VO BOSS

Learn how to transform money aspirations into concrete financial plans in our next episode of the Boss Money Talks series with Danielle Famble. The BOSSES guide you through setting precise financial goals, breaking down larger targets into manageable segments, and preparing for the variable and unpredictable income streams that are so common in the voiceover industry. The BOSSES dive deep into strategies for creating financial freedom through strategic growth. They discuss the powerful impact of investing in yourself and your business, whether that means hiring help, taking breaks for self-care, or seeking out coaching and training. Tune in to discover how financial stability can lead to better business decisions, higher quality work, and long-term success in the competitive world of voiceover.

00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, amazing voiceover talents. Do you ever wish boss marketing was as fun as it was being behind the mic? Well, check out my VO Boss Blast. It's designed to automate and make your marketing simpler. You'll benefit from your very own target marketed list, tailored to meet your goals and your brand the VO Boss Blast. Find out more at voboss.com. 

00:28 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, nne Ganguza. 

00:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Money Talks series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza, and I'm here again with the lovely Danielle Famble to talk money today. Hey Danielle, hey Anne, it's good to be back with you. Yes, I love talking money, me too. 

01:05 Money money, money. So, speaking of money, we were just having a conversation where we love to. Well, I love to shop online. I will readily admit that, and I think it's important that we think about do I have the money to spend on this? Do I have financial goals for my business? Do I have the money to spend on this? Do I have financial goals for my business? 

01:24 Because another thing that I will also do with my students is when they first start working with me, they have to fill out a goal sheet, and I think that a lot of times, we know what performance goals I want to get work. I want to work in this genre, I want to get an agent. We have all the performance goals and, oh, I want to have a business, or I want to have a thriving business, but I don't think many of us get very specific about financial goals. Again, it's one of those things where I think people think if they don't look at it it's kind of like don't look at my credit card statements that maybe they'll go away. But no, we've got to really keep our eyes open and look to the future, and I think it's a good time to talk about how to set financial goals for your business. 

02:04 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, no. That's really important because for me in the past I've always just said with a financial goal, I just want more. I want to make more money, I want to have more, and it's not specific at all, it's just more or mentality. What you're lacking in that specificity tells you what is enough and how you know when you've reached your goal, so that you can either make more goals or become more targeted on that goal. So more usually was my goal and I never felt like I hit it. 

02:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Or for me it would be like oh well, I want to make a six-figure income, and so I don't think that's specific enough. Right, right, like how do I get to that six-figure income from day one right and day 30 and day 60, like on a monthly basis or on a weekly basis? How am I achieving those goals? 

02:58 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, and I think what you could do then is say, okay, if you want to make a six-figure income, okay, what is six figures? Is it specifically $100,000? Is it $ Five hundred thousand? Five hundred thousand dollars? All of these things are absolutely possible, but what is the specific six figure For me? If I were saying you know I want a six figure income, I would want to say, all right, is it one hundred thousand dollars? If it's one hundred thousand dollars, then you can divide that by 12. Yeah, just round numbers and then figure out that you need to make that number per month and you'll know monthly if you're on target to hit that amount or not, also considering things like expenses and taxes and things like that. So it's a question of are you wanting to just bring in that amount of money? Are you trying to bring in that amount of money after expenses? Like, getting specific about these financial goals really helps. You know when you've hit your target or not. 

03:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, right. And the more specific I think you can get, I think, the more achievable it may seem to you. Because it's all well and good to say I want to make I don't know. $8,000 a month, right? So $8,000 a month times 12, right, that doesn't quite get you to 100, right. So $8,000 a month times 12, right, that doesn't quite get you to 100, right? Or $12,000 a month will get you $120. I'm pulling out my calculator because now that we started. 

04:14 - Danielle Famble (Host) As much as I love talking about money, math is not my. 

04:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No, we need calculators. 

04:19 - Danielle Famble (Host) Math is not my ministry, so sometimes I have to just pull out a calculator. 

04:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I got it, I got you. But let's just say I have that money goal on a monthly basis, right? What is it going to take for me to achieve that? And that is especially difficult, and I think this is why most voice actors it's so hard for them to set these financial goals, because our industry I mean we are entrepreneurs, I mean we have highs, we have lows. 

04:45 There's no expected income coming in, which makes this so much different than my corporate job where I made a salary per year and you divide that by the amount of times I get paid, I know exactly what I'm going to get on my paycheck, right? And that takes away that uncertainty, all that risk, right? Because it's a stable kind of an income that's coming in every month and so we could count on that if we're working a job and working in corporate. But now, all of a a sudden, we're entrepreneurs and so that monthly achievable goal, or weekly or whatever you want to set it to, becomes like what I mean there's no guarantee. So what do we do? What do we do? We have that goal, how do we get there? There's the question of the day. 

05:30 - Danielle Famble (Host) So you can take a look at what you're currently doing now. I think looking at where you are and then making your goal achievable within where you're currently at will help you, hopefully, get closer to that goal than if you are at making $1,000 a month and you're saying I want to make $10,000 a month next month or next year. There are things that you're going to need to do. So if you can look at where you are now and see where you are in relationship to that goal, that will help you understand the time frame that it will take, how long it will take you to hit that goal. 

06:03 What else do you need to do? Do you need to study more? Do you need to have different kinds of demos? Do you need to take a look at what genres are you auditioning for? Maybe you're not going to make that kind of money doing a certain kind of genre. Maybe that money comes from a different genre that maybe you don't work in as much. So do you have the demos and the training that you need to make that amount of money? Once you start getting specific, it actually starts to add more questions so that you can figure out how to get to that financial goal that you have. 

06:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I like that because it really brings in all the other elements into play. Right, because, all right, in order for me to make and I'm just giving it a number, in order for me to make $10,000 a month, right, that's four weeks, right? So how many auditions do I need to do? Right? How many times do I need to book? And you're right, absolutely Like, what kind of genres I mean, what kind of money are you making? Especially because we never know, like necessarily from job to job, what that money is. We can have a baseline, right, and we can say, well, I'd like to charge this for the job. It may make us rethink what we're charging people right? 

07:14 - Danielle Famble (Host) Absolutely. That's a huge part of it too are your rates. If your rates are completely out of alignment with what your goal is, then that tells you. Maybe you need to take a look at your rates. Maybe you need to take a look at the types of jobs that you are auditioning for what you are saying yes to, because when you say yes to something, that inherently means you're saying no to something else, because you only have a certain amount of time to do what needs to get done. 

07:38 That's actually something that I've had to take a look at in my own business is, if I say yes to certain things, is that actually getting me closer to my goal, or is it getting me closer to more, and more is not specific. So sometimes you're going to need to say no so that you are available for the jobs that will get you closer to your financial goals your financial income goals, if that's what your financial goals are. 

08:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, the power of no, it is a thing, it is an absolute, tangible thing, the power of no. 

08:09 And I think also you've got to be aware of the market, right, it's all well and good to say I want to make six figures, you know, and I'm going to charge this amount, so there's also the other side of the coin, where you're going to be, let's say, maybe pricing yourself out of the market. And so education I feel like this whole series, like we need to start off by saying educate, educate, educate, educate. It's so important because now, all of a sudden, there's market price, right, we're dealing with the dark side of synthetic voices coming on the horizon. And so what are consumers willing to pay? Right, and you know you do have to take that into account, right, and so sometimes you can be price undercut by another talent or somebody else on a roster who will do it cheaper, and it's unfortunate, but I mean that's the way the cookie crumbles, or there's got to be some sort of money analogy for that, danielle, that you might know, that's the way the dollar gets spent. 

09:02 There you go, yeah, I mean, there's all these variables, danielle, and it's so intimidating, which is why I think most people don't really set those financial goals. 

09:11 - Danielle Famble (Host) And also adding in negotiation. Being comfortable negotiating your rates and negotiating what a company or client is willing to pay is really important as well, and getting comfortable and competent in how to negotiate is actually a lever that you can pull as well. There are so many things that are in your control when it comes to bringing in the income for your business that just saying okay, I want to make six figures, that's all well and good. Now what can I do? What's in my control? What are the levers that I can pull? Maybe it's negotiating. Maybe it's making sure that I'm quoting industry standard rates, educating myself on what industry standard rates are, maybe going to a GVAA rate guide or looking at what is the industry charging. 

09:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Marketing more yeah. 

09:59 - Danielle Famble (Host) You can also say no and say hey, listen, this is below what I'm willing to accept for my time, because this is not going to get me closer to my goal. There's so many things that you can do not going to get me closer to my goal. There's so many things that you can do. Just saying this is the goal and I'm just going to continue doing what I'm doing really takes away the agency that you have in getting to this goal. 

10:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know, one thing that I will say that allows me to be bolder in moving forward in my business is having and I've said this in numerous other podcasts, but I think it bears repeating is having that financial cushion. That means having money in the bank that allows me to be bold with my saying no if I need to right, maybe delving out into a different genre or getting more coaching or whatever it is, making another investment in my business so that I can move forward Again. I wish it was all like oh, this is the absolute path I must go in order to achieve this. But there's so many variables that you say and I love it because it's so positive that we have in our control to do it, and I like to really think about it like a challenge. I mean, I'm a girl who loves a challenge, right, I mean so for me. I've always said that I love voice acting and I love coaching, but I love the business I love the business of making money right. 

11:13 I love trying to figure out how can I make more money and if I treat it as a challenge and I treat it like a game right, as long as I have that financial cushion right in the bank, I have some leeway. I have a little bit of play where I can actually go out on a limb and take a chance and take a risk, actually go out on a limb and take a chance and take a risk, and if that pays off for me, yes then that can be something that catapults me into the next tax bracket. 

11:39 - Danielle Famble (Host) Absolutely, it's so empowering to be able to walk away and say no or to go for a different genre or whatever your goal is or your challenge, as you're saying, would be. It's so empowering to be able to back that up in your mind of saying, if this doesn't work out, I'm still okay. For me, that goes for financial savings goals. So I want to make sure that I have a certain amount of money in the bank, in savings, so that I'm not destitute. Yep, you can pay the bills. 

12:05 Desperation is palpable and if you are operating from a place of, this has to work or else it may not work out as well for you. But the confidence in the back of your mind of saying, if not me, that's totally fine, I'm still okay, that's you taking the power and the agency of your future, of your financial future, your business's future. So, going from I need to make a certain amount of money to I need to have a certain amount of money so that I can feel safe and confident in being able to say no. Is it really important financial goal? That has taken me a long time to understand that it's as important, if not more important than just revenue goals. 

12:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, your strategy to get there doesn't have to always revolve around jobs that you do. It can revolve around, like for me everybody knows I've been on a health journey, right, I worked myself to the bone, to the point where I was unhealthy, right, and then that was also taking away from my product. Actually, do you know what I mean? I wasn't at my 100% best, and so for me I was like I can't stop, I can't stop, I can't stop, I want to continue. Like I had a nice financial cushion but the workaholic in me said, well, let's just keep putting money in there. But at one point it became a little bit detrimental to me, right, because it affected my health. And now I'm okay with saying you know what, I can take that hour, that maybe hour and a half, to do some self-care, because if I am healthier, I'm going to have a better product and I'm going to be able to serve my clients better, I'm going to run my business better. And so the goal goals there, you know, in strategizing are not just like okay, this is what I want to make and these are how many auditions I'm going to have to do to get there, or this is how much marketing I'm going to have to do. It also can encompass whatever it is that affects your product right, to make your product better. 

13:56 I think that's an avenue we need to look at, including coaching right, including new demos, which is why I feel that that part of the strategy in your financial goals. They're hand in hand Because it's all about the product really, right. I mean, we are a company. I always tell people like, especially when I'm teaching corporate narration, I'm like look, you can't just be an information deliverer when you talk about corporate narration, because the word corporate in and of itself says we need to sell something, right? There's no other reason why companies are formed. Can you think of any reason? 

14:28 that companies are formed outside of to make a profit and they have a product and a service to sell. There's no other reason. So that means that you exist to make a profit, right. 

14:39 - Intro (Announcement) You exist to make a profit. 

14:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Your product needs to make a profit. And if your product is not making a profit, then you need to look at improving that product. And how are you going to do that? Or how are you going to make sure that you have a good product and that you're maintaining it, but not just maintaining it, but evolving it and growing it and making it better so that it's competitive? 

14:59 - Danielle Famble (Host) I appreciate you saying that, because where you were when you realized that it was time to make a change is quite literally where I am right now. 

15:08 I've said to myself recently I would love to be that person who goes to the gym at four o'clock in the afternoon. Well, normally I'd be doing auditions or trying to make sure I have a session at that time, or it's during the day. I need to be in this booth making money. I must be here, because if I'm not here working towards these financial goals, then what am I doing? But I need to pour into the instrument that is, the product, and to be able to do that I need money. So I need to be able to strategize that I'm making money enough to be able to take that four o'clock hour or whatever hour and go and take a workout class or go to the gym or just go outside and get some vitamin D, because sometimes I don't do that. So that's where you can take your financial goals and make them applicable to your daily life, not just as the person that you are, but the product of your business, which is how your business makes money. It's cyclical. 

16:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I mean, if we had a physical product, it would be a different story. You know what I mean, like if I was like I'm selling pens, oh, I'm selling my Nganguza pens, right? So that's a different thing. I mean, you've got physical inventory here. Here we're talking about your voice, right, and so it encompasses that's what makes it so unique. 

16:25 It encompasses so many different things in order to put out a great product and those goals whether you think so or not, I mean those goals that you set, financial goals. There's so many ways to get there that don't include just how much money do I invest? It can be how much do I invest in my product to make it better so that I can ultimately charge more or ultimately get more income coming in? So I didn't want to miss out on saying how important that was in terms of strategizing and goal setting, because I didn't realize it. Do you know what I mean? I just kept thinking, oh my God, I just have to work, I have to be at the desk, I have to work, I have to work, and then I realized that ultimately, my product was suffering, and so you don't want that to happen. 

17:09 So, always being on the lookout of how can I be better? How can I and for me it's always been like the challenge and how can I grow? And growing takes. Growing is scary. You know what I mean. Oh yeah, growing your business is scary. I mean, okay, all of a sudden, now I might need an assistant. Oh, that means I've got to put more money out. That's scary when I don't feel like I have control over that. Income is not steady anymore. So all of a sudden it's like well, I don't know if I can afford right, which is what a lot of students can't afford. There's only so much they've allowed in order to develop their product. But in reality, taking it all in and understanding what's involved in putting out a great product, I mean, at least you don't have a storefront, that you're leasing a building. 

17:55 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah. And the question that you can ask yourself, instead of saying I can't afford, is how can I afford? 

18:01 - Intro (Announcement) to have an assistant, because then that starts to open up a lot more questions. 

18:07 - Danielle Famble (Host) How much does an assistant cost? How much time commitment would I need for this assistant? Maybe it's a part-time assistant, a certain number of hours a week, Okay. So it's going to be 20 hours a week at, let's say, $15 an hour, Okay. So now that I know it's this amount of money, how can I afford this additional amount of money? And then you reverse engineer the problem. 

18:31 Yeah, I love that so if it's, how can I take off at 4 o'clock in the afternoon to go to the gym? All right, that means that I need to make sure that I'm making a certain amount of money per week or per month, however I want to view it. Per week or per month, however I want to view it, and I'll know if I'm maybe negotiating a certain rate and I hit that target. Anything else for the week is gravy, because I know that I've made my target amount of money, I've hit my goal, I know the enough number and anything else on top of that to me is pure profit, which I love profit. 

19:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We love profit. 

19:04 - Danielle Famble (Host) I love profit, and so I think that's really how you can look at it. Instead of saying what you cannot do, ask yourself the creative in you how can you do it? 

19:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I was absolutely just going to say you know what I love about you, danielle, because you're always about what you can do right Versus I can't afford, I can't do this to grow. You're always like you're reversing it, like literally everything that we've talked about in this series is you with the positive manifestation right of how you can. Let's reverse, engineer, let's see what we, what here are our goals, here's what we can do to get there. And I absolutely love that about you and I believe that it's instrumental in your success. I think it can be instrumental in every boss's success that instead of what you can't do, what can you do and just manifest from abundance that whole mentality. 

19:53 - Danielle Famble (Host) Thank you. I believe in that. We are creatives. That's what we are doing. We are actors. We are creating worlds and stories out of someone else's words, sometimes our own and we're creating something that didn't really exist before we breathe the life, the voice into it. That's what we do. 

20:13 So if that is what we do in our business, how can that be that we don't do it in creating the abundance in our business? It's really important to me. When I get negative and I do often when I do get negative I want to try to get out of that by flipping to where is my power, what can I do about it? And if I need help, then that means that I need to figure out the resource to help me. If I don't know, then I need to get a coach or get someone else's perspective. But there's something that you can do, and it's probably in business. It's going to cost you some money, which is why talking about money and finances is so important, because it is the vehicle for how we get what we want in life and in business. 

20:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, it is so true, and I think there's a lot of creators that may not want to believe that, like, I'm going to do it for the love of it and that's okay. I mean, I think every day, we should be doing something we love if we absolutely can, and if it can help us pay the bills, I mean, my gosh, how fortunate and how wonderful is that. And I always say how lucky am I? Am I lucky? I manifested it. Just saying, I mean, I manifested something that I love, right, and turned it into something that I can make a profit with. 

21:21 And so how much luck was involved in that? Well, maybe a little bit, but there was an awful lot of hard work and there was awful lot of manifestation and saying what can I do? Right? And I believe, bosses out there, that you need to again educate yourself. Right, take that real world, look at your finances, set some goals that are realistic goals and do it working backwards, right, because it's not enough to just say I want to make a six-figure income, right. Well, okay, give me a number and then work backwards from that, right. And what are you going to have to do to get to that number? And maybe, guys, maybe it's not about how many auditions you do. Maybe you need to go outside. I mean, I hate to say that, but I don't hate to say that there's nothing wrong with going outside and getting a supplemental income while you're building your business Absolutely nothing. 

22:08 - Danielle Famble (Host) Oh, for sure it can be actually one of the best things that you do for your business, because it's less work that you'll have to do in bringing in income in your business, because you've already got additional income kind of helping you out and that keeps you afloat and that buoys you. 

22:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that's your cushion, that's your cushion, that's your cushion so that it makes you confident to move forward. So go deliver Instacart. I mean. I mean, why not? I mean I've thought of all these other things that I would love to do. I mean there's all these things that I find joy in that I'm like you know what, if I ever had to change my career, I could do that. I'm always thinking. I'm always thinking, and I'm not saying I'm getting out of voice, acting at all or what I'm doing, but I'm always evolving and always thinking about what is it that's going to help me to be joyful and bring money in. It's like joy and money, and I'm not afraid or ashamed to say joy and money in the same sentence. 

23:03 - Danielle Famble (Host) Oh no, making money can be quite joyful. I've also made money in a way that has not been completely joyful to me, but spending that money was a little bit more joyful. And that's how I got my joy Spending money is joyful to me. 

23:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, absolutely, and making it, of course, because you got to have it to spend it Absolutely. Oh man, what a great conversation. So I believe financial goals take it work backwards right. Figure out what your goal is, what you need to do to get there, and always as Danielle has so eloquently and wonderfully demonstrated in all of these podcast series episodes that we've talked about is be positive. What can you do right and not that you can't do it because of right, no excuses, what you can do and bosses. There's no shame in strategizing and coming up with ideas outside of the box to get there and give yourself that financial cushion to push even further to those financial goals. So I love talking to you, danielle. I love it. Thank you, anne. 

23:58 - Danielle Famble (Host) This is fun, you get me all charged up. 

24:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Not charged up. I might go charge something now. Oh, I'm going to go manifest my next level. 

24:07 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, I'm going to go set some more goals, some financial goals. 

24:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Manifest the next level of bossness setting some financial goals. All right, guys. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network and be a boss. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Guys, have an amazing week and manifest those awesome financial goals. You guys can do it. We believe in you. All right, have a good one. Bye, guys, thanks everybody, bye. 

24:33 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO boss with your host and gang Guza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VO bosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

Join us as we navigate the captivating world of character creation in voice acting with MCVO Agent Lau Lapides. The BOSSES unpack the essence of building characters across various domains—whether it's animation, commercial, corporate, or e-learning—emphasizing the crucial role of authenticity and depth. Discover how understanding a character's choices, morality, and actions can elevate your performance from mere impersonation to truly embodying the character. By thoughtfully considering the script's intent and adding your unique touch, the BOSSES aim to help you craft characters that deeply resonate with your audience. Tune in and embrace the complexities and creative challenges of character development with us, ensuring your performances are both genuine and relatable. 00:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Do you ever wish boss marketing was as fun as it was being behind the mic? Well, check out my VioBoss Blast. It's designed to automate and make your marketing simpler. You'll benefit from your very own target marketed list, tailored to meet your goals and your brand the ViBoss Blast. Find out more at VioBosscom. 

00:24 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

00:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here for the Boss Superpower Series with my lovely guest co-host, Lala Pides. 

00:55 - Lau Lapides (Host) Hey Anne, so happy to be back, as always. 

00:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Ah Lal, I love you. You're such a character. 

01:03 - Lau Lapides (Host) I love you right back, super lady. 

01:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know, speaking of characters, I have a lot of friends who do character acting a lot of really wonderful friends and they absolutely love it, they're very passionate about it. As a matter of fact, a lot of students that I talk to that want to get into voiceover. They want to be a character, they want to be in animation and I thought it's appropriate because we're characters, no matter what we do in voice acting today, and not everybody thinks of it in those terms. So I thought maybe we could concentrate on what characters we are today. 

01:36 - Lau Lapides (Host) That's an interesting topic because I think that a lot of creatives think of character in a very artificial kind of sense, as almost a caricature a caricature instead of a character, a well-drawn character with depth, and dimension. So like, yeah, what is that character? How do we define that character? It's a great question. 

01:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's a good question. So, Lo, how do you define character and how you need to be a character? Or do you need to be a character, or do you need to be a character in voice acting? 

02:07 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, I think the first thing I think about is from that morality standpoint of thinking about character. When we say, oh, that person has a lot of character, they build their character, they have a very strong character, they have a moral character. I always think of it as someone who is strong, someone who has a backbone, who has courage, and someone who is well-drawn, well-built, someone who has those three dimensions, who has depth, who's interesting, who has integrity. I mean thinking about all the layers that go into what character actually is. I don't necessarily think of like cartoon or animation or something that's unreal. I think of something that is actually real and dimensional. And then I go from there, I start to dive in and say, ooh, what does this building of this character from an actor's standpoint? What does that mean? How do we build a character from the ground up, taking our breakdown, taking our description and really detailing it, really adding our own unique dimension to that that becomes our character? 

03:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And is it necessary that you are a character in voice, acting for every script? Are you a character? 

03:19 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, I think that only is about how you define character. If I define character as every single solitary role that I could possibly play is a character, possesses character and has character elements to it, then I would imagine yes, you're a character, whether you are a narrator an audiobook reader or whether you're a medical tech person, you're a character. 

03:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, and I think that in order to really resonate, I think, with the script and resonate with the listener, you need to truly embody that character, and I think it's important that we're not trying to necessarily impersonate a character, right, it's more or less being that character in the moment, right, and I know that a lot of times when you are speaking in the moment, all the things that used to matter to you like oh, how do I sound right? Kind of flies out the window. And that's why I think it's important that we actually get ourselves in the moment, in the character, because we don't necessarily need to consider what we sound like. We need to consider who we are and what we're reacting to, what scene we're in and how we're talking to our listener. 

04:34 - Lau Lapides (Host) And who we are. From an actor standpoint, whatever kind of character you're creating is determined not only by the writer's point of view, but also by the moment-to-moment experience, directorially, from your perspective, your point of view, what's your POV? So, therefore, we need to be fully present, fully engaged in the moment, to really figure out the character, build the character from the ground up and really start to ask questions about what is your character, who are they, what would they do, what would their decisions and actions be? And I like to even go and say are they like me, or is this within me to do, or do I have to create this as part of my character? I don't want to mimic, as you said, I don't want to impersonate, I don't want to be a parrot in that way, but what do I need to do to get the qualities of that character and then put it in so I can organically bring that out as part of me? 

05:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) and who I am. I like how you actually brought in the fold that there's a point of view from the script writer, right, let's say, if we are voicing a commercial or, in my case, like corporate or e-learning right. In my case, like corporate or e-learning right, there's a point of view that you need to consider from the copywriter or whoever it is that is providing you with the work right, because they want you to consider their viewpoint. But then you also have to bring in your own point of view, and I think that sometimes people get confused as to the point of view. Is there just one or is there one that you're melding in with your own point of view? Is there just one or is there one that you're melding in with your own point of view in order to make your take on that a unique take that will engage the listener? 

06:13 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, you know, it's interesting, A lot of VOs who also do on-camera work hear the language of the technical crew talking about POVs when it comes to the camera shot. So I like to think of it in those terms that you know, if you're shooting one scene, it could take four hours, eight hours, 12 hours to shoot that one scene, because the crew is concerned about what are all the POVs in the shot list that we need to get. So when we think about voiceover and we think about, well, we're not on camera, but what are we doing with our voice? What are all the points of view that our voice can stylistically shift to, whether it's written in the script or not, really could take time to develop that. 

06:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know. I love that. You said that because I think you're right and it's funny, because I'll talk to my students and I'll say it's a point of view that evolves, because if you have the same point of view throughout an entire script, it becomes almost like white noise and it becomes very predictable and consistent and it doesn't necessarily tell the story, because I'm constantly in this particular point of view and I'm going to talk to you like this for the next minute or two minutes or maybe even ten minutes, and I'm going to continue with this particular point of view and it starts to become really repetitive and it starts to become where repetitive and it starts to become where whew, that's exhausting to listen to, right? So I think a point of view is constantly evolving and changing along with the storyline and that's something that the actor makes, those choices right, those choices on how to evolve in a unique way that takes the listener on a journey. 

07:43 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yes, and it is the very thing that you and I, as coaches, are always pushing home. Pushing home. It is precise, it is detailed, it is specific. We should never be making choices that are like whitewashed, or universal, or generic, or not making choices at all, which is what? 

08:01 a lot of talent do because they want to just let happen what happens? Sure, but the truth is we're on a mission for choice making and we know we're going to attain the objective if we make the choice to go get that. If we don't make any choice, chances are we're not going to achieve that objective. 

08:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, then it just becomes like a neutral, flat, kind of like where is that point of view and what makes that different than somebody reading words to me really? 

08:26 - Lau Lapides (Host) So therefore we lack character? Yeah, we lack character and characterization, and characteristics, how about characteristics? So therefore, we lack character? Yeah, we lack character and characterization, right right, and characteristics, sure, how about characteristics? I like that. 

08:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And moment to moment I love the moment to moment in between the periods throughout the scene Like the scene can evolve, and I think what's so cool about that is that it offers the actor such an amazing spectrum of creativity to just draw upon in order to make that read come to life. 

08:53 And it's different for all of us. I think there's, I think, the point of view, that's the intention of the script, that makes sense for the words that are on the page, and then there's what you bring to it moment to moment. It evolves over time, it may change and shift and you may not know what those scenes are specifically Like. We don't always get the storyboard, we don't get the video, we don't know what the music or any of those things are going to be, but we have our own creativity, we have our own imagination, we have an understanding of who we're voicing this for and the context of the words that are on the page, and then it's up to us to interpret them in a logical way that would make sense to accomplish what the client wants from us. 

09:35 - Lau Lapides (Host) Exactly, that's exactly it. 

09:37 And I think that if you don't do that work, if you don't do the homework or the pre-work, as we call it, the pre-work if you don't do that prep, pre-work, you're really messing out a lot, because you want to be free, that when you're doing the gig whatever that gig is you want to be free to really play and enjoy the character and say, okay, I've created a framework, I have a little blueprint for myself, I can see the visual in my head, I have a sense of where they're going and make some decisions, so that when I veer off and I go outside of the box, I know that I'm breaking my own rules, which is what I want to be doing as a creative. 

10:13 I want to set my rules, I want to see if that works, and then I want to break the rules and that might work even better. And so those characters are like, no matter how rule-oriented they are, they're always breaking rules in certain ways as well. And really finding out like, where's the rebel in the character? Maybe she's been saying lines just like this, she's been delivering just like this, and then maybe on this one she changes it. She changes it for a reason to show that she is awake and aware of what the problem is in the community, right. So I'm really developing a character and characterizations that then become relatable and about empathy, that an audience can listen to and go ooh, I do that. Ooh, that's just like me. 

10:58 Wow, and all of a sudden they're not thinking of character. They wouldn't even use that word. 

11:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They'd say that's a person that's like my sister right, and you know what A lot of times I'll tell people to do. Maybe for the second take right is maybe change your character a little bit, One that still makes sense, but change your character or change the scenario. 

11:16 - Intro (Announcement) Change the scene. 

11:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Like maybe you're in a hurry or maybe you're in a different place, Maybe you're outside, or maybe you're inside in an office and maybe the person you're talking to right has a different reaction or has got different issues with what you're saying. Or maybe they've got a backstory that you're responding to and that backstory changes, and so you're responding in a slightly different way, but one that still makes sense, right for the words on the page. Right. 

11:44 And that can give you a really great second take, more so than oh, that second take just has to sound different, right? So if you can push I'm going to say if you can push your creative mind to always take in the scene creating that character and moving that character through the scene, and then do a take two right, create a different scene, create a slightly different character, one that still makes sense and Law, I'm going to ask you, I'm going to have you probably reinforce what I always tell people Does it matter that we don't have the storyboard? Does it matter that our story is correct from the final version of the video or whatever it is that we're creating, or the commercial? I think? 

12:25 - Lau Lapides (Host) that in every single thing we do, Anne, I think that in every single thing we do, Anne, there's blind, there's stuff behind walls that we don't see and we're not privy to and we don't know, and that's okay. That's where us, as creatives, come in and say I can create different interpretations, I can create different scenarios. And then, as they give me the feedback or direct me, or maybe they just say hey, you gave me three, they're fabulous, we like it, we're done. 

12:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know what I mean. And let me ask you another question, which I know a lot of times people will complain about this. They'll say well, why do they write it this way, right? And then we don't know what it means. I have no idea what it means, but yet they want us to sound like we're talking to our friend, or they want us to what they really want. Maybe they're not telling you for a very good reason, right? Maybe they're not giving you that storyboard for a good reason because they want to hear your creative, artistic interpretation or impression of it. 

13:28 - Lau Lapides (Host) Right. Typically, I would say don't waste too much time or energy wondering why it was created this way, why it was crafted this way it was. Now let's see what we can do with it. And you know a lot of directors, a lot of young and up-and-coming directors I've noticed stylistically are very different than years gone by. They're doing a lot more impromptu, a lot more improv, a lot more stuff like that. So sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes you're going to have the license and the leisure that you're working with someone who says is that natural for you or do you need to change something there? Right? And that actually happens a lot more than we think, where, in essence, we're editing the script on the spot when we're doing a job because we're coming up with something that they didn't realize works better. 

14:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, absolutely Absolutely, and a lot of times it can spur them into new creative avenues as well, to say, well, I didn't think about it like that, but you know what I really like your take on that, and so how wonderful is that? It's wonderful. I often think that we're given this creative challenge and we should embrace that challenge and not be so determined to get in 100 auditions a day in our studio where we're just going and I know what it should sound like. I really feel as though we don't take enough time and sometimes even I have to remind myself right in a busy day. We're always so busy that I need to really sit back and let's think and let's kind of enjoy the process, let's enjoy the creativity, let's enjoy and embrace the challenge of creating a character and really figuring out and it's not easy Law, is it easy? 

15:02 - Lau Lapides (Host) No, I mean human relations. Right, human behavior is never easy because you're always dealing with true, authentic interface with another person, like we are doing a reasonable facsimile of real life. That's what we're doing. It's not real life, we're in a booth under a light, but in essence we're doing that reasonable facsimile of it and we have to understand that your character is capable of anything. When someone says, oh, I don't know why she's saying that she would never say that, I say, oh, I don't know why she's saying that she would never say that. 

15:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I said, yes, she would. Yes, she could If the situation were appropriate. Yeah, of course she could. If you want me to be conversational, you know, and I feel like that word is now got it's a dirty word now, but I just want to say Well, it's exhausted. 

15:45 - Lau Lapides (Host) It is exhausted, they use it a lot and conversational. 

15:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) there's so many different ways to be conversational. I mean law. I have conversations every day, like every single day of my life. We have conversations. 

15:54 So, it's a fact of life that we have conversations. Now, when somebody gives me the direction that they want it to be, conversational, there's so many different, like 360 degrees of conversational. It could be casual, it could be authoritative, the conversation could be authoritative, the conversation could be shifting, and again along with the character, right. And so I think that conversational is just meant to be. Well, let's not make it sound announcery, right? So what's the other word for it? But honestly, I engage every day with other people and with things and with circumstances and so-. 

16:25 - Lau Lapides (Host) That's your practice. That's your practice is to really do it right, and I can tell you, one of the biggest mistakes that actors make, whatever they're doing, is to say how do I sound, do I? 

16:35 sound real, Do I sound? And I said, listen, if I came into this coaching session, I said with Joe. I said, coming in, I want to sound real with Joe, I want to coach Joe and I want to sound real. Wouldn't you think I'm crazy? And he'd say I think that was crazy. I'd say, well, that's what you're doing right now. You're doing that right now with a real person or a real entity, a character that's not coming in and saying I want to feel real, I want to look real, I want to sound real. They're saying no, I want to get a point across to you. I want to help you with something, I want to do something with you. 

17:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I'm going to say that, well, I wouldn't say that right in a normal situation. But the deal is, is that that's not you as an actor? It is your job to make the words on the page sound logical and sound like they would be something you would say. That is your job as an actor. Right? There's no excuse. What do you mean? You would never say that it doesn't matter. We're not asking if you would ever say that In this particular instance, you need to act as though that is a perfectly natural thing to say and a perfectly understandable, logical, emphatically lovely thing for you to say. 

17:39 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, you're an actor, act right. But I mean, how do you know that? Do you know that? For a fact Like, why limit your potential? Why put caps on your creativity? Why not say, okay, the craziest thing I could possibly do, I'll think about doing it Now. Maybe if the circumstance and context were right for that, you would do it. Oh gosh, yeah, but chances are, you may never know right. 

18:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And what I always am arguing with people about is saying well, yes, you absolutely could say that, as long as you understand what the story is leading up to it. Right Again, you picked that moment before. What is that conversation you're having? What's happening before? Tell me about who you're talking to and what is their pain point. What is their problem? What are they reacting to? Or why are you talking to them with the first words of the sentence? Why are you saying that to them? There has to be a reason. They said something to you, there was an action that happened and you are reacting to it. 

18:35 It doesn't mean that your first words out of your mouth may be the exact first words in that, but you can lead into it and you can say well, actually, yes, here's your issue, and I want to tell you about first word coming now, right? So what happens is the first word coming now doesn't just pop out of the air, like I don't think law when we get together, I don't just go welcome to module one or, once upon a time, law. No, we've evolved into a conversation. There's been history. You know I have empathy to. Right now, you're in a hurry, right? So I want to make sure I'm not wasting your time, and so there's a backstory that you have to develop. 

19:13 You have to develop it. And I don't care what script, any script, any script. Even if you're reading about a pharmaceutical medicine and the effects that it has, do you know what I mean? Like, I want you to be like telling the person that's reading the back of the label, that thinks that they might have 10 of those symptoms and making them feel better about it, right? So there's a story there. Make that story make sense, okay. 

19:36 - Lau Lapides (Host) So the listener says, great, all well and good, but what if I haven't experienced any of this, I haven't gone through it, I don't have the context for it. I say, well, if you can surmise a bottom line for your character, what is happening? Say, the character is jumping out of a plane right now, that's what your characters do, but I've never jumped out of a plane. I don't know what that is. Yes, but you've taken extreme risks and you know what fear is and you know what that moment is. Even just building a business is very risky and fear-based. Call upon that moment in you. 

20:06 That's real. It's a substitution method that we have to use, because there's a lot of things in scripts we haven't experienced or industries we're not in. But we have to connect it with very real reservoir of emotion so that the character doesn't become one-dimensional or plastic. It is real. You're fooling us, you're tricking us, what they call in ancient Greek theater you're a hypocrite with a why meaning. You're able to mimic a feeling, an emotion that is very, very real for you because it's coming from you, even though you didn't have the actual experience. And that's what building your character is really all about is really taking from your life, your real history, your real experiences, and matching it up with the characters in her life, the characters' experience, even though they may be different. 

20:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I agree and I'll tell you what. And again I stress that, no matter what you're looking at, even if it's like a telephony script like thank you for calling Rite Aid, right, yeah, why are you saying that, right? Obviously somebody's called you on the phone and they literally need to check on their prescription. They're probably frustrated because maybe the text came through and it's not ready yet, and so they're calling Rite Aid and they're frustrated. 

21:19 Right Now I'm building empathy, right. I'm building empathy for the person who's going to be on the other end of the line from my message that says thank you for calling Rite Aid, right. So I understand that they are busy. I understand that they're frustrated, so I'm going to approach that with a character that's going to make them feel at ease or feel better, and so I've developed this story, I've developed my character and maybe I'll be bright, but I'm not going to be overly bright so that they get really annoyed at that. And it's funny, because I do telephony, I have no ego. Look, I get paid to do it. I do telephony, I do corporate, I do explainers, I do e-learning, I do commercial. 

21:58 I mean I do a lot more of the non-broadcast Of course, but the funny thing is is that for every single script I am talking to someone, I am a character. I have a couple of different characters that I have worked on for my telephony scripts and, depending on the on-hold messages which, by the way, lollapiedes, on-hold messages are nothing more than 15 to 20 second commercials. Did you know? 

22:22 - Intro (Announcement) Right and I actually have. 

22:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) the majority of my customers ask me to be very relatable and not like that. Hey, did you know 99.9% of people do this and for $9.95, we have today's special deal. No, they want me to be real and so I have to create that character that is engaging with someone who's super frustrated, that doesn't want to be on hold, that is going customer service customer service and you know what. 

22:53 - Lau Lapides (Host) If anyone has hosted a party or hosted a dinner in their home or in their apartment, you know what it's like to host. You know what it's like to welcome people into your space and make them comfortable, and that's what they're asking you for in that situation. 

23:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) How do you say thank you for calling and mean it right? Everybody in the world wants to go. Thank you for calling right, hello, no, I want to hear it as if you really are thankful, that you're really thankful that they called Right and so you've got to really dig deep for that. I'm just saying dig deep for that telephony because you are a character, no matter what. 

23:31 - Lau Lapides (Host) We could talk about this forever. Character is in everything, it's everywhere, and everything it's all of life. 

23:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah Right, it's a wonderful conversation. I think we should have part two of the series. 

23:41 - Lau Lapides (Host) I was just thinking that Part two, part two for sure. 

23:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So yeah, bosses, be a character. You are characters. Be a character for everything that you do in voiceover, and you can be a character and find out more about IPDTL, who is our sponsor, going to give them a great big old shout out. Find out more about IPDTL at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we will see you, bosses, next week. Bye, see you next time. 

24:06 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOBosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

24:37 - Lau Lapides (Host) Absolutely. You know what I mean. 

24:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Otherwise. 

24:38 - Lau Lapides (Host) I wouldn't. I wouldn't do it so quickly. Hang on one second. Do you hear that. What is that? I don't know. Okay, maybe it was something outside. Jerry, okay, I'm podcasting, I'll be. Was something outside Jerry? 

25:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Okay, I'm podcasting. I'll be out in a few minutes. Okay, is Jerry out there? Yes, I think that's my husband being loud. Well, jeremy's out here. 

25:10 - Lau Lapides (Host) So it was one of our husbands. Oh, was it one of our husbands For. 

25:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) God's sake. 

25:14 - Lau Lapides (Host) Jerry's over there and Jeremy's over here. 

25:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Tell Jeremy to be quiet. 

25:20 - Lau Lapides (Host) Annie says be, he's over here, tell Jeremy to be quiet. And he says be quiet, shut the fuck up. What are you doing, jesus Christ? Oh my God, that's so funny. I can't even close these doors. 

25:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh my God, but that's so funny because normally I don't hear anything, but I couldn't tell if it was Jeremy, if it was outside of yours or mine. But my, my husband just opened the door and I was like, what the heck Like so well, we did, we did the show. You want to do an outro? I mean, we did this is going to be well, just FYI, uh, this is going to be good for you, james. This'll be like an outtake. So, by the way, bosses, when you're, when you've got people running, this is why studios still have signs that say shh, recording, because even though we have great studios and I've, I've got, you know, acoustic panels and everything, if somebody's right outside this door and they're screaming or they're being loud, we're gonna be able to hear it. Yep, so, anyways, back to our back to our, uh, our discussion. Okay, so pick up. 

Discover indispensable strategies for maintaining an engaging online presence, even when social media fatigue sets in. From MySpace and Facebook's early days to today's multifaceted platforms, Anne and Tom explore how social media has transformed into a cornerstone for business promotion. Learn to create content that captivates both human audiences and social media algorithms, and understand how mastering these algorithms can elevate your marketing game. Gain insights on how social media plays a crucial role in purchasing decisions and the etiquette voice actors must follow. The BOSSes share essential tips on how potential clients vet companies and individuals through their social media presence. Experience the power of video content and the importance of authenticity in connecting with your audience. Learn why the algorithm favors video and how being genuine can build trust and likability among your followers. Anne. andTom address the continuous challenges in voice acting, emphasizing the need for consistency, strategic planning, and adapting to industry trends.

00:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, how's it going? Bosses Anne Genguza here. Elevate your voiceover game with our VIPeeps membership. With VIP membership, you can access our extensive library of over 350 hours of pre-recorded workshops. Whether you're interested in commercials, promos, character animation, audiobooks, video games, corporate narration, audio description or dubbing, our workshops cover it all. Plus, as a VIPeeps member, you'll enjoy a 15% discount on current workshops and complimentary free monthly workshops to further develop your skills. Join VIPeeps today at vopeepscom and take your voiceover career to new heights. 

00:44 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

01:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Boss Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm delighted to bring back Real Boss Tom Dheere to the show. 

01:15 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Hello, hey, , hello, hello, hello. 

01:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) How are you? 

01:19 - Tom Dheere (Guest) I'm good, how are? 

01:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) you, I'm good, tom. I have to apologize for being late because I was creating content for my social media. And it's still a thing you would think, after all these years, tom, both you and I have been active on social media, it would get easier, like maybe quicker, but it just doesn't. I mean, it is time consuming. I think we should talk about it, because real bosses need to get out there on social media and present themselves as real bosses. 

01:47 - Tom Dheere (Guest) This is also one of the questions that's most asked of me, as the video strategist is talking about how to come up with an effective social media presence. So, yeah, I think this is one that a lot of people are going to want to tune in for. 

01:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure, social media has just well, it's just blown up, obviously I mean, but back in the day, back in the day when I first got into voiceover, there wasn't much social media out there. Facebook was just now. I'm dating myself, right, facebook was just evolving. 

02:14 I think I've been part of Facebook since its evolution which was in gosh the early 2000s right, and so Facebook was the first social media and then other ones popped up after that and they've just exploded and then I think they kind of went beyond where people are now like, possibly social media tired. Oh God, yes, I have social media fatigue, social media fatigue, but yet there's still very much a necessity for running our businesses and advertising our businesses. 

02:47 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yes, I think I joined Facebook in 2007. And before that I had a MySpace account which I was active on. If you remember MySpace. 

02:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I do. 

02:56 - Tom Dheere (Guest) And there was a little bit of voiceover stuff going on on MySpace. And then Facebook came and the interface was just, you know, superior, so everybody migrated. Myspace still exists, but it doesn't even look remotely what it used to look like or function Now. It's only for musicians or something like that. 

03:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Facebook was great in the beginning. Remember. 

03:11 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yeah, back in. It was just like what are you doing? You know, you just post what you're doing. This is what I had for lunch. 

03:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yep exactly. Nobody still cares what I had for lunch. 

03:23 - Tom Dheere (Guest) I don't care what I had for lunch. 

03:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I do, because now I'm into health and so sometimes people want to know what I mean. There you go. 

03:31 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Right, okay, I think that's the first thing to talk about is like why should you post anything on social media as a voice actor? Right, and it's evolved. When I post on social media and also here's, the thing with you and I, anne, is that we're both full-time voice actors who are always marketing, looking for clients, voiceover clients, but we're also coaches, thought leaders, presenters, guests on podcasts, you know, and doing things like this. So we are also on social media looking for students as well Students, listeners, followers. 

04:09 Students, listeners, fans. You know connections of fellow voice actors, of aspiring voice actors, voice actors in all parts of their journey because we can help them with all of our products and services. So you and I have like a dual agenda when we are on social media. 

04:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We have a broad audience. We have a broad audience that we want to reach. 

04:24 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Right. So if you're one of the VO bosses who's watching, who is most likely not a coach, not a demo producer, not a thought leader, not a podcast host, you're just like what do I do? 

04:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, if you're a boss, you're always a thought leader. 

04:35 - Tom Dheere (Guest) That's what I like to think, Ooh, I gleefully stand corrected. Yes, I like to think that. 

04:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I mean that's fantastic Because to be a thought leader, let's create content around that. 

04:45 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yes, okay, so that's what I wanted to get to is like why are you on social media, who are you talking to and what do you have to say? So, in its broadest terms, I've learned that to be effective on social media as a voice actor is to feed the humans and the robots. 

05:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I like that. Feed the humans and the robots Absolutely yeah, just similar strategy for anything digital these days, right. 

05:12 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Right, it's always been true, but now, just as my understanding of marketing in general and social media marketing in particular, and all the platforms, I tell all of my students your job is to feed the algorithms. 

05:23 Feed the algorithms of search engine optimization Google, bing, yahoo to increase your page ranking. Feed the algorithms of online casting sites like Voicescom, voice123, badalgo, so on and so forth, but also feed the algorithms of social media. Figure out what those robots like to eat and feed it to them, and also understand that different social media platform algorithms, because this is what we're really talking about. Different algorithms reward you for different behavior. Yes, absolutely. Instagram is primarily photos. 

05:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, and video now, and video now. 

05:57 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Well, that's the next thing is that, like Facebook used to be for typing, twitter used to be just for words. Back then, it was 140 characters. 

06:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh my gosh, remember that when we were restricted. 

06:08 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yeah you for typing. Twitter used to be just for words. Back then it was 140 characters. Oh my gosh, remember that when we were restricted. Yeah, you're restricted to 140. Then it went to 280 and it may be unlimited. Instagram is just for pictures, youtube is just for videos, but now all of them are competing with each other so much that all the platforms are super watered down because they're trying to take users away from other social media platforms. So, on all the social media platforms, you can write stuff down, except for YouTube, but you can post photos, you can post videos, you know, and you're encouraged to do all of those things. So that's why it can get really confusing. But when the coders first made all of those platforms, they had one thrust in mind. 

06:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You're right, they had specific. Yeah, all of those platforms, they had one thrust in mind. You're right, they had specific. Yeah, twitter was the short post. Yeah, absolutely, youtube was always the video, instagram was the photo, and they all had, like, their purpose. 

06:52 But, you're right, now that they're competing with one another, they're starting to kind of have all these different capabilities, and now the amount of content out there is insane. And so, as bosses, you need to be able to stand out right and kind of cut through the chaos, and I think there's two things to be really aware of. Number one is your purpose, right, your purpose on social media, and especially if you want to get work right on social media versus use it as a social platform, remember that there was a personal and a business page for Facebook, and you could do the same thing for a personal and a business page for Facebook, and you could do the same thing for, like, instagram and all of the other platforms. You can have a business page and a personal page. But I think, with the whole authenticity, be real, real bosses, with that kind of evolving over the progression of social media, now you want to make sure that you are authentic and being who you are and not being selly because now people are like, no, don't sell to me Right right. 

07:50 - Tom Dheere (Guest) A video that we did not too long ago was about branding, and I think I talked about in that video that voice actors can be grouped into two categories public voice actors and private voice actors. The public voice actors are the audio book narrators, the video game narrators, the cartoon narrators, because those are the ones that when someone listens to your audio book, plays your video game, watches your cartoon, you know who the voice actor is in that. 

08:15 Everybody else is a private voice actor and people want to search you and everybody else is private, voice actor, e-learning explainer, corporate. When you narrate that content, the only people that are going corporate when you narrate that content, the only people that are going to know who is voicing that content is the producers of the content. The consumer of the content, the employee or the student, have no idea that Anne or Tom or anybody else narrated that content. So why do I bring this up? Think about that as it applies to social media. If you are an audiobook narrator, if you're a video game narrator, if you're a cartoon narrator, you've got a lot more tools in your tool belt to effectively use social media, because you're not just trying to connect with voice seekers, like all voice actors are in all genres You're also, if you're an audiobook narrator, you're trying to connect with authors. 

09:01 You're trying to connect with rights holders. You're trying to connect with listeners. If you're trying to connect with authors, you're trying to connect with rights holders. You're trying to connect with listeners. If you're a video game narrator on social media, you're trying to connect with the people who play the video games and can become a fan of the characters that you portray, same with the cartoon voice actors. 

09:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And with that it's dual purpose. Right, because you, as the voice actor, are not only voicing, but you're also marketing for the company. Right, marketing for the. 

09:28 - Tom Dheere (Guest) And there's a little more responsibility with that, because when you are marketing on social media and saying, hey, I was the voice of this character in Halo or Fallout or Arkham Asylum or in this Cartoon Network show, you are representing that company. So you need to be very, very careful how you comport yourself, because you don't want to do anything to damage the reputation of the product, service company, stockholder, shareholder or whatever. 

09:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, that's actually really good advice, no matter what you do, because, again, you think about even if you're voicing e-learning or corporate, but yet you might be on social media bashing the script or something and saying how poorly written it was or how you're annoyed at your client, and so it's always a good idea to just serve it up with a little bit of professionalism, because you don't know how many eyeballs are on Right. 

10:18 A lot of times it's really hard to tell who's watching, who's looking, and a lot of times people aren't commenting either. There's so many things that I scroll through on a day to day basis on social media that I read and I just don't comment on. I don't even comment, I don't like it, I don't react. But yet I've formulated opinions about certain people depending on the post, and if I thought, oh, that is a little bit harsh or oh, I'm not so sure, I'd want to work with that person, and so I've made my judgments based on the post. And gosh, this has just been preaching to the choir, but we've been saying that for years. Is you have to be aware of what you post? I mean, it has an effect. 

10:58 - Tom Dheere (Guest) I'm sure that you have a list in your head of fellow voice actors who you've observed on social media that you're like oh, I love what they have to say. They're so thoughtful and so smart and so funny and so insightful. I would just love to come up with an excuse to work with that person based on their social media presence. And then the other side of the coin. 

11:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) In reality, I remember those a whole lot more sometimes. 

11:15 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Do you know what I mean Because? 

11:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) the ones who are not presenting well on social media are the ones that are like, oh, watch out, watch out for that one. 

11:23 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yeah, and that's the thing is like we all have a little list in our head of the people voice actors that we see on social media and, based on how they're comporting themselves, it's like I will never work with that person, either as a coach or as a fellow voice actor maybe as a coach to maybe try to help them see the error of their ways with how they are presenting themselves on social media. 

11:42 But it's just like it's very easy to behave yourself out of the voiceover industry based on your social media content. You and I have seen it happen multiple times where people implode on social media, and it could be for any of a number of reasons, and that's just a peer-to-peer thing. I mean. What our bosses want to know is about voice seekers who are navigating social media. I will say this is that the vast majority of voice seekers are not paying any attention to anything that any of us are doing on social media. Why? Because they're too busy making their own social media content in hopes that they can get clients to give them money to make their content their explainer videos or e-learning modules or audio books. 

12:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Unless of course. 

12:30 I'm going to say there might be that exception when, when you get somebody who finds you on the Web, right, you've been referred. And then they go to your Web site, they see who you are and you've got your social media links there, right, they've listened to your demos, they like you. Or even if you're reaching out to them on email and you've got your social media links on your email. I would suspect. I mean, I know I've done it with certain brands that I found interest in. I will go to their social media just to check it out. I don't investigate, unless, of course, it's. 

12:59 I don't know, maybe it's a product that I want to buy, but I'm not going to go crazy in depth, but I will take a quick look at oh, there's a YouTube channel. Let's see what they've got there. Maybe they've got other products, or maybe they have like a help section or they have something, a tutorial, and so I will kind of breeze through the social media to see if it's something that I want to follow. Because I'll tell you what the way I'm making my purchase decisions these days is really a lot online, through influencers, through following on social media, through SMS text messages. That's a lot of the communication for people saying here I've got a product, are you interested? 

13:39 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Right. You've made an excellent point, which is that if they do, and when they do, check you out on social media, which is usually related to, you've done your marketing you have social media links on your website and then they give it a click. They're vetting you. And you know what? In my experience, when they are vetting you, they're looking to see and you said this if you're a client, basher they're looking to see if you're an. 

14:03 NDA violator. You'd be shocked at how many voice actors implode on social media because they're posting videos of their auditions. This is the cardinal sin of so many people. 

14:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) If you take nothing else away from this podcast, that is yeah that is the cardinal sin. 

14:23 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Assume that every audition that you do is under an NDA. Always do that. 

14:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Audition and client. Like don't even speak a client name until you've got something that's out there published and you've got permission, that's all. I say All that humble bragging I mean I think that's fine, but it's great when you've got the permission to do so. 

14:41 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yeah. So what I always tell my students is that if you want to record yourself doing auditions to have social media content, do it Great, Go for it. Then you wait, Do it Great, Go for it. Then you wait. You wait until the project's been cast, whether it's you or somebody else and wait until the finished product is posted online. It's front-facing, whether it's you or not. Once you've cleared those two hurdles it being cast and it being posted then you can post it. 

15:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But even then— but honestly, why not? Just write your own script. 

15:12 - Tom Dheere (Guest) I'm just saying yeah, if you want to show off. 

15:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I mean write your own script. There's so many tools out there. Tom and I think we had an episode. Yes, yeah, there's so many script libraries out there. 

15:23 - Tom Dheere (Guest) What tool could I use to write a script these? 

15:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) days, or where could I find a script? There's tons of stuff out there. I mean honestly. There's Scripps, libraries everywhere and, as a matter of fact, there's tons of finished products and commercials out there already in reality, and you could just rewrite one of those. 

15:38 - Tom Dheere (Guest) You know what else you could do. Anne is like. I've seen a lot of voice actors over the years who will find a company and they'll look at their content online and listen to the voice actor and the voice actor is awful and what they'll do is they'll re-record it and send it to them and say compare the difference. Wouldn't you rather work with me? If you want to find something that's on social media and the voice acting is not great, you could record yourself doing a better job. You got to be careful about that because you may insult the client because they didn't make good business choices and you may insult the voice actor who did the job. 

16:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, don't try to get the work by insulting. That's the biggest thing. 

16:14 And I always say that you know to my students when they're quick to say the copy is not correct and so I'll just record it the correct way. And I'm like, be careful of that, because usually that copy has been through rounds and rounds of approvals and if you just come up and say, oh, you made a mistake like nobody wants to hear that they've made a mistake, especially if it's gone through multiple approvals right, so you're better off. I would say, subtly communicating with your client, like, hey, I recorded this extra take just in case that's what you meant for the script and give that to them. Don't charge them for it. 

16:43 Give that to them, and then you'll be the hero, you'll be the savior of the day, and that is honestly they'll be like thank you, anne. I can't believe it got through all of these people right. Or I can't believe I made that mistake and forgot the S on the end of that word or whatever it is. You know what I mean. Nobody wants to be finger pointed at and said well, you just did a stupid thing and you made a mistake, Right. 

17:02 - Tom Dheere (Guest) So I do that all the time. I have a lot of European clients, yeah, and it's a lot of translated scripts, because often I'm asked to do an explainer video that's already been produced in French or Italian or whatever. And they say here's the updated script. 

17:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But I have so many clients now who say Tom, make whatever changes you need to make in the script Exactly, which is lovely, but if you, don't have that permission structure with a relatively new client, give them alts. 

17:26 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Oh, yeah, yeah, give them alts, just give them alts All day long. Give them alts all day opportunity and don't charge them for it. 

17:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I never charge them for that To me that's nickel and diming and that's not the professionalism I want to show my client. 

17:37 - Tom Dheere (Guest) So, on social media, obviously avoid insulting anyone on any level, but one of the most important things to do to try to put yourself out there as a voice actor on social media is to demonstrate value and progress. What is your value as a voice actor? How can you demonstrate that on social media? What progress have you made as a voice actor? How can you demonstrate on that social media? I'm now going to contradict myself, anne. Oh, okay, the most important thing is just be a human. Yes, be a good human, hanging out with good humans, collecting good humans, sharing good human stuff with good humans. That's more important than any explainer video that you could post. 

18:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, it doesn't have to be work-related. 

18:14 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Exactly A lot of times, when you're posting content about voiceover accomplishments, it comes out as very braggadocious, yes, and self-aggrandizing. 

18:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, and, yeah, I think, if you just showcased your personality, showcase who you are and bring some. I'm going to say these days, a lot of social media is either educational or entertainment-based, right? So why do I watch videos? Right? And videos, of course, I mean. This is why we're recording in video, tom, because video seems to be the media of choice. 

18:43 - Tom Dheere (Guest) The algorithm rewards it the most. 

18:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, in order to cut through the chaos. So of course, there's video. So, guys, you got to get brave and I'll tell you what. I've been making videos for many years and it's not something that you can do quickly. It does take some thought, some strategy and some practice to get good at it. But if you're authentic, right, and you're showcasing and you're trying to really bring value to the people who are watching, that's going to come through, and so it makes it, in a way, easy. You don't have to be like, oh, I do voiceover or even demonstrate, Because if you're just talking into the camera and you're being authentic and real, guess what? Guess what 90% of the casting specs are written to hello real conversational authentic and allow yourself to come through. 

19:27 allow that and it's interesting because I always say for my students, like the last layer to put on top of your voiceover script or your audition is the point of view, is your emotion right? And that is what. When we're talking to one another, gosh, we bring that out in spades, but yet somehow, when there's words in front of us that aren't our own right, it's very difficult to figure out what point of view, or we can't get past the read of it to even showcase right the point of view. And so when you're out there on social media, connect to people with your heart, connect to people with your authenticity, and people hire people they know like and trust. Isn't that like 101, like marketing 101? People hire people that they know like and trust. So have them get to know you on social media have them get to like you on social media and have them trust you on social media. 

20:12 All the get to like you on social media and have them trust you on social media All the three things. 

20:16 - Tom Dheere (Guest) My most powerful social media tool that I've had for 20 years is blogging, Blogging, putting it on your website and then getting it out there on social media and the specific tool within my blog is a video. 

20:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) A video and a blog, I think. 

20:33 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Video. Oh God, the combination is it's a synergistic combination, but the tool within the blog that I would put on social media. That was a big part of getting me to where I am today, as both a voice actor and the video strategist was talking about all the ways that I screwed up. 

20:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I had a tip of the week. 

20:52 - Tom Dheere (Guest) For like almost 15 years. I had a tip of the week in all of my blogs, which is this is the mistake that I made last week as a voice actor. This is what I learned. And I'm going to pass along that lesson to you, so you do not make that mistake. Before that, all of it was just self-aggrandizing. Look at me, look at me, look at me. And nobody read my blog Once I started talking about my vulnerability and my mistakes and my humanity. 

21:15 My social media presence got a lot stronger. I was connecting with a lot more people. I got a lot more readers and subscribers. So it's always made a difference because social media, it's social media. They use that word for a reason. 

21:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And it's so interesting because you want to present yourself in a certain way on social media or it's always been like oh, you know the whole filter thing, right. So you talk about the filters, especially for like women, and people are like okay, I'm showing my face, I've got photos, I've got video now and here's a filter. And I think that people are just again, they can see through the filters and they really want that authenticity. 

21:53 And for me, as much as I want to say I want to look great on camera a lot of times if I sit here and say to you well, my gosh, you know what, I've got these wrinkles, or I've got some sort of physical like I may have just lost a bunch of weight, but I'll tell you what I've got loose skin now. So I'm really working hard, right, so that I can feel better, get better. And so if, by admitting that and the vulnerability of how I still feel, like, oh, I want to look perfect, but I'm certainly not, and I tell people about that, that's what's going to connect people with me, to want to follow me, is that okay? So she's not that perfect looking filtered face or body or gosh, I have so many flaws. And I think if I say my flaws, that's what makes people say, oh, identify, I've got those flaws too. So I feel like if she can feel confident, then I can. 

22:44 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Right, right. If there's one thing I've learned over the past few years, is that voice acting it doesn't get any easier. 

22:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No, it doesn't, it just doesn't. 

22:54 - Tom Dheere (Guest) There's just different and new types of hard. So Anne and I, who are much farther along in our voiceover journey than many of our bosses, we have our own struggles. 

23:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We just have different sets of struggles. 

23:06 - Tom Dheere (Guest) You're having struggles as bosses when it comes to getting training, getting a demo, building a website, setting up the home recording studio. 

23:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Figuring out what to post on social media. 

23:15 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Figuring out what to post on social media and you recording studio, figuring out what to post on social media, figuring out what to post on social media. And you know, anne and I have checked off those boxes years ago, but you know what. We still need new microphones, we need to replace cables, we need to upgrade our dogs, we still need to record content, we still need to follow industry trends to make sure our performance is relevant to what current casting is calling for. 

23:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And we need to evolve with social media because that is honestly how we get eyes on our business, that's how we market. And, tom, if I had a nickel, for the amount of times I consulted with somebody that said, how do I get work? I mean, this is what you do, too right? How do I get? 

23:51 work in voiceover. Well, you can have the best voice in the world, but if nobody knows about it, they can't hire you. I say that over and over again, and so how are they going to see you, how are they going to hear you? Right? 

24:02 You've got to advertise, and advertising is more than just. Of course, you can do the mining on LinkedIn and get yourself some contacts and do some cold calling. You can even do some direct mail marketing. But I'll tell you what. As I just mentioned, boss has a great product for that, a Boss Plus. But you've got to make sure that these days, you are really tailoring it to your audience. You have to tailor it because there's just so much information and even email now it's harder and harder to get through somebody's inbox, and so you've got to be very strategy conscious when you are creating those emails. You have to know who your audience is. You have to know how to talk to them, just like you do on social media. 

24:39 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yeah, To be great is to be consistently good, and you can't just do the occasional blast on social media, get bored, tired, scared or busy and then just wander off and then go back. Because here's another thing the algorithms of social media need to be fed consistently, you know, and not all of your content is going to be top notch viral content. It's just not going to be what the algorithm recognizes. Consistency as a result of persistency on your part. It is not a sprint, it is a marathon. 

25:13 So to be consistently posting on social media, whether it's photos or videos or blogs or other content. You have to be consistent. Come up with a long-term strategy. Come up with a schedule. There's so many content schedulers out there. There's so many AI-related tools out there to help you come up with ideas for your social media content, Create your social media content Schedule and post your social media content. It takes thought. It takes work. 

25:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It takes time and it's not easy. 

25:42 - Tom Dheere (Guest) No, Anne and I were talking about this before we started recording. It's a constant struggle to come up with new interesting content, assemble the content, edit the content and then schedule the content. And then the second you click that publish or schedule, it's like, okay, what's the next thing I got to do? Amen. 

25:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean amen Again. Like I keep bringing this up, like if I have people that sign up for my free consults and they say you know what? I've got a great demo, but I can't get work, there's two things right Either it's your performance and your auditions, or it's you haven't marketed yourself enough. And again, I can guarantee more than half the time it's going to be the fact that you didn't market yourself enough. You have to market yourself, like insanely, and these days, to market yourself, social media is a huge part of that picture. It just is. 

26:28 And so what do you do when you're just a voice talent, right? And how are you going to market yourself? How are you going to, like, think outside the box? Well, as Tom and I mentioned before, what can you bring to the table that brings either some educational value or some even entertainment value? I feel like voice artists can really bring the entertainment value, because that's really, when I scroll at night, that's what I'm looking at, things that bring me entertainment value, because my brain is fried, because my brain is fried, and so I feel like as voice actors, as actors, we can do something creative and gosh. There's always podcasting, too. That's a form of social well, it's podcasting, but I consider it like a social media marketing. 

27:07 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Oh, it absolutely is. What do you do? The second your podcast is published. Where's the first place you go? 

27:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I social media market the podcast. 

27:13 - Tom Dheere (Guest) You put it on social media. 

27:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly exactly. And that podcast doesn't have to be talking about voiceover. That podcast can simply be whatever you're passionate about, whatever you're experienced in. Bring that past experience to your podcast. I mean, the possibilities are unlimited. And with that, without you direct marketing and hard selling your voice, you've got a platform where people hear your voice and they hear your voice on a consistent basis. And if you end up doing like Riverside, like we do, or some sort of video podcast, they're going to see you as well. So look at, you've just like killed how many birds with you know. I mean, you've just literally checked off multiple boxes just by having a podcast, that's video recorded. 

27:52 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yeah, and they're hard to put together and you know you need a creative team. You need to be able to be objective and figure out what are you lacking, what skill sets are you lacking, and do you develop those skills or do you outsource those tasks? But the most important thing of all of this stuff, regardless of the social media platform you use whether it's video or audio or pictures or whatever is that your most valuable asset to having a strong social media presence as a voice actor is you. You are unique. You have your own set of thoughts and feelings and opinions and experiences. Everything that happened to you before this moment informs you in this moment. So so many of my students try to sell themselves short. Well, I just started to be a voice actor, so I'm not worth anything. Yeah, but it's like weren't you a teacher for 20 years? 

28:41 Yeah, well weren't you a registered nurse for 25 years? Well, maybe you know, it's like you have so much stuff to share. 

28:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You have so many amazing life experiences and stories, all of which can be analogous you know, or allegorical, or anecdotal or any other SAT word I can come up with, because of all the A words you've just come up with A lot of A words in there, like Ann, to informing Thomas. 

29:05 - Tom Dheere (Guest) There's an A in Thomas, but no one calls me Thomas, except for relatives that aren't with me anymore. But, like, all of those things can inform your social media presence, because who you are is authentic. The more authentic you can be, regardless of the content, the more you're going to resonate with people. Just to be successful on social media, be a good human, collect good humans, share human stories. That's your best bet to be successful as a boss. 

29:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What a wonderful note to end our discussion on actually yeah, be a lovely human and bring that to the masses. Oh gosh, we could probably go on forever about social media, but guys bosses, do the thing. As Mark Scott would say, do the thing. Or who else ever says that? It is something that does take time, it takes a strategy. It is a marathon and not a sprint. So thank you, tom, for chatting with me today about that. Always lovely to chat with you. 

29:57 - Tom Dheere (Guest) You too. 

29:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right bosses. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. 

30:09 - Intro (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

Anne welcomes the talented Tawny Platis, an accomplished voice actor and viral content creator. Tawny shares her compelling story, from her early days in childhood acting to launching a successful retail business at just 18, and ultimately thriving in the competitive voiceover industry. Their conversation unearths the business behind content creation and the effort required to engage audiences effectively. The BOSSes insights reveal the importance of passion and joy in crafting content that resonates, whether it's through comedy or informative storytelling. Tawny recounts her own path to becoming a viral sensation and shares how blending various skills and experiences can lead to a fulfilling and impactful career. Tawny shares practical tips for newcomers, from adapting one's voice for various professional settings to building a solid business foundation.

00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, are you struggling with that ever-elusive, real, conversational, authentic, like you're talking to your best friend, Reed Book? Coaching with me and I'll help you take your voice over to a real and believable place. Find out more at annganguzacom. 

00:21 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

00:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey, everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so very excited to have with me in the studio special guest voice actor and boss viral content creator, tawny Plattis, packard, raid, shadow Legends, raycon Headphones and a billion more Too many for me to read. She's also currently the voice of Harmony's mom in the House on the Outland series by Make Animations and is going to play Sophie Bott in the upcoming Garbage People film now streaming on Tubi Tawny yay, you're here Finally. 

01:23 - Tawny Platis (Guest) It was a long time coming. I'm so happy to be here. 

01:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, thank you so, so much for taking a piece of your busy day and talking with us. Gosh, I've been following you for a long time and, I think, to a lot of people in the industry. All of a sudden they're like hey, have you seen this girl with this? Is it the 10 different styles of voiceover? Which is where I? That's the big one, that's the big one, right? Have you seen this girl? I'm like gosh, she's amazing and I'm like I've known that for many years. So perhaps you could take our bosses, who are not as familiar with you as I am and, by the way, I've been a fan of yours and I've watched you like rebrand, like through my eyes, and we could have five episodes talking about what a boss you are. But why don't you tell our bosses a little bit about your journey into voiceover and your career as it stands today? 

02:13 - Tawny Platis (Guest) Yeah, I actually got my first voiceover job when I was six years old for a local radio station in San Diego, but my first on-camera role was for a baby blanket ad, also local to San Diego, when I was about four months old. So I've been doing this for a lot of decades now and kept doing that, you know, local child actor type of stuff until I turned 18. And then I started a retail store because I think we both know at this point, you know, the acting biz is very volatile. 

02:41 So I was like I need to make sure I have like a backup plan just in case. This doesn't work out. So my backup plan was to start a retail business. Funny enough, what were you retailing? Just out of curiosity, if you're familiar with like consignment type stores like Buffalo Exchange, I did that, but it was like baby and maternity stuff. 

02:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, wow, I love that. And was that just something you decided to do on your own Kind of? 

03:03 - Tawny Platis (Guest) I had worked retail. I started working retail when I was like 15, 16, I want to say and I had a knack for it. I was pretty good at sales and I was like I think I could open a store, I think I could do this. I love that. So I was 18 and I did that my senior year of high school. I started doing that. Everybody else was getting ready to go to college and I was opening a store in the neighborhood over to mine and I built it up. It was just me, one other person from this little 500 square foot hole in the wall spot over two years to a 5,000 square foot warehouse type of store and it had 10 to 15 employees. And our biggest year, we did a little under a million dollars in sales. 

03:40 So I went from doing like $150 a day in sales to doing that and being able to be financially independent by the time I was 23. 

03:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So yeah, that's fantastic. Now, that's one part of your story I was not familiar with and that's fantastic. At a young age, the entrepreneur comes out, the boss entrepreneur. So I can only imagine that that really helped give you a great foundation for running your own voice acting business. I feel like you're so multifaceted that you're not just a voice actor. Right, you're an empire, and a lot of that empire and I want to kind of get right into it, because I know there's so many people that are like how did you do it? How did you become viral? Because that is so elusive to many people out there. So talk to us about the foundations in your business right in your retail business that helped you in evolving and growing in voiceover and how you've come to really not just be a voiceover actor but like, literally, you are a content creator, an influencer. 

04:41 - Tawny Platis (Guest) Yeah, influencer that word? Yeah, I am though. 

04:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, but you are, I mean you probably are sick of hearing that, but in reality you really are. I mean you've got the reach out there to really influence a lot of people and affect them. And I know from people who've come to me I'm like have you seen that girl? I mean of course I know that girl, she's super talented. But yeah, talk to the experience of your retail years and how it helped you. 

05:05 - Tawny Platis (Guest) I think that is what has helped me the most, to be completely transparent, being able to also have that background with coming from a family that owned businesses, like for generations, you know, and it was all very much like very squarely middle class businesses too. That's another thing is like it definitely wasn't something where, like I came from, a lot of wealth or anything. 

05:26 Everybody has always been right smack dab in the middle, but the privilege that I had from that was knowing how to run a business and know how to go about using LegalZoom just to start an LLC, and like knowing how to find the information that I needed to do what I wanted to do, and that's a huge leg up, and I often tell people that do ask me about voice acting so what do I need to do? What kind of agents do I need to pursue, what accents, what microphone do I need? And I'm like, like, but honestly, get a business plan, like I was like learn business. 

05:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. I love that. 

05:59 - Tawny Platis (Guest) Yeah right. 

05:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Because if people don't know who you are and can't find you, they can't hire you right as a business. 

06:05 - Tawny Platis (Guest) And get good at sales. That's another thing too is like that has always been, I think really a huge part that gets overlooked in what we do. Like we have people that take all these classes and they're so into the microphone. What microphone do I need? What microphone do you have? Because that's the missing piece of the puzzle. I need to get the microphone, and it really isn't. You know, like that's the easiest part is like getting your sound studio, your recording space, set up. That part's easy. You pay some buddy $100, $200. They do a sample for you, they get you all set up and then you're good to go. 

06:34 How are you finding work? How are you finding jobs? And then are you staying consistent with this? I can't tell people enough that, like there are admittedly so many incredibly talented voice actors out there who send me their stuff and I'm like you're better than I am and they don't do anything with it because they don't know how to sell, they don't know how to run a business. You know, which is kind of an unfortunate part about being an artist and a creative is like we are so focused on that, which is wonderful, but the reality, the unfortunate reality is like. 

07:03 We have to know how to turn that into a business and be able to boss ourselves, because we don't have somebody telling us what to do. So learn how to run a business. That's the biggest piece of advice to doing well in this industry is being able to manage yourself and learning how to sell your product, which is your voice. 

07:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So then let me ask you I assume that your content creation, even though sometimes it seems to have nothing to do with voice, although there's a lot of videos that you've done that talk about voiceover you've also done a lot of videos that don't necessarily talk about voiceover. 

07:37 I mean, you did one video, actually, which I really loved, on synthetic voices, and I was like, where does this woman come from? Because, look, as you know, with the VO Boss podcast and I say this all the time literally for about a year I did extensive interviews with CEOs of AI companies and talking about synthetic voices and talking about ethical practices and all that stuff, and you came out with a video that was so in depth about your thoughts and your take on it, which I was just I don't know where this girl comes from I was just so, so impressed with that. I had to tell you that, as a fangirl and, doing the work that I've done and studying it, I thought that that was an amazing video. So your content is not just about the 10 voices of voiceover. So talk about how the type of content that you create, how does that help you to market? 

08:26 - Tawny Platis (Guest) I love that. You asked that. So the way that that helps me to market is I'm talking about things that are relevant right now, and so much of how I figured that out is what made me, I think, successful in retail as well, which is very much like analytics driven. It's observational. I spend hours, you know, researching what's trending, what are people talking about, how are people moving, how are successful people who are doing what I'm doing? What are they doing? And then to juxtapose that, what is nobody doing either, you know, and how do I combine those things? So it's like I'm filling a need that's not being filled here, but am I doing it in a way that I have seen as proven successful? Like when I had my retail store it was 2009, so cut me some slack here but like I was obsessed with Mark Zuckerberg and what he was doing. You know, I'm like how is he figuring this out? How is he doing all this? Like how? And then Apple I was obsessed with Apple. Like how is Apple dominating? Like this, like, how is this so? 

09:21 relevant dominating the market? 

09:23 yeah, now we know what we know, um, you know, but that has continued in my career with voice acting, with content creation. You know how are people editing their videos, so it's not like copying, like verbatim what somebody's doing, but it's like not doing the millennial pause, for instance, like that's like such a huge faux pas when you're creating content. It's like setting up your camera and then, like you know, right then, like you know, like it's recording, and you leave this big old gap in the beginning to make sure you're recording. It's quick edits, it's speaking quickly and then the topics that you know are trending right now. So so much of I think what goes into that is being very aware of trends, and I say the same thing with voiceover. 

10:02 It's something I have noticed twice now in my career is like the way that I market in content creation is very similar to like what I do in voiceover, in the sense of I'm very much obsessed with the trends and analytics and tracking all of that, and I have noticed that a couple of times in my career now in voiceover, where we've had these big shifts in style and people are often blindsided and I can usually tell those are the voice actors that have stopped watching commercials. 

10:30 They don't take that time every day to go on iSpot TV or Hulu or YouTube or just wherever you find commercials and to watch them and to listen like, okay, who's getting cast what's popular right now? And we had that shift from the announcer read in the 90s and the 1000s to conversational, you know in the 10s. And now we're detached conversational, like with that Poppy commercial in the Super Bowl, and I'm seeing that with voice actors. They're like what does detached conversational mean? What is this? You know, and I'm like I hear it all the time, you know. So I think that, like making sure that you are staying just up to date with everything that's going on, and that means taking those classes, being involved in the community. That's going to ensure that you stay relevant. 

11:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and also for those people that are doing non-broadcast work like e-learning and corporate narration, it's also important to see what is corporate narration. I have so many people that don't really understand what corporate narration is, and within the word corporate narration is the word corporate. Okay, companies are formed for a reason right To sell. So in corporate narration your focus is a sell. Now it's a longer style, it's a longer format than, let's say, a commercial. So your sell is very nuanced and guess you know what? It's not just information delivery, there's a sell. 

11:43 You have to connect and you have to have a back and forth in order to connect with your listener and that becomes a conversation. 

11:49 And so if I say I want it conversational, it doesn't mean I want it casual and I may not want it detached if we're talking about corporate, because in reality, for corporate, you're an authority, you know what you're talking about and you've got a long time to talk about it, so you may not be detached unless you're shooting for a specific market. 

12:06 So I love the fact that you talk about market research, because anybody that goes and all of you bosses out there can go and do research on okay, what's trending in corporate narration? What's trending in e-learning. There's lots of externally facing e-learning modules out there as well, and the one thing that people say is that e-learning is going to get taken up by synthetic voices. But I say that most people that really want a connected teacher and student connection are not going to go that way, and that's the way it should have been all along. But we ended up reading our material like robots and that's kind of why the first thing people think is that, oh yeah, synthetic voices are going to take that over. So the people who thought that was okay, the buyers are going to continue to think that's okay and maybe have a synthetic voice. But those who want a person that can connect right, no matter what genre, they're going to hire that human. 

12:58 - Tawny Platis (Guest) I hope so. That's my thoughts on it. 

13:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's my thoughts on it until, ultimately, our ears become attuned to maybe a different sound. But I love the market research and I love the fact that you kept the word conversational in there, because I don't want to disband the word conversational, because conversation indicates that you've got a back and forth Right. So let's talk about content. In terms of being a boss and creating content, what percentage of your day is thinking of content, creating content? What does it take to create great content? And is there a secret to having that content go viral? Of course, everybody wants to know the secret, that kind of thing. 

13:32 - Tawny Platis (Guest) I'm so glad you asked that too, because everybody's like what's your secret to going viral? From my standpoint as somebody who does this, I don't think there is a secret beyond the secret being like you got to be in the right place at the right time. 

13:45 So often which I don't think people like to hear, because that's very scary that there is a luck component to everything we do, and that doesn't mean it's only luck. 

13:56 That means you have to be really good at what you do, you have to work really hard, and then you also have to get lucky. 

14:00 And I think that's terrifying to people, as they're like so I can do everything right and it still won't happen, and I'm like, yeah, so much of it is the right place at the right time, and then it taking time to. 

14:11 You know, like I've been doing this for years, yes, and then I am, within the last year or so, I'm at the point where it's like I pretty much just need to upload a video every day, couple days, few days, whatever it is. I pretty much just get emails at this point in my inbox that are like hey, we'd like to hire you for XYZ, and I'm very grateful to be in that position to where it's like that's pretty much all the marketing I really need to do, unless I'm after something really cool and specific. Like I'm like I want to do more, like big animation now, so I'm going to reach out to some people, but like now it's like I'm able to like make a living just posting that content and having people find me as a voice actor and hire me for these jobs, and it has taken, you know, literally decades to get to that point of being able to be your overnight success took decades right. 

14:57 Yeah, so yes. 

14:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And the viral thing was the luck component of it being in the right part at the right time. But I mean, you've been posting videos for gosh since I've been following you, which is years, and you had, I think, in the beginning and I always thought that this was such a tough shtick, is you were comedy. I mean, a lot of what you do has a comedy element to it. Do you think that that has something to do with, let's say, your success in terms of being viral or just having people love your videos? 

15:26 - Tawny Platis (Guest) I do. I think that you have to choose one of two things when it comes to doing content creation, or both things. You have to entertain or you have to educate. Yes, I agree, and you know, if you're like me and you don't have a degree, you're not an expert in anything. You can't be like look, I have the piece of paper that says I'm smart. Yeah, you know, you just went right out of high school into the working world. You have to entertain, you know, or you have to establish yourself so much that you do become an expert in something. And again, that takes time just the amount of years you've been doing it. So I was like okay, I don't have the piece of paper saying I'm an authority to speak on something, so I guess I have to be entertaining. And I think that there's a couple ways you can do that, and one of the ways is through making people laugh. You know, and I think that's a big draw to something. It's like oh, I like this content because it makes me laugh. 

16:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Everybody likes to laugh, so that's where that really came from was just not being educated enough to make educational content to me, since I've been following you with the comedy and then also with your experience in retail and having that, I feel like you took on the challenge and you loved it, and so now you've got this really cool mix of. I know maybe you don't want to be called an influencer, but in reality when now people are asking you to create content and sell right and then also use your voice right and you're on camera, so I feel like it just took every piece of you that you've maybe been passionate about or loved. Listen to me, I'm analyzing you right now and it just brought it together into this beautiful like. This is where you are today, unless, of course, it doesn't bring you joy, but I kind of feel like it might. I don't know. I feel like you like what you do. I do like what I do. 

17:05 - Tawny Platis (Guest) I'm very, very lucky that I get to do this and I'm very lucky that I was born into a certain situation where it was truly the perfect storm, where it was like having that family that like could teach me how to run a business. Right, right and like you know, for better or for worse, being put into acting as an infant and doing that for 30 some odd years. I'm extremely lucky in that way that, like I really did have kind of all of that stuff that allowed this to happen. 

17:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, it's like all the pieces together into like where you are today just seem to be like it's all the pieces that you're amazing at and that have just come together to work well for you. I always tell bosses that for me it's worked out to kind of follow where my joys and passions are, because the energy that I'm putting out really is what people can connect to. And that is where I think success comes, and it doesn't necessarily have to be success just financially. It can just be success in like I've created some really great content that has changed people's lives and you have certainly done that. And that, see, I'm going to get all choked up because I know what that's like. 

18:09 Do you know what I mean? I'm not saying that I'm viral, but as a teacher, right, my mission and my joy is to make an impact right and to really help people or make them smile when they're down or, you know, inspire them. And you, I mean I mean you've done that and see, I get, I get. I'm like emotional. I get emotional because I just love that. I love when people can do that and they do do that and they realize it and that seems to be like their mission to really just help and inspire and entertain and make people smile. So Thank you for that. 

18:41 - Intro (Announcement) Thank you for that. 

18:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And now I'm going to ask you do you miss any one part of it more than the other? Do you miss, like on-camera acting, or like, do you feel like in the future you might want to do, like, maybe more of that, or maybe you want to open a new store? Where are you going next? I mean, what's up next? 

18:58 - Tawny Platis (Guest) for you, it will never be retail again. I will live on the streets before I ever do retail again. Retail is so tough, oh gosh. 

19:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What about online retail? Though you don't have the inventory, you don't necessarily have the brick and mortar. 

19:09 - Tawny Platis (Guest) That's the problem. 

19:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No, I mean, you don't have the brick and mortar. 

19:12 - Tawny Platis (Guest) Let's put that right, I always make this joke that I'm like you know, retail is unhealthy. When you go from retail to going to entertainment and go, people are so nice and like encouraging, encouraging, and this is so healthy for me, it's so healthy being in entertainment, you know, like that's really an indicator of how horrendous like working with like retail and customer service and with the public, like that that's so funny that you say that, because I remember when I got married, my in-laws owned a wedding, a bridal shop, and I was like you know, I think this could be a fun thing. 

19:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They're like oh God, no fun thing. 

19:42 - Tawny Platis (Guest) They're like oh God, no, you don't want to go. No, you don't want to go. Oh, I've worked bridal. 

19:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I've worked, bridal, you don't want to go bridal and God forbid, you don't want to go bridal retail. 

19:46 - Tawny Platis (Guest) And I'm like, oh okay, I've worked bridal and I've worked with parents and I don't care for either of those demographics. You know I get you there. 

19:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So let me ask you a question in terms coaching, voiceover coaching Tell us a little bit about that. 

20:04 - Tawny Platis (Guest) Sure, yeah, I do business coaching for voiceover. That is like kind of my main thing. And then I do the surrounding stuff around that. So, like I do like voiceover 101, which is like very like step one through a million of like how to go, and specifically for that person, when it comes to like private coaching, I'm like, okay, what are your goals, what is it you want to do? 

20:28 And then what's your background you know, and then we can talk about like how to get from point A to point B and then also like my opinion on kind of like what you should do, let's get you a voiceover evaluation, kind of get an idea of like how much coaching you're going to need here roughly. And then I also, you know, do the specialty coaching, where it's stuff that I particularly have mastery in. So I teach stuff like you know, the content creation that I've been doing for a lot of years, the business side of things been doing business for a lot of years and then the areas of voice acting where I predominantly work, which is a lot of corporate e-learning and then commercial. I don't think it's really ethical to teach voiceover stuff that you don't have like at least 10 years of experience in, so yeah audiobooks is not one of those things I teach just for that reason. 

21:07 I'm like audiobooks. I'm still newer in that game. So, yeah, that is what I do coach and I have pre-recorded classes that are more generic. So it's more like this is all the ins and outs of the industry as of the beginning of 2024. So that's always a great option for people if they're looking for something that is like more. Let me just hear 130 plus minutes of like what the voiceover industry is and how to like kind of go about it. That's always something that is really really helpful, I have found, for people. But, yeah, I do that kind of coaching and typically with my private sessions, I try to only keep a few people that. 

21:42 I work with at a time so I can really give them the time that I do have, because that's another important thing. If you're teaching voiceover, I think you should be working in voiceover and I am booked every day, agreed, agreed. 

21:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know myself, I'm scheduled to the max because I do voiceover and I coach and I produce demos and I do a couple other things. I do this podcast, so it is every minute of the day is scheduled for me, which I assume is exactly the same for you. So, absolutely, that's wonderful. So, in terms of the future, where do you see yourself in the future? 

22:12 - Tawny Platis (Guest) Honestly, I have no idea and I think that that is because I very much follow where my career is going at the time, where the leads are, and I'm very open to what that could be. I didn't think I'd be here Like I oftentimes tell people, particularly in with what got me into voice acting full-time. I never thought that was going to be where I ended up. I went into corporate and I was like this voice Because like I pitch my voice lower so I sound like an adult, but like I have a very high pitch, like I don't usually show people my natural voice, but like my natural voice is really up here, like when I talk to people, but I sound like a baby. So I'm like always like sound like an adult and like one of my teachers told me that in high school she was like you need to do something about your voice. 

22:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, interesting, yeah, otherwise nobody's going to take you seriously. 

22:58 - Tawny Platis (Guest) And I was thinking like, even with this being my pretend speaking voice. I still feel like it's pretty high. So it was like nobody's going to hire me for corporate. And then somebody found me for corporate and that's where I ended up and I do a lot of that kind of e-learning corporate stuff in San Diego that's so interesting. 

23:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So now, when you're completely relaxed, does your voice, do you let your voice go back up, or is it something you've just kind of muscle memory trained yourself to kind of just speak in a particular pitch? 

23:25 - Tawny Platis (Guest) It's very muscle memory. The only time when that does come out is when I am really comfortable and relaxed. So, like you know, if my voice starts going up, like that, like that's how you know I'm like really comfy with you. 

23:37 So if I start talking to you like this, that's how you know that we're really tight, so pretty much like my roommate, my best friends, like family, like they will hear that one, but even with them it usually like it'll take a few minutes or a drink to like a drink or two, and then it comes back. Yeah, I got you, I got you. 

23:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow. Well, what would be your best tip for those bosses just starting out in the industry? 

24:03 - Tawny Platis (Guest) My best tip business class, like from somebody who teaches business, like and general business, is great too. I think it applies, I think retail applies so heavily to voice acting funny enough or maybe not so funny, but I think like just that is such an oversight. You know so much of voiceover you can learn very quickly, and then the rest of it is practice, which there's no rushing, there's no rushing practice. You know, some of us have, I think, kind of more of an inclination similar to like learning piano, where like you have that friend. 

24:32 that just it makes sense to them and it doesn't make sense to you and you have to practice more and that's just is what it is. But I don't feel like there's enough emphasis put on the business and the sales side of what we do. So, like that's, my biggest advice is like get those classes, do your research before you pay for anything like ask around, make sure you take your time so you find somebody who's reputable. I think we both know that's another big issue in our industry. So, yeah, I think that is probably the best piece of advice I could give to people who are starting out in this. 

25:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, that's great advice. So how can bosses get in touch with you if they would like to find out more and overwork with? 

25:10 - Tawny Platis (Guest) you? Yeah, my website is tawnyvoicecom and I have all my contact information there. Depending on how you want to get in touch with me, there's a lot of different ways, awesome. 

25:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, thank you so much. Oh my gosh, I could talk to you for another hour or so, and then maybe we'll be at that level where you're talking with your real voice to me. But anyways, thank you so much. We so appreciate the words of wisdom that you've given to us Bosses. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too, can network and connect like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Tani, you're the best. Thank you so much. 

25:45 Thank you, Bosses have a great week and we'll see you next week. Bye. 

25:50 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOBosscom and receive exclusive content industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a bosscom and receive exclusive content industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipdtl. 

Discover the keys to financial success in your voiceover business with our latest episode featuring the savvy money boss herself, Danielle Famble. Learn how to categorize your business expenses to maximize tax benefits and streamline your finances. From new equipment to that signature lipstick you love, learn how to turn everyday purchases into strategic business investments. Danielle shares her expert advice on the importance of collaborating with accountants and bookkeepers to ensure every dollar spent works for you, boosting both profitability and business accountability. Our conversation also includes actionable tips for managing your finances effectively, focusing on understanding profit and loss statements. Regularly reviewing your financial statements can prevent overspending and foster business growth, and we provide the know-how to keep your budget healthy.

00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, Anne Ganguza here. Are you ready to take the next step in your voiceover career? At Anne Ganguza Productions, I specialize in target marketed coaching and demo production that gets you booked. If you're thinking about elevating your performance or creating an awesome demo, check me out at annganguzacom. 

00:22 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, nne Ganguza. 

00:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Money Talk series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm delighted to bring back our resident money boss, Danielle Famble, to the show. 

00:55 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Danielle- hey Anne. 

00:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yay, welcome. How are you today? 

00:58 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Hey, I'm great. How are? 

00:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) you doing? I'm doing awesome. Well, danielle, I bought a new lipstick for the show, a new lipstick the new Red Boss lipstick. Those people that know me know that I'm all about my lipsticks and I talk about my lipstick brand and I use my lipstick and my colors for my branding, for my business. And I started to think, well, okay, can I expense this lipstick? Right, can I expense this lipstick? And so I chatted with my accountant to find out if it was possible to do that, and you know what it is. So I am so excited that I can now put lipstick. And we all know about these headphones. I was like, yeah, I know I could have expensed these headphones. It's a business expense, but guess what this lipstick is too. 

01:45 And I think it's important for bosses to understand a little bit I think more about. We talked in our last episode about how important education was to the bosses. It's important to educate yourself on the basics of, let's say, bookkeeping for your business, like what sorts of things do you spend money on and how do you categorize them. I think that's an important aspect of bookkeeping. What are your thoughts on that, danielle? 

02:09 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Oh yeah, that's really important. It's important to know how your business is working and bookkeeping is sort of the daily ledger of what money is coming in and going out for your business, knowing even the basics of bookkeeping and the basics of bookkeeping. In our last conversation, our last episode, we talked about the bookkeepers or people that you might have on your team, which they may be doing it, but you, as the VO boss, should understand even just the basics of bookkeeping for your business. So you know, when I spend money on this lipstick or these headphones or a new microphone, these are expenses that can be expense for my business. And what are the categories that you can expense things in your business. I recently bought a ticket to go to another one of the voiceover conferences and so I was thinking, okay, how am I expensing this? What account am I using for it? Making sure it's in my business account and it's going to be expense for continuing education. So I know the different categories and what you can expense in your business. 

03:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I think it's so important because before I actually had an accountant and I was trying to do this all on my own and I'm like, well, all right, at least I learned that I needed to have right. We talked how important it was to have that separate business account. 

