In this episode, Jerry and Stably engage in a thought-provoking discussion centered on the book Virtue Hoarders: The Case against the Professional Managerial Class by Catherine Liu. The conversation examines the core arguments presented in the book, delving into the societal and economic implications of the professional managerial class (PMC) and its role in perpetuating inequality under the guise of progressive values.

The hosts begin by outlining Liu’s central thesis, which critiques the PMC for leveraging moral and cultural capital to maintain its own privileged status while failing to address systemic inequities. Jerry emphasizes the book’s focus on how this group—comprised of academics, administrators, and other white-collar professionals—positions itself as both morally superior and indispensable. Stably adds that Liu’s argument challenges the assumption that the PMC’s progressive rhetoric translates into meaningful action for broader social good.

Throughout the discussion, Jerry and Stably explore examples of virtue signaling within the PMC, such as performative activism on social media and the commodification of diversity initiatives. They reflect on Liu’s critique of how these actions often serve to reinforce the PMC’s sense of moral authority rather than driving substantive change. Stably notes that the book draws parallels between the PMC’s behavior and historical patterns of class preservation, suggesting that these dynamics are not new but have evolved with contemporary cultural norms.

The hosts also discuss Liu’s perspective on education and its role in perpetuating PMC dominance. Jerry highlights the book’s critique of elite educational institutions as gatekeepers that reinforce class stratification under the pretext of meritocracy. Stably adds that this analysis extends to the PMC’s emphasis on credentialism, which further marginalizes working-class individuals by placing undue value on formal qualifications.

A key theme in the episode is the tension between individual actions and systemic change. Jerry and Stably consider Liu’s assertion that the PMC’s focus on personal lifestyle choices, such as adopting sustainable practices or engaging in charity work, often obscures the need for collective action to dismantle structural inequalities. They debate the practicality of Liu’s proposed solutions, which call for a reorientation of priorities away from self-serving virtue displays and toward solidarity with working-class movements.

In their critique of Liu’s work, the hosts acknowledge that while the book provides a sharp critique of the PMC, it offers limited guidance on how to enact the systemic changes it advocates. Stably questions whether the PMC can realistically be expected to relinquish its privileged position, while Jerry suggests that the book’s polemical tone might alienate some readers despite its compelling arguments.

The episode concludes with a reflection on the broader implications of Liu’s critique. Jerry and Stably discuss how the themes in "Virtue Hoarders" resonate with current debates about class, power, and inequality, particularly in the context of global crises such as the pandemic and climate change. They encourage listeners to critically examine the role of the PMC in shaping societal values and to consider how collective action can address the systemic issues highlighted in the book.