And you interview the faculty, and really, you should. You should interview and say, do I do I fit in this situation? Like, that's sort of that mental question. But The questions to ask a faculty member would say, you know, what areas of research are you still working on? What what's something that you haven't solved that you wanna look at in the future if If you're looking into research focused, programs, if you're looking at just sort of the education that they provide, you know, what's one comment that a student had provided in the paths that you're really trying to change about the way that you teach or about the way that you're instructing.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:29:43]: And I think that's just a really great opportunity for us to say whether or not these individuals are reflecting and changing and modifying and updating, and whether or not they're willing to tell us that. I think that's the other piece because Faculty do this all the time. They change their classes. They change what's going on within the class. They they modify what they're teaching, and they're always constantly in revision. But to be able to demonstrate that indicates that the student could participate in that process. The last piece that I would also say is, you know, there's great things that every institution is doing, and that's just wonderful because they're educating folks to go out and change the world. And I think as a Student that's really on the border to say, do I belong here or do I belong there? To ask the question to the faculty member or the program director to say, How am I gonna make an impact in this profession, this community, whatever it is, when I'm done? And it can't just be the answer of, well, you're gonna pass The licensure exam first time.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:30:43]: You're gonna it's sort of the the lowest threshold, if you will, to enter a profession. But more importantly, like, to really recognize What's my impact today on this community as I develop into a professional, as I go through my graduate program, and what's gonna be the impact later on? Because believe it or not, born and raised in Ohio, I am a part of the Michigan family. I bleed maize and blue finally after all these years, but I not really. I've Been bleeding majors in blue for a while. But, you know, if you think about being the leaders and best, what we do makes a difference today, But also very much significantly in the future. And so that's always been my my focus. And if we're not doing it today, we've got a goal that we're working towards. And I would just say when students are also considering graduate programs, you've gotta be able to identify where you're gonna move in the future, your what your final career goal will be, And then how you can start walking towards that today, not just when you get the diploma, but how your faculty can guide you in that process.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:46]: Well, Dr. Blackwood, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing your journey today, for sharing all of these pieces of advice. I know that I have really appreciated learning more about your own journey, but also about The things that you are doing to try to differentiate not only your program, but helping students as they transition into graduate school. And I truly wish you all the best.

Dr. Jennifer Blackwood [00:32:10]: Yeah. Thanks, Chris, and go blue.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:12]: The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs. For more information on any of our graduate programs, visit umflint.edu/graduateprograms To find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon As we embark together on your graduate school journey, if you have any questions or want to reach out, email me at [email protected]

Embarking on the Journey

Graduate school acts as a beacon for those seeking to elevate their academic prowess and career trajectory. In our latest 'Dads with Daughters' episode, Victor's in Grad School, Dr. Christopher Lewis sheds light on what it takes to navigate this crucial phase with the poise of a seasoned scholar. From the higher salaries and advancement opportunities that often follow an advanced degree to the intrinsic reward of mastering your chosen field, the pursuit of graduate education is filled with both promise and challenge.

Charting the Course

Success in grad school goes beyond intellectual capacity; it is about nurturing the characteristics that define graduate-level scholars. Preparedness for academic rigors, a comprehensive understanding of the graduate vs. undergraduate landscape, and adopting a collaborative mindset are pivotal. Graduate education is a different ballgame—larger in scope and depth—demanding a more proactive and engaging effort from its participants.

Managing Time, Maximizing Potential

Time management is at the heart of a graduate student's success. Critical tools such as Google Task and Google Calendar can serve as lifelines in a sea of deadlines and commitments. But thriving in grad school isn't just about keeping a calendar; it's about resilience and adaptability. With the right environment and the right tools, challenges become mere stepping-stones on your path to academic and professional excellence.

Fostering Academic Relationships

The relationship with faculty can break or make a graduate experience. Securing a faculty mentor and approaching initial meetings with well-thought-out questions and clear goals can forge connections that not only enhance learning but also open doors to career opportunities. This mentorship extends beyond the classroom, offering insights and support in navigating the often complex terrain of graduate research and career planning.

Career and Personal Development

Leveraging campus resources like career services is crucial. Small actions, such as checking campus email regularly, joining student organizations, and attending networking events, compound over time, laying the foundation for a robust professional network and a well-rounded personal development arsenal.

