00:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey guys, Anne Ganguzza here. Imagine a voiceover journey where every step is filled with discovery and growth. That's the path I want to work on with you, through nurturing coaching and creative demo production. Let's unveil the true potential of your voice together. It's not just about the destination, it's about the gorgeous journey getting there. Are you ready to take the first step? Connect with me at Anne Ganguzza. 

00:37 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

00:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm here with my lovely, lovely co-host, Lau Lapides. Hi, Lau Lapides, how are you? I'm great, how are you? I am wonderful, wonderful. So, Lau, this week it's funny how many times I usually ask my students for their headshots so that I can help promote their demos that we've just finished and I produced and I like to put them in my YouTube channel, and I like to put a headshot with demo and testimonial. And it amazes me how many voice actors don't really have a good headshot or don't have one. They're like, well, I'm waiting to get my headshots or I haven't thought about getting headshots yet. Or can I just give you this picture, and it's funny because I think headshots are so important for our careers, and so maybe we should talk about why do we need headshots and what goes into a good headshot. 

01:51 - Lau Lapides (Host) I love that, annie. It's such a long time coming too, because I hear so many clients and some of my talent actually most of my talent now are really on the headshot wagon for their websites, for their whatever they're doing. 

02:03 A lot of them are actors on IMDb, on Actors Access, on Casting Networks, you name it. They're kind of all over the moon, and so one of the things we talk about all the time is you have to have great headshots, not only for your marketing, your PR, for your business, but also it's important if you're ever going to do on-camera work, and some of them do really want to do on-camera work authentically. They're excited about doing industrials or training videos or whatever, and so we have to have industry standard, professional demos. I think one of the biggest problems we see, annie, is people going to their mother's brother's first cousin to shoot their headshots, and it's always bad when they do that, because you're doing that to save money and we have to be careful of that. 

02:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think that there's a lot to be said for a really good shot on your iPhone, because you know the cameras are getting better and better. However, there's a lot to be said for going to get a professional headshot, and I am a big believer in that, and anybody who just goes to my website or has ever gone to my website knows how much I utilize my headshots in my website for like every other page and it really helps in my marketing, in my branding, I mean. 

03:19 - Lau Lapides (Host) And we get so tired. Annie, god bless you. I know you and I, who use our shots all the time. I get so tired of the same shots. Yeah, me too. I myself did three headshot shoots last year alone. I did three and I'm like, oh my gosh, it's like I'm an A-lister. No, I'm just a business owner. I'm a business owner that wants to have different feels, looks, appeals for different kinds of things, yeah, that work for different instances, and I'll tell you what. 

03:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So my last headshot right, when we talk about what goes, it may be prepping for your headshot, but what goes into it, because I've been doing this for so long and I have the same headshot photographer that I've had for probably 10 years and she knows me very well and I know her very well. And this last time, when I went, I literally brought at least 10 different changes of clothes and that is kind of excessive. But I knew what I wanted, right, I knew the different types of shots that I wanted and it took me weeks to curate my outfits, but it really worked for me, right, it really worked for me. 

04:18 And I got a variety of different shots and literally we shot probably the entire day, which you know it was not necessarily a cheap thing, but I have gotten so much use and so much footage out of these headshots that it's been really incredible, I mean honestly. And she even did video, and the video helped too, because I've got video that's on my website as well. And me in action me behind the mic, me doing different things. So let's talk about first of all. Tell me why you think it's necessary these days to have a good headshot. 

04:50 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh, 100% airtight, you need a headshot. I would even say that if you're not a performer, I would say that if you are working in banking, if you're a real estate person, if you're an attorney, you need excellent even for your LinkedIn Like that's become a big thing shots for your LinkedIn, but still the shots are not great that you're seeing in corporate America. They just really are not great. So I would suggest that you look up you Google or you go to your coaching team and say I need excellent photographers in my area within this radius that are actor headshot photographers, not business photographers, not wedding photographers, not child photographers, but they understand the sensibility of a professional headshot and I need to have that because I'm going to be putting out my photo everywhere, whether I'm doing it in my own advertising, whether I'm working a project and they want me to send them shots for that project. 

05:47 I mean, there's so many Social media. Put your great shots on social media. There's so many reasons why you have to have it now right. That's one of the biggest mistakes I see happen. Just to save a few bucks is to go to someone who's inexpensive or go to a family member or try to do it yourself. I think it's very difficult because there's a certain sense that a headshot photographer has about lighting you, about your makeup, about knowing what translates on camera. 

06:16 Yeah, I mean it's really everything, and it's the sensibility of making you look like you, not a glamorized version of you, but you on an awesome day. 

06:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, back in the day, like the Sears or JCPenney. 

06:30 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, glamour shots. No that you would just go and they all had the same background. 

06:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I love those, but they were all very much like a similar style, right, and so I think what we need to do as creatives and entrepreneurs is, no matter who you are actually, I think the more you can showcase your personality through your headshots, the better and more effective they will be, and so, for me, when I was picking out my outfits, I was trying to figure out okay, who am I, what aspects of my personality do I want to showcase, and where am I going to use these headshots? And so I knew that I would use a lot of them for my website. 

07:04 I knew that I was going to use a lot of them for social media advertisements about what I do, so of course, I needed props. Right, and props were. I brought every single pair of glasses, by the way, and on my Ann Genguza coaching page you'll see a video shot of me with about 12 different pairs of glasses, because that's just part of my personality, right I? 

07:22 love it. And also I'm hoping that some eyewear company will say oh Ann, please be a brand ambassador for us because I love glasses. But I did. I brought like 10 different pairs of glasses. 

07:32 It was something I literally had to plan when I was going for my shot and I had to make sure that she knew that I had at least eight different looks that I wanted to shoot and that usually they charge based upon how many looks and then they charge on how many digital. 

07:47 Because she gave me all digital shots and because I've known her forever, I'm like just give me all the shots, right, and then I'll pay you to edit the ones that I think I'll use ultimately. And that is a time consuming process, but it was definitely well worth my time and I paid for makeup and hair on the day and I wanted to make sure I had three different hairstyles as well. So that is like okay, when am I going to take the straight hair shot? And then we have to have time to curl my hair and when am I going to take the curled hair headshot? And then what am I going to do? Am I going to keep it all in front of me? Am I going to maybe put half of it back. So there's all sorts of different looks that I was curating for those headshots. 

08:25 - Lau Lapides (Host) Absolutely. I think those are all important points, and you're a pro and you've been doing this for years and years and years, and so you're at a point where you're doing really a pro shot. You're doing a pro shoot. That's really also full body shots, and that's something— I did full body shots as well. I think there's a couple steps that I think the early entry person needs to follow so they don't get overwhelmed, and the first one is finding a photographer and finding someone within a geographical distance that you're willing to travel, and finding someone within your budget. So you have to understand what your budget is and what the market rate will bear and put those people by your coaches so that they can okay it for you, so that you're not going to a charlatan or someone who really doesn't have a gallery of actual headshots, but really more of a wedding photographer. You have to be careful of that right. So it's really selecting the right photographer for you and also knowing am I doing headshots only or am I doing full body shots? 

09:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) as well. 

09:22 - Lau Lapides (Host) And that's another decision to make, which will cost you a lot more money to do that. 

09:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's more of an investment to do that and, for the most part, most professional photographers have a website where you can look at their portfolio and see the type of shots that they've taken before and get a cost estimate. And I will say that this is something that you have to prepare for. You have to actually say I am going to make an investment in my headshots because they are important for my business. 

09:47 - Lau Lapides (Host) Right, they are important and don't avoid it, don't treat it like the plague, don't say oh. 

09:51 I hate it, I don't want to do it. That's not a good start. You want to really discipline your mind to say I need this because I'm reaching out to my audience, I'm reaching out to potential clients and they need to see me, they need to see who I am. So once you select that photographer and you figure out what your budget is and decide am I doing headshot, which is typical, like a bust-up shot, or am I doing a full-body shot? Right, and you can discuss that with your coaching team easily. Now you have to kind of figure out what am I going to bring and I would say for a headshot. 

10:23 What you said was not excessive. I say you bring the 5 to 10 tops. 

10:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It took me three trips from my car to the studio with all of my stuff oh, it takes a lot of trips and shoes, because I knew I was doing full body shots. I had to do shoes. I had boots and then I had jewelry. I brought my entire jewelry like case. I had packed that because I wanted to switch out jewelry as well. Yes, exactly, and ultimately it was a long day. I was exhausted. However, it was amazing. And then I did another photo shoot with the same photographer. That was a different style. It wasn't four headshots for my website or my business. It was Jerry and I, and it was Jerry and I at the beach. I always wanted to do a shot at the pier with Jerry and so I said well, let's make it a full day. And again, I curated outfits and I actually took photos of myself in the outfits and then got people's opinions or looked at myself, because sometimes what you think looks great and when you take a photograph of it, sometimes it doesn't look the same way. 

11:21 And so I highly recommend that, if you can, you can get like a really inexpensive like stand, a really inexpensive set of lights, which I do for a lot of my marketing for brands that I work with for clothing, and your iPhone right, I mean, that's how I do all of my shots for that and a really good editing software that you can have on your phone, which I have all of these things, by the way, linked on anganguzacom in my shop section, because I love them and I feel like for any voice actor it's good. Like the lighting that I have in the studio is important. Lighting is, oh my gosh, almost everything, and you also have to be considerate of where's the studio. Are you going to do it inside or outside? And inside do they do it with natural? 

12:06 I think natural light is the very best lighting, and so if they have a studio that has a lot of windows, that you can be facing the windows, because that's your best light on your face, and so you can practice on yourself and take lots of different pictures and figure out what sort of positions, do I have a good side, do I have a bad side, do I have preferences that you can then communicate to your photographer and also, like I said, curate some outfits and take some pictures of yourself in those outfits to see how they look in a photo, and then maybe you can even send, like, here's a look that I was thinking of. 

12:40 You can even send those to your photographer ahead of time to see what they think. That's just because I have a really good relationship with mine, but it does help a lot to get their professional opinion and she knows where to go with that camera to get the best picture of me, because she probably took, I think, on that day, maybe a thousand shots and I think I ended up with 500 of them, but I'm using maybe 50. So, but still, that's a lot of shots. 

13:06 - Lau Lapides (Host) That's huge. That's a lot of shots, I would say, for folks listening in who are going for their first time, or maybe their second time, but their first time in. It's scary it is. It's a scary. You've got to get comfortable in front of the camera. It can be upsetting, psychologically demanding, to look at yourself and you want that photographer to work with you and show you what they are shooting, as they're shooting it. 

13:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, absolutely, and ask to see those photos as they're shooting them, deal with what you see, and that's something that you've got to do. 

13:42 - Lau Lapides (Host) Whatever you need to do, meditate, drink water, see a therapist, whatever you need to do, do not unload on the photographer. They're just there to shoot you and make you look great. But the psychological hurdles that you're going to need to overcome with dealing with your age, your weight, your style I'm going to be honest. I'm going to be transparent. Mom is going to tell you the truth. It's going to be hard, it's not going to be easy. 

14:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's like looking in a mirror and it's hard. And if you hate yourself in the mirror? 

14:13 - Lau Lapides (Host) Most people do not like it. They do not like the experience, they do not like looking at themselves. So it's just like listening to yourself, right, annie? You have to do it a lot and get used to it and know that that's kind of a necessary part of our industry. I would say start out simple, like, just start out with doing a headshot, having some great tops, layer it, bring in some jackets, some sweaters, right? Nothing busy. Don't make sure you don't have words, sequins, shiny things on your clothes. See what I'm wearing today. It's awesome, but not great for a headshot, because it's too busy looking, unless it's what we call a personality shot. Yes, so a personality shot is not a standard headshot. It is different. 

14:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's what I'm going to talk about. I think the personality shot almost always sometimes looks better. 

14:59 - Intro (Announcement) I mean there's a place for each right. 

15:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, the personality shot is like what is it that makes you you? What is it that makes you laugh? What is it that you're passionate about? Like, do you have a hobby that you're passionate about? I mean outside of voiceover. Right, for me it was, you know. I'm just trying to think what I did. I mean because I loved. Well, I did the whole family shot by the ocean, because we love the ocean. I loved horses. 

15:20 So you know what I mean. I have different aspects. I have my cowboy boots. I always do a business shot. 

15:26 - Lau Lapides (Host) I always do a corporate shot right. There's a mom shot. There's different roles you're thinking about, of what you give off, what you play, whether you're an actor or you're not an actor, like what's your perception of what you give off to the world, and you want to match that for sure. So, starting with the headshot, I think is great, annie, to just start sort of simply like that and thinking about how do I wear my, how do I want to wear my hair? Do I like it down? Do I? 

15:49 - Intro (Announcement) like it up. 

15:50 - Lau Lapides (Host) How do I like my makeup? You know, having that makeup artist in hair is so important, because you translate so differently on camera than you do in real life. 

15:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now, even for, let's say, guys who are not necessarily wearing makeup, or is that something that they should consider when taking headshots? 

16:07 - Lau Lapides (Host) No, honestly, I don't recommend men to have makeup. I just say listen, have a good powder on hand, have some great chapstick. 

16:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, because you don't want the shine. 

16:15 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, they can do it in. 

16:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Photoshop. I will say something about glasses, because you have to be careful about the angle. So, like right now, you can see as I look up towards the light. You can see the reflection in my glasses. Right, right. So the photographer needs to know the angle right of the lighting that they have in there and that it's not reflecting off the glasses. There are a lot of times you can get frames without any lenses and sometimes this is the best solution Actually the photographer Fig. 

16:42 - Lau Lapides (Host) Good, See, this is the difference, you guys Listen up, Between a wedding photographer, a child photographer and an actor photographer. One of my photographers was so pro, he gave me his own glasses, his props, and he popped out the lenses and he said here you go. And I said, really, you don't want the light. He's like no, no, I don't want any reflection, I just need the rims, Because they have to try to get rid of it in the end. 

17:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And for me, I need my glasses. I cannot literally read or see without them, and so they are prescription and, the funny thing is, Lau. If you look really closely, you're going to see one of my eyes is bigger than the other, and that's because one of my eyes is much worse than the other and my lens is thicker, so it's magnifying my eye. Now for me. 

17:24 - Lau Lapides (Host) I thought you were going to say you have a fake glass eye and you're going to plop it out For me. I was like, oh my God, I didn't know that. 

17:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) For me, I call my other eye the droopy eye because it looks like it's drooping, like this one looks like it's drooping and now that I've just pointed it out for everybody. But when I do my Teachable Moments videos, I will have days when I'm tired right and my one eye really droops more, and also the angle of the camera has a lot to do with it. So if I'm looking like this, you're not going to notice that this eye is bigger, but if I look this way, you're going to notice this eye is much bigger than this eye. That's fun. 

17:53 So it is a thing, and it's only because the lens is thicker, the magnification is thicker, and you know your angles too. 

17:59 That's how much I've been on camera and you know you are very aware and that's something you can communicate to your photographer. But even If they're good, they're going to make you look good. They know the angle, they know where to come, they know where to place you within the light. They're going to make you feel good about yourself. So, if you can find Now, I have been all different weights, I've felt all different ways about myself and I've needed headshots, and so she has gone through my lifetime with me. I feel the last 10 years she's been with me through heavier times, thinner times, and always that affects how I feel about myself and how I feel about myself in front of the camera, and she has always. I've trusted her with my life because she's always been able to make me look good or feel good about myself. That, to me, is priceless right, that she is worth every penny because she knows me and she knows how to take a good picture of me. 

18:50 - Lau Lapides (Host) So you know, Annie, what you're saying, I think, is so treasurable, because and you may only meet this person once and not see them again or not see them for a long time but how that photography team makes you feel about yourself is so important. You don't want them to be overly critical, you don't want them to be rushing, rushing, rushing, rushing. You don't want that factory approach, you want a personalized approach. So I would say listen, talk to them first. Get a quick Zoom meet, get a quick in-person meet, if you can. 

19:20 - Intro (Announcement) Sure, absolutely To get engaged. 

19:22 - Lau Lapides (Host) Do they want to spend a little time with you? Are they going to rush you in and out of the door and not care which? A lot of photographers like that too. Right, Annie, you've met them here's the thing right. 

19:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think there's a special skill in smiling right, in smiling for a camera, right, my husband for the life of him. Like every time I tell him to smile, he's like and it's like, really fake. Yeah, it's really fake. Like so many people don't understand how to smile for the camera. Now, it is not a natural thing. I think most people just feel like they have to put on this particular look. 

19:51 Now a good photographer and or their assistants are going to be able to make you smile, a natural smile, Because sometimes they'll just say, okay, smile, and you'll be like you know, and that you're not going to like any of your photos because it's not real, so maybe they can tell you a joke and then take multiple pictures while you're laughing Right, and that's usually the good, almost candid shots that I think are always like the award-winning headshots, when you're just like you're like right in the middle of a natural emotion. 

20:19 - Lau Lapides (Host) Great minds think alike. That conversation, you know this is so funny. There's so much bridge into what we do as voiceover talent. It's like are you authentically real, Are? You talking to the photographer as a person. Are you having conversations, are you? 

20:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) talking about life. Can I just say this? This is absolutely parallel to when we tell people to smile when they're reading copy. Right, there's a difference between smiling like hi, I'm Ann and I'm going to read this copy with this fake smile Notice how I have a fake smile and it's a fake smile and it doesn't sound good because my mouth is like in a position that is not making me sound. 

20:53 - Lau Lapides (Host) I can see it in your eyes too, your eyes. 

20:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly For me. I'm happy and bubbly anyway, so I can just think a smile. I don't always have to form my mouth in a smile, but if I tell some people to smile, it'll make them sound a little less serious. So notice how, if I'm just like oh my God, like Lau, you just made me laugh, right, that's such a better smile. So what we try to tell you in voiceover when we're saying I want you to smile, I want to hear that smile in the copy. I don't want to hear a fake smile, just as in photography. We don't want to see a fake smile. We want to see a real smile. We want to see real emotion. We want your personality, your heart to be shown and your happiness and your joy. 

21:29 - Lau Lapides (Host) And I would use hacks like bring in a prop or have like I have my coffee in my hand right now, because my coffee is kind of like connected to me by the hip you know, I always have a water or a coffee in my hand. 

21:40 It just makes me feel like a person. It makes me feel like I'm living life. It's just me, right? But what makes you feel that way? Maybe you'll have a little teddy bear in your hand, or you have a little stress squeezer. We're not going to see it on camera, yeah, just like we don't see it in your voiceover, but maybe I need that so that I can make myself laugh or talk to the photographer about you know, I'm kind of nervous, I'm kind of stressed. 

22:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) A lot of people are, and a good photographer will be able to like either make you laugh or get you to be more natural or more relaxed and comfortable. I can't how many times did we go for those school photos? 

22:16 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh God, I was thinking about school photos. I can't believe you said that, annie. Do you remember the days where we had the little clip-on animals for our collars. 

22:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They were a thing. 

22:25 - Lau Lapides (Host) So, like my fourth grade shot, I have a clip-on raccoon. It was like yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we're still kind of doing that when we get in front of a camera. We're still kind of like deer in the headlights. You have to be careful about that. 

22:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I would say even warm up, like my husband, who has the best smile ever when he gets in front of the camera. And, by the way, I will tell you my husband, I got him. He's now hired to work alongside me with one of my brands as an influencer. He's hysterical, he's really great on camera. But whenever I say when he wants to pose to do photos, right, I mean they're like okay, now smile and he'll go and it'll be like the most stiff. I'm like no. 

23:02 - Intro (Announcement) Jerry, just like say something. 

23:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Let me just tell you a joke, Jerry oh my God. Remember the other day when we did this, and then I'll get him in the middle of a smile and it completely changes the photo. Yeah, so it's something that how many times can we do a selfie? Right, we can take selfies, we can practice. You can see what you look like when you fake smile. So really, just practice as well, and it's not a bad idea to get yourself a tripod and a remote control little. 

23:30 Blippi, that works via Bluetooth with your iPhone or Android so that you can click a picture when you're standing there right and do a pose and then just do multiple pictures and figure out. Oh okay, I like myself when I'm angled like this or when I smile, I can't lift my head up too high, or if I put my chin down just a little bit, right, you can really learn what works for you and I think there's some valuable information in spending 20 bucks and getting that tripod and getting that little clicker, which I think costs $20, if not less, and connecting up via Bluetooth with your phone and, boom, taking the picture, taking multiple pictures and getting lighting, by the way, which won't cost you more than I'm going to say. The lighting that I have won't cost you more than a hundred bucks. 

24:12 - Lau Lapides (Host) Put those on tripods, you could even get just a ring light. 

24:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Just get a ring light right, I don't love ring lights because I have glasses and I think the ring lights show like they're very obvious. So I have lighting, like I have in my studio, which are like kind of the soft pillowy LED lights that have the big what do they call those? The big puffy like white coverings over them. 

24:33 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, they're like a soft box kind of lighting. Yeah, that's it. 

24:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I have a soft box, I have two soft box and I make sure that I'm standing in front of a window, because then you have the three areas of light which and I make sure that I'm standing in front of a window because then you have the three areas of light, which is critical for good lighting. 

24:46 - Lau Lapides (Host) Now I get your secret, Annie. Now I know why you look like you're 18. That's your secret. It's good lighting. Why does she look like she's 18? 

24:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What is going on with her lighting? Yeah, Awesome. By the way, links. I'll link that in the show notes. 

24:57 - Lau Lapides (Host) Love it Eyelines. That's something that know about on-camera actors. Vo talent don't know about that. It's important for you for when you do your photo shoot and that means where my eyes are focused. So in a headshot shoot, they are focused directly at the camera. But the caveat is especially for VO talent, who you're showcasing your business as well. I would suggest you bring to the studio your microphone, your headphones, because they're easy to throw in a bag, you don't have to worry about it and take some of those shots. 

25:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Take a cable too. Don't forget the cable, because if you take a photo without the microphone, with a cable, it's very obvious to all of us. 

25:37 - Lau Lapides (Host) Unless you're a podcaster and you're sitting down, so that's up to you. But yes, take a cable and be in action, and you may not be looking at the camera. You may be looking at your script, you may be in an action shot, which is really great, but your eyeline is going to give away. Are you directly involved in what you're doing or are you not involved with what you're doing? A headshot for an actor should be direct address to the camera, but for a voiceover talent, you'll have that, but then you'll have. You know, maybe I'm talking, maybe I'm doing this, maybe I'm doing that, and that's kind of cool for people to see you in action you know, Good photographer will be able to tell you where to look. 

26:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And what's interesting is, remember we talked about my droopy eye. Okay, so because of my droopy eye, which became so much more noticeable as I needed a thicker lens, my photographer, she's like okay, normally you are looking right in the camera, but I think I need you to look above the camera slightly because you've got that eye and I'm like yeah, so you'll notice. Right now I'm looking at the camera, laura, right? 

26:35 - Lau Lapides (Host) I never knew this. This is news to me. 

26:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Watch me, now I'm looking at the camera Now I'm going to look slightly above the camera, and it makes a difference, right? Oh my God, that's crazy. Right, it makes a big difference See. 

26:45 - Lau Lapides (Host) I have known you for how long? A couple years. 

26:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I never knew that. See, now everybody's going to be looking at my eye. They're going to say, oh, droopy eye, no no, it's because it's a choice. 

27:04 - Lau Lapides (Host) It's all your choice. Oh, I love it. Talk about strategy. 

27:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And guys, I mean here's the deal. Like I so much put myself in front of the camera every day when I was young and I had a very severe case of lazy eye where I was almost blind, so my eye was in the corner, this bad eye, the one eye that looks bigger, it was very much in the corner, and when I get tired, right still, my good eye does all the work, even with glasses. Oh, how interesting, because it's been trained since the year three yeah, the year three of my life, since I've worn glasses since I was three and so even with glasses, my good eye does all the work. 

27:36 So when I get tired this eye, it will tend to kind of go a little bit in the corner, and I notice it all the time. A little bit in the corner and I notice it all the time. I mean, I used to get made fun of it and so you may think I'm completely confident in front of the camera. But I know, like I know okay, my eye will tend to drift if I'm tired or I might have to like really like pay attention to look a little brighter. That's right, but it's good to know yourself. 

27:57 It's good to photograph yourself sake of vanity, but for the sake of knowing you and feeling good about yourself in front of the camera. That, I think, has done wonders for me over the years, because before I did a bunch of on camera teachable moments and those sorts of things, stuff that I put out in social media I wasn't on camera a lot and it was something that I had to practice, that to get much better at. And talking to the camera is something that is important for your headshots. Addressing the camera and it's kind of like really thinking about hi guys, you know I'm looking at the camera and like you're really speaking to somebody, just like we do behind the mic. Right, we think about speaking to someone as we're behind the mic. So think about speaking to someone behind the camera and that will engage your face, it will engage your personality, it will engage your heart and it will help you take a better photo. I am convinced of that. 

28:48 - Lau Lapides (Host) God, what a great convo this is. I wish I had this convo for myself 30 years ago. One more thing I want to make mention. This is great how you figured out how to like cheat all the insecurities and all that stuff. 

29:02 But I do want to say, I do want to say to all the folks that are like, yeah, I don't know how to do that, or I don't know if I'd get over it, or I have this or I have that, we love imperfection. Yeah, we love it. In fact, we look for it, we hire it and we work it. So if you have anything that you consider to be outside of a norm or outside of a convention, whether whatever it's a lazy eye or whether it's this or that, don't feel the need to hide it, don't feel the need to put it aside, shout it from the rooftops. 

29:32 Now we're actually looking for people I have droopy eye who have all these so-called imperfections right which are real person stuff. 

29:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that can be a really great thing it is and hopefully that's relatable to some. I mean, maybe not everybody has droopy eye, but there's so many people are like you're always so together. 

29:52 - Lau Lapides (Host) I'm like, really I got a droopy eye. 

29:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know I try to be but I got a droopy eye, but that's okay. Yeah, but they don't care, they don't care, they're attached to it. Here's my imperfections, guys. I mean I don't want to. I don't want to be a picture of something that I can't ever achieve. That kind of thing you don't want. A goal that you can't ever achieve. 

30:09 That's a good way of putting it Like let that photograph, let that headshot bring out the best in you, showcase the best in you, because every one of us has a beautiful, beautiful quality, every one of us is beautiful. And have that confidence, like remember you were talking about that? 

30:23 Hollywood had a term for it Ugly beautiful people, the beautiful ugly and I don't even think I think everybody's beautiful, I don't even like the word ugly. I think everybody's beautiful. They all have a beautiful quality, everybody has a gorgeous voice. They have a unique quality that connects us together as human beings and connects our hearts together. And so, guys, you are beautiful and you are absolutely a face for photography and a face for a headshot and a face for VO, absolutely. 

30:49 - Lau Lapides (Host) And there's many companies out there that really exploit that. They really celebrate that. I can think of an amazing agency in New York Funny Face Talent, real person talent. There's probably a bunch of them out there that they want you to think, oh, I have a weird face or I'm not beautiful looking. Oh well, we're going to get you a lot of work because a lot of people relate to you. Right, there was an actor, annie, who was this actor. He was very big In the early 2000s, he was a heavyset guy and he had this eye condition where his eyes fluttered up and down. 

31:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I'm not sure. 

31:26 - Intro (Announcement) And you saw him in a lot. 

31:27 - Lau Lapides (Host) He was a regular on X-Files, huh, and he was a fantastic actor and his eyes fluttered up and down. It was amazing to watch him work in different roles and how he utilized that condition to go right into his roles and to sort of infuse the energy in his role. Some of his roles were scary. Some of his roles were demonous. Some of his roles were good. Some of his roles were like fatherly, but he always used it in his favor. He never tried to hide it. 

31:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I thought that was it. I mean, that was cool. Be out there and be confident, guys. 

32:02 - Lau Lapides (Host) Just technically. One more thing I want to throw in, and that is when someone shoots you, a professional headshot photographer should be giving you everything they shoot. They'll go ahead and get rid of all the shots that are like the in-between shots, the blurry shots, the shots that really like you're not in position but they really like Annie was saying she's kept 500 shots, maybe they did 1,000 shots. 

32:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I keep them. 

32:30 - Lau Lapides (Host) I can do a little cropping myself. Yeah, one of the mistakes, annie, I see people make is they'll show me what their shoot looks like and I'll see watermark on everything. And I say be careful of that, because when they shoot you now it's changed they used to own those, they no longer own those. So when they shoot you and you get 200, 300 of your best shots, those are yours, those should be yours. Now, if they're going to edit you and you're going to pay to have them edit which a lot of people do then they're going to charge money for that, as they should at their time. But otherwise, those are your shots and you should be able to keep those shots Absolutely. 

33:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Your property and they should be up in color. You don't do black and white anymore. Guys. Make sure you get all the shots if you want them, and they are yours. All right, excellent conversation, La. I loved it. Guys, I'm going to give a great big shout out to IPDTL. You too, can connect and share like bosses, and find out more at IPDTLcom. Have an amazing week, bosses, and go get your headshots, and we'll see you next week. Bye. 

33:28 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

 

Anne Ganguzza (00:00.93) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza and I am here with Tom Dheere for the Real Boss series. Hey Tom, how are ya?

Tom Dheere (00:10.978) Hello Anne, how are you doing?

Anne Ganguzza (00:14.208) You know, Tom, I am a little under the weather today. So, yeah, and you know, I'm so like attuned to, you know, how I sound in the booth and I'm a little bit nasal. And if I'm not 100%, I can't record, Tom. So, perfect time to talk to the bosses about what do you do when you can't record auditions or you can't record for your clients? I mean, there's lots of stuff you can do, I think, to...

Tom Dheere (00:17.472) Yeah. Yeah, I could hear that.

Anne Ganguzza (00:43.246) move your business ahead, so let's discuss.

Tom Dheere (00:47.971) Okay, well, there's a number of things that you wanna keep in mind first, which is how you sound in your head doesn't necessarily sound like what you sound like when you listen to the playback on your audio. Oh, no, I did notice, it's a stitch off, but also, yeah.

Anne Ganguzza (00:56.173) You

Anne Ganguzza (01:00.717) But you noticed, but you noticed, Tom. So you noticed I sounded not like myself, yeah. Right? And even a stitch off, can't do, because you can hear a little bit of that, Mm-hmm, yep. Yeah?

Tom Dheere (01:13.568) Yeah, well, you've also known each other for years. We talk all the time. So like, you know, you would, you'd be able to pick up if I wasn't feeling well either. So, so being in tune with your, with your, with your body and all that stuff, and then reconciling that with the reality of what do you sound like from on the outside? Because in your, in your skull, there's all these resonating chambers, you know, in your skull, in your turbinates. and what you hear when you talk doesn't

Anne Ganguzza (01:34.988) Yes.

Tom Dheere (01:43.166) sound like what other people hear who are outside of those resonating chambers. So you gotta give yourself a little bit of latitude and grace on that part.

Anne Ganguzza (01:52.6) Yeah. You have to have a benchmark, I think. And you know, Tom, that's so interesting that you bring that up because it's kind of when we talk about when people record and then they listen back and they say, ew, I don't like that. And then they re-record 100 times over. It's because what they hear is not what other people hear. And so you have to be familiar enough and know yourself enough so that you can create a benchmark for when your voice is sounding pristine. And also when you're acting and you're not sounding like you're

Tom Dheere (02:13.719) Mm-hmm.

Tom Dheere (02:17.206) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (02:21.483) reading something or sounding kind of fake. And so yeah, that ear takes a lot of time to develop. But I will definitely tell you that, yeah, I can tell that my voice is not at its best right now. And so that is one of those things that there are so many things that we can do, probably all the things that you guys don't necessarily want to do, but they're all the things that really help us to move forward and market our businesses.

Tom Dheere (02:24.897) Right.

