This episode is a deep dive into character acting with the esteemed Anna Garduño, a voiceover artist and coach. The BOSSES share their invaluable insights on mastering the art of engagement in voice acting. Anne and Anna emphasize the importance of enthusiasm and authenticity, and use examples from industry legends to discuss how to breathe life into every line by using script analysis and character creation. The BOSSES also dispel the myth that success in animation voice acting is about being a celebrity, emphasizing that unique and authentic acting choices are what leads to booking success.

00:02 - Jen Keefe (Ad) Hi Anne, this is Jen Keefe from Real Women's Work Podcast. I just wanted to come on and say thank you, thank you, thank you for the series you're doing on AI and voice. I've listened to VO Boss Podcast for a few years now and it's always been informative and helpful, and not only is this series not an exception to that, but it is just the cherry on top. It has been so comforting and helpful to learn about this industry and I just thank you for taking all of the time you must have taken to research and understand, to know what questions to ask so that we're all better informed. It is just awesome, awesome, awesome. I feel excited and confident going forward into the future in the VO industry, all because of this series that you're doing. So, thank you, into the future in the VO industry, all because of this series that you're doing. 

00:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So thank you, hey, how's it going? Bosses Anne Ganguzza here. Elevate your voiceover game with our VIPeeps membership. With VIP membership, you can access our extensive library of over 350 hours of pre-recorded workshops. Whether you're interested in commercials, promos, character animation, audioos, character animation audiobooks, video games, corporate narration, audio description or dubbing, our workshops cover it all. Plus, as a VIPeeps member, you'll enjoy a 15% discount on current workshops and complimentary free monthly workshops to further develop your skills. Join VIPeeps today at vopeepscom and take your voiceover career to new heights. 

01:31 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

01:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here today with very special guest. I'm so excited, Anna Garduno. Anna, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you. 

02:04 - Anna Garduno (Guest) I was completely thrilled when you asked me because the truth is it's been a bit of a goal, a little career goal. To please get me on with the boss. 

02:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I love it, oh my gosh. Well, bosses out there. For those of you that are not familiar with Anna, Anna is a boss. I was just saying this before you came out of the womb. 

02:20 A boss, Hilarious you came out of the womb a boss, but recorded her first radio spot when you were 15 years old, shot your first TV job at 17, and currently teaches classes for VO, commercials, animation, promos, narrations and games, and has been nominated Best Voice Over Teacher two years in a row by the readers of Backstagecom. And I wore my Teach, love and Inspire shirt just for you today, Anna. I love it Again. I love the cougar aspect it's a little bit of that sexy? 

02:52 - Anna Garduno (Guest) come on, make it happen. 

02:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) fabulous, you got to add that little bit of flair to it. But, gosh, anybody that knows me knows how much I love teaching. It's so important. It is who I think. I was born to be a teacher and I love talking to other teachers, such as yourself and bosses. So the combination teacher boss love it, absolutely love it. So thanks, first of all, for being here. I know you've got a busy schedule and you know what's interesting. Another fact that you wrote in your bio is that your students have booked over a million dollars in jobs and continue to thrive, which is such a great. I love that you have a number. 

03:29 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Well, I imagine that yours have too, and absolutely because I'm sure your students every week say hey, I booked this. Hey, I booked this. 

03:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, I booked this. They do, thankfully. Yes, I'm grateful for that. And when? 

03:40 - Anna Garduno (Guest) you really think about it when you've been teaching for years, as you and I both have, because I started keeping track, really, and I was actually like, oh well, this is exciting and encouraging. I know you're such an encouraging teacher and there's so many cynics out there and I like to be encouraging. Come from joy, Come from possibility. 

03:58 I believe in that too, you know it's so important and I think when people see that they go. Oh, because once in a while I hear people say does anyone really make money in voiceover? And I try not to laugh. Yeah, there's a reason, it's a global industry. So, yes, get that negative interject out of your head Absolutely and go forward. 

04:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know what's so very interesting. Now I'm going to tell you. I was in Pilates this morning and there was a substitute that came in and she was teaching. I'm all about teaching, she was teaching, but she was teaching with a very like kind of monotone sort of and this, and then next we'll put our left toe over our right ear while simultaneously rotating our hip. The whole class, I mean, we're talking 45 minutes of no emotion, and I understand that she was trying to maybe put us in a Zen mode, right, but it was. 

04:46 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Pilates Maybe sleepy, not meditation. 

04:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And she was really good. Like technically she was really good. But she was shouting out all these instructions and I was listening so hard because her voice was so like even keel, with no like real I would call it elevating the teaching moments. So I was listening so hard, I was exhausted, mentally, okay, and physically. But at the very end, right after this, I had decided, like literally 10 minutes into it, I don't like this class, I don't like this teacher. She's not like. I don't feel an emotion, I don't feel encouragement, I don't feel anything. And when she was done she said oh my God, you guys did so good. And then I immediately loved her and I thought why. You know what I mean. So it really made me reflect on being a teacher for my students and also for the whole e-learning genre. And anybody knows I'm like a broken record, like you have to be everyone's favorite teacher. 

05:36 You do, you just do Not just if you teach, but if you're doing e-learning, and so you've got to bring that emotion and that point of view, which I consider and let's have a discussion on this I consider that to be the frosting on the cake, that's the top element when you are there as an actor, right, that is what you're bringing to the copy, no matter what genre you're in. 

05:55 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Oh, absolutely. And you bring up such an important point because this I know exactly what you mean. I've had teachers exercise teachers like that also, and I think one of the most challenging things in our industry right now, in whatever genre and I'm sure you've come across this, but correct me if I'm wrong where people say we want it natural, we want it real, yeah, yeah. And actors unfortunately misinterpret that and think, oh, passive, yes, oh, my god, that's casual, so it sounds like you have this passive teacher right now, nobody's passive in life. 

06:24 We speak for a reason. We have a lot of musicality in our voice. Even if we're calm and relaxing, there's an intention behind it, even if it's the poppy reed. 

06:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm just saying I'm just saying the poppy reed has dynamics to it. Oh my God, so much If you were to score that reed and really try to copy it. 

06:40 - Anna Garduno (Guest) She goes up, she goes down, she takes pauses. There's all of this musicality. It's not a sleep, and so you bring up a really good point. You have to be engaged with who you're talking to and then it's engaging and it brings people along. Voice work is communication, obviously, but I find too that people get so quiet Sometimes they're disconnected from their breath and not to be too focused about it. But your breath is literally like your life force. So I'm not saying yell, but be connected, and that's why my little company is called Voice Forward, like send your voice forward. You want to connect through the microphone, through whatever, to that other person. You don't want your energy to go here and hi. 

07:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm halfway to you. 

07:20 - Anna Garduno (Guest) And then you stop. You don't want that. 

07:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And it's so interesting. I think about it as an older, more mature woman, about communication, right. I mean today everybody's texting right, and it's the communication is changing. But I also feel that for us as voice actors right, our voice is so, so important, and especially in this world of technology and digital everything and synthetic voices right, technology and digital everything and synthetic voices right I think it's more important than ever that our voices really keep that engagement, keep that human aspect of emotion and point of view, because that's what makes us interesting. 

07:54 And, honestly, when I choose what I'm going to listen to on a day-to-day basis, honestly it has to be interesting to me and, I think, right for your listener. When you're being engaging and you're behind the mic reading a commercial whatever you're doing a commercial, e-learning corporate you have to connect with that listener to get their attention. Otherwise, I mean, it's always self-serving. Because why do I listen to somebody? Well, I listen to somebody because they've got something that I need right. Either they're educating me or they're entertaining me, right, and hopefully both at the same time. Those are the best teachers and that would be great. So I need to have a reason to listen. And so if you're coming at it from behind the mic where you're like, no, listen to my beautiful voice, you're not connecting. 

08:38 And I think that today more than ever, we need to connect and we need to be the actor, and I know that you put in your notes that this is something that you wanted to discuss today about. How can we, as voice actors, get there? I have my methods. I stand on my soapbox all the time and say it's so important, more important than ever, to really bring that connection. Let's talk about how you have your students. How do you elevate your students to be able to do that? 

09:03 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Okay, sure, well, I have. There's a couple of things you know. We all come to this as actors. My training, my background, everything is an actor, particularly a theater actor. 

09:11 I've been blessed to work with incredible teachers through the years, primarily with Larry Moss and Patsy Rodenberg, who's you know, the premier voice Shakespeare teacher in the world and Stella Adler, who's all about script analysis right For teaching or plays and theater and film, and that's what we do, right, we get a script and then how do we communicate best? And there's two basic things that she talks about that are very rudimentary, that I like to give my students a place to start, which is when you look at text, what is your point of view about people, places, objects and events that you're talking about? Right? So that's how you start, because so often people can do sort of like hi, I'm a generic, happy read sort of like this or I'm a very generic seductive read you know whatever it is. 

09:53 So you don't want to be generic, right? So the easiest example is something like about the people I'm talking about. Let's say you have a thing where you say and it's the best ice cream from Ben and Jerry's. So many people do. And I say, well, pretend that Jerry's your absolute best friend and he's a bit of a goofball. So from Ben and Jerry, you know what? 

10:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, you know Jerry. 

10:11 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Just that. Or say you have a thing where you say so my husband came home with a new computer. Now, if the ad is about the right computer, right, then you're going to say husband, he did a great thing. Now say but the wrong, the anti-commercial, so my husband came home with a new computer. 

10:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What is your point of view? 

10:29 - Anna Garduno (Guest) about the husband and about the new computer. I mean, it's so basic. And then also, where you are is who you are is a big way to connect to a script too. And are you a CEO talking to another CEO about finance? Or are you that reassuring financial advisor for someone who's really nervous making their first investment? 

10:48 Because you can have the exact same text but depending on who you're talking to and I'd like to think like what are you wearing? Really helps me personally. There's a million ways in, but I know if I'm playing a character on TV or something or movie that's like in a full-on business suit, I'm going to stand differently, I'm going to present differently. 

11:06 My tone of voice is going to be different, whereas if I'm playing, like you know, the hippie chick from Laurel Canyon which I mentioned, who I am, it's going to be a whole different vibe, a whole different thing. So these are two very simple things that you can look at text right away and circle oh wait, here's the event, here's the object. Or in an animation example, I have a piece of copy I like to work on where someone's putting together a potion you know like to get revenge on somebody, and one of the lines is my potion will be ready and one of the lines is one more lizard leg and my potion will be ready. And so often people will go one more lizard leg and my potion will be ready, right? So I would say, you know, the people who wrote this copy, whatever it is, are often the people hiring you, right? Which wasn't always the case so often, right? So if you can make their text pop out just a little bit, because they could have said anything, they could have said one more batling, one more toad head, they could have said anything, but they said lizard leg. 

11:57 And I always joke with my students. They got that approved. You know, disney approved lizard leg. They think they're going to get a bonus at the end of the year for coming up with lizard leg and plus, it's funny, with the two L's, you know lizard leg and the G. So instead of just saying one more lizard leg and my thing is ready, how about you take the number one and it's like you're thinking about it, right, and you go one more and you're looking at your stuff in your mind. 

12:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Lizard leg. Lizard leg. 

12:23 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Exactly so. It's specifically a lizard leg. So it's really simple and it's what we do in life when we talk about you know, I got these new glasses that I love. I got these new glasses. You know what is your point of view, and so that's the basic thing that I do with people all the time how do you feel about what you're talking about? Not moody, how do you feel, but literally. 

12:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. How do you feel it's so important? And how you feel changes and can evolve from the start of your sentence to the end of your sentence can absolutely evolve and it can evolve throughout the script. So I feel like what you're really talking about is, first of all, we need to assess the script, right. We need to assess what's the purpose. The script, right, we need to assess what's the purpose. Why are we saying these words? Right? Who are we saying them to? And again, changing who we're saying them to can make all the difference in the world. 

13:11 And what I like to also say is that, like, especially in corporate like, no, you're not talking to your best friend. I need you to be engaging, but Sally could give a crap about SAP. Sally doesn't even know what SAP does or who they are or what they make, right, right? So don't talk to Sally because it's not relevant to Sally, right? And so that whole conversational talk to your best friend. Yes, they may put that in specs, but in reality, you need to talk to the person that's going to benefit from listening to the context of the script, right? So what's the purpose? Are you trying to sell a product? Are you trying to explain how it works, you know, and who is it that needs to listen to that? 

13:47 And I had a discussion with La the other day, la Lapidez and we were talking about there's always stakes, right, there's always stakes in the script, and so you've got to know what those stakes are as an actor, right, I mean, we are actors. It is not enough to just read that. And I love how you did the melody in the head about the lizard One more lizard. And it's funny because in our head that's the melody we all hear and I swear we're all on the same wavelength, right. One more. Where does that come from? I don't know, because we read the words and we feel like, oh, initially this is where the emphasis has to go Right, but in the real world we're thinking about things. Well, every sentence is a new idea. 

14:25 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Exactly Every sentence is a new idea, and when you're reading or anything like that, and so that's another thing I say is it's a new idea and also a good example of you bring up such a good point about talking to a friend Like what does that mean? Or conversational, what does that mean? And I always say to people going back to you have different kinds of conversations. 

14:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Every day. 