Financial Strategy

Dr. Lewis doesn't skirt around the financial implications of grad school. He stresses the importance of being proactive in seeking out financial support through FAFSA, scholarships, and graduate assistantships. Sound financial planning includes budgeting wisely, establishing good credit, exploring loan options, and considering part-time employment to manage the fiscal responsibility of graduate education.

Tapping into University Resources

Our episode highlights resources at institutions like the University of Michigan Flint, where aspirants can find a trove of information from the graduate programs page to in-depth podcasts, inquiry forms, and personalized assistance from the Graduate Office. These resources are instrumental in helping prospective students chart their graduate school journey.

Conclusion

The road to graduate school success is paved with preparation, adaptability, and a robust support network. As Dr. Lewis emphasizes, the journey is not only about achieving academic accolades but also about personal growth and finding joy in the pursuit of knowledge. Engaging with the content of the 'Victor's in Grad School' episode offers a blueprint for incoming graduate students to approach their studies with strategy, resourcefulness, and resilience.

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]: Welcome to the Victor's in Grad School, where we have conversations with students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to find success in graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]: Good morning. Thank you so much for being here today. My My name is doctor Christopher Lewis. I am the director of graduate programs at the University of Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you here today, and and I really appreciate you being, interested in this topic and interested in being a part of this graduate school journey. Today, we're gonna be talking about graduate school success and what you can do to be able to find success in that journey that you're on. It is definitely a journey and something that every person has to go through that is going to be a little bit unique to each and every one of you. But today, I'm hoping to be able to share some things, some things that you can think about, some things that you can start to prepare for So that when you do make that transition into graduate school, it's not so foreign, but also that you can start things on the right foot and start moving in the right direction right from the moment that you start.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:10]: Feel free today to use the chat to be able to Ask any questions that you might have, and and we'll have some time at the end as well. I did ask that everybody Please go to the participant tab, click on the 3 dots next to your name, and update Your name to have your full name there so that we can send out the code to you afterwards for the free application. I would really appreciate if you can take the time to do that. And if you can't do that, just go ahead and add in the chat your name and we can and I can add it then. Okay. So why don't we get started? And I see people In the chat already using it, that's great. I'm so glad that you're using that. Feel free to definitely introduce yourself, ask your questions, And put things in there, and then we'll answer other questions at the end.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:12]: K. So let's Start jump in and start talking about graduate school success. Here's some of the things that we're gonna be talking about today. Excited to be able to chat with you and to be able to talk to you About all of these different things. But first and foremost, we're gonna be talking about graduate education, why you should be thinking about it, why and if you're here, most likely you are thinking about it, But why it's important to think about it, especially in today's society and in today for for your career trajectory. We're gonna talk about some characteristics, some things that we have seen not only here at the University of Michigan Flint, but in general about what it takes to be a successful grad student. Talk about those relationships that you want to build with faculty members. Talk about career development, employability, those Hard skills, soft skills, things that you're going to be learning in the class and outside of the class that will help you to be able to, to be able to Be prepared for the workforce.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:08]: Be prepared to going and taking that graduate education into employment. Talk about getting involved in ways in which you can get involved as you move further down your graduate school path, and then finally talking about some financial considerations and support that are available as you're going through graduate school. So first and foremost, let's talk about graduate education. In grad school, why should you do it? Why should you even consider grad school? Well, first and foremost, when you look at research and you look at the That individuals that have gone and gotten a graduate degree, advantage of earning a graduate degree is that it will lead to a higher salary As well as advancement opportunities for you in your career. In the more education that you get as you look at studies that are out, Out there on this, the more education that someone gets, the more opportunities that they have to advance in their career, the more opportunities that they have to To gain up to 20 to 30 times the amount over the lifespan of that career within that career. So it is important to be able to consider and look at the opportunities that lie in front of you that will allow for you to be able to get that further education that will move you further in your own career journey. It also gives you A more competitive advantage when you're applying for jobs, when you're applying for advancement opportunities within your work because you've set yourself, you set yourself apart from other individuals. Also, depending on the opportunities that you've taken within your graduate work, You have the opportunity to be able to do research or to be able to delve deeper into specific topics, specific areas, things that you are passionate about, Things that you're interested in that will help you to define that career trajectory for yourself as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:07]: As you're in graduate school, you have an opportunity to build a network of individuals around you from the