Tom Dheere (02:48.705) Right. So I always recommend the first thing you do is find out what projects you have do, what are the deadlines and what's the dynamic of the relationship with each of those clients. I mean, we all try to get our projects done as quickly as possible. So we meet our deadline, you know, the old under promise over deliver thing. And that also just gives you that much more time to do other things and that much more quality of head space to be like, good, I did that. Now I can look at the

the next project or audition or whatever. like, also you want to look at the genre of voiceover that you're doing. Like for example, a 15 second commercial takes 15, you know, takes 15 seconds to record. You're doing multiple takes. So in short form stuff like that where you can just record the whole thing over and if there's a retake of a change of a sentence or a word, you can just do the whole thing over again because it takes so little time.

Anne Ganguzza (03:18.273) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (03:35.169) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (03:45.185) Right, exactly.

Tom Dheere (03:46.271) If it's something long form like an e-learning module or an audio book, it's not good if you sound different within a chapter or within a module. Slounding a stitch different from module to module or from chapter to chapter in an audio book isn't the worst thing in the world. It's obviously not ideal, but you can get away with that. But what you want to do is check your lines of communication.

Anne Ganguzza (03:53.441) Yeah, it's hard to match. Yeah.

Tom Dheere (04:15.52) with your clients. Now, the second you get a sniffle, you don't send a newsletter to everybody. Don't do that.

Anne Ganguzza (04:22.861) No, but I got a job. I got a job this week and I had to send an email right away and say, look, I am fighting this cold and I'm very nasal right now. Can the client wait, you know, a couple of days? you know, guys, bosses out there, people are very understanding. We're all human. There is this, you know, wretched thing that's going around this cold.

And so I think most people are understanding if they can be, and especially if you've got clients who depend on you and know you and have worked with you before. I don't think it's gonna kill your career if you tell them that you have a sniffle.

Tom Dheere (04:58.715) There's only a handful of genres where the deadlines are so tight and so important like promo, for example. Commercials have a little more latitude because once you record the audio, they still have to either drop it into the existing video or animation, or they still need to create the video or animation that your voiceover will get applied to. So sometimes there's like weeks, you know, because at worst they can take your takes and drop them in there.

Anne Ganguzza (05:06.784) Mm-hmm.

Tom Dheere (05:28.66) or they can use a scratch or you can say, okay, this is a scratch track. This is me with a cold. And next week when I feel better, right. Well, there's also, there's also that too, but you gotta be careful about that because if you, if you sound like that in the audition and you book it and then you feel better and then you have to record it, you may not sound the same either, you know, so be, so be aware of, deadlines and genres and stuff like that. But there may come points where you actually just need to

Anne Ganguzza (05:30.253) Yeah, You can say, if you're looking for that raspy, sexy voice, I've got it right now. I'm happy to record that for you. Yeah, if you have a retake. Exactly. Exactly.

Tom Dheere (05:58.473) suck it up because you just have to do it.

Anne Ganguzza (06:01.015) Well, that's the thing, Tom. I mean, we are human. mean, sometimes we get sick. And the first thing I do when I get sick, I immediately, like if I can, I immediately take off. I immediately just book out and I talk to my clients if I have any outstanding jobs and I let them know what's happening. And then ultimately, I'm like in bed. I'm trying to make sure.

that I can get over this as soon as possible. I don't try to tough it out. mean, back in the day, I don't know, I used to try to tough it out and, no, I can handle this. But in reality, because our vocal instrument is such an intrinsic part of who we are in our product, I am bent on getting healthy as soon as possible. So I'm taking all the meds, I'm going to bed, I'm getting my rest, and I am not pushing myself so that I can get healthy quicker so that I can start working again.

Tom Dheere (06:24.865) Mm-hmm.

Tom Dheere (06:52.107) Right. And let's let's talk about things you can do. Rest is number one. Vocal rest as well as bed rest, hydration, hydration, hydration. You know, whether you're no matter how you're feeling as a voice actor, should you must always be hydrating. I have I have coconut water every single morning before I sit down. Also, because like, there you go. I got a glass. Mm

Anne Ganguzza (06:56.354) Yes.

Mm-hmm.

isn't that the truth? Yeah.

Anne Ganguzza (07:13.227) I have my big old water bottle. Three of them a day. Three of them a day.

Tom Dheere (07:18.402) I have a glass of water at my side every day and then I have coconut water in the morning because also in the middle of overnight, you're not hydrating because you're sleeping. I do that as well because like I'm at my desk in the booth, 730, pretty much every morning hitting the ground running with auditions. And, you know, I want to make sure I am as loosened up and warmed up as possible.

Anne Ganguzza (07:25.185) Yeah, exactly.

Anne Ganguzza (07:39.054) Well, also I want to say that during this time of the year when it's colder out and you have heat on, the heat will also dry you out incredibly. And so if you have a humidifier or you have like a mask or a face mask that you know, that can put steam up into your face or sometimes I just put my face into the dishwasher after it's finished running and then the steam comes up. So take a hot shower, that steam will really help to moisten.

Tom Dheere (07:49.343) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (08:08.779) moisten things and try to be careful when you're coughing or you know using your voice because it can it can do damage to your vocal cords and you don't want that for sure.

Tom Dheere (08:16.546) I mean, it's also sounds cliche, but getting as much vitamin C in you as possible. lots of juices, lots of citrus and things like that. That always helps to keep your protein.

Anne Ganguzza (08:22.87) Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. And going outside, even though it's freezing cold, sometimes going outside because of the moisture in the air can, for just a little bit, I mean dressed up warmly of course, but for just a little bit can help you because a lot of times the internal air, as I mentioned, circulating air in your house can be very drying.

Tom Dheere (08:33.526) Mm-hmm.

Tom Dheere (08:44.867) Absolutely. mean, I'm sure our bosses have other secrets and remedies and other ways of doing it. So we would obviously love to hear your suggestions and comments as well.

Anne Ganguzza (08:55.714) Well, I will openly blame my husband. I love you, Jerry. Who had the flu and I ran around with a can of Lysol and saying, I'm not gonna get sick, I won't get sick. And I didn't get the flu, but I did get this cold. So unfortunately his turned into bronchitis, which again, it turned a little more serious. But you know, and I'm just kind of thankful that I'm getting over this cold. However, I did have to put some clients on notice.

Tom Dheere (09:11.65) Hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (09:23.789) And then I started thinking about all the other things that needed to be done, right, for my business so that I could continue as I was feeling better, right, and I couldn't rest 24 hours a day. But I had some time that I could go attend to some marketing skills, attend to some organization skills on my desktop, attend to some courses that I'm in the middle of taking, and workshops and practicing. And so there's a lot of things, guys, that you can do.

when you are not feeling well to still continue to move your business forward.

Tom Dheere (09:56.865) And that reminds me of something. This is something I tell all of my students, whether you're ill or whether you're healthy, you want to learn to listen to your body and listen to your brain and listen to your heart and see what they tell you. And the practical application of that is figure out the times of day that you are vocally at your best.

Anne Ganguzza (10:08.151) Mmm.

Anne Ganguzza (10:21.921) Yeah.

Tom Dheere (10:23.54) and when you're not, there are some people who I'm very fortunate within 15 minutes of me waking up, I can be in the booth and busting out auditions and bookings. I'm very lucky. Some people don't have that. Sometimes they need hours to hydrate and feed themselves and get their protein and their energy up before they're ready to get in the booth and do their thing. so check out when you're vocally at your best and when you're not and try to wrap your

day around that when it comes to auditioning and booking stuff. But the other thing is you also want to gauge when you are creatively at your best throughout the day. Now, that could also go hand in hand with vocally at your best because you want to be creative to make strong acting choices when you're doing your auditionings and your bookings. But what I'm talking specifically about is stuff like social media, blogging,

Anne Ganguzza (11:14.327) Sure.

Anne Ganguzza (11:19.725) Mm.

Tom Dheere (11:21.282) crafting newsletters, crafting cold emails or follow-up emails. You're gonna be at different creative levels throughout the day, just like you're gonna be at different, you know, vocal healthy and just overall physically healthy and energy level throughout your day. So keep an eye out for when you're coming up with really good ideas and keep an eye out on when you're really struggling to just write, you know, just write a couple of sentences that you're gonna post on.

Anne Ganguzza (11:31.703) Sure.

Anne Ganguzza (11:49.038) Sure. Well, and let me interject. Yeah, let me interject that not only it's good to know like when your creative times are, but it's also you don't have to worry so much about like, I'm going to write an email and then send it out because there are schedulers and there are times when it's good for people to receive your, you know, your content that you're creating or those emails. And so the nice thing is that we can always schedule out the things that we're doing when we're the most creative. And so I

Tom Dheere (11:50.966) some social media platform.

Tom Dheere (12:09.698) Mm-hmm.

Tom Dheere (12:16.961) That's it.

Anne Ganguzza (12:17.833) I'm very creative in the morning when I get up. And so I can go ahead and craft like 20 emails and then I can schedule them out for later. So that's a good time for me to write in the morning and also write blogs. I have certain days that I create content on video. So that's typically in the afternoon and I have to schedule in, well, when am I gonna do the hair and makeup?

because I need to be camera ready. So that's a time as well. And if I'm not feeling well, maybe, actually this week I did a whole series on what do I do when I'm sick? You know, for my video shorts. And so I still, the nice thing was is that I was able to, I was feeling well enough that I could at least get a little dressed up.

and feel a little more human than I was feeling earlier in the week. So it was a good time. I was able to keep on that video schedule, but sometimes you just have to cancel that and then work on other things. And I also had some courses that I was taking where I'm trying to improve my skills in other genres. And so I went ahead and watched videos. I went ahead and practiced, you know, I practiced scripts and it was something that I didn't have to actually audition for. So it was fine that I could practice.

And it really worked out well for me to get all those things done that I had on my other list of things to do, which I kept putting off because I kept thinking, well, other things are more important. So it was great for me to catch up on all the things on my list of things to do for improving my own self. And so it's funny because a lot of times I'm like, let's take care of my clients first, which is where I think most of your business needs to be.

but then also self-improvement, right? Self-improvement. Watching those videos, watching those workouts, learning from other people, joining other groups and mastermind groups and that sort of thing, which are the things that I usually myself, because I'm so busy doing all my other things, I tend to put aside. So I was able to really address all those things on my list, which was really wonderful.

Tom Dheere (14:24.762) Actually, I'm so glad you said that because that complements perfectly what with what I said So find out when you're vocally at your best find out when you are creatively at your best and then find out when you are neither vocally nor creatively at your best and those are the times when you balance your checkbook pay your bills

Anne Ganguzza (14:43.853) Yes, yes, exactly.

Tom Dheere (14:46.377) generate and reconcile your invoices, do the required and, you know, not so much fun, but extremely important administrative clerical things to do. And also that's also the times exactly what you were just talking about is the self-improvement times to watch videos or learn practice copy, you know, but without having to worry about what you sound like.

Anne Ganguzza (14:49.259) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (14:55.937) Yeah? Yeah.

Tom Dheere (15:09.856) you know, in a finished output, it's more about what's my intent, what are my choices, you know, maybe play back to it and listen to the intent and the choices and the emotional arc of whatever without actually necessarily keep taking stock in the vocal quality because you're not vocally at your best at that given time.

Anne Ganguzza (15:26.541) And also too, what's cool is that creative refresh. You I always talk about like, I like to watch good movies. I like to watch good movies because it gives me inspiration and motivation. And a lot of times that helps me with my career. It helps me with my voiceover. So if I'm not feeling, I'm really feeling kind of bad, I can like sit on the couch with a blanket and watch Netflix and watch a good movie and be creatively inspired.

Tom Dheere (15:50.785) Now that's a good, that's a really good point. you know, bosses remember we are actors, we are performers. We need to see what other actors and performers are doing and how they're doing it because we all know casting trends change all the time, but so do performance trends change over time. And watching what the, you know, one of the top Netflix

Anne Ganguzza (16:05.527) Yeah.

Tom Dheere (16:17.29) ranked shows are, like last night we watched American Primeval, which is some pretty crazy old west stuff, but there's some just top notch acting from actors I've never even heard of before. But to be able to take that in and listen to their nuance and their subtlety, or when they're being huge and melodramatic and is it part of the character, right?

Anne Ganguzza (16:17.495) Sure.

Anne Ganguzza (16:21.311) Mmm.

Anne Ganguzza (16:37.538) Yeah, watched, yeah, I watched Emelia Perez. And so, which was a really great movie, by the way. And it like, it shocked me and surprised me. It was great. It really was, it really was a good movie. And then I watched, my gosh, now I'm trying to remember the name of it, but it was the series with, my goodness, Sophia, my God, what is the name of it? Now I'm gonna have to like, Tom, I'm gonna have to Google it.

Tom Dheere (16:42.004) okay.

Tom Dheere (17:03.351) Ha ha.

Anne Ganguzza (17:03.553) But anyways, I started that series because I'd heard a lot of things about how great it was. And it was really nice because it got me inspired in terms of seeing the world in a different way and listening to actors do their thing and really become inspired by that.

Tom Dheere (17:18.846) Mm-hmm. Yeah, and you should, bosses, take notes. Have a notepad or have your phone or tablet or laptop with you if you're, you know, if you're in that, okay, I'm not feeling too well. I can't really do any auditions right now. I'm caught up on my invoicing. Let's do a little character study. Let's do a little, you know, acting genre study. And, you know, if you're in anime, if you want to get into anime, it's a great excuse to watch the latest anime show, which you...

Anne Ganguzza (17:32.225) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (17:46.022) yeah, absolutely.

Tom Dheere (17:47.297) You may be watching anyway, but the pair of eyes and ears that you have change when you are, know, Griselda, okay. Yeah. So you have this one set of eyes and ears on when you're watching or listening to something to enjoy it. And then you have a different set of eyes and ears when you are listening or watching something to learn from it. You know, so, you know, watch that, you know, watch that

Anne Ganguzza (17:53.442) Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It was Griselda, by the way. I just looked at, yeah, Griselda, yeah, really good series, yeah. She's wonderful.

Anne Ganguzza (18:08.705) Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Tom Dheere (18:15.37) Classic Akira movie or ninja scroll or something like that classic anime But but don't don't do it just to be entertained by it like listen to the acting choices and how do the acting choices affect the animation and how do the animation affect the acting choices and and vice versa you can learn a lot if you are because you you a lot of people come into voice over because they're a fan of

Anne Ganguzza (18:17.653) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (18:27.083) Sure, absolutely.

Tom Dheere (18:40.193) the genres that they want to be in, cartoons or video games or whatnot. But it's also critical that you are a student of the industry and the genres as well. And that requires a different, it's a different discipline when you're taking in that kind of stuff. So if you are feeling under the weather, put your school cap on and pull up at your school desk and learn and take notes as if you were gonna be taking a quiz.

Anne Ganguzza (18:41.931) Yeah? Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (18:46.221) Yeah.

Anne Ganguzza (18:54.615) Yeah.

Anne Ganguzza (19:00.959) Yeah.

And here's old school, watch commercials. If that's the genre you wanna work in, watch commercials, don't fast forward. And I've said that multiple times, especially current commercials, because then you're gonna really be aware of the current trends, what's happening, what's out there. And especially now in the new year, right, we have a change, obviously.

in our administration. And so there's going to be maybe trends and changes that will happen in advertising and in commercials and in the genres that we're going to be working. So really keep your eyes and your ears peeled out for that. Do some research. Do some Google on companies and look at how they're advertising to people. That can be a really great education when you're not feeling well.

Tom Dheere (19:42.496) Mm-hmm.

Tom Dheere (19:50.029) Yeah, there's a difference between a commercial that you see on TV and what you hear on the radio and what you see in streaming and what you hear in between podcast episodes and Pandora and Spotify. These are, even though they're all technically the same thing, they're commercial voice actors, you know, different lengths.

Anne Ganguzza (19:56.578) Yeah.

Digital,

Anne Ganguzza (20:10.401) Different lengths, different styles. Mm-hmm, yep. Exactly. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Tom Dheere (20:13.494) different audiences, different formats based on the milieu or the medium of whether it's a TV commercial or a radio spot or a streaming. listen to those and again, take notes, notice the difference. Like radio spots, for example, we talk a lot faster. You know, so, know, just things like that.

Anne Ganguzza (20:31.246) Yeah, Absolutely, absolutely. And you carry more of the story because there's no visual there, right? And so, exactly. And I'm always telling my students, because a lot of students, they're like, so what is the difference between this genre and this genre? Especially when we're talking about nuanced genres like corporate. Corporate explainers and corporate narration. What's the difference between corporate narration and a commercial? Well, you've got longer time to tell it. And typically, corporate narration is still a sell because you're talking about a company.

Tom Dheere (20:37.525) Right. You're more. Yeah.

Anne Ganguzza (21:01.003) and companies are there to sell. So you can really kind of study if you look at the nuances of how things are marketed, how commercials are run versus how digital media is run versus how we listen to Pandora or SiriusXM, how those commercials are run. You can really hear the difference in how, within the mediums, how these advertisements are presented. really...

There's so much that you can do. It's incredible, Tom, that we even get in our studios at all to do voiceover work, because there's so much stuff that you can do in the meantime to educate yourself, to prep yourself, to be ready for whatever you might be asked to do in your voiceover career.

Tom Dheere (21:48.759) Yeah, that's one thing is a lot of people think that it's all about auditioning and booking and auditioning and booking and that's what their whole career is and it's not because you're running a business and there's so many things that need to be done in so many different ways and you know everything is important. mean obviously the auditions are critical but you know so is generating and sending an invoice because if you don't send the invoice you don't get paid and what a better time to do that, right?

Anne Ganguzza (22:10.487) Yeah.

And your website is important. Absolutely. SEO. Social media is important. However you're reaching out to your potential clients is important. so you can have the best little voice in the world, but if nobody knows about it, they can't hire you, and you can't make a living. And so really understanding what are the other aspects of this business.

Tom Dheere (22:16.431) website maintenance, marketing research, lead generation.

Anne Ganguzza (22:41.71) that you need to have in place so that you can make a living and you can pay the mortgage. mean, gosh, it's the end of the month. And every month I'm like, oh, I gotta contribute to the mortgage here. And so ultimately, right, my business needs to keep moving forward. I need to keep finding clients. I need to keep improving my product. I need to keep thinking of innovative ways that I can get out in front of people so that they can hire me. They can hire my services.

Tom Dheere (23:09.696) Well, now that we've talked about that, I hope you feel better.

Anne Ganguzza (23:12.333) Well, thank you, Tom, and yes, bosses, keep healthy. And of course, you know, I do sell a wonderful product, actually, which does help, right? This is my vocal spray. I have a couple of products, and here's a shameless plug for my vocal spray. My vocal spray does help, and as a matter of fact, I should probably spritz some now, but it does help keep your voice healthy, although unfortunately, nothing is 100%. I wish that were the case. I wish I had like, here's the ultimate cure.

that you'll never get a cold again. However, if you do have a cold, you may not suffer as much. So that also can be found at anneganguzza.com of course, just being sensible and taking good care of yourself and knowing that, especially because our products are a part of us and a part of our body, I that just makes it so much more prudent that you take care of yourself and that you are doing everything in your power to be healthy.

All right, bosses, I'm gonna give a great big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses like Tom and myself, real bosses. And you can find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye.

 

Anne Ganguzza (00:05.233) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited to be with very special guest, Luanne Regis. Luanne is a veteran voiceover agent and talent agency executive with over 30 years of experience. Her career spans everything voiceover, all voiceover, including...

heading up scale departments at two LA boutique agencies, running the celebrity division at a top bi-coastal theatrical and commercial agency, as well as launching her own Chicago voiceover department in 2007. After a year at Sound and Fury Casting, she now owns and operates her own talent representation agency, Regal V.O. Luanne, thank you so much for joining me today.

Luanne Regis (00:57.621) and thank you for having me, Anne.

Anne Ganguzza (00:59.929) I love this. So I had such a wonderful time meeting you like fleetingly at MAVO and was so excited to get the chance to talk to you and work with you as well. You're gonna be coming up soon as a guest director for me on my VO Peeps group. So I'm very excited about that. And so for bosses that don't know who you are, give us a brief, kind of a brief.

Luanne Regis (01:06.115) Yes.

Luanne Regis (01:16.777) I can't wait.

Anne Ganguzza (01:26.981) bio of you more than what I've given in regards to your evolution through the years as a talent agent and representative.

Luanne Regis (01:37.067) Sure, of course. So I'll try to be brief because it is quite a long speech. And you know, voiceover, just, people ask you, how do you get into voiceover? And I'm like, I sort of really just fell into it, which I did. You know, back in the mid nineties, I answered an ad, they were looking for a voiceover assistant, an agent, and one of the partners at a boutique agency was looking for an assistant. And I thought, this is great. Let me just try this. And I quickly liked it. I liked the fact that

Anne Ganguzza (01:41.124) Ha ha ha ha!

Luanne Regis (02:04.703) The voice can really be anything. It has nothing to do with your aesthetic, what you look like, how tall you are, what color your hair is. I loved that. That to me was a very creative aspect for VoiceOver. And I started there and quickly became an agent, a scale agent, and was there for about five years. I have seen the business really, really grow and change to...

And right around the early 2001s when all of the theatrical agencies were getting into voiceover because they poo-pooed and they snubbed their noses at voiceover for so very long, a major theatrical agency wanted to have a voiceover department. And so they plucked our entire department from the boutique agency, which was Special Artists, which is where I worked since the mid-90s. And we took our entire business, SpongeBob and all, and set up shop at Innovative Artists, which was the

Anne Ganguzza (02:56.229) Mm-hmm.

Luanne Regis (02:58.751) Bicoastal theatrical agency that I was at for 16 years, including what you mentioned in my bio, starting a Chicago voiceover department for them in 2007, just after the birth of my daughter. So I was there for 16 years and you wake up one day and you have 800 clients because you represent not only, we came with not only our voiceover department intact with all of our amazing clients, but we also were there to represent.

Anne Ganguzza (03:00.314) Yes.

Luanne Regis (03:26.591) their clients and they have a really healthy roster, a very well known TV and film actors. And that's where I began doing celebrity and overscale voiceover and really enjoyed it. But you know, like I said, you wake up one day and you have 800 clients and that's a lot to manage, especially in the way in which I agent. I was taught voiceover agenting by one of the best, she's a mentor, Marsha Hurwitz. you know, it's...

Anne Ganguzza (03:29.735) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (03:43.441) Yeah.

Luanne Regis (03:52.321) All hands on, it's more like a manager. It's not just submit an audition and whatever happens happens. It's you pitch, you sell, you call producers. We don't do that anymore because the business has changed. But you're on the phone, you're calling producers, you're selling people, you're saying, I think you should really listen to Nancy Smith. She's really good on this read. That's the way I voice over agent and it's really impossible to do that with 800 people.

Anne Ganguzza (03:55.589) Yeah.

Luanne Regis (04:20.641) 800 clients on your roster. So I went back to my small boutique agency, Roots TGMD Talent, which is formerly Tishman Agency. the owner, Kevin Motley, who's a dear friend of mine, had recently sort of reshaped his agency, gutted all of the promo and trailer announcer type guys, which was an avenue in which advertisers weren't going down anymore. And we built a really great roster of actors, well-known actors.

Anne Ganguzza (04:28.993) Yep.

Luanne Regis (04:50.761) working actors, which is all I know. I know about actors in voiceover as opposed to voice actors. And was there for four years doing that until the pandemic. And then after the pandemic, I thought, you know what, I want to try my hand on the buyer's side. I always wanted to try my hand at being on the other side of the business, not just rapping. And so I worked at Sound and Fury, which is one of the, if not the top voice casting companies in the entire country, if not the world.

Anne Ganguzza (05:14.928) Mm.

Luanne Regis (05:18.941) And you know, really enjoyed my time with that team. They're like a family to me. And I missed representing talent and agenting. And so after a year, I decided to go back to it, but do it on my own. And believe it or not, I kept a lot of clients with me even as I left the agenting side and went over to the casting side because I have a a really lovely roster of

very loyal talent. Some of them I've had since I started in the mid 90s and you know they were very sad to see me leave the agenting side. So they sort of held on to me even while I was on the casting side and once I decided to jump back they were like well we're still here for the ride let's go and that's how I sort of built my roster, my independent roster I should say and again it just they just come at me. I have agents and managers and

Anne Ganguzza (05:56.687) Mm-hmm.

Luanne Regis (06:13.909) theatrical agents and commercial agents just wanting to work with me and they throw all their clients my way and I don't refuse them because I love to

Anne Ganguzza (06:21.827) love that, I love that. You know, it's interesting because, you know, as we're talking, you're kind of going back and forth between casting and agent and manager. And, you know, for the benefit of our boss listeners, what is your definition of the difference between the responsibilities of each? Because I think it's important for us as voice actors to know when we're trying to develop relationships, you know, to understand.

what is encompassed in your job because that makes us able to communicate with you easier and help you, because I really believe it's a partnership no matter what you're really looking for. And so I think it will help us as voice actors to work with agents or casting directors better.

Luanne Regis (06:57.664) It is.

Luanne Regis (07:06.443) Well, the reason why, and that's a great question, and the reason why the transition from agent to casting director back to agent was such a seamless one is because a lot of what my job entails as a voiceover agent is casting. We work with casting directors, but agents also work directly with buyers and producers, and they come to us looking for talent. And we sit there and cast.

Anne Ganguzza (07:22.287) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (07:28.657) Mm-hmm.

Luanne Regis (07:33.555) in pretty much the same way a casting director who gets paid to do it does it. I sit there, I go through my roster, who's right for this? And I do essentially do a casting. And so a lot of my agenting is casting, but that's just sort of like the day-to-day job of a voiceover agent. Again, back in the day when we had booths and actors would come into our lobby and read and have, you'd be distributing copy, you know, back in the day, pre-pandemic and all that.

Anne Ganguzza (07:41.307) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (07:48.07) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (07:58.631) Look at

Luanne Regis (08:03.611) A big part of my job also was directing talent, not just sitting at a desk and agenting. I would go into the booth. I need to know what my talent does. I need to be able to sell that person. So in order to do that, I'm in the booth, I'm directing, and I really, really love that directing process because it's, again, it hinges on such creativity. It's so creative. They get to play around. I get also to play around with them in terms of what they can do, what their range is.

Anne Ganguzza (08:07.974) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (08:15.109) Right.

Anne Ganguzza (08:21.264) Mm-hmm.

Luanne Regis (08:32.991) And that's how I know what my clients can bring to the table so I can effectively sell them. So it's casting, it's directing, it's obviously selling. It's very managerial as well because I'm, like I said, very, very hands on. you know, like for instance, many times I go into the booth with a client and we'd spend an hour in there if we have the time. And the last five minutes of that hour really is recording the copy and auditioning.

Anne Ganguzza (08:46.767) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (09:02.342) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Luanne Regis (09:02.561) but the previous, how many ever minutes, spent catching up. How's your wife? How are the kids? How is life? How's your mom doing? Stuff like that. That's how you get to really know clients because what they share with you in the booth, you bring that to you as you're casting. You bring that to you as you're selling them. You have to really know them inside out. That's more of a very managerial, I think, position as an agent.

Anne Ganguzza (09:08.646) Right.

Anne Ganguzza (09:16.238) Right.

Luanne Regis (09:30.641) not all agents agent that way. I just learned to do it that way. So it's manage it's managing talent. It's selling talent, agenting obviously, but it's also casting and directing talent in the booth. And then of course your negotiations skills come into play. Your knowledge of contracts, your knowledge of legal, legal procedures, as far as contracts go. That's all encompassing as a voiceover agent.

Anne Ganguzza (09:33.484) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (09:48.355) Sure.

Anne Ganguzza (09:54.34) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (09:58.767) It's such a broad base of that you need to have. And you said something before that I thought was so interesting. You said you had been working with, and it really, I think it goes to show the evolution of the business. You talked about actors who did voice acting rather than voice actors. And so I caught that little tiny nuance right there, which really speaks to your amount of time and experience in the industry.

Luanne Regis (10:00.82) It is.

Luanne Regis (10:16.416) Yes.

Yes.

Luanne Regis (10:23.829) Yes, yes.

Anne Ganguzza (10:25.509) Because how often, like what would you say, I guess now in your, because you've been in business for so long, you must still, I suspect, deal with actors who do voice acting, as well as voice actors. And what are your thoughts on how you work with, let's say, actors now who do voice acting, or voice actors differently? Do you spend as much time, or how does that work today?

Luanne Regis (10:33.877) We will.

Mm-hmm.

Luanne Regis (10:53.737) The reason why for me, it's actors in voiceover, not only was I brought up in the business knowing that, because when I started at Special Artists, they were mainly a commercial, on-camera commercial agency, and this predated me, obviously, but when they started their voiceover department, they used their on-camera actors as the basis for their voiceover department.

Anne Ganguzza (10:56.25) Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (11:10.118) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (11:21.253) Mm-hmm.

Luanne Regis (11:21.853) I come from a track record where the agents who taught me used actors and put them in voiceover and made them successful. The voice of SpongeBob, Tom Kenny, was a comedian, an actor. We put him, he made that transition because of how talented he is. So I do feel voiceover is not just a voice, you're acting.

Anne Ganguzza (11:29.339) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (11:35.44) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (11:49.35) Sure. Yeah.

Luanne Regis (11:50.529) You're bringing copy to life. You're selling copy, but you have to bring it to life. You have to connect with the product. You have to connect with what the words are saying. So at the end of the day, it really is about acting, which is why I favor having someone who has an acting resume, someone who's done work, because they have a certain measure of experience that they can bring to the voiceover table.

Anne Ganguzza (11:59.761) Sure.

Anne Ganguzza (12:08.358) Sure.

Anne Ganguzza (12:15.463) Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I love the emphasis on acting because even for something like I specialize in a lot of the corporate e-learning, the non-broadcast style stuff, but in order to really bring that material to life, and sometimes it needs a lot of help, just saying, because it can be a little bit dry and boring, you have to, I mean, every company, and I think whether you're dealing with commercial,

Luanne Regis (12:27.894) Yes.

Anne Ganguzza (12:41.959) Right? Any type of copy. mean, if you're dealing with a company or a client, they're ultimately, I mean, unless you're doing entertainment, right? Ultimately, they're trying to sell something. And so there's always a story. I good companies, I would say that, you know, it's marketing 101 that, you know, stories really sell better than, you know,

Luanne Regis (12:49.375) Right. Absolutely.

Anne Ganguzza (13:03.322) cold heart announcing facts sort of thing. And so if you can be the actor that can tell the story or understand the story that the company wants to sell or tell, that's gonna help them to sell. So I love the emphasis on acting.

Luanne Regis (13:04.437) Yeah, yeah.

Luanne Regis (13:14.749) Absolutely, and it really, you're absolutely right. When you say, a story, that is really what it is. I was telling actors yesterday, you have to, when you get a script, you create a narrative behind that script that those lines will support. Whether it's right or wrong, it's truthful and it's authentic.

But you do have to connect with the product. You do have to connect with the lines. You do have to connect with the script. And the only way you do that is if you make it part of a story that you're telling.

Anne Ganguzza (13:36.142) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (13:45.703) Yes, absolutely. And I think that's what so, at least with students when I'm working with them in the corporate narration or the e-lin, like what story? I'm delivering information. I'm like, but there is a story and you have to keep the listener's attention for longer than 30 or 60 seconds. This is not a 60 second commercial. And so even if I...

Luanne Regis (13:58.849) We resist.

Luanne Regis (14:04.372) You too. That's right.

Anne Ganguzza (14:08.642) I think if the story doesn't make sense, right, if they're reading the words and they're like, well, I would never really say that, or you know, you have to create the scene in which those words make sense. And I guess my question to you is, what would you say is the main difference between on-camera acting and voice acting?

Luanne Regis (14:17.173) That's right. Yes.