14:38 - Anna Garduno (Guest) We have conversations every day Exactly, and I tell my students, like, say, you get an audition for Lexus and Subaru the same day and the specs are going to be pretty similar, conversational, real, talking to a friend blah, blah, blah. But Lexus, as we know are usually kind of seductive and a little bit like this and all that. And so I'll say to one student what do you call that? Like, I always have my students come up with titles or names for different types of reads. 

15:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, what's that? 

15:02 - Anna Garduno (Guest) read yeah, and one of my students had the best thing ever. He said I call that my I've earned it guy. Is that great? 

15:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I like it. 

15:09 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Yeah, Now the I've earned it guy is right next door to what I like to call the. I know you want it, so it's the same volume, the same note of your voice right the same sound, but there's a slightly different intention. And then the Subaru, which is getting a little more rugged now, but Subaru, as you know, they always end with that love. It's what makes a Subaru. 

15:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's the family. Family You've got like dogs and kids, exactly, you know, on a picnic Soccer equipment. 

15:37 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Yeah, sauger equipment, exactly so I always call that one like the kind of the save the planet mom, yeah, yeah. And what I tell students is those styles cross different brands. So the person who does the Subaru, the save the planet, mom is going to do Kashi, seven whole grains on a mission, and Patagonia and all that. You see they're both having conversations. So I know you know this, but I find to be able to come up with names for the different types is helpful. 

16:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, and characters You've given a character to it, which is great, rather than I want this sexy read or this seductive read. You've given it a character which I think gives it more definition. 

16:13 And I think when you're analyzing, too many of us run into our studios and like, oh, I got it and they play to that melody in their head. Right, they play the melody in the head that probably 90% of everybody that is going in their studios doing the same darn thing. And we've all talked about what do casting directors want? They want to be able to hear something different than 200 of the same kind of melodies right, and so if you're coming up with a different melody or a different story, that's immediately oh cause for, yeah, I'm shortlisting. 

16:44 I can tell you me as a casting director, every time I hear somebody that enters into a script and I can tell they've got a story, I'm like shortlist Because there's an actor, there's an actor, there's an actor. 

16:53 - Anna Garduno (Guest) And it's about having that point where you bring up a really good point, too, about how do you make your reads stand out, and At that point you bring up a really good point too, about how do you make your reads stand out. And I'm very big on playing with pace, particularly in the first sentence. 

17:02 Yeah, yeah, yeah, Almost any first sentence you can play with pace, because often a sentence as you were saying, looking at the text has two ideas in it. So like to use an animation example. I have a piece of copy I love to work with. The first sentence is hey, you know what's the best thing, about being a jellyfish, so that's it right. 

17:18 So everyone kind of usually does it that way, like enthusiastic surfer jellyfish. Now, if you just play with pace and you go, you know what's the best thing about being a jellyfish yeah, yeah, yeah, like all of a sudden he's mischievous, or the other way you do it fast. 

17:34 You know what's the best thing about being a jellyfish. So already that first sentence is engaging yes, so little things like that. No, I wanted to ask you, anne, I found and you probably come across this too a couple months ago I started working with students on animation who were getting this spec which I thought was hilarious where they would say we want it like you're in a movie, but louder. And my poor students would be like what does that mean? We want in a movie? And I like, when casting people not you, of course, but some people you know don't act, just do it like you're in a movie. 

18:06 - Jen Keefe (Ad) Okay. 

18:06 - Anna Garduno (Guest) You're. You're acting in a movie, just so you know. So I was sitting there, I go. What do they mean? And I it was what we talked about earlier it means to not be passive, you're told do less, so they've been getting reads. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're told do less. So they've been getting reads, obviously, from people being very quiet, very hello. I have a mic right here. 

18:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes hi, yes hi. 

18:22 - Anna Garduno (Guest) I'm going to read like this yeah, exactly, and it's like I'm in a movie and I don't have to do anything. 

18:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And it's so boring, or you're in a movie theater where you have to be quiet. 

18:32 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Yes, exactly. So what they mean is Point of view, don't be passive. Yeah, so they were getting all these under, these de-energized voices, and of course, it's not engaging at all. 

18:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you can be quiet and have a ton of energy. I mean, it's so much about the energy, but it really has nothing to do with volume, right? The energy of the Well, I use a term. 

18:52 - Anna Garduno (Guest) I say to people you need more vocal vitality. I don't mean louder, I mean vocal vitality, and it's exactly what we're talking about. You need to have presence in that you're engaged with whoever you're talking to on the other side of that copy, because you're never just talking to yourself, ever Exactly. 

19:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, let's talk storytelling. I mean, how important is storytelling? I mean I say it all the time, like I think exhaustively, yeah, but there's storytelling in every like, everything, everything everything right? 

19:20 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Yes, absolutely. And also, you're always in the middle of a conversation, too, even if it's e-learning. You've already been talking to somebody about something and now we just happen to pick up the conversation in the middle. 

19:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I love that. I'm always telling people you don't start a script with once upon a time because, right, like cause, that means you just, oh, I thought of it and I'm going to go into a monologue, right, Right. And that means you're not going to engage. 

19:41 If you're going to go in you're like that friend that doesn't shut up. You're like, hi, it's all about me, me, me, me, me, me, and I'm just going to talk and I'm not going to allow you to interact at all with me. And I didn't even hear what you said. 

19:55 - Anna Garduno (Guest) It was tiring for the listener. 

19:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, exactly, and so you do have to start in the middle, and that's why I'm always saying that moment before right. 

20:04 - Anna Garduno (Guest) It's so important, which is your basic acting thing. Right, like what happened before you came in the door, the scene, what happened, like how was the drive over? 

20:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, and I'm like no, no, no, no, no. I hear the events that are happening. Tell me what the other person said and then how you responded. And I don't want you to respond with the first word. I want you to respond with maybe something that's rolling into the first word of the script. 

20:30 Yeah, give yourself a lead in, because then it doesn't sound like the note like once and we all start on that same pitch. Right, I broke it down technically into musical notes, but still, you don't need to start like, hi, I'm just starting to talk. 

20:45 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Yeah, you know no, of course not, but see, the moment before is really important. I imagine you do this with your students too. One of the benefits of doing these auditions at home and working at home is you can try a lot of things, which is and you can also give yourself a lead in, sometimes so that you are literally starting in. You say absolutely. 

21:04 Don't stress about that credit card. Let me look. Let me look at the credit card. Like I have a piece of copy that starts out Wait, did you book the bartender? $200 last week. Like that's a good sentence, actually, but how much better is it if you imagine that your friend's upset crying. They're freaking out, Exactly. Listen, let me see you grab it. You go, okay, let me look at this for a minute. Wait, did you? $200? Which really means like, how drunk were you, Dear God? 

21:30 - Jen Keefe (Ad) what was that about? 

21:32 - Anna Garduno (Guest) And it's just taking that extra moment to put yourself in this situation Absolutely. And then, because you do it at home, you can do that lead in and cut it out. And that's one of the benefits, I think, of doing these auditions at home Because, as you know, in the in-person auditions which are starting up again thank God a little bit you usually get one shot and you can't do that lead in ahead of time. 

21:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, exactly so. We've talked about the moment before, which, again, I think is so important. We've talked about storytelling. What other things would you say are important for a voice actor to know today in order to get noticed and stand out? 

22:06 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Okay, well, this is such a basic thing. It's going to sound so silly, but it's very important to do some homework. We'll just talk right now about two areas, about commercial and animation, but this is true for everything. Actually, listen to what is actually on the air to hear what the styles are, what the tones are and everything. I have students and I'm sure you do too Some, you know, women students who've gone off and raised children and they're coming back 20 years later, right, and everything is like it's in the eighties or the nineties. It's so amped up. I'm like, okay, have you actually heard a commercial? And I'm shocked at how people say, well, no, I stream. 

22:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't watch TV. Yeah, I don't watch TV. What? 

22:46 - Anna Garduno (Guest) What does it matter with you? And what's so nice is you can that's research, yes, and also watch some different animation too, because, as we know, that natural voice, right, which is sort of the BoJack Horseman model, and then there's, you know, slightly more character-y things like in Spongebob, and then there's super cartoony, right. I am shocked at how many people do not actually pay attention to cartoons and they'll say, well, there's so many. How do I start? I go okay, watch movie trailers. 

23:12 Watch the movie trailer, for inside out it's three minutes. There's five women and five men. Watch that and take notes. Don't just watch it passively. Write down what are the archetypes, what are the things, and then you put a check mark. So I'm very surprised at how people don't do their research. And I also tell my students it doesn't take long. If you spend half an hour a week listening to commercials in a very specific way and half an hour a week to different animation, listen to 10 minutes of three different shows and take notes on them, you do that for a month solid. Oh my God. 

23:43 You have such a better foundation than everybody else. Oh my gosh, it's a very basic thing It'd be hard to audition for a play if you'd never seen a play Right. It would be hard to audition for an hour-long TV show if you hadn't watched hour-long TV in 20 years. You had no idea what those shows are like, because they're different than what they used to be. 

24:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And before you run into audition for no Matter what, can you take five to ten minutes to just look up the brand yes and look and see what's their website look? Like what is the product that you're talking about actually do. Do you know the product? Are you familiar with it? What is their demographic? Who are they trying to sell to? I mean, there's so much backstory. 

24:22 Again, it's almost like you're doing character study right, but you're doing it about the brand because the brand is looking for a voice. Even if there are casting specs, right, you can always go to a brand and find out, like, who are they selling to and how are they trying to do that by just literally a Google search. Absolutely, and I don't see why people don't take the time to do that. I mean it could take literally five to ten minutes before you rush in and everybody's like I've got to get the audition in. I've got to get the audition in, but do the homework first. Spend five or ten minutes. I don't think that you're going to miss the timing. I mean, I know people are like I've got to get it in first. 

24:52 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Also, it's going to be much more efficient. Right, you take five, ten minutes, so like, oh, what is this new? Obviously, I don't know anything about tech stuff. So what is this new tech thing about? I need to find out what it is, and then you can do almost anything in three to four. Takes Almost you know after that. 

25:06 So it's not going to take you that long. But I think one of the things I recommend my students do is so that you're not always in a rush right, trying to do the audition and get all this stuff in is set aside a specific time, wednesday morning from 10 to 1030. I'm going to look at ispottv and I'm going to watch 10 car ads in a row and I'm going to write down the differences between them. So if you just set a specific time, then it's part of your ongoing kind of homework and then when you get that audition for Lexus or Jeep you've already seen it and you know what it is. 

25:40 And you're like oh, or you can say oh, this is like the absolute vodka ad I just watched. Okay, and that's what that is. So you're not playing catch up. Yeah, and it's the only area of acting I've ever come across and where you can get better at it really fast, because if you have a good ear, you can hear, like students where I've done this myself right, I think I'm sounding very sexy, yeah yeah, and I just sound sad, sad and depressed. 

26:07 I'm like, okay, that's bad. Or I'm trying to be enthusiastic and I sound crazy, like I've had 15 cups of coffee, so you can hear it and you can adjust it immediately and that's so satisfying. I mean, I love to do dialects, as I know you do, and you know dialects takes years to really be super great at them. And this is another area about the voiceover world is you can move forward very quickly if you are just consistent, consistent with your study consistent with your class? 

26:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, absolutely. 

26:42 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Consistent instead of stopping and starting all the time. 

26:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. I love that and I try to tell my students you know, look, it's better for you to do one or two scripts a day because I give homework right. And I say it's better for you to do one or two scripts a day because I give homework right. Yeah, and I say it's better for you to do one or two scripts a day, then wait until the night before and then do all the scripts at the same time, because then you're in the same performance mode, right. 

26:58 - Jen Keefe (Ad) You're just like, oh God, I've got to get my homework done. 

27:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I've got to get my homework done and so I'm going to listen to you. And so one of the reasons why I give homework is to hear, for me I'm vocally branding my students as well, so that we're prepping for the demo. Right, I want to hear them talking about Toyota or I want to hear them talking about Subaru or some other brand and I want to say, okay, I hear that, you know, and for me it's just a creative thing where I'm like, yes, I can hear that she sounds great with that brand, and so now we're going to focus on a spot on our demo for that brand. And so I give lots of homework because, number one, you should be able to practice what we're doing in between our sessions. Otherwise, like you want me to just live direct you once a week, that just, I mean, I don't feel that you're going to progress quickly. 

27:45 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Well, what you're talking about, anne, is giving them the structure and the tools to become their own best director. Exactly that's what you're talking about, and that is a gift to give to students. 

27:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thank you for calling homework being a gift. I love that. Oh, it is a gift. Yeah, I love that, and also I always say to people it's optional okay. I don't want to stress you out, yeah me too. 

28:03 - Anna Garduno (Guest) I don't want to stress you out, but you're giving them. It was a new student, they go. Well, I just need to be. You know, if I have a director or a cast member, they tell me what to do. And I said to them okay, well, what might they say? And she said, well, they would tell me to be more conversational. I said, okay, and then what would you do? Blank face, yeah, and everyone's different. Like for me to be more conversational. In general, I have to slow down and I have to bring my voice down just a little bit. 

28:31 Other people have to go faster. 

28:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Typically people pitch up when they're reading. That's just a, I think, human nature kind of thing, but you're right. And then sometimes they just go fast through everything or they go too slow through everything and then they sound too consistent. Consistency is like. I think I can't be stagnant in my business. That's the death of my business, and I think consistency might be the death of a voice actor. Because you can't be consistent in any sound right, because then it sounds robotic, it sounds with no point of view, there's no right, it's rhythm, and point of view is everything. 

29:05 - Anna Garduno (Guest) I think Point of view drives the rhythm and sometimes the rhythm is like there's one style that sort of is kind of the opposite of all we're talking about a little bit is I call it a cello read Is that Eternity by Calvin Klein? 

29:16 - Jen Keefe (Ad) Right when they just say do less, do less, do less. 

29:18 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Right, hi, yes Hi, I'm not going up or down, but that's its own rhythm. 

29:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So that's why I call it a cello. 

29:24 - Anna Garduno (Guest) So if somebody plays one note on a cell, that's what it is. Yeah, it's like that. So even that is a very specific point of view. 

29:32 - Jen Keefe (Ad) Yeah, absolutely. 

29:35 - Anna Garduno (Guest) And it makes it dynamic because you're right, if you're just consistent all the way through the same way, it's so boring, yeah, you just stop. It loses any kind of dynamic. 

29:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It loses point of view too Correct, it really does. 

29:44 - Jen Keefe (Ad) Oh, absolutely yeah. 

29:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's interesting how musical it can be and then yet I don't want my students to approach it necessarily musically. I want them to approach it like an actor, because if you can do that, then ultimately things just fall into place. When you're responding to something, you're acting is reacting. When you're reacting right and you're reacting with the lines in the script, it falls together naturally. It really does. 

30:08 And so the rhythm and the melody just fall together, and the emphasis on the words. It just falls together Like it's an easy thing for me to say. However, somehow, when people get words in front of their face, yes, because I was taught to read aloud, you know, in grade school, and I was like yes, me, I love to read, I'm a good reader, and let me hello, I'm going to read my text now, and so you have no time to put a point of view on when you're just reading from left to right, you don't know what the story is. There's no history there, there's no. Who are you talking to? Well, I'm just reading to the air, right? 

30:40 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Well, I think you bring up also a really good point too. The approach isn't after the voice will follow the musicality, all that will follow. And something that's a particular challenge is since when we're reading or working, a lot of times we have headphones, so we're hearing ourselves while we're talking and there's a big temptation to be the director, the producer, all at once while you're literally saying your words absolutely you have to not do that. 

31:02 So I'm a big advocate just put one headphone on, because you don't ever hear what you actually sound like through your head or your headphones. It's close because you're listening through the speaker of your head, right? So that's that's. The other thing, too, is I tell students don't judge your read like. Listen to it back first before you start making adjustments, or you stop in the middle or you change it or something. 

31:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that's good, I like that. Wait until you're done. I have the advice, which is interesting I get the one ear on, one ear off. For some people yeah, for some people, because for me, when I was initially starting, I had a lot of like noises coming out and I was evaluating my booth and so I couldn't tell if there was noise and also being directed right. So when you're directed, you kind of have to have your headphones on. 

31:42 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Oh no, absolutely Right, You've got to be able to hear the direction. 

31:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I always say your headphones are amplifying your sound, yes, and so if you get used to not listening to your sound and you're into the storytelling, it won't matter if you have headphones on or not. But that's a hard thing for people to do sometimes, because I know when I first started hi, oh, I love this. It's amplifying my voice, you know that kind of thing and it just gets to be a little egocentrical there for a minute. But I don't think any voice acting really should be egocentrical at all. It's something you are gifting right to the person who is listening to you and that is a gift you give to them. It's not about you listening to yourself. 

32:20 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Well, even though you're just doing one side of the conversation. You're in fact interacting. Yeah, you are always interacting, and that's when they say talking to a friend. That's what they're trying to say is you're talking about this paper towel is going to soak up that spilled wine. Because you just came to your friend and said, oh my God, I spilled red wine all over my couch, I don't know what to do. You say, oh well, actually this thing is going to help you. You're interacting. Right, it's not about you at all. And it is a challenge sometimes not to fall either, to fall in love with your own voice or to decide. 

32:49 You hate everything about it which is also not helpful. 

32:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's so true. So you have to not judge. 

32:54 - Anna Garduno (Guest) You have to wait and listen back and then see do I sound like I'm engaging with someone? Because you're always talking, like you say, for a reason. You know, even in animation stuff. You know I was talking to someone the other day about BoJack Horseman because that's such a common spec. 

33:10 You know they say we want to like bojack horsemen, not rugrats and things like that. And I had somebody once I think was at sad foundation, wasn't a regular student said, and they said, well, you know, will arnett, they just hired him because you know he's just will arnett all the time. And you know what I said. I said, okay, I see why you're saying that, but my guess is a lot of people would like to play bojack. I bet chris rock would have loved it, paul rudd would have loved it. 

33:28 Paul Rudd would have loved it. Owen Wilson would have loved it. There's a lot of comedic Seth Rogen, there's a lot of guys, and Willa and I get it, not because of the sound of his voice, but because he created a character that was engaging. So don't self-sabotage by saying, oh, it's a star. That's all they do. Don't diminish their work and don't diminish your possibility to do work as good, absolutely. 

33:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I think that that's really interesting. Oh, I love that. I love that. Gosh, Anna, I could talk all day to you. 

33:58 - Jen Keefe (Ad) Well, that's why we're going to get together and have cocktails and dinner. 

34:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There we go Well, there we go Well. I have to say thank you. So so much. Thank you so much and I know that it's been a pleasure having you on. Now you've got a special offer for boss listeners. I do Special offer. 

34:12 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Talk to us about that a little bit so for boss listeners. You get 10% off any classes, 10% off any private coaching or things like that, and also 10% off any demos you may want to work on or refresh or anything like that. Just say that you're a fan of the boss lady. The queen herself Love it and I'm very happy to do that. And you can reach me through. 

34:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) My direct email is AnnaVoiceForward at gmailcom, and just say hey, heard you on the boss, and we'll put that link in the show notes as well to get to your website. And so thank you so much, anna, for being with us today, and I look forward to working with you more in the future. For sure I want to have you as a VO Peeps guest director too, so coming up, so I'll be sending you that schedule. Yay, I would love that. So perfect. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, and so a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. See you next week, bye, thank you. 

35:20 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOBosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPD TL. 

In our next episode. of the BOSS Money Talks series, the BOSSES talk about how to set and achieve financial goals like a pro by transforming daunting yearly objectives into achievable, bite-sized milestones. Anne and Danielle guide you through the process of reverse engineering your target income, allowing you to create efficient tracking systems for auditions, marketing, and follow-ups. This ultimately can help you to manage the unpredictable nature of freelance work with confidence. The BOSSES share personal stories and insights on analyzing past successes, pinpointing what truly works, and making informed adjustments to your approach, fostering a mindset of steady, systematic growth. 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hello amazing bosses and voiceover talents out there. Hey, amazing voiceover talents. Do you ever wish boss marketing was as fun as it was being behind the mic? Well, check out my Vio Boss Blast. It's designed to automate and make your marketing simpler. You'll benefit from your very own target marketed list, tailored to meet your goals and your brand the VO Boss Blast. Find out more at voboss com. 

00:32 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, nne Ganguza. 

00:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Money Talk Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so excited to bring back to the show Danielle Famble. Danielle, yay, hey, thanks for having me back. How are you? I'm so excited to talk money with you this morning. 

01:09 - Danielle Famble (Host) I'm good. I'm always up for a money conversation, so very happy to be here Cool. 

01:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you know why? Because I actually just started taking and you know I've taken these courses before. But you know I always love to take goal setting classes because even though you kind of know, like I've set goals before, I do it every year, I do it periodically. I think that it's important to just kind of get your motivation and inspiration going and I thought it would be a great time to talk about setting financial goals and how we can successfully reach them as entrepreneurs. 

01:41 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, I think that's really important because in business you always talk about goals like business goals, or the point of a business is to make a profit, and so financial goals are kind of tied into that. So it is good to be intentional about your goals, even if you don't hit that goal. Absolutely being able to track where your progress is is really important, so I love that you're doing that. It's something I try to do every year. I think it usually happens for most people around like the end of the year sort of a New Year's resolution, but doing it in the middle of the year is really pretty great. I love that. 

02:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I think one thing that I'm learning that is important is to set realistic goals. I mean, it's all well and good to want a million dollars, but I want to be able to set a realistic financial goal for myself and I think how important is that actual number, like I know you just said, if you don't make it? But what if we create a more realistic goal? And then, I don't know, maybe reverse engineer, is that a thing? 

02:39 - Danielle Famble (Host) Is that something that you do? Yeah, totally. I read this book, the 12 Week Year, a couple of months ago. It's a really good book and it really is about like breaking your year down into almost like quarters, really breaking them down into 12-week years themselves so that the goal doesn't take the length of time like a full year for example. 

02:58 And then you're able to break it down further from those 12 weeks to individual weeks. So that is sort of reverse engineering your goals. So, for example, if your goal was to make, let's say, $10,000 in the 12 week time, then you can go and say, okay, well, what do I need to do incrementally to get myself there? Is it going to be marketing more? Is it going to be increasing the number of auditions that you do? Is it going to be figuring out which genre that you want to go into, because maybe a certain genre may get you to that 10,000 quicker? I think actually, reverse engineering your goal makes it so that the goal itself is not so big and all you're working toward they're little sprints. So you're working toward the next milestone in that bigger goal sphere. 

03:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I think there's something to be said for breaking it down into smaller parts, because I think number one of the fact that our business is so volatile, right, we don't know where our next job is coming from. And that is a completely different mindset and pathway to making money than maybe some people are used to if they come out of the corporate world. Right, because there's a set amount of money we're getting paid every so often. Now, all of a sudden, we've got to be everybody and everything and we have to go out, generate the leads, follow up on those leads, get the job, do the job and then charge the money and then collect the money. So there's all these steps and we don't necessarily know where the second job is coming or the next job is coming. 

04:26 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah. 

04:27 And I think also, you can think about creating systems, right. So a lot of the things that you just said are repeatable processes. So if you can create a system where it's I'm going to audition for X number of jobs, that's not guaranteeing that you will book all of those jobs, but it's sort of a numbers game, right? Sometimes, especially with commercials, for example, it's sort of a numbers game. So if you can increase the inputs, then the output may be more bookings. Perhaps. Same thing with like leads If you are sending out maybe a few more emails or phone calls, then that potentially could mean that you're going to possibly book more jobs. 

05:07 So how can you create systems or templates for each individual section of that process that you're reverse engineering for your goal? So then you don't have to get stuck in the weeds when it's time to go to the next step. And the next step Did I follow up this person? Did I do this? Did I send out this contract? Did I sign this thing? Making sure that you have a template or a system for it really can help. 

05:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that and I think that it's important to make sure that you're dedicating the time for those steps to happen, because it's all well and good when you're like I've got the job right and the money's coming in and that's something I can account for. But yet now there's all these unknowns in the equation, and especially when we're talking numbers like I like numbers to be concrete right, I like to say I've got this coming in, you know, I've got this going out. But then there's that uncertainty of like okay, I don't have that job yet, so I need to put that system in place in order to try to make the goal that I want to achieve. And again, I think it's important for bosses out there to again set realistic goals. But again, there's nothing wrong with saying, hey, I'm currently making X amount of dollars per month, or I like to look at it on a monthly basis as opposed to, I mean, yearly too. 

06:19 I'm like, yes, it's great to have a six-figure, seven-figure, whatever income you're looking for, but then break that down into months and then those months back into weeks, because one week maybe I won't make any money, right? And I have to make sure that that doesn't necessarily stop me from trying to reach my goal or create a mental point where I'm just like, oh well, I can't do this right. I think goal setting a lot of what I'm learning, as well well as writing it down, putting it concrete on the paper here's what I want. And then you're talking about setting up the template and the steps to get there, going back and reviewing those steps and making sure that if you didn't achieve a step, that's okay, because maybe next week you can achieve that step even more so, so that you're not getting upset or depressed and then just giving up on that goal. 

07:04 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, I also really love what you said about like dedicating the time to it. One of the things that I implemented in my own life, in my own business, about a year or two ago and, admittedly, I've sort of slipped in it it's something this conversation is reminding me to go back and do is implementing office hours or implementing the time dedicated to make the system run. 

07:25 So if it's implementing an hour every single day, or Monday, wednesday, friday, for example, to make sure that you've got your auditions, or to follow up with clients that have not paid, or to do whatever it is in your system that needs to be done. Really setting the time aside to actually do it will ensure that your system does actually work, because it If you kind of sometimes arbitrarily go through the process of trying to hit your financial goals then you may not actually be consistent in hitting those goals. 

07:55 Another thing that, when you were talking about it, I was thinking about is, yes, thinking about things in a monthly 30-day window. I think that's great because it's that short sprint like we were talking about earlier. 

08:06 One thing is, maybe consider a percentage Like maybe I want to increase my revenue by 1% or 2%, so you can actually check and see did I do that? Is there a way to say I did hit this goal or I didn't hit this goal? Because a lot of times with goals they can be vague, it feels good but you can't really check and see did I actually hit it or not? 

08:27 That's the thing about numbers. Is it this number or no? You know if you hit it or not. That's the thing about numbers, is it this number or no. 

08:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know if you hit it or you didn't. Right, right, it's very black and white. You're right, I love that checking and being accountable and that also has an effect again, and it's so funny because there's hardcore numbers, right, there's here's what I made last month, here's what I made the month before, and what did it take to get to those numbers? Going back and being accountable and seeing, was there a system that worked? And again, if something's not working or you're having a slow month, again I want to reiterate that manifestation of abundance and faith, right, faith that you can achieve the goal right. And so if you can kind of manifest and see that, have that vision, see it's written down and then see the systems that were put in place that help to make that work, when you maybe have a week where nothing happened or a couple of weeks and you start to doubt yourself, go back and take a look at those accomplishments. 

09:21 Go look at what you've achieved and the systems you use to achieve them and see if maybe you didn't implement that in quite the same way or maybe there's a way to take what you did that was successful and increase it. Maybe I would say, reach out to that repeat client, right? Or go ahead and maybe increase if you did a hundred auditions and you're not really seeing anything, well, maybe. What type of auditions did you do? Were they all commercial auditions, were they corporate auditions, were they e-learning auditions and find out which one's booked. And then maybe, if you're like I seem to be booking a lot of e-learning lately, then maybe increase your percentage of e-learning auditions. 

10:01 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, and the only way to know everything, what you just said is to make sure that you're tracking. 

10:06 If you're not tracking that information, the dollars are in the data and if you are not tracking your data, you may not be able to track your dollars as specifically, to be able to get to the next step, that next 1%, because if you increase your revenue by 1% every month over the course of the year, it's exponential growth of your business. And then you can go back and look and say, okay, look at what I did, how can I repeat those steps to get even greater returns the next year? Or to do that in a different genre that maybe you don't work in, because you know that what you did works. How can you take what you know and move it to a different genre? 

10:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. You said if you increase your revenue 1%, right every month, which gives you 12% over a course of a year. And I just want to bring that back to bosses by saying most jobs don't give a 12% increase like at all anymore. As a matter of my husband just got like an 8%, which was incredible. I mean that took years and I remember back in the day when I was working in education I got a 3% every year and that was great. So, 1%, bosses don't think, oh, that's nothing. And I can tell Danielle that you are a money girl because you know, oh, just 1% and that's realistic, right. And so that's something like oh, I want to increase my revenue 100% or 50% or even 20% is I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying that you want to take a look at how can I like literally systematically increase that income by 1%, 2%, and that's incredible. 

11:36 - Danielle Famble (Host) And then, year after year after year, the compounding of that incremental increase is really where, like, it'll make your eyes pop because it is amazing and it can be life changing. 

11:47 - Intro (Announcement) Oh yeah. And so when you say like reverse engineering your goal. 

11:51 - Danielle Famble (Host) That's really where it is. It's not in these big leaps and bounds. It's how can you grow? Just a little bit more, and a little bit more, and a little bit more. And then when you look back over time because this takes time when you look back over time you can say, oh, wow, like look what this did, look what I grew, look what we've made. It's really amazing. It's like any financial investment. It's really amazing. 

12:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's like any financial investment. It's funny because you know, back in the day when I did work for a company, I remember I invested some spare change that I had like $500 in a stock in the company that I worked for, and then I just didn't look at it. 

12:24 I just let it sit there for about 20 years. And I'll tell you what over time, when you look at a stock, if it's a decent stock and it's not like a company that's in and out and out of business, a company that's been around for a long time, I mean that grew over time even though, like, one month it went way down, another month it went way up, and then it was like, and if you looked at those numbers and you got crazy about it, it would make you insane, and so I just left it alone. I said you know what that was? Money, that it's kind of like. 

12:47 I feel like if I go to Vegas and I'm going to spend money on gambling which I'm not a big gambler, but I always say, well, that's my spare change, right, and then I just don't worry about it. When it's done, it's done. So I invested that money and then I didn't look at it until 20 years later, when I went to buy a house, and then all of a sudden I cashed in on it and well, over the years and of course I didn't like completely ignored it I did look at it like on a yearly basis, but it wasn't like every day. I was not looking at it and freaking out if I wasn't getting a return on my investment. And so I think maybe if you kind of look at your business like that right, step back from it and look a little more long term and you can't do that unless you've been tracking it right and see how you grow, like that tiny little growth spurt over time makes a humongous difference. 

13:38 - Danielle Famble (Host) Absolutely. 

13:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So then let me ask you how, like in terms of I know we talked about this a little bit in other podcast episodes so in terms of tracking this right, what's the best resource for tracking this? I mean, I know we talked about, like I use QuickBooks so I can do a profit and loss statement. I can generate any length of time. I could say give me a monthly profit and loss statement. What other things would you suggest to track? Because that's just the financial part of it. How are we tracking like marketing, how are we tracking those types of things? 

14:09 - Danielle Famble (Host) I think that can be done in several different ways. When I first started my business, I was tracking everything in an Excel spreadsheet down to every job that I booked, the details about that job, how much I was paid, how much do I need to set aside for taxes, and keeping that set aside separated by month. That's one way to do it Currently. Now I have a Notion database where I actually will put in every single audition that I did and it turns into a pipeline. So it's. Did the audition turn into a booking? Did I get an avail check for that even though I didn't book it? I want to know the details about that. What were the specs in that audition? So it's like a whole sales funnel. 

14:46 - Intro (Announcement) It's an entire sales funnel, I love that An entire sales funnel. 

14:49 - Danielle Famble (Host) That's what I'm doing, that's amazing. 

14:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm again sort of a nerd. Yeah, no, no, no, I'm right there with you. 

14:54 - Danielle Famble (Host) That's wonderful, but I want to know everything about the jobs that are coming my way and then the jobs that turn into actual bookings, because there's information in that data for me and it's important for me to take a look and see. I even want to see maybe I auditioned for something a year ago and the rate was X. 

15:13 - Intro (Announcement) What is it today? 

15:14 - Danielle Famble (Host) I want to know what is the market overall doing? So there are ways to look at it, like that, crms that you can take a look at and put your data in. 

15:23 However you do it, do it and that's where your data is and then have a way to go back and take a look at and put your data in. However you do, it, do it and that's where your data is and then have a way to go back and take a look and take the time to go back and look at the data and see comprehensively, maybe by quarter how did I do? At the end of the year how was this year and what did we learn and what can we do a little differently? I love that. 

15:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I think tracking your goals not just here's what I want to make right but tracking your business and tracking the progress of your business will really help you to get a great view of your business over time, and so it will help you to make more educated decisions as well. Right? So not only are we setting financial goals and we're manifesting right, and we're having faith in the fact that we can achieve these goals right, and we're creating small little pieces, small little segments of those goals that are achievable right, and then we can look back on our success and be encouraged and gain confidence from that success. And again, when you do that, that can just exponentially grow your business and grow your success. And to me, you've got to take the time to track that. So how much time. For me sometimes it's like, oh God, I've been auditioning all day, I've been coaching all day, I've been doing this. I don't have time to track this. What is your method of tracking? Do you track on a day-to-day basis or weekly? Or what do you do? 

16:40 - Danielle Famble (Host) I track, like I said, with the inputs in my sales funnel or my system. I do that every single day, really like inputting it as it's happening and how much time does that take? 

16:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Do you know what I mean? Are you spending like 10 minutes, half an hour, an hour? 

16:54 - Danielle Famble (Host) Every input is maybe a minute or two, so it adds up to a few minutes a day, maybe an hour a day. 

17:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow, think of that boss. It's just not even an hour a day right, yeah, not even I day. 

17:05 Wow, think of that boss. It's just not even an hour a day, right? Yeah, not even. I say that for my students too, who want to pursue this as a career is that you need to spend, you need to dedicate a certain amount of time per day on your business, and that tells your brain, it tells your body, it tells your being that you are serious about this business and you are manifesting along the way as you do that. And plus, I think it's a critical part of again that tracking system that helps us to understand where are we, where do we want to go and how are we going to achieve that? Absolutely, yeah, fantastic, wow, I love that. 

17:33 So what sort of goals would you say for, let's say, a beginning talent? What sort of financial goals should they have? Because I know there's a lot of people that are like quick, they're like I want to make the money now, right, and I know, as a coach, sometimes that is something that just doesn't happen right away. I mean, they're not making thousands upon thousands of dollars right away, and I think that's where most people get the most discouraged right in the beginning of their career. So, in terms of financial goals, what would you say are realistic financial goals for new talent that are starting out. 

18:06 - Danielle Famble (Host) I think the first thing that a new talent should take a look at is where are they currently at, to look realistically and then I think really like the percentage that maybe 1% or 2% maybe not per month but per quarter might be a really great target to hit. So where are you at currently and how can you do just a little bit better per quarter to get you to that 4% per year? And I would also take a look and see things outside of the returns. But what are you doing today? Is it that you need to coach with someone else? Do you need to invest in yourself and your business? Do you need to learn how to use your DAW a little bit better for editing your auditions? Those kinds of things can really help with your bottom line because once you have a little bit more skills in your business, then you're able to use those skills to generate income. But I think, looking at it from where you're currently at, then looking at maybe a one or 2% increase from where you currently are, is incredibly realistic. Yeah. 

19:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and I think also, when you're starting out, you have to be realistic in terms of, like, financial success, what you consider to be financial success and what you're considering to be investment in growing the business, because there are lots of businesses that need to take that time to grow. They need to invest in their product, they need to invest in their marketing, they need to invest in their storefront, right, which? These are all things like what is your product? It's your voice, right? Well, that's your coaching. It's your demos. What is your storefront? That is your website, what is your marketing? All of these things. Have you taken a marketing course? Do you have a mail service? That kind of a thing. 

19:49 So, what are you investing? And a lot of it might take more investing than you're getting back in the beginning, and longer time it takes, longer it does, it does. And so I feel as though your financial goals at this point need to be realistic thinking. I have some people saying, well, I want to make $5,000 a month and they're just getting out in voiceover, and I'm not saying that you can't do that, but I'm just saying that until you really start to grow and make those investments. 

20:08 I think marketing is a big, big part of that, because you can be a new talent and you can be amazing, but if nobody knows that you exist, right, they can't pay you and so you can't meet those financial goals. And so you've got to really get out there in front of people, and that requires your marketing efforts either direct mails, creating content out there. The quality of your auditions is marketing Exactly, exactly the quality of your studio out there. So there's a lot of things that will go into this in order to help meet your financial goals. And the better you are, the more skilled you are right, the better your product is right, the better you're able to market that product. Then I think the more skilled you are right. The better your product is right, the better you're able to market that product, then I think, the more able you're going to be to meet those financial goals in the end. 

20:51 Yeah, absolutely so, for, let's say, talent that have been out there for a while. Is it realistic, do you think, for them to think, oh okay, well, I made six figures last year, I'm going to make six figures this year, year, I'm going to make six figures this year, or I want to increase that by 12% this year. How realistic do you feel that is? 

21:08 - Danielle Famble (Host) Oh yeah, I think that's incredibly realistic. I think that really taking a look at where you currently are, or what happened last year versus what you're attempting to do this year, I think that's incredibly realistic and you can go back and you can look at your systems and say, all right, this is what I did. What of it worked? You can look at your systems and say, all right, this is what I did. What have it worked? What things do I need to improve? What maybe should I invest in my business to help get me to that 12% or more return? I think that's incredibly realistic. Also, it does mean that you need to look at the genres that you're working in, yeah, and the market the market that you're working in as well. 

21:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, so important. Yeah, don't leave out the fact that you could be. You know, I want to do animation or I want to do character work, whatever that is Right, and you can be an amazing character animation, you know, have a great demo, have a great product out there. However, you've got to figure out where's the market, right? Where's the market at this time? Are there trends in that market? Am I able to reach that market and how am I able to get in front of the eyeballs that can hire for that market and what are they willing to pay Like? That's the part where I think most people they forget. Oh, so now there's a money, right, there's a value put on that on the market. Not that you're not worth a million dollars. 

22:23 However, there's a term for it, danielle, and I don't know if I know what it is, but there is a rate out there that is the going rate, right, it's a competitive rate for people that want voices for animation or people that need a commercial voice. There are rates all over the place. Of course, we always say go to the GVAA rate guide, right. But I mean, sometimes the market can't pay that rate, right. That particular client just can't pay it. They don't have the budget for it, and sometimes that's the truth, right? A lot of times we want to say, oh no, I can't do that job. I know what I'm worth and I can't do it for that rate and that's OK, that's your business decision. 

22:58 But don't dismiss that sometimes clients literally don't have it in their budget to pay that value, and then that's a decision that you make, right? Whether you want to accept that, to do that maybe below your rate or not. And I'm not saying you should do that for everything. But there is a value. There is a value that the companies put on it and they will have budgets. I mean, people have budgets for a reason. So you have to be considerate of the company and not just be angry at the company if they can't meet your budget. 

23:28 You know, I think a lot of times we tend to so quickly dismiss and say, well, they're not paying me what I'm worth, and so therefore and yeah, I say, if that's your decision, that gives you time to go find somebody who will pay you what you're worth. But sometimes understand that it is possible that the company doesn't have the budget at this moment Doesn't mean that they won't have the budget in the future, or that you can't work on that in the future. So yeah, just a thought Wow, good stuff, danielle, wow. 