students that you're going to be studying with, to the faculty you're going to be studying with, And even looking beyond that, there are definitely, opportunities within graduate school where you can go and do Clinical experiences or internships, externships. There's lots of different words for them, but there are a lot of opportunities for you to be able to get those Practical skills where you can build that network for yourself that can open doors, whether it's at the company that you may be in or working with or tangentially to other organizations or other people that those people know. So it does become important that you that you do take the time to be able to meet people within your program, to get to know the people within your program because you never know who those people will be able to introduce you to, to help you, to be able to get that foot in the door, to be able so that you can then potentially open up career opportunities for yourself. There are lots of opportunities for growth Within a graduate degree, not only on the your academic learning, but within the skills that you need to be Successful as a leader, the skills that you need to be successful as a communicator. There's lots of other soft skills per se That you're going to be learning along the way, and I encourage you to explore all of those because employers are looking for those as well. Getting a graduate degree can help you to change careers. So some of you may be thinking and saying, you know what? I've been working in this area for a little bit, And getting a graduate degree will help me to move in the the direction that I really wanna move to be able to Have the career that I want to have eventually. And if that's the case, that's great.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:07:10]: And just know that As you're going through, again, take advantage of building that network, making strong relationships that we're gonna be talking about with your faculty members. All of those things are going to help you to be able to transition into a new career area in that regard. It also opens up the ability for you to be seen in a different light. It adds credibility to you as an individual Because you're bringing additional education, bringing additional expertise into that work setting, into The ethos of the world, and you have the opportunity then to be able to expand upon that and go from there. Advanced education also opens up opportunities for you in many different ways. We talked about career opportunities, but it could open up other opportunities. You never know where that might lie. You may do some research with a faculty member that might turn into a, an opportunity to write a paper that goes into a journal or into Some other scholarly publication that will open up other doors for you.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:20]: And then beyond that, as I talked about networking, Alumni networks are so important. There are people that have gone before you and you need to look at that as well. The University of Michigan has one of the largest alumni networks in the world. And as you look at different institutions, you need to look at that. You need to look at, You know, what kind of abilities are there for me to reach out to that alumni network to be able to help me to get to where I want to go? So when you think about your when you think about stepping into a graduate program, there are definitely some characteristics characteristics that we have seen of successful graduate students. And One of the things that I would put out here first is that individuals that are, stepping into this type of a role, stepping into this type of a, of a program need to prepare themselves. They've gotta prepare themselves for the academic rigor And the difference between undergrad and grad. Some of you may be coming in with additional graduate work.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:09:25]: That's great. And if that's if you've already gone through that process, Kudos to you. You and you probably have an idea of what is in store for you. If you have never gotten a graduate degree Before, one of the biggest differences in between undergrad and grad is the way in which you're going to be educated. Especially here in the US, you're going to find that at US institutions, what tends to happen is In a undergraduate setting, you tend to be taught by the teacher. The teacher is in front teaching you and pushing that knowledge to you. Whereas in a graduate sense, 1, you're going to be delving into a topic that is much more niche And you're just focusing on that topic. But too many faculty members will teach in a way where it's a collaborative approach to learning.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:10:19]: So the faculty member is definitely going to push you and teach you and to educate you on different topics, But they're also going to be drawing out conversation and getting you to be part of the learning that is happening within the classroom itself. So a different type of focus, a different type of way in which You will learn a different type of way in which, you're the rest of the students in the classroom are going to learn, And you have to understand that that difference is going to be there and is going to happen. You also are going to be challenged in many different graduate Programs to do research and if you've never done research before, research is is challenging. It definitely can be something that will We'll push you in many different directions, and you will have to push yourself to learn new things about how to As you see here, the all these are all the steps of research and critical thinking, but these are all different things that in any Pretty much any graduate program that you're gonna be pushed to have to do. So you're gonna have to be able to identify the a problem, be able to research and find out more about that problem, look at the data and the relevance to the data, ask questions further to be able to hone the topic even further, be able to then Identify the best solution for the problem that has been that you have put out there or that has been presented to you and present be able to present your solution And analyze the decision for the choice that you made. Now not every undergraduate student goes through an experience like that where you're Pushed to think about things that deeply at graduate level, you will be. And so the way that you are being Taught the way that you are learning is going to be different. Other successful students, and I don't have this down as as a bullet point specifically, But we'll we'll I'm gonna go to the next slide, and we'll we'll talk a little bit further.