Luanne Regis (14:26.939) on camera acting, you have so much more at your disposal. You have what you look like, you have the physicality of being on camera. And this is why I love voiceover, because with voiceover acting, you have to basically emit all of that just vocally. Whether you're in the booth and you're, you where you see the animation characters, they're in the booth and they're using their hands and all that, that's all well and fine, but that does not translate on camera in the way it

Anne Ganguzza (14:31.59) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (14:44.708) Yeah, yeah, through your voice.

Luanne Regis (14:56.417) would if you were an on-camera actor. really does have, so again, we go back to is telling that story. If you have a story to tell, it's gonna come out in the words, it's gonna come out in the smile, it's going to come out in the warmth that you bring out, or not the warmth, or the cold, or whatever it is, the stories that you're telling. But it all comes from the heart, it all comes from here.

Anne Ganguzza (14:57.062) Right.

Luanne Regis (15:22.313) as opposed to you being able to use your hands to gesture in a way that conveys whatever you're trying to convey in an acting, you know, when you're acting.

Anne Ganguzza (15:26.49) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (15:32.231) So what would you say when you're working with talent? time is precious these days, so I imagine that you probably don't have as much time to work with talent, let's say on a job or an audition, as you would. What are the types of things that you find you're telling your talent to do most in terms of, know, either following direction better or their performance-wise? What are the kind of tips or tricks that you're speaking to most?

Luanne Regis (15:40.437) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Luanne Regis (15:59.487) Yeah. Well, it does vary from project and script to script, obviously, but a lot of it is what I just said, you know, creating that story, creating that narrative. A lot of times, and this specifically relates to commercial copy, a lot of times you get a script and you have no idea what the storyboards are. You have no idea what the visuals are. You just have maybe two or three lines and you sort of have to put it together. At that point, you have to make a very specific creative choice. This is the story I'm going to tell.

Anne Ganguzza (16:02.171) these days.

Mm.

Anne Ganguzza (16:18.566) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (16:25.562) Mm-hmm.

Luanne Regis (16:27.957) So that's one tip and we just spoke about that. There's a lot of non-announcery, non-polish, non-slick directives nowadays and I always have to tell my clients, so here's what I want you to do. I don't want you to think about yourself on mic. I don't want you to think about yourself up there as a speaker or as an announcer saying something. I want you to sit and talk to a friend at a bar and you say what you need to say and you come from that place.

so that we can get you conversational, we can get you casual, and we don't have you coming out of the box like you're making a grand announcement. A tip, a trick I use sometimes is I will have them slate their name after they've done their session, after they've done their audition, because once you slate your name, Luanne Regis, you sort of go into this, okay, I'm here, I'm announcing mode, I just want you to tell me what you have to say on your copy, you can save the slate for later. So that's just one of the tips that I use.

Anne Ganguzza (17:05.296) Sure, sure.

Anne Ganguzza (17:17.808) Right.

Anne Ganguzza (17:25.06) Mm-hmm.

Luanne Regis (17:25.375) you know, the conversational thing, just sort of like bring it back home. If it's something that I feel they need to be a little bit more intimate with, I give them situations like, I want you to read this bedtime story to your six year old, or I want you to sit with your child and have a one-on-one conversation with him or her. you know, I just give them a place from which to emote so that we can bring that emotion into the copy.

Anne Ganguzza (17:48.752) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (17:52.803) Speaking of emotion, find, for me, just on longer copy, because if you have a particular energy or emotion and you continue for over a minute or two or three, with that same energy, it doesn't necessarily allow the story to flow. And I feel that people might get into the rhythm of this particular emotion or this particular...

Luanne Regis (18:03.958) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (18:14.887) Energy and I feel with with any good story right energy in your story changes and evolves and it can evolve throughout like the course of one sentence even and the energy you start with in the beginning or the story that you tell in the beginning isn't necessarily the same story that's happening or evolving when you're halfway through or three-quarters of the way through and for a lot of for a lot of my students I find that you know if they're if they forget

Luanne Regis (18:25.502) Absolutely.

Luanne Regis (18:37.152) Right.

Anne Ganguzza (18:44.119) about the story halfway through, then it starts to turn into this kind of just into this, let's news, news broadcast read or, you know, something like that. And so in the middle of the script, do you ever have to kind of redirect or give another scene to help this through? Or are you finding that for the most part, you're working with with top caliber actors that already are doing that or have done that?

Luanne Regis (18:51.041) Yeah.

Luanne Regis (19:09.279) Yeah, know what, an actor is gonna find his or her way, again, depending on the story that they want to tell. The seasoned actors, the really good actors understand how to flow in and out, how to make a change, or how to sort of navigate around certain things. And I'm glad you asked that question, because one point I really wanna bring to mind is sometimes when you're directing talent, I can't tell you.

Anne Ganguzza (19:13.723) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (19:18.042) Yeah.

Luanne Regis (19:37.663) Yes, I can give you a line reading. Yes, I can tell you how to do it. But I want you to color it the way you would color it because that brings a certain uniqueness that no one else will do. You might put a pause in the middle of the copy for effect, or you could take a beat, or you could do a slight, And someone else will not necessarily do that. that...

Anne Ganguzza (19:39.748) Yeah.

Anne Ganguzza (19:44.613) Right.

Anne Ganguzza (19:50.395) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (20:02.822) Mm-hmm.

Luanne Regis (20:02.827) Completely changes the way that copy gets conveyed to to the audience. So a lot of times it's it's what you do specifically and not me directing you into that read because I want it I sort of wanted to come from you I want you to bring that that authenticity to it because at the end of the day authenticity is what will May not book you the job, but it will have the producer go. Wait a second. What can we hear what? And that's what you want to do

Anne Ganguzza (20:27.787) Mm, it might get you on the short list.

Luanne Regis (20:31.357) Exactly. That's what I'm glad you said that I was seeing this exact same thing yesterday. It's like, yes, you want to book the job, but don't focus on booking the job. Focus on wowing whoever's listening, focus on making an impact. So maybe you weren't right for that job, but perhaps you bring you back in for something else.

Anne Ganguzza (20:42.17) Yeah.

Anne Ganguzza (20:48.133) Yeah, yeah. And also I think then you're really, especially if it's an audition that you're submitting to your agent or casting director that is very familiar with working with actors in regards to, well, okay, it can showcase right away that you're an actor. And if you're an actor, you'll be able to follow direction no matter what the direction ends up being. Cause I have a lot of times people will say to me, but that's not what I hear in the actual commercial.

Luanne Regis (21:00.321) Mm-hmm.

Luanne Regis (21:06.037) Yes.

Anne Ganguzza (21:16.229) you know, it sounds completely different. And, you know, I'm always like, well, you know, it really depends on who's directing you at the time and what the client is listening to and what they hear in their head as being the way they want the copyright. So you have to be versatile enough to be able to take any direction. I've turned in for me as a coach, I've turned to almost saying, well, here, I'm coaching you on how to get the gig, not necessarily on the final product, because

Luanne Regis (21:17.878) Thanks

Luanne Regis (21:22.251) That's right.

Luanne Regis (21:28.415) Yes, yes.

Luanne Regis (21:45.429) Right.

Anne Ganguzza (21:46.129) Coaching you to get the gig is gonna make you the most authentic actor that you can showcase in the first or second sentence. So for me, Luanne, coming in in the first or second sentence is so important with a connection to the copy. Talk to the importance of maybe that, the first few words that come out of the actor's mouth or in the copy, how important is that?

Luanne Regis (21:50.145) That's right.

Luanne Regis (21:58.719) Yes. Yes.

Luanne Regis (22:10.145) very, very important because again, when I worked at Sound and Fury and we got 800 casting, 800 auditions from one casting, they're listening and they know right away if this person's gonna nail it or not. So you wanna come in just hitting the mark immediately. even, obviously I don't have 800 clients, but you see that process with a casting director. They don't have the time to listen to the entire script if they feel you didn't hit it within the first.

Anne Ganguzza (22:24.079) Mm.

Anne Ganguzza (22:28.027) Mm-hmm.

Luanne Regis (22:39.929) Or maybe not even hit it if you didn't do something in the beginning that made them go. let me keep listening because time is money and they do have to get through all of these these auditions and the same to a certain extent with me I mean I listen to every single audition all the way through but I know by the second or third line if someone has nailed that piece of copy or not just because obviously I have the the experience in the years of the instinct but again, it's that

You can't put your finger on it. It's that je ne sais quoi. It's like, yeah, let me keep this. wow, she did that? Okay. It really is important to nail whatever you want to nail at the beginning of the copy as opposed to saving your best for last.

Anne Ganguzza (23:24.047) Yeah. Now, I love that you said you listen to the auditions all the way through. Now, why? Why do you do that?

Luanne Regis (23:32.085) For several reasons. One, and you said something that I wanted to sort of bring back to the forefront, so I'm glad you asked that question. A lot of times, again, I'm a casting, I'm sort of a casting director when I age, because I'm putting people on stuff and I'm wondering, is she right for it, is he right for it? I have to listen throughout the whole thing. One, because it's my client and they've done the audition and I need to hear what they did, they may not be right for it.

Anne Ganguzza (23:33.732) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (23:48.848) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (23:54.715) Mm.

Luanne Regis (23:58.805) That way I know, you know what, I'm not gonna put him or her on this anymore because I don't think they're right for it. Or I hear something that they do and I think, you know what, I've got something else that, I've got a different role that I think she's right for. I don't think I put her on the right role. I think I need to get her on this other one. So it gives me a clue. It clues me into what my clients can do, what they can't do, even as well as I know them, even as much as I know their range.

Anne Ganguzza (24:04.314) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (24:23.494) Mm-hmm.

Luanne Regis (24:25.481) I still am learning a lot about them as we go along. So it behooves me to listen to everything that they do.

Anne Ganguzza (24:33.53) so interesting. I love that you listen all the way through because it shows that you really care and that you really care about your clients and you care about making the best fit and really choosing the best person for the job. That just requires a lot of, think, integrity and I love that. I think that's amazing. Plus, I think it's so interesting because maybe even...

Luanne Regis (24:36.417) Mm-hmm.

It does, yeah. Yeah.

Luanne Regis (24:47.359) Yeah.

Luanne Regis (24:52.883) Yeah.

Anne Ganguzza (24:57.946) You know, people that you've known for a long time, I mean, we continue to grow and evolve and learn and discover. I find with myself, like, I discover new things about myself and it impacts, right, my acting in the booth. And, you know, in lots of different ways where all of a sudden I'll be like, well, gosh, I've been doing it like this for years and goodness, I should have maybe thought this way. And it just will bring something different out in me, which is kind of cool. And so that's just kind of being the lifelong learner sort of.

Luanne Regis (25:02.678) Yes.

Luanne Regis (25:12.607) Yes.

Luanne Regis (25:27.05) Yeah!

Anne Ganguzza (25:27.483) you know, always trying to grow my skills and craft. And you think like, well, have I reached this point? Well, now I've done it and I'm an actor. But I feel like you never quite reach the point where you're never not learning.

Luanne Regis (25:31.583) All right.

Luanne Regis (25:42.129) No, you always are learning and you're always trying new things and I'm always learning things about clients. I'm like, I didn't know you did that. That's good for me. I can sell you in a different way now. it's a learning process on both ends.

Anne Ganguzza (25:49.508) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (25:53.05) Yeah. Yeah.

Anne Ganguzza (25:59.142) So the sell, okay? I wanna talk a little bit about the sell. When you're trying to sell a talent, what is it when you're communicating with a client for a particular spot? So what's involved in the sell of it on your end? I'm just curious because I've never, I mean, I've cast people, but I've never really been had to like, hear my choices and then the client will ultimately make the...

the end result, but when you're really trying to sell a talent, like what goes, what sort of qualities are you selling in the talent?

Luanne Regis (26:36.605) So you're talking about me selling to a buyer a casting director or okay? So then it would it depends on if it's the buyer's a casting director or if the buyer is the actual buyer the producer the the ad agency or something You know if it's a casting director. It's because I want that person to understand He can do this what you're asking what you're asking for me to cast for you This guy can do this so I need you to

Anne Ganguzza (26:39.876) Yeah, to a buyer, yes, yeah.

Anne Ganguzza (26:45.766) Mm-hmm.

buyer, right, Yeah.

Luanne Regis (27:05.161) I send links, send if it's stand-up comedians they're looking for, I send a link to their stand-up. One of many different ways I keep all of my auditions, so I will curate a specific sample of voices so that they can hear. For instance, if they're looking for something specific, I go back and I pull auditions that they've done for that specific character and I said, listen, here's what he's done for me in the past. That's one tool I use to sell.

Anne Ganguzza (27:20.75) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (27:32.622) Mm. Mm-hmm.

Luanne Regis (27:32.833) And that's to a cast director if I want to convince her that this client can audition for her on a project if it's a buyer the actual buyer the producer the ad agency or Yeah, well, it would be the producer of an ad agency because if it's animation is it's casting directors You know again, it's showcasing what they've done before showcasing the stuff that they've done showing them listen to this

Anne Ganguzza (27:40.218) Got it, got it. Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (27:48.357) Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anne Ganguzza (27:55.206) Mm-hmm.

Luanne Regis (27:59.647) I know you're looking for a guy that can do this. Listen to him right here. He's done this before. He's auditioned for this before. He's actually booked this before. Here's a spot that he's done. And you might want to listen to this. So that is, that's what I'm pushing when I'm speaking to producers. Sadly, don't get, don't have, agents don't have that direct link to producers anymore. It's really become so remote now and remote, in the sense of remote recording, but.

Anne Ganguzza (28:12.003) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (28:16.624) Got it.

Luanne Regis (28:27.433) remote in the sense of we're far removed from these producers. I used to be able to pick up the phone and call a producer at Leo Burnett and say, listen to Nancy, she's really great for this. You want to hire her. And they would hire her. But they themselves, the producers, they're removed as well from their clients. Now it's the client, Walmart, that has to make the decision. The producer used to be able to make the decision before.

Anne Ganguzza (28:30.181) Yeah.

Anne Ganguzza (28:47.59) Sure.

that's a, I'm so glad you made that distinction because I think for a lot of voice actors, they don't really know what happens once they submit that audition. then what is, like what's, how does my audition traverse, you know, to either get to the ears of the person who's hiring and who is the person that's hiring, right? You know, because I think if you're my talent agent, right, and I'm auditioning for you.

Luanne Regis (29:03.478) Yes.

That's right.

Luanne Regis (29:11.638) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (29:17.219) What I love and what I've heard from you is that you must have a little file of me where you're keeping all my good auditions and you're keeping all the spots that I've done and I like that, right? You didn't just trash my audition if I didn't work for that particular spot, but you're like, okay, so you've got like bits and pieces of me there. And then, so if you're working with another, let's say, casting director, right? You can then send those files and sell me in that way. But then if you're actually talking to the client directly,

Luanne Regis (29:22.527) Yes. Yes.

Luanne Regis (29:28.619) Nope, keep everything.

Luanne Regis (29:43.236) Right.

Anne Ganguzza (29:47.342) Which is something I'm like, well, I've not been in this process. I speak with my clients directly, but probably not on the scale that you do because you're working on a broadcast scale. So I have a client that I've worked with for years and they'll ask me, who do you think would be good to do this for me? And I can refer, which is.

Luanne Regis (29:55.937) you

Luanne Regis (30:00.394) Right.

Luanne Regis (30:05.569) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (30:09.817) on a small scale compared to what you do. Because you're talking to big time producers and agencies that have multiple projects going on. And so for me as an actor, I never quite know what happens once I submit that audition. So it's really nice that you just kind of explain that process. And the fact that you said you don't always get to talk to the producer like you used to be able to, which is what I sometimes I assume and I don't really know.

Luanne Regis (30:11.457) Yes.

Anne Ganguzza (30:36.548) you know, depending on the agency, depending on who it is and what your relationships are, which I think it comes all down to relationships. But you're right, now even the producer is removed because it really comes down to like, let's say the client Walmart or whoever that might be. So that's a very good thing to know from my perspective.

Luanne Regis (30:42.518) Yes.

Luanne Regis (30:53.621) And I'll tell you the reason, I'll tell you the reason for that, Anne, and I want to make sure people understand this because it was a very drastic change. think the reason that I was able to, first of all, be able to pick up the phone and call a producer and they would actually book, or the producer would call me and say, who do you have for this? We need to cast this job right away. Who do you have? book David Pasquese. He'd be great. And they would hire him. So how many ever years, 10, 15 years ago when, you know, the big

Anne Ganguzza (31:09.666) Mm. Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (31:15.611) Mm-hmm.

Luanne Regis (31:23.113) ad agencies, the DDB Needhams, the Chiat Days, you the big ad agencies, they had the bulk of the work, they had the majority of the work. And as time went by, these smaller agencies started picking up work. So the ad agency now sort of lost the power to be able to make that decision because they themselves are trying to hold on to their accounts. So they no longer can say, I can hire you for this Walmart voiceover.

Anne Ganguzza (31:25.37) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (31:29.821) mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (31:41.527) Mm-hmm.

Yes, yes, yes. Makes sense.

Luanne Regis (31:49.953) they now have to check with the head of marketing or whomever at Walmart. That never used to be the case. They used to be able to pull that trigger and go, great, let's hire him. That's no longer the case. And I do firmly believe it's because of that change over in, in work, a lot of ad agencies lost clients, a lot of ad agencies are afraid of losing their clients. So they're really at the disposal at the mercy of their clients to make every single decision.

Anne Ganguzza (31:52.944) Sure.

Anne Ganguzza (32:20.359) That's very interesting and that really speaks to this, think also the size of the industry over the years that has really increased greatly.

Luanne Regis (32:21.248) Yeah.

Luanne Regis (32:25.183) Yes, yes. It has, yeah. No, it has. You've had a lot of these smaller or maybe ad execs from ad agencies sort of offshoots and go off and start their own small companies, and they're now getting the big jobs. They're now getting the big work as opposed to those big multimedia conglomerate ad agencies that they're not really getting those accounts anymore.

Anne Ganguzza (32:41.616) Sure.

Anne Ganguzza (32:46.544) Right?

Anne Ganguzza (32:51.686) Well, and now also I think technology, mean, gosh, technology has certainly evolved over the years. And now a lot of times, like you said, you'd meet in the, and I from back in the day when I would go to a studio for a callback, and gosh, that's almost not the case too much anymore. But I miss the days when you would see all your voiceover friends in the lobby. And even though you'd kind of be a little bit nervous, you'd all be like catching up and seeing people you hadn't seen in a while.

Luanne Regis (32:55.179) Yeah.

Luanne Regis (32:59.188) It has.

Luanne Regis (33:09.491) I know.

Luanne Regis (33:14.185) Yeah.

Luanne Regis (33:19.137) Yeah.

Anne Ganguzza (33:21.375) And I kind of miss that. with the digital evolution and people having their home studios and the internet and I think a lot of those agencies too, mean, went online, am I not correct? Yeah, yeah.

Luanne Regis (33:23.497) Yeah.

Luanne Regis (33:34.943) They sure did. They sure did. Yeah, they really did. And to speak a little bit, I'm just going to hear my pet peeve about that. Again, I remember a day when ad agency would hire a studio here, hire a studio in Chicago, hire a studio where they are, and they would connect. Now that cost, because we've had a situation like the pandemic where everyone sort of had to get set up to record from home, a lot of ad agencies haven't gone back to that, gone back to hiring studios.

Anne Ganguzza (33:49.52) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (33:59.366) Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Luanne Regis (34:04.277) they figured out a way, wait a second, we don't have to hire a studio. We don't have to incur that cost. We can keep that budget under control and pass that cost on to the actor. That's one of my biggest pet peeves of the consequence of the pandemic where actors have now had to become engineers, incur their own costs for studios. I'm like, wait a second, you would hire a studio in New York and Los Angeles back in the day. We're like, how is that?

Anne Ganguzza (34:29.489) Yeah.

Luanne Regis (34:34.37) What do I know what you're doing.

Anne Ganguzza (34:36.282) Yeah, and they're not necessarily, you know, claiming, I am correct in the assumption, they're not necessarily saying, well, hey, I've got a home studio. I should be charging for that studio. I should be tired. Theoretically, right, they are, but I don't know anybody that really, like, has a line item that says, hey, this is my studio cost, right?

Luanne Regis (34:45.825) No!

Luanne Regis (34:53.957) No, no, the actors sadly have had to fall in line, you know, and now we've gone, it's just everyone is now remote studio required, home studio required. I'm like, wait a second, you would hire a studio back in the day. I just think it's unfair because now the actor should be concentrating on his audition and he should be concentrating on the creative aspect. He should not be asked to upload stuff. He should not be asked to be an engineer in his own session. You know, it's just the way of the world now.

Anne Ganguzza (34:58.35) Yeah, it got absorbed.

Anne Ganguzza (35:03.504) Yeah. Yeah.

Anne Ganguzza (35:23.567) It is such a luxury to be directed even in my home studio now. It's just, and it's lovely for, I will say at least they're Source Connect so that an engineer can take what I'm doing back here in my home studio and engineer it and I don't have to upload and he can just take it. That is a luxury. And also the fact of actually having a director is a luxury these days. And I love it. And I kind of wish we went back to it.

Luanne Regis (35:27.403) Yeah.

Luanne Regis (35:39.711) and do his own thing. Yes.

Luanne Regis (35:47.198) Yeah.

Luanne Regis (35:52.757) I know.

Anne Ganguzza (35:53.33) And you never know, mean, maybe that will happen, maybe that will not, but I think in the end, right, is it not all driven by the customer, right, the client, like it's Walmart, like what do they want? And so ultimately, what type of voice are they gonna look for? How are they gonna hire? And I think that's something as a voice actor, we need to consider the business aspect of it, because how are we going to kind of shine in front of all of...

it seems like obstacles, maybe not obstacles, but there's so many paths to getting hired these days, you know, and yeah.

Luanne Regis (36:28.031) Yes, there are. And let me go back to a question you asked earlier about what happens when that audition goes off. And it's really important for actors to understand, because you don't book a job, that doesn't mean you weren't on a short list. That doesn't mean that you weren't listened to and someone was vying for you and that just, the client or whomever came in and said, no, let's go with a woman instead of a man. doesn't, you have...

Anne Ganguzza (36:53.264) Mm-hmm.

Luanne Regis (36:54.205) I have no idea what happens once it leaves my, you know, my coffers because no one says anything. And then you get on a short list and you have one of five on a short list and that's great, you're excited. And then it just goes away. But for me, that's a win. Like someone listened to you and someone put you on a short list and someone considered you for this job. And even beyond the short list, you don't know who listened and went, wow, I really like him. You know what I mean? It's like, there's so many.

Anne Ganguzza (36:57.574) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (37:08.42) Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (37:20.496) Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that you brought that up. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Luanne Regis (37:23.837) intangibles and actors need to understand that just because you didn't book a job doesn't mean you weren't right for it. They could have changed their minds, changed the specs, changed the age, changed the gender. All of those things sort of are out of your control.

Anne Ganguzza (37:36.432) Yeah.

Anne Ganguzza (37:39.791) Yeah, there's so many aspects that are out of your control. And I think that's one of the most important things that a voice actor can also do is try to understand that and not let the mental, like, my gosh, I don't know what happened, or I'm not good enough, or that self-sabotage, get to them. And I think that's one of the biggest challenges that a lot of voice actors face is imposter syndrome that, because they didn't hear anything, they assume, right?

Luanne Regis (37:53.119) I know. Yeah. Yeah.

Luanne Regis (38:00.788) It is.

Luanne Regis (38:06.399) Yeah, that's right. And by the way, that's another aspect of my job as an agent, to sort of manage their expectations and manage their disappointments. I had an actress tell me last night, she said, you know, I'm really just very dejected and sort of tired and fatigued with these auditions. I haven't had a callback, I haven't had this, I haven't had that. And for me, you know, I need to...

Anne Ganguzza (38:15.171) Mm-hmm.

Anne Ganguzza (38:19.792) Mm-hmm.

Luanne Regis (38:32.841) I do need to boost her up, at the same time, I do need to understand her frustration and it's real. So, you know, my job there is to sort of maybe go, okay, let me reevaluate, reevaluate, excuse me, what I'm sending her. Maybe I'm not sending her the things that she's really gonna nail because at the end of the day, as an agent, you don't want to keep sending an actor hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of auditions and they're not booking because that debilitates them.

Anne Ganguzza (38:38.63) Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Luanne Regis (39:02.207) So part of my job is almost like a therapist of sorts. It's sort of like manage how they feel. Okay, let's do this then. Let's sort of reevaluate what we send you. Let me pull back a little bit so that you don't feel burnt out. How can I help you? Because obviously I believe in her. I don't want her to just go silent and not do auditions, but I have to kind of hold her hand along the way.

Anne Ganguzza (39:06.086) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Anne Ganguzza (39:26.727) Right, Sure.

Luanne Regis (39:30.187) That's another aspect of the voiceover agent's job, at least mine.

Anne Ganguzza (39:31.706) Yeah. Yeah. I love it. this has been such a wonderful conversation, Luanne. thank you. Thank you. Well, it's been a pleasure. And I'll tell you what, I cannot wait to have you as a guest director for my group, for my VO Peeps guys. So make sure you take a look for that coming up soon.

Luanne Regis (39:37.824) I love your questions, the way. Your questions are very pointed.

Luanne Regis (39:47.711) Yes, I cannot wait. Yes.

Luanne Regis (39:54.08) Yes.

Anne Ganguzza (39:55.916) And with that, I will give a great big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Luanne, this has really been amazing. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.

Luanne Regis (40:08.373) Thank you, Anne, for having me. I really do love talking about this stuff.

Anne Ganguzza (40:13.146) Bosses, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.

Luanne Regis (40:16.033) Bye!

 

00:01 - Ad (Ad) Anne Ganguzza, you are a true gem. Okay, I am a voice actor, been in the business over 15 years, eight of those full time but, honest to goodness, until discovering the VO Boss Podcast this year, I feel like I've been getting away with murder. I don't even know how I've been as successful as I have been without all the strategies and perspectives and predictions that you make about our industry. I feel like I've been in VO College for like the past six, seven months listening to the VO Boss podcast. It's just incredible and I can't thank you enough. I love you, I love your co-hosts, I love your guests. It's just so full of information that I can put into action for my business and just please keep doing what you're doing, because I feel like I'm taking my business to the next level the boss level. 

01:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey boss, talent Anne Ganguzza here with a quick shout out to those who are a little freaked out about marketing. VO BOSS Blast is your secret weapon, making your marketing manageable. Your voice deserves to be heard. Join us at vo boss.com and start your marketing campaign today is the Boss Level marketing campaign. Today, it's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. 

01:30 - Intro (Announcement) These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

01:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Money Talk Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so happy to be here again with our resident money gal, Danielle Famble. Hey Danielle, hey Anne, how are you? 

02:00 - Danielle Famble (Guest) I'm good, I'm good. How are you? 

02:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I am good. You know, it's been a busy week of auditioning, coaching, working, submitting auditions, and I happened to reach out to my agent and it made me think about our series about money and I thought it would be great to talk about the whole agent aspect managers, pay-to-plays, the whole agent aspect, managers, pay-to-plays and about financials when we work with said companies, people. I think there's a lot of myths out there for people that are just getting into the industry or even people who are in the industry. They have a lot of beliefs about managers and pay-to-plays and should I, shouldn't I? What's fair, what's not fair? 

02:44 I thought it'd be a great time to talk about that today. 

02:46 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, that's actually really important because these agents and managers are pay-to-plays they're all businesses, right? So they are working within the business model that they have set up for themselves and businesses have costs and so to work with a business, there is a cost there and you, as the VO boss running your own business, you have to think about the cost that you would be paying, the business expenses you'd be paying for having these relationships. So, yeah, it's really important. 

03:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, let's start actually. Let's start with, let's say, somebody's just getting into the industry, and I know a lot of myths about people that just get into the industry. They believe that they need to be able to get an agent right away. And so we can start there to dispel some of those myths. And, by the way, I will say myself personally, I was working full time in the industry for about four years before I got my first agent. 

03:36 Oh wow, yeah, mostly because I was doing a lot of non-broadcast work. And so agents, their business, as we were just discussing, right, and businesses are in business to make money. And so if we think about an agent, where is the money right for the agent? How does the agent make money? Well, they get a percentage right of the jobs that they cast and opportunities that they send to us. And if we book that job because they provided us with that opportunity and negotiated on our behalf, they then get a certain percentage of that money and their business model, like any business, right, we want to remain in business, so it behooves them to make money right, to get bookings and to get jobs. And so I guess, Danielle, first of all let me ask you, I mean, in dispelling the myth, I mean, did you get an agent right away when you first got into the business, or what was your entrance into the business? 

04:35 - Danielle Famble (Guest) So my entrance I actually came from a musical theater background and I had representation sending me out on auditions for shows, for theater shows, and that person also did rep people who were doing voiceover, who were doing on camera. So I basically kind of moved within that organization from being on stage to being behind the microphone. So in that respect I did start out with representation and then actually moved to a different agent who specialized specifically in voiceover. So that was my trajectory. But to your point and I think this is actually really important, depending on what you're wanting to do, like what genres that you are going into and really like putting your focus in, you may or may not need an agent, especially like with non-broadcast, for example. 

05:27 You can get a lot of that work on your own with your own marketing and things like that. So you may not need an agent and there may not be agents who are really focusing in that specific niche to go to and work with them. So I think the question then becomes for the individual VO boss what is your business model? Are you wanting to do more commercials? Are you wanting to do non-broadcast? Are you wanting to do animation? Really, depending on what genres you're really targeting, depends on if you need or it would work best for you to have an agent or representation. I think a lot of people when you hear that they want to work with an agent, it's probably because they want to do commercials mostly, or animation. 

06:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, exactly. And I'm always stressing to my students that are just coming to me, that are new to the industry, that in reality, I mean you don't need an agent if you're not getting into broadcast right away. I mean you can acquire an agent later on or at a certain point, and most agents, I would say, are only really concerned with broadcast. Why? Because they get paid more. 

06:32 It's as simple as that it's as simple as that right it's the money, because broadcast they can get paid based upon the job and where and how often it airs, because they'll get paid each and every time that happens. For non-broadcast it's kind of a one and done. Now all agents are not created equal. I mean there are some agents that are specializing in specific genres. Now I don't know of any agent that really specifies in an e-learning genre, but that's because why it's non-broadcast and it doesn't necessarily behoove them right to focus on that, because it's a one-and-done sort of thing. So the amount of money they're going to make on a non-broadcast job versus a broadcast where they're going to pay royalties, residuals, all that good stuff, is minimal. 

07:17 And now I do have an agent that I book a lot of corporate work. I mean they're not going to say no, right, and I'm sure it's working with a company that also books broadcast style commercials and that sort of thing. So they also like, oh, I need a little internal training video or I need a corporate video that's going to be on my YouTube channel, and so I will get those jobs from my agent as well. But to be quite honest, I mean it's not as exciting as if I booked a national commercial. Sure. 

07:46 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah. 

07:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) The money. There is obviously much better there. So that is with agents, right? Well, let's discuss pay-to-plays, right? Because there's a lot of people who are like, oh, we should just direct market, how do I get opportunities? And a lot of people, when they first start out, want to talk about pay-to-plays and so pay-to-plays and so pay-to-plays, as their name suggests. Right is, we are going to pay so that we can play or get jobs and auditions, and so we pay a fee and, depending on the pay-to-play site, they have different business models. So you pay one fee for a particular amount of auditions or a particular level. At this point it used to just be one fee where, oh, you're on the site and you get auditions, and now they've kind of really diversified and have different levels many of them and so, depending on the amount that you pay, you get a different amount of opportunities. 