23:54 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, that's a really good discussion. I think that talking about goals is incredibly important, not just about the financial goals, but the inputs to your goals as well, because that can just be general business goals, life goals. Once you learn how to do this in one aspect of your life, you can really move it to other aspects of your life. Oh yeah absolutely, absolutely. 

24:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right. Bosses Love this conversation. Danielle Can't wait for our next one. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network and make money like bosses like Danielle and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and go out there and let's set some financial goals and meet them. We will see you guys next week. Bye, bye. 

24:38 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere reflect on their time at the Mid-Atlantic Voice Over Conference (MAVO) and show listeners how to align your conference choices with professional objectives and comfort zones. The BOSSES talk about embracing the vibrant energy of smaller conferences, where meaningful connections and enriching learning experiences await. Anne and Tom share personal stories that capture the joy of stepping out of the studio and into creative spaces filled with camaraderie and collaboration. Whether you're new to the scene or a seasoned pro, this episode is filled with invaluable strategies to enhance your career and make every conference moment count. 00:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, real Boss, Tom Dheere and myself have a very special deal for you guys. Tom, tell them what it is. 

00:08 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) All right, anne. If you use the promo code BOSSVOSS that's B-O-S-S as in V-O-BOSS and V-O-S as in V-O-STRATEGIST, and the number 24, so that's BOSSVOS24, you get 10% off my 30-minute check-in, my one-hour strategy session and my one-hour diagnostic. 

00:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you'll get 10% off all coaching packages and demos on the Anne Ganguzza website. So, guys, black Friday starts now and runs till the end of the year. So everybody, get yourselves on that site and get yourself a discount. BOSS, VOS, BOSS, VOS 24. 

00:43 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) BOSS, VOS 24. BOSS. VOS, BOSS, VOS, 24. BOSS, VOS, 24.

00:47 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

01:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Boss Series with the one and only Tom Dheere. Tom Dheere, yay, hi, anne, tom, I get to see you like. I just saw you at MAVO, which was so wonderful. We have to just meet each other at conferences, I feel like there needs to be a change to that. 

01:27 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) You live in LA, I live in New York City, so you know we have some logistical challenges. 

01:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know, but I feel like we should be seeing each other more, because what a great time. 

01:36 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well then, they need to produce more conferences so we can hang out more, right. 

01:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I don't know. Well, I don't know. There might be some people that disagree with that, I'm not sure. Some people are saying that there's more conferences than are needed in this industry. But you know, I like people to have a choice. 

01:51 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, and different conferences meet different needs. Some of them are different sizes, like Mavo is very boutique, like under 100 people, as opposed to VO Atlanta, which is wonderful in its own way, but that has 1,000 people and that can freak out a lot of people. And then one voice is like somewhere in the middle with attendance and there's different focuses. Some have a bilingual track or a Spanish track, some have an audio book track and some have a children's track, like Mavo did. So you just got to find one that's right for you, based on your budget, your professional needs and just your social comfort level. 

02:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure, let's do a recap about Mavo, then, because it was my first year at Mavo, oh, and I truly, truly enjoyed it. It was, it was my first year speaking at Mavo and I loved it. It was small, it was intimate, and she had a boatload of great speakers there, and I really felt as though she worked her tail off to make it a nice experience for everyone. 

02:50 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I agree, this was my fourth 2018, 2020, 22, which was virtual, and then 2024 now. So, like most conference presenters, they like to have people come every other year so they can mix up the speakers and the content, and I always have a lovely time there. Val Kelly, who's the producer of the Mid-Atlantic Voice Over Conference MAVO for short always does a lovely job and, like you said, she puts together a fantastic group of speakers. Like, considering the size of the conference, it's like, quality-wise, a disproportionate quality. Like the quality of speakers, considering the size of the conference, it's just such really high-end. 

03:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh my gosh, Really high-end people. It was incredible high-end speakers, especially because you and I were there. Well, no, I'm sorry, I love it. I think her theme in the beginning was more character-based animation, because that's what she did, and she mentioned to me this is the first time she was going to have somebody coming in that was really talking about things other than character animation, and, of course, I did a general session on corporate, and then I did two mastery sessions which actually were oversold, which I loved on e-learning, and the other one was on acting for narration oversold, which I loved on e-learning, and the other one was on acting for narration, and I just loved the response of the attendees that were there to my classes, and so I had a great time while I was there, but I worked hard, and I will say, though, that the speakers that she had were amazing. 

04:18 You were there, I mean, jessica Blue was there, everett Oliver was there I mean I'm just going on and I met some people that I had never met before in person, which was there. Everett Oliver was there. I mean I'm just going on, and I met some people that I had never met before in person, which was great Casting directors, andy Ross. I mean, I just had such a good time meeting new people and now I've got new resources. 

04:35 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, I had a fantastic time too. What did I teach? I did a breakout session or I don't remember what the name of it was. The term, but it was make taxes less. Taxing had a great turnout, with people trying to figure out how to file their taxes. As a voice actor, that was fun. 

04:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that's important. 

04:49 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) It is important. I'm noticing a slight uptick in people going to conferences and wanting to get a little bit more understanding of the business side of voiceover, which and considering that's what I do as the VO strategist obviously I'm thrilled that people are expressing more of an interest to complement all the great performance training that they want to get and that they know that they need. But I also did one on smaller voiceover market mastery how to, if you live in a suburban or rural area, how you can thrive both online and in person. 

05:15 But the one that was extra interesting is and we talked about this before we started recording is that I was the moderator for the AI panel. 

05:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah. 

05:24 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) And you were in the audience and you participated I was. It was very, very interesting and we had the board of the National Association of Voice Actors, or NAVA, as the panelists president, vice president, director of operations and a member at large and the conversation was very interesting. What I thought was interesting is that I read the room at the beginning, if you remember, and I said who here doesn't know the first thing about AI as it pertains to voiceover? And not a single person raised their hand. Now, maybe they were shy and didn't want to admit they didn't know anything, but I think a lot of them are now that it's been a few years that the voiceover industry has just become aware at all that AI has been permeating the industry long before we understood what was going on. People are making a point to educate themselves, and you have been a huge contributor to that with your VO Boss series. When you interviewed, was it 30 or 35 companies At? 

06:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) least At least 35 CEOs of companies, of AI companies Some are of companies that don't exist anymore and some that do. So, yeah, and that was back. I think I started two and a half years, maybe three years ago, doing that and talking about how do you create a voice, are you ethical, are you, you know, how are you utilizing the voices and how do you feel about voice actors and treating them fairly and giving them compensation for that voice? And so it was something that I really have been on a journey to do, to research and educate myself, because I think, I mean, we're both educators, tom, and it's so important for voice actors to educate themselves about the industry, about the business and how they can run their business to coexist with disruptive technologies like AI. 

07:04 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Right, right Were you in the room when J Michael Collins did his presentation. 

07:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I actually was finishing up a mastery session and he was talking about trends in commercial, I believe, or trends in performance, since the new administration or the upcoming administration change. 

07:22 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, that's why I brought it up, because I sat in on that and took a page of notes. He did a fascinating history of how you can line up who's president of the United States with trends in commercials and tone and what affects us as casting specifications. 

07:39 So he made a lot of interesting points about those who voted for the winner and what kind of reads are maybe called for, and those who did not vote for the winner of the election and the type of reads that are going to resonate with them for the next few years. So I bring this up, bosses, because this is part of the value that you get out of attending any voiceover conference, much less going to MAVO. It's education, it's networking, it's the opportunity to meet great coaches like Anne, or get to know a casting director or someone like that. But also industry trends what's going on in the industry right now and how you need to adjust or adapt your understanding of the voiceover industry and how you can adjust your business model to adapt to what may change in the coming years. 

08:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) One thing that I like to think about in regards to trends is trends. You have to keep your eyes and ears open and assess what you feel is happening in the industry, as well as what your clients are saying. And so, while I would never say this is the trend in black and white, this is what it's going to be or this is what's calling for, and then say that's it, I'm only going to practice that trend. I say be the actor, because when you're the actor, you can be versatile and you can cover any trend and so just know which ones seem to be resonating along with culture and the current status and the current flow of advertising. But also be that actor. Take that coaching, training that allows you to be the actor that can be versatile, that can follow direction, no matter what they want, because there can be trends all over the place. 

09:19 So, for example, after the Super Bowl last year, there was the Poppy read. Right, there was that read. I was not asked for that poppy read very often, even though that was spouted as the latest and greatest big trend. So, again, my customers had their own specific direction for what I do. Also, it depends on genre right, genres that you're working on, and I feel that if you are a well-versed actor, you're gonna be able to adjust yourself to any trend. However, it is important that we all educate ourselves on what's current and relevant out there, because you probably don't want to be out there doing that old announcer read, although that's one of the reads that could potentially come back, or it can be a read that one of your clients wants, and a lot of times we get the gig with one read and then they direct us to something completely different, and so keeping your ears out and eyes out for trends is great, but also that age old advice that sage, wise advice to just get your acting skills in order, I think is absolutely still relevant. 

10:20 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Oh, 100, 100%. And this is why you want to have good coaches that can help guide you through the voiceover industry, teach you the basics of voiceover, that are the evergreen content, like breath control or microphone techniques, script interpretation, and then obviously layering that with the genre training, like what you do with your e-learning and your narration training. And this is where the advantage of going to a voiceover conference is, for both attendees and for speakers and presenters like you and me, is that we can have conversations with speakers, other coaches, other casting directors. What's going on, what trends are you noticing, how have you had to adjust your teaching or coaching style to adapt with what's going on in the industry and how we can prepare for what's going on next. 

11:06 And if there's one thing I noticed is that, yes, you are technically J Michael Collins' competitor and he is technically Everett Oliver's competitor and he is technically Nancy Wolfson's competitor. But like the level of camaraderie and the very from what I've noticed over many years free-flowing exchange of information. Well, you know the old thing the rising tide lifts all boats. So we're all happy to exchange information, Like if I go to the same conference that a Mark Scott does or a Paul Schmidt does, and Paul Schmidt. He was hanging out at the bar for this conference. He wasn't an actual attendee. 

11:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) He was there he was living in the. 

11:41 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) he lives in the area, so he's like yeah, let me go hang out with my friends, and it was. It was awesome to see him. 

11:45 There was a couple of people that just showed up and just like, hey, what's going on? A couple of people that just came to hang out. We all are in these little booths talking to ourselves all the time in a vacuum and we have to build characters and connect and engage, but just to be able to stop wearing sweatpants all day, get out of the booth and just go, just hang out and get dressed up. 

12:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love getting dressed up. 

12:18 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, and look fabulous, fabulous every day, and I actually got the chance to wear a suit which I haven't done in so long. 

12:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I had costume changes, Tom. I had costume changes you know, I call them costume changes, but I love it. 

12:31 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Like you're hosting an Oscar. 

12:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I had a few of them, which is pretty cool. 

12:35 Yeah, Right, Okay, and now it's hand-wearing and a lot of it is just the energy, right, the energy at a conference and the energy especially at a smaller-sized conference too. The energy at, let's say, a larger conference can be overwhelming, right, it's great and it's exhilarating, but it can also be overwhelming and stressful For something for a much smaller venue. I really enjoyed the energy because it wasn't like we couldn't hear each other over the loud din of thousands of people. We were all a close group that kind of gathered in the restaurant slash bar area every night and ultimately had a great time talking to one another, and I absolutely love it. And we did fun, crazy things, Like I actually have a little video that will be coming out. We all had everybody say the same line and be the actors that they are, and so I literally recorded multiple people saying the same line with their drinks in hand and that should be a cute little video coming out in a few days. Everybody just had a blast. Whether you normally do that type of a thing, it was just nice to see the improv and the acting and the laughter and just so much fun hanging out after hours or after the classes are done, and typically when I'm at a conference. 

13:51 I know that for myself I don't know, Tom, if this happens to you too the more conferences I'm presenting, I'm very, very hyper-focused on my presentations because I want to make sure I'm ready and I've got the energy to teach a three or four-hour class, which some of these ended up being, and so I'm not always socializing late in the late hours because I'm like well, I got to get up early, but I noticed that none of it was overwhelming for me, so I was able to hang out and really visit with people later on in the evenings. That I typically do at larger conferences. Just because I find that there's so much noise at the bigger conferences, I get a little more stressed out quicker and I'm like well, I got to go to bed now because I got to make sure I'm up and I can do my class in the morning. I don't know what did you feel about that, Tom? 

14:35 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, I noticed the same thing because we were both at VO Atlanta this spring and, like I said, there's 1,000 attendees and probably what 50 or 60 speakers plus a couple of dozen staff. So it's an amazing, wonderful experience, but it can be a little overwhelming Canva presentations and making sure my outlines are just so and timing it a little bit to make sure I have time for Q&A and sidebars and stories and stuff like that. 

15:05 So, I found myself staying. I was at the bar for a little while. I think I turned into a pumpkin around sometime between 10.30 and 11 o'clock at night, which I think is a yeah that was me. 

15:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's a long time for me. Oh, really At home I'm usually in bed by nine, so I mean oh yeah, I'm like I'm a wimp. 

15:22 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Back in the day. I'd be at the bar until two, three, four in the morning, but I just don't have the battery power for that anymore. Also, I'm hitting the gym in the morning, so like I was in the gym, Me too. Friday, saturday morning and Sunday morning I was in the gym at 7.30. Oh. 

15:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I missed you those. I missed you those times because I was prepping for a nine o'clock class. 

15:43 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well, yeah, I didn't have any nine o'clock classes this time, so I had a little time to be able to go down. I just did like a half hour on the treadmill just to kind of get my steps in and get my circulation going, have a nice breakfast and then get some tea and make my way down. But I was wondering, Anne I'm sure there's a lot of bosses here who have never been to a conference before what would you suggest as some like voiceover conference strategies for someone that's never been to one? 

16:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Ah, yes, for me I really like to get the most out of, and I'm like, probably sometimes the worst, I'm the worst offender because I'm so busy and I'm not looking at the schedule. But I would say look at the schedule, decide ahead of time, right, what classes look good for you, and and really kind of create your schedule before you get there. It's nice you can make last minute changes, you know, once you get there, depending on, like maybe somebody says, oh no, no, no, you really have to go see this talk or this presentation or I've seen this person before and they're really great and you might make changes then. But I think, really having a plan and of course, old school, I'm either a notepad to jot things down or I like to do notes on my phone a lot in order to get things from the presentation. I know that for me, because I've lost my talent to write, tom, I mean, I don't know like, do people like I can barely sign my name these days because I'm typing so much. So a lot of times what I'll do is I'll take a picture, like a screenshot, of the presenters or the screen, if they've got a display, and then I'll just jot down notes while I'm talking in my notes on my phone, or I'll just create right a note on my phone and I'll take pictures while I'm doing it as well. So now I've got the notes and I can take pictures and then I have that across all my platforms, and so that's kind of the way that I take notes for that and I also make sure nowadays to get people's contacts. 

17:28 And, tom, I'm the old school. You probably saw my cards on the table because I purchased them for one other conference and I'm like you know what? I'm just going to leave them on the table. On the back of it I made sure that I had a QR code that basically, when you scan it, I'm right in your contacts in your phone. So it's got my name, yeah, it's got my name, my address. So it's no longer just like oh, it's a card that just has your email, your phone. It has a QR code that you can scan so that it automatically goes into contacts, and I find that that is super beneficial. Like all the contacts that I made, we basically just touched each other's phones or we called each other and then filled out information so that it went right into our contacts. Not so much exchanging cards these days, but I say always have some for backup. What about you? 

18:11 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well, for those of you who are listening to this, I just flashed my VO Strategist business card, which also has a QR code on the back. I also have I think it's hopbio, h-o-p-pbio, where you can kind of make a little mini type of website, and I have one for Tom Deere, voice actor, and I have one for VO Strategist. It's a QR code also, so people scan it and then they can see it's also linked, so it has all your contact information on there. You can even hyperlink your blog to it. So it's just kind of like everything that you are in like one little place. It's like one-stop shopping for marketing. As to note-taking, I have to let everybody know that Anne took a picture of some of my notes at a class at a workshop that she wanted to go to but she couldn't make it to, which is perfect. 

18:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yep, I absolutely did, and I love it. I mean, it's now it's in my phone so I can refer to it at any time, which is great. 

19:01 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I'll deal with your one of two things. I'll use Google Keep, which is a Google note-taking app. But what I've been doing more and more lately is that before I go to a conference and I pretty much know I mean I've got all my presentations, but then I look and see when I'm not presenting and what workshops I have time to attend and be a student of is that I'll set up in Google Drive. I'll set up a Google Doc and it'll just say, like 2014, mavo. So if you go into my Google Doc for those of you who have broken in you see I've got the year that I attend the conference and the name of the conference, so I can just see, in chronological order, every set of notes I've taken for every conference that I presented at or attended. So I'll often bring my tablet and I'll just be typing directly into the Google Drive doc that I had already set up. So when I get home it's already there. I don't have to do anything. 

19:48 But I do take pictures of screenshots, like you do pictures of slides and what I'll often do is, I'll take a picture of the slide and then I will just copy and paste that picture into that Google Drive doc. So I don't have to transpose it either. 

20:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly that way, you've got your notes and your photos. Yeah, it's all together, so it's all together. 

20:07 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) One bit of advice I will give our bosses who do attend a voiceover conference is find a note-taking buddy that looks like they're going to be presentations that you want to go to as like the primary ones you know, like if you want to go to all the ones about cartoons and video games. 

20:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Like you were my note-taking buddy, yeah. Yeah, be a note-taking buddy, you were my note-taking buddy for Jay Michael's presentation Right. 

20:33 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Because you're just like click there, you go, so like, but based on what you want to do. If you have a friend who wants to focus on business and marketing and tech and you want to focus the performance ones, they go to all the other ones and you just take notes and you just swap, yeah. 

20:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I'd like to really like give props to the business classes in the conferences, and I know because I used to teach business classes Sometimes I mean it used to be that they were the hard sell right. 

20:56 And the funny thing is is I think what people need the most is business sometimes, because it's so easy to take performance after performance after performance classes. But your performance is wonderful in your studio by yourself. If you're not selling, if you don't have the business savvy, you don't have the marketing savvy and you're not selling yourself, well then nobody's going to see your beautiful performance. So I do want to give a big push for those of you that go to conferences, give yourself I mean I know you might hate business or you might hate marketing but do yourself a favor and sign up for a marketing session so that you can understand, like, how marketing has trends have changed or new ideas. I mean you could come out with one, just one new golden nugget for how to market yourself and that can make all the difference to get you seen or in front of a casting director, or in front of a talent agent, or in front of a new client and then, boom, it's been able to grow your business. 

21:51 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well as the person who teaches all the business and marketing breakouts and workshops and mastery sessions at all of these voiceover conferences. Obviously, I have a vested interest and I want all of you to attend my classes and take my content. But Anne is 100% right attend my classes and take my content. But Anne is 100% right. There is and I've noticed it over the oh geez, 13 years or so that I've been attending and speaking at voiceover conferences is that they tend to be populated by a lot of professional students. They just keep taking performance class after performance class. They don't take any business and marketing class and they never pull the trigger. They never go for it. 

22:26 Now I can't speak to why any one of them can't or won't pull the trigger. It may be financial they can't leave their day job. It may be psychological they just have certain emotional mental blocks that are preventing them from pulling the trigger. But I say this in almost everything that I speak at is that your talent will get you your first gig with a client. Your project management skills will get you the next gig with the same client. Project management is all the stuff you have to do between the moment that the email hits your inbox and the moment that the check clears. So if you're able to use your talent to get an audition and book it, if you don't know what to do when it's time to press the red button and I'm not talking on a performance level, I'm talking on a technical and a business level you're useless as a voice actor and they're not going to come back. 

23:11 So I speak at a lot of these and there's a lot of other great business and marketing coaches that presented a lot of these. I think it's really important for you to take the time yes, if there's a certain casting director that you want to meet, if there's a certain coach you'd like to connect with to see if you'd be a good fit for getting coached for them and booking a demo, which I know Anne experiences that all the time make it a point to go to one or two business or marketing related things, because it's not even just being about a well-rounded voice actor, it's about being effective at all, because if you don't know that stuff, you're not going to get anywhere. All the best video game and cartoon coaching in the world isn't going to get you anywhere if you don't know how to demonstrate your value, to get you those casting opportunities and if you don't have the business savvy to capitalize on those opportunities, yeah, I mean, I agree, a thousand percent, a thousand percent really. 

23:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, and I've seen it conference after conference and I used to teach the business classes early, early on, before I knew Tom, I used to do like social media classes, business classes, and it was interesting because people were just so drawn to like the character and the animation classes and those performance classes and I think you really just need to have I mean, this is one of the reasons why I started the VO Boss. It was really about the business strategies for voiceover artists and really that's what this podcast was all about to hopefully help educate in the business sense of it, business and marketing sense of things, because you can have the best voice in the world but if nobody knows about it, there you sit, there you sit, wow. So some good tips and tricks, guys. I highly recommend the Mabel conference. I know Val, she just works so hard at it and it really was a lovely conference and I hope I get asked to go back next year. 

24:53 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I hope you do too, and I had a wonderful time and I always look forward to it, and hopefully I will get asked again as well. Hint, hint, val, if you're watching this. 

25:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, Val, we love you Val. So yeah, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. 

25:17 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipdtl. 

Anne Ganguzza sits down with Rolf Veldman, CEO of Voice123, for a riveting discussion on navigating pay-to-play platforms amidst the shifts brought on by disruptive technology. Anne and Rolf go in-depth on pay to plays, social media, and the opportunities and challenges that voice professionals need to navigate. They discuss the complex algorithms that dictate audition opportunities on platforms like Voice123 and the balancing act to make it fair for the different levels of subscribers. As more companies test the validity of AI and synthetic voices, Rolf discusses Voice123's strategic partnerships with specialized companies, highlighting their commitment to protecting voice actors' work through digital fingerprinting. 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey guys, Anne Ganguzza here. Imagine a voiceover journey where every step is filled with discovery and growth. That's the path I want to work on with you, through nurturing, coaching and creative demo production. Let's unveil the true potential of your voice together. It's not just about the destination, it's about the gorgeous journey getting there. Are you ready to take the first step? Connect with me at Anne Ganguzza dot com. Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, anne Ganguza, and today I am so excited to have a very special guest, Rolf Veldman, coming from the Netherlands. Rolf, it is so wonderful to have you today. 

01:07 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) I'm very happy to be here, Anne. 

01:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, for those of you that don't know Rolf, I mean probably everybody knows of you, but Rolf is absolutely a boss who enjoys turning great ideas into great businesses, and I, for one, have been following Rolf for gosh since he stepped into the CEO position, because I like to watch bosses when they work. So Rolf leads a diverse, globally remote team of achievers who are pushing the boundaries of the voiceover industry and maybe pushing the buttons of the voiceover industry too, as we all know and, yes, based in the Netherlands, where I just was, I absolutely love it there. You also like to garden because you live near a national park near the German border, which is awesome. 

01:49 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah. 

01:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, it's always nice to know those other things besides being, you know, the CEO of one of the largest online pay-to-plays that you also like to garden. I love it. 

01:59 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) No, I don't want to say it as my main hobby, but like I'm sitting here in my office but I tend to take my laptop downstairs and then, when it's sunny out, I sit in the garden dogs around me like couldn't make me happier with that. 

02:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Love it and it's so beautiful. The country is just beautiful. 

02:16 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) I don't know exactly where you are, but every part of it that I visited I just absolutely loved. 

02:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, it's tiny, You're through it in a heartbeat Right, but you're close to everything else. 

02:21 I feel so that's what's so cool about it. Well, Rolf, I know we have a little bit of time not too much time and I know that there are, as I mentioned a little bit earlier, there are two things typically that people want to know with pay-to-plays, right, they all want to know about the algorithm and they all want to know about AI. And so start me off by telling me first how, since you've come in to be at Voice123, how the industry has evolved and how Voice123 has evolved. 

02:52 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) I mean that question alone could be two hours. I guess I know right, Because a lot has changed already. I know that AI was already there from the beginning, but since we'll get to that later, I think the main difference is is in the last five to six years because I joined in 2018 the audio part of advertising has exploded. The fact that we're doing podcasts now and not radio, I mean it's open doors to kick in, but so many people are consuming content on their phone by audio more and more and more, like audiobooks have skyrocketed. So many of these industries that voice actors are part of have been growing tremendously and as part of that, also the number of people who want to be in voiceover. So it's been an explosive amount of people coming into the industry. And when new people come into the industry, that changes things all the way from how you offer your services to how relevant certain companies become. 

03:44 Like I felt the last five years, and even now, Voice on 3 is constantly at risk of being replaced. We might be here for the last 20 years, but how do we stay relevant? So our goal is always to stay at the core of what we do. In the core of what we do is we want to make sure that voice actors and their clients they build great relationships don't get in the way like that's sort of our vision of what our role is in the voiceover industry. By staying close to that, I think we're still very much a relevant player and it's still a popular place for people to find each other and do VO. 

04:11 But especially the amount of people that came in and the type of work that has changed the last couple of years has been wow. Like, just to build on that, like we have a search bar in Voice on 3 where you can see where clients type in keywords what they're looking for and you can see trends that used to last maybe six months or nine months in terms of style of voiceover or popular niche. They now change week over week. Really depends on what is hot on TikTok or Instagram. Advertisers jump on it straight away and you see that reflected in how people are getting booked on Voice on 3. Like the space, part of it has changed. 

04:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know, what's so interesting is that we talk in our industry. We're like, okay, what are people looking for? And we go to these workshops with casting directors and we say, okay, what are people looking for? But what's so interesting is that you have a really good idea of what people are looking for, and I think that voice actors sometimes we have a narrow view right of what do we need to do to. First of all, you mentioned the word relevant, which I think is so important, not just for your business, but so important for us to remain relevant and to be able to deliver products that our clients are looking for. And you have a great idea of what people are looking for. 

05:19 So, bosses, listen up. I mean, rolf is kind of the guy that has a really good idea of what trends are happening, what people are looking for in the online space and maybe just in general, right, because there are so many people now that are seeking voice talent online as opposed to going through agents. And so the people that go through agents, right, think about, in the United States, agencies and talent agents that book commercials, promos, those types of things that are broadcast. Well, you probably get pretty much. Well, you get some of that, and I'm sure that you get quite a bit of all the other non-broadcast stuff too, and that's where we as an industry right. 