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:12:25]: But other other things that we found is time management. In organization, graduate students are balancing a lot of different things. So some of the things that that students need to prepare themselves for is to be able To identify strategies for themselves that are going to help them to balance their work life, Their school life, their personal life, and find ways to best balance that for themselves. Now many students will find that they really need to have some type of a a calendar or something tangible that can help them to set up a schedule for themselves, especially if they're trying to work and do school and have a family, you know, and and and Scheduling time or the things that you know that you need to be scheduling for will help you to be able to make sure that you stay on track And that it allows for you to be able to separate out. I'm working here. I'm doing school here. I'm, you know, spending time Doing this with friends and spending time with family. It is definitely important to have that support that support system behind you, Whether you have a family or if you have friends, you know, it is going to be really important to be able To have those people coming into graduate school, and when you get here, you have to be open to building new systems of support In finding the resources that are available at the school that you go to, whether it's other students in your program, whether it's other Services that are offered on campus, you wanna make sure that you tap into the support that you need early on to make sure that you're going to be successful as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:14:15]: As you're looking at graduate programs, you're definitely going to want to make sure that you're, Well, as you're niching down and you're figuring out exactly what you wanna study, that you wanna study something that you're truly passionate about because you're gonna be Studying for, let's say, 2 years on a specific topic, and all you're going to be studying is that specific topic. If you're not passionate about it, it's gonna show. It's gonna show in your grades. It's gonna show in the research that you do and anything else that you do. So you wanna make sure that in the decision that you're making and the program that you're looking into, that it is definitely a passion area and something that you want to be able to go even deeper on to be able to, be able to make sure that you're going to be able to be successful In that, in that transition to graduate school for yourself. You wanna use resources, I mentioned that already, but there's lots of different Resources that are available on campus that can aid or assist you in many different ways, and you have to open yourself up to knowing that You may need help that you didn't need an undergrad. I had a graduate student that contacted me recently that was taking a biostatistics class And was a bit lost and asked if there were tutors available for statistics. And this student was a little embarrassed by it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:38]: And I said to the student, there's nothing to be embarrassed about. You're asking for support. You're asking for help. You're identifying that this is an area that is a bit, that is going to be a bit bit of a challenge and that's okay. What ends up happening that's more of an issue is if you keep pushing through thinking, I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out. And as you get further on in the term, you get further lost because you haven't asked for help.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:16:10]: There's nothing wrong with asking for help, And faculty love it when students ask for help. Just because they may be seen as an expert in their field Does not mean that they don't have compassion or empathy to what you're going through and that they won't be able to open doors for you or show you where resources lie. There are definitely other resources on campus that can help you along the way with time management or other aspects. On many on most campuses, you're going to find that they have counseling centers. We ours is called CAPS, Which is a counseling and psychological services center. And that is definitely there for any student to be able to access whether they're Stressing out over test anxiety or whether they just need someone to talk to to deal with some other things that are happening in in school, out of school, take advantage of those. If you feel like you might have a learning disability or Something that you need some additional support on, reach out to the disability services office, right, when you get here. If you're a veteran, look look for Veterans services offices to talk to them and to make sure that you're taking advantage of the resources that are out there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:28]: You definitely wanna stay healthy, and healthy is not only eating right, but it's also exercising. It's taking time for yourself To find, to take, to, to be able to relieve that stress. And each one of you is going to be a little bit different in regard to How you find that that, that health for yourself. Some of you, it may be you need to hit the gym every morning at 8 AM. That's great. For some others, it may be that you need to go on a walk every day or that you need to make sure that you're eating a balanced, balanced meal, you know, 3 times a day. There's lots of different ways that you can stay healthy, but by staying healthy physically and mentally, You're going to be able to keep up the momentum of graduate school. Graduate school can definitely be Challenging and stressful.