08:36 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Or you get the opportunities at like a staggered time depending. But yes, exactly Like for all of these different companies, as you're saying, they all have a different business model. So really the question becomes like are you willing to subscribe to that company's business model as they have it set forth? You don't have to. There are certain pay to play sites I'm not on because I don't agree or want to participate in that company's business model. It really then becomes a business decision for me and for my business how can I best position myself to win? And if it means that I'm going to be signed to a particular agent or on certain rosters or pay-to-play sites or those kind of things, it really becomes a question for me of like, how do I want to position myself to have my business do the best that it possibly can? And that's going to change. It might change that I change to a different tier at a pay-to-play site or I just no longer use that one at all. 

09:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Business models change and that I have seen evolve through the years, because back in oh gosh, I want to say about 2006, that's when I joined my first pay-to-play, which was Voice 123. They have since evolved and grown and changed their business model to now have levels. But in the beginning it used to just be one level and you would set up your profile and based on that profile and the things that you selected in that profile, you would get opportunities for the auditions and you would get those jobs. There was no other than that one feed that they collected for the membership. They didn't collect any additional monies for that. And then I would say, maybe a couple of years later, another one. And well, I should say Voice123 was the first like official voiceover pay to play. 

10:21 Prior to that there was like Freelancer you know, Odesk, and those were just freelance type jobs that everybody would just bid on. And actually at that point there was a particular fee which was called an escrow fee, right, that you would pay the company if you wanted to make sure that you got paid, because the biggest issue with freelance work or doing independent contract work, and especially when it's online, is not getting paid. And so as that evolved in the workplace or online, it became a big thing and so companies and this is even before Voice123 and Voicescom, but they started to offer a service called escrow service, where they would pay you and you would be assured that you would get paid and then you would pay them a fee for that and it was called an escrow fee. And so that was adopted early on by the freelance companies. And the thing about all the freelance companies is it became very popular right for freelancers to get work, and so this whole kind of what people today call the race to the bottom right underbidding that's how everybody got their work on a lot of those. And it just became this crazy kind of a model where you know you would bid on something and then somebody would come in and bid a lower price and get the job. And so it became this mindset where it was like, well, I guess if I bid lower I'll get the job. And I think that's what started with the pay-to-plays people talking about them as being bottom feeders right, because people would start to underbid. It was very similar to the model of freelance Odesk, all those models in the beginning. 

11:59 And then I think, after a few years and actually it was a few years because for a while Voicescom and Voice123 were the only two in the game and they competed with one another and they both had one level, and I remember Voice123, because they were out first, were always, I think, what people considered to be the standard, and they had a lot more memberships. And then I think Voicescom started kind of playing around with how they would offer jobs, and so they, if I remember in the very beginning, were the first ones. I don't believe Voice123 ever offered anything like an escrow service, but Voicescom started to offer you could pay escrow so that you can make sure that you got paid, and then you would pay them a certain percentage of the fee, and that was prior to any of their managed jobs of today, and so that was always a choice, so you could choose to take your chances and accept the job. And they were hands off, like if you got paid, you got paid, if you didn't, you didn't. They weren't really responsible. And then they offered the escrow, in which case they said we'll pay you and you can be assured you'll get your money. 

13:04 And then, ultimately, I think the competition started happening once more. Pay-to-plays came about, like Bodalgo, and there's a couple other ones, voice Over Planet, et cetera, et cetera, and then the whole thing began. And, of course, it's always a point of contention, with everybody out on the forums talking about is it fair, is it right for them to double dip or triple dip, especially with managed jobs? And, danielle, I'd love to hear your opinion on this Double dipping, triple dipping. What are your thoughts? Is it a thing, is it bad? Is it illegal? Is it good? What are your thoughts? 

13:37 - Danielle Famble (Guest) I mean, it's definitely a thing. I go back to my stance of this is the business model of the company that you are or are not choosing to do business with. If you don't agree with it, you don't have to participate in it. Like, for example, for me I am on Voice123. I'm not on Voicescom because I don't agree with their business model, so it is a thing. I don't agree with their business model, so it is a thing. 

14:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't know that it's illegal. 

14:04 - Danielle Famble (Guest) I mean, where are the laws saying that they can't do it? But if you don't agree with it, then you can just take yourself and your dollars out of the equation. And anyone who does agree with it or wants to use that platform for their business model, they're free to do it. And I think also for me platform for their business model they're free to do it. And I think also for me when I look at agents or managers or pay-to-plays, it really is. Is my business financially able to recoup the costs that I'm putting into, for example, the pay-to-play? Am I making enough money that the amount of money I'm spending, the tier that I'm on on voice one, two, three, for example is that a good return on my investment? I think that's the same thing for being with an agent, same thing for being on a pay to play site. 

14:49 Is this is a business expense? And does my business have the capacity to recoup the amount of money that I'm spending, because I look at all of these relationships as a cost of doing business? And what is the return on investment If I'm spending because I look at all of these relationships as a cost of doing business, and what is the return on investment. If I'm not booking enough and I'm not making enough money to cover the amount in commission that I'm paying, for example, then maybe I need to go and look at how do I get my business to a place where the ROI will be positive. So really you can agree with all these different businesses or not, but really the question is does your business have the ability to get a positive return on investment for the amount of money spent, because it is a business expense when you are working with these companies. 

15:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. And I think, bosses out there, the one thing to really think about is just mind your own business and make your own decisions on whether you want to work with other businesses, and you can certainly get online and contribute to all the all the discussion and all the hype. And is it double dipping? Is it triple dipping? Is it right? Is it wrong In reality? Like people get so like up in arms about the state of pay to plays but in reality, just okay, let them do their business. And you're right, I mean, I am not part of pay-to-plays because, well, some pay-to-plays because I don't agree with their business ethics. So when managed jobs came about with voices, that's when I think, really, everybody started to say that there was double and triple dipping. And I guess you can say that, but honestly, it's kind of like well, I'm not going to stress myself out over it, I'm just not going to use it if I don't agree with it. 

16:31 And managed jobs if you think about it and I want to talk to you about management companies too managed jobs is similar. You know, if you think Voicescom, they're charging a fee for your membership and then, in addition to that, if you decide to take a managed job. They're going to handle all the negotiation of the pricing, they're going to handle all the communication with the client, they're going to handle all of that stuff on behalf of the client, and so there is a fee for that. And of course, one of the big things was well, how much is that fee? But in reality, is there regulation on that? There really isn't yet. And so I mean, if you wanted to get into technicalities, have they done anything illegal, right, by charging a certain percentage for a management fee? No, not really. It's a business model. So if they decided to charge 50% management fee, well, that's their business model. And of course, that's a business model as long as we know about it. We can agree or not agree to it, right? 

17:18 And as long as we know about it, and I do believe that any company that I do business with and I'm pretty sure it's the same with you, danielle I want them to be transparent. 

17:28 And if I feel that a company or an organization has not been transparent with me. That's when I back off and I say you know what? I have a choice here. I mean, goodness gracious, I didn't get out of the corporate world so that I could continue to do things that I didn't want to do or invest in things that I didn't want to invest. I mean, this is why I am my own business, right, I make my decisions that are best for my business, and I can say you know what? I don't need to subscribe to that, I don't need to be a part of that model or have them as my client, and so it's as simple as that. 

17:58 I move on my merry way and I don't let it stress me out, but it's good to know from the get-go. If I feel like they're not being transparent, then there's not much they can do to win back my trust. I don't know, danielle, if you're the same way, but that's my personal take on things. If you lose my trust years ago, from the beginning, I don't know if you'll get me back. 

18:20 - Danielle Famble (Guest) I think it's also just about like really making sure that you are an informed consumer, because you are then the consumer and they are a business partner in a way. Yeah, so making sure that you are informed. If you aren't asking the questions that you need to ask, or don't partner with these people until you know the answers, also try it. Try it out and see if it works for you and if there is a positive ROI for trying it out or not. But for me, there are certain business partnerships that I just haven't entered into because I don't agree with the business model. Now they can change. My business model has changed. They can change their business model. I mean, we saw, like, the different changes that have happened with pay-to-plays over the last several years. But if you don't agree to it, there are so many other options. That's a great thing is that there's so many other options? 

19:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm so glad that you brought that up, that, yes, the business model can change, like our business models change too, and you're right. I'm glad you brought that up because it makes me think about when you talk about transparency in a company. Right, I had a personal relationship with certain members in the community that owned businesses that I did business with, and so I think you're absolutely right. When it comes business to business, that's completely separate from, let's say, a personal relationship and maybe that trust issue that I might have had like. Are they ethical? Are they running their company ethically? And do I believe that they're telling me? 

19:42 There's a lot of businesses out there that you know they make promises, and it's one of those things that I think you have to really sit down and do believe. 

19:51 We're going to do this, we're going to change our business model, and so is it something that you believe that the company has integrity, that they have morals and ethics and that, again, is probably another podcast episode, but that can have everything to do with. But the fact is is that many of the companies and the vendors that we work with have business models and we choose whether or not to partner with them. So that brings me to you know, speaking of managed jobs, right, what about managers? And I will tell you right now, I do not work with a manager right now, because the majority of my work is on the non-broadcast side and I've always been very adept at getting my own work, and so I've not really felt like I've needed or maybe ever thought a manager would be something that would help my business, although I certainly don't discount it. But I know that you work with a manager, so let's talk about the financial aspect of management. 

20:44 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, so, like you said, I do work with a management company and it's a different business model than agents, like we talked about in the beginning of this episode. So, agents the job that they have booked you on and they negotiate on your behalf they're getting a percentage or a commission from that job With management companies and it really depends on which management company you're working with. But I'll just make a general statement. Really, what they're wanting, that business model is more like managing your career, and they are getting a percentage of your entire book of business, as in everything that you have booked, with or without them actually being the ones who have negotiated it or presented that opportunity to you. And there's a financial implication to that as well, because for me, I look at what is my book of business outside of this relationship with this management company. 

21:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So anything that I get on my own anything that I get through my agents. 

21:40 - Danielle Famble (Guest) What does that look like and am I willing to participate in the relationship with a management company and is the return on that investment high enough and positive so that I can continue doing what I'm doing and having the robust business that I'm hoping to have For me, having the robust business that I'm hoping to have For me? I look at that from a financial aspect every single month and I am detailed with it because this is it's a business relationship, and is it worth it to me to have the access to the opportunities from this management company, along with the other things that I'm getting with having the relationship with them, getting to speak to people who are incredibly knowledgeable, asking questions about things that I don't know Like? Is that relationship worth the amount of money spent on this commission of my entire book of business? 

22:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure, I was just going to say I think there might be some confusion as to what the responsibilities of a management company are, right, do they take you by the hand you personally, danielle and say okay, here, we think you should work with this agency or we're going to get you job? I imagine that management companies, like overall, have a scope. Or does each management company operate differently, like, do you get personalized attention? Are they taking you by the hand and saying here, danielle, I think you should do this and we're going to give you all these opportunities in this genre, et cetera? 

23:01 - Danielle Famble (Guest) I think for me my mindset with working with a management company, working with an agent at the end of the day I look at it sort of like a pyramid or tiered. I am running the business, I am minding the business that pays me, I am running this business, and so I look at this as relationships, not necessarily that I'm abdicating my responsibilities of running the business that pays me to somebody else and they can sort of take me by the hand and deal with it. Personally, I don't feel that that is the business model that I am trying to run for myself. So I think for me it's more about what are the relationships that can be made through the connection of being with this management company not here. 

23:47 Just what are they? 

23:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) doing for you? Yeah, exactly. 

23:50 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Wherever you send me, I will go. It's a partnership and for me, I believe that the way that I can best create the business that I'm trying to create is to partner with people who are much more knowledgeable about certain genres or connections than I am. But I am a working participant in that relationship and not allowing someone to sort of take me wherever I need to go. 

24:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's kind of like outsourcing. There's so many ways in which it's similar. It's like outsourcing because you want to be afforded opportunities that you may or may not be able to get on your own. 

24:24 And that's the fee that you are paying them. I know a lot of people are like but how are they different from an agency? Well, an agency is one agency that has relationships with clients, right? Or has relationships. Maybe not relationships, but they establish relationships with clients to get job opportunities to then pass on to you. Management companies don't necessarily get specific custom, I would say, opportunities just for you, but they also develop relationships and have opportunities. That would be, I would say, a more broad spectrum than just one agent, right, it could be multiple agents, it could be multiple business relationships and those are the opportunities you are, quote unquote, paying a service fee for. 

25:11 - Danielle Famble (Guest) And hopefully the idea is that they can coexist and work together, so like the agent model can coexist and work with the management model, so that it's not necessarily a replication, it's almost the Venn diagram of it all, and so there really should be sort of not necessarily just overlap, but an expansion of well, this is what the agent does, and these are the jobs that I get through my agency, and this is what the management company does, and these are the type of jobs that I get through the management company, and also I'm my own business too, so these are the jobs that I'm negotiating for myself and finding through pay to plays or through SEO, or through just the auditions that I have, or my own marketing word of mouth, those kinds of things. And so the idea is that all of these things are working together and you are utilizing the business relationships for each business that you choose to partner with, and at that point then you've built, hopefully, this robust business that isn't dependent on just one business model or one relationship. 

26:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you just narrowed it down to just relationships, because in reality there's a lot of people that would say like, well, I did all the work in getting that job, why should I pay someone? Why should I do? And in reality it's really all about the relationship right. The better you can work with as a partner and the more income that you can bring to them, the more they're going to try to bring to you, and I think that relationship is a cycle One feeds the other, and I like that. 

26:40 - Danielle Famble (Guest) You just said work with them, because a lot of people, I think sometimes, especially when you're wanting to get any sort of representation, agent, management what have you? It's like you're working for them, you're doing things for them, or they should do something for you, exactly. And this is a it's got to be a partnership. Do something for you, Exactly, and this is a it's got to be a partnership. 

26:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely yeah. Whether you're talking manager, you're talking agent, maybe, I don't know, pay to plays I'm not sure. If you call that, I mean a partnership. 

27:11 - Danielle Famble (Guest) really, I don't know if you call it a partnership exactly. I think it's a tool, it can be a resource, for sure. 

27:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, but I would definitely consider agents and managers to be relationship partnership. Pay-to-plays are a slightly different model where I wouldn't say it's as customized. It's about as customized as it can get by the algorithm that gets you the opportunities. 

27:28 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah and again, all of this is really about the business expense of it all, because all of this costs money. So if your business is not in a place where this expense is bringing you a positive ROI, I would go back to training making sure your demos are up to date, making sure that you are the person who's going to be able to book those jobs, so that you would be able to pay these commissions and everything else. Because this really is about is the work coming? Are you able to book those jobs that you can make the money? 

28:00 to pay the commission to all those things Exactly. 

28:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And it's funny because I was thinking about that, as it's kind of the beginning of the month and I have to pay my VAs. You know, it's kind of like every month, boom, I pay them, I pay them, I pay them, and it's like this expense that I've gotten used to where it's like, oh okay, there's my outgoing expenses, I do it every month. And the funny thing is is like I think about myself, you know, 20, some odd years ago, when it would be like, oh my God, I can't afford to put this kind of money out every month for an assistant. And the funny thing is is I do it without blinking right now. You know I pay my assistants on a monthly basis and boom, and immediately it just and so I've got that. I don't know. I've got that cycle going where I'm getting a return on my investment and so I have the money to be able to use that as an expense every month. 

28:44 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Absolutely. I was actually thinking the same thing because I very recently paid my assistant. It's like automation yeah exactly, and it's one of those things where I think about and I'm constantly I mean I'm so tuned into the financials of my business to the point that we're actually remaking our back-end system. 

29:03 We use a completely separate back-end system like a CRM system, and one of the things that was most important to me is that the reporting was dialed in, because I want to know how much is coming in and all of that is coming from work that has been booked from me, my relationships with the agents, managers, my own clients, all of those things it has to have a positive ROI for me to be able to keep this business running, yeah yeah, good stuff. 

29:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh my gosh, I feel like we could have five episodes on that. Yeah, all right. Well, thank you so much, danielle. I cannot wait to talk to you on our next podcast. In the meantime, big shout out for All right. Well, thank you so much, danielle. I cannot wait to talk to you on our next podcast. In the meantime, big shout out for our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and make money like bosses like Danielle and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and look at that ROI, and we will see you next week. 

29:55 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Have a good one everyone Bye, bye. 

29:58 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

 

Christy Harst, founder of Building Doors VO, joins BOSS Anne Ganguzza to share her journey from an aspiring journalist to a champion for gender diversity in voiceover. Her story highlights the importance of perseverance, self-belief, and the power of engaging in collaborations with industry talents. In a bold step to challenge industry norms, Christy leads Building Doors VO, a campaign to amplify female voices in traditionally male-dominated fields, such as sports promos. The BOSSes highlight the importance of community support and the ongoing fight for gender equality in voiceover.   https://www.voboss.com/special-guest-christy-harst

00:01 - Testimonial (Ad) Hey, Anne, just wanted to let you know that I got a chance to listen to the entire podcast with Pilar, part one and two Fantastic interview. Found her very interesting and really enjoyed the entire thing. Thanks so much for the Boss podcast. 

00:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, are you new to VoiceOver and not sure where to start? Join the VOPeeps VIPeeps membership and get access to over 350 hours of pre-recorded classes, a 15% discount on all VO Peeps, guest workshops and free monthly workouts. This membership is perfect for those wanting to get started in the industry. Find out more at vopeepscom slash join-now. 

00:47 - Intro (Ad) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

01:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am privileged and honored to have special guest voiceover actor and the creator of the Building Doors campaign, Christy Harst Yay. 

01:22 - Christy Harst (Guest) Thank you very much for having me. I appreciate the opportunity. 

01:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, Christy, I'm so excited. I feel like we're soul sisters here. 

01:32 - Christy Harst (Guest) You have better makeup, but yes, Well. 

01:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'll tell you what. It is wonderful to have you on the show because you're doing amazing things and I want the bosses to know about them. So for those bosses that don't know who you are, let's kind of start at the beginning. Talk to us a little bit about your career. You've been in this industry for quite a while, so tell us a little bit about how you got started. 

01:54 - Christy Harst (Guest) Sure, thank you. I appreciate that. I majored in broadcast communications and I was supposed to be the next Barbara Walters in case you didn't get the facts in the 80s, it turns out that after an internship at MTV, I saw what women had to do and who they had to be to be at the top and it wasn't something I was willing to do. 

02:12 So I pivoted, if you will, and had a career a traditional nine to five career, if you will, in marketing, pr and event planning, la-di-da-di. And I always felt this pull and this tug when I would listen to the radio and I would hear these people and I would say, oh. 

02:28 - Intro (Ad) God. 

02:28 - Christy Harst (Guest) I can do it so much better than them. Oh my God, it's so painful. And so one year I made a New Year's resolution to get an agent and I did and I didn't get one audition. So the next year I said, well, forget them, I'm going to go get another one. And I got another one. And I was with that agent for 17 years. I booked national campaigns, I did a lot of on-camera. 

02:49 That was BC before children, and once my husband and I decided to have kids, we decided to build a studio in the house in the basement and I booked national campaigns from there as well. And now I'm on the first level of the house with a studio brick, so I feel like I'm no longer a basement troll. 

03:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There's something to be said for those basement studios though. I mean I had one. I mean we don't have basements here in California and they make great studios they do, that's for sure. 

03:15 - Christy Harst (Guest) No, they do, they do, and mine was very makeshift. 

03:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But hey, I did it. I mean, I'm just saying that was the only noise really when that went on. 

03:26 - Christy Harst (Guest) I always used to have to run and manually turn off the HVAC, go and do work and then go run and my kids would be like it's so cold, it's so cold, I'm like I'm not done, recording I'm not done. And then, most recently I would say in the last five years actually, five years ago I went to my first voiceover conference and it was in Columbus, ohio, and it was something called the Mid-American or Mid-something and I knew no one. I knew absolutely no one and I ended up there meeting. Listen to all the heavyweights that were there and I had no clue. So Roy Yolkerson was there, joe Cipriano was there, mark Scott was there it was his first conference ever that he was teaching a class Rodney Salisbury was there, jmc was there, all these people and I had no idea. I had no idea who any of these people were. 

04:16 So I was late getting to some of the breakout sessions and there weren't that many left to pick from and the only one that was left was Joe Cipriano's promo class. I didn't even know what promo was and I was like, oh gosh, fine, I'll go into this one. There was only me and like three other people and AJ McKay was in there running it and I went up and did it and I was hooked. I was like you mean, I can say five words and each word is like a different story. And I'm done, I'm done, that's it. I love it, because I don't do audiobooks. I'm not a marathon runner. 

04:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I am a sprinter Right. 

04:54 - Christy Harst (Guest) Yeah, absolutely. And so from that point forward I was kind of like, oh, I really think I could do this, and so I ended up working with Joe. We flew to New York. I'm in Cleveland, Ohio, but we flew to New York and recorded a demo for Network Promo and Joe is wonderful. Oh my gosh, he's amazing. He really is. He's so gracious. He's a wonderful teacher. 

05:13 - Intro (Ad) And. 

05:13 - Christy Harst (Guest) I learned a lot from him. Absolutely and it ended up being nominated for a SOVA and I was the only woman in the category. I lost to Dave Fennoy. But again, if you're going to lose to somebody, that's right Lose to Dave Fennoy, right? 

05:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, absolutely. 

05:34 - Christy Harst (Guest) Who is also an amazing human being. And then after that I started to try and explore promo and so on and so forth. And I am a former college athlete, I am a former head varsity coach, my kids are both terribly athletic and my bank account shows it, and we're a sporting family. We choose to go to sporting events for almost like our staycations. So I said why don't I do sports promo, like that's a perfect way to match my passion and my ability and my talent? And for a good three, four years I invested in training, I invested in workshops, I invested in demos and it wasn't getting me anywhere and I just was getting really frustrated. 

06:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So why do you think you did all the things right? You did all the things right, you got your training, and you trained with some of the best. You got your demos, and so what do you think was the issue? What was not happening, and see, that's the fun part. 

06:25 - Christy Harst (Guest) That's where Building Doors, a campaign that I started, really was birthed, because I didn't know. I was doing everything that everyone told me to do. Sure, I was doing out-of-box marketing. I was creating fan videos where I voiced them, I wrote them, I created them. I was doing all of the things that you're supposed to do Email marketing, cold calling, all of the things, and nothing was moving the needle. All of the hard things. 

06:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All of the hard things, yeah, but you know I enjoyed it. And yeah, I was going to say, and something tells me that you did it with full force. Oh yeah, Not even like 100%. I feel like you did 150 to 200%. I just get that about you. 

07:00 - Christy Harst (Guest) Yeah, well, you know, when I sink my teeth into something, I don't let go. 

07:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm right there with you. I feel that. 

07:05 - Christy Harst (Guest) Why not Like? Why, If you're going? 

07:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) to do it, do it all the way. 

07:08 - Christy Harst (Guest) And so I had signed up for a promo workshop with a prominent promo LA agent, a woman, and during that workshop I did a read for her and she was like, yeah, book, it's great book. 

07:19 And I was like you know what? Okay, stop, I'm not booked. I'm never booked and I'm not repped by one of the larger agencies, so the access to those opportunities are even smaller. So what are my chances? What are my chances in booking sports promo? And she was very honest. And she said not so much. And I said why it was interesting because my whole body just slumped and there were people in the room, in the Zoom room, were like Christy, no, don't slump, it's okay. No, no, no. And she said it's not for a lack of women trying to create opportunities for women in these niche spaces. These opportunities that are created by women climb and climb and climb up the ladder of decision making and when it reaches the C-suite to a middle-aged man, they say love the concept, not the voice. We're putting a man on it, sure, and she said I encourage you to make your own noise. And so I got off the workshop and I was like but I am making my own noise, I am doing out-of-the-box marketing, I am creating videos for specific teams, I want to voice for I am working my LinkedIn connection, I'm doing everything I possibly can. 

08:36 Went to bed, woke up the next morning called Brandon Miller, who is the VO craftsman, and I just went off. Is the VO craftsman and I just went off. Brandon, can you believe what she said to me? What am I supposed to do? I'm so upset. What am I supposed to do? You mean to tell me that just because I'm a woman, that I'm not getting access to these opportunities on my own? That's nuts. So I went to walk the dog. I came back and I called him and I said here's what we're going to do. We are going to get women, other female voice actors and I'm going to partner with women around the world and we are going to revoice scripts originally voiced by men in male-centric genres like construction, like alcohol, like tech, like sports, like automobiles, and we are going to show through these reels that not only are women good at it, but also brands are not going to miss anything from it. 

09:25 You know those C-suite men who are saying, oh no, well, why? Because women statistically have anywhere it depends on the globe or United States but anywhere between 60 and 80 percent of the purchasing power in their homes. They make the decisions about what money is spent and where, whether you get season tickets, whether you get swag when you go to a game. What kind of camps your kids go to, what kind everything right. So women have the purchasing power. Number one. Number two women don't want a wine night with pink logoed hats anymore at games. That's not what they want. Women are sports fans. Women are carpenters. 

10:02 Women are tech driven, so why are we using men as the messaging? And the more and more and I dug into this, the more it spurred me to keep going. Because here's why, for example, the voice of Sondi I know Sondi, yeah, yeah, sondi, okay, gorgeous voice. She chose to do a spot for Lowe's. So in researching every spot, every reel, I want to have it based in data. So I was doing research and I stumbled upon a study that Lowe's had conducted because they wanted to differentiate themselves from Home Depot. What they knew was that Home Depot was a spot that contractors went to. Typically, men are the contractors. Home Depot is poorly lit, it's messy, there are limited displays and the aisles are super tight. So because Lowe's recognizes that women have the highest purchasing power, they decided to make their stores well-lit really wide aisles, everything is bright and colorful. And then they have these huge displays that show you how you can use the products and what you can create. Yet they rarely use a woman on their branded campaigns for TV and radio Rarely. 

11:15 We're missing something here, right, if you had all that money to do a study and you put all that attention into gearing your stores towards women because you know that they have the highest purchasing power. Why aren't you using more women in front of and behind the camera? Sure? 

11:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, it doesn't make sense, right, comes down to who are those decision makers, right? Who are the decision makers that are selecting the voices, which is, as you mentioned prior, a lot of times and this also happens when we audition, right? I mean, why is it that when we audition, we're told casting specs to be conversational and talking to your best friend and then, ultimately, when it airs, we possibly hear something that sounds like the old announcer-y thing? Well, could be that an older person that was doing the directing or that finally made that choice, made that choice. 

12:04 And so I think it really depends on who's making the choice for the voice talent. And I get you in terms of being in male-dominated fields. I've kind of myself have been an engineer back in the late 80s, I worked in technology for about 20 years. I'm a female demo producer, and so I've been treading that line the whole time. So I really feel that a campaign that can bring awareness right, so it's not just maybe the one person making that decision, but they can bring awareness to the world or the companies. I think that that is a really wonderful way to get things going and actually building doors and breaking the glass ceiling for women. 

12:47 - Christy Harst (Guest) Yeah, and you know that day after I walked my dog, I was like, well, everyone uses these terms like go kick down the door, go knock on the door, and what I realized is that there's no door for me to knock on. So I have to build it and I'm going to bring a bunch of other women with me. I love it. 

13:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, let's talk about the Building Doors campaign. When did you start? 

13:08 - Christy Harst (Guest) March 1st of 2024. So it's been 10 months. 

13:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Okay, and what did you do to start building that? What was required for you to do that? A website, a domain. 

13:20 - Christy Harst (Guest) No, no, I didn't even have. I had nothing. It was February 9th or 10th and I was like this is what's going to happen, I'm going to do it. And I remember there was a moment I was sitting on my couch and I said to myself if you're going to do it, you have to do it now, but if you're not going to do it, just don't, because it's going to take a lot of work and you have less than two and a half weeks to launch this on March 1st, for in honor of Women's History Month, and I was like, all right, fine, it's done. 

13:44 And I started calling all the women that I knew. Then I started researching women online and on Instagram and at first I just used my social media, so I didn't have time to create a page Like it wouldn't have had the impact right. So I launched it on my Instagram, on YouTube, on Facebook, on LinkedIn and on TikTok and I was literally going to do one post. Then one post turned into a month. All right, fine, I'll do a month. And then something happened. People actually watched it, people actually commented and people actually shared, and they shared it to the point where a woman got a job from it, and I think that that shows the power of community when you all unite under a shared mission. 

14:26 So Ashley Tirado is a voice actor who did a spot for Honda Sport. She voiced it and about three or four months later she called me and said she doesn't know who, but somebody forwarded or shared this reel. Someone saw it, forwarded it to an ad agency in Florida. That Florida agency reached out to Ashley and hired her to do a slew of Honda spots. Building doors at that point had created an opportunity that otherwise didn't exist for a woman in voiceover in a male-centric lane, and that was like recreational drugs for me. I was like, yes, I'm hooked. 

14:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, I'm hooked. I also do automotive, but I'll tell you what it's been a hard climb in automotive as well. I do not get the amount of automotive that I know my male counterparts do, so it's kind of like I feel like when they want a novelty, when they want a novelty, they want something just a little bit different, they're going to hire the woman, but more than not. I'm hearing those campaigns either. The campaign that I had was taken over by a male voice. So, yeah, it is something that I feel like as a female wanting to have the same opportunities. It's hard, it really is, and you do have to build doors. And so now, after I would say 10 months, what happened after that? Because you bought the domain, do you have a website? 

15:46 - Christy Harst (Guest) I do, and you know why? Because there was a woman. I have a lot of Zoom calls. 

15:50 I spend a lot of my time trying to get to brands, talk to brands, talking to all these different people, and a lot of my time trying to get to brands, talk to brands, talking to all these different people, and a lot of the brands I've talked to I haven't publicly shared because I'm not ready to yet, but there was a woman who was the former head legal for a major, major major sports an American sports company, if you will, or brand and she said listen, I can totally hook you up with the top people because your message deserves to be heard there. However, I can't do it unless you have a website. And I had been dragging my feet and I was like, well, there's an investment there, yeah, so, yeah, I mean I get that. 

16:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I have multiple websites, so I know, yeah, yeah, and that is probably coming out of your pocket. It did. 

16:32 - Christy Harst (Guest) Yeah, it did, and that's when things started to get really serious. Because I invested in the website, I created it on my own in Wix over a weekend. Fronk his last name, I think, is Fronk he helped me yeah, Jim Jim Fronk. 

16:44 Yep, he helped me work through some things. He was wonderful, and so now we have a website. And I mentioned, oh my gosh, the Veal Craftsman, Brandon Miller. He does all the videos for free for me, so he volunteered to do all of the reels for me for free, which is amazing, right? That's fabulous. Yeah, and so I've had some really great conversations with brands like Valvoline, the Cleveland Guardians, the Cleveland Cavs, and I will say that I didn't realize and I want to say this to everyone listening, that is, in voice, acting who's putting stuff out on social media. People, see you, they may never like it. 

17:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They may never, comment they may 

17:20 - Christy Harst (Guest) never, share it, but they see you, they're watching you, because the person from the Cavs reached out to me. A middle-aged white man reached out to me and said I've been watching you, I've been watching the campaign and I want to put you in a room full of decision-makers across four different athletic associations Nice, so who would have ever guessed that? Right yeah? 

17:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Who would have ever guessed that Now do you have a separate social media channel for Building Doors? 

17:47 - Christy Harst (Guest) We just started it. It is at BuildingDoorsVO, on Instagram and LinkedIn. We are only doing Instagram and LinkedIn because, after a data analysis, I discovered that those are the platforms with the highest engagement and reach. On LinkedIn, our number one post is sitting at 90K impressions Nice and our highest post on Instagram has something crazy like 12 viewing hours and it's a 20-second clip. 

18:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now, what is it that you are promoting on the social channels? Are you creating videos with females voicing traditionally yeah, male promo roles. What are you presenting as content? 