05:59 We don't always know what are people looking for. People constantly ask when I'm coaching them what do people look for? What are people looking for for corporate narration? What are people looking for? People constantly ask when I'm coaching them what do people look for? What are people looking for for a corporate narration? What are people looking for for e-learning and that sort of thing? So I love that you, number one, said that you need to remain relevant, because we also, as bosses, need to do that, and also you can tell us a little bit more about trends that are happening. 

06:19 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, there's so much we can zoom in, but let me start with some fundamentals. 

06:22 That I think that people sometimes underestimate is that while maybe, as a voice actor, you are nervous because you have to audition and you have to start this relationship, on the other side is a person that's often in the same place. Most people don't know vo and most people are either creating a video or an ad and then voice over is just the other thing that they do. So so they come in with especially new clients. They come in with complete misunderstandings of how this industry works and what they're looking for is almost like handholding, and not from us but from you. Like we see that the people that are most successful on voice on the three actually spend a great deal in being very consistent in their communication, like being almost like your own customer support agent, and that you're very crystal clear in what your availability is, how you respond to these clients, because most clients are afraid of two things Bad studio quality, which is still number one problem for a lot of people who book voiceover. That there are still many, many people who record via the phone. 

07:23 And that you can stand out by just having your environment checked and being sure that you have a fair minimum on that one and again you beat out 80% of the people on places like voice on the 3 and voices in other places just by doing that. 

07:35 The other one is that first contact point, and that first contact point is all about that customer relationship and being welcoming, being helpfully trustworthy towards the other side. 

07:45 A lot of voice actors not a lot, but some voice actors come at it with a lot of distrust with the first message is the list of demands, and we see that they don't succeed so well If the first interaction is a question or a welcome. We see that just those messagings are so important on a digital space, because the difference between going online and going through an agency is if you want to work with an agent, most likely what the end client wants is an experience, the experience of doing the ad and going to a studio and look at us, we're doing the real thing, like people are just people. They go to work, they want to experience their own little piece of hollywood. That's what you get by an agent. But on casting sites there's a lot of people that have a deadline, they want to meet it and I want to make it a joyful experience. So they want to collaborate. So if you start from collaboration, you have so much of an advantage. 

08:30 Then there's two other things that I think are trends. 

08:33 The other one is the pandemic has changed or accelerated the amount of people who want to turn their content into audio. 

08:43 One of our fastest growing clients on Voice on 3 is universities and colleges, because they used to give in-class lessons, but they took what's left of the pandemic and basically turned every course into an e-learning course as well, just on the side or as a way to get back to it. So that's a fast growing segment of voiceover. And the other one is that more and more clients know that they have to stand out, but they also have to be consistent in their messaging, so they want to work exclusively with one or two voices that represents their whole brand. That used to be like Coca-Cola has a celebrity. Now, even on a midsize and lower size companies, they want to have a consistent voice and they want to work with that same person. And that means that you as a voice actor need to be more versatile. You need to not just do specializing the commercial side of it, but be available for maybe some of the in-house aspects that that company wants to do. 

09:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I like that A couple of interesting things. I like that, yeah, a lot, and one thing I've always liked about Voice123 is that you basically allow us to nurture that relationship with the client. You don't get into it, you don't do any managed sort of projects that I know of, unless that's something that you're thinking of doing or is that, yeah. 

09:50 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) So the whole fundamental aspect of Voice on the 3 is we know that we succeed if the voice actors succeed. We know that the only way to succeed as a voice actor is if you can turn a client into a returning client. 

10:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes. 

10:01 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Right. 

10:02 So, for that. We need to make it an open space Like we would love to build the perfect features for everybody to do everything on Voice on the 3, but we know that people work in their own way, so we will never make it forced to stay on Voice on the 3. People put their emails in their profile. Often the first message is this is my email, let's move over here. Or maybe you've experienced this yourself, but you can see people being contacted on LinkedIn based on an audition they did on Voice123. Oh yeah, absolutely. 

10:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I still have a client that I got on Voice123 from ages ago and I wasn't even a member, I was in between memberships and I was on the free. So I still have one client that I've retained through that relationship and I love that. You brought up how important the relationship is and nurturing the relationship and how people online are, yes, absolutely looking for an experience. You're right, there's a lot of companies out there. Well, first of all, they don't know a lot about voiceover, they don't really know how it works, and so it's up to the voice actor to really kind of handhold and take them through that process successfully, and then they have a great chance of that client returning, which is one of the ways that I've been able to stay in business for so long. 

11:07 I mean, honestly, I do a lot of things Everybody that knows me, I do this podcast, I do a bunch of other things and so I'm very fortunate that I have a lot of returning clients and that's how my business is maintained and that's an important thing these days, especially when economies shift and they go up and down, and so it's really important to have those clients that keep returning and know that there's a lot of successful people utilizing Voice123 that have been able to do that. 

11:32 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) And there's a position of strength that you have as a voice actor is that you have the word actor or artist in your name, which immediately creates awe. Like every time I talk to you or any kind of voice actor or professionals, I always feel that I'm exposed to my own incompetencies, like I cannot do what you do. You're the one in the booth, you're the one who can act. Most companies have tried this with somebody in-house and then suddenly you record. It's such a massive difference. So you, you come in as an expert, so it's okay to then guide the client in the process to a certain of course. 

12:03 Of course there's always the client, the agency, the production houses that roll out a lot of ads and a lot of videos. Those are also good relationships, but those are relationships you manage differently. That's more about being available. You let them know that, okay, I'm available. My reply time is like 10 minutes. Well, for another type of client where you can see this is the end user or the people who are actually going to make the ad themselves. That's where you are the professional. So you have to know those tiny nuances and how you portray yourself in that relationship. I think are fundamental. 

12:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I think all of this is wonderful and great, but the one thing I know that are on the boss's minds right now are so how do I book that? What would you recommend that I do? How do I get the jobs to my inbox right? And that's controlled by something called an algorithm, which is probably the one big main point of dispute on every pay-to-play, not just voice one, two, three right, like what's the algorithm? Because you're getting the jobs and then somehow there needs to be a method to distribute those jobs equally amongst your members, and then there's different membership levels. So explain a little bit about how that works. 

13:08 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah. 

13:08 So it came from a very practical problem that we basically got too big. 

13:12 So the algorithm is basically a fancy word for a decision process and it's very straightforward where a client posts a project and if it's US, english, female, like, you're still in a group, but as soon as it's male, you're no longer in the group, right. 

13:25 So there's a couple of basic requirements of who you are as a person and what your services are, and then we go into the next stage where our goal is to get the client the most relevant auditions for their project right. So what we do is we invite the first group of people, and in that first group of people are a mix of people with good performance scores and with memberships. So if you pay the highest tier, you're stepping up compared to the lowest tier. We control the highest tier, otherwise it would be a monopoly but basically it's a mix of what you pay and then there is the ranking score, as we call it, and that is based on the client's feedback, whether a client books you from a job or likes you in the process of auditioning. That's what we take back and we use the last year's worth of data for that and that makes your score fluctuate. 

14:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So it's a whole year's worth of data. So, how do you convince your client or your potential client to rate you? I guess that's a question, right, because some clients are just they're not going to bother with the rating, right? Yeah? 

14:24 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) no, that's the flaw in the system, right? Ideally, every client that comes through we tell them let us know who you work with, but, as you know, most clients don't use us that way. Only like 40% of the work goes through the auditions. The other half is a mix of what happens on our search or on landing pages that are separately, because you can also just go through our directory. 

14:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, right, right, and then they can contact separately. 

14:47 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) So all we know is from the audition, and in the past we've tried to force the client to close the project. Let us know who won or force the client to close the project Let us know who won or force the client to book a project, but all it did was scare the clients away and they don't want to use us anymore. We have to keep that open because we also want to keep the platform open, because if we make booking, Difficult. 

15:07 Yeah, if we make it too forceful for you, then we become a middleman. We don't want to be a middleman, so we have to balance the fact that we don't want to collect that much information. We have to have enough information to know that it's relevant. So there's a flaw in the system that not every client likes all the proposals. That's why voice actors can now tell us hey, I got booked through this job and that counts also to your algorithm. But yeah, it's a fundamental issue in the algorithm Over a year's worth of data. That works and I have to think in big numbers, right, because we have about 120,000 active voice actors on a platform. So for 100,000, that works. But every now and then people fall off the edge and then we have to make sure that they don't waste their money on a membership. So that's why we're constantly tweaking the algorithm to make it better. 

15:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, I was going to say. So what percentage? Or is this the percentage that changes is based on the feedback score, because I think the feedback score for most people is obviously it's the most variable, right? So when I make a decision to join Voice123, I have how many different membership tiers? I want to say eight or something, yeah, eight tiers to choose from. So do I pay you more money? And then how do I know, and you know what? I mean, how do I know which tier to pick? 

16:15 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) I know, and you know what. 

16:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean Like how do I know which tier to pick? 

16:13 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, so that's why we try to show you like in which market you're competing. One of the reasons we have the extra tiers is that we operate in every country, but like North Korea and some other sanctioned countries. So in a marketplace like the Netherlands, where I'm from, vo is not that big and we don't get a lot of jobs for Dutch people on Voice on 3, but enough and we have enough voice actors, so those people pay a lower tier In the US, which is very competitive if Voice on 3 is your only casting site that you go on, I would suggest paying a higher membership. 

16:45 If Voice on 3 is something that you have on the site or that you partly work on and you work on other casting sites as well and you have agents, I wouldn't necessarily recommend a higher membership tier because throughout the year you get enough auditions and you have to be very selective about them, and you get enough direct messages to pay for itself. 

17:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I think what most people don't think about and you just pointed it out to me actually is that because it's global and because of the availability of the different jobs that come in, right, I think a lot of people maybe I can speak for people in the US they're like well, if I pay more, I should get more opportunities and I should be able to book more, but that's not always the way, because we don't want people who our clients consistently tell us not good to pay their way to the top. Got it. 

17:29 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) But we also know, if you pay a little bit more for a membership you get very into voice on the dream. So they become very active. That's very good for us as well, because that means clients get fast additions. There's multiple aspects to it. 

17:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and this is a part that I never thought about and I'm so glad that you're bringing it up because you know, I think that with a better understanding of how Voice123 works, we can then as members of Voice123, make an educated decision as to maybe, which membership tier would be best for us and also what sort of issues you face, because there are so many variables in casting. And one thing I'm going to bring up before I let you continue is that I've always maintained that online casting companies pay-to-plays they don't have any accountability necessarily I'm not saying that about you, but I'm saying some of them don't in the fact that where did the job come from, did it get booked and who booked it? Right, and you just brought that up. I mean, you don't always know, the client doesn't always fill it out and the client is sometimes scared Well, maybe not, it's too many steps, right? They just want to be able to get in get their talent cast it Exactly. 

18:35 So you've brought up like a fundamental fact that I think a lot of people just they don't think about when they're making that quick decision and they're just saying, well, I pay all this money, I should be getting the auditions, and how am I not ranking? And it's not fair. So I love that you're bringing up all the different sides of how you cast and I think you, especially by coming on this podcast and for the amount of times that I've seen you go, I mean literally put yourself out there at the conferences so that you can explain. I have so much respect for you for that and I thank you for that, Rolf, because that helps us. Do you know what I mean? And it helps me as, look, I recommend you guys all the time to my students and so it helps me really think, yes, I like the way this company operates. I'm on board because you're transparent. 

19:17 I really believe you know and I appreciate your transparency with all of these things that we don't think about necessarily as actors, because we're not running that part of your business. We don't know what it takes to put together an algorithm, or we don't always know like what your clients and that's the biggest thing, we don't always know how clients operate, and I'm always telling my students that you know. If you're reaching out to a company directly to say, hey, I'm a voice actor, do you need services? Like, at any given point they may or may not need the service. You know what I mean. And so a direct marketing method is completely different than, let's say, somebody who comes to a pay-to-play because they have a need, Right Direct marketing. You don't know when that need's going to happen. Every company every day doesn't necessarily have a voiceover need, which is crazy. 

20:00 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) And I think to bring this back to like you're a boss yourself, like if you do three things half-assed, you're not going to succeed in any of those right. So I would for any starting voice actor, particularly if you're constantly forced between the decision do I go hard for an agent? Do I go hard for these online casting sites or do I go direct marketing? Especially in the beginning. I would tackle them one at a time and even within the casting sites. Being on a casting site like Voice on the 3 or Voices or Badalgo, is so different. You cannot duplicate your profile or your behavior among these companies because they're their own ecosystem. So you have to really spend time to get to know it, because you're spending your marketing budget on these sites. So I would say tackle them one at a time, otherwise you're spread too thin. 

20:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I get you, I get you. But I would also say, though, that as you progress and as you advance, and then people will say to me they've been in the business for years and they're like, well, I spent all this money on coaching and demos and a pay to play, and why am I not getting any work? Then I think I'm sorry, but you got to throw the spaghetti up against the wall, right. You've got to get yourself out in front of as many people as you can, and there's multiple marketing methods, and I think that that's what people don't understand. They think it's either putting all your eggs in one basket for pay-to-plays I should be getting work, I'm not getting work. I'm going to make any money in it? I think you really have to explore all the different options of marketing that you have right Direct marketing, pay to plays and, of course, agents and understand the intricacies of each. That is, I think, just as important as keeping your skills up to date, and your performance up to date is understanding the marketing and understanding the market that's out there. 