03:20 But, then all of a sudden it was like what are my expenses, right? I just started throwing everything in and then it would always ask me what's the category? And I'm like, oh, I didn't think about what are the categories that are useful in your bookkeeping for voiceover? And I thought, wow, there's equipment, my internet connection. How do I classify that right? Subscriptions. 

03:40 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) SourceConnect. Even I pay for extra storage with Google, with my Gmail. That kind of thing can be expensed. The people that you work with. So we talked about the bookkeepers and the CPAs paying them for their services. 

03:55 Working with professionals, so professional fees there are so many things. 

04:00 That's what's great about running a business is that you get to make money and then you can expense all of these different things and then you're taxed on that. 

04:10 It's completely the opposite, for as a person, you get taxed on the money that you bring in, right, and then anything else is sort of just like deductions but like running a business is really amazing. That's why I love getting into the weeds about money and finances and bookkeeping, because once you learn how to sort of not play the game but kind of play the game, you can really make your business work for you much more efficiently. So learning about what it is that you're trying to do and making sure by being educated through a CPA or just finding you know education on your own, making sure that you can expense that appropriately for your business, sure, legally, in a tax efficient way, you can do a lot because we we use our bodies for our business. The chair that I'm sitting in in my studio is like an expensive ergonomic chair that normally I would not have ever purchased, but I'm in this chair for hours and so back support is really important, so that was part of the furniture of my office space. 

05:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And even medical that isn't covered by insurance, right? Medical expenses? Because is my Peloton? Is that an expense for my business? 

05:19 And I love what you said about knowing these things right and understanding the basics of what can be expense. 

05:26 What category am I putting it in? Because when I first started, I all of a sudden thought, oh God, there's categories. And then I didn't really categorize them properly, or I didn't quite know what categories to create, I mean. But in the end, when you look at your profit and loss statement, which is something that's so very basic to any accounting, right, I would look at the number and I'd say expenses, and it would be one big lump sum and I'd be like, well, what did I spend my money on? Right? And so that's where I think the importance of being able to categorize things really comes into play. And the fact is is that when you know about categories and things that you can expense for your business, it opens up the door of so many possibilities. It allowed me to confidently say, all right, I can do this, knowing that I'll be able to expense it for my business, and I think it helps me to actually go forth more confidently and also be more willing to try new avenues to grow my business. 

06:21 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, the confidence that comes from the education is second to none. And I will say, the best place to get that level of education for your business, for the business that you, vo Boss, are running not my business or Ann's business, but your specific business is to go to the person who has the knowledge about the numbers of your business it makes no sense to expense everything and who has the knowledge about the numbers of your business. It makes no sense to expense everything and then at the end of the year it looks like you made no profit because, again, the idea of running a business is to make a profit. It's not just to break even. We want to make money. That's why we're here. 

06:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And, by the way, if you report to the government that you've lost money for over five years in a row, they're going to start getting suspicious. And then the audit will come and, by the way, I've been audited twice and. 

07:09 I'm not ashamed of it because there's no foul play there or anything like that. I mean, literally, it's just when you run a business and you make money, they get a little bit interested in it and you can't have any red flags show up. And if you're going to be expensing everything and not showing a profit for a certain amount of time, then it might get a little bit suspicious. So you really need to work with someone, I think, that has an awareness of what's in the realm of reality, so that you're not necessarily taking advantage, even though I have my accountant. I literally purchased Rocket Money last year because I had so many subscriptions and I lost track of them, and that's like a big thing. Now is everything digital, is you're buying a subscription to it? I had subscriptions I forgot about right, and so I paid, of course, a subscription price to use rocket money. And then the funny thing about it is that if you do rocket money, they'll go and they'll find all your subscriptions, and then ultimately, you can even say at the end I'm like, oh gosh, do I really need to pay seven? I think it was $7 a month. Do I need to pay $7 a month to Rocket Money now Because they found all my subscriptions. They also offer to reduce the amount of money for your subscriptions because they'll go and negotiate with the companies to get a better rate. 

08:22 A lot of times you can say you know what I mean, I just can't afford it. I'm getting ready to cancel. And then they'll renegotiate with you. But you can also renegotiate with Rocket Money and say I can't afford the $7. And they'll say, well, what do you feel is fair? And so I said, all right, I can pay $3 a month. And so guess what? I? That's fantastic. But I've already paid them for two years. 

08:42 And all of a sudden I realized down at the bottom, I was thinking about canceling. And then they're like, hey, why don't you pay us what you think is fair? I said, all right, well, I can do this. Suffice to say, it's just one of those things that it helps you to really identify, like where your money is going. And so categories to me seem to be such a fundamental part of basic accounting and bookkeeping. And so what are some other like? If you look at a profit and loss statement, like I know some people, their eyes are maybe glazing over Profit and loss. It seems so formal. But what sorts of things are we going to be looking at when we see a profit and loss statement Like what's important for us to know as business owners? 

09:22 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) The main thing with a profit and loss statement is it really is sort of the name of it Profit, how much came in? How much money did the business make in this given period of time? Let's say it's a quarter or a month and I've been receiving monthly profit and loss statements. But how much money did you make during this given period of time and how much money went out during that same given period of time? 

09:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Inflows, outflows. 

09:45 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Inflows and outflows, how much came in, how much went out. I think it's really important to first think about how much came in, because you have a lot of control over that. That could be how much you're quoting for your clients, how many jobs that you've done, what your bookings are like. You have control over that aspect of it and you also have control over the loss side of it. How much is going out? So things like your subscriptions, which for me, I will say, when I really started like digging into my profit and loss statement, when I looked at subscription, I was like, well, what am I spending my money on? This is so much, it's crazy, crazy. Apple. Google Source. 

10:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Connect Internet connection. 

10:27 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Internet connections Internet connections, all the things. Quickbooks, yes, quickbooks. 

10:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) My account. 

10:32 - Intro (Announcement) All these different things. 

10:34 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I mean it's just like I probably just named $100 just in that you know. Yeah, so it's knowing what is going out. Subscriptions for me is huge. Also, sometimes equipment but I don't buy a lot of equipment for my business that often Like, yeah, maybe I'll buy another microphone or an interface or an extra cable just in case For me. 

10:57 And again, this is something that a VO boss can look at their business and say, what do I need for my business? And then you'll know, okay, this is the category and this is how it's going to affect my profit and loss. But normally for me anyway, my business with the profit and loss, with the monthly expenses, it's really those subscriptions. And I think I love what you said about Rocket Money, where you can take a look and see like, do I really need all these subscriptions? And then you can kind of tune what is going out on your profit and loss statement. Another aspect would be the people that you pay. So if you have an assistant or a bookkeeper or if you're working with a CPA or whatever else that's going on. And it really is kind of going back to personal finance. It's kind of like looking at your budget for the month how much is going out for your budget every month in your home and then how much is coming in. It's the same kind of thing. 

11:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So profit and loss, your profit. And then, of course, what are some other, let's say, terms that you might see on a profit and loss statement, and I'm thinking like expenses right, obviously or inflows, outflows, assets I know I see that term a lot. What do you consider to be an asset in a voiceover, in a VO business? 

12:11 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) So, assets are anything that you own, that your business owns. I consider assets to be things like my booth is an asset. I could sell my booth for a certain amount of money, and so that's an asset. My microphone is an asset. My interface is an asset, any sort of like business furniture, that kind of thing those are the assets. 

12:33 A physical item, a physical item Like what the business owns. I'm a physical item, but my voice is the business, and so I am an asset of my business as well. I mean, you can't sell me. 

12:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You can sell your voice. 

12:47 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yes, I license the use of my voice. I sell my voice, but really, assets are anything that your business owns, but those are things that may or may not show up in your monthly profit and loss. Well, they might show up in your monthly profit and loss, but for me, when I'm looking at it, I'm looking at expenses. 

13:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, when I'm looking at my overview, I'm seeing assets in there. So that was just a term that I thought oh God, assets. It just seems so foreign. You know what I mean Because I'm not a financial person, so to speak. I mean, but I have to be a financial person enough to understand what I'm looking at on any given month or any given report, a profit and loss statement Also, so I know. Another term that I've seen on my reports is liabilities. What would be my liability? 

13:31 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Liabilities would also be like your debt, so what you owe For me? I put most of my expenses on my business's credit card, yes, and then I pay that off at the end of the month, so I'm seeing sort of a rotating liability. 

13:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I was going to say your credit card would be considered a liability then right, because that's something that you owe on. 

13:51 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Right, and for me that's, generally speaking, what it looks like in this business. 

13:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that makes sense. And one note that I'll say about my I have a business credit card, which is I think it's one of the best. In addition to that separate business account, having a business credit card makes it so, so easy. I have a business credit card and a business debit card, and it makes it so easy to keep track because, again, everything is like electronic these days, and so I can feed it in as a stream into my QuickBooks, and so the only issue I have, though, is I have a business American Express Now my American Express. 

14:28 In and of itself, that credit card categorizes things, but it doesn't necessarily categorize it as it comes into QuickBooks, so that's something that my bookkeeper or accountant will do to make sure that we know, okay, what was that $100 charge or what was that charge that just came through, that charge that just came through, and so I think that having a if you can keep it simple we talked about that before if you can keep it simple, having a business card that you use just for business expenses and that can include, like, maybe, paying stuff online or physically buying like a new mic, or going out and buying dinner for voiceover people during a meetup, right, that kind of thing. I will always use my business card so that that can just go automatically into my expenses. 

15:12 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Absolutely. I do the same thing. My business credit card is through Chase and what's interesting is that Chase will do its best to categorize things, but it's not quite right all the time and then bring it into QuickBooks, because I have QuickBooks automatically linked to. Chase. It's not the same thing. So part of the basics of bookkeeping for me is making sure that I have done the homework of categorizing it correctly in Chase and in. 

15:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) QuickBooks. That's a good point. 

15:46 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Really, the person who's doing the QuickBooks, more or less, has in the past been my bookkeeper, but I'm starting to take more responsibility for it because my bookkeeper makes assumptions and will ask me about it. But I have the single point of truth because I was the one who swiped it. Sometimes I'm like what was that? What version of Danielle swiped that card? 

16:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) for that thing I always be like what is this charge? I would say, bosses, it's so important to do. When you do have a business card, a business credit card or a business debit card, it's like really visit those transactions like frequently, because there'll be a lot of times when it'll be fresh and you'll be like I have no idea who that vendor is Like, what is that charge for? I have no idea who that vendor is Like, what is that charge for? And if you can immediately just kind of make that adjustment, it's going to be so helpful, rather than waiting until the end of the month and then saying, oh my gosh, I have no idea who this vendor is, and then maybe you find out you have that subscription you've paid for six months in a row and you didn't need it. So I think it's important to always be checking those expenses all the time and looking at them, because sometimes and I will say this as a girl who loves to shop and I love to shop online Amazon has ruined me. 

16:51 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I'm just saying I'll tell you Same, same. 

16:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I need it now. I need everything because Amazon seems to sell everything and I need it before 24 hours. This is a side note, but anytime I work through another vendor and it takes like five days to ship, I'm like really what? Yeah, you don't have that two-day shipping what is that what's going on? And then when Amazon delays the order, I'm like what? Like I get angry, but anyways, I digress. 

17:14 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) No, but you're making a really good point and I'll speak from personal experience, because this is something that I did not do for the longest and I'm currently in the moment going through three or four months ago of expenses because I didn't do it even though yeah, my bookkeeper will, but I'm sort of like after the fact, following up on what my bookkeeper did, because maybe it is or is not the correct yes thing to categorize. 

17:38 It's something that can be done at the end of the week and it takes just a few moments, yeah, but if you put a little bit of time into it more frequently, it will save you hours and googles and headaches later. 

17:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Calling. I agree I don't do it as much as I should either, and it's just one of those things that when you have to go back and figure out, oh my God, what was that expense? So I think it's important absolutely that you are looking at your cards and your debits and outgoing expenses and, of course, incoming as well. The other thing that I want to talk about is the fees. Right, Because the fees are not something that aren't automatically handled all the time by QuickBooks. When you have a I guess you call it a feed your bank feed right, it could be things coming in from PayPal. Well, PayPal takes a certain amount, a percentage, for transactions. Stripe takes a certain percentage, Everybody does. Quickbooks takes a certain percentage. You have to account for that in your bookkeeping and that is an important thing to categorize, because maybe you think you're making $100, but in reality you're making $98.53. And so that becomes an important thing. 

18:43 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) It's incredibly important too, because, yes, you are not making the $100 to your point that you think you are, but that fee is a business expense, that fee is a cost of doing business, and so it does need to be accounted for appropriately. Now, does that mean that I am the person going through and marking every single fee? 

19:03 No, that is why I have eventually outsourced that to a bookkeeper, but I do need to know the difference between how much should have come in and these fees, because the fees are an expense and those expenses do add up. So when you're looking at your profit and loss it's like whoa, what is this? You should understand that some of this is fees. Some of it is Danielle swiping the card for whatever thing, maybe a subscription, or maybe buying something for my business. But you should know the difference. And then that actually gives you the opportunity to decide and plan and budget for your business. Oh yeah, so if I can see what's going on with my expenses, maybe I've been spending a little bit too much on subscriptions. If I can cut that back, then I can use that additional money to take a class or to do a coaching or whatever. It gives you the knowledge and it arms you with like what you need to be financially responsible for running your business. 

20:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And also it helps you to determine as well what to charge. Yeah, because sometimes I take fees into account. I do believe that fees are part of being a business. So I'm not that one person who says, can you pay me friends and family? Because if it's a business, I mean I'm willing to pay that. I mean, if I can get away with it, sure, not paying that fee, but in reality I'm a business. 

20:24 So I've come to accept that there will be a fee and so if I want to make it accountable, right, I'm going to have to pay that fee. So I might. Then, instead of charging $100 for the job, I might charge $125. And then I've accounted for that fee in my head, but I haven't told anybody that I'm accounting. Necessarily, the company doesn't need to know that I'm charging $25 more because I want to account for that fee, or whatever I decide to do. I mean, that's one thing is being aware of those expenses as you are getting paid will help you to determine your fair compensation. And of course, we always like to say that you are worth it. Yes, you are, so price yourself appropriately. 

21:03 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) And I think being aware it means really looking at like the data of your business. That's how you become aware. Really looking at like the data of your business, that's how you become aware. 

21:13 If you allow someone else to deal with it, then you're not really aware of what's going on with your business and you're missing out on some opportunities for maybe charging more or maybe how you can save money because you're spending a certain amount more than you should or more than you've budgeted. Staying on top of the basics of the bookkeeping really kind of keeps you aware of what's going on in your business. Again, I'll say I've not done a great job at this in the past and I'm learning from my negligence in the past is really that like. If I can keep my mind and my eyes on the day-to-day expenses and profit in my business, that actually makes me feel so much more confident and competent when I am requesting or making a quote for a certain amount of money. However, I'm running my business. 

21:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's giving me so much more confidence because I know the day-to-day data of my business financially speaking, yeah it is absolutely important and, as I was alluding to before, being an online girl, like an online shopper, when I went off on that tangent of Amazon, sometimes it's like a little bit of an addiction. It's like here, click, buy, and it's so easy. And again, it's so easy to not look right, it's so easy to not look at your credit card expenses, or so easy to like kind of avoid it. And I'm that person. I'm willing to admit it. I mean, I've been in denial. I might have had a month or two where I was like way overspent, I shouldn't have purchased that. 

22:36 But I think keeping your eyes on your finances it's kind of like you know, I've been on this health journey, right, and before I wouldn't look at the scale, I would not look, I did not weigh myself for a long, long time and now, all of a sudden, when you're watching right, it makes you become more conscious and it keeps you more on top of things. 

22:51 So I do believe it's very important for you to really check those finances, check the bookkeeping, and it'll really, like you said, make you feel so much more confident and so much more competent right in running that business, because you will have a handle on. Okay, I know that I'm not really utilizing this subscription software anymore, so I can maybe give that up and then maybe invest in something else. So it really clears the path for you to grow. And I think that is one thing that is so important in our businesses that we should always be looking for opportunities to grow and financial anything should not be inhibiting us from doing that. If you can find ways to save, find ways to be aware of your finances and understand, oh, I can save something here, so that means I can invest more here, that's just going to give you a whole lot more confidence moving forward. 

23:41 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, I love that. And also, if you're not sure and you have questions, the best place to ask those questions or the best person to ask those questions is to the person who knows your business intimately and also what the implications are. So that would be an accountant or that would be some sort of professional. It's not going to the Facebook groups and saying, hey, can I expense? Blah, blah, blah, because what I can expense in my business may be different than what you can expense in your business and my revenue and ability to expense certain things in my business can maybe withstand me spending a certain amount of money on a certain category. 

24:16 So my answer might be not the right answer for your business. So I think it's really important to educate yourself. Find the perfect person to educate you, and it's someone who knows your business. And if you don't work with an accountant already, find someone, have them look at the numbers of your business. And if you don't work with an accountant already, find someone, have them look at the numbers of your business and then they can tell you specifically the answer to your specific unique business. 

24:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And they can help you set up those categories which we say are so important, right and then? So I would say absolutely kind of, to recap right, your essentials of bookkeeping are to really keep an eye on a daily, weekly basis on inflows and outflows, understand your categories and if you don't know how to categorize something, you can certainly talk to your bookkeeper or someone knowledgeable that can help you with that. And is it an expense, yes or no? You can find out more that way and ask someone that this is what they do for a living I mean, I'm a big proponent of that and educate yourself on the basics of looking at a profit and loss statement, because I think that's going to be so important in helping you to really organize and make plans and strategize your goals for the future. 

25:24 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Absolutely. 

25:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, another wonderful Money Talks with Danielle today. Thanks so much for joining me again. I'm looking forward to our next podcast, Thanks and me too. 

25:36 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, I love it. I love talking money. 

25:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, and a big shout out to IPDTL you too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week and make sure to check those books. We'll see you next week. 

25:52 - Intro (Announcement) Bye, guys, bye join us next week for another edition of vo boss, with your host and ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

Immerse yourself in the art of building and sustaining your business. In this episode, the BOSSES highlight the critical role of consistent auditioning and active marketing, emphasizing the necessity of maintaining strong connections with industry professionals. Overcome fears and harness your unique personality and energy to make genuine connections. Get inspired by our creative marketing techniques, including SMS and email outreach, and learn how to ensure you're always top of mind with potential collaborators. The path to success requires more than just setting up a business; it demands passion, dedication, and relentless hard work. Join us and discover strategies to elevate your voiceover business and rock your business like a true boss!

00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey Boss, talent Anne Ganguzza here with a quick shout out to those who are a little freaked out about marketing VLBoss Blast is your secret weapon making your marketing manageable. Your voice deserves to be heard. Join us at vlbosscom and start your marketing campaign today. 

00:22 - Testimonial (Announcement) I've just finished listening to Creative Brilliance with Improv, nne and Law, and all I can say is yes, ladies, improv is absolutely one of my favorite activities, and the life of the pre-life is real. Remembering that the run-in line, or your lead lead in line, does not only exist at the beginning of your read, but throughout, it's a critical activity. The running conversation that has to happen in your head truly makes a difference. So, ladies, thank you so much. I greatly appreciate it. 

01:02 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, anne Ganguza. 

01:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)  Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with my boss superpower business buddy, Lau Lapides. Hey, Lau, how are you today? 

01:38 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Annie, fabulous, how are you I? 

01:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) missed you. I know it's been a while it has been too long Lau, and so I asked how are you? How's it going? I mean, what have you been working on? 

01:46 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Well, let me just say this I haven't had a booking in a while. 

01:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Really yes. Well, how often are you auditioning? 

01:54 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I'm auditioning every day for like an hour, maybe even two, and I'm waiting for my agents and I have a few agents to send me things and they haven't. 

02:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I'm really upset. Well, I think maybe it's time for us to sit down and have a talk about getting real and really talking about what does it take to get work in this industry. I don't think. Maybe waiting for your agents and you know this as an agent is necessarily something that you want to be doing. I think let's talk about how we can be proactive as actors, because I hear that a lot. I mean, thank you for that little role play Lau.  

02:31 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I was just about to say. I actually spoke with a coaching client this week who gave me that exact conversation and I wanted to role. Play that with you because it's common. 

02:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now I have so many students that talk to me and say are we ready to make that demo? I mean, why do I need more sessions? I'm like if you could do some more homework I give homework, I'm a homework girl and so they could be practicing scripts like an audition, like auditions, every single day. And yet at the end of a week they might've recorded one or two. And then they're like well, why am I not any closer to my demo? I'm like well, how much work have you put into it? 

03:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So yeah, that's an excellent, excellent topic. 

03:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What does it take? How much do we have to put into our careers? Yeah, get out what you put in. 

03:19 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Well, listen, you're taking the words right out of my mouth. Like we're sisters, east West Coast sisters. I was just about to say you get out of it what you put into it. 

03:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It sounds so cliche, but I'm telling you, I'm saying that more than ever now, and the truth is. 

03:35 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) The truth is we're even grinding more these days for less at times, because of the saturation of competition, so you just have to put that into your equation. 

03:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I like that you brought that up, because now we've got evolving moving parts too, right. I mean, 10 years ago, the industry was a particular way. There were so many people in the industry, but I'll tell you what it's more saturated than ever. I'm not here to say that there isn't work, because there's a ton of work out there. However, my goodness, you have to realize that and I say this how many times have I said this? On how many podcasts Lau when we go to school and learn a skill, I mean we practice that skill for hours. We go to school for years, and so I don't understand why people that come into this industry think that they can just immediately go out and book work as if they've been doing it for years. 

04:32 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Well, you know, that's very interesting. You say that, annie, because I'm seeing especially an older set and some have been in it for three, four, five, six years and feel like veterans. Three, four, five, six years and feel like veterans and to some degree they are veterans say, okay, where's my payoff, okay, where's my semi-retirement, so to speak, like it should just be coming in like mailbox money and I don't have to do much, when the truth is, if you look at and I always go back to, like the biggies, the big box stores, they're running advertising, they're running sales, they're thinking up new campaigns. What aren't they doing right? And they've been around for 50, 60, 70 years. Think about that. It's because their competition is shifting, the generations are shifting and they really have to keep up with those tides. They can't sit back and say and they really have to keep up with those tides. They can't sit back and say, oh, but we're Target and we've been around now for 60 years. 

05:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, you have some competition now, especially online, and so yeah, I'm glad that you brought that up because it affects everyone. It doesn't just affect new people coming into the industry. It affects veterans in the industry as well, because if they're not moving with the times and they're not paying attention and their eyeballs aren't open and they aren't thinking outside the box these days and that includes, maybe working with different coaches on different genres because every little bit, even though you might be a polished actor and you've been doing this for years I mean, I'm a lifelong learner I think you can always get something from more education, and so I really feel as though it's important for actors to continue their education and continue their quest for thinking outside the box. Days, voiceover industry because it is truly the whole digital online thing has really just disrupted disrupted what used to be, and we need to be prepared for that and we need to be able to roll with the changes, roll with the punches, so to speak that's a perfect word you're using. 

06:37 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) That's like the new word disruptor be a disruptor. Well, I'm going to disrupt you right now and I'm going to say you do have to work harder. And that's not welcomed by a lot of people who are being brought up in this ideology of work-life balance. Well, I'm telling you, when you're building business and you're grinding in business, there is not the work-life balance that you would like to have. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You just cannot as much as we try to generationally. And I'm not saying don't take care of yourself or don't be good to yourself and be healthy, but I am saying you will have somewhat of an imbalanced life as you're building business and sustaining and keeping business, because you have to grind, you have to work really hard. 

07:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You made a big distinction. I'm going to tag on to that and say that this is your own business and so, yeah, that only needing to put in the work for so many hours per day and not necessarily doing more than that, I don't know if that holds water when you are running your own business, because in reality, it's not like you're depending on someone to give you that paycheck every week or every two weeks. Now you're the one that's going out and doing everything and generating the leads, and so I mean absolutely I'm not saying you can't work nine to five if that's what you choose. However, if you choose that, understand that there's consequences for that, especially when you're first starting out. I mean, in order to get the work, you've got to generate the leads, and a lot of times I mean I think people have to know that they probably have to work harder than they thought to generate those leads. 

08:11 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I think that's really it. Everybody's like well. 

08:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm not booking. I'm not booking. I have great demos and now I'm not booking and I'm like well, okay, let's just talk about the first thing. I asked you about auditioning. So, auditioning, how often are you auditioning? How many auditions? Now, I know if people aren't paid to plays, they might get penalized if they audition too much. However, there is a multitude of opportunities out there and I'm not saying you should spend eight hours a day auditioning. However, you've got to go out there and search the opportunities. If you're not auditioning, you should be marketing to people who can give you opportunities. Right? 

08:42 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Right. And how many of these folks too, when you really dig a little deep and dive in there, annie, they're not keeping up with their current connections. Oftentimes they haven't flagged them, they're not in their calendar. Maybe they did an audition, a showcase, whatever, a year ago. They haven't been in touch with them. It's this ideology of I'm still waiting for things to come to me rather than proactively going out and getting them. And the building and sustaining of relationships, as you and I know, is really about reminding. It's like think of yourself. 

09:18 Top of mind. Hey, I'm here. Yes, think of yourself in terms of advertising. Right, Advertisers have to show you something 10, 15, 20, 25 times in a day, maybe even more right? Well, we do too. 

09:29 We have to remind people that we're here, remind them what we do, remind them that we have a relationship together. That's on me, that's on you, that's on the onus of us, right? And you and I are great examples. We've been in our businesses for 15, 16, 17 years. Now you and I are texting each other on a Saturday in the middle of the night, absolutely Now. 

09:50 True, we're on different time zones, but we're still obsessively up in the middle of the night thinking, ooh, why don't we do this on Wednesday? And what's next? Exactly so isn't there a part of that like, if we take out the obsessive quality, which I understand, I'm obsessive To your audience, I am, and I admit it but isn't there a part of it that's so fun, that's so much joy, that's like you get a kick out of thinking up new ideas and executing them and going after six people that you haven't talked to in a few months, and I feel like it, authentically, is missing from a lot of people's like persona to do that. They feel like, oh, where's my job and where's my money and where's my credit? Versus where's my process, yeah, yeah. 

10:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you brought that up. 

10:40 You need to give a reminder to these people. 

10:42 I mean, that's the whole, and I know that people are scared about spamming, but, honestly, if you take a look at the trends now in marketing and email marketing, especially on the retail level right, because I joined a lot of mailing lists and I always encourage people to join mailing lists for companies that they want to work for, so that you can understand how they market and then you can learn a lot from other companies marketing really Retail wisewise I get reminders, I get text messages and I'm trying to think outside the box about okay, how can I SMS text my clients, which is now becoming an option for a lot of the new marketing methods out there. 

11:21 I mean, I know the Wix backend now enables you to SMS remind people or text them within your sales promotions, and that's kind of a cool thing that people can, of course, opt out of, but I'm doing a lot of my business via text. So for me, my brain is thinking how can I keep connected with my clients right Via text, so that it's not intrusive, but yet says, hey, I'm here, by the way, and kind of spark that top of mind where they're like. Oh yeah, ann would be great for this job. 

11:53 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yes, yes, yes, I mean anything you can be thinking about, even one new methodology that you bring into your business. It doesn't have to be every single day, it doesn't have to be all day long, it's just one new concept. One new idea can change the whole face of what you do and really how you work. I oftentimes say to folks that we're coaching do you know, if you reach out to one new person or one new company a day, which for you and I is not a whole lot, but for someone else it might be a lot to take on? One, that's five a week in terms of work days, that's 20 in a month, yeah, 20. And then you say, but Lau, I can do three or four in a day. And I say, well, then do it, because then you're going to be 100 prospects richer by the end of the month. Absolutely. 

12:42 And why aren't you doing that? And you know what the reason is. I'll tell you one of the firewalls reasoning behind why they're not doing it is, I'm afraid, Laura. Why are you afraid? I'm afraid. I don't know what to say to them. Yeah, yeah. 

12:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I say, let's start off by just being human and making sure that you have done your research on them so that you can make a good introduction and that you're not going to be wasting their time by giving them like paragraphs and paragraphs of all about you, you, you. But really it's got to be about how you can help them. 

13:15 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yes, and one of the things that I can tell you I live my whole life this way that books jobs is your energy and your tone and just like, ironically, how, as an actor, you would read and think about what's my tone for this commercial, this e-learning copy? What's my tone when I reach out to someone, when I talk to someone, and you get hired for your energy and you get fired for your energy or lack thereof. 

13:45 And you have to rely sometimes on your personality and say you know that books a lot of jobs if you're likable. 

13:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Can I be completely honest and say that your personality, when it comes out in your read right, that's what makes you unique, that's your point of view right, and that's what connects us as humans to each other. And so people always say well, how do I sound, how does my voice sound? Am I cut out for this industry? I'm like no, it's not really about that. It's about being able to bring yourself to the party, and how many times have we heard that said over and over? 

14:19 again and I just want to say it differently, so that maybe people like, all of a sudden, I want that light bulb to go off because honestly, it's that innate, like non-touchable thing that when we meet somebody and we say, god, I like her, like when I met you, I was like man, I like that girl, I felt the same way about you going? 

14:37 on and thus began this relationship, and so I can tell people when I do consults all the time I've got a few coming up after this but they'll say do I sound like I can make it in this industry? I'm like, but in reality it's all about bringing yourself to that read, that special uniqueness that is you, and if you can develop the skills to allow yourself and the permission to allow yourself to do that, that's what's going to connect with the listener at the other end and that's what's going to make you successful, right? Is that connection with? 

15:05 the listener and, of course, all the other stuff should just come by the wayside, right? It's kind of like we're storytellers. Well, how do I tell that story when the script is written in this way? Well, you have to create that story right, Create those opportunities right. And how are you going to lock in those opportunities? By being your human, wonderful, beautiful, awesome self and just connecting. 

15:27 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) So wait a second, annie. Are you hitting on something deeper now? Are you really talking, maybe, about the fact that there is a true and honest lack of self-confidence, which may even be deeper than that, a lack of self-esteem and a lack of self-value, because it really does challenge us to say if we're reaching out to someone, there's a reason and we have to share who we are and what we do with that person. 

15:54 If you don't know who you are and what you do, then there's a real lack on your end that you have to go and dive deep. You have to go coach, get therapy, go meditate, whatever you need to do to find that the end user, that audience, they do whatever you need to do to find that the end user, that audience, they do not care, they're not there for that. They're not there to build you up, they're not there to give you confidence, they're not there. 

16:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They're there for you to help them and they're not there seeking you out necessarily, right? So, again, the work that needs to be done for success in this industry, especially today, you have to work your butt off. I'm just saying, even for us, that we've been in this business for how many years, we know how hard we have to work, and now we're working even harder, right? 