18:24 - Christy Harst (Guest) I'm so excited for 2025 because not only are we going to be featuring women one per month, they're the door builders that are going to be reading scripts previously voiced by men and male-centric genres but we're also going to be doing a lot of other cool stuff. 

18:37 Like, we are going to do a LinkedIn Live and an Instagram Live series. I'd like to do one on LinkedIn a month and one on Instagram a month, but we'll see and they are going to imagine this. It's a panel discussion that is all based under the mission of Building Doors, which is equality, equal opportunity, but it'll include people who support the campaign. So, for example, let's say, the panel consists of a copywriter, a voiceover actor, a graphic designer and then maybe a casting director who knows right, and they're all talking about an issue that not only can be of service to the voiceover community they can learn from, but also highlights our supporters and highlights people who have a service that voice actors could potentially hire from. You know, forming community right now in 2025, is essential, I think, especially in our country, so that people know where to go to communicate, to connect and to know where to put their money so they can support like-minded people. 

19:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Fabulous, that's fantastic, and so right now you have your socials all set. 

19:40 - Christy Harst (Guest) So we've been live on social for about a month or two months, okay, and Instagram is slowly climbing. Our LinkedIn page needs some more followers, right? So at Building Doors VO, I am currently well, it's a holiday so I'm not posting as much but starting in January, yes, there is going to be more women reading reels. Hopefully, those LinkedIn and Instagram lives will be up and running in January. And also, you know, I'm going to be featuring supporters, so people who support us. I feature them in image and help share their story. For example, I have featured an award-winning UK digital marketing agency a. 

20:14 Afro-Indigenous puppeteer and comedian, so I'll be featuring those people as well. 

20:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm looking at buildingdoorsvo.com right now and you have an amazing roster of ladies there. 

20:27 - Christy Harst (Guest) Well, I appreciate you saying that, because how do I get? 

20:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) involved. Hey, this is fantastic. You've got quite a few. That's amazing, Like at least 32 that I'm counting right now. 

20:38 - Christy Harst (Guest) Yeah, and there'll be 44 at the end of it. 

20:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's it. 

20:40 - Christy Harst (Guest) I would like to point out that we are not a talent agency, we are not a brand manager, we are not a casting site. When I talk to a brand, one of the things I ask them is that would you be willing to the next time you need a female voice actor, would you be willing to consider a door builder? And they usually say yes and then they can go to the website and they go and reach out to that person directly. I'm not in it, right. So then they can take that to their agent and everybody wins, I think. 

21:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And then if the door builder gets booked. 

21:11 - Christy Harst (Guest) I ask if I can share it as a success story. And for example, natasha. Natasha just got booked from her reel. She did a reel where she was reading something for the Oscars. Someone saw it on LinkedIn, reached out and said hey, will you do my podcast intro and outro? And so she got that job. She did it, and getting work for people who are featured is a great cherry on top, but it's not necessarily what is meant for the campaign, right? Because we're not a casting site, we're not a talent agent right. 

21:39 We want to show that women can do this. They should have the access to the opportunities to do it, and if you choose one of these women, great. But if not, at least we've planted the seed that, yeah, a woman can voice a UFC spot. Sure. A woman can do a wealth management spot or a tech spot. 

21:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now, how are you working on funding? Are you thinking, what are your thoughts about getting additional funding? Because I know, simply because I have multiple domains, this is not something out of your own pocket. Owning the domain, you've got to pay for that. You've got to pay for the website, you've got to pay for the hosting of the website. Ultimately, you've got a domain. Maybe you're going to send email from it, so then you're going to need an email server. I mean, there's just a bunch of stuff Having the social media channels and you're also a working voice actor, so you're donating a lot of your time and I know that you recently have some women that are now on board to help you in the Building Doors campaign. But what are you thinking about in terms of funding? 

22:34 - Christy Harst (Guest) I need funding, yeah. 

22:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Are you going to create, maybe, a scholarship or become like a nonprofit? What's going to happen so? 

22:45 - Christy Harst (Guest) I think and this is probably not going to be a popular opinion, but I think that people or groups that advocate for a mission or a cause, they can earn money too. It's okay. It's okay. And no, we're not going to be a nonprofit. I have no desire to run a nonprofit. I worked for nonprofits for years in my nine to five career and I know what the mentality is. I know the paperwork. It's just not something I desire to. We are a for-profit. We are an LLC under CEH Productions, which is my LLC, and I am so blessed to have the ambassadors. These are women that did pay a certain amount to be in the campaign and they get access to make decisions about the campaign and while that money is great, it's not. 

23:32 I'm not earning any money is what I'm saying, Like the funds that I've collected to date help cover the cost of the initial investment that I've made and help cover the cost of the website in the future, but I'm definitely not earning any money. So I've been applying for grants for female small business owners. I am open to other ideas and I'm going to be honest with you, anne, it's something that I'm really struggling with right now and trying to figure out, because if this mission is going to have the impact that I want it to have and if I want to do the ideas that I think are necessary for this brand, I need money, and you know I can't continue at the pace that I am, as just me, right, and I do have some help with some of the ambassadors Amy, selma and Sandi. 

24:14 They've been so great to me and the ambassadors in general have been really great about picking up some of the stuff that I can't. But if I had it my way, I'd hire a social media manager today. I'd hire a personal assistant today, I'd hire someone to do the books today. And, for example, I've been fortunate enough. I'm going to be going to the WESPN conference in May in New York. 

24:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I have been encouraged to go there to make face-to-face connections, Absolutely, I mean, that's a cost as well. I mean well. 

24:42 - Christy Harst (Guest) I'd like to say that such a voice is paying for my ticket. Well, okay, they're paying for the ticket for me to go, but I still need to find funding for airfare and ground transportation. So that takes time. Right, finding sponsors to take you somewhere where you know you could make the biggest difference and the biggest impact that takes time. 

25:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, absolutely Well, you're certainly building doors, and I completely, completely get that. I mean, you're starting from the ground up, and so there's a lot of work involved, there's a lot of questions, there's a lot of navigating, trying things out. Back in the day, I like to say that I pioneered the hybrid workout, which was online and live at the same time. Back in the early days, when there was no streaming live on the internet before Zoom was a thing, I had some technological experience so I started doing that. So there's no clear path, and so to me, that defines a boss, and I love interviewing people who really exemplify and showcase bossness. 

25:44 - Christy Harst (Guest) Wow. 

25:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thank you, yeah, so I mean really congratulations. What you've done is the start of something truly amazing. And if there's any way that VO Boss can help you out. We're here to help you spread the message far and wide. How can bosses get in touch with you, christy, if they want to know more, if they want to contribute? 

26:01 - Christy Harst (Guest) Yes, so definitely follow us at at Building Doors VO on Instagram and LinkedIn. I also want to give a quick plug that I'm doing an impact study and those links are on those channels as well. If you could fill out the impact study, that would be great. And also, you're more than welcome to email me. You're more than welcome to message me on any of the social media platforms. If you are interested in offering services in exchange for something or if you'd like to donate, by all means, yeah, let me know. Christy at christyhearthcom. 

26:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, and we'll be putting all of your links on our show notes page. Bosses out there, Christy, I want to meet back up with you in six months in a year? 

26:38 - Christy Harst (Guest) Oh, that would be amazing. 

26:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Let's talk about how has it progressed, of course. I mean I'm going to be following you from now on and bosses out there, make sure that you follow Christy, and we will be in touch, and I'd like to have a follow-up interview with you for sure. 

26:51 - Christy Harst (Guest) Oh, I'd love it. 

26:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Because I see great things. I see great things happening. I got good vibes, so I always like to say that I'm a little bit intuitive here. So good stuff, christy. I'm so glad that we got the opportunity to talk and that VO Boss can help spread the word about the Building Doors campaign. You're amazing and thank you so much. Thank you. 

27:09 - Christy Harst (Guest) Thank you for having me on, I appreciate it. 

27:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Bosses, big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses, like Christy and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses have an amazing week. Make sure you go and check out buildingdoorscom and check out Christy and follow her on socials and we will see you next week. Bye. 

27:32 - Intro (Ad) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

 

In this insightful episode of the Real BOSSES series, Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere delve into the unpredictable landscape of social media and its implications for entrepreneurs. As platforms like Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok face increasing political and operational challenges and changes, The BOSSES discuss the importance of adapting business strategies to ensure continued success. They share actionable insights on how to diversify marketing efforts and build resilient communities, emphasizing the significance of maintaining control over one’s audience through robust mailing lists and finding alternate platforms. 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Let's create your next demo together. As an award-winning demo producer, I'll work closely with you to craft a demo reel that showcases your unique talents and strengths. My personalized approach is going to ensure that your demo stands out from the crowd and gets you booked. Book a free 20-minute consult today and get started at anneganguzza.com. 

00:28 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Hey, hey, everyone. 

00:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Welcome to the VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Real Boss series. I'm here with my good friend, Tom Dheere. Hey, Tom, how are you? 

00:55 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I am good, how are you? 

00:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm doing good, but I'll tell you what. Social media is kind of a mess lately, isn't it? 

01:04 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Oh my God, yeah it, oh my God, yeah. Oh my God, to say the least, it has been insane the past couple of weeks. 

01:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, TikTok shutting down people fleeing off platforms. It's been insane and I think something that, as business owners, we've used for years right to promote our businesses is now somewhat becoming unstable and unpredictable, and I think we should chat about this. What can we do to kind of counteract? 

01:31 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) that that's a great question. Well, I will say that literally this morning on Facebook, I saw two friends of mine who run Facebook voiceover groups who basically posted the same exact post, which was we know a lot of you are leaving Facebook right now. It's gotten very politically charged, it's gotten very toxic. You've all mentioned that how your feeds are changing and it's just getting really, really weird. And they both did the same thing in that they said we will continue to be loving and supporting of all voice actors, regardless of your affiliation, regardless of what's going on in the outside world. And there was a chorus of support and concern at the same time. 

02:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I think the community that we feel that we've established on these platforms is, and now the platforms are unstable or toxic. And so now our community because we work independently and our community has been online for all these years and now, all of a sudden, it's just become a place where maybe not everybody wants to hang out anymore. 

02:28 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, there's four platforms which everybody seems to be sharing the most concern about Facebook, instagram, because those are both owned by the same company Meta Twitter, now known as X, which has been a point of concern for a couple of years now, since it was purchased. As X, which has been a point of concern for a couple of years now since it was purchased, and, like you just said, tiktok, because of the concerns that have been expressed and the affiliation that it has and the fact that it went down for less than 24 hours and then it was rescued. 

02:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It was like a mass hysteria. Well, you know what else? It wasn't just TikTok, it was anything owned by TikTok, which I was aware, but I kind of forgot. I use CapCut, which is the video editing program, and I spent a considerable amount of time like learning it and all of a sudden my CapCut was gone and I'm like, oh no, I guess I need a new video app. 

03:15 It was kind of good in a way, so that we all could step back and say, all right, let's not put the proverbial all our eggs in one basket, like we've always been saying about pay-to-plays. Right, you don't want to put all of your eggs in one basket with pay-to-plays. That can't be your only way to make income, and social media may not be the only way that we can have community. So let's talk, tom, about how we might be able to incorporate community and also incorporate. Let's say how are we going to market to our potential clients? What can we do to create a sense of community? And I mean my first idea that comes to mind is let's go back to old school, right? Let's create a mailing list, right? That's something that we own. We're not dependent upon a social media platform that we don't own. We own our own lists. 

03:59 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, when it comes to that, both social media and curating lists of potential, current and past clients both fall in the bucket of self-marketing. Having a social media presence, creating a sense of community, trying to interact with clients potentially that's a form of indirect or passive marketing. And then curating lists of clients cold calls, cold emails, newsletters those are all forms of direct or active marketing strategies. So both of them have their merits. But to your point, if the four, at least the four social media platforms that we just talked about, are unstable on both a cultural view, political, socioeconomic, logistical and technological view, because one of them was taken down and then went back up and goodness knows how many millions of dollars was potentially lost by the TikTok users who monetize? Yeah, absolutely. 

04:54 So, this is creating uncertainty in the market, so looking for more stable practices is a very good idea. So, if you have been able to cultivate any relationships with any potential or current or past clients through social media platforms and I'm not just talking about Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and TikTok, which are the four that seem to be the most worrisome or in flux right now- Well, they're the largest. 

05:18 They are also, interestingly enough, the largest, and Facebook's been around since what? 2004? Tiktok's pretty new and Twitter's been around since around 2008,. 9, 10. And Instagram is a few years after that, so some of these have been around for quite some time. 

05:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, let's not forget about our old friend YouTube, which right now doesn't appear to be affected so much. 

05:37 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) YouTube seems to be relatively stable and actually YouTube has been growing quite steadily. 

05:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Youtube is the number one streaming platform. I think that that can be an option for people who are looking for community or trying to establish a community. I mean, really, what do you need to establish a community? There's community number one, just community for ourselves, right, because I need my colleagues. I need to be able to communicate with my colleagues and just kind of like just say hey, how's it going, or what are you doing, or just that kind of like at the water cooler sort of thing. And then we also need the community of where can we put ourselves out there, where can we promote and market our materials, if the online community is now threatened? 

06:17 I think, I mean, I know, for many years, you know, social media has always been quote unquote, free, right, always been free, and the Internet's been free. And now, all of a sudden, there's a potential to maybe it not being there or free, or we don't know really what's going to happen. So we need to come up with our plan B. I think it's always important that, as business owners, we have a plan B or we have an alternate plan, so that we're not throwing all our eggs in one basket, right? What can that be, tom? 

06:45 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) All right, so I have many answers. 

06:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I have many answers and ideas. 

06:48 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Me too. Okay. So because there's a difference between fostering or being part of a community of fellow voice actors on a social media platform and looking to network with potential clients. Yes, despite all the weird that's been going on, linkedin is still the number one social media platform to be connecting with and developing relationships with clients. 

07:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Except it's got spammy lately. 

07:12 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) It's gotten very spammy and I've seen a lot more politics on my LinkedIn feed. 

07:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, but still it's better. 

07:19 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) It's better. It may be a short-term consequence, it may re-stabilize I'm not sure, but LinkedIn is the number one source for that Twitter was a pretty good source for that too. 

07:29 Yes, because also everybody knows that LinkedIn is the professional social media platform, whereas Facebook is the social. It's literally called the social network. It's a social platform. You can be social on a professional platform and you can be professional on a social platform. But all of these different social media platforms were designed with a specific intent in mind. Instagram was all about photos, and now it turned into video as well to compete with everybody else, and then YouTube made shorts to compete with Instagram reels and they're all watered down and they can all do all of those things, but what the thrust of it is? 

08:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Before I forget, I do want to like throw in another social media platform that can generate community on a more professional level and that would be Substack. 

08:08 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, that's definitely one. 

08:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's kind of like here. If you want to sign up and subscribe to my newsletter on a professional basis, there is Substack and I think that might be gaining popularity as well. 

08:17 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Slack is another one that is gaining popularity. I have not ventured into Substack or Slack, but the one that I have been exploring lately when it comes to community is Discord. 

08:29 Yep, absolutely what's interesting about Discord is what separates it from all of the other social media platforms is it doesn't have a feed. It doesn't have this torrential river of content that you can doom scroll through. For those of you who aren't familiar with Discord, discord has what are called servers. Think of them as like Facebook groups, except that they are generally invite only, though many of them have a public invite where they publicly promote a link or a QR code where you can scan and then you can potentially get admitted into that Discord server. There's usually a number of questions that you need to answer and a code of conduct that you need to adhere to before you'll be admitted into that individual server, and there are a ton of voiceover-related Discord servers. Many of the voiceover groups that you find on Facebook and all of the organizations that you're familiar with in voiceover groups that you find on Facebook and all of the organizations that you're familiar with in voiceover circles, have a Discord server, and within those servers are little threads or sub-servers. 

09:33 Sub-threads yeah, Sub-threads where you can talk about whatever subject matter. 

09:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Then it becomes like the old school Usenet. Oh my God, I'm showing my age. Do you know what I mean? Because people post about topics. It's like a forum yeah it becomes like a forum which Usenet? Do you know Usenet? 

09:50 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Or am I even showing my age with you? Yeah, that was way back when I am showing my age with you. 

09:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's Usenet back in the day, oh my goodness, yeah. Topic-based. 

09:56 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Discord definitely has a. It's also got a bunch of emojis and badges and avatars and all these things that you can do with it. 

10:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I would say for communities. If you're looking for a community, feel that the Facebook groups if you don't want to be on Facebook anymore at all or you're disliking things about Facebook, in particular, discord for community, I think is a really good way to go. And I think people are just kind of waiting it out a little bit at this moment in time, because Facebook really was for many, many, many years. It was a great community gatherer, and so I think that people are just kind of sitting back, waiting and seeing, or they're fleeing. Some people are going over to Blue Sky, but then again people will say that that is also politically motivated, and so really it just becomes like where are you going to go and where are you going to find the groups? And I think it's one of these things, tom, that we have to just kind of wait and see a little bit. But I would say, professionally, if you want to create that community, start gathering your own mailing list of your current clients and get something going on your website that invites people to subscribe to your email list, and that way you will always have a way to professionally market to that list or communicate with that list. And then, when it comes to community, like colleague and that type of group, I have a wait and see. 

11:12 I've kind of have my accounts on all different platforms and I'm just going to join them all and see where I feel that people are kind of migrating to. I know that for me, I've done a lot of work creating groups. I have a VOPs group that has thousands of members. I have business pages on Facebook that have thousands of members and followers. In reality, I have to look at that and say, well, it's possible that my groups have been disbanded and in a way, this is a time where I feel like I can kind of clean up in a way and so things that have grown, maybe possibly stagnant over time, where maybe people are members but maybe they're not engaged members. You know, maybe it's time to really just sit back, take a look, see where things go and really try to engage a quality community right, not necessarily a quantity, remember before it was all like, oh my God, well, I have 90,000 people on my Facebook group, but are they all engaged? 

12:03 - Intro (Announcement) Yeah. 

12:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I think now's the time to really start building that community that know, like and trust you, and I feel like that's not just for sales, that's also for people that you interact with on a day-to-day basis. Like Tom, you and I like you're my know, like and trust and I would be like Tom, I want to be where you are so that we can continue our relationship right. So I feel like that's an important criteria for any group that I migrate to or that I create, and then it becomes a build process again. 

12:30 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, I agree. So, bosses, if you've been listening to what Anne's been saying, she's making two extremely important points. One is do not be dependent on any one social media platform for community or for establishing and maintaining relationships with clients. Those are two different things that you can do on all of these social media platforms and the advice of going through all of your social media platforms and keeping track of where all your potential, current and past clients are on all these social media platforms. Make sure that you have all their contact information and get them into your CRM, which is a VO boss conversation that we had very, very recently. 

13:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That was the acronym. Party the acronym party. So check out that episode. 

13:19 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Absolutely Use that CRM, because it's also a way to cultivate relationships with all of your clients. It's also a way to cultivate relationships with your fellow voice actors. There's nothing stopping you from sending out a newsletter to fellow voice actors, not to tell them about whatever voiceover you've done recently, which they may or may not be interested in, but just talk about concerns or topics of interest to you that may be of interest to them as well. You could also do that through blogging, because your blog posts can have different audiences. You can have blog posts where the audience is your voice seekers and you can have one where your audience is voice actors. To find another way to create a non-social media dependent community and culture. 

14:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think the vlog might be making a comeback. I mean, I think it was always a thing right. But I think a blog I mean I do a Teachable Moment every week and I do shorts every week those are videos that I put out to the community and that can also be part of my blog. There's a lot of those that are part of my blog as well, so people can subscribe to that blog and you can talk about whatever topic floats your boat, floats your passion, and I think that more of the social communities like TikTok and again, you know TikTok is up for now, but again, if you're using it to monetize or using it to try to really sell, just be careful that you're not putting all the eggs in one basket. And so I just say, if you've got good video content right, you can now maybe put that on multiple platforms, right, or the platforms that you feel are right to gain the audience that you want. So just know that your video it turns out to be stuff that you own. 

14:51 Stuff that you create is stuff that you own. So if you create videos, put them in a place where you have control over them. Put them on your website, put them in a blog, put them on YouTube if you have a YouTube channel. But if YouTube were to blow up tomorrow, you've got your own server, you've got your own web server that you can put your videos on, and so creating that content that is distinctly something that is owned by you gives you more semblance of control in regards to promoting your services, promoting your voice, promoting your product out there and also fostering a sense of community, even though it may not be engaging, but you can have people like subscribe to your blog, create comments, have engaging comments back and forth. 

15:29 And again, there's lots of different places. There's Zoom workspace, there's Slack. There's lots of places where you can have video meetups and create that community there as well, and that's something to think about is to have a Q&A or have a water cooler, like, basically, there's that Zoom water cooler, that's out there, and so how are you going to promote that community water cooler? Well, that can be through a list, a mailing list that you own, or you can continue to put posts out on social media, and again, it just don't depend on that social media to be your one and only way to communicate with your potential clients or your colleagues. 

16:05 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) There's also, if you remember, clubhouse and how popular that was during COVID, that became a real great place where a great sense of community that may come back. 

16:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) This is exactly why. 

16:15 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I'm bringing it up, anne is that Clubhouse may be a place to go back to, because there's no social media feed. There's really not much of a space for flaming trolling spamming. 

16:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Interesting thought there, because I've done a Thursday VIP room Voices in Podcasting room and we actually were thinking about going away from it, doing Zoom live streaming, zoom on Facebook, which is just another way of doing it. But you're right, clubhouse could be making a comeback. 

16:42 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well, video, and I'm sure the reason was you know as well as I do is that video has more of a potential for engagement on a human level and on an algorithmic level than pure audio or just photos or just text. 

16:55 So yeah, it makes a lot of sense to be on Zoom, but, like for voice actors, sure On Clubhouse. That seems like a really natural fit. There's one other social media platform that I wanted to mention, and that's Reddit. I've had a Reddit account for a few years now, but I just recently decided to start getting in there and seeing what's going on, and it has its level of weirdness, like any other. 

17:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Again like a Usenet. Sorry, I'm showing my age again. It's like it's a forum. 

17:24 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) It's got a forum Usenet kind of feel to it but like any subject matter, personal or professional, that you can think of is there and there's a group of dedicated and a lot of them very social and often supportive people that are talking about any given subject. 

17:42 So I've been spending a lot of time on there and, just as a quick side note, just a couple of interesting things that have happened on. There is one there was a high school student who was required to interview a voice actor for a paper that they had to write. So I volunteered and they sent me the questions, answered the questions and they got an A. 

18:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you helped someone get an A Tom. 

18:02 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) That's great, yeah Now is that going to help my voiceover career? No, no, but that's a good thing, but it's being a part of the community. The other quick example is and I can't say much is that a journalist went on a subreddit who needed to interview certain kind of people to write an article about a particular subject, and I was right for it. So I messaged them and, as a result and DA much. 

18:23 And as a result, we had it was a Zoom or a Google Meet meeting for about a half hour, asked me a bunch of questions and in the past week or so they followed up with a bunch of follow-up questions. They wanted to flesh out parts of the conversation and confirm some details and stuff like that, and I think the article comes out next week, so I'll be happy to talk about it then and promote it, because it's a very very, let's just say. 

18:50 it's a topic that's extremely relevant to the voiceover community and has been for a couple of years and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. But I wouldn't have gotten that without being on a social media platform and availing myself to what could just come my way, and it's going to turn into a nationally published article from a reputable news organization. 

19:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Excellent. Now the other thing is yes, we're talking about the social media chaos and what we can do about it. Now the other thing, too, is, if you're finding that social media has become to the point where, if you're doom scrolling and it is doom scrolling and it is becoming mentally difficult right to read things on it, then I would say, for your own mental health, step back, take a break. It's not a critical part of you know. You have your circle of friends. I have, like Tom, I can get in touch with you in lots of other ways other than social media if I have to. So, really, guys, when it comes to your health and the health of your business, if you need to step back absolutely. It's not the be all end all. 

19:49 Social media is not the be all end all to your business. It is a method that we have used for many years to promote ourselves. And I remember gosh, back in the day when social media was just becoming popular and there was Instagram and Facebook, and then it was like, oh my God, we can actually like, advertise our businesses on here. And that wasn't so long ago, or maybe it just seems like time has flown by, but I remember back in 2004 or five or six, and doing like a class on, like social media and how to advertise your business. And so 20 years has gone by, it's evolved, it's turned into a very different animal, and so I think, think again, very similar to how technologies evolve and things happen. We need to evolve with the time. So if you need to step back, absolutely for your health, absolutely step back. 

20:38 I honestly don't think that it's going to be the destruction of your business unless you have monetized on a platform that is closing down or is one of those platforms that is now you, you know, in chaos, and so really try to diversify. 

20:50 Think about how you can keep in contact with your current clients, how you can reach out to other clients, and again, I'm going to just say the good old school, like create a list for yourself. There's not one website software out there that doesn't have a way where you can invite people to become part of your list and you just have a checkbox that says I agree to allow you to send emails and people give you permission, and that becomes, I think, one of the best tools that you have, right for, let's say, maybe a professional way of marketing yourself and also a way of becoming closer to your community of professionals so that your business can stay afloat and with colleagues right. Gather those colleagues close to you. Already now there's multiple. I mean, we all do have phones, we all do have homes, we might live near each other, we all have ways to text and stay in communities together and, I think, don't rely on anyone. Get yourself prepared to not depend on any one method of acquiring clients or communicating with your colleagues at large. 

21:58 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) That makes so much sense. I'll leave everybody with one thing Think about why you're on social media. Because it just kind of showed up and everybody just started using it. And nobody took a class or read a manual, they just started messing around on there. So if you're on social media for community and the communities are failing you in one social media platform, go to a different one. If you're going there to look for clients and develop relationships with them, if the social media platforms that you've been on aren't conducive for that they never were or they aren't anymore go to a different social media platform. If you are on social media for purely non-voiceover reasons you're just there to be entertained, amused or inspired or educated, and those aren't working anymore go to different ones. If you're doing it, you just find yourself going like this on your phone and none of those motivations are there. That means the really awful psychology, algorithmic things have got their clutches in you. Yeah, get off. Read a book, take a walk, go have coffee with a friend. 

22:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I love that. That's a great way to end that, tom. Thank you so much. Yeah, bosses, be safe and be healthy with social media. All right, great conversation, tom. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have a great week and connect up with us in multiple ways. Tom and I are available and we have email addresses. You can even email us and you can, for sure, just keep listening to our podcast. So you guys have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye. 

23:31 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

 

Anne Ganguzza welcomes live-action Dubbing Casting Director Jessica Blue this week! Jessica Blue shares her captivating journey from a cartoon-loving kid in the San Francisco Bay Area to becoming a sought-after talent and director in Los Angeles. The BOSSES take you behind the scenes of voice dubbing, where Jessica reveals the art of directing and casting for this unique form of acting. She explains how directors play a crucial role in ensuring performances are authentic and compelling. The conversation touches on the challenges of adapting scripts for different languages, the essential role of adapters, and the dynamic, fast-paced nature of dubbing. The BOSSES expertise and experiences provide a valuable roadmap for aspiring voice actors navigating this exciting field. Anne and Jessica also preview the upcoming VO Peeps class where participants can experience a live-action dubbing session.

00:01 - Joe (Ad) Hi, this is Joe and I just wanted to say that, in addition to being a marketing guru in her own right, Anne Ganguzza goes deep and she has a vast knowledge and a huge breadth of experience in all and everything VO voice, acting, online communication and she offers a plethora of valuable information and golden nuggets, a fountain of first-hand knowledge, which is VOBoss. I myself had the privilege of participating in a super fun bilingual contest and one of the treats I won, alongside my colleagues, was to be interviewed by Anne and Pilar Uribe A chance to share, learn and get inspired on so many different fronts. I promise you Y, si quieres, te lo cuento en español, pero mientras tanto, búscate un episodio en VO Boss. You might easily find an amazing podcast to get instantly inspired in your work. Whatever that is. 

01:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, what's up bosses? Join our VIPs today and gain access to over 350 hours of pre-recorded workshops designed to enhance your voiceover skills. From industry insights to practical techniques, our workshops cover a wide range of topics. As a VIPs member, you'll also receive a 15% discount on current workshops and free monthly workshops to keep your skills sharp. Don't miss out on this opportunity. Sign up for VIP's membership now at vopeepscom. 

01:36 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

01:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so very excited to have special guest Jessica Blue with us this morning. Yay, hello. 

02:06 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Thank you for having me. 

02:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hi, jessica, hi For those bosses who don't know Jessica. Jessica has been a voice actress for 20 years and is an English dubbing voice and casting director on oh, some small projects like Netflix, disney+, hbo, hulu, amazon and more and of course, that was sarcastic. I want you to be able to read that acting Jessica. You can give me some tips if I have to dub over it. Okay, but as a VO talent, some of her clients include small names like Google, microsoft, macy's, wells Fargo, and the list goes on and on and on. She's also provided voices for several dubbed films and series, and some of her dubbing projects that she's directed include no Gain, no Love on Amazon, crooks from Netflix, moving, hulu and Burning Betrayal Netflix. Jessica, it is a pleasure to have you here this morning. Thanks for having me. 

02:58 - Jessica Blue (Guest) I'm super excited to talk with you. 

03:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yay, yeah. So I want to say it's just been so wonderful like knowing you for the past few years and I wish I had known you like 10, 20 years ago. Same yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've had you as a guest director for our VO Peeps a couple of times and I'm going to have you coming up this year as well for dubbing. And I guess I want to start with the bosses that are not necessarily familiar with who you are. Let's talk about your voice acting career first and how it all got started. Cool. 

03:28 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Well, I'm originally from the San Francisco Bay Area and I grew up watching cartoons like a lot of kids. Bugs Bunny was my favorite and I just loved being in that world of imagination and where anything could happen. And I thought wouldn't it be cool to be a cartoon someday, Not knowing that that was voiceover. And it wasn't until many, many years later. When my ex-husband, of all things, heard this woman talking on the radio about voiceover, I'm like what is that? And he thought I would like that. 

03:56 And so I went, took a intro class and I completely fell in love, dove headfirst and took all the classes, learned as much as I could and then eventually got an agent up there and started working in video games and commercials a little bit of animation for games and stuff, a lot of narration as well and then slowly migrated down to LA, because there was a collective of us in that group that really wanted to do animation and so we created our own show and pitched it around and down here in LA and I'd come back and everybody had kind of already migrated and moved down here, and I was the last one because I still had a whole life up there. I had a full time job. Up there I was taking care of my parents and one day my dad just said sounds like you need to be down there. Why don't you just go? I'm like I have to take care of you. I have to do all this stuff. 

04:43 There's no way Best day of my life because he basically gave me the permission. It's like you need to live your life. Stop doing this for us. Do what you need to do, follow your passion. I'm like I love you, dad. So it took me a couple more years to get my ducks in a row and finally leave the corporate life which was the best decision of my life ever and made the move down to Los Angeles in 2013 and didn't have a plan B, didn't have a job, didn't have an agent down here, nothing, but I was all focused on voiceover and I had already come down here, like the year prior, to sort of get the lay of the land network, take classes with directors here, just to sort of get the lay of the land network, take classes with directors here, just to sort of immerse myself in the LA culture, in the LA VO community. 

05:30 And then it just kind of took off and got an agent, started working, getting more jobs and met awesome people like you and Jeff Howell and all these other amazing folks, and just been doing it ever since. And then Jeff Howell is actually the one who got me into dubbing because he had a project come up and he says I need your help, I need you to help me organize all this stuff. 

05:50 I'm like, okay, and we kind of started doing dubbing together and did about six movies together. I want to say and he says, okay, you should be directing, you need to be directing. And I had expressed an interest in directing and so it just kind of shifted into I was still doing acting. I love that, but I love directing so much and it was so great. And so. 

06:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I've sort of shifted. 

06:15 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Now I still do a little bit of acting here and there, Super picky and choosy about what auditions I do, who I read for all that good stuff, because I really have a focus more on directing and stuff. So that's where my passion now lies and that's kind of it. 

06:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. I love that because you kind of follow your passion and it all just followed you Do, you know what. I mean, you've manifested it for yourself, which is something that I absolutely love, and I love directing myself, but not necessarily dubbing, but in terms of demos and that whole creative process of being able to take it from the ground up to something beautiful. And so let me ask you. So 20 years has passed or so, and so how has the industry evolved and changed since you first? 

07:02 - Jessica Blue (Guest) were in it. Oh my God, night and day Back in the day when I was first started and first of all, I felt like I was coming into this super late because I was already in my 30s, I want to say when I started getting into this. And most people you know get in their 20s. They're doing this or even earlier, so I felt like a super late bird, but that's been the story of my life. I'm a late bloomer and everything. 

07:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's funny. I was actually in my thirties too. Well, I was in corporate. I was actually in education. I came from corporate to education and before you go on, I did want to say what did you do in corporate, Because that's always interesting to me You're going to laugh. 

07:37 - Jessica Blue (Guest) I was a paralegal manager for the electric company in their law department. 

07:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, my gosh Okay. 

07:42 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Yeah. 

07:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, no, nothing surprises me actually. 

07:46 - Jessica Blue (Guest) So, like legal jargon, medical jargon, I've got that locked, unlocked yeah. 

07:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's crazy. 

07:54 - Jessica Blue (Guest) It's always interesting to find out what corporate places people come from you know it's such a different world, but it's definitely helped my business as far as you know. Knowing how to communicate, being responsive and just general email etiquette, that kind of thing. It goes a long way. But back when I first started you needed to be where your agent was. You had to go in person to audition and it started to slowly switch to where you could record at home and then send it in an MP3. 

08:26 But for the most part, like it was super hard to get an LA agent if you were not in LA or even in New York or wherever you had to be there, locally, physically, because they had so many other talent that was right there, hop, skip and a jump that they could grab. So that has completely changed, especially since COVID, because now everything's remote or phoned in or whatever. That's probably the biggest thing. Also, because of that, it's exploded the amount of voiceovers, because there's been such a spotlight on it, especially with all the new animated movies. I mean, back in the day, you know, I had Cinderella and Bambi, you know those movies which were classics, snow White. But now we have a new one coming out, several coming out every year, and they've got these celebrities attached to it. 

09:13 So people, the general audience, are seeing these celebs do these voices and they're like, oh, I want to do that voice or I could do that voice, and they think it's like, oh, it's super easy, that'd be fun. 

09:22 And they think it's like, oh, it's super easy, that'd be fun, let me go do some voiceover, not realizing it's a process you have to learn, you have to know how to act first of all. It's not just about your voice and take the training, learn the craft. So I think that has sort of opened the door for way more people. So it's super competitive now, and you're not just competing with people in your local area or in your state or now even in your country, right In other countries now, because everybody can now just kind of send stuff in electronically. So technology has definitely improved, as well as having a booth Again, it used to be like I just have a crappy little setup in my closet and now people have these amazing beautiful booths with lighting and all this stuff, and I mean, technology has come so far, so that's a whole nother thing too. So a lot has changed. 

10:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) A lot has changed, but you have evolved along with that. And now you mentioned something about acting. 

10:17 I always like to talk about acting, when you kind of made the shift, kind of also in parallel working with dubbing. You're talking about acting on the fly, I mean. I think that that becomes like front and center in terms of what are the qualifications that you need as an actor or as a voice actor to really get into this industry. And maybe I can just have you explain dubbing kind of from the beginning for the bosses who are not necessarily as familiar with the dubbing industry. 

10:45 - Jessica Blue (Guest) So basically for if you don't know what dubbing is, it's essentially taking a movie or a TV show from another language and putting it into English so you don't have to watch with subtitles. You can actually hear the English spoken while you're watching the video, and our goal is to make sure that the lip flaps match as close as possible so that it doesn't take you out of that and you forget that you're watching a dub. It's a long process, a lot goes into it, it's very detailed, which I'm not going to go into all the gory details of it. But the main thing that I'm looking for when I'm hiring and casting someone to do a dub is that they can act, that I believe that their voice is coming out of the face that I'm seeing on screen and that they're able to give all the nuances of that performance. And it's actually really cool, in my opinion, because it's so much closer to being on stage or being on set and diving into a character and get all that juicy goodness, versus reading a three second tag or a 30 second copy for medical whatever. So there's a lot more that goes into it and it's definitely a skill that has to be learned by doing it. 

11:54 It rinse and repeat kind of thing. It does take practice because it can be very challenging and overwhelming at first because there's a lot going on. Because not only are you walking in blind, you have no idea when are you walking in blind, you have no idea when you book a job. You have no idea if you're the lead, if you're an incidental, how many characters you're doing, what the show's about, how long you know all this stuff. You have no clue. So it's the director's job to fill that in for you explain the show who your character is, what they're about, what's going on in the scene, and then you watch the scene and you're seeing this rhythm of band go by with the dialogues screaming by like karaoke and you're trying to read, you're trying to watch the video, you're kind of your eyes are sort of doing this back and forth to try and understand everything and you're seeing it for the first time. 

12:38 I've seen it maybe two or three times at this point, right but you're seeing it for the first time, so I'll give you a freebie of but you're seeing it for the first time, so I'll give you a freebie of like you're watching it for the first time just to know what the heck is going on and who are these people and what's happening. And then we'll watch it a second time. So now you understand the scene, you understand what's going on, and now you can start maybe looking closer at the faces on screen and see what their reaction is, the projection of how loud they are soft and then we'll do a take, and then we'll do another take and put it all together and review it. And I'm looking at the dialogue to make sure that you're saying all the right words and you're not mispronouncing anything. 

13:15 And all of that good stuff and it's a lot and it takes about, I'd say, for a newbie about 15 to 20 minutes to get into the groove of it, if it's like their first time. But even experienced debbers you know they'll come in and they'll watch it and takes them a little bit of time to get warmed up too, and that's just the nature of it. But it's like everything's firing all at once. It can be very overwhelming, but it's so much fun once you get the hang of it and you get in the groove and you're just. Then you're just like, oh, all right, we're going, and it's so much fun. 

13:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, in terms of directing, let's say, if you were directing just a script that was not on the screen and you're just directing a commercial for someone, versus directing a dub scene, it seems like you have to know, I don't know, the directing is different. I mean, I feel like you have to know so much more quicker when you're doing the dubbing, because, because you have to also impart, like the actual scene, what's happening to the actor, and if the actor's not getting it or just not embodying the character in the right way, then you've got to figure out, well, how am I going to get them so that it makes a believable scene? And then, if not, what do you do? I mean, have you had actors that just didn't work out and then you had to essentially say I'm sorry and then recast I can't imagine so explain some of the differences because, like my, directing for a demo is completely different, because we're taking the words and we're creating the scene. 

14:34 We're making it up, this. You have the scene already and you've got to try to communicate that to the actor. 

14:39 - Jessica Blue (Guest) More, I would imagine yeah, I mean, on the one side it's kind of nice because you already have this template of what you need to do. You basically have to try to match that, match their energy, match their tone, match it. So it looks like what you're doing out of here is coming out of what you see. So in that sense it's a little bit simpler, because you can see what's happening with a commercial or even when you're auditioning for a dub. 

15:07 You don't have the luxury of the video to see what's going on or see what's happening in the scene. So you have to make that up in your mind and you have to find those nuggets in the script, in the dialogue, that might clue you into where are they, what's happening, why did they say this line? What does that mean? What is the intention behind that, what might be happening? And you have to somehow create that in your head, make a choice and go with it. Very much like when you're doing a commercial script. It's a lot of script analysis when you're looking at that stuff and so it's kind of cool. 

15:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Actually, you don't ever get the scene, you don't ever get the video, do you Very, very rarely? 

15:42 - Jessica Blue (Guest) You might if we are doing in-person auditions, do you when you're auditioning? Very, very rarely you might. If we are doing in-person auditions, we do VTKs, which is a video test kit and that will have the actor come in. They'll do an audition in person, to the video, to the scene, so they'll see what's happening, they'll see the actors and everything and they'll get directed. So it's a directed audition. That's about the only time Very rarely will we send out a clip. 

16:06 It'll just be the sides and they'll just have that to go on and wing it a prayer and figure it out and make a strong choice. Read through that analysis, look through everything, pick out whatever you can. Make a strong choice, go with it, because again, I'm listening for your acting chops as well as, if I believe, the voice coming out of the face. But even if I'm hearing someone do a commercial, I'm still in that visual sense of who are you talking to? Are you connected? Are you just phoning this in? Are you just reading this? It's very similar because there's a lot of times, too, where I'll have clients like they sound like they're reading. It's like, well, they kind of are because they're reading this girl going by, but you have to make it sound like you're not reading, just like you would a commercial or a video game or anything. You have to make it conversational. That's the name of the game in dubbing is conversational. We want real, grounded, authentic voices, authentic acting. Not, hi, how are you? I am Jessica Mm-hmm. 

17:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Mm-hmm. 

17:05 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Yeah absolutely. 

17:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So what tips would you say then? Could you give a voice actor that wants to get into dubbing, like, what can they do to prepare themselves? Maybe, and maybe practice or coach with you? Yeah, absolutely, I do do coaching, yeah, besides coaching with you, but I'm just so, yeah, what can they do if they're interested in dubbing? What's your best tips? Watch some dubs. 

17:27 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Go on Netflix, go on Hulu, Disney, Amazon, whatever. Watch some dubs that are good and watch how their acting is, or listen to how their acting is in relation to what's happening in the scene. A way to practice is kind of cool, Not exact, but it will help you with that sight reading of looking up to the video and looking down to the dialogue is put on subtitles. Grab your favorite show or movie, put on the subtitles, watch it with the sound on with the subtitles. 

17:57 read the subtitles and get used to switching back your eyesight from the video to the subtitles, switching back your eyesight from the video to the subtitles and then rewind it, mute it and then say it with the subtitles and see how close you can match to their mouths, or whatever. I mean. It's not going to be exact, but that will help you with that skill of sight reading, of going back and forth from the video to the dialogue. 

18:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well then, I should be amazing Jessica, because I'm old and I have the subtitles on all the time because I can't hear, so I've got the eyesight going and I don't necessarily practice along with that. But yeah, no, that's a great tip. And to actually watch dubs, I think is great, and I myself have watched dubs and I've watched people do it because I've watched you direct people. Do you think it's something that all voice actors would love to do? Or do you feel like it's a niche where I feel, like people that do audiobooks, they love their audiobooks, people that dub love dubbing, like? Or do you think it's just something like oh, it's another genre, it's just oh, I can. What's your experience with talent? I think it's a little of both. 

18:57 - Jessica Blue (Guest) I think it is sort of a niche. I have my core group of actors that you know. It's like the standard dubbers or whatever, but I'm always finding new talent, always bringing new people into the fold. And so and I've never really had someone go, oh, I don't like this or this isn't for me Maybe they did and I didn't know about it. 

19:18 But usually, even though they might be scared and nervous getting into it because they're not sure about anything new, any change, once they do it they're like oh my God, this is kind of fun, I really like this. So then they like tell me more, how do I get into it? How do I do what? How do I need to get more of this type of work? And so it kind of fuels their fire to do it or be more interested in it. So I think it's definitely grown a lot in the last couple of years, for sure, and I don't think it's going away anytime soon because there's so much content. There's so much content out there from other countries that are being brought into the United States and getting dubbed into English. So I don't think the work is going anywhere anytime soon. So I think we're okay. 

19:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So here's the elephant in the room right Synthetic voices AI. How does that work into dubbing, or does it not? Or what are your thoughts? Is it a threat? 

20:07 - Jessica Blue (Guest) I don't think it's a threat now, and if it is, it's going to be minor. I don't think it's going to take over lead voices because, it cannot reproduce these performances, the nuances that humans can, and I think we've got that covered and okay. And also I've heard stories about companies trying to use AI to dub a lead character and the audience isn't buying it. 

20:31 They're like that looks weird, that sounds weird, it doesn't match or whatever, and so I think for the main characters, lead characters and everything, we're good, we're okay. It's not going to go the AI route. It might change to where they might end up using some type of AI situation that is ethically sourced. Ai. 

20:50 voices for Walla for the background noise, like you know, in airports and restaurants and things like that, because that's just this murmur, this hum bed of voices that you hear in the background, and not necessarily actual dialogue that you can make out and hear what they're saying, but they already have a lot of those like sound beds. You know that we've recorded over many years and they can just plop that in. So it's kind of already done, so I don't know why they would actually need an AI for that. 

21:16 So I don't necessarily see I mean, if anything, I think AI might come in on more of the production side, the backside of it, not the performance side, you know, more of the organization of files and management and things like that, or QCing stuff like that I don't know that it's going to really impact the performance side of things for dubbing yet, and I mean who knows Anything's possible but also to get all of these companies on the same page. You know, if somehow this fantastic software came out that you know is able to match the voice to the original actor or change whatever to get everybody on board with that, I mean that's a huge feat in and of itself and I don't see that happening anytime soon. So I think we're okay. 

21:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So if you talk about when we dub, we're dubbing from one language to another. Typically for us we would be the English, and so how much of a disconnect is there because of the language differences, you know, in terms of like lip flap and believability is there from certain languages, and are some languages easier to dub than others? Oh yeah, two things. 

22:17 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Some languages their lips barely move, so they're talking like this and it's like what do you say? There's no labial movements, oh my God. And then there's some like Spanish and French, where they are motor mouths and they're like and what takes in Spanish? It takes them 10 words to say what we can say in five in English. But there's like all these, like you know, like happy birthday hon. You know, it's like so different, but yet we would then have to add on extra words stretch it out, add on words, because there's still all that mouth flap that we have to cover, so we would have to add on words. 

22:57 Or, in the opposite of French, they can say something very short, like two words, and it takes us seven words to say. So how do we? Ah, like they say nothing? 

23:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So who does that editing? That's interesting. Who does that editing? Is that you, or it sometimes is me. It's the adapter. 

23:13 - Jessica Blue (Guest) So, which I also do Adaptation is probably the most important and critical step in the whole dubbing process. That's basically where the studio will send it to a translator. They'll translate the Spanish into English. Then that goes to the adapter. The adapter then takes that English translation, rewrites it to make it sound conversational, make it match the lip flaps, adding words, subtracting words, making jokes work that might not make sense to us it does in their language but it doesn't jive with us and then also syncing it all up. 

23:46 So the lines are matched up to start, of the mouth opening to the mouth closing, as well as adding in all of the vocal efforts. So laughs, sneezes, coughing, crying, breathing, fight scenes, getting punched, coughing, throat clearing, anything like that is always going to be in brackets so that we have those vocal efforts, because it's going to look funny if you're just talking and all of a sudden you do this and like you don't hear anything. Yeah, yeah, what was that? Right, right, it was a sigh. Ok, got it. So we had to put sighs in brackets so that the actor knows that they have to sigh when they see that chest movement. 

24:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So it's a lot OK. So business wise it seems like a lot of work right. So I have a film right. And where does the money come from? The distribution, the licensing of the film in different languages? 

24:33 - Jessica Blue (Guest) I think so, yeah, because it'll be like a Netflix will go out and they'll buy the property, the distribution rights for a show from the original person, which is probably yeah, where the money comes from and then that pays for it, because it seems like an awful lot of work, sometimes right, it is a huge 

24:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) amount of work If you want a huge amount of work to get to a product that you don't know if it's going to. I mean it's like any movie that comes out right. I mean you put a lot of investment into it, so I imagine that, yeah, it's just got to be the purchase of the rights to the movie. That is where the money is, because is is because is the money. Does the voice actor get money? I mean, I'm sure they get paid. Do you know what I mean? But I mean, let's talk about how well does the voice actor get paid or the dubber get paid for this. Is this an industry that is lucrative? It can be. 

25:19 - Jessica Blue (Guest) If you book a lead role, it can be very lucrative because that means multiple sessions, especially if it's a TV show, because that's multiple episodes. So you could be a six episode show, a 12 episode show, a 20 episode show. So if you're a lead character, you're in all those episodes. You're getting paid for every single time. You go into the booth for a session and we cover as much as we possibly can in a session until we exhaust all of the lines for that character. 

25:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But you get paid per session right. 

25:48 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Per session. 

25:48 - Intro (Announcement) You don't get paid per airing of you know like a nice national commercial. 

25:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There's no royalties, there's no kickbacks. 

25:55 - Jessica Blue (Guest) There's no nothing it would be so nice. 

25:57 Especially if it like took off or whatever, oh my God. But no, it's per session. If it's a union project, it's under the union contract, the dubbing union contract, which I think now it's like $190 something per hour with a two-hour minimum, and so if you're hired for a four-hour session, that's $195 times four, and if we finish with you in three hours, you still get paid for the four hours. If we have a pickup, you still get paid for that two-hour minimum. Even if you're in there for 15 minutes, you still get paid. So pickups are kind of nice too. 

26:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now, do you now negotiate in contracts like the AI writer, because, let's say, you need a pickup and the actor isn't available? Right, can they utilize the voice to create an AI voice to then maybe do a pickup? 

26:45 - Jessica Blue (Guest) I've not had that come up yet, and I think myself I don't deal with the contracts with the actors. That's the studio that handles all of that. So I think some of them might have an AI writer, some of them might not. So if you're an actor into dubbing and you want to check that out, make sure you read your contracts and see if it's in there and if it's not ask them and see if they'll do it, because a lot of them will, but at this point I don't think we've had that issue. 

27:09 We always find workarounds honestly like even if we missed a line, maybe we have a backup or we can frankenstein something together, or if we missed a breath or a laugh here, I'll just steal it from somewhere else and plug it in there so I don't have to have anything to save that money for the client, so that we don't have to worry about that pickup. And even for incidental. Sometimes I'll jump in the booth and if I just need a line or something to cover whatever, I'll just jump in there. I'm like, let me just do it, it'll be really fast, it's fine, I'll just do it. 

27:37 So, but yeah, it can be lucrative if you're a lead, because that means multiple sessions. If you're an incidental, it's just fun practice and maybe it's one session, one and done and you're in and out and that's still fun. But also, I think, when actors do get on the radar of these studios and directors then and they do it one time, two times, and they do well, we like working with cool people, good people, good actors, so we're gonna have you back and you'll get in that roster, in that pool of people, and you just kind of start working, working, work and it's kind of cool that way. 

28:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah. Well, that's nice. So then, the first thing, if voice actors want to get into dubbing is, I would say bump up your acting skills, yeah absolutely. Do you have good recommendations for acting classes, like in-person acting classes, online acting classes or working with a coach? Perhaps All of it? 

28:30 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Honestly, I feel like if you can do in-person, that's great because obviously you're feeding off the energy of everybody. I prefer being in person with people versus Zoom, but Zoom is obviously much more efficient and effective, especially if you aren't able to travel to do in-person. One-on-ones are also great if you're working with a coach or a teacher, because all the focus is on you and you can really hone in on what needs you need to work on and improve on. 

28:59 But also the group session is great because you can learn from others and what I like to say, steal with love and take a little bit of that and that and put it in my pocket I'm going to use that, yeah, I mean it's life, isn't it? 

29:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think that's how we do it. I think all of us, when we teach voice acting, we want to get to the same end result. We want authentic, believable performances, and so, however we say it to get the actor to get there, we're all trying to get to the same end result. So, yeah, absolutely, and that, I believe, also is going to translate well to they can do dubbing and they can do voice acting, because acting is just going to help you all the way around, and acting will even help you in medical and corporate. And I say that just because you know that's me, and that's my geeky that's my geeky place. 

29:41 I think it can help you even more because that stuff is typically very dry and boring and you've got to make that. You've got to make that come alive in some way to make it interesting to people so that they want to listen to it. I mean, right now I'm going through some online courses and I'm telling you like it is tough. I know I need to know this information and I am just like, oh God, I got to do four more hours of this, and so it really helps when you've got the skills to be engaging and to like connect with the listener on the other end. Yeah, absolutely so, if I am hearing you correctly. Of course, acting would be number one. Acting would be number one to help get you into dubbing, and then, of course, watching dubbed TV shows and really getting in on that. And then what about networking? How can they network with the places that might hire them? 

30:23 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Absolutely Research. Google is your best friend. Look up and search dubbing houses, dubbing recording studios in your neck of the woods, See who's out there. And also I will say another trick is when you're watching these shows and movies online that are dubs, at the very end sometimes they'll have the credits for the dubs of who the actors are, who the studio is, who the director and the casting, the producer are, so you can actually see what studios are doing the dubs that way. 

30:54 And then you can look those up and see. If you can't find an, email. And a lot of those studios have their own rosters that they're actively looking for talent. So you could reach out to one of them and like, hey, are you open for taking on new talent? I'm interested in dubbing, or I have. I've done a dub here and there. I'd love to be considered for a future dub and just throw whatever you can at the wall and see what sticks. 

31:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Would you say that the majority of it is done in LA and in the big cities where, yeah, a chunk of it is. 

31:20 - Jessica Blue (Guest) But I know Dallas I want to say Dallas, but one of the big cities in Texas they do a lot of anime with Crunchyroll I think. But there's other dub houses. There's one in Florida called the Kitchen in Miami. There's obviously several overseas, in Europe and elsewhere. So again, it's just you know Google, google is your best friend. Find where they are and search them out and do some research on that to figure out who's doing what and where, and you'll find it. And yeah, I would say networking is to find those people and seek them out and hit them up. But be human and personal about it. Don't just be like needy, like hi, I'm so, and so here's my demo. Listen to me. 

31:59 No, make it make a connection yeah, make a connection to be memorable. So that because I, I get. Sometimes I'll get those emails that just say here, here's my demo. I'd love to work with you sometime Like great. I don't know you. From who are you next? You? 

32:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) know, yeah, so I've been dying to ask you this because, of course, this goes along with. I feel like we're networking and there's a lot of talk about when you're running your business, because you can be the best actor in the world, but if nobody knows about it, it's hard for you, kind of. Over the years, have established a brand for myself, and a lot of people that know me for the VO Boss brand know that I have the red headphones, or I have the red lipstick because I talk about it all the time, and my Anne Ganguzza brand is blue and guess what? Jessica Blue. If anybody doesn't know Jessica or has never met Jessica, you can find her easily because she's got very signature branding. 

32:50 - Jessica Blue (Guest) So let's talk about that for a little bit, if you don't mind, of course you can't really see it well in this lighting, but I do have blue hair and I have really blue eyes. You do, yes, you do Pops when the blue starts to fade and get lighter, and my logo is blue. I always have blue nails. 

33:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm wearing blue nails. My car is my favorite color. 

33:12 - Jessica Blue (Guest) I've loved it since I was a kid when I actually, when I was a kid and I was sharing a room with my sister, we had bunk beds and everything, and then my mom cleaned out this other room and we got to switch and I got my own room, finally, and I got to decorate it however I wanted I had it was blue carpet. Blue paint on one wall, blue wallpaper everywhere. 

33:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I had blue stripes. I mean, blue is one of my absolute favorites. I had blue stripes, I painted on one. I had an accent wall in my bedroom. I'm an 80s girl, right 70s, 80s. It was literally like two different shades of blue and it was like a big, like V. It was hysterical. That's awesome and I loved it, but I will say that your branding works so well for you. Did you do that because not only your favorite color is blue, but because you wanted to become memorable in your business? Is that another angle? 

33:54 - Jessica Blue (Guest) that that part never even hit. I'll tell you how so. Loose flash blue is not my real name, it's my stage name. What? Um? Yeah, I know secrets galore. No, it actually came up. So I've been rocking the blue hair since 2001. Okay, and I think it was around 2000. 

34:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Before it was a thing, right, I mean really. I mean I would say, when I grew up it was only if you were a punk. And then you had you know, what I mean. I feel like I started, like yeah, I feel like I sort of started this trend like it was acceptable, because also working in a law firm corporate with blue hair. 

34:32 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Yes, exactly, and acceptable because also working in a law firm corporate with blue hair yes, exactly, and I'm like, if they don't like it, they can go pound sand because I know how to do my job. 

34:37 I'm doing my job and this has nothing to do with what I can do. So but I was in a workout group with some fellow actors and one of my friends, I think I had come in with a blue stripe in my hair. I was testing the waters out to see if I liked it or not and I had just one little blue strand. And she says, oh, you should change your name to Jessica Blue. And I'm like, oh, I like that. I think I'm going to do that. From that point on, I became Jessica Blue in all things voiceover and acting and I've never looked back. 

35:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It is so attached to you and I think it's brilliant. 

35:12 I mean, whether you intended that to be or not, like I will always know how to spot you in a crowd number one, but I also remember your name and so I'm always telling my students that until people know who you are, I mean you have to establish a brand. I mean, and so I'm like, well, make yourself a great actor and associate yourself with maybe another brand in your demo that people can say oh, I love that Ford spot that you did, or I love that movie you did, or whatever. If you can make yourself memorable in that kind of a way where you're attaching yourself to a brand or a show, right, then I think that that starts to get the ball rolling, because I think success begets success. Ball rolling because I think success begets success. And, like you said, once you start and you get into kind of the circles where you're dubbing and people like you, then it's nice because you get that kind of repeat work and I think that's important in terms of if you want to build your business. 

36:04 So thank you for the explanation of your brand. I love it Absolutely. 

36:08 - Jessica Blue (Guest) But it also it's not. It's not who you know, it's who knows you, because that's how you're going to become memorable and hired over and over again. So it is very important. I agree with you, but thank you. 

36:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thank you, I appreciate that. So if you make it easy, if you make it easy to stand out and be unique and you've done it brilliantly. So, Jessica, this is so much fun yes, it has. Thank you so much for joining me today. Yeah, my pleasure, and so I do know that you did say that a random listener is going to receive something special with you. Did you say a one-hour coaching? 

36:42 - Jessica Blue (Guest) session One-hour free coaching session for dubbing, yes. 

36:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So what I'm going to do is I'm going to randomly choose one listener, and so, in order for me to randomly choose a listener, you guys have to submit a testimonial, maybe on this episode, saying that you like this episode, and so I absolutely. On the VO Boss website, at vobosscom, you can submit your testimonial. If you do that for this episode with Jessica and you mention Jessica, we will then randomly select a winner within a week of the episode release to get a free one-hour dubbing coaching session. Yay, that's awesome. Thank you, jessica. 

37:17 - Intro (Announcement) Of course that's so generous. 

37:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) My pleasure, all right. Well, again, thanks so much. This has been wonderful and bosses, keep a lookout for the VO Peeps workout. Which gosh, is it May, june? I'm trying to think. 

37:28 - Intro (Announcement) I think it's February. When do we have? When do we have? Oh my gosh February. 

37:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh my gosh, next month. Oh, that's right, it is next month. Next month we have you for VOP. So guys go get that ticket, because Jessica sells out very, very quickly. Thanks again, thank you, I really, really appreciate it. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too, find out more at IPDTLcom Bosses, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. 

37:56 - Intro (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOBosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

 

Join Anne Ganguzza and Danielle Famble for the next BOSS Money Talks episode, as they share tips on how to manage both business and personal finances. From choosing the ideal business credit card to managing your everyday spending, The BOSSES provide the tools you need to enhance your financial efficiency. Anne and Danielle delve into the practical aspects of leveraging credit cards for business gains, highlighting the potential to earn cashback and travel points while simplifying your bookkeeping tasks. They discuss the art of planning large expenses and paying off balances to avoid interest traps, alongside sharing personal stories of their credit journeys. 00:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) At Anne Ganguzza productions. I focus on personal growth and artistic expression and can help you unlock the full potential of your voice. It's a journey of discovery and strategy and I'm here to help guide you every step of the way. Your story deserves to be heard. Find out more at anneganguzza.com. 

00:35 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

00:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Money Talk Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so ecstatic to be back again with Danielle Famble. Hey. 

01:01 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Anne, I am glad to be back, happy to talk money and finances and being a boss with you. 

01:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love it. I love it, except Danielle. I just had to pay my American Express bill. Yeah, and I will tell you and the bosses I have a business credit card, which I think is the best thing since sliced bread and the reason why I love my business credit card maybe not so much for all the money that I have to pay on it this month, but mostly because I get money back. I mean, I try to strategically use that credit card to my advantage, for my business. 

01:34 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah. 

01:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I know I have a credit card and a couple of other tricks up my sleeve, but I have a feeling you have a couple of tricks up your sleeve that I would love to know about. 

01:44 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Oh, man, If you want to get me to nerd out on anything ever, you chose the right topic Credit cards. Credit card points and miles is my jam. I'm wearing my nerdy glasses today, Just so excited to talk about credit card points. 

02:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So fill us in on how we can take advantage, Because I mean, why not? Right? I'm excited, I'm excited. So I'll just tell you, my American Express gives me money back and I picked it specifically because of that. It gives me money back every month the more I spend with it and I thought, well, that's great. That just encourages me to always use that card to spend. And for me, I only have the one for my. Actually, I have a couple for my business, because I do have a bank account which then gives me a credit card by default. Okay, I've got a debit card, I've got a business debit card, but I also have a credit card with them which I don't use right now. But they are always touting oh, you can save 3% if you buy gas, that kind of thing. But I end up using the one card only because for me, my brain, it makes things simple right now to deal with, but I'm sure that I could be taking more advantage of other things. 

02:53 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Oh, yeah, you talk about your credit card. I actually just opened up a new credit card for my business and when I open that credit card you get a certain number of bonus points if you spend a certain amount of money in the first couple of months of opening the card. 

03:08 Mostly, really to— yes, yes, similar to my bank. Yeah, to incentivize you to use this card. Well, this particular card would give me I think it was 250,000 points to travel, and I was so excited about it because I have travel coming up to go to conferences and things like that and instead of using cash to spend the money to travel, I can use these points as another currency as a way to get to a conference or two or three, or travel or stay at hotels. So it's a way of utilizing the money that I'm spending anyway and having a different currency to be able to use it. And that's a way of utilizing the money that I'm spending anyway and having a different currency to be able to use it. And that's just sort of the beginning. You're talking about money back into your business, but I just I love talking about like points and miles because you're spending the money anyway for your business, right, and so you're getting this currency back to be able to do other things with it. 

04:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So then let me ask you a question Are you looking always for deals, current deals with new credit cards, or is it just if it happens to come up when you make a purchase, sometimes like well, let's say, I go clothing shopping, sorry, and they'll be like well, you can save 20% on your order today if you open up a credit card with us. And there'll be a lot of times that I'll do that just because I want to save the 20%, and then I really don't have any intention of using it again. If it's a store I don't shop frequently, but I will absolutely do that. But now I also know that that does affect my credit score. It's not always a negative impact on the credit score, because I happen to have I'm very proud of the fact that I have a really good, almost perfect, credit score. 

04:39 - Intro (Announcement) Oh, great yeah. 

04:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) After many, many years. 

04:41 - Intro (Announcement) And. 

04:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm like. Well, I don't know, is that going to affect if I open up a credit card? How do you handle the credit cards? 

04:46 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) So again, we've talked about this. For me I'm dealing with personal, totally separate than business. So, for example, with my business credit card that I just opened, I knew that I was going to have a lot of really big expenses coming up for the business and because I was planning that, I was looking for a credit card to be able to capitalize on the amount of money I was already planning on spending and had already planned and put that money aside to pay this. 

05:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Okay, so let me ask you so, for example, not that I'm going to delve that deeply, but I'm thinking was this for travel for a voiceover conference, or maybe new equipment or something new for your studio, or maybe demos right, things that you would invest in, right for your voiceover business? 