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:18:26]: You've got to find time to relax and have some fun along the way and know that yes, you're here because You've been admitted to a program and that program is going to be rigorous, but that You also need to find time for yourself and be able to separate school and outside of school so that you can Take a break, take a breather, and be able to get your mind where it needs to be so that you can stay on track at school. And I always put down keep your goals in in mind, keep those in the forefront of your mind. That's going to help you to be able to Make sure that you keep pushing toward the light at the end of the tunnel and allow for you to be able to make sure that you're going to be able to be successful. Lots of other resources, that I haven't mentioned yet. If your campus has if the campus that you're looking at has a writing center or if you don't know, ask. Do is there a writing center? Can graduate students take advantage of it? We have a writing center right in the building that I am in right here at the University of Michigan Flint. Any student can go to it and you can work with, writing I'm gonna say tutors, but But really they're they're people that are getting paid to be able to help you and look at your writing to give you some some assistance in being able to Unblock your mind per se and help you to start moving in the right direction when it comes to the expectations for writing and writing within the graduate program. The library and library staff is definitely something that will hope will help you to be able to Get access to the resources that you need to be able to delve deeper, especially if you're doing research.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:18]: But also Many many libraries will also have your textbooks or other supplemental texts that will help you to better understand topics. I talked about staying on schedule, Google task, Google calendar. Great resources. If you've never used them, check them out. They're free resources that can help you to be able to manage your time, your productivity in many different ways. You have to also be adaptable and resilient. There are going to be times during your graduate program Where you will get frustrated, where you might hit a proverbial wall and you are Doing everything you can to get over that wall and you feel like it's a losing battle. I'm not saying that to be be negative in any sense.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:08]: It's just a reality for any of us that have gone to graduate school in the past. You will hit it at some point. And if you don't, That's amazing. But if you do, just know that the sign of a successful person is someone that can hit that wall, bounce back, And figure out a different way, figure out another way, figure out a a way to be able to either get help To get over the wall, to get around the wall, to do whatever you can to be able to, to be able to move To the place where you're going. And then as you're looking at graduate programs, you definitely wanna look for supportive and nurturing environments. You want to be in an environment that is going to lift you up and not tear you down. And so as you're looking at programs, you wanna look at that as well. I talked about the importance of building relationships with your faculty members that, as you transition into graduate school, the Relationships that you're going to have with your faculty are going to become more intimate in regard to the how you get to know them and how they will and mentor you as an individual as you go through that graduate degree.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:24]: And faculty know that And they are hoping that you will take them up on those opportunities. Many programs will allow for you to have a faculty advisor, and they might call it a faculty mentor, but You're going to be assigned to someone in your program. Get to know that person. Really get to know that person. What are, you know, what are they studying? What are they researching? What what's been their professional experience and what can they do to be able to help you to prepare for That next stage, they're definitely going to be there to help you understand academics and understand what you need to do to graduate. But beyond that, Most faculty members at all institutions come to the classroom with a wealth of different experiences, and it's that experience That you are going to want to draw from to be able to learn and grow from them. So even if you don't have them as a professor in your class, you could still learn from them and learn from The things that went well for them, learn from things that they that didn't go well and that they had to learn and grow from. And by doing that, you're going to be a you're gonna be even more prepared for your life after graduate school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:48]: As you look to sit down with your faculty mentor, your faculty advisor for the first time, some things to think about And things to do to prepare for the meeting. Come prepared with questions, make sure that you have questions, topics that you wanna discuss, know that they're going to want to delve a little bit deeper into especially in your 1st meeting Who you are, why you're in the program, why you're interested in the career field, and what your end goals are Because they're gonna wanna see, okay, what can I do to support this student as they're going through our program? As you prepare for this, make sure that you set a meeting. Don't just show up at their office or if you do show up at their office, just say, Would you mind if we set up a meeting so that we could so that I could get to know you a little bit better, and we could talk about my My plan for the program. And then and just don't expect that if you show up at their door that they will have time right then to meet with you. But give them an out and allow for them to be able to, to be able to give you other times that may work. So by preparing for the meeting, you'll be able to ask those informed questions, those things that you've thought out, the things that are important to you, And be able to then talk about the plan that you have to that are going to push you toward getting to the next Step of your own career journey. And as you're talking about that, there's nothing wrong with asking, asking for assistance, asking for help. If there's something specific that you're trying to accomplish, talk to them about it.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:40]: They have worked with students for probably many years And have worked to help students in many different ways. So by you being candid about what you need and what you're trying to accomplish, They can better support you down the road. As after that meeting, after You meet with your faculty mentor, definitely look make sure you that you take notes and then synthesize what you've learned To be able to connect together what your mentor has told you, what you need to do for your academic program, And what you want to also accomplish outside of the classroom as well. So all of those pieces will help you to move forward in Your graduate education. Most campuses have a robust career services or career development office With employees that are there to aid students, sometimes those individuals are spread out into Different colleges. So you might if you're in a college of education, there may be someone that's specifically tailored toward working toward education graduates. Other times, it is overarching career services or career development, And they will work with all students no matter what career area that they're in. These offices also many times will hear about internships or other opportunities that are available to students.