16:36 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) But, annie why is that a bad thing? Why is that being given a bad name? Why is that something that is sort of shoved under the rug, like, oh, we don't want to do that. We want to work less hours in the week, we want to take more vacations, and I'm thinking, well, it's all well and good, but don't you want to build a business? Sure, and to build a business from the ground up and sustain it, especially during hard times, economic times, whatever. During war, you got to work really hard. That's the old school work ethic you and I have. 

17:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, yes, and I'm going to say that, okay, do you have to work that hard 24-7? Well, I mean, I do just because it's an ethic, but honestly, like and we're totally obsessed. 

17:17 Yeah but besides that, but in reality look, you can be super talented, you can get a great campaign right, but every person that I know that has really made it in this industry that has been uber successful. You can never count on that client being there tomorrow. And so, even though you might have a great gig and a great contract and it's been ongoing and you're making good money, I don't think any of these professionals out here have ever stopped looking or cultivating or continually growing. That's what makes them successful. So you can't just necessarily just say, well, I've got my client, I did great this year and so therefore I can kind of rest a little bit and maybe not have to work so hard. I mean, once in a while, of course, you need to take your time off, but in reality you're constantly looking for that next client, constantly, and that doesn't just happen in an hour a day. 

18:12 Now, for those people that are working right now and you know again, I always tell people don't give up your day job. Yet, you know, until you find out that this is something you're truly passionate about and that you truly want to pursue, because the time required to generate those leads, the time required to audition, the time required to do all the things that is necessary to build and grow your business, not just exist and have a business. Okay, I set up my business. I have my demos, here I am. That's not enough. That is this tiny little tip of the iceberg, do you know what? 

18:43 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) that reminds me of, annie, when we had brick and mortars pre-COVID and we did most of our work pre-COVID in brick and mortar, that was like, okay, I set up my shop, I set up my physical location, I had my coffee maker there, we had our computers there, we had okay, we paid the heat, we had toilet paper. It sounds ridiculous, but you have to think of all of that. Yeah, yeah, you have a brick and mortar, all right. How come I'm not successful? Yeah, mm-hmm. Oh, because I haven't started the work. Yeah, I haven't started. The work was just preliminary. Yeah, the, the house, there's a ton preliminary. But to actually build a house, that's a whole other set of things, right? So if you're doing your due diligence by training and getting your demos and setting up your booth, you get big applause from me, you get big kudos from me because you beat out half the competition already. Yeah, absolutely. But don't think that that's the work. That's not the work of owning a business, that's just the brick and mortar, if you will. 

19:40 Yeah, absolutely the setup of the business, and the setup is always changing and upgrading too. Yeah, now you've got to work the business. 

19:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now you've got to work it. You've got the business. 

19:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now you've got to work the business. 

19:52 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) And you and I are workers Like we're worker bees, we like working, we like the validation I mean. Look, my mother in real life is 85 years old. 

20:01 - Intro (Announcement) Guys, don't tell her that I told you that she's amazing. 

20:06 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) She's a licensed family therapist and she works still full-time, 85 years old. She says I will never not work. It's my identity. I want to be helping people, I want to be giving to the world, I want to be making money, I want to be this and that there's this sense of like kicking back and going what's coming to me? I'm 85, now what's coming? No, no. Taking on new clients and seeing how she can help them solve their problems, which are more complicated these days by the way, right, that was a key thing that you said was that she wants to help people. 

20:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So it's not that she doesn't deserve a rest or she doesn't deserve to kick back at this point in her life, but it brings her joy. She doesn't want to. Yeah, exactly, and a lot of people feel that way. 

20:51 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, a lot of people want to be in the world. They want to be a part of the world that spoke in the wheel, so to speak, but be a part of a large community, which we are, a very large global community but really be doing our own unique part of that, our own unique feel to that. And you and I I mean I take on pro bono projects, I take on projects that I'm giving back. Why? Because I want to. It fills my soul, it fills my spirit. I love working with maybe younger people coming up in the industry or people who don't have a budget that really need help. I like that. Listen, if huge civil rights attorneys can do that, I can do that too. Yeah, absolutely. 

21:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right. 

21:34 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I'm not saying to work for free. I'm just saying the point is what's your process? Why are you doing it? You know, take a step back and say if I want to have it easy and I don't want to work too hard, then ask yourself a more important question why am I doing this? 

21:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Then get a job and work for someone else. 

21:52 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, get a paycheck every week, right. 

21:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Don't expect to come into voiceover land and have that same kind of mindset where that's going to work. 

22:02 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, go be a middle manager at Chipotle and you're all set, you got the good food, you got the salary, you got the benefits. It's a whole different mindset about things, very much so you know I mean my dad, who is an entrepreneur. He always said to me you know, there are two people in the world, one is the employee and the employee mindset, and one is the employer. 

22:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, and they're two different mindsets. Absolutely, absolutely. We are an employer mindset. Yes, we have to be an employer mindset. So, look, this doesn't mean right for the bosses out there. Well, how much time right? Well, I mean, for us I work a 16-hour day, but am I in the booth for 16 hours? No, I am not. 

22:44 I am marketing, I am creating content for marketing, I am reaching out to clients and, of course, I'm doing stuff in my studio as well. I'm auditioning. I'm auditioning for my agents, I'm auditioning for rosters. I mean hours, and so I know how hard it is and I will speak to working a full-time job and then just seeing if voiceover is. For me, that's the hard part about doing it part-time. I almost thought that doing voiceover part-time was harder than doing it full-time. I mean, the risk is greater when you quit your job and go full-time into voiceover, especially financially, if you don't have that cushion and I don't recommend that you do that if you don't have a financial cushion, do not quit your day job, but if you're working full-time and you're doing voiceover, you've got to work so hard. 

23:28 Oh my gosh, so hard You've got your nine to five or whatever that might be during the day, and then every spare moment of the day has to be working on voiceover. And that's the hardest, especially when you're starting because you're practicing, you're getting better at acting. Hopefully you're coaching with somebody, you're working towards a demo or you've gotten a demo. So now, if you've gotten your demos, then when you get home from your day job, you've got to be marketing right and you've got to find your leads. You've got to create content. You've got to create content. You've got so many things to do in those hours and you've got a family to take care of, so it is excruciatingly tiring when you are doing this with a full-time job. I get that, guys. But again, if this is something that you want to pursue and this is the life that you are looking for, that's just what you've got to do to make it work. I mean to be quite honest. I mean otherwise. 

24:19 I have so many people that kind of half-heartedly put their time in Well, they'll do the coaching, they'll get the demo and they're working full time. But then they're like well, but I haven't gotten a job yet and I'm out of pay to play. I haven't gotten a job yet. Well, you've got to audition your tush off. You've got to market your tush off at this point, and that means hours a day. That doesn't necessarily mean like five minutes a day, but if you can do something every day, I would say do something voiceover related every single day. That, to me, is something that says you are dedicated to making this work, to making this be successful. And it's tougher than ever these days. You know you're fighting a lot of people in the industry. 

25:00 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) You're fighting. And I would say too, as you said earlier, annie, do the homework, do the research, don't come in cold. Talk to people, see what they do in the career. We used to call those internships or apprenticeships. Well, you kind of have to do your own. 

25:14 You don't want to try to make a living on a scaffold 50 flights up. If you're scared of heights, yeah Right. You have to know what the occupational hazards are. You have to understand what the hours put in, what the dangers are, what financial issues you could run into. You really have to be smart up front. Rather than saying, well, why aren't I making money? That to me is a very sort of novice-y green question. To ask if you've done some of the homework and talk to working professionals who have been very successful. They will all tell you. Even the most successful people who are making livings doing animation or they're a series regular on a TV show. They'll say, listen, I know when I book something I better save that money, I better invest that money, I better do whatever, because I may not work for a year. 

26:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I may not get another decent booking for a year, and I have to know that I have to like plan for that. 

26:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, bosses, go out there and get the work. Go out there and do it, spend the time, put in the hours, and I think you're going to see results. I mean, it's as simple as that Put in the work, you're going to see results. It's probably a lot more than you think, yep. The more you put in, the more you'll get out. Absolutely there, it is All right. There, it is Great. Big shout out. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys, bosses, have an amazing week and go out there and get it. Go out there and get it. We love you. All right, bye, bye. 

26:46 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

27:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Five, six, 7, 8. I'm trying to go faster. I'm trying to go 5, 6, 7, 8. I know I think it's waiting for me. That's probably what it is. I am waiting for you. There's a delay, guys. There's a delay, alright, wait. 

How do you determine your worth as a voice actor, especially when you're just starting out? Join Anne and Tom as we unravel the complexities of setting rates in the voiceover industry. We challenge the misconception that newbies should work for less and emphasize the need for a solid base studio session fee. From understanding SAG-AFTRA and Global Voice Acting Academy (GVAA) rate guides to navigating the nuances of broadcast and non-broadcast work, we provide practical insights that empower you to establish your value right from the get-go. Efficiency and quality are your best allies in commanding higher rates and securing repeat clients. Learn the essential strategies for managing your career, from cultivating new leads and staying updated on market trends to understanding client churn. We'll share actionable advice on how to keep your pipeline full and stay ahead of the curve in this ever-evolving industry.

00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey boss listeners. Are you ready to turn your voiceover career goals into achievements? With my personalized coaching and demo production, I'm here to help you reach new milestones. You know you're already part of a boss community that strives for the very best. Let's elevate that. Your success is my next project. Find out more at anneganguzzacom. 

00:26 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next project. Find out more at anganguzacom. It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. The boss, a VO boss. 

00:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Hey, hey, everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza, and I am here on the Real Boss series with my co-host, Tom Dheere. Hey, Tom Dheere, how are you? 

00:57 - Tom Dheere (Host) Hello Anne, how are you doing? 

00:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Real boss. Yeah, hey, Tom, as a real boss. How's your year going? By the way, it's gone by so fast already. 

01:06 - Tom Dheere (Host) First quarter gone. 

01:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, first quarter and tax season is already coming. 

01:10 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, I mean, we filed, I filed and I got paid already. So yeah, oh, very, very nice. 

01:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, speaking of numbers, you're a numbers guy, so how's your year going? 

01:20 - Tom Dheere (Host) It's funny because I just did my first quarter analytics financially and I think I'm like literally like $300 ahead of first quarter 2023. 

01:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Congrats. 

01:33 - Tom Dheere (Host) Can't complain about that. 

01:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Being ahead is always a plus, always a plus and myself as well, and I'm ecstatic that I got paid already from the government, so that's good. I'm going to reinvest that in my business. But I love talking real numbers, like real money. So I thought it would be good to talk about real money, because so many times I have students who just get into this industry and they get that first job where somebody's interested in their voice and then they panic and they say, oh my God, they've come back to me and they want to know what I'll charge for this job and I thought we should actually. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about those numbers. How do people come up with those numbers? 

02:13 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. It's funny because, like we could just say, well, just go look at the SAG-AFTRA contract if you're union, or go look at the Global Voice Acting website if you're non-union, and this will be the world's shortest podcast episode. 

02:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's it. Gvaa rate guide and SegAftra Boom and you're done. 

02:28 - Tom Dheere (Host) But, as you well know, it's a lot more complicated than that. But I want to do a little bit of myth busting real quick. A lot of voice actors coming into the industry think hierarchical. They think vertical, as in. Since they're just entering the voiceover industry, they should get paid the lowest and the people who have been in here the longest should get paid the highest. And that is not necessarily true. I mean, if there's one thing I've learned in the 25 plus years I've been doing this is that the last gig I got isn't always the worst paying gig I've got, and then the next gig I've got isn't always the best paying gig that I've got. 

03:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It fluctuates, it just does right. I mean, before the rate guides. Well, I think there was always SAG-AFTRA, but SAG-AFTRA mostly concentrated on things that were national and broadcast right, and so national, regional, local, anything that was broadcast. So what was a girl to do back in the early years when I was there trying to figure out what do I charge? And literally it set myself into a panic and I always, tom, had to pretty much just kind of wing it and guess what? I think that that's even still true today. 

03:44 - Tom Dheere (Host) I mean, now we have guides that we can look at as benchmarks, but in reality every job is absolutely different, especially when you're talking non-broadcast rates, so broadcast rates, radio, tv, cable, internet, streaming right, all the front-facing stuff, where there's going to be a session fee, which is how much you get paid to record the voiceover audio files, and then the usage fee, which is how much you get paid for giving license, because you're literally licensing your voice to the voice seekers for them to use your audio files in a certain period of time and in a certain area. 

04:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. 

04:31 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. So that's broadcast in the broadest sense, for lack of a better term, and just by giving your listeners that basic explanation. That's what sets up this avalanche of other questions. It's like how big of a market, how many listeners, how long are you getting paid for? It's, in simplest terms, the more listeners or viewers, the more you get paid, and the longer that they're going to air this spot, on whatever medium they decide, the more you get paid. So the question is where do you start with that? So actually, that leads me to a question. Anne, do you have like a turning? 

05:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) on the lights fee. Do you have a base studio session fee? Yes, I absolutely do. For me to step into the studio, I have a certain fee and a lot of my work is non-broadcast. So if I am doing any work that's broadcast. Typically that's either handled by my agent, right? Who's negotiating that for me? Which is why it's awesome to have agents, because they handle that and they're always fighting for the most part, if you've got a good agent for your best interests. 

05:35 If it's not an agent fighting for the rates, then I have to go to a rate guide to start somewhere and figure out what that is. But for non-broadcast, absolutely. I have a rate for stepping into my studio and that is my studio session fee, which. 

05:51 I try to equate everything non-broadcast to the same equivalent on the broadcast side, because these days, with synthetic voices right, I want to make sure that nobody's going to be using my voice for a purpose that it wasn't intended for, and so I will actually put and I'm probably getting ahead of myself on my non-broadcast, I will put an actual length of time, whereas previously this was not something we talked about in perpetuity in another episode. But I want to absolutely address that. For non-broadcast, typically it was you gave somebody a rate for usage of that file and it was forever. And now, with synthetic voices and the fear of getting our voices stolen or used for purposes other than intended, I now put in for non-broadcast. I put in a length of time that they can use that for as a safeguard. 

06:42 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right and for certain things I mean there's explainers and corporate and e-learning and stuff like that. 

06:47 Most of that stuff isn't evergreen anyway, because, like an explainer video, for example, the company's branding may change, the name of the company may change, the product, the service, the widget may change, so they're going to need a new explainer video. 

07:03 If they have just like one explainer video which is parked on their website and their social media channels just saying we are this company, this is what we do, in two, three years, maybe five at most, they're going to need a new video and they may go to you and they may go to somebody else. But when you see non-broadcast in perpetuity, you want to be smart about it. You want to give it some form of shelf life, and that's a big part of this conversation, anne is how do you communicate this? How do you educate your clients? By explaining, like look, in a few years you're going to need a new one of these anyway, because I've noticed that for like non-broadcast, most of them want it in perpetuity, not because they want to synthesize your voice or because they want to hose you financially, it's just because they just don't want to be bothered. They just want to do this and it's done, and it's there and now they can go focus on other things. 

07:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, they say that it's theirs. 

07:49 - Tom Dheere (Host) And they say it's theirs. For non-broadcast genres there's a whole bunch of different ways to charge. Sometimes you charge by the finished minute. If it's an audio book, you charge by the finished hour. If it's long form e-learning modules, you could get paid by the word. 

08:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, I mean, those are the big ones there used to be per page but I don't remember the last time I got paid per page and you know what. I'll be completely honest, tom, I don't remember the last time I quoted an e-learning module on a per word basis, because most of the companies or most of the people that I'm working with I'm not on a roster that is paying on a per word basis or working with an instructional e-learning company, that usually is on a per word basis. 

08:31 Whenever I get e-learning clients, I always price them on a per hour, per finished hour basis and I get paid the same for e-learning as I do for corporate pretty much. 

08:41 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, I mean they're both informational, non-broadcast, so in the broadest brushstrokes they're pretty much the same genre-wise, with the exception that e-learning is usually used to train students and new employees and corporate is for internal communications, like an HR video or a memo, or here's how you pick your employee benefits, and stuff like that. 

09:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Or even a corporate narration video. That's what I meant. Corporate training and e-learning to me is the same. Do you know what I mean? Corporate training and academic e-learning rates are the same to me, except most educational institutions can't afford what a company can Right. 

09:15 It's harder for them to get the money, but I think one thing that I want to emphatically tell the bosses out there that are just beginning for non-broadcast is that really every job is unique and we don't always have a rate guide to go to, and it's up to you as a business person to understand what would be an acceptable market rate for that and price it accordingly to that and also know your worth because, again, like you had mentioned before, you think that just because you're newer, you should charge less, and that is probably not the. That is not the way I would be thinking about it at all as a new person into the industry. Because you're being paid for your voice right, you're being paid for your voice. You can get just as much as I can or Tom can for that voice. It is your business. 

10:11 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. Here's the thing about that is that a lot of my students immediately devalue themselves. Yeah, and you shouldn't do that to yourself, because, think about it on the other side of the equation is that if you're a voice seeker, do you care how long the voice actors have been doing voiceover Really? I mean in the abstract. Well, of course we would like an experienced narrator, but when it comes down to the audition, within two, three seconds, either they like you or you don't. It doesn't matter how long you've been doing voiceover. 

10:43 Now there is obviously a correlation between the ability to tell a story effectively and how long you've been doing this. But ultimately, if you've got quality training from Anne and a quality demo and that demo is submitted and you've been trained by Anne to audition effectively for projects, I'd say 90, 95% of the time, it's a level playing field. Regardless of how long you've been trained by Anne to audition effectively for projects, I'd say 90, 95% of the time, it's a level playing field regardless of how long you've been in the industry, and I agree with you there, completely agree with you. 

11:10 So you take that data point and then you extrapolate that. Well, if that's the case, then that means everybody should get paid the same who's auditioning for that, because if one of my students auditions for an e-learning project and I audition for an e-learning project, if I book it, I shouldn't necessarily get paid more than they should. 

11:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I agree with that, completely agree with that. Again, they're paying for the voice. They're not necessarily paying for the experience. However, in dealing with the client, your level of experience might have a part in it because after you get the job, in order to maybe keep the job or have the person keep coming back, that's where your experience and customer service comes into play and that's where I feel that you can command. And again, you can command just as much if you can give them a good experience. 

12:00 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. This is what I tell my students is that your talent will book you the first gig with a client. Your project management skills will book you the next gig with the same client, because if me and a student are auditioning for the same gig and they book it. Great, they should get the same that I get, but then they better deliver the goods, communicate the retake policy, understand how to use their DAW, understand how to edit and deliver the audio files, being able to take direction if it's a live setting those are skills that. 

12:31 Yes, there is a correlation between your experience level and the ability to execute good project management, but if you work with Anne or if you work with myself, part of our jobs is to teach you that and how to be able to be professional and communicate effectively and do all those things, because it's not just getting the first gig, it's getting the next gig and the next gig and the next gig without auditioning. 

12:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly. And it's funny because it reminds me of a conversation I had in my Voices in Podcasting Clubhouse the other day with Jodi Krangel and Cheryl Holling, where we got into this discussion about acting right, because a lot of coaches these days will say it's more important now more than ever to have your acting skills so that you can separate yourself from the synthetic voices. And Jodi said you know, I don't know if I'm completely convinced about that, because in reality it also has to do with your customer service. And I'm like, yeah, well, you've got to get the gig first right, which is your auditioning talents and your performance talents and your acting talents are going to get you the gig. 

13:34 Then what's going to help you keep it is going to be that customer service that business aspect that you just mentioned, in order to keep them coming back and then commanding that good rate, moving forward. 

13:48 - Tom Dheere (Host) And that's when it comes into so for the audition, to book the audition it's about your talent and your storytelling ability. After that, it's about your ability to manage the project effectively. Because, also, if you can demonstrate that you can deliver the goods and do it quickly and do it right, then, yeah, you're in a better position to command higher rates and slash. Or you're in a position to just get more bookings without having to audition for this end client that you got that initial gig with and other end clients at this production company or recording studio or ad agency or marketing firm or political production company or explainer production company has they're like yeah, you work with Ann. Ann delivered the goods on this series of explainer videos. She can do that for you and your series of explainer videos too. So it's not just about getting as much as you can for the project in question, it's about delivering the goods so you can get paid over and over and, over and over again. 

14:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And aren't those the best jobs? 

14:46 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, we all want regular clients, like everybody, everybody, in every part of the country. 

14:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You don't have to audition for them, that just takes out a complete amount of steps. And it's funny because I think for me and for my business right. I'm always telling people you always have to cultivate new leads, because if you've been in the business for a long time, undoubtedly you'll probably have repeat clients. Right, tom? You must have lots and lots and lots of repeat clients Many, many, many, many, many repeat clients and me too, and I'm grateful for them. 

15:10 but I always have to be cultivating the new clients as well, and that means I have to really continually assess and understand rates and what I should charge and understand my worth in the current market, in the current market. 

15:24 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yes, my friend Adam Werner, audiobook narrator, fellow FAFCon attendee. He taught me about client churn, which is every quarter. I look at all of the voiceover gigs that I booked and all the clients that I worked with and the genres that I booked and how I got the gig whether it was through my representation, whether it was through an online casting site and whether it was through my self-marketing strategies and I look to see how many new clients did I gain and I keep a very close eye on how many new clients I'm getting, because if I'm getting a regular stream of new clients, that means my marketing strategies are working well, yes, yes and your marketing strategies. 

16:03 Is your self-marketing strategy? Cold calls, cold emails, indirect marketing, social media, blogging, whatever. But also, am I just auditioning better through my representation? Am I auditioning better through my online casting sites? Because clients are just going to naturally go away, they're going to retire, they're going to go out of business, they're going to change their business model. 

16:23 They're going to hire their nephew who wants to do musical theater, to do their phone greets. And now you're out. Ai is going to replace and already has replaced some of us voice actors. For certain clients, that's just going to naturally happen. So you always want to keep the till full. 

16:39 Yep, yep, absolutely absolutely want to keep the till full, yep, yep, absolutely, absolutely, and making sure that you understand what you're worth in today's current landscape on a per word, per finished minute, per finished hour, per studio hour. You always want to keep an eye on that, yeah. So how do you keep an eye on that, anne? How do you keep an eye on current rates? What are your go-tos? What are your habits? 

16:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, my current rates. I actually make sure that I check the rate guides frequently because they're continually being updated by people more than me out in the industry. Back in the day I was a core contributor to the GVAA rate guide and I think you were too Tom like e-learning and corporate and telephony and medical and those were the rates that I helped with on that rate guide. I make sure that I'm continually assessing those rate guides, but I'm also assessing the market. I mean, I work in the market and so I do a lot of research on the client and I try to understand, like, where else could they be going for potential business or another voice, and how can I remain competitive with that voice? And so how do I keep myself current? It's continual research, really, and assessment with the rate guide and some of it, honestly, is just pulling it out of the air. That is really what happens Sometimes. It's nowhere to be found and you just have to use your best judgment. Always use your negotiation 101 tactics on asking what is the budget? 

18:06 That's like the most important first question I think you can ask a client. 

18:10 - Tom Dheere (Host) Do they have a? 

18:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) budget, and if they have a budget, can you work within that? 

18:13 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, my go-to's is just looking at my agent casting notices and looking at my online casting site casting notices yes, yes, yes. 

18:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Market assessment notices. And looking at my online casting site casting notices Market assessment. 

18:23 - Tom Dheere (Host) Market assessment and what Ann does and what I do. You should be doing both of those. You should be doing both of those because when you get a casting notice from your representation, it's been pre-negotiated. They've already gone through the rigmarole of negotiating with that particular client, so what you get is most likely the finished product of what the actual rate is going to be for that project. So that will let you know, because, along with that casting notice, in addition to the rates, is the specs, the session fee, the usage fee, the market, the exclusivity and conflicts and the rate of usage, how long it's going to be used for. So you can use that to greatly inform your broadcast rate sheets. And then for non-broadcast, looking at the online casting sites and just noticing trends in e-learning versus corporate, versus explainer, versus telephony, versus medical versus voice of. 

19:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) God. And in order to do that, in order to do that, do you need to be a member, tom? I know, because some of them will post job rates without you necessarily actually being a paid member if you're a free member, but I believe you've got to be a paid member to get that information these days. 

19:33 - Tom Dheere (Host) For places like Voice 123, I believe you won't have access to the casting notices unless you're on the tier, because the only way you'll get them is if they make it to your inbox, and the only way it makes it to your inbox is having a subscription tier, unless you have a free site, a free membership and some casting notices come in and some say here's the jobs you missed and here's the money. 

19:53 Right, voicescom, I think you can run searches but you can't audition unless you're a paid member. But you know what? There's other places to go. I mean you could look at Backstage and Badalgo and Casting Call Club, even Twitter. Now Casting Call Club and Twitter, there tend to be lower no-pay jobs, which is why a lot of voice actors early in their journey go to Casting Call Club because it gives themselves a great opportunity to kind of develop their audition skills, their rate negotiation skills, build up their portfolio, resume, genre awareness and confidence, all of which are extremely, extremely important things. But if you're able to hit the ground running and you have more resources at your disposal which I've got, a pay-to-play site like a voice123 or voicescom you can get a much better idea of what current trends in the rate structure is for voiceover gigs. 

20:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you know what's so interesting. What I'm hearing from you, interestingly enough, is not just understanding the rate guide and then understanding the principles of negotiation and what you're worth, but also your audition techniques, right. Auditioning techniques, it's a first impression, right. And so if you're looking to command a particular rate for a job, even if you don't get a job that you've auditioned for right, you're submitting auditions into your agent and you're just, you're nailing time after time after time, or you're nailing the auditions in the pay to play, right, you're getting consistent in people's minds and that is building your value. 

21:16 And it's interesting because when people come to me and they say I want to get a corporate demo or I to get a medical demo or I want an e-learning demo, I've, over the years, evolved into the type of coach that is really coaching how to do the audition to get the gig first, because, honestly, we all can do that. Read, that's a really pleasant, nice read. You know that's reading the words, but it takes acting skills to really tell the story. And so I really work on building up students' storytelling skills and acting skills and that, I feel, is going to command you the higher rate. 

21:51 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yes, I've got some numbers for you. 

21:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know you love your numbers, I do, I do, I do. Tell me Okay. 

21:56 - Tom Dheere (Host) In 2019, I auditioned roughly 400 times. Okay 1% of my voiceover revenue came from representation. 18% came from casting sites. I wasn't on any paid casting sites back then. Fast forward to all of 2019, 5 years later, 2023, I did 1,854 auditions. My online casting site revenue percentage grew from 18% to 50%. 

22:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow, that's incredible. 

22:26 - Tom Dheere (Host) My representation revenue percentage went from 1% to 12%. Wow, that's incredible, and my overall revenue increased by 20%. 

22:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And now, what would you say that was due to then? 

22:39 - Tom Dheere (Host) Auditioning Auditioning right and auditioning skills. 

22:43 Getting my reps in on specifically Voice123. And you can hear, if you haven't watched our casting site VO Boss Video, go check that out. You'll hear me talk about Voice123 in severe detail, about my voiceover journey, the fact that I was auditioning so much on pay-to-play sites I was just getting better at auditioning. I was auditioning so much on pay-to-play sites I was just getting better at auditioning, which meant when I was getting those agent and manager-driven auditions, I was just getting better at auditioning there too and as a result, I booked more gigs and I booked better gigs. 

23:12 So, if nothing else, don't put all of these things into separate buckets or silos, pass judgment on them and ignore them, or covet one and ignore the other. It's through data and money I've shown that the online casting site portal and the representation portal are clearly linked. There was clearly a synergistic relationship between the quality and quantity of my auditions on Voice123 and the quality and quantity of my audition efforts through my agents and managers. I love that you're backing it up with the numbers and quantity of my auditions on voice one, two, three and the quality and quantity of my audition efforts through my agents and managers. 

23:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you're backing it up with the numbers, because I mean, it's so easy right To point the finger and say, oh well, pay to play suck, or there's too many people on the pay to plays, or the pay to plays are bottom feeders. And so, therefore, I didn't get to the audition on time, which you know that plays a certain part in it. 

24:03 But also it could be like my agent keeps sending me the same auditions to everyone. So it's easy to point the finger and lay blame. But I'll tell you what a lot of times, if you can increase your audition skills, you can increase your net worth, you can increase the rate that you can ask for. It's kind of like this what came first, the chicken or the egg, the audition or the value right that you can charge your potential client? I mean, honestly, it just goes hand in hand. If you are a better actor, if you are a better auditioner and that's going to require an investment, typically in working hard with maybe a performance coach that can give you good feedback. Because if you're like I don't know what's happening, the pay-to-plays suck these days. I'm not getting any work or my agent is not getting me work, and I hate it when people blame their agents for not getting them work. 

24:50 It really is up to you to put in that investment into your business so that you can audition better and then command those better rates. 

24:58 - Tom Dheere (Host) Absolutely so. Creating a rate sheet from scratch or using the SAG-AFTRA guidelines or using the Global Voice Acting Academy rate guides is an important thing to understand what is a voice actor's worth in relation to the genres and the broadcast versus non-broadcast market. But I'll be honest. I mean, yes, I have had rate sheets that I built from scratch and talked to other voice actors over the past 15, 20 years, but these days I don't really look at it anymore. I just kind of just know, through repetition, what I'm worth, what the genre is worth, what the gig is worth based on the broadcast or non-broadcast usage. Is it going to just be in a museum exhibition or is it going to be on a corporate website that has 10,000 employees? 

25:40 After a while you just kind of get the hang of it, but that does not help our bosses who are early in their voiceover journey. So bookmark that SAG-AFTRA rates, Bookmark that GVAA. Have your own little Google Doc. Keep track of the agent auditions that you get if you have representation. Keep track of the online casting site audition rates. Just start to note them. Just make a little simple spreadsheet Genre rate terms. 

26:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I did that right in the beginning of my career. It was like audition. Where did the audition come from? Did I book the gig? What was the price? Literally? That can really help establish for you rates to charge and just make sure that you're keeping up with those rates and really doing some market research. If you're new to the industry, those rate guides use them as a guide only. That doesn't mean that they're the be-all, end-all of what you as a business owner should charge. But I would say, rather than going to the lower number because you want the client right, make sure that that number is well within what you are worth. And just because you started just recently doesn't mean that you can't command the same rate that Tom and I can. 

26:47 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, and here's the thing about that is that the lowest bid doesn't always book the gig. It does not always. It does not always win. 

26:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I get nervous when I buy things that are too cheap. Then I'm like oh, I don't know about the quality of this Right, because you know there's going to be. 

27:01 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, there may be a lack of quality. I mean, think of it this way Like my wife and I were just in the big Macy's flagship store a couple weeks ago to see the Macy's flower show, and we walked through the departments and you see, like on the top floor of Macy's is the luggage and you luggage and you've got five different suitcase sets. The first few are worth $100 and then the last one is worth $400. What are the ones people are going to look at first? They're going to be like why is this one $400? What is it that gives it more value than the other ones? 

27:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I'll tell you something too Sometimes I can't believe I'm going to admit this like on the air top as a female when I go shopping clothes shopping right and they have huge, huge sales. When there's like bins of clothing that are slashed 70%, sometimes that's almost too overwhelming and exhausting. And now that the prices have been slashed so much, I'm like I don't know people have been handling these clothes. I don't know. Are they not in fashion anymore? I question everything right. 

27:58 Oh my gosh, they're so low, yeah, why are there so many of those in the bin of the same like style? Is that because it's not in style? And then I question all the other aspects of it. The quality, is it in style? And so, literally I will. To save my brain the overwhelm of low prices, I will go to the stuff that is priced higher and it's usually presented much nicer right and it's less overwhelming. Think about your voiceover right. Think about your voice and presenting it in a way that you are worthy, right. You are worthy of commanding that price. You are worthy of the elegant luxury brand of that voice, right and people paying that money. There is such an attraction to that for a lot of buyers it's like a psychological aspect. 

28:45 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, look, look, vo bosses. If you have gotten your training, if you have gotten your demos, if you've built your website, if you have your home recording studio set up and you have a rate sheet built, you're worth it. Yeah, absolutely, you are worth it. You are worth it and you have a rate sheet built, you're worth it. Yeah, absolutely, you are worth it. You are worth it and you are worthy, yes, absolutely Good stuff. 

29:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We could go on and on and on about this, but I find, tom, when I talk to you, like our podcasts run a little bit long because we have so much to talk about. You're so easy to talk to. 

29:14 - Tom Dheere (Host) Aw, you too. 

29:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thank you, Tom, for the wonderful, wonderful, sensible business head that you have. I absolutely love, love, love our sessions together and, bosses, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl, that allows me to connect with Tom and talk numbers, because I love to do that, and all sorts of other wonderful business things that we should know as voice actors. You can find out more at IPDTLcom, tom. Thanks again so much. I just love our sessions together and I can't wait till our next one. 

29:45 - Tom Dheere (Host) It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me back. 

29:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Bosses, have a great week. We'll see you next week. Bye. 

29:52 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at V? O bosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business Like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

Get ready for an epic conversation with the one and only Jon Bailey, the voice behind Honest Trailers and one of the voices of Optimus Prime. Jon shares his unique journey into voice acting, from his unexpected start and overcoming the early hurdles of being labeled "just a YouTube voice" to establishing himself as a renowned actor in the industry. We discuss the importance of performance background and how platforms like YouTube have become integral to shaping modern voice-acting careers. Authenticity and resilience are the cornerstones of lasting success in the entertainment industry. This episode illuminates how maintaining a genuine persona can inspire others, with practical advice on consistency, branding, and leveraging mentorship. 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, bosses want to be that well-rounded talent that's always in demand. I offer coaching in a variety of genres, including commercials that grab attention, medical narrations that educate, corporate scripts that inspire and e-learning modules that engage. Find out more at anganguzacom. 

00:24 - Intro (Host) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, anne Ganguza. 

00:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so excited to have a very special guest in the studio with me today Epic voice guy of the four-time Emmy-nominated Honest Trailers, the sixth voice of Optimus Prime and over 20 other Transformer characters and voices for Marvel, disney and many, many more and the credit list just goes on and on, but this is a finite amount of time that I have with you, so I am going to let you talk. Welcome, Jon Bailey. 

01:17 - Jon Bailey (Host) Thank you. It's good to see you again after 100 years. I said 500. 

01:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, yes, we go way back. At least we were just discussing it like 16 years it is. I said 500. So, yes, we go way back. At least we were just discussing it like 16 years, gosh, when you first got into voiceover and I have watched you over the years become this incredible success. Bosses I mean, this is the VO Boss podcast. We are talking very boss-like. We are talking very boss-like strategies and hard work. Jon, I am so, so happy for all of your successes and so proud of you, my gosh, because I know in the beginning it was a struggle for you. So maybe for the bosses I don't know anybody that probably doesn't know who you are, but in case they don't, tell us a little bit about how you got into the world of voice acting, it's good to be back. 

02:06 - Jon Bailey (Host) Thank you for having me back on. It's been a hot second. Yeah, it was all kind of accidental. I had background in performance from school, all the way from, I would say, kindergarten, through college and public speaking and improv and things like that. 

02:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) In fact, I think that's how we met is through Rebecca's love. That, oh, yes, that's right. Oh my gosh, I feel like that had something to do with it. 

02:27 - Jon Bailey (Host) It's been so long ago I don't 100% remember, but I feel like that may have been how we connected. So that was back in my R&D days, which was two years before I even did anything professionally and, like you had said, before, we started the show. Seriously, I would go in, for my first manager kind of found me on the Internet by accident because I'd started YouTube out of boredom. 

02:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) really, Little did you know? 

02:49 - Jon Bailey (Host) Yeah well, the main reason why I did it was because I saw other people taking old cartoons and dubbing over them and making funny things out of them. I was like, well, that's what I wanted to do. If they can do it, then why can't I do that? And I had this small following just based off the comedy stuff that I put together involving Transformers and the movie trailer voice, the inner world guy and my first manager, family from that video. And then I ran into the problem with him, like he pitched me to Sony because I would feel like we've heard your voice before and something. I'm like, oh, cool. I was like, well, I did this little tiny thing online and caught on his trailers and they, oh, because you're not a real voice actor, you're a YouTube voice actor. And I was like there's a difference. 

03:30 And it's so funny how much just changed in a decade, because now that's considered a major platform. 

03:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That is what is so impressive, Jon. You just forged through, because I remember that they're like oh yeah, honest Australia's. You're not a real voice. I remember that and I remember your struggles and your frustration with that, and you have like a trillion followers. I mean literally. 

03:50 - Jon Bailey (Host) Not that I'm inflating. 

03:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But you got what? 

03:52 - Jon Bailey (Host) over a million, over a million, yeah, combined across all platforms, which is impressive. For voice actors, yeah, who haven't been the main character in some major popular anime or cartoon or whatever game? I kind of coined the phrase recently where it's like I'm the guy everyone's heard but no one's heard of, right. 

04:10 Because I'm so in everything like my manager, my agents, whoever, or sometimes just directly from the clients. They just throw everything at me and I'm just willing to give everything a shot. I know that can't hurt to try, so as long as it doesn't violate my personal faith. There's some things I'm just like no. And other things I'm like well, I'll check it out, but I can't make any promises and some stuff. I'm just like you know, don't bother me with this stuff because I'm not going to work on it. 

04:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, so you've worked on such a wide range of projects. I mean, what would you say, say I mean outside of? I know in the beginnings were really like getting started and getting your feet wet and getting known. Talk about some of the biggest challenges that you've had as a voice actor, because, gosh, we all run into what we think are challenges. But I feel like just with the amount of exposure and the amount that you've grown over the years, I mean your challenges I feel must equal almost sometimes your follower size. 

05:04 - Jon Bailey (Host) I think my challenge is there's been a lot of them, but I'd say if I had to narrow it down for an interview with you, I would say that you really need to have some organization to your personal life, because if you don't have the availability for this job, you're wasting your time because you really can't do anything else. 

05:24 You have to find a way to work around their schedule instead of your own and be available for them, and that often leads to that thing between voice actors where it's like why did they get the job instead of me? Well, it might've been because they had a home studio and you didn't, and they had immediate availability and you didn't. Or they might've decided to move to a town like Los Angeles rather than the middle of nowhere, because sometimes it doesn't matter how great you are for the job, it really doesn't. For some reason, some people out here are just too scared of change and they would rather have a real human person that can show up at their studio at a specific time and day and record the thing. And unfortunately, you have to sacrifice a lot. I mean, you have to kind of give up your freedom, so to speak, and I'm thankful that technology has changed, where there's mobile options now, where I don't feel like I'm stuck in this particular physical space 24-7. 

06:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I was just going to ask how much do you actually go in studio now? 

06:21 - Jon Bailey (Host) Still probably more than me, I would say it's more than it used to be only because I'm booking more, but I would still say, you know, 90% of the time it's still here. In fact a good percentage is. Just to look at the bookings for this coming week, I have four bookings the first week of June and half of those are in studio and half of those are home studio. So it sometimes varies, but I would say the majority of the time I still feel like the majority of it is here. But certain projects they really want to work with just the studios that they've already recording all their other actors at, because they want the quality to sound the same. It makes sense to me, but at the same time people's home technology has gotten so good they don't really need it anymore. 

06:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) COVID kind of proved that. Yeah, exactly Now. Did you have to do any upgrade? I'm sure you probably had a great studio already, but did you have to do any upgrading to your studio? 

07:08 - Jon Bailey (Host) I mean it's still the same booth. It always was this one I've had, for I would say I've had this one for at least five or six years. Todd Haberkorn's misfortune was my fortune. He got this booth for his place, which is not too far from here, and he moved here from West Hollywood, which it fit perfectly fine in his old place, but it just happened to be a few inches too big for his new place. So he had to sell it for a third of what they normally run and I'm like well, I can make payments. 

07:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And he was cool with that. 

07:36 - Jon Bailey (Host) He just wanted to get rid of it because it takes up so much space and it's so heavy and so bulky and big. It's bigger than I need. It's an 8x4 and I don't recommend anything bigger than 4x4. But the truth is you really don't have to have a booth that looks like yours, no offense, but it looks beautiful on camera. That's great. 

07:52 That's one of the main reasons why I had it, because if I want to make content and look like a pro, it needs to look like a pro. And no matter how great the audio quality is, no matter how many studios or clients that you've worked for, when it looks like the inside of a closet you don't look like a very good pro and I guarantee people out there it sounds better in that ugly closet than it does in that fancy studio of yours. Even the guys from VoiceOver Body Shop they recommend you don't have to have a whisper room, you can just have that freaking closet. But I figure that half my career is content creation. Freaking closet, but I figure that half my career is content creation. Half my career has been voiceover, so it might as well upgrade that because the opportunity presented itself for such a low price. 

08:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and I agree with you that image, I mean, it's how you present yourself really. 

08:36 - Jon Bailey (Host) They don't teach you about how much branding is important. 

08:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Back in our day, when we first started. 

08:40 - Jon Bailey (Host) Branding was not part of the education. It was all about the voiceover, the career. They never really talked about, like your social media presence or having a color scheme. Well, you were developing that. We were still figuring it out. 

08:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We were, and I remember like first time physically meeting you at a VO Peeps meetup. We were talking about how important it is to start branding and things were just getting popular on the internet. They were starting gosh. We're talking back in our day when we walked to school 10 miles. I know it's funny, that was only 10 years ago I know, I know, and it's incredible how it's grown. 

09:12 And you know, you mentioned content creation, which, wow, I mean, like I said, you were ahead of your time back in the day on YouTube, and so I concur, yeah, you were ahead of your time, and I like to think of myself as being a little ahead of my time because I was broadcasting from my living room back when people weren't broadcasting on the Internet. 

09:31 My VOP's made up and, that being said, I feel like we're kind of pioneers together, forging our own little paths in our business, which is why I'm so excited that we're talking today and you mentioned content creation. So let's talk a little bit about content creation and what it takes for you on a day-to-day basis, creating the content that you do, because, gosh, I've been following you for the longest time. And then I have another question that I'm going to talk about in a minute, because you have transformed. Not only have you voiced transformers, but you have transformed yourself. But let's talk a little bit about content creation and how important it is for bosses today and people wanting to build a successful business. What does content creation mean for that business? 

10:11 - Jon Bailey (Host) Well, the one thing I learned and I have always been a trial and error person People always ask me every freaking day. I would have said you need to find reliable, trustworthy coaches that are affordable and just get coaching, instead of trying to do this the cheap, free way and learning it all the hard way through trial and error and just free research on the internet. 

10:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It can be done. 

10:39 - Jon Bailey (Host) I'm proof that it could be done, because I didn't get any coaching until I'd already been at this job for like almost a decade and I just didn't see the point because I'd been. Unfortunately, a few not so great coaches can ruin it for everybody else. I'm like I don't hear anything here that I couldn't find on the internet. 

10:55 I personally have a theory that when we got started, people were gatekeeping the information. I think people were only telling they were so insecure in their own careers they were afraid if they shared this information, this is going to create more competition, which is going to screw me out of work, and I don't think that this is the kind of career where you should have to worry about that because it's so freaking huge. There is enough room for everybody in this job. 

11:19 And if you're great at the job and you do a good job and you take the time to grow your brand and create content, do all the things that you need to do in order to be able to show what you're capable of, you'll be able to get work. There's no doubt in my mind. I've always been kind of ahead of my time, but I've been that guy that like I'll do it and until some huge voice actor does the same exact thing after they've seen me do it, then all of a sudden it becomes popular. I was one of the first voice actors to stream my own video games on Twitch. It didn't really go anywhere and I was like you know what and I told a few other voice actors about it. I said this is a great idea. Now all of them are actually making a separate income from doing the same thing I was doing, but nobody even showed up for me. 

11:57 I was also one of the few people out there like I should create content about what I do, or just do career centered content. That's entertaining slash, maybe a little informational way to show what I do, just to promote myself. Because the thing, like I started off, the thing that I learned by making content, was that your representation. They will never represent you as well as you can represent yourself. And when I found out that my agents only just get the auditions and sometimes they'll have some relationship with clients and they'll pitch you to somebody they're never going to know you until you get out there and show them who you are. So take whatever thing that you do and just formulate your content around what you're best at, whether you're best at creating creatures or you're best at doing impressions. Whatever Impressions won't get you anywhere in professional voice of a career. 

12:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) but they're fantastic for content. 

12:48 - Jon Bailey (Host) That's not the advice I got 12 years ago. I was told you will never get anywhere in this business doing impressions. That's not true, because you can grow a brand and all of a sudden you're so popular Clients can't do anything except they can't ignore you once you have millions of followers and you're like, oh man, we should hire this guy because people will buy our brand or at least consider our product or service or whatever, just because this guy has so many people. 

13:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. I love that. 

13:15 - Jon Bailey (Host) So growing your brand and making content is a way for you to represent yourself and not just sit back and sit on your hands and wait for your agents to do it, because they're not. Your representation's primary job is to make you look good and let people know what you're booking even if they didn't book it for you, and get you auditions and opportunities. They're not out there promoting you specifically, they're not putting out visual audio demos of you doing stuff and working on things, and everything is content Everything. 

13:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now question for you because you create so much content and now that you have so many followers, I would imagine yes, of course. Now you're getting sponsorships. You're getting people who want you to talk about their things, because you do have a big follower base. Do your agents have control over the type of content? How careful do you have to be now creating your content? 

14:00 - Jon Bailey (Host) I think that agents representatives have to be careful depending on their talent. I think if their talent is smart and they're wise, obviously they're going to hit me up and say you can't post that, you need to take that and sometimes I just have to kind of self regulate. 

14:15 I'll give you a perfect example of that. There was a project that was coming out and I thought it would be funny to make a prank video because it's a project that I have been known to work for in the past. So for an April Fool's joke, I created a fake thing for this thing and posted it on the Internet and all of a sudden it reached a point because my content has gotten so big and my career has grown so much that people were using that as a potential news leak of some nondisclosure stuff. I'm like oh crap, I've reached the point where I can't just be regular Joe fan that makes funny stuff for the internet. And then they're like oh, that's so. 

14:54 I had to be way more thoughtful and because of, like I said, I learned everything the hard way because of some NDA scares and because of some reprimands from some agents in the past. Over the last decade and a half I've learned like what is okay and what's not, and I'm just always very careful because it does help. I've been working for Hasbro for eight years. Eight years I've been doing voices for the same company, for the same franchise, and only within the last couple of years? Did they even know I was working for them? 

15:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow. 

15:15 - Jon Bailey (Host) Because when you have a massive corporation they drop down all those little jobs down to other companies that are lower on the pole. So they can just like look, we're just going to license this brand out to you. You tell us what you're going to make, you do the entire production, We'll approve, and then you know it's got our official stamp on it. They have no idea who's working for them. So when I get out there and I start making content, I'm really starting to push something like Transformers, for example, because I remember that. 

15:39 I do remember that, so they'll send me products or they'll send me news, information or images, digital assets whatever to repost because it makes sense for me, and the more that I do that, the more that people are associating me with my favorite brands that I already work for or it's making other companies go wow, he does a really good job for them. As long as there's no conflict between clients, maybe we should get them to check out our stuff or whatever. So, for example, for Transformers specifically, I have probably four different companies that send me stuff that I don't have to pay for, that I can make content with, or I can resell or give away. There's a lot of different ideas that you can do. You just have to think outside the box. 

16:37 It's all about thinking outside the box and doing the best you can to represent yourself in a way where your reps don't have to worry about what you make because they're afraid that you're like oh my gosh, you said you're not a chub on that, I mean, I even had to think about that whenever it came to anything marvel related, because when I started booking sound likes for some of these actors for marvel, I'm like does that mean I can't make comedy, marvel content or whatever, because that might be a spoiler for something that I don't even know about because I'm not working on a project. But I feel like anything I'm doing to help it boils down to this. This is the very, very important part. It boils down to only doing positive things about the clients, brands, products, whatever that you want to work with or that you're a fan of, whatever Because let's just say you like. 

17:18 Snickers. If you like Snickers, you don't want to do negative Snickers things. You want to show yourself eating a Snickers, show yourself talking about Snickers, making funny things based on Snickers, and eventually you get enough followers and enough people are like this is really funny, this is really entertaining. This makes me like Snickers. This makes me want to support you by getting whatever. Eventually, snickers is like hey, you know what, we'll send you some free Snickers, send you money in a brand deal. The important part is to do it positive. Don't do anything negative about a brand that you like. 

17:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I was just going to ask you. There's the other side of the coin, where any publicity is good publicity, so sometimes negative. 

17:52 - Jon Bailey (Host) True, but I feel like you're playing it safe and smart if you just stick to only things that, for example, if something comes out, that's not that great, but it's for a company that I like. That's the truth. But it's also about growing your brand, about being seen by enough people to be considered like, oh, and it's also about showing all the things that you do, whether it's your skill set, whether it's your sense of humor, whether it's just your perfect, whatever it is that you're doing it helps them understand like this person has all these positive traits that we like. We would like to continue to work with them, or we'd like to start working with them. 

18:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I like that. I like that a lot. 

18:34 - Jon Bailey (Host) The whole Mint Mobile ad with Ryan Reynolds. It did not come from my voiceover stuff, it came directly as a result of social media stuff. I was one of the first people out there doing an impression of Ryan Reynolds, because I've seen people out there doing impressions for decades. They started doing it on YouTube when it was first brand new a thing. People were trying to do it as some kind of bit where it's like here's this tiny little cartoon picture in the corner and here's one second of me doing this character. Like I could do 500 cartoon characters in three minutes. And I was like, okay, I see what you're doing, but it's also terrible. It doesn't mean you're a good voice actor, it just means you've made clever content that a lot of people watched. 

19:09 But wouldn't it be better, instead of doing those impressions, to just take your skill set and promote yourself in a different way and do something nobody else is doing? So I started looking. It's like man, my gosh. All these voices are old. These characters are ridiculously ancient. It's always Mickey Mouse and Kermit the Frog and stuff that anybody pretty much could do, because the guys who came up with those characters they didn't want to stray so far from their own voices. They were just doing whatever. So I was like you know what? I should just look at who's popular right now, who's the number one top dogs right now? So I started looking at the A-listers. I'm like nobody's doing Chris Hemsworth Nobody's doing Ryan Reynolds. 

19:43 Nobody's doing. 

19:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All of a sudden. 

19:51 - Jon Bailey (Host) Now everybody's copying that pattern. It's just one of the first out there and because I did such a good job with Ryan Reynolds' voice and I made positive, funny, entertaining content, it eventually got the attention of Maximum Effort who reached out to my agents, said we really like Jon, we have this funny idea. We don't really know what we're going to do yet, but we'd them on commercial. There's a good paycheck for it involved, also good social media. Because he's smart enough to know, because Maximum Effort is very good about this. They think like I do. They're like there's a potential for this stuff. It's all in the internet and how you present this More people to see that than you can by throwing this up on a television commercial. So, yeah, it just kind of became that formulation of is it positive? Does it show off my skill set well, does it make me look like we should work with this guy and want to work with this brand? Would this brand be like? This is a unique or entertainer insert thing here of a way to promote our product. We'd like to work with this guy more or continue to work with him. So, yeah, it's going to be, became the whole mindset and the main goal was always not to make money from. 

20:49 I make hardly any money from social media, just next to nothing, because the primary goal was not to make money. If I wanted to monetize, there's a very particular set of rules that you have to follow in order to make money from social media. My goal was to get more eyeballs on it, get more followers, because at some point you want to be indispensable, you want to be invaluable to people and like well with me. Not only do you get 16 years of professional experience, all these credits, all these working with all these great companies or clients or studios or whatever. You also get somebody with over a million followers on social media who will promote your project and make content about it for no extra money, just because that's what he already does, because that also helps. It's a cycle. It helps me get bigger, which helps me book more jobs which helps me get bigger, which helps me get more jobs. 

21:32 It all works together and it does kind of feel like you're working half your time for free, but that's why you should do things you enjoy. Make your content something that you enjoy, based on things that you like. Just build it around your skillset around your talent. 

21:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure, I love that and I love the whole positive spin that you put on things, as well as authenticity. To take a moment to talk about authenticity you have been very authentic, having known you for so many years now, about things like in your personal life, like your transformation right In your family, and so let's talk a little bit about what authenticity means as well in terms of I feel as though it's not a put on to get more followers. I just really identify with you through your stories. I think you and I have a similar story about, let's say, our body change, our health. We've transformed a little bit in that way, and I've seen a lot of posts from you about that and also stuff about personal struggles that you've had. Let's talk for a moment about the authenticity and how important that is. 

22:30 - Jon Bailey (Host) Well, I think you should keep the majority of your personal life offline. Nobody needs to know all your personal business. But I do feel like, when people have been supporting you for so long, they feel an attachment to your story and to you and they want to root for you. They want to be in your corner, they want to see you succeed. Some of them even live vicariously through you. But a lot of people are just looking for inspiration. They're looking for somebody else to give them justification for whatever it is that they're going to decide to do, and when they see somebody like me give up, it makes them want to give up. When they see somebody like me keeping on and pushing on and just never quitting, it makes them not want to give up. 

23:09 I inspire other people and, as a person of faith, that's kind of half the reason why I do what I do, because I feel like it's better to be genuine and be yourself, because if you have to mask, eventually it'll all fall apart. You won't be able to keep that up for forever because it's not really you. Jim Carrey's talked about this a lot because he used to be that guy. He thought he had to be like this all the time. That was a persona that he created. It was just a different version of himself where he literally was not Jim Carrey, he was whatever character he was portraying. 

23:38 That was Jim Carrey. And when he finally dropped the mask and started being himself, he felt better. And yeah, he's not a super energetic I mean, he's still funny, but he's not that crazy, energetic, over-the-top, ridiculous guy all the time. He's actually just a normal human being who happens to have a very clever mind and sense of humor, et cetera, et cetera. And he talks all the time about how the word depressed has the words deep rest in it and how our brains can't keep up with that fake facade. 

24:05 And I know exactly what he's talking about, because my personal life is not rainbows and skittles all the time. I don't go into great detail about it, but people do know. They know that I'm on the spectrum. They know that my son is very much on the spectrum and he's had a lot of issues. They know that my home life has not always been a hundred percent fun. And they also know that financial struggles and all I go through the same thing everybody else does. 

24:29 There's a really great interview with Larry King, with the actor who played Abed in Community, which is one of my favorite TV shows and I did promos for it, which is how I became a fan and he was being interviewed. 

24:40 Larry King's like give me a luxury that you can't live without. He's like cup of coffee. He's like no, no, no, a luxury. He's like a warm pair of socks. He's like no, a luxury, you know. Like a private place, like I work on duck tails, larry. It's like people don't get that. We're struggling just as much as I don't think, until the strike came forward. This feels like the first time ever that a strike has actually finally got people to realize we don't make a lot of money, we're not sitting around floating in a pool of money and everything is fancy and expensive. 

25:09 I literally live from paycheck to paycheck. I don't know how I get from point A to point B except through faith and hard work. That's all there is to it. And you have to find things that work with your schedule in order to stay in this career, because you can't just go get a grocery store job or whatever and be able to make it. You'll only be able to work when you're free. These clients don't care when you're free, they only care when they're free. So so you have to make yourself available until you get to the point where you've reached the career level, we're like no, no, no, we'll wait for you, we can reschedule for you, don't worry. That didn't used to be the case when you first start off like next, because they have a million other people that can do what you do. No-transcript, how fast they can get it done, reliability, all these different things that are factors they're going to succeed. They see that, they can just tell, and part of it is that I am a really hard freaking worker and I'm very genuine and open about. 

26:09 I'm just always going and doing stuff, but it's gotten a little better with content creation wise, because while I'm still just being me, I do take the time to like look ahead and see, okay, what's coming out. What am I working on? What am I allowed to talk about? What am I not allowed to talk about? What's trending right now? Since right now, I only have this free time on Saturday, and that's it. I'm going to make a whole bunch of stuff that week, and then I'm just going to drop it online whenever I have time, rather than so. 

26:34 it's not like I'm making stuff all day long, every day. I can't do that. I can't keep working for free because people don't realize if they're not sending gifts or they're donating to your social media you're doing it out of the goodness of your heart on what little spare free time you've got. I don't have all day long to stream and et cetera. Content creation is. I absolutely agree with you, it's no small feat it is a full-time job that does not pay. 

26:59 No small task at all, but it does pay off in jobs, in exposure. 

27:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, absolutely, and that's interesting. My next question was going to be what's your best tips for people starting out in the business? You just gave it to me in that last Well, I got a lot more tips than that, but I loved it because hard work and I'm going to say determination, and especially now that the industry has shifted, I mean and evolved and I think you, more than anyone, really understand how to roll with the changes and to really evolve. 

27:23 - Jon Bailey (Host) Well, you've brought up challenges, and that's what the challenge is that this job has become far more public. It's gotten much bigger. It was already big, but the career itself is already bigger and we have all these factors to be concerned about now, like AI replacing jobs like ADR. 

27:50 And the competition has increased by a ton because now people understand technology is caught up, where you can pretty much do this anywhere with a decent Internet connection, which makes a big chunk of the industry going to be much tougher. But if you do all those things in conjunction, if you get training, get training from good, reliable coaches that are honest, trustworthy and affordable, you'll spare yourself years of research and development. Start creating a brand. I say this to people when I coach and all of a sudden it's like people realize all this stuff is just common sense stuff. 

28:06 Make your profile picture Be the same. Make your bio Be the same across all your platforms. Just be consistent with making something. Find free time, bank up a bunch of free stuff. Post it when you don't have time, because you may not have time to make stuff later, but be showing what. Like I said, everything is content. If all I have time to do is be in the booth doing my job, then I'm going to record myself in the booth doing the job. 

28:29 Add some different audio to it, so I don't break non-disclosure agreement when I'm recording auditions and just post something else over that and make that into a video to show people like I'm freaking, working, I'm doing this stuff here, I am in my booth, or just take a picture, do something, but make content and keep something going out there. Yes, it helps if you stay up with current trends, if you have a particular genre. I'll give you a couple of examples, because people probably think that this is just confined to well, you work in cartoons and movies. It's easy for you because you have all this stuff. That's not necessarily true. You never know which horse is going to win the race. 

29:00 I would have thought that Mad Max would have been a great thing to post content about, but it's not doing as well as I thought it would do. So all the other stuff that I do content for is like okay, well, I can keep making that, but you just kind of have to keep an eye on it. But you have inspirational stuff, you have creepypastas, scary stories. There's just so many things that you can do and it be your brand, as long as you keep consistent and keep making something. And in the meantime you're doing auditions, you're out there, whatever, and as you're growing you can start adding that to like oh well, if you book me, you also get this. 

29:30 I have a protege. I would love for you to interview her sometime. Her name is Hunter and she did not know what a voiceover was before she met me, but she did have performance experience. She used to be a haunter in haunts and let me tell you something it is harder to be a haunter in a haunt than it is to do stand-up comedy, Because you have an infinite amount of time that you're going to be doing this little performance. You've got about 10 minutes In a haunt. You're in there for hours coming up with characters, terrifying people, improvising, doing all the makeup and stuff yourself too. So there's on-camera stuff as well and you develop crazy skill sets that she didn't even know was a valuable skill set. She can create creature sounds that I've never heard a woman do before. 

30:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I've only heard Dee Bradley Baker, do what she's done. 

30:13 - Jon Bailey (Host) And, like you, have any idea how special that skill is in this industry. 

30:17 You need to make content and show people what you do, and especially if it's something that you can do that they cannot do and all of a sudden, within three months of just doing a little voiceover coaching with me showing you the stuff that I know after 16 years, she was booking work, which proves that you don't have to have two years to 16 years to book that kind of stuff. If you have the information and you work hard and you supply the stuff that you learn, you can book stuff right away. This industry is easy to get into. My biggest problem and I'm going to hurt a lot of people's feelings right now my biggest problem is that people come to me with their hands out and that's all they ever do hey, what can I do to blah, blah, blah. 

30:52 And I tell them they're like that doesn't sound like I'm just going to be able to do it without you giving it to me. So I'm like if you don't want it, if you're not willing to work for it, then don't ask. It's not a job where you can just go get an answer and I give you a key and you go open the door and you receive the rewards for it. It took 16 years to do that, yes, yes, it can be condensed down to shorter amount of time. When you find somebody like me who coaches and I've made all those mistakes already in 16 years' time I've gone through every version of how not to do the job, then finally figured out the right way to do the job wouldn't it make sense to invest a little bit of money and save yourself a lot of years to get that information and actually use it and apply it and just work hard at the job? It's kind of like Shawshank Redemption All it takes is time and patience. 

31:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely Well, before we go, I do want to talk to you about your transformation. 

31:42 - Jon Bailey (Host) You look amazing. 

31:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I imagine you must feel great. I feel a lot better today, not so much because I injured my shoulder. 

31:45 - Jon Bailey (Host) I'm sorry, that's right, but again, like I said, everything is content and I'm like you know what. A lot of people are already supportive. They want to see me succeed and I wanted to show them that if I can do something, anybody, if you just put your mind to something and you're just consistent at whether it's your health or your career or whatever, if you're just consistent at it, that's all it is. People just fall out of it because they go too hard, too fast. Whether it's your physical health or whether it's the career, they think that, okay, all I have to do is this one thing and then when it doesn't work out in a couple of months, people just quit. Or a couple of weeks, they just don't give it enough time. You don't get healthy in just a couple of weeks. 

32:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It took years of back and forth and bouncing up and down, you and I both know, because we both been there. 

32:25 - Jon Bailey (Host) I remember, I remember. 

32:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You look like a different person too. 