05:28 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) So, big ticket items like a demo or a voiceover conference would be a good opportunity to maybe look into this Potentially yes, I always give a caveat first with using credit cards at all, and you're talking about your great credit score and I'm proud to have really worked to build my credit score as well. To have a great credit score is making sure that you can pay the credit card off in full at the end of the month. 

05:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, thank you for saying that. Yes, I absolutely make it a point to do that every single month, exactly. 

05:56 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Because if you don't, then you're actually kind of not really getting all the perks and having the benefits of having this credit card, because then you're paying this huge fee for interest and things like that. So for me, when I'm looking at credit cards be it for personal or for the business I want to make sure that I have the ability to pay it off. It's almost like using the cash that I already had on hand to pay off this bill and I'm getting this huge point value, or I'm getting points along the way. 

06:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you said that, because I will always, when we talked about our business accounts, our bank accounts, I am so thankful and grateful for that business savings account. Because that business savings account says to me I've got a big ticket item coming, I have the money that I can pay it all off at the end of the month, which I think absolutely is so important. And I'll be the first to admit I mean I have let my credit cards go. 

06:48 I mean when I was younger and foolish, I let my credit cards go and have a balance and at one point there was a big balance on it and you end up spending so much money on interest that it's not necessarily an ideal situation, that's for sure, and especially if this is your business and I'm not saying that you have to wait to buy everything until you can pay it off at the end of the month. However, it certainly makes things a whole lot easier. 

07:12 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, it makes things a lot easier and also you're able to plan for what's coming up. So you're being proactive about what you're doing for your business. Talk about, like big-ticket items buying a new booth or a microphone or demos Lord knows, they're not inexpensive and so these are things that you need to plan for, and by planning for it and having the financial resources able to pay for it, then really you're able to utilize other tools to get you a little bit more for the money that you are already planning on spending. You are already planning on spending. This is actually something I learned from a personal finance situation when I was trying to really understand like money and finances and learn about, like, how money works. 

07:52 I learned in my own personal life that if I didn't have the cash to spend on something, I was putting myself deeper in a hole by spending additional money on interest because I really didn't have the money to buy that thing in the first place. Now I understand. You know, not everyone has the money to like pay everything off in full. I was at my grocery store and, ann, I will tell you they have pay over time at my grocery store. Oh man. 

08:18 It's unreal and I get it. Times are tough and money can be really, really tight. Get it, times are tough and money can be really really tight. But I do think this is an opportunity for planning for certain big expenses that you can utilize, opening up a credit card or using your credit card to be able to get you things like protections for that device. You know, if you use a certain credit card, they may cover it instead of needing to get the extra insurance. 

08:43 That's actually a really good point. Yeah, there are so many different things that you can utilize by using a credit card for let's talk about business for the business purchases that you're doing. 

08:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So warranty like additional warranty or protection, so I wouldn't have even thought that actually, if you buy it with your credit card, does it give you additional protection? 

09:00 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, yeah, and also my boyfriend was telling me that his debit card, his number, got like taken or hacked or something like that, and so they were trying to take money out of his account. But if that happens with a credit card, you're dealing with the bank's money, not your own personal money, so it's a little bit easier to get that money recovered if something would happen with it. 

09:20 So there are so many different protections that can happen. And even you said you have one credit card for your business for bookkeeping we talked about bookkeepers and things like that. 

09:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's one ledger to be able to cross-reference and say, okay, this is what I spent over the course of time, and I mean I'm getting so excited right when I went to a conference. 

09:42 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I went to J Michael's Euro Retreat. Actually, when you and I met in person to Amsterdam, you know I flew there on points. My flight was totally covered by points and it was accumulation of points that I had spent by utilizing my credit card for all of the business expenses that I pay monthly. My Source Connect, my Zoom accounts, my all of this stuff. It's paid through a credit card. And then I had accumulated enough points to be able to fly for free Business class. 

10:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It was nice. I love using my credit card to pay for all my monthly subscriptions because, again, my one subscription that I have for personal right, which is I have a subscription, peloton which is like $44 a month, which is some crazy amount, but I use it. So for me it's worth it and it's funny because the amount that I'm getting paid back on that credit card pretty much pays for about half of that. So it's kind of cool. I broke my monthly price down from $44 to like $24. And so it really works out. It's $24 a month. So for me that works. And so, if you can look for those creative ways. But like, how much time do you spend looking for deals or checking on the deals? Because a lot of times I think credit cards will have a deal and then it only lasts for a certain amount of time, right, and then maybe interest rate will go back up or maybe it won't get 3% or 4% on gas purchases. You won't get it anymore. So how on top of it do you have to be? 

11:08 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I think you would need to be on top of it. If that's something On a monthly, probably on a monthly basis. If that's something that you are planning on, for example, opening up a new card, for example, for me, I was ready to open a new card, and so I spent a couple of hours on Google YouTube like just checking around to see what was out there. 

11:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So what do you Google? So, if you're searching for a new credit card, what do you Google? What's a smart thing to search for? 

11:34 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) For this one, I was looking for business credit cards because again, personal and business. So there are some business credit cards you can get. You can just Google best business credit card in the year. And then, for the most part in Google, it'll tell you, like what options are available and it'll even give you potentially some hints if you were to go into incognito mode. When you're looking for new credit cards, the bonus points may be higher than when you just search for it normally. 

12:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, that's so interesting because you're right, because your information is in Google anyways. There's the tip of the day, Guys, we can go home now Because I think that's a great tip. Like you would I never would have thought of that to go in incognito mode, because then they're not necessarily going on information that they already have on you for that credit card and you might get better deals. 

12:22 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, exactly. 

12:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Because more than likely, they know that I have an American Express credit card that I've used online 100 billion times before. 

12:29 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) So they're not trying to bring you in as a new customer because they don't know that you are or are not a current customer. 

12:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So do your searching in incognito mode. 

12:38 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I love that, yeah, and that's actually exactly what happened to me. I was looking for this particular credit card and my first Google search said okay, great, 150,000 points. Wonderful when incognito mode, 250,000 points, same card, same everything. And I was like oh, what can I do with 250,000? 

13:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) points. I would just say, personally, this doesn't matter. I mean, you could be shopping for studio equipment, right, which I always say. Vioboss has a great studio equipment list that you can certainly click on and buy. But when you are searching for equipment online, I mean you can even like do that in incognito mode, or if you're signing up on a website for the first time, a lot of times they'll give you an offer for, say, 15% on your first order, right, or whatever it might be, and so I might be going back to the same company that I already purchased something and I'll sign up with a different email address so that. 

13:35 I can get that discount and that will actually help me to make that decision. Well, all right, I can save 15%. So, yeah, that's good, that's good for me, I'll buy it. So same thing with a credit card, right. So when you're shopping, pretend like you are a new person shopping for that, and I think you'll get a really good deal, yeah, and just look around and shop around Again. 

13:54 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) When you're ready to make these big purchases is a good time to start looking to see I'm going to spend the money anyway, what can I get for the amount of money that I'm planning on spending? So that's a really great opportunity. But also there are ways to get deals or to get stuff for the points that you're already accumulating. In some ways it can be just cash back. In other ways it could be travel, which I absolutely love that because I like to travel anyway, and I'm going to be traveling for some of these conferences or staying at hotels. 

14:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And hotels too, like, if you are, we're a Marriott vacation owner and so we try to stay at Marriott's whenever possible because we can get points with Marriott's, and so then when I go to a voiceover conference, I can use those points theoretically to either have a room if I'm not provided a room already, but if I'm provided a room, I can use the membership that I have to upgrade that room, yeah, and then get maybe a free breakfast or get access, get free water. Gosh knows that we need water all the time. 

14:55 So, I'm always looking for that free water deal. I'm like, okay, I am a gold card member or I'm a Marriott club member and so I need my free water today. Right, yeah, so every time I go to VO Atlanta, they don't put water in the rooms anymore. And now they're doing a thing. Well, they do. I'm sorry, Excuse me. 

15:15 There was one place that I went where they don't put water in the rooms they now have, like a place where you can fill like a refillable sort of thing, which I think is a great idea so that you don't have to waste the plastic bottles anymore. But at Vio Atlanta, at that hotel I had credit at the store so I would go down and get like the big because I drink a lot of water. I get one of the big bottles of water every day for my coffee machine. I don't love Starbucks coffee, so I'd make my own coffee. But yeah, there's so many cool things you can do with hotels and airfare. 

15:40 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) And even having access to like, for example, you said, american Express. You have an American Express card. There is the American Express card that has access to what's called fine hotels and resorts. So you can book through that relationship and I was actually looking at that for a trip that I was taking and you get like free breakfast and early check-in and check-out and you get like an experience credit at that hotel. So you get more just by having the virtue of having this relationship, which then can possibly make your stay a little bit more comfortable. 

16:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So you're saying the relationship with money can help you get more things? 

16:22 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yes, and have a different quality of life. 

16:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, you can have a good relationship with your credit card, and I think that's a good thing. Have good relationships with your credit card, not bad ones. 

16:32 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Exactly, and that actually is a really, really good point, because I grew up and I'll just have a little bit of a transparency moment I grew up hearing credit is bad, credit cards are bad, do not use it, and I actually didn't even get my first credit card until I was in my mid-20s because I was told that I didn't need it because it was bad and nothing good could come from it. But really it's a tool that can be used to enhance your quality of life, to give you more protections, if used properly. 

17:03 If used properly, that's the caveat and understanding how it works and what the tool is to be used. That interest, if you're carrying interest, is a tool that can work against you so quickly because that interest rate for credit cards specifically, is so high. And you'll know what it is because you can actually log into your account and see what the interest rate is. This is not secret stuff and see what the interest rate is. It's not, this is not secret stuff. So if you go and you take a look at it and you see, okay, I'm spending 20, 25% interest Every single month, it's working against you. But then we talked about the savings accounts, right, and how much you can make in having interest when you have your money with some of these accounts. 

17:48 So it can work for you but also interest, can work against you. If not, this tool is not being used and utilized responsibly and properly for what is needed for. 

17:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and it's so hard sometimes when you lose that control. I think it has to do with well, I don't know, maybe we talk about like we're talking about, you know credit cards and all that, and so I think, with all due respect, we do have to say we have to have a respect for it, for the credit card, a respect for the money so that it is being used responsibly, Because when it does get out of control and I will tell you, as a young girl, mine got out of control and I ended up having a huge balance and then spending this atrocious amount of interest on it and I, like you, was told that credit is bad. You should really just pay for everything. You should have the money right. If you don't have the money for it, don't buy it Right, which I agree with right. 

18:37 I know where that philosophy is coming from. It was meant for protecting me. However, you still, I think, need to have the money before you buy it, but now you can use the credit card as a tool to get more right and to maybe get more value for that. So I think the idea, the premise, is still the same Make sure you have the money before you buy it. I mean, in an ideal situation you should have the money to buy it, Otherwise maybe not buy it and then use a credit card as a tool that has benefits and perks and all those other things so that you can get more value out of it. 

19:11 Absolutely, yeah, yeah. So what sorts of things, danielle, do we have to watch out for when maybe we're using credit cards for our business or shopping for credit cards in our business? Are there any red flags out there? What do you? 

19:21 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) recommend? I recommend having a business credit card, specifically one that is for business. You can get like what would be a personal credit card in your business's name, but that goes back to sort of mixing the business and personal. There are business credit cards for a reason. I would utilize a business credit card when you're looking to open up a credit card for your business, and it does need to be in your business's name. 

19:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, I agree, I have both a business and a personal. Yeah, american Express and Costco. By the way, I have both a business Costco card and a personal Costco card. 

19:58 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, so just whatever is business and personal, they are completely separate entities. Your business, if you run your business in a certain way with like a LLC, for example, it has its own federal identification number. Yeah, so like it's really a separate entity. So if you're going to be looking for a credit card for your business, look for business credit cards, and I have found that business credit cards will offer certain protections for things that we utilize, things for business for. I even saw American Express Platinum has like a credit for the Adobe Creative Cloud, and so if you utilize, you know, adobe Audition, for example, then maybe that's something you know you want to use it for. So, looking for things for a business, looking for a business credit card, is the first thing that I would take a look at. 

20:46 Second of all, be prepared to get a new credit card if you do have like large purchases that you're already planning for, going back to essentially having the cash on hand to justify the amount that you're going to be spending, so that you do not start paying interest on this card that you were trying to get you know value from? 

21:05 And the other things that I would look at are is there an annual fee for the card Because you are spending money to have this card, and are you able to justify that annual fee with the benefits or the credits or the perks that you're getting by having this card? And there are plenty of cards out there that do not have an annual fee, and that's something to think about. 

21:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I was just going to say. It used to be a thing where almost all the cards had an annual fee and then they started. And again, I think it's all a sell right, it's all a sell mechanism right. They started most of the ones. I won't even entertain the idea of one that has a fee, unless, of course, the benefits outweigh, and I haven't had a card with a fee for many years. I don't know what about you. 

21:45 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I have several cards that have fees. 

21:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So then that means that the benefits, though, the benefits though are outweighing those fees that you pay every year. Okay, and especially, I think you're going to find that in a business credit card sense right the fees versus a personal card, because I think a lot of times personal cards people are looking for no fees right, they're looking to get the best deal possible. But for businesses, I think companies want to say, all right, for this fee we'll offer additional protection for blah, blah, blah. And it's very interesting because I never actually looked into. I have an American Express business credit card and just because of the simple fact that I got money back every month was enough for me, and I never really looked at beyond that what it offers. And so now I'm going to go back and look at the fine print and see what protections it offers and warranties and maybe additional deals that I'm not taking advantage of Exactly. 

22:37 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I mean one of my business credit cards offers protections on rental cars, so it offers that like you don't have to buy that insurance Exactly. 

22:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So really which is a huge fee these days Exactly. Oh my gosh. 

22:49 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) So, taking a look, it kind of becomes a little bit of a matrix of like okay, this covers this and this card will cover these things and everything else. And, like I said at the beginning of this episode, I get really nerdy about these things. So you know, I have a spreadsheet about all the different things that my different credit cards can provide for me in terms of bonuses and value. 

23:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And now do you have more than one business card? 

23:12 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I now have a second business card. I just this week opened my second business credit card. Like you, I prefer to have everything streamlined on one card. 

23:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure, but I couldn't say no to 250,000 points, I mean yeah, no, I get you and those points will apply. And then you know what? Here's the deal If you do open up an extra card and then you find out that it's no longer serving you with that value, then you're done with it. There's typically no penalty for not using it. 

23:38 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) What I would say to that and for me this is always my calculus, personal or business opening up a new card is is there a downgrade path? So you don't necessarily want to close the account because that may work against you. But is there a way to go from a paid card to downgrade to a no-fee card, and so I always think about that when I'm looking at getting a new credit card. Is there a downgrade path to a no-fee card that I can open up instead? 

24:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now you just made me think of something different. Now, when I bought a car again, I was fortunate enough to have money in the bank and I could have paid cash for that car. However, I opted to put half down and pay the rest of the half on the finance plan, because the finance plan was 1%. I had 1% and it was like literally, I think, over the course of seven years, I paid $500 or something, I don't know. It was like a total of $500 to do that, and the reason why I did that was to gain better credit, because if you don't have any credit, you don't have any credit. 

24:44 You know what I mean you can't get good credit if you don't have any credit. And so when my husband and I got married, we were trying to consolidate credit cards and pay off debt and get that out of under the way, but we realized that you do need to have some credit cards in order to keep good credit and for people to entertain business loans to you. So having good credit is an important thing for your business and, as a matter of fact, I happen to know that when we were buying a home and myself being self-employed right, they looked at my credit card. They looked at my business credit card because they wanted to see what do I pay on a monthly basis? How much money am I putting out? That was part of my certification that I could be part of that mortgage that we were going to get for this house, and so having good credit actually was working against me. 

25:45 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) So what I was told and what I understood to be true about just avoiding credit was not going to serve me for the things that I wanted, in the long run, to buy a house or to get a really nice apartment or qualify for certain things, it requires having credit, and not having any at all was not helping me, and so utilizing credit cards as a tool and respecting it and paying off the credit cards in full or paying on time those kinds of things really do help. So not having credit at all really can hurt you, but utilizing it improperly can hurt you even more. 

26:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, bosses, use your credit wisely to invest in your business and to get extra value. So great discussion. Danielle, thank you so much for joining me today and again, I look forward to our sessions all the time. I look forward to talking with you about money bosses out there. Great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we will both see you next week. Bye. 

26:48 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

 

Discover the art of developing self-awareness and confronting the illusions we create both personally and professionally. Join Anne and Lau as they tackle the challenge of overcoming self-doubt, emphasizing resilience over inherent talent. By embracing our realities and addressing the falsehoods we tell ourselves, you'll learn how profound self-awareness can shape our lives. The BOSSES discuss how trusted companions and self-reflection can shine a light on our paths, leading to greater authenticity and success. Explore practical techniques to turn setbacks into opportunities for growth. We discuss the delicate balance between trusting external advice and listening to personal intuition. 00:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know your voice has the power to move, to persuade, to inspire. Imagine taking that power to its fullest potential. With guidance and expert production, I can help elevate your voice to new heights, making every voice script resonate with your audience. Let's empower your voice together, one session at a time. Find out more at anneganguzza.com. 

00:26 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, anganguza. A VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

00:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my amazing, wonderful friend and co-host, ms Lau Lapides. 

00:59 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Thank, you so much, I'm already getting verklempt. Incredible to be here, as always, love it Law. 

01:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love chatting with you and I have a very interesting topic, I think, today. 

01:12 Because, I love me some Peloton. 

01:14 So when I'm not Pilate-ing, I am Peloton-ing, or I am pre-coring, but I'm Peloton-ing a lot and I have a favorite instructor. I have a couple of favorite instructors, but one of them for those Peloton people who know, cody I love Cody. I was spinning away and Cody said you know, my therapist asked me how do you know when you're lying to yourself, or do you know that you're lying to yourself? And I thought, wow, what a great question. First of all because it really makes you kind of stop in your tracks and think Honestly, laura, throughout my life there are many times that you kind of know, right, you kind of know when you're lying to yourself. Maybe you're in some form of denial, but you're lying to yourself. And I think that we need to delve deep into this Lau today and ask our bosses do you know when you're lying to yourself and what are the stakes in that and how can you get past that? Because I think that to be productive and to really be successful in this business, you need to stop lying to yourself. 

02:20 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Yeah, and I think that there has to be at least a brief bullet hit list of how do you deal with that, Like, how do you even know? How do you start to know what are some of the dead giveaways that you may be lying to yourself? The first one that comes to my mind is do you have or are you aware of? I think you have it, but are you aware of your inner voice? Are you aware of it, do you? 

02:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) hear it? Oh, I hear mine all the time. That's a very interesting question, because I actually thought everybody hears their inner voice. 

02:51 - Intro (Announcement) No. 

02:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But I actually have read that scientific studies say that not everybody has an inner voice. My inner voice talks to me all the time. Oh my gosh, all the time. What about? 

02:59 - Lau Lapides (Guest) you. Yeah, mine is very strong and very loud and I already know all the justifications and lies I tell myself when I hear the voice in order to do something. And that's the next question I have is once you spot that inner voice, what are the common hyperbolic statements or lies, or fibs? That you're coming up with that. Feel really good to you to say in order to void out that voice. 

03:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, first of all, what if you're someone who doesn't have an inner voice? Is that something that you can assess? Can you make an inner voice come out? Maybe people don't define it as an inner voice. Maybe they define it as a belief system, right? Maybe? 

03:40 - Lau Lapides (Guest) they hide it, Maybe they bury it, Maybe they've been shamed to listen to it. There's a lot of reasons why I think people don't discover or find their inner voice. I think one of the things that I've always done I always chalked it up to just being a creative ensemble type of person but I think it is helpful in a sounding board of understanding what is the objective truth for you and your circumstance if you can't discover it on your own through your inner voice. 

04:08 One of the things that I find helpful is surrounding yourself with really incredible people, brilliant people that you know and trust and feel good about sharing certain things with that you can soundboard with and see is it matching what you may be saying internally or not? Because there is a community truth about how people see you, hear you and, especially if they know you, they know your thought process right so they can sort of catch you when you're going off track. 

04:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, it depends on life situations, right, I'm going to say the first inner voice is the truth, right? The inner voice, really, I think, is your truth, and do you listen to your inner voice, meaning, do you know when you're lying, do you know when you're lying to yourself, that kind of thing? So I think that's when you're denying that inner voice from having any say in kind of the truth, or you're in a denial of the truth, or you're in a denial of acknowledging that the truth is going. We're getting really deep here, but you're acknowledging. 

05:08 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Go right there, I'm right with you. 

05:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You're acknowledging that you're not ready for the truth right now. Right, you're not ready for it, because to get through that truth or to listen to that truth may require an effort that is like gargantuan and superhuman to get beyond that truth. And this could be anything. It could be personal, professional. I mean, of course, personal affects professional. But I'm going to kind of focus on the professional, having had an inner voice that I denied through personal issues because I wasn't ready to face them. And so for me it's kind of like you get really good at telling yourself lies, you get really good at justifying why you're not listening to that inner voice. Yes, because it keeps you safe. Right, it keeps you safe in a lot of ways, or it keeps you from I don't know why. Is it that you don't want to look or do the work that's required to get through the truth and to align with the truth? 

06:03 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Well, there could be I mean for psychological reasons, lots of reasons, but I think one deeply psychological common reason that I see in a lot of actors, artists, voiceovers and women is the sabotaging effect of arguing with yourself that you cannot be good enough. 

06:22 It's not possible for you to get this successfully done because of X, y, z, you're not worthy, right, you're not worthy. So therein lies your inner voice. But is the inner voice being honest and truthful, or is the inner voice a sabotage voice? Yeah, yeah, absolutely that. You've created as like an alter ego to help you disqualify, get out of situations you know, qualify things and get you off the hook. I think artists do that. An awful lot is to say all the reasons why they cannot do something versus why they can do something, and after a while of telling yourself those lies, you actually believe them. 

07:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah yeah, I'm not getting work because, right yeah, talk professionally, right Okay, I'm not'm not getting work because, right, you'll talk professionally, right Okay. 

07:05 I'm not a successful voice actor because right, no one's going to hire me because, right, I'm not talented enough, my voice is not good enough, I don't have the right equipment, right, and so therefore, does that allow you to? I've spent all this money and I've gotten nowhere, right? So are you going to quit? Because you're listening right to those lies that you're telling yourself, or the inner voices, your inner self is you right? So we're talking to ourselves. So inner self is you, and inner self could be telling lies that you fabricated. 

07:40 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Or it's the voices that have been with you over your lifetime that are the cacophony of voices that are not accurate or true. Yeah, that you've believed. You've gone down that road and sort of believed that that's who. 

07:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's the role that you are. They've turned into your inner voice, right. 

07:59 - Lau Lapides (Guest) And they've turned into your inner voice, where you pick up the things that you believe that people think or feel about you maybe from your home life or your friendship life or whatever that aren't necessarily an objective truth in the larger world, in the larger context of things, and that, I think, is very, very common Also, especially with women. I think just wanting to please, just being a pleaser, is a big driving force in not listening to your inner voice. 

08:27 Yeah, You're saying, oh I'll just, yeah, they want me to do it this way, I'll just do it this way. Or they're asking me for this, I'll just give it to them and putting your common sense, putting that to the side for the higher purpose of pleasing, yeah, absolutely. 

08:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, that is so, so tough, and I'll tell you what, and I'm not getting into a political discussion, but I will say that external factors also play a part in that inner voice, right. 

08:56 I feel like the nation is tired. Female right and we've had discussions on being a female in this industry or being a female in male-dominated industries. I'm tired. I've been fighting for a long time. I've been fighting for a long time and the inner voice wants to say, right, I fight because I believe certain things to be true and that is my truth. Right, but then the other people feeding into the inner voice you're not good enough or you know what? We're never going to make a difference. Now do I feel like? Am I going back to step zero? And what is it that I need to resolve internally, with my internal voice? That's going to help me to deal right with the external factors that are flying at me in every second of the day, and that's important. 

09:45 - Lau Lapides (Guest) That's an important factor. It is every second of the day and that's important. That's an important factor because when you think about either your parents or whoever raised you when you were young, you're like a little recorder. You're like a sponge. You're picking up language and sound and cadence and everything. You're picking that up from the people around you and that's implanted in you. It's very hard to get that out and stop thinking that and doing that. So it's really again compartmentalizing. Okay, what my lived and learned experience was and still is good, bad and ugly, which everyone experiences. And then where am I as a professional in what I'm choosing to experience and who I'm creating? 

10:24 Someone was telling an anecdote about this and I thought it was brilliant and he said I get annoyed. He's like in his 40s. He's a professional, whatever it was, like a psychiatrist or something. He said I go home and my parents treat me exactly like I'm 12 again, they talk to me as if I'm 12. Mine do Right and you got to love that right. But it annoys him to death because he says I have a family, I have children, I have a successful career. It's like they haven't graduated to that level. But that's where I'm saying you have to compartmentalize all these players in your life that speak to you in a certain way, sure, that code that linguistically code shift right, that say it's okay, they knew me at different times in my life good times, bad times, young, older. Now I have to amalgamate. What does that all mean in my voice? In my voice as to who I am and what I want to be? That's hard. That's the next step. Yeah, that's the next step. 

11:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean it's interesting because, as we are talking about the inner voice, is the inner voice really what you think or is it what others think, right? Or is it a combination of both of them? And also, is your inner voice something that you're doing to escape responsibility or escape owning up to a fact that maybe you haven't done everything you can to be successful in voice acting? And then, if that's the case, right, you have to try to ask yourself why, right, why am I afraid of success? And that's a big thing, I mean, look, you can be just as afraid of success, if not more, as a failure, right? Are you afraid to fail? Are you afraid of success? And I'll tell you what. Are you afraid of hard work? Yeah, and once you're there, whatever you've deemed to be your success, right. What's stopping you from growing more than that? Or are you complacent? 

12:09 For me, my personality is I cannot be stagnant. I cannot. I need to continue to grow my business. I need to continually evolve. If I don't, I feel like I'm failing, and for me, that's the motivation I need to push myself. Now, am I afraid of hard work? Me, no, I am not. 

12:25 But some people might be, some people might think, well, I just want, I just I'm tired, I've got a lot of other things happening and voice acting should not have been this hard for me, right In the beginning. I'm the first person to admit voice acting was hard for me, and it was one of those things where I said to myself God, like, maybe I shouldn't be doing it. If it's this hard, right, shouldn't it just come naturally? Shouldn't I just have a God-given talent? Shouldn't this just flow for me? And over years of continually saying, well, I'm not used to failing For me myself. My personality is like to just keep going until I don't fail, figuring out as I go, I ultimately decided, yeah, damn it, it's hard, voice acting is hard. I think it's very rare that you have anybody that has just an innate talent for reading words off a page and making them like sound amazing. 

13:09 - Lau Lapides (Guest) I got to be honest. I don't think anyone in any of our entertainment profession has it easy. 

13:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't. I don't either. I really don't. Just because you and I have been in the industry for many, many, many years right and we've been deemed successful, doesn't mean that we feel successful all the time right, doesn't mean that we feel successful all the time right or that we consider ourselves successful at any given moment. 

13:29 - Lau Lapides (Guest) No, that's like an illusion that people want to think is a truism, is a truth. When it's not a human truth, it's not a human thing. Maybe it's a robot thing, but it's not a human thing Because we're always going through situations in our life that we're reacting to, as well as human beings in the world that we're reacting to as well as human beings in the world that we're reacting to as well. 

13:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And things change. 

13:51 - Lau Lapides (Guest) And things change. But I always say, like, what's the difference? What's the main difference between someone who's young and amateur early stage and someone who is a vetted professional? What's the main difference? And it's not talent, it's the fact that we all get down. We all fall down. We all's not talent, it's the fact that we all get down, we all fall down, we all get in trouble, but we're able to get up, brush ourself off and move on. 

14:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Get back on the horse and make use of that. 

14:13 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Yeah, really make use of that, whereas many are not able to do that. It's holding them down, it's holding them back. There's that stone right on top of them that they're not able to move. So that voice is like as heavy as any equipment that could be out there. It's heavier. It can be either a burden or it can be enlightenment. 

14:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's up to you. I love what you're saying about the failure Again, like if you failed and you've allowed that inner voice to say I am a failure, right, without taking benefit from the fail, I'd say get back up on the horse, turn the fail around and spin that into positive things. What positive things can you take from that right? 

14:53 So, if there is the dialogue happening where I'm not good enough right, I failed, I didn't get that gig right, I was not chosen right, they didn't pick my voice, I didn't nail the audition. Take that failure and I need you to reframe it right and restructure it so that it becomes a learning moment that can be turned into success. I mean, I think that's really like how do you know when you're lying to yourself? Acknowledge it first. I think that's first and foremost. 

15:19 Once you acknowledge it right. You then have the power to take that truth and take that knowledge and reframe it, and then reframe it to successful. 

15:30 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Reframe it and how do you use, how do you utilize that reframing to be helpful in your life and in others' lives? So it becomes wisdom. It doesn't just sit in a place where it's a bad experience or it's an experience that was a great experience. It becomes a nugget of wisdom for you. 

15:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That becomes your proverb of how you live your life and how you utilize that in your life and we're speaking, so I think, so ethereal, and I want to kind of bring this down to like okay, I might have a student who's come to me and said well, I spent thousands and thousands of dollars on this demo and now everybody tells me it's a piece of garbage and I guess I just didn't know or I failed or that's it, that's why I'm not successful. So I always try to tell people look, life is a learning journey, right, and what sort of energy is positive or helpful? If you're going to sit there and berate yourself for getting a demo that maybe some people don't like, right, or that you don't like or doesn't serve you, that energy is wasted on yourself, like nobody else really cares. To, be quite honest, right, turn that, reframe it around, say I've made an investment, I have now learned and know that maybe I wasn't ready to make that demo. 

16:38 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Maybe it's learning money for you. Maybe you had to learn that Exactly that's your investment money for your business. 

16:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. So you turn that around and you learn, right, you go get yourself a different coach. You learn until you feel because I believe, right, I believe we all know and then say, well, I trusted my coach. Well, I think there's also that inner voice, right, that says I may be not ready, but I'm going to put my trust in my coach and I get it. Guys, I get it. But also I think there's an inner voice in you that says maybe I wasn't ready for that right, but my coach says I am. And so you didn't listen to that voice? Right, you don't know that you're lying to yourself, right, when you're saying something doesn't feel, right, I don't feel ready. 

17:17 - Lau Lapides (Guest) That's the lie comes in, that's the pleasing, because you want to please your coach, you want to please your whoever, and say are you happy with me, are you proud of me? Did I do what you wanted me to do? Yeah, right. And that's where you have to start saying okay, they're my trusted advisor. I pay them for that, absolutely. But I can't put them all in one basket? 

17:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, exactly, instead of being completely angry and saying it's all their fault, right, In reality. Right, you need to listen to that voice that, hopefully, I mean maybe you did completely put all your trust in them, but then again, now that you've learned right, now that you've learned from it, now you know, maybe I won't put all my trust in my coaches and I will take that little voice in my head that said maybe you're not ready. Right, they said I was, but I don't feel ready and I didn't tell them about it so that they could reason with me and say no, really you are, or maybe you're not right. That's just the demo readiness. Right, like, what about the audition? What about the person that auditioned and didn't get the gig? 

18:21 - Lau Lapides (Guest) There's so many lies that we can tell ourselves about this right. Oh, we somehow always believe that voice. 

18:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We always listen to that voice and believe that voice, Right? Oh well, all right. 

18:31 - Intro (Announcement) I voice. We always listen to that voice and believe that voice, right? 

18:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh well, all right, I did the audition and I must have sucked, right, I sucked, so I didn't get the job. There's the lie. There's the lie that you tell yourself Now. You don't know, right, you don't know that you sucked. 