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:12]: They will email students, but they will also have things posted in their office. And by having a strong relationship with that individual, they're gonna be thinking about you while they get these emails and they might start sending you emails. Speaking about email, one of the things that I will say is that When you go to a graduate program, they're going to give you a campus email. Make sure that you check that email numerous times a week And read the emails that are sent to you. You do not wanna miss out on opportunities. And too often, students are, You know, they're not big fans of email, and they don't read the email. And then when they finally do, it's too late. And then they miss out on opportunities that might have, that might have existed.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:04]: There's also opportunities for you to get involved on campus. So this is starting to get into To not only the in class academic learning, but also that out of class learning that also happens. Now this may be seen as soft skills, but leadership, communication, budgeting, you know, lots of different things that will allow for you to be able to enhance skills that will prepare you for your work after graduate school. There are student organizations that are set up that might be program specific, so organizations for your academic area. But there could be other organizations such as we have a brand new organization on campus that just started. They had their 1st meeting Just recently, and it's a students of color graduate organization. That's what it's called right now, and they may change their name down down the line. But the nice thing is is that they built this organization to create community.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:09]: And From the get go, there's been lots of opportunities for leadership because it's a brand new student organization. So that's something that you could step into at your own institution To look at what type of organizations exist, how could I get involved, is it just going to an activity or an event, Is it that I want to be an actual leader in the organization? Whatever ways that you feel like you're compelled to do, All of those things are going to help you to learn a lot about yourself, but also learn a lot for your career In the future, especially in regards to working with others, speaking to groups, being able to fundraise or being able to budget, You know, it depends on the organization and what the plan or the goal is, but there are definitely lots of opportunities to be able to do just that. So graduate school can be expensive and definitely something that you have to consider is the financials Of the of graduate school, but also scholarships that may be available. For domestic students, you wanna make sure that That you do fill out the FAFSA form. The FAFSA is the free application for federal student aid. It is for US residents. And if you you may have used this for your undergraduate degree too, many times students tell me, well, I'm not gonna fill that out because I'm not gonna get anything. But I what I always say is by filling the FAFSA out, you're making yourself eligible not only for loans, grants, Scholarships from the federal government.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:47]: But on top of that, it may open you up for other scholarships that are need based or other type of scholarships That are from the institution in general. So taking the time to be able to be able to put that in and be able to have that considered will only assist. You definitely wanna look at every school. Every school that you're going to should have information about Scholarships that are available or other financial, need that can be provided to you as a student. So you wanna look at that? I have a link here, off of our main graduate programs page called paying for college. And on that, you're going you would see specific scholarships that are listed, but then also, links to our to our, our scholarship application because you do have to go into a separate scholarship application to apply for scholarships. So you need to look at That at the institutions that you're considering as well. There are external scholarships that are also available.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:54]: And external scholarships are scholarships that you might find on the scholarship search engines similar to what you see here, Fastweb, CapEx, Unigo, GoGrad, all of those are different entities that bring together Individual scholarships from all over the world and from the answers that you give on Their intake form, many times they will start to email you with different possible scholarships, that you could apply for. Now that takes some time and definitely can, be something that that students choose to or not choose to do. But I will say the more that you do that, the more opportunities that may exist. And I encourage students to always apply for scholarships that they are eligible for. Assistantships is another way that graduate School can get paid for, at least in some ways. Graduate assistantships are salaried positions and basically they are I mean, here at our institution, we use them for graduate research. So you would apply for a graduate research Assistantship. And and in that research assistantship, you would be paired With a faculty member that is doing research on a specific topic, and you would then start working with that faculty member To be able to make sure that you are able to put, that you're able to, that you're able to then work 1 on 1 with that faculty member to be able to, work on getting the research out there.