32:29 - Jon Bailey (Host) I've lost an entire person at this point I'm down 145 pounds. 

32:33 - Intro (Host) I haven't had my biggest, I was 335. 

32:36 - Jon Bailey (Host) That was around the time when you and I met I was literally that. 

32:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No neck guy and my overall goal was 170 pounds, but still is wonderful. 

32:42 - Jon Bailey (Host) Thank you. I've only got 25 pounds left to go. 

32:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Good for you. I still have some to go too, and it's funny People are like what? But I need to continually have that challenge. I feel like I'm like you in that way. 

32:53 - Jon Bailey (Host) I'll give everybody something that really helped me, and it's going to seem like a silly thing, but if your health is important to you and you have people that depend on you and need you to be around, then you should make it a primary thing. Number one. Everything is content. You can film and take pictures of your progress. My progress stuff gets more traction than my professional career stuff does Mine did too my picture of me shrinking. Those are just pictures not even a video. 

33:20 Those pictures had over 3,000 likes and I don't even have that many followers on Instagram. People want to see you succeed and it also inspires them and makes them want to do better for themselves, which is great. So you can literally make that as part of your journey, and I remember incorporating it into my routine. I'm like you know what, instead of it feeling like it's a job and that I have to go lose weight and I have to go hike and I have to go to, I'll make content while I'm out there. I'm make videos of me doing the thing, or make I did different celebrities going to the gym, you know, or working out or exercising, and it became where it was fun and eventually I'm multitasking. At that point, I'm making content and I'm working out. 

33:57 At the same exact time, I'm also finding cool locations while I'm out doing whatever that like you know what. This would be a cool place to make a thing. There's so many different cool factors involved in just doing things better for yourself. The gym that I got for the backyard I was like you know what this would make great if I want to do gym videos because they have a very strict policy about making content inside of a gym, so having a gym in my backyard makes it a lot easier for me. 

34:21 But it also I got it from another voice actor. Dave Fennoy got rid of his old gym because his studio flooded and he did not feel like putting it back in there. 

34:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I got a great deal on it. Oh, that's awesome. I didn't realize that was Dave Fennoy. It helped me network more with yeah it helped me network with Dave Fennoy who's? 

34:37 - Jon Bailey (Host) also a local to Memphis, which you know, I've only known two or three other voice actors that came from where I came from. So there's so many positive things about. Everything is interconnected, everything's all part of one big giant thing and it does sometimes feel a little bit like a video game because you're just like this doesn't feel real, but it's just all the parts working together and just looking for opportunities. I'll put it to you this way there's a movie I hate to bring up Jim Carrey again, but the movie yes man. I don't live quite that strictly to that kind of policy, but I do feel like you should say yes to every opportunity that comes your way. Unless you have a very solid like there, unless you have a very solid like, there's just no way I can. If it feels like there's resistance, then don't do it, but unless there's just something that instantly red flags, I'm just trying to be like yeah, I'll, absolutely. I'll do my best. I'll give it my best freaking shot, whether it's my health, whether it's my content, whether it's a voiceover job. 

35:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I've been shocked at how many times that has worked out for me. 

35:31 - Jon Bailey (Host) Just give it a chance. So many people are not confident in themselves. They don't have security in themselves. I don't think people understand the term fake it till you make it. It's talking about acting. It's literally talking about pretending to be okay and pretending to be fine and acting like you're good even if you're not good, even if you are nervous. This will change your entire life and I'm only going to give this one, and this is just an example of what you get when you coach with me. By the way, if you can pretend to be another person when you go into an audition, it completely changes things, because when you're already acting like you already got the job, you're going to do a better job performing the job. So, whether it comes to in-person auditions or whatever, or social situations or networking situations, you can literally just get comfortable acting like the person who is confident and who is a success until you are that's what faking it do to make it move. 

36:22 People on the spectrum and voice actors and actors and performers. We're all very good at masking, and does that make us an exceptional liars? Probably All of us are not like that in our personal lives. 

36:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But when? 

36:34 - Jon Bailey (Host) you're very good at pretending to be someone else. You can make that into a viable career and it works for your content. It works for your overall brand. It works for your auditions. It also works for your booking. When you actually get the job, People will like you better, when you act like you belong there. In other words, when you go into a session, don't sit there and go. I'm sorry, let me do it again. I'm sorry. 

36:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I messed up. 

36:55 - Jon Bailey (Host) Hang on. I messed up. Hang on. I'm sorry you shut your mouth. Just say let me try that one more time. 

36:59 I got a better one in me Change your mindset, change the way you speak, change the way you act. You're faking it till you make it, because eventually you'll start booking those jobs and it's just. I hate to keep using nerd references, but I am one it he could do it because he saw himself do it, and this is exactly. There was a life changing moment for me when I went into record Bumblebee for the third time and it's one of my favorite movies that I've ever worked on. It's my favorite franchise, my two favorite characters that I got to voice. I had no idea who I was working with in that studio. I didn't have a clue. Nobody told me that anybody from the movie was going to be there. The only people that I saw that were famous were some of the other voice actors that were working. So on the third session I was like I wonder who the director of this film is. And I looked it up and it was the guy I'd been working with for three sessions. 

37:48 I didn't even know he was the director of the movie. I thought he was just the engineer at Paramount and it was like dude. I was nailing it, not even knowing I should be nervous. So why even be nervous? The next chance I got to work with another director, it was Michael freaking Bay. I wasn't even concerned anymore. Everybody was warning me. He's hard to work with. He's difficulty blah, blah, blah. I'm like dude. I worked with Travis Knight, didn't even know I was working with Travis Knight. I'm fine Because I can just act like I belong there and and people will believe it because I'm being very confident. Even though it's fake confidence, it's still confidence and eventually you'll start to believe your own confidence. 

38:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's kind of manifesting. 

38:24 - Intro (Host) Manifesting that it's faking it till you, make it I didn't understand. 

38:27 - Jon Bailey (Host) I heard people say that for years and years and years until I realizing it's just faking confidence until you're actually doing that job, because you really kind of need to prove to everybody else and yourself that, yeah, you can do this, and once you can do it you don't need to worry about it anymore. 

38:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And what I love is knowing you for so long Like I've seen this happen. I've actually watched you become this incredible success, confident, and it's. I love it. I'm just so, so happy for you. 

38:54 - Jon Bailey (Host) I appreciate that it really is just about kind of like learning all the cheat codes. It takes me a little longer than most. I had friends tell me like it takes 10 years to get into cartoons. I booked an anime in eight and thought I was doing good, but then it was just crickets for another four years. So you just never really know. But then when I started realizing it really is all about faking that confidence and just believing in yourself, even if you don't believe in yourself. If you can fake it, other people will believe it. 

39:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm signing up to coach with you, but actually this is a great segue into, first of all, how can people follow you If they don't know they should know because you're all over the place and then how can people work with you. 

39:29 - Jon Bailey (Host) I recently. I won't say it's finished yet because I'm trying to add a couple more pages to it, but I recently overhauled my website thanks to my awesome mentor who also does website design. So if you need a voiceover website, I know somebody and the contact page. There's a section on coaching. My rates are all there. I've expanded from when I first started. You probably remember this. There was a long time I did not want to coach because I didn't feel like I had enough experience for it, because I was like I've only been at this five years. Even though I'm doing great, I don't feel like I've got anything to say to anybody. Brand new, because I'm brand new Now. I don't feel I've got a decade and a half plus two years of research and development. 

40:01 I've worked for the biggest studios out there. I have gone through every version of how to do this job wrong, just like Thomas Edison inventing the light bulb wrong 99 times. I figured out the right way to do it by doing it wrong so many different ways. So I haven't named it yet, but it's kind of like the gamer's guide to voiceover. 

40:17 - Intro (Host) It's a little cheat code magazine. 

40:18 - Jon Bailey (Host) Love it. So, yeah, I'm really easy to find Epic Voice Guy on every major platform and you can contact me via my website page or any DMs across any of the social media. I'll probably still sling you over to my website because it goes straight to my email address, but my coaching rates are ridiculously affordable compared to most people and you won't have to keep coming back for more coaching sessions unless you want to, because I didn't like that when I got started. I think we had this conversation before. I was very against the overall coaching community because I felt like so much of it was predatory. They were giving some of the same information over and over that you can find on the Internet for free. And now they have a website. D Bradley Baker God bless his soul created Iwanttobeavoiceactorcom, and now I don't even have to like look, if you don't want to pay me, spend a few weeks on this free website. No skin off my teeth, you don't have to pay me a dime. 

41:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) If they're not willing to look at that website for a couple of weeks because there's a lot of information there, then they don't really want to do this job and that's my number one go-to thing. 

41:12 - Jon Bailey (Host) But yeah, I coach and I also do other stuff too. I also offer, if they want, fan stuff, a little bit of everything Awesome. 

41:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, you do. I remember that you were doing that back 16 years ago too. 

41:23 - Jon Bailey (Host) Yeah, I try to look at the industry and see where the gaps were and see where is something missing. It's like, oh, I started realizing these brands that reached out to me like, oh, we realize, you make a lot of Transformers content. I was like, well, you know, as a voice actor and having a professional page, I should freaking have a shop page. 

41:39 And then call those companies and say hey, would you like to advertise for free on my website? Duh Three or four, I'm like, yeah, we'll give you some free ads and we'll even throw you a commission if they buy some stuff through the way I mean. 

41:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) there's so much opportunity. 

41:51 - Jon Bailey (Host) We just don't. Nobody really takes the time to think they're just looking at insert job here in the voiceover business and they don't think about all this other stuff. 

41:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's the business mind too. 

42:01 - Jon Bailey (Host) Yeah, the simplest way I can put it, because I know your time is valuable too. The simplest way I can put it is if you're going to fish because you're starving to death and it's your only option, you have plenty of opportunities to fish, but you have a boat and you have a place to fish Do you put one hook in the water or do you put them all in if you have the opportunity, to put them all in there If you have a chance to catch more fish? Look for every single chance, every single opportunity, whether it's a YouTube and a TikTok and a Twitch and a whatever. If you're a gamer, game, if you're a reactor, react but do something. Build it around your skill set, make content on every platform out there. Look for every opportunity networking opportunities, voiceover meetups like what Anne and I used to go to the coaching sessions from people that are reliable free website resources. 

42:47 There's a ton out there If you just put in the freaking effort. That's where you guys make me angry. Put in the freaking effort. 

42:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) This podcast is a resource. 

42:55 - Jon Bailey (Host) Exactly, I've been doing this podcast for eight years, eight years weekly. So yeah, I just celebrated my eight year and you guys are not paying for it. This is free resources that are extremely helpful, Jon. 

43:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Bailey, john Bailey. Oh my gosh, it has been so wonderful. We should have like five more, no, 15 more episodes. 

43:11 - Jon Bailey (Host) I mean I would if I didn't have a game to record I know right. 

43:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I could go on and on and on and I have a session I got to get to myself. I take that back. Five sessions. 

43:19 - Jon Bailey (Host) I forgot one. I just booked another one today. Five sessions and two out of five are at home. That's not normal though. 

43:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But I did want to be fair and honest. That means you got to drive three out of the five too, so that's time involved as well. Knowing this area. 

43:32 - Jon Bailey (Host) Oh, that's aed. There you go, there you go, oh my gosh. 

43:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) John, it's been amazing. Thank you so, so much for this. Bosses out there, follow John and coach with John. I'm telling you, you were like a fountain. You're a fountain of wisdom and information and again, thank you I keep telling people they should go to me. 

43:54 - Jon Bailey (Host) I've got living proof. If you want living proof of how far you can come with a little information for me, if you are properly motivated and you work hard, go to VoxyDitch on any of the social medias. That's my mentee. I'm mentoring her and look how quickly she has people coming to her asking her for voiceover advice. Awesome, only being in this job for a few months. 

44:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Awesome. Well, John, thanks again. Bosses, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can network and connect like bosses like John and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Everyone have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye. 

44:33 - Intro (Host) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

Join us as we sit down with Steve Pogatch, Senior Manager of Voice Over Operations at Studio Resonate, SiriusXM and Pandora, to uncover the transformative journey of voiceover and audio advertising over the past decade. Prepare to have your perceptions of podcast advertising turned upside down. We dive into the fascinating differences between host reads and announcer reads. Gain valuable tips on delivering standout performances, crafting compelling commercial reels, and handling ambiguous scripts with finesse. Steve underscores the importance of prompt communication and reliable turnaround times while highlighting the industry's efforts to protect voice talent amidst the rise of synthetic voices. Finally, discover the impact of the Sonic Diversity Initiative, a significant step towards inclusivity in voice casting.

00:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, upgrade your voiceover game with VIPeeps and access our extensive library of over 350 hours of pre-recorded workshops. Whether you're interested in commercials, audiobooks, corporate narration, video games, promos, our workshops cover it all. Plus, as a VIPeeps member, you'll enjoy a 15% discount on current workshops and complimentary monthly workshops to further develop your skills. Join VIPs today and take your voiceover career to new heights. Find out more at vopeepscom. 

00:39 - Intro (Host) It's time to take your business to the next level the boss level. It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, anne Ganguza. 

00:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, anne Ganguza, and today I'm very excited to have with me in the studio a very special guest, senior Manager of Voice Over Operations of Studio Resonate, which is SiriusXM Media Pandora Stitcher, Steve Pogatch. In addition to producing thousands of high-quality audio ads in the past 10-plus years that he's been at Pandora, steve has been the go-to guy for all things VO casting, direction and quality. He's responsible for recruiting, auditioning and curating new talent for the Pandora VO roster, as well as managing that roster. Steve, I am so super excited to have you with us today. Thanks so much for being with us. 

01:42 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. I feel like I've reached the upper echelon of the VO world now that I'm on the Boss podcast. 

01:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So thank you so much. Well, thank you, thank you. Well, we're super excited to glean all of your years of wisdom and I'm just so excited that we had this opportunity that I saw you in person. I had to see you in person to beg you to come on the show. So let's kick off things by talking a little bit about your journey at Pandora. You've been there for 10 years and I know in the past 10 years in my voiceover career, I've seen a ton of things change. Talk to us a little bit about what you've seen as far as changes in audio advertising, casting and voiceover. 

02:24 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Sure. So yeah, about 10 years ago when I started I was just a producer and our voice roster was maybe about 60 talents or so Wow, and yeah, when they started their advertising department they were getting talents off of Craigslist and other places that I really didn't know. So when I got there, that roster was on an Excel spreadsheet really and it was just filled with all kinds of information and it was really hard to manage and navigate. But a lot of the voices were that terrestrial radio, you know announcer-y style voice. 

02:56 And one overarching theme is that voices and everything we've been doing for the past 10 plus years has really just escalated from the announcer-y like hey, pandora listeners, you know like radio style, to hey, pandora listener, you know it's like instead of talking to a group of people talking to one person, you're interrupting their music flow, you're tapping them on the shoulder. You know you're in their earbuds and you just hey, let me tell you about this Tide detergent or Cascade dishwashing liquid or something like that, and just the gentle approach. So it's really gravitated from the super announcer-y, terrestrial radio style to super conversational. The directional word I love to use nowadays is casual a lot. Everyone's sick of conversational already. They're like oh yeah, you're talking to a friend, blah blah, blah, you know yeah. 

03:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know, what's so funny is just my own personal feelings about it is, I get that Like I think they're just sick of the conversational word, but in reality we have conversations with each other every single day, and so there's all different styles of conversational. It could be authoritative conversational, it could be like super casual conversational. I think that when it comes to advertising, though, one of the reasons why it's kind of gotten to that in your ear one-on-one sort of, I think that's what sells and I think that's the evolution of advertising over the years. Would you say that that's true? 

04:18 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I think so it's. You know, the more personal you can get, or targeted, you know, with an ad, or I mean not to the point where it's creepy, but to the point where it resonates with the listener. You know where it's like, oh yeah, the same thing with VO talent getting into a script and connecting with a script. It's like you want to connect with that listener, like, oh yeah, I do use that dish soap every night. 

04:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, yeah, I want to. 

04:40 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Oh yeah, that sounds interesting to me, you know. 

04:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So then I guess my question would be is and this is probably something you're very familiar with is that they ask you to have that casual, like engaged, sort of sound, but yet they don't always write it so that it's easy to achieve that? Do you find that, in terms of the copy that you're seeing come across your desk over and over again, like people still want it to be very, you know, like you're talking to your best friend or that casual, but yet sometimes it's written like super announcer-y? 

05:08 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, and that is hard. That is really hard when you get the bullet point style our orange juice has 100% fresh pulp and made from only Valencia oranges. It's like there's three other facts attached to that and you're squeezing that into 30 seconds spot. It's like there's three other facts attached to that and you're squeezing that into 30 seconds spot. It's like how do we get these bullet points to be super conversational? 

05:30 - Intro (Host) That is hard. 

05:31 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) That is very hard for a talent and for a copywriter. So we do have some great copywriters on our team on Studio Resonate that actually really write great scripts and whenever I can get scripts with humor in them or stuff like that, it just really makes the whole experience better. 

05:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now in the studio, are you always writing the copy, or do the clients come and provide copy as well, or do you make suggestions? Let's say, when they come with copy and then they ask for a super casual read, or they have 5,000 words when they need it in 30 seconds. 

06:02 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, that happens. The struggle is real. 

06:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) The struggle is real. 

06:06 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I'd say I don't know the exact percentage, but from where I sit I don't do the writing, but it feels like maybe half and half half are our copywriters and half might be the clients, and sometimes we'll actually take the clients and go here, let us try and rewrite this in a Pandorified way or something like that. And sometimes again, it's like those bullet points-y stuff that really need to get in there and don't even get me started on like some like pharmacy disclaimers and stuff like that. 

06:32 - Intro (Host) You probably know from medical narration and stuff like that. 

06:34 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) It's just like woo. You know, it's like 90 words in a 30 second script. 

06:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, but they're changing too. It's interesting if you actually listen to some of them now I don't think they're as fast as they used to be, because I'm almost positive that because it's a legal disclaimer that they have to be, like, understood by the listener, and so sometimes if they're talking too fast then it's not clear, or because I've really noticed that trend and I don't know if it's the same in terms of I've seen it on television at least. 

07:04 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah. 

07:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't know about Pandora, but very interesting. So then my question is is the casual read dying? Are people coming back to announcer style, or are you seeing variations on the type of casual? 

07:20 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I hope it's not going back to announcer, because we've really worked hard on this whole gentle approach. Yeah, exactly, and you know personally, when I meet a voice actor who's locked into that whole radio world like I have 27 years of radio experience how do I get on your roster and I just kind of go well, how do I let you down gently? 

07:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, exactly Because you're looking for an actor. 

07:44 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Some talents and again talents who haven't really evolved with us in the 10 years that I've been there at least, or may not be on our roster anymore because there has been that evolution. But yeah, it's really difficult for some people who have been locked into that radio world to actually shift and change and it's part of their muscle memories. 

08:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right Interesting. I know that even when it comes to, like, long format narration, I know that just reading it it doesn't cut it anymore. I mean, you have to be in their ear and that's super hard, given you've got more than a minute's worth of copy and it's not always written in a first person kind of way, so that I know the struggle is real for that as well. So, in terms of advertising, would you say that there are more advertisements from 10 years ago today, or how are you seeing the trend? Because I know in podcasting there's a lot of people who, like they find advertising annoying and so they fast forward quickly, and so I'm just curious to see how advertising is received in terms of listenership and in terms of popularity of people. Yeah, let's advertise on Pandora. 

08:49 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) It's funny because when I first started this job, I would meet people at like a party or something like that, or a dinner, you know a get together, and they were like oh, where do you work? 

08:57 - Intro (Host) I'm like, oh, I work at Pandora. 

08:58 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) They're like I love Pandora, and then I just sit back and wait for the next sentence. They take a breath and they go, but the ads, yeah, exactly. 

09:14 - Intro (Host) You, he knew it. And then I go, hey. 

09:15 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I make those ads and then talk about like an awkward. You know you can hear a glass drop in the background, but it's just like, well, we're trying to you know to make these ads gentle and not as abrasive and in your face like real radio ads. 

09:22 And then they turn around and they start to agree with me. I'm like yeah, yeah, you know, okay, but I think the Free Pandora, you knowora, has really kind of survived on the advertising and I haven't really done a count in a while, but I don't think it's that many ads. I don't think it's really changed over time either, like in terms of an ad pod and an hour listening session. 

09:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I think it is what it is. I mean, you have to support the medium and I know that for myself, like on the VO Boss podcast, I've had sponsors which I wait until the end typically to say anything about the sponsors. But lately I'm like gosh, I've had this podcast for seven and a half years and I've never done any advertising, and so now I'm kind of doing my own ads. Now we'll see how that turns out. But my question to you is is that podcast advertising is now really started to become a thing just because podcasts are now becoming a thing? So what are your thoughts on that? Are you seeing trends? Are you seeing changes in how people tolerate ads and podcasts? 

10:16 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I mean, I actually am guilty of fast-forwarding through a podcast ad recently, when I was listening to a podcast. 

10:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It better not be mine. 

10:23 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Shame on me. 

10:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's like a voice actor who fast-forwards through a commercial on television. 

10:27 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Right, it was their own. No, no, no. 

10:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I don't watch commercials Really. 

10:34 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) But since SiriusXM bought Stitcher a few years ago, they were a podcast company. So we had to kind of figure out okay, we're going to do a lot more podcast ads now, so what does this sound like? So I feel like in the past few years we've been kind of sculpting this. There's a couple of different versions of what we work with in our group, on our team, and one is host reads. You know, it's like you have your Conan O'Briens and they're just handed a sheet of bullet points and they're ad living. 

11:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, yes, and I think that's effective. 

11:02 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, if you ever listen to Conan O'Briens ad reads, they're incredible. 

11:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, it's smart list. I'm going to put my vote in for SmartList. Okay, Really, really excellent. It's Sean Hayes, Dustin Bateman and oh my gosh, Will Arnett. 

11:15 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah. 

11:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And so each one of them take turns. And you're right, they get the bullet points and they add them. They're amazing, they're funny. That's the best yeah, and so I agree. So that's just so so interesting yeah. 

11:25 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) So that's the host read, and then we also do this thing called announcer. 

11:29 Read now again that word announcer is not used in the same context that I just told you that we've evolved from. It's just quote announcer read, it's another package or whatever. So we've been trying to sculpt what does this announcer read sound like? Well, in my eyes it's like an offshoot of the conversational, because you're listening to a podcast and it's usually two hosts, you know, or whoever the hosts are, they're just shooting the breeze, you know, talking to one another, you know, we've all heard that. And then boom, a podcast ad comes in. So how do we want that ad to be? And it's the same thing as interrupting someone's music flow Again. But this is like. So we just want that super casual approach. 

12:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But you can still tell the difference, because it's not necessarily ad-libbed right Like a host Right. 

12:14 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, you can definitely yeah, but we're trying to write that way as well, and we've been working on this for a couple of years already, and I feel like we're getting there and we have a select group of talent. 

12:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think I'm going to hire you guys. I wrote my own and it took a long time because trying to write it as a host and in trying to like write something to sell something, I'm doing it myself, not bouncing it off anybody, and so it's a tough way to write. I mean, it's a whole different way of writing. Very interesting. 

12:41 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I actually. You know, I produced a podcast for my wife and her sister my sister-in-law and my wife is a therapist and a coach and she has products and stuff like that and she finally said oh, I should advertise myself on there. Sure, I said, you know, go to chat GPT and have them write some scripts for you and adjust it. 

13:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) She didn't ask you to write them. 

13:05 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) No. 

13:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No, Steve, I think maybe. 

13:07 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I already do too much. Producing this podcast is a lot more work than I expected, but I said feed in your website or something like that, so they know who you are. 

13:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Again, I'm not super experienced with it yet I did have some help with ChatGPT writing my own ad, yeah and she came up with three, and so I created three commercials for her. 

13:23 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Now I put them in a rotation for her midway through her podcast, so it's cool. And then they also turn it on ads wherever they're uploading their podcast to as well, so it'll be her ad, and then whatever ads they decide to put in there as well. 

13:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So yeah, let's talk a little bit more about when you're recruiting or trying to find new talent for your roster. What is the process and what are you looking for? What sort of qualities in a voice actor are you looking for that are suitable for your roster? I know before it used to be a thing in the industry where it would be like, oh, they're opening up the roster, so everybody would be like, oh my God, did you get an invite, or it was that kind of thing. Or did you submit? Did you submit and did you get asked to be on the roster? And it was a big thing when you weren't thing, when you weren't. I remember that it was years ago. I submitted. I just remember, like going in the underground VO circles, it was the big thing. 

14:15 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, and I will say it's very hard. We have 260 talents on our roster, or 250 talents on our roster right now, and I'd say it's pretty jammed up, so it's like it's really hard to like find what are we looking for now. You know, I feel like every time someone applies or sends me something, the number one reason I have to tell people is you know, you kind of sound like one or two other people on our roster and I feel bad like you are a superstar. 

14:41 But yeah you know I can't give the people on our roster a disservice and I can't give you a disservice by oversaturating those kind of voices. So it's been tough to manage and we don't open the roster at any particular time. I know at the end of the year I do a little house cleaning. So people who aren't really, who are maybe booking one or two jobs a year, it's like, let me tell you, that's the hardest thing about saying goodbye to someone because they're not booking enough, like sorry, you've only booked like two gigs in the past two years. It's like you know that's not sustainable for you as us being a client of yours. It's like you're firing me. I'm like no, I'm not. No, I don't want to use that word, no, but again, it's not sustainable for you to just book one spot a year from us. You know. 

15:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, I book one spot a year from us, you know. So, right, I agree, and I also think that it's hard for talent because they take it very personally when in fact sometimes it's not. I mean, sometimes, yes, it may be performance related, correct, but myself, having been in casting and having done Vio Basta as an audition demolition, but in casting and for projects like that, I just know that sometimes it has nothing to do with the performance, it has everything to do with oh okay, I have this product and this voice is not the demographic that I'm looking for, and so a lot of it is based on the client and what kind of voice they're looking for and who they're trying to sell to. Is that similar to what you feel, as well as to why some people get picked on the roster, like is there a trending sound right now, like millennial, like that kind of thing? 

16:13 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) No, I mean there was the millennial thing, I think, but we've gotten everything we need right now and I just like what I really watch out for is oversaturating certain age ranges, you know, and just like you know, okay, we already have some, you know, senior age, males only a couple and then it's like do I bring one more on? No, because again it's that oversaturation thing. That's the thing I have to watch out for the most these days. 

16:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So what would be your tips or secrets to help voice actors deliver their best performances? Not necessarily to get on the roster, but because I mean you've been casting for years and casting talent and performances. So what would be your best tips for helping VO talent deliver a great performance? 

16:59 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Sure, I mean, I think the number one thing in the way we deal with talent is we're not doing a lot of live sessions, we're booking via email. So in those cases you're going to have to send us three takes, and your confidence and your self-direction is really what's at play here. So I would say that's like the number one kind of thing that we really hope you have is that confidence and self-direction, because you're going to send us three choices and you can't be unsure and you can't send us three of the exact same carbon copy. We've had some talents in the past? 

17:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, how often does that happen? 

17:33 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) It's happened where I actually have taken all three of their takes and put them on top of each other in Pro. 

17:38 - Intro (Host) Tools or whatever. 

17:39 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) And it's just one thing, echo and there's no difference between any of them. It's almost like it's eerie. Yeah, so that's a no do. But other stuff, definitely a good commercial reel. I think from like listening to a ton of commercial reels, I'm starting to learn like what makes a good one these days. You know, and also sitting on the speed dating with your demo panel the past few years at Solvus, I've had people give me demos that are, like you know, sound effects heavy, and then there's another voice on there and I say you have 60 seconds, add up the sound effects, add up the other voices on here. What's that? Four, five, six seconds? Okay, that's 10% of your demo. 

18:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's not you. That's real estate. 

18:21 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, so you can have sound effects, but not have it just be by themselves or start your demo with a big explosion or something like that, right, unless you're going for terrestrial radio or whatever I don't know. But yeah, other stuff is like. One thing I really appreciate from a talent is I call it VO intuition. If you have a script that, for example, it says finance or something like that, and you're not sure the way the client wants it, you know it's finance or finance and I want to write a book that has those words in VO data data. You know, I wonder if anyone's done that yet. A book that all the words that could be said two different ways. 

18:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh right. 

18:57 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) There's my quarter million dollar idea. I guess I don't know. But if you have a script like that and it's like 9 o'clock pm and the producer's not available, send it both ways and say hey. 

19:07 I gave it to you. So that's what I call VO intuition. I really appreciate that when it's like oh, I didn't know if you wanted data or data, so I'm giving it to you both ways or I'm picking up this sentence. Stuff like that is really great, but it's not a requirement. Good communication If I send good communication, you know, if I send you a request, I want to hear back from you within, you know, three or four hours, say, yes, I got it, I got you, I'm going to hit it by the deadline, no problem, our turnarounds are like 24 to 48 hours, so we need that as well. So, yeah, stuff like that and other stuff. I mean definitely the commercial demo is number one. These are nice to have character work singing, but, again, not required got Got it. 

19:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So what qualities in addition to like, let's say, the demo? Right, let's say you have a demo and the demo is amazing. And then, all of a sudden, do you find talent sometimes that don't equate to the demo. Meaning what you hear on the demo is not necessarily what you get back when you give them. Okay, here's a job the customer picked out for you. Can you give me three versions of it? And then, all of a sudden, it sounds nothing like their demo. And then what happens at that point? 

20:09 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Do you direct them or yeah, I mean, there is always a chance for us to get on the phone or do a live session. But in terms of our recruiting and the way it works to get on our roster is we listen to the demos and if we really like it, then we'll reach out with a whole packet of auditions. Oh god, this is like 12 different scripts you know from like automotive, university, healthcare, retail, and then we've just created a podcast script and cpg, which is consumer packaged goods, and a conversational script and ad lib script. So it's like 12 of those scripts. So that gives us. So you'll find out. Yeah, did you record in a fancy studio and now you're at your kitchen table and what you did on your demo? Is that also translating as well to our scripts? 

20:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So let's talk a little bit about I always call it like the technological disruptor in the room synthetic voices. Are you finding that you have clients that are looking for that these days and, if so, do you have a source or how do you feel about it? What's your take on synthetic voices and their place in the industry today? 

21:13 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I think there are some spots where it would be good for a talent, you know, like if you had your clone and you were in control of it. I think that is number one. Again, I want to shout out to Nava and everything they're doing for. Ai Because I believe in all the stuff that their manifesto, everything about how they stand for the vo industry and ai. 