18:34 I mean, maybe you do, maybe internally, you kind of know, oh, I haven't really coached a lot, maybe I should get somebody else's opinion to see, because I haven't developed an ear yet. So maybe it's something that somebody else can help me with. Maybe I don't suck, maybe I just need somebody else to give me some tips, or I need some additional coaching, right, or I nailed it, and then I heard the commercial and God, I can't believe they got hired Right. So there's the lie. How did they get hired? You know what I mean, and so how are you resolving that? 

19:06 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Right, Right, I think the discipline to say, okay, I want to always pay attention to the inner voice inside. But a very famous neurosurgeon said this and I thought it was so brilliant I believe it was David Amen, he's like on the speaking circuit as a neurosurgeon. He said believe it or not, you don't have to believe everything you think. And I was like whoa, astonishing, Because we somehow think if we think it then it must be true. Yeah, agreed, but we're forgetting all the immense biases, experiences, sort of mental slurs that we go through in our life that help formulate those thoughts. So that's not to say that you don't understand an inner truth or have an inner voice that can't lead you in the right direction. It's just to say you don't have to believe everything you're thinking. 

19:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, you can manifest. I'm a big believer in manif. Yeah, you can manifest. I'm a big believer in manifesting. You can create. You can create with your thoughts. You can re-envision, you can reinvent, you can redirect. I absolutely believe that, with your thoughts Right, like they are so, so powerful, and of course, that audition that you didn't get right, and then you're like, oh, I must be no good, don't believe that. Right, you're telling yourself aloud and think here are all the possibilities that Ann and Lau have said a hundred times in an audition demolition. There's many, many reasons why people get the job or don't get the job right, and not all of them are directly under your control. I mean absolutely. So maybe you didn't suck, you are good and that's okay, and it's okay that you didn't get the job right. So you audition, you forget it, right, and ultimately you don't believe the lie, that you're telling yourself that you're not good enough for it and whatever you do, you must discipline yourself to not shed and forecast everything you're thinking. 

20:55 - Lau Lapides (Guest) They call it oversharing, but it really is forecasting what exactly is in your mind and you're doing that to purge yourself of guilt. Oh yeah, oh, let's collect 500 for this hour. I'm telling you, this is like good stuff. Don't purge on other people. Don't go through that catharsis. That's a private journey for you, Because guess what the casting director or the business person in front of you is thinking why did you just say that? I don't see that at all. What's happening? Are you okay? Like literally they're thinking, are you okay? Because you're forecasting something onto me that I don't even know what you're talking about Right Now? You and I are coaches. We catch that stuff and we try to remedy that. But you do it on the wrong people. You can never go back and make that impression again on them because they'll always. I remember Barbara Corcoran. I look up to her a lot as a mentor in business and she's a more mature woman. 

21:51 on Shark Tank if you ever watch Shark Tank, yeah absolutely she says I always Rolodex in my mind, whether you agree with this or not. I just thought it was very interesting the way she put this. Whenever someone, especially a woman, breaks down crying in front of me when they're pitching their product, I always kind of roll a dex that in my mind that that's not someone I can work with. Now, that's not to say that you can't cry. It's not to say you can't feel emotion. You should feel real emotion and not hide that. However, when you forecast and overshare those emotions with people you don't have relationships with yet, they Rolodex you, they compartmentalize you in a place where they say I don't know what they're telling themselves. 

22:30 I don't know what they're thinking and feeling, but it's not my experience of them, so from a business standpoint it can be very harmful. 

22:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, that translates right into social media Just saying right your responses, right Whether people respond like share or not, right your response. Is somebody's going to Rolodex that response in their brain and say I don't think I can work with that person based upon what they just said. Happens every day, every moment of the day. 

22:58 - Intro (Announcement) Yeah, all the time, all the time. 

22:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And so understand that as well. Right, and so if you are oversharing, right Again, in a professional setting, especially, like you said, I think the key is with people that you do not have relationships with yet, right, People that do not know do not know your perspective where that's coming from, right. And even if they do know where that's coming from, where that's coming from right, and even if they do know where that's coming from, they may Rolodex it and say I don't think I can work with that person. Right, and I get that, and we get that too as coaches oh yeah, oh, I can't work with that person. 

23:28 - Lau Lapides (Guest) No, I can't work with that. And that's like you trying to find the jury. That's the jury, that's the audience, that's the of people that will agree with you on what you're saying. That's not the place to do it Right, and it's not even an objective truth in any way. It's just a whole bunch of people who may be agreeing with you on whatever you're saying. So you have to be careful. You have to like be careful in who you trust with your inner voice and with your inner self. 

23:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I'm going to make this educated guess that when I ask the question, how do you know when you're lying to yourself? Right, I think you have to start with. How do you know when you're lying to yourself, when something is not necessarily going the way that you want it to right? I think that's one telltale way to start really looking inward and asking okay, so why are things not happening? Why am I not getting the gig? Why am I not getting the gig? Why am I not getting any business? Why am I not successful? Or why do I feel like I'm not successful? Asking yourself those questions and just sitting quiet in the moment and really thinking about what are the steps to achieve success? Why are you not getting that gig? 

24:33 Well, to get the gig, certain factors have to take place. You have to have talent right, but not always right. You have to have talent right, but not always right. You have to have talent, you have to be in the right demographic, you have to be in the head of the casting director, which none of us are. So there's certain factors that are beyond our control. And when that happens, we have to also put in our head that there are certain factors beyond our control. So maybe we didn't get the gig because we have no control. 

24:55 The daughter of a close friend. They gave the job to her, versus they changed directions and went with a male instead of female, or whatever. It is right. Understand that there are things beyond your control and that's okay, rather than I am not good enough, right, right, and taking things. Why am I not getting more work, right? Why am I not getting more work? 

25:14 Well, sit down and take a look at. How much coaching have you had, right? How much training have you had? Are you as skilled as you can be? Are you marketing yourself as much as you can be? Why, if not, are you not marketing yourself, right? Well, you don't have the know-how, you don't have the money to invest in a marketer. You don't have the money, right. Why are these things happening? And really sit down and just I would say, write it down. Right, write it down. What are the things that you're not achieving, that you want to achieve, and what are the steps that you need to get there, or what are the conditions in which, when they're met, you will have success in that or not success? And then really sit down and ask yourself to be truthful right. How much of this is under your control? How much of this is other people saying this is the way it is and influencing your inner voice, or how much of it is your own self-sabotage? 

26:04 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Yeah, and what you're really talking about here, which is, I think, the nugget here. The bottom line takeaway is hold yourself accountable to finding your voice, listening to it and understanding it right. So, for instance, if there's danger for you, if there's an instinctive acknowledgement that you're making, don't just ignore it and do it anyway. Don't just ignore it and overlook it anyway. You oftentimes will go wrong when you do that right, or when someone gives you feedback and you have to actively listen and absorb that feedback, and they say 5, 6, 10, 15 times. I don't know why you just said that. To me. It's not true or accurate. You should stop doing that. Stop doing it Like you've got to stop the behaviors. 

26:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, now you go to external sources. Right, when you've listened to your inner voice and your inner voice is not helpful, right, that's when you turn to your accountability buddies, your trusted colleagues. 

27:01 - Intro (Announcement) Or sabotaging. 

27:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) yes, Right, your trusted colleagues, and you bounce that off of them, and then that is what's going to help, hopefully, reframe right. You're lying to yourself, right, and your inner voice that can be lying to you or sabotaging you, whatever that is, wow. That was deep. By the way, vaughn and I are not we are not in the business of mental health, however. This is just based on our own experiences, so, please, take what we say with a grain of salt. 

27:28 We're sharing our experiences to hopefully help you with yours, because we are not therapists, so please keep that in mind, and we're just here to share. 

27:39 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It's very true. And I have to say, if you're in business and studying this kind of work over years and years and years, you'll find that the more quality the script, the more quality the copy, the more they have something in common with great writers, great thinkers, great philosophers, great psychologists right? So we don't need to be like a clinical psychologist to understand the analysis of a line from Shakespeare. Like we can figure that out at a certain point and say how does that connect to my life, my lived experience, how does that connect to me uniquely as a person? Is that part of my voice and I mean my inner voice and my mechanical voice as well? Yeah Right, and that's what we call finding our voice. Voice and my mechanical voice as well? Yeah Right, and that's what we call finding our voice. Like finding your authentic voice means like doing that work, doing that homework. 

28:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Good stuff. Oh my gosh, Woo Woo. I'm tired now. My inner voice needs a break. We need a latte after that, or something I know. All right. Well, before my latte, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom Lau. I love you. It's been amazing. 

28:46 - Lau Lapides (Guest) I love you. 

28:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And my inner voice says I love Lau, I love Annie and I love Lau and I love myself and I love my inner voice, even when it misbehaves. 

28:56 - Lau Lapides (Guest) And we love all of you listening, and that's why we share these inner thoughts. 

28:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, Thank you guys. You have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye. 

29:06 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

 

2025 is the year to become "acronimble" by familiarizing yourself with one of the most important acronyms in the industry: CRM, which stands for Customer Relationship Management. The BOSSES discuss how the right CRM tool can streamline how you engage with clients, leading to better organization, and more business opportunities. Learn how to maintain meaningful connections without constantly reinventing the wheel, and discover the strategies that help you organize client interactions to promote continued work. Through personal stories and practical advice, The BOSSES highlight the evolution from old-school Rolodexes to cutting-edge digital solutions, empowering you to manage your client interactions like a BOSS. 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, amazing voiceover talents. Do you ever wish boss marketing was as fun as it was being behind the mic? Well, check out my VO Boss Blast. It's designed to automate and make your marketing simpler. You'll benefit from your very own target marketed list, tailored to meet your goals and your brand. The VoBoss Blast Find out more at V. The VO Boss Blast Find out more at voboss.com. 

00:27 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

00:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Bosses series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am the BOSS with the VOS. That's the voiceover strategist, Mr Tom Dheere. Hello. 

00:59 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Tom Hello. So that's boss VOS. 

01:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Boss, VOS. 

01:03 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) The BOSS VOSS, boss VOSS. 

01:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) The BOSS BOSS with the V-O-S. 

01:06 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) BOSS with the V-O-S. 

01:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you know, tom, let's continue the acronym party, shall we? Yes, please, Because I'll tell you what it's the beginning of the year, I'm going to manifest multiple new contacts and you know what I need to be able to keep track of those contacts in a BOSS CRM. 

01:26 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Whoa, whoa Boss, boss CRM. What do you? 

01:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) think Boss, boss CRM I like that. And you know, people ask me about what CRM do I use? What CRM do I use? And so let's talk about 2025 CRM. 

01:40 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Fantastic idea, anne. First off, just to make sure everybody knows what we're talking about, CRM is Customer Relationship Manager. It is a fancy way of saying some form of system where you store your client information potential clients, current clients, past clients' information which you can use as a home base for your marketing strategies. So you use the CRM to develop relationships with customers. So just make sure everybody's on the same page. 

02:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Then you could be CRM BOSS, you could be a CRM boss. 

02:17 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) You could be a crim boss. No, we'll stick with CRM. 

02:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But CRM reminds me of crumble cookies. Oh wait, now I'm going off. 

02:28 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I diverge into a tangent of cookies. I was thinking crumb, like the god that Conan the Barbarian worships. All right, we're really getting off the rails here. 

02:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I can see where my brain is versus yours. 

02:36 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) You must be hungrier than I am. 

02:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love cookies, me too. So, speaking of CRMs, so, tom, let's talk about why, first of all, is it good to have a CRM? Why do we need one? For a boss business? 

02:51 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) It is critical for voice actors to have a CRM, because I tell my students that my definition of marketing is the art and science of developing meaningful relationships. That's what it is. You want meaningful relationships with clients. Now, we all know why you want meaningful relationships with clients. Now we all know why we want meaningful relationships with clients and they know too is because we want them to give us money to talk Like. We understand that, they understand that. And at the same time, it's complicated and there's a lot of moving parts to all of this stuff. 

03:24 Having a CRM well, why you want to have it is because you don't want to have to reinvent the wheel every time. You want to get voiceover work. Also, it's a relationship manager, since you are trying to develop relationships. Relationships have beginnings. They start in a certain way Hi, my name is so-and-so Nice to meet you Handshake, firm handshake and all that stuff. And then it's the getting to know you stuff develop an understanding of each other, what you can offer each other, what you both need from each other, and developing trust. Trust is one of the most important components of any relationship, be it personal or professional. So why have a CRM? You do it to develop trust and nurture relationships with clients. 

04:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And Tom, can I just say I love that. Can I just say, as a girl with about a million and a half and I kid you not a million and a half unread emails in my Gmail, if I don't have a place that I can go to see where are my customers, right, if I'm not doing something to organize that, basically emails just fly through my inbox and so I might forget that I was in contact with my client maybe a month ago and I needed to follow up with them for a particular reason. Maybe they were saying let me get back to you on this and I need to follow up. And so if I just relied on my trusty email system which, by the way, has a million and a half unread email messages and guys in my defense, right, I got a Gmail account in 1990-something Okay, how many years is that? Thirty-some-odd years, a long time. 

05:04 When it began, I was one of the first like few hundred people that had a Gmail account and, because Google is a search engine, I just never deleted anything. So I have records, by the way, from my clients, if I want to. I have records going back to like 1992 or 96. I can't remember which year but yeah, that's amazing. 

05:21 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I know it's crazy. 

05:22 That's amazing, but fun stuff Another thing to keep in mind is that, for a moment, take out the word relationship and replace it with the term sales funnel. Yeah, a good CRM helps get voice seekers into the sales funnel and pushes them through the sales funnel. There's different permutations and levels for different people, but for me, my sales funnel terms are brand awareness, consideration, decision, advocacy. Brand awareness you send the cold email Hi, so-and-so explainer video company. My name's Tom Dheere. I'm an explainer video narrator. 

05:57 Now they know that you exist, which means if they open the email, clicked on the link to your website, listened to your demos, downloaded them and replied hey, thanks for sending this, we'll keep you in mind for future consideration. They are now keeping you hopefully top of mind the next time a voiceover gig comes along that you're right for. So that's part of using the CRM to keep moving them through the consideration part of the sales funnel to the decision where they actually have a voiceover that you'd be right for and they remember you and they have your demos and they have your contact information and they actually reply to you. Hey, we think we've got something for you. Could you please read this script and let us know how much you'd charge for this? You do that and then you get the booking and then it goes into the advocacy part of the sales funnel where you did such a great job that they will remember you the next time a project comes along, because you did such a great job on the last project that you worked on. 

07:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love how you just explained the sales funnel because I was going to say, like most voice actors are not necessarily aware, you went through the technical aspects of a traditional, like marketing sales funnel. Here I always have to go to my lipstick. 

07:13 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Okay, let's go to your lipstick. 

07:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's not in Ganguzza, unless I got my—okay. First of all, I have to have a need. I have to have a need, right, and so I may or may not be aware of different brands of lipstick, right, but because I've used this lipstick before, I'm going to start with my Chanel. Right, I have my Chanel lipstick and they're top of mind because literally they sit right here on my desk, because when I do my podcast video, I've got to make sure I have my matching lipstick. 

07:40 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Oh, your lipstick matches your headphones. 

07:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, brand awareness. That's one thing. What's the next step in the funnel there, Tom? 

07:47 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Consideration. 

07:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Consideration. Now, what are the factors that are going to have me consider? Now, just equate this to your voiceover business guys. Basically, this is the layman's terms of like okay, so what is it? The considerations of? Why am I going to buy this brand? Right? 

08:01 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, what are the advertising and marketing techniques that that company is going to use to remind you how awesome their lipstick is? 

08:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, exactly. And also, what is my experience with the lipstick? Right? So I'm on their mailing list, right? And does Chanel go on sale? Well, no, but that's also brand awareness too. So we know that certain things don't go on sale. Chanel doesn't usually go on sale, but anyways, I keep up with them with their mailings and that's how they keep top of mind with me, but pretty much I also use it all the time and it sits there, so I visually see it. So it's either in my inbox or it's sitting here in my desk, right? What's the next step after consideration? 

08:37 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Decision. 

08:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Decision Okay, do I have the money at this time? Do I have the need? Do I have the money to buy this? Right. And I make that decision. I click on the email Right Because they say, oh, new colors are out and I'm like, oh, I could use a new color red Right. So I make that decision. I click, go to the website and then what's after? 

08:57 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) the decision I buy it, right. Advocacy, you buy it and then advocacy. 

08:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So if I buy it and I love the color, oh my God, oh guys, have you seen? All right, all my friends, I'm going to say did you see this color? Isn't this color amazing? Right, and I might even throw up like a social media. You know, like, ooh, branding awareness. Anne Ganguzza Voice Talent, right, branding awareness. I love this new color red, because you got to feel confident in the booth so that you can voice confidently. And so there we go, I'm going to advocate for the brand. So not only am I advocating for my brand, but I'm advocating for this brand as well. So that kind of just took you through the sales funnel with, like, just a traditional lipstick. Sorry, tom, you could maybe use a flannel shirt as an example. 

09:35 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well, I'm a Maybelline man myself. 

09:37 Oh, okay, there you go, so I want to take exactly what you said and now let's look at it from the lipstick maker company's perspective. 

09:46 They've got people that they want to buy their lipstick and they want them to love their lipstick and come back for more. So they have their own CRM and through their television advertising, through their radio advertising, through their digital and streaming advertising, through their print advertising on the side of a bus or in a magazine of some sort, they are trying to get people to be aware of them, brand awareness, and keep them top of mind, which is why there's always kinds of print and digital and other forms of advertising. And if they get you on that mailing list, they can send out emails at regular intervals based on people who haven't bought their lipstick yet and people who possibly have bought their lipstick yet. They also look at did they open this email, Did they use a promo code to try the lipstick or get a discount, even though they don't do discounts, which is very interesting because a lot of brands position themselves we are so valuable and we are so coveted, we don't need to discount. We don't need to do that. 

10:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I did that for many years. It's very interesting for Chanel to do that. It's an interesting psychology behind it. 

10:55 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) There is a psychology. 

10:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There are a lot of times where, if something is so cheap, I'll be like oh, I'm not so sure about the quality of that. I'd actually rather pay a little bit more money because I feel like I'm getting better quality. And that's the whole like. Know your worth, guys. Right, what should you be charging? Charge what you're worth versus going cheap, right. 

11:12 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) More expensive equals superior from a branding and psychological point of view. So Chanel, chanel, right. Chanel sees all of us, potential customers, brand awareness, consideration, actual customers, decision and advocacy, and they use CRMs to get lipstick buyers into the sales funnel and push them through. Exactly Translating that to voice actors. We want to do the same exact thing, right, and a good, robust, interactive CRM can help us get voice seekers into the sales funnel and push them through. 

11:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, and you'll be able to know at what point in the funnel they are at Exactly. A good CRM will tell you exactly where they are in the sales funnel so you'll know what to do for the next steps. Maybe they need an additional email, maybe they need a phone call, maybe you'll put out some more social media advertisements, that sort of a thing. So really depending on where they are in the CRM is when you make that determination and decision on what to do. So now, tom, the question is we know why we need a CRM right and we understand the sales funnel and all voice actors need to understand that sales funnel, because we are selling our products, we're selling our voices. 

12:17 Let's talk about actual CRMs. I mean, there's many of them out there. I know people constantly ask me which ones I use and I think the answer may surprise you unless you've listened to a podcast of mine before but I don't use any one. I use a multitude of CRMs in combination with one another because myself personally, I don't find one that does everything for me that I need. What about you, tom? 

12:38 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, different CRMs fulfill different needs. Now, what we are talking about, and what most voice actors ask us about, is the software or app. 

12:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) If you have a Rolodex from the 70s or 80s or 90s. 

12:58 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) That's a CRM. Yep, yep, yep, A spreadsheet, A spreadsheet. Exactly that was the very next thing I was going to say A spreadsheet is a form of CRM. 

13:04 Yeah, I had an index card box. So in 1995, when I got my first voiceover demo and my coach told me to cold call because that's back then pre-social media, pre-pay-to-play, free home recording that was pretty much the only thing you could do. I would use a CRM of index cards and I had those little you know with the little tabs that would separate them into production companies, recording studios, advertising agencies, so on and so forth. That was a CRM and then that evolved into spreadsheets. I do still use spreadsheets regularly, but I also use an actual software app CRM. 

13:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Myself as well. 

13:44 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Now, neither Anne nor I are getting paid to sponsor or affiliate or promote any particular CRM, so we are going to be talking to you about this purely through what our experience has been without hawking, and then we get a little kickback. 

14:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I'm going to tell you, my first CRM well before voiceover was a Rolodex, and then, ultimately, it turned into a spreadsheet so that I could keep track of my customers, and that was based off of. You know, I started doing all my accounting online right through my accounting software, and so it was my customer base, right, that was thrown into a spreadsheet and then I would track things that way. So, you guys, crms don't have to be expensive. They can be very simple and it can be whatever you're most comfortable with, and that's what I started with. And then it ended up being my Gmail, right? My Gmail, where I would separate things into folders for different clients and then keep track of them that way, and then a couple of plugins for the Chrome browser that worked within Gmail to help me keep top of mind with them, and then, tom, I'm sure we'll get into the other ones that we use. What? 

14:48 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) about you. 

14:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You started as a spreadsheet right. 

14:50 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) My start is the index card box, which then turned into spreadsheets, and then 2003,. I started using Act. You remember Act by Sage? I used that one for almost 10 years, so yeah, around 2013. And I think it either got discontinued or something weird happened with it, or I didn't like the features, or they started charging too much. I don't remember what it was. Then I did move to Gmail as well. 

15:17 I'd been using Gmail as an email account for a while, but then I started to use it as an actual CRM. One thing that's nice is that you can use what? Is it G-Sync or Google Sync? So I synchronize my Gmail with my Outlook folders, so I have Outlook which is how I manage all my email. 

15:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I have Gmail folders. 

15:40 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Right, and this is the great thing about it. I have Gmail folders, but they automatically sync with Outlook every time. So if you look at Gmail, and you look at the Outlook folders. The folders are exactly the same. So if I move one to one thing in one, it moves it to the one thing in the other, which means if I'm at my desktop, on my laptop, on my tablet or on my phone. 

16:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Outlook is amazing. 

16:02 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Outlook is amazing. Anything I do with Gmail or Outlook, it automatically synchronizes with all of my devices. 

16:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) In my defense, I would have Outlook as my most favorite email client ever and when I was working in the corporate world I had an Outlook account. And when I left the corporate world to go into voiceover full-time, I no longer had an Outlook server right to go to and Gmail at the time wasn't syncing up with Outlook nicely, or Outlook wasn't syncing up with Gmail nicely, so I literally got used to using just Gmail. Okay, but it's funny because my husband does use Gmail with Outlook and he just filters everything into his Outlook because Outlook is just wonderful visually, it's just a nice way to organize things in folders. But I've gotten so used to my Gmail in folders that I'm really used to and filtering. I have automatic filtering and that sort of thing, but I totally love Outlook. 

16:51 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Right, I'm looking at the bottom of my desktop. For me it's Google Workplace Sync, because I have a paid Google Workspace account. And Google Workspace is great. 

16:59 It does all kinds of fun things. 

17:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I can do it now. 

17:02 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, and I never even thought about Gmail as a CRM that I'm using now because I have a folder for every client in Gmail, because every time I have any kind of correspondence with any client, once the correspondence is over, I drag that email into that client folder. Now do I use that specifically to market out of? No, but it is a robust, legit CRM because, like, for example I'll give you a perfect example 2019, a potential client reached out to me and said hey, I'm developing this app, I'm getting a grant, I've got the level one grant for it, so I've got enough money to pay you to do this with the app and then, once we get that done, then we're going to apply for a level two grant. So I did the work in 2019 and 2020. We had an email exchange in 2021. And then a few weeks ago, three years later, the client said hey. 

17:53 I got the level two grant. We're ready to keep going. 

17:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yep love that. And at first I'm like who? 

17:57 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) the hell is this? Because it's been three years? But then I'm like. I looked at the email and then I'm like but you can go back. I went back and I looked in Gmail slash Outlook and I saw the folder with that client and all of our correspondences dating back to 2019 were there. 

18:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know it's wonderful. This is also really good, and files, yeah, and everything. 

18:17 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) What's also good is often like I'll have a client and years will go by just like that and they'll say hey, I've got another explainer for you Charge same as last time. And I'll be like I don't remember, but my CRM does, because I look in, I see the email and last time we charged this, and then I can make a decision yeah, that's good. 

18:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Or it's been a few years. So now I search engine and again, I'm an authority on that because I have a million and a half unread email messages. And, by the way, they're unread because what I do is I subscribe. Just for those people that are wondering, I subscribe to every corporate list, every corporate list, because I want to learn as much about how companies that I want to voice for market to their customers, and so I sign up for a lot of mailing lists and I just let it filter through so I can see how they market. And that's honestly how I learned marketing Tom really through just everybody else and looking at everybody else. So I don't have a problem with not having an empty inbox I know some people do but again, I must have probably, I want to say, a good 300 folders within my Gmail. 

19:17 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Oh yeah, Me too I have hundreds. 

19:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, at least, and I have rules that filter emails coming in. 

19:24 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Absolutely. Looking at my inbox, right now I have 14 emails in my professional inbox the Tom and Tom Dheere inbox. 

19:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I have more than that and that's cool. 

19:32 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) But, like I said, when I'm done with the conversation I drag it into the client's folder and I've got this archive. For what did we do? How much did we charge, like all this stuff. But I think, anne, people want to know which app software-y type CRMs do we recommend. So what do you use these days? 

19:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Okay. So in addition to my Gmail, I use multiple because it depends on what I'm working with. So right now I have a Wix website and I have the VO Peeps website. I have the VO Boss website. Obviously, I've got Anne Ganguzza. 

20:00 So I've got three main brands where I have websites, and so for each of those I have the Wix CRM. So I have people who subscribe to Anne Ganguzza, people who subscribe to VO Peeps, people that subscribe to VO Boss. Each one of them on the Wix website has its CRM utilized by Wix. Because people subscribe, they get placed in the CRM there, which is great because then I can send emails to those lists. I can also check and see if I've sent an email out to a list, I can see how many people have opened it, who've clicked on it and who've actually purchased, and it really has a nice series of accounts for that. And also I can just work from my contact list to send emails and categorize them as clients, categorize them as, let's say, coaching students or however I want to do it. So Wix is my first. 

20:48 I have three really for each domain and then I also use ActiveCampaign because I use the VO Boss Blast that I sell as well to direct market to companies. I have a list of over 90,000 creative companies, advertising agencies, rosters, production companies, and so that is part of that marketing package. And so I have ActiveCampaign that I use to house the contacts. Now, most software and you'll agree, tom will charge based on how many contacts you have in there. So, at least for ActiveCampaign, I have like 200,000 contacts in ActiveCampaign and so I pay a hefty price for that and they charge per contact. But I'm doing that because I've got a list of 90,000 and I've splitting that list up and doing marketing for other VO bosses and so I spend a lot of money on that product. So between the two Wix, well, three on that product. So between the two Wix, well three, gmail, wix and ActiveCampaign. I've got three CRMs that I'm utilizing for different needs Cool. 

21:48 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Like we've already established, I use Gmail and I do use spreadsheets for very niche-y genres like political, because I like to see in one space who they are, what their contact is, when did I reach out? Did they open the email, did they reply, did I get on their roster, did I book? And then that stuff eventually makes its way into my CRM. Like Anne, tomdeercom and VOStrategistcom are both Wix-based sites, so I have two separate CRMs. The TomDeer CRM is obviously for voiceover clients, the VO Strategist CRM is for students and I have different tactics and strategies and I have different sales funnels and workflows for each of those and they both work great. For many years I also I remembered I used to use MailChimp and before that I used Vertical Response and they were both great they were both great. 

22:41 But the one Vertical Response and they were both great. They were both great, but the one the CRM that I was using religiously before I fully migrated to Wix was Cloze. C-l-o-z-e. 

22:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) This is a fantastic CRM. I know the name. 

22:52 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Just vision this you wake up in the morning, you get an email in your inbox saying, hey, these are the people you haven't reached out to in three months, and then you can click on that name and then it takes you to cloze and it'll say oh, would you like to use one of the email templates that you created? You click on the template and you look at based on what genre of voiceover they cast, where they are in the sales funnel, and it already it populates it with their name. You can obviously do a little extra personalization as you see fit. Click send. Then you'll get a notification if they open the email. You'll get a notification if they clicked on any links in the email and it has a project manager. So if you, for example, narrate long-form e-learning or an audio book, you can set up benchmarks for like audio book record and deliver the first 15 minutes, get approval for the first 15 minutes, record chapter one, record chapter two, record chapter 20, send them an invoice, do corrections, market that this book is now on sale, and so on and so forth. It's fantastic. It's only like 200 something a month. 

23:56 And and did not know this before I say it is I just realized that you can rent my video Clothes for Voice Actors at voestrategistcom. Right now it's a rentable video, so you can stream it for $5 for 72 hours. You can just rent it. Most of my videos are 20 bucks, but that's one of the videos that I'm promoting for five bucks and Ann didn't even know that and I didn't even think about that when we were like what are we going to talk about this month? So when we were like what are we going to talk about this month? So yeah, so if you go to veostrategistcom, go to the video section, you can rent it for $5. 

24:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now one thing I just want to say, tom, is like, no matter what CRM you use, it does take some time to set up. I mean, there is some work involved in setting up a CRM and getting your contacts in there. I had tried Nimble for a while, but Nim based their pricing on the size of your mailbox and, of course, with over 1 million unread emails, it was prohibitively expensive. Now you said, tom, for the low price of only $200 a month, which may or may not be something that people have in their budget. But I will say that that's really nice. That Cloze will say hey, look, you haven't contacted these people in three months. I think that's wonderful. 

24:57 Right now I have like a boomerang app that's on my Chrome browser and, I think, gmail. Now you can schedule emails and if you need to respond, you'll notice it'll come back, say, hey, you haven't responded to this person in five days. So there's kind of that built into it. But just know that a CRM, no matter what you do, if you get one, that you're going to pay a monthly fee. I think Nimble was like 20 bucks and then they're like no, with your blah, blah, blah, it's going to cost you a hundred and I'm like I'm not going to pay a hundred dollars, I've already got most of what I need anyways. 

25:26 You really need to just assess what your needs are and then figure out what works for you, because you don't have to pay anything. I don't pay anything right now. Well, I do. I should say that I pay for Wix and I pay for ActiveCampaign, but depending on what is comfortable for you and what will help you to stay top of mind and keep yourself top of mind, because sometimes I'll forget. Oh gosh, I should have responded, or I should reach out to this client, because gosh knows you could be losing work if you forget to. I've got clients who say, yes, I'm going to buy this, or I want to come back to this, and then, if you follow up, sometimes it's just that little nudge that is top of mind, reminding that we'll get you that sale. 

26:00 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yep, and one thing I will say clothes is about 200 something dollars a month, but if you think about it, if you use that CRM and you book one explainer video for $300, you made your money back and everything else after that is profit. 

26:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely, absolutely Good conversation, guys. I don't know if we'll ever like get the question stopping about the CRMs, but you know what guys Do, what comes naturally to you, what's comfortable for you. As far as Tom and I making recommendations, I mean, we have a combination of CRMs that work for us and we've named a few of them. But really do your research, guys, and know that it will take you some work to set it up. But I think if you've got a CRM that's running, I mean I'll tell you what that CRM saves my butt every month, and more than that, by being able to communicate easily with people that are subscribed to me and people that I want to reach out to. So it's absolutely worthy investment for bosses. So thanks again, tom, for your words of wisdom. 

26:59 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) You're amazing. Thank you, as always, for having me. 

27:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, bosses. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses, like Tom and myself, real bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. 

27:15 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.