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:48]: So So you're getting paid as a in an hourly wage. And at the end of a period of time, you will get a paycheck That'll get submitted to you to be able to use for it could be being used for your tuition. It could be used for Your groceries or other factors as well. I I mentioned that at our institution, we do a lot of research, but In that, but there are other campuses that may have staff type positions as well. And There are some programs that require you to be in in an assistantship to have a spot in the program. There are other programs that don't have that, And that it's just a add on. And if you decide to apply for those, that's even better. So, so that's some some things to keep in mind.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:42]: The differences between the institutions are going to be very unique. So scholarships are going to be vastly different. By the way they do research, research may be different. The way that they do assistantships may be different. So all of those things are things that you're going to wanna think about And look into as you're considering your graduate program itself. Couple other things. You definitely want to make sure that you are budgeting in graduate school and you are able to, And you're able to make sure that you, can set a budget for yourself. As I said, graduate school will cost money.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:27]: It is it can be expensive, and you wanna make sure that you understand what the reality is and what your budget needs to look like to be able to be successful in in being able to be Financially successful in that journey. Make sure that you're building good credit while you're in school. Don't put everything on a credit card And not pay it off because that's going to lead toward a lot of other problems. I I tend to say that If you have debt coming into graduate school that you can pay down, that's even better versus coming in with a lot of debt in your that you're trying to pay off while you're going through graduate school. If you had loans in undergrad, those can be put Those can be deferred while you're in graduate school in the US, especially for domestic students. There are loans that are available for graduate school. Those loans are based off there are going to be limits though. So depending on how much you took out in your undergraduate degree will also make a difference on whether or not, you can get federal loans for graduate school and how much you can take out and and add on to the overarching balance that you may or may not have.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:50]: And then you can also look on campus. Look on campus or off campus for part time work to help you pay for some of those expenses To help you along the way. So, couple of other things just to to wrap up today, and then I'm gonna open it up for questions. This QR code will link you to Our graduate program resource page, which is our graduate blog, our graduate programs blog, on there, you're You're going to find a couple of things. You're gonna find a number of different articles that will talk about graduate student success, paying for graduate school, How do you pick a graduate program? There's lots of lots of resources that are on there. The other thing though that I would encourage you to check out Is we have a podcast that we've been doing now since 2022, August of 2022, And have over a 100 podcast episodes on the Victors in Grad School podcast. Now this is a podcast that is Available no matter where you are and what, what all you have to do is you can go here to this website and listen there or Go to anywhere that a podcast is, is housed and type in victors in grad school, and you'll find it. And on that podcast, you're going to find that we talk all about what it means to find success in grad school.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:22]: I talk to people every week that have gone to graduate school or are currently in graduate school, and they talk about The journey that they're on and what they've had to do to find success in that journey or what they had to do to find success in the earlier journey that Will hopefully help you and give you some things to think about to help you make this transition smoothly into graduate school. This will take you to this next one will take you to our graduate programs page. This lists all of our Graduate programs at the University of Michigan, Flinto. We've got over 40 different graduate programs that are available I admit all levels of education from the PhD all the way to graduate certificates. So depending on what you have an interest in and what you're interested in studying, though, there those are all different things that, that you'll find on this site. So if you take a quick screenshot there. And then if you know exactly what you want and if you know that if you know we have a program or you want more information on any of our programs, you can click on this A QR code and this QR code will take you over to our inquiry form. All you have to do is put in your name, your email, the program that you're interested in, when you want to study And let us know and then you will be able to you'll start getting some emails from us that will Send you information about the program that you have an interest in and then connect you with that program as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:39:56]: Okay. Finally, this is our our, grad office email account. So flint grad office at umich.edu, encourage you to I do encourage you to To reach out to our office at any point, if you've got questions along the way, no matter what they are, just reach out, Ask us questions, and we will be happy to help in any way that we can. Feel free just to email us at [email protected] with any questions that you may have. Be happy to help others in the future, but I really appreciate you being here today and look forward to talking to you in the future. Thanks for being here. The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters and doctorate programs if you are interested in continuing your Education. Whether you're looking for in person or online learning options, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that will meet your needs.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:51]: For more information on any of our Graduate programs, visit umflint.edu/graduateprograms to find out more. Thanks again for spending time with Me as you prepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speaking with you again soon As we embark together on your graduate school journey. If you have any questions or want to reach out, Email me at [email protected].