21:34 I'm just so into what they're doing so I gotta shout out for them. But there are places, you know, suppose you were given something you know where you needed to read like 2500 addresses or something like that, you know, and you're just like, oh god, I can't do, I can't do this, I'm going to blow out my voice or it's going to take six hours. And then you're like, all right, I'll just do the body of the spot and then turn my clone on to do that. It's hard to figure out. What are the rates? What is a good rate for that as well? You know, and that's kind of stuff I think about, you know, when I'm what is a good rate? I always want to stand for our talents and try and get the best rates possible for them. So you know, that's something I need to think about if we ever were to go into an AI world Right now. I mean, some clients are asking for it and stuff like that. 

22:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And what type of applications Are they asking for it in terms of it's because they can't afford or they have, let's say, volume material that they think it's an ongoing thing where just a date will change or a price will change or a couple of things will change. 

22:30 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I don't think it's gotten that expressive yet or that detailed yet. I think they're just like wanting to touch the new toys that are out there Play around yeah. 

22:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I actually almost I agree with you on that, because I feel like it's kind of novelty. People just want to see how good it is and I think for certain things, as you mentioned and a big shout out to Nava and one of the reasons why on the VO Boss podcast and Bosses if you haven't listened to it I did an extensive set of interviews with a number of AI companies to talk to them about ethics and the industry and synthetic voices in general, and I got educated. I did a lot of work and I got educated and I think that's wonderful and Nava is a really wonderful source for being educated as well, and so I think if we own the creative license to our voices and we can control it, I think that's moving in a positive direction and we just need to get it there first so that we can do that Absolutely. 

23:27 But I don't think that the technology is there yet for emotion or rhythm or that kind of thing, although there's lots of great examples out there, and the scary thing about some of the great examples is somebody will say, oh gosh, listen to this. And everybody's like, oh my God, it's really good. And then everybody panics and gets scared. And in reality there's a lot of technical things on the backend and this is just from my own education, from interviewing so many people that worked in the AI industry that there's many, many different ways that people come out with these samples and you don't know how much engineering is done on the back end to make them sound that good. 

24:01 And there's different technologies too. I mean there's text-to-speech, and then there's speech-to-speech, which is an entirely different technologies too. I mean there's text-to-speech, and then there's speech-to-speech, which is an entirely different thing, which is what they use for high-end Hollywood movie dubs, and that's where it sounds scary good. And so a lot of times you don't know. You don't know how it was produced or how it was manufactured. But kudos to NAVA again. And the sooner we can get legislation in place so that we can be protected, the better. You know, I've always said that we should, as an industry, just evolve. I mean, we're not going to make it go away, that's for darn sure. So we need to evolve and somehow work with it as it evolves as well. I don't think anymore that AI's high power is in synthetic voices anymore. I really feel that it's in data manipulation and data curation, and that's where its true strength is in terms of helping the world, you know, and hopefully in a good way. 

24:55 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I think there's also in my mind. There's a difference between, like the synthetic voices which are just like sprinkling stuff into a blender, and creating a new voice, versus a real person who owns their clone and they're in charge of their clone. That, to me, feels like the more comfortable situation. 

25:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And to me I feel like that's like money-wise, it's an equal split, right? I feel like I should get 50% and the company that has my voice and generates my voice and hosts my voice right with their engine should get 50%. That's where I start in terms of why not, right? 

25:28 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) yeah, if you need a pickup and you're like I'm sleeping, I'm on vacation, I'm in charge, I'm going to push the button, I'll get you that pickup, but I'm just going to set it for my phone right here, you know, or, yeah, you're in charge of that locker or whatever it is. 

25:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So yeah, well, what other predictions? So I guess I'll say, if you took a look into the crystal ball outside of synthetic voices, what sort of predictions do you have for the future, at least for yourself and audio production and advertising? 

25:54 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Well, this is what I'm enjoying a lot more in my day-to-day is more immersive sound design in audio advertising. 

26:05 We are starting to do some cool stuff in the 3D space, where and I'm now the go-to guy Well, I'd like to think I'm now the go-to guy on my team for horror movie trailers or all things horror, because I just did something the other day that was really cool for this horror movie coming up and I just enjoyed taking an alien and going whoo whoo, whoo, whoo whoo, but in the headphones, where it comes from the top of the head to the bottom, or you can go around in that 3D space in headphones, which is really cool. 

26:41 So anytime I could do that where you're just getting more theater of the mind stuff to actually immerse a listener and just have the VO be a support to that. I think if we can get more into those kind of things almost cinematic ads in your headphones I think that might be the way to really get people to enjoy ads too and really just be like whoa, did you hear that? You know, imagine people talking about did you hear that audio ad? You know? Like when they're in the same way people talk about super bowl ads, you know it's like, yeah, I'd love to get there. 

27:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, audio ads like that. One other thing before I have to leave you, we could probably do five podcasts with all this really great conversation. Tell us a little bit about you started something called the sonic great conversation. Tell us a little bit about you started something called the Sonic Diversity Initiative. Talk to us a little bit about that. Sure. 

27:23 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) This is like something we started during the pandemic. It's called Stand for Sonic Diversity and is a website we created called standforsonicdiversitycom, and basically we just started to take a look at our casting practices and other advertising agencies and we kind of put out almost like a pledge to other advertising agencies hey, will you guys pledge along with us to make your casting and your rosters more diverse and more inclusive? And as a result, I've worked really hard and I'm proud to say that our roster is now more than 50% voices of color. So I'm really proud of that work and we're trying to also make sure that our casting practices are that way. 

28:10 Because, back then it was like you know, you're just like, unless a client specified, you would maybe assume like, oh, if they don't specify, then they want a white talent as their go-to and it's like no. So we decided we can move the needle from within by just making these changes internally and smartly, and it's the right thing to do. And so we also put this pledge up to other agencies and other advertising conglomerates and stuff like that, and hopefully they all join in as well. 

28:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wonderful, wonderful. 

28:39 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Well, thank you for that, yeah if you go to that site, there's a really cool audio spot that you can play there, and I am I'm proud to produce that spot as well. 

28:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So what's that site again? Stanforsonicdiversitycom okay, awesome, so all right. My last question, which is here's a fun question for you if you were stranded on a deserted island and you could only bring three albums or podcasts with you, what would they be? I mean, I figure you must have some music preferences, for sure yeah, oh man only three, wow all right. 

29:15 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) One of them is Prince. 

29:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Ah, Of course I say 1999. 

29:21 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) No, it's a double album. 

29:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, just saying Prince is enough for me. Yeah, yeah, I would absolutely. 

29:27 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I like that it's the one with Housequake and Starfish and Coffee. I don't know why the name has escaped me. It's one of my favorite albums too he's brilliant. He's brilliant. Yes, and then I'm also a metalhead and I like kind of like heavy hardcore music and there's a band I. 

29:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Why did I know that? Why did I know that somehow? 

29:44 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I play in two bands actually, so that's my weekend. Therapy is going and playing super loud music. 

29:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There you go, and what do you play if I can? 

29:51 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) ask I play bass. 

29:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, okay, awesome, my brother plays. Brother plays bass. Yeah, wow, okay, can we hear you anywhere? Is that a thing? Can we hear you somewhere? 

29:59 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Uh-huh, I'm in a band, it's an all-dad band, and this is the best name for an all-dad band. It's called that Ship has Sailed. I love it, I love it. We're on all the streaming places and I'm in're called Converge and their album is called Jane Doe. Okay, and then one more. 

30:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh God, it could be a podcast too, if you have a favorite podcast. 

30:29 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah. 

30:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Because you've got to keep yourself busy. 

30:32 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Right. 

30:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So maybe the podcast would be more refreshing because it would come out on a regular basis. 

30:39 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) There was one podcast I listened to by a co-worker introduced it to me and it's not something I can listen to over again because it was pretty intense, but it was really cool. It was called Sweet Bobby, I think. Okay, it was like a kind of a true crime kind of podcast. 

30:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that I have. 

30:53 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I wouldn't take that with me, though. I'm sorry you put me on the spot. 

30:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's okay, that's all right. I think you did really well. 

31:00 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Thank you. 

31:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So let me ask you I'm really excited by the way that, before I let you go, that I'm going to have you as a guest director for my VO Peeps group, which is going to be really amazing coming up in July. So thank you, Very excited to have that happen. If a voice talent, Voice talent want to reach out and find you, see all the good things that you do, listen to your band and also the other website that we mentioned, when can they find you? 

31:23 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) You can probably hit me on LinkedIn or my email address is spogach at pandoracom. It might change to SiriusXM shortly. But one thing I like to tell talents and I guess I'm overly nice this way is like I'm always happy to lend talents their ears, like, for example, if someone sends a mission out or they want you, they want to know oh, why didn't I get that audition? You know, I'm happy to give feedback on there. It's like almost like you're all sending resumes out in the world. You don't hear anything back. You know it's, and it's like you're sending auditions out and no one ever gets feedback. So I'm always happy to lend an ear and give feedback. Or someone's like oh, can you listen to my demo? If I have time, I'm glad to take a minute and listen to someone's demo, give them feedback and stuff like that. 

32:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's wonderful, I guess I'm too nice, I don't know. Now I'm going to send everybody your way out. 

32:14 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I know. 

32:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) By the way, I'm changing my email address. There you go, yeah, right, well, steve, it has been so wonderful to have you here. Thank you so much for taking the time. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. Yes, you too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Steve, thank you again, it's been wonderful. 

32:35 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Thank you, can't wait to see you. It was great talking to you. 

32:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah for VO. Peeps and bosses, you have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. 

32:44 - Intro (Host) Bye-bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IP. 

Explore the intricacies of financial success in your voiceover business with our new series "Boss Money Talks," featuring special guest Danielle Famble. Discover how assembling a team of financial experts, like accountants and CPAs, can help you track expenses, handle taxes, and ensure consistent profitability. The BOSSES highlight the benefits of separating personal and business finances and the advantages of having ongoing relationships with professionals. They discuss the benefits of quarterly meetings to assess profit and tax liabilities and the complexities of running a business, including payroll and compliance. This episode is packed with actionable advice to help you build a reliable financial team and set a solid financial structure for your voiceover business.

00:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey boss listeners. Are you ready to turn your voiceover career goals into achievements? With my personalized coaching and demo production, I'm here to help you reach new milestones. You know you're already part of a boss community that strives for the very best. Let's elevate that. Your success is my next project. Find out more at anganguzacom. 

00:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, anne Ganguza. 

00:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza, and today I am so excited to start a new series called Boss Money Talks with the one and only Danielle Famble. I am so excited, Danielle, to have you on the show today to talk about something so important to our businesses, and that's money. Welcome, hey. 

01:10 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Anne, thank you so much for having me on. This is really exciting. 

01:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I have to say it is my honor to have you. When I interviewed you and bosses if you didn't catch our last episode together I was just blown away by your savviness financially and, of course, voice actor and all that other good stuff. But it's very rare to find someone who really is all about the financial aspects of things and you're just right on top of everything. And I just was so excited to ask you to create a series with me on this because I think it's really important for the success of any boss out there for their business. 

01:47 So, kicking off the first episode, I thought maybe we should talk about forming your team, because I recently spoke to my accountant and she handles things for me and I absolutely love it and I said it so many times across many, many episodes how important my accountant is to me. I thought, wow, we really need to like go over this again for any bosses that are out there really starting their own business how important it is to get your finances in order. Do you have a team of people that work with you? I mean, I know you have background in finance, but do you have a team of people for your business? 

02:22 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I do. I think it's really important to talk about having a team, because as a solo entrepreneur, you want to do everything yourself, and some things you could do yourself, but it's just better to have an expert in that field. Oh, I so agree, and so, for me, I think I am the expert in the business in voiceover, in what I do, and so I want to bring in experts who are good at what they do so they can help educate me on how I can run my business better, because the main point of having a business is to create a profit, which is more money coming in than goes out, and if someone can help you exactly that's like kind of the basic, that's what we're doing here and if you can have someone who can help you exactly. 

03:03 That's like kind of the basic. That's what we're doing here, yeah, and if you can have someone who can help you understand the profits and the business and what to do with the money and how to handle your taxes, all of that stuff, like having that team will help you grow and scale your business. 

03:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and I think accounting isn't something that I love to do. I mean, that's like one of my biggest reasons for when I got my accountant was that. Not that I wasn't financially savvy, but it certainly wasn't my main focus. I didn't go to school for it, and so when I started my own business, I was like, oh my gosh, I have to keep track of all of these things, like I'm spending money on equipment, I'm spending money on coaching, I'm spending money on demos, and God, I have to report this at the end of the year, right, and it just. 

03:46 I remember I didn't really have great record keeping in the first year. Now, granted, I was doing it part time, but still I had to account right for the money that I expensed and the money that came in, even though it wasn't a whole lot. That first year, I wanted to make sure I was taking advantage of the fact that I gave up the corporate job. And now, all of a sudden, I've got to account for things, because at the end of the year, uncle Sam is going to want to know what I've been doing and when I waited too long to be very organized in my expenses and accounting, I, at the end of the year when I got ready for taxes. It was hell. It was just pure hell. 

04:23 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) No one wants that. Like two or three months or two or three weeks I've been there of like just the worst possible aches in your stomach because you're like, oh no, in, like March or April, it's just horrible. 

04:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's like oh God, tax season, it's here. I got to do this. I got to do this and I was using oh gosh, back in the day, I was using QuickBooks, but on desktop, and so it was like I want to talk about like 15 years ago, and it just was like one of those things where, like God, I got to enter another transaction. 

04:55 It was just one of those things that just became very tedious and I was like I really don't like this. And ultimately I was very fortunate to have a recommendation for an accountant that could work with me. And that first year because again it was so long ago QuickBooks wasn't online or anything and, as a matter of fact, there was that whole stigma of you don't want to do anything financial online because it's scary and your security and that kind of thing. But how lucky are bosses in this day and age you know what I mean to kind of have that advantage that now things are so much more secure. Now you might say, well, is it really secure? But I have to say it's a whole lot more secure than it used to be, or at least I was always comfortable. 

05:37 I remember in the 90s paying my bills online and I was one of the few people to do that. I mean, in the beginning I was just like, look at some point, you just have to trust the technology at some point and it's so much easier to pay things online. When I got my accountant for my business here, it was like magic. It was like we would meet once a week and she got to know my business and she got to know, like, what sorts of things were expenses, what sorts of things were income, and especially important was separating those expenses so that it wasn't all I had one account. I mean, I think when we talked before in our past episode we talked about how important it was to have a business account. Talk to us a little bit again about business accounts and what's important about that. 

06:20 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) The most important, especially when it comes to taxes, but really just for simplicity, is to be able to separate your personal life from your business life. Your personal life, hopefully, is affected by your business life, as in your business, pays you to do the job that you do for your business. But keeping them separate is going to be very helpful, especially when it comes to taxes, and it will be easier for your financial team, as you build it, to be able to say okay, this is tax, this is business and this is personal. Here's how we keep them separate. There may be tax implications. You may be able to write certain things off if it's business, whereas if it's personal you can't. So it's helping you, but it's also helping your team keeping everything separate. 

07:07 It's like legally, you kind of have to. I mean, imagine if, like any major corporation, the CEO of that corporation is just like swiping their own personal credit or debit card, Like you've got to treat your business, no matter the size or the scale of it, the way that other businesses are treated because they are taxed similarly. So this isn't necessarily just about business practices, but for me, with money, all of it I think about is like, come April 15th or come like the quarterly tax period. How can I set myself up for success now so I'm not feeling crunched and stressed for a couple of weeks during tax time when my CPA is probably not as available to me because they've got other people to work with? So keeping it separate will help you with bookkeeping. It will help you with, like the way that you think about your business and personal, how you can pay certain bills on time. Just keep it two separate accounts one for your personal and one in your business name. 

08:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure, now question for you. Now my I guess I would call her my bookkeeper. She also does my taxes, so I don't know if yours is one in the same, but what I found to be super helpful and convenient is that I literally just have her on retainer. She does everything for me, and what is wonderful is that now we use QuickBooks online and so literally we can have a meeting and the two of us can be on the phone talking on a weekly basis or whenever I need to meet with her regarding okay, what is this? Is this a new category or is this an expense? And she pretty much knows my business because she's been doing this for me for about 10 years, so she pretty much knows what's going on and it makes it so easy. I cannot tell you that this year at tax time and the last few years really have been like oh yeah, hey, oh, it's April. What do you need from me for the taxes? Do you need anything specific? Because she also does our personal taxes as well as my business taxes. 

09:07 And so in reality, like we barely have to do anything except send her the paperwork that we get and boom, she's done, I mean, and it's so stress free, I don't ever have to worry, she's got a good handle as to where I am. The other thing is that she's got a good handle as to where I am at any given point during the year, like how am I doing profit wise, how am I doing compared to last year? And she can generate reports and so she can really keep me up to date on what's happening in my business. And then I can say, all right, maybe I need to cut back here or I need to invest more here, and so it's really so helpful. And for me then she is the one person I guess you would say on my team that handles pretty much everything. But let's talk about creating a team. Who do you feel is necessary to have on a team to set yourself up for financial success in your business? 

09:56 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I think this is a situation where you can expect to grow as you go. So I would say the first person to add into your financial team, your money team, is a CPA or some sort of accountant who is going to be helping you specifically when it comes to your taxes. But you made a really good point because you have an ongoing relationship with your accountant and for me in the past I would only go to my tax person when it was time to do my taxes once a year. 

10:27 But if you can plan to have an ongoing relationship and I also have my accountant team on retainer so they know where I am throughout the course of the year we have quarterly meetings where they give me quarterly reports on where's the profit, what is my potential tax liability as of that time of the year, as of that quarter. So, looking past just April 15th and saying, okay, this is a relationship that I'm going to have with a person ongoing For me. I didn't realize that in the beginning and that's something that I've more recently figured out. So I would say to bosses out there make sure that the relationship that you have with your accountant is not a once a year relationship. 

11:11 This needs to be an ongoing relationship throughout the course of the year, because then they can help you with tax planning and if you're forecasting for what's happening in the future, then you won't feel so shocked. I've been there. You won't feel so shocked when it's time to write that check or maybe you get a refund. 

11:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean hallelujah if you do Absolutely, and you know what else too is that a lot of times I'm shocked by the state of California and taxes. But you know, that's just a whole other issue that has nothing to do with my lack of preparation for it. But anyways, the other thing too depending on the type of business, if you have a DBA or you know an LLC or an S-corp which I do I also have to pay myself, and so I have to do that on a regular basis, and so she takes care of that as well. 

11:57 For me, she took care of the registering of it, and anytime I get a letter from the IRS or from and which happens a lot with this S-Corp because, they're either keeping me up to date on the newest things that are happening or maybe, for whatever reason from two years ago, they always seem to find, like you owe us $1.30. And I'm like, really, like you couldn't tell me that like $1.30. And the funny thing is is that my accountant has always been so. On top of it, she's like, no, actually, no, we paid that and so she will take care of all of that for me. I'll just have to like scan the paperwork that gets sent to me directly because my business is here at this address, and then I'll say, ok, what do I need to do? And she literally will say, ok, here we need to go to the IRS and we need to file this or do that, and it's more than just what you owe. 

12:42 I'm talking about all the paperwork that needs to be filed for running an S-Corp for me in the state of California and as well, as she pays me so that, again, I'm not surprised at the end of the year and as a matter of fact, I've not been surprised really. I've been surprised when I actually got more refund than I thought, which is great, but I've never been like, oh God, I have to pay money, which always makes my stomach twist and knots, because we've planned so well. And a lot of times she's up on the laws, right, because that's what she does, right. This is why I'm like why try to do it yourself? She's up on all the laws and so she'll say okay, so this year or now they've introduced something new where you can expense so much of your mileage or so much of your medical expenses, and so she's up on all those things, and that way we can take full advantage, because who wants to pay more taxes if you don't have to? That's all I have to say. 

13:35 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Exactly, and it's not even just about taxes as well. You go back to what you're talking about being an S-corp. I didn't know when it was the right time for me to be an S-corp. And so getting that information, if you can find in your accountant, your CPA, whomever you're working with, find someone who has the heart of a teacher. Dave Ramsey says that. And find somebody who can help educate you, because I wasn't trying to work with someone who just I handed things over. 

14:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, especially your financial data. I mean that is personal and sensitive right and it's got to be a. I think you have to have a special relationship with your accountant. 

14:13 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) To be honest, yeah, and personally I'm curious because I love money and numbers and talking about this and also I love my business. I love what I do and profit is a huge part of my business, or at least even the income, the money that's coming in, is a huge part of my business. So I want to understand it. Sure, I want someone who can teach me how to think about things, what I need to know going forward, that informs what decisions that I make, what conferences am I going to budget for? How am I paying myself? All of those things as part of an education, so that person isn't just telling you what to do. You are working with them and then you can direct them with your business goals and ideas and they can help support them with your business goals and ideas and they can help support you with what they know. 

14:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Which I love. 

14:56 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) It's a huge part of the money team and for me. You said that your accountant and bookkeeper are one and the same. Mine are two completely separate people. 

15:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, okay. 

15:04 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Okay, so the accountant does just the taxes and tax planning which we have our quarterly meeting, and then the bookkeeper is a completely separate person who does work at the accountant's office and they do my monthly profit and loss reports and send that to me Any day-to-day. They have access to my QuickBooks so they're seeing everything that I'm seeing basically. So they're kind of a different point of contact and I appreciate the separation because my bookkeeper is an expert in the bookkeeping aspect. So if I have questions I go to that person, if I have questions about taxes I go to this person. I like that separation but it doesn't have to be that way, it just happens to be that way. 

15:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, no, and I agree, I feel like mine is a very unique case because she did our taxes before, but she always did her taxes. First I didn't have her as my ongoing accountant forever. I used to just go to her once a year and then I realized we developed a relationship and I realized I was like God, I hate entering, I hate having to do this every month. She goes. Well, I can do it for you. And I was like oh, yes, please. 

16:08 So I think also, what's wonderful is isn't it nice that now we have things that like, especially in our business, our income comes in electronically and that can be filtered right into, so I don't have to manually like oh, I wrote a check, I don't have to manually enter it into QuickBooks like I had to do 10 years ago, 15 years ago, right, oh, I have a checkbook. Who writes checks anymore? I mean, I still have a checkbook and I do have to write checks every once in a while, but I mean, gosh, it's so nice that if I get a client payment that comes in via PayPal and I think it could be a whole separate other episode was what are your methods of payment? Because you got to make it easy right and what's important to know about that. But PayPal, Stripe, Wix, backend payments, QuickBooks allows payments, so I have lots of different banks 

16:57 right. These are considered banks, right. Paypal's considered a bank, stripe's considered a bank, and so the fact that QuickBooks can integrate these in automatically it doesn't do it perfectly, but the fact is is if I get something that comes into my PayPal, simultaneously, it is fused into my online QuickBooks account, which is nice, so I don't have to enter things in and again, like I don't, but she does, and she'll make sure that it's categorized properly, because sometimes it tries to automatically categorize and it doesn't work right, but she's on top of the categories and making sure that. Then I know, oh gosh, I'm spending a whole lot of money on subscriptions or whatever. That In a lot of ways because the manual method was tedious. 

17:40 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) It's super tedious. And imagine throwing into that someone pays you personally instead of paying your business. How much that like throws a wrench in the whole bookkeeping plans and everything else, which is why it is important to start with the separation of business and personal accounts. It's enough, you know, just the bookkeeping itself for your business is enough. Then adding in additional things to have to add and subtract, and forgot that I have this card. I use my credit card for everything personal business. It makes it really difficult down the line, especially as you grow your business. So, yeah, it's great to have everything electronically, it's great to be able to be paid in multiple different bank accounts or different accounts, but keeping it all under the umbrella of your business, separate from you personally, is really, I would say, like the baseline. 

18:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I think the simpler the better. But then again, for me and anybody that knows me, I have multiple departments of my business, or multiple businesses really. I'm not just Ann Gengu's, I'm not just VO Boss that's one of my brands and then I'm also Ann Gengu's of Voice Productions and I'm also VO Peeps, and so I've got really kind of three different streams of business that come in. And you know, of course I'm always looking for more streams of income. And so you know, of course I'm always looking for more streams of income. And so you know, I think if you can keep it simple, I'll take income any way you can throw it at me, but for my accountant I've got to make sure that it's organized and easy. So the more that I diversify my business and again I'm thinking of diversifying yet again for another brand, just because I like to keep it interesting. So I've got another brand coming up, but I'll discuss that later. Got another brand coming up, but I'll discuss that later and so I want to try to make it as simple as possible for my accountant but yet still allow clients to pay me in a number of different ways. 

19:26 I will make mention that I had my one business account, which I had to, actually had to change over to a new business account, and the reason why is because I changed my name. I originally was a DBA under and speak and then when I went and I created the S Corp, I became Ann Genguza Voice Production, just changed the name. But because I did that, all of a sudden it became like a thing with my bank that said, hey, who's this? Ann Genguza Voice Production. So because I didn't have the two registered at once, I didn't go back in DBA and add it in. They registered at once. I didn't go back and DBA and add it in. 

20:04 They then said my business account was not valid under the name and speak. So I had to open up a new business account. And so it amazed me just how tied in that one business account was to everything that I did, to my PayPal, to my Stripe, to my website here, pay me. Everything would go on my Venmo, all my Bank of America was tied into that account. Or my cards, my debit cards, were all tied into that one business account, and transitioning it over became like oof. That's an event. As a matter of fact, I still haven't completely transitioned over and completely closed the old account, so I still have money coming into two accounts. Now it's even more important that I have a team or I have people really watching both accounts. 

20:44 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Oh yeah for sure your new business is being treated as a new business, even though it's not. 

20:50 It's the same business under a different name. 

20:52 But that kind of tells you why it's so important to really start and plan it, to create almost the foundation for how you're going to be separating your accounts, the names, how you're getting paid, what's being paid in taxes, who's going to be your team to oversee all of that. Really setting up the structural foundation of the financial components of your business how that's run is really important. The unfortunate thing is it really is tedious and time-consuming when you're in the process that you're in. But you only have to do it once and you learn the process so that you know what to do in the future. I just recently purchased a rental house in my home state of Texas and I was speaking to my accountant about like I've never done this before, what do I do, and she said oh well, you just treat it like you treat your other business. And for me, having the experience of doing this with my business my voiceover business has actually taught me what I can do. To copy paste the principle the idea, so once you get this. 

21:54 Once you understand how you're working your business and creating the structure for your business and the team that you need to help you, you can actually take that knowledge and just copy and paste it to whatever the next thing or the next industry is, which is really pretty great. 

22:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. So, in addition to, let's say, your bookkeeper and your accountant that does taxes, is there any other member of your team or anything else that you can recommend for bosses? And also I'm sure the bosses are like oh my God, I'm not even making money at voiceover, how am I going to afford? Right, I want to address that as well. 

22:28 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Right. So, like I said, this is a grow as you go situation. I did not start by having a CPA and a bookkeeper, and you know the other members of my team, which I'll talk about in a second. So I would say, start with what do you need in the moment. If what you need in the moment is an accountant, which I would say everybody's got to pay taxes, so I would start there is having an accountant. Maybe it's not somebody that you have on retainer, but it is someone that you can maybe check in with once or twice a year outside of tax time, so that you can make sure that you are educated on what you need to be doing to prepare yourself for tax time. I would start there if you can, and then, if you can, grow to having that person be more of a person that you work with on an ongoing basis. That will definitely help you as you grow. Bookkeeping is something that I think you should understand how to do on your own. 

23:24 Oh, I agree, I think you should educate yourself first, you should definitely educate yourself, but eventually it's something that you might want to outsource to someone else. For me, my metric is do I like doing it? Am I good at doing it? If the answer to both of those things is no, I will find someone I like that. That is their gift. 

23:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Shop around. I mean, it's got to be somebody you trust. Again, your financial life is, I think, very personal and people want to be very secure about it. So it does take a special relationship, I think, with a person that you trust, with your numbers and your bank accounts. 

23:59 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) And you might need to, yeah, shop around. You might need to work with multiple people. 

24:08 The CPA that I'm with now is not the CPA I was with two years ago, and so this is still a relatively new relationship that she and I that we're cultivating, even with this bookkeeper. So there's a lot to learn, but you need to learn about it from a person who, like I said, has that heart of a teacher who wants to help educate you. That's how I would take it, and that's actually what I did was at first, I was working with someone who was just doing taxes and it was up to me and I was clearly not up for the job of bookkeeping, which is why I had those three weeks of panic in late March early. 

24:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) April. 

24:43 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) But you can grow as you go and find the people who can help educate you. Now I also have I think we talked about this in our past episode but I have an assistant who for the day-to-day applications in my business making sure invoices are sent, making sure they are paid, making sure they're marked as paid, not only in QuickBooks, which she and I do together, but also making sure that there are no outstanding invoices like that kind of day-to-day thing. 

25:12 Some people have a bookkeeper do it, I do it with my assistant and, to give her credit, she's really the one who's like more on that day-to-day in terms of data entry and things like that. Obviously, it's something that not every VO boss is going to have an assistant at whatever stage in their business. It took me a while to get to that point, but I have found it helpful because then it's like one less thing that I'm doing in terms of the day-to-day touch points. That I'm doing in terms of the day-to-day touch points. And then, finally, I work with a financial advisor, because I wanted to work with someone who could help me understand my finances as a whole as a business owner and personally, and what's great is that I will have quarterly meetings with the financial advisor, the bookkeeper, the CPA and myself. 

26:00 we are all on a big like money call quarterly. 

26:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And. 

26:03 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I have monthly meetings with my financial advisor about my personal goals with money and also, you know, with the business, and she can give me feedback. Like one of the things she said to me was hey, if you don't understand something in these meetings, I would love to see you show a little bit more courage and ask if you don't understand, because while I say yeah, I have the heart of a teacher. 

26:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sometimes I don't even know what to ask, and so I just you shake your head and go okay, uh-huh yeah sometimes you're just like okay, yeah. I get it uh-huh and I'm like I have no idea. I have no idea where they're going with that yeah. 

26:38 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) But it's totally okay, even as the boss, the VO boss, to not understand, and that's why you're relying on these people. 

26:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. 

26:53 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) But really, truly like lean into your curiosity and understand, because these people that you're working with like I said, the ones I'm working with now, I wasn't working with two years ago. You may work with a new team at some point, and so you want to go in with a level of armed with the knowledge about how your business is run and what your goals are for your business, so that you can direct your team instead of them telling you what to do, because you are the boss, absolutely, and what a wonderful note to end on. 

27:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, you are the boss and so, yeah, you need to educate yourself so that you can direct these people with your financial aspect of your business, which is so very important and so very close to our hearts as we run our successful businesses. So I manifest that, danielle, thank you so much. I could go on and on and on. Now I just thought like a hundred other questions which I'm going to ask you in our next episodes. But, bosses, stay tuned for this brand new series called Boss Money Talks with Danielle Fanville. I am so, so happy you were here today, danielle. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and knowledge. Bosses, I'm giving a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at ipdtlcom. All right, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye, thanks, y'all. 

28:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.