21:33 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, and understanding your own business, your business's relationship, and you know that you don't nurture a relationship in a day. 

21:39 That's months If you're starting out that means that only in your second year or in your third year VO starts to pay off, because then all these people that come back start to compound. So you have to do a lot of the legwork, which is the scary part, especially on, maybe, sites like Voice123, where you feel like I'm auditioning, I'm not getting stuff back like it's working, but there's a patience to it. That's one of the reasons we have yearly memberships. We use them quarterly but we know that, okay, it takes about six to seven months for people who are starting out to get really booked for the first time properly, and actually it takes about two years for people to make about five times their money back. That's what we learned. 

22:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's very interesting to know, and I like that you brought up the fact that a relationship doesn't happen overnight. It really does take time to culture that relationship, and so I think that that's important for people to know too is that sometimes they quit too soon, too quickly, before they've given it a chance. So I love all that you've brought up so far. So let's get to the chase and talk about the other area that everybody wants to know, and that is synthetic voices and everybody's feeling very threatened by them, and so talk about Voice123's stance and position on synthetic voices. 

22:46 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, maybe I said this before, but when I joined the company in 2016 and in 2018 I became CEO, it was already my first mission to say okay. The board told me then AI is coming. It's either going to replace us and that's the fear back then Like it's going to replace voice actors and therefore voice one to three. What do we do? My view has shifted the last couple of years and even the last couple of months. Even though AI is everywhere, what I keep coming back to is the thing that we're talking about this entire podcast. It's relationships and the creative aspect. I think AI will do great in any industry to reduce inefficiencies, but it will never replace creative work or never replace art. That's why it's art right. So what our idea has been these last couple of years? We can go in so many directions, but we need to stay at the core and that is, we need to amplify that. You have a relationship with a client. 

23:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) How does AI play that role. 

23:36 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) We first thought maybe we should build our own AI model. But we realized, okay, that requires its own company and a lot of work. There's geniuses that work everywhere. 

23:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know that from interviewing so many people have realized this over the time. 

23:48 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, so that's not a side thing you do. 

23:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, it's not a side hustle. 

23:52 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) No. So then we realized, okay, maybe we should partner or acquire a company that does this already. But then we realized, same as with VoiceOver, ai goes into specific niches. So there's a company called Replica Studio they're all into gaming, right. There's a company like Respeech here that's more into movie part of it, and they have speech. And you see all these companies specializing on VO purposes. So we realized, okay, no, we need to instead of thinking about that technology. The technology will be there In two or three years. Anybody can build voiceover technology. 

24:23 So, let's wait for that to happen. Let's set up the Voice on the 3 ecosystem in such a way that it is a secure place, because even before AI, voice actors have always been worried about is my audition being used without my permission? Right, are my files being stolen? So we learned from companies like Adobe, who have created all these kind of initiatives, to start stamping and IDing and signing all these different designer files to protect these freelancers. We have decided to sign every piece of audio file that flows through Voice on 2.3. Have decided to sign every piece of audio file that flows through Voice on 2.3. So that we have, like, a history and a protection layer within the system, without it being a watermark that beeps everywhere, but just a layer of protection that you always come back to. And we take basically a three-step approach. We sign every audio, we make it searchable for you in a cloud where you can access all the files that are being signed on Voice on 2.3. And you can check. That's the last part. 

25:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So it's digitally signed. Got it All the audio that gets uploaded? Yep, okay. 

25:21 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) All the audio, and that includes audio that isn't like. 

25:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) This is just all audio additions, yeah. 

25:27 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) And samples and everything that flows through the system. We just tag it, say it is found on 1, 2, 3, and it acts like a fingerprint that's unique, which also means that we got to a place, because there's so many samples that we got to ID your voice, so on top of that, we sort of added a Shazam for your voice. 

25:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So if I have uploaded stuff to your system, you know that it's mine and you also know that it's voice one, two, three, and if it gets out of your system it is still got that mark on it and it's not audible. It's a digital fingerprint. 

25:56 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) That's. I mean you should have done a pitch. That's way faster, yep. The last part of this is that, even if you hear your voice somewhere else and you think this is me, somebody has used my file or I don't recognize it, but you can upload it and then we can say, hey, this is with 95% certainty. 

26:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow, that's fantastic. 

26:12 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) So we thought we need that layer of protection in the system for people to feel safe to start also working on AI, and that's then. The next part is that we have a better life where voice actors who have a relationship with an AI vendor so let's say it's Respeecher, or Replica Studios or Eleven Labs I mean there's 50,000, I shouldn't name them all but if you have a relationship with any of these vendors, then we want to make sure it's available to our clients, in the same way that we let them know that you use SourceConnect. And what we thought would happen is that, okay, we have a version of our search where you type in a script and it automatically generates the audio. If you have an agreement with one of those companies, we thought, okay, they will start buying it. Nobody buys it. Nobody buys the audio file. What is happening is all those generated audio files turn into conversations where the client says I liked your voice in my script, let's work together. So what it is doing is it's creating a new type of audition. 

27:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Very interesting. 

27:09 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Which I like, which is, for the clients, a fast way to get to know. Does Anne sound good in my script? Yes, okay, let's book Anne and do the real deal outside or inside. It's changing that part. 

27:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So they're listening to the AI voice and then saying I want to work with Anne and get her human voice. That's very interesting. 

27:31 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Now that sounds almost too good to be true, rolf. Yeah, but so far it's what we see. But so far that's what you're seeing. So I think it's the 90-10 rule I think I mentioned this before where, in the end, ai is going to be part of us in the same way that all these other tools source connect and 10 years ago you had to start having your own home studio. The people who did that first, they pioneered that part of the industry. 

27:44 Within the next five years, every voice actor will have an AI model. A client will ask them hey, I've generated 90% of this commercial or this audiobook with your AI. Can you do the last, the last 10? Can you come in for this scene? Or can you come in for this piece or the other way around? Great recording. We're going to do some post-production, maybe change some words. Do you consent to this that I use your ai for this, and so it speeds up those kind of moments? But in the end, people want to work with an and part of an is an's ai voice and we think voice on three's goal. Okay, let's make it the place where that happens. We don't make money on what any of the interactions is between you and the voice actor, like we do now, but let's make sure that this is a safe place where you can give clients access to your AI model in a way that you want to. 

28:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So how are you actually giving clients access to? If you have an AI voice, how are you actually giving access to it? Are they able to generate it there on your site or no, they cannot download it. Oh, they can't download it. 

28:39 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) They can buy it, and then all the money goes to the voice actor. 

28:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Say that again. 

28:44 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) All the money goes to the voice actor, okay. 

28:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So you're not taking any percentage of that. 

28:48 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) No, we add a fee on top of it, but never from it. Okay. 

28:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, okay, yeah, and so do we price our voice ourselves. 

28:56 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, it's your rate card. Okay To be honest what I think will happen. We have this debate internally as well, so we're now in a first beta mode of this. Let's say it's six months from now or nine months from now no-transcript. You give them access to your model there and you can see what they're doing to generate it. It's like a logbook of how they generate it. That would be my ideal scenario of how it's getting used, because then you have full control. 

29:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And so the talent is creating a rate card for their synthetic voice, then yeah, so let's say, when I create a profile, do I also upload a version of my synthetic voice? How do I make that available? 

29:37 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, right now you can just sign on to. If you go to the Voice on 3 search, it says connect your voice and you can start the process there, got it, and then we'll ask you these questions. But later on, ideally, it becomes part of your signing up. Hey, do you have an AI voice? Yes, what's your rate card? Then go here If you don't access to the client and you can embed this on your own homepage. Right, you can use the same logic on your homepage without showcasing the logo of Voice on the 3. 

30:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, wow, that's interesting. So you have an API that allows us to embed it on our own website. 

30:09 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) You can already do your playlist of Voice on the 3 on your own website without showcasing Voice on the 3. So, it's the same logic. And then if you connect it with the cloud, where all your files are being stored and being signed, then it's hard to put it into order. But that was the whole six-layered strategy that we have. Okay, let's make sure there's trust. Let's make sure there's enough that we can track everything that's happening. 

30:30 Let's make sure that we expose the relationship between the voice actor and the client, and that's sort of the vision that we have for AI. 

30:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's great. You know, I'd love to meet up again with you in you know a couple of months and have maybe a visual demonstration of this. I think it would be really great. Or if you have a visual demonstration of it. I'd love to link it up in my show notes. 

30:47 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) All right, yeah, we'll share something yeah absolutely. 

30:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That just sounds very interesting. There's a lot of layers there and there has lot of protection in terms of they can't download the file, but can they have, like I mean there's lots of ways to steal audio. 

31:02 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) You know what I mean. That's not AI related, right? It was there before AI and will there be after. That's true. 

31:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's true. So there's nothing theoretically, I'm a tech girl, right? So there's nothing stopping anybody from taking our voices from this podcast right now, and making an AI voice out of them. So I just want bosses to be very careful of that. So the one thing about the signing right that you have the digital signing like this is Anne's voice. It came through Voice123. Is that open source technology? 

31:26 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, we're building on existing open source technology. 

31:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) OK, because a lot of us voice actors right now we're like, ok, we keep hearing about it, we keep hearing about it. It isn't available to us yet. You know, I would like to have something right now that, even if I'm not a member of Voice123, I can just filter it, put it through and then my voice has a digital signature that later on somebody can tell if that audio or if I become a voice somehow, that they will be able to tell that it was my voice. 

31:52 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) I agree. That's the whole idea. Yeah, so, and one of the reasons here we're pivoting more towards this is in part because we're going back to the beginning of this podcast about trends. We see that auditioning becomes less and less popular in the industry. The old school I want 50 auditions and I want to see as many talent as possible. I can see the new generation doesn't really want to do that. The next generation of people who book voiceover. They want to do the direct contact approach. They want to listen to some of your samples and then contact you directly and move it off. 

32:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's lovely. That's a really good trend. I like that, Rolf. 

32:25 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) I think so too, but it also means for companies like ourselves okay, we have to reinvent ourselves a bit, yeah yeah, yeah, we have to make sure that we're relevant, and that's why we're focusing all about security and tooling, and your algorithm has to change then, too, right? 

32:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Because then people searching on your site for a particular style of voice right? How do you get up at the top of that list without necessarily the feedback on any auditions, right? So you have to evolve with that as well. But that direct contact, I like that trend because I can actually see that happening myself outside of pay-to-plays, because it's becoming almost like overwhelming, right. With social media and data out there, it's becoming overwhelming, and I think people that are looking to cast for a voice they want it to be. That's why talent agents are good, because, again, they're a trusted source. They are the ones who like shortlist and say, okay, here you go, and it makes it less overwhelming for the client. 

33:17 So you're experiencing that as well on pay-to-plays and I like that. I like that because I feel like it gives everybody a fairer shot of it. I mean, I get how, like auditioning, people want to hear you speaking their brand, but also I think they want to just kind of weed out all of the. You know there's a lot of people out there they want to weed out all the voices. Maybe I don't need a male voice or I want a female voice and I want somebody that has good audio, and I love that you brought that up, because good audio is still at the very core of a good product. 

33:47 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) So many people in Voice on 3 put in their tagline what they do like a perfect girl-next-door kind of approach. That's the kind of voice I do. If you put in your tagline studio quality, you're beating out half the team. 

34:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Ah, thanks for that tip, I like that. That's a golden nugget, rolf. So what a great conversation. I almost hate to have to cut this short, because I'd like to see a demonstration of the whole synthetic voice, ai, integration, and I might be calling you back in a couple of months. 

34:15 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) I would love to yeah, yeah, thank you to you? 

34:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, thank you so much. It's been an honor. I love, I love talking to you, ralph. So you are a boss. You are definitely a boss. Thank you for always being transparent. 

34:32 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Thank you for bringing us on the other side of the glass, so to speak. It's the other side of the discuss these kind of things, like we only know the voice actor experience by talking to all of you, so this is our way also to get to stay in touch. 

34:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, good stuff. Rolf, thanks again. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl Connect and network like bosses using IPDTL and, of course, voice123 and bosses out there. I have a nice little discount for you. If you are interested, I'll put that in the show notes. You can get a little discount if you are a first time sign up to Voice123. Ralph, thanks again. Bosses, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. 

35:12 - Announcement (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Ann Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

Audio tech expert George Whittam, the genius behind George the Tech, joins Anne Ganguzza, on the VO Boss Podcast. The BOSSes tackle the technical hurdles of the industry - from unreliable internet to optimizing studio setups. George's solutions help empower voice talents to keep their focus where it belongs—on their craft. The BOSSes delve into strategies for leveraging technology and outsourcing to scale operations effectively. Adapting to change is non-negotiable in this rapidly shifting market, and finding a mentor can be crucial for navigating its complexities. The BOSSes highlight the importance of forming meaningful industry relationships and the camaraderie that can fuel professional success. 00:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey guys, it's that season again. Are you feeling that tickle in your throat? Don't let a cold or flu slow you down. Combat your symptoms early with Vocal Immunity Blast, a simple and natural remedy designed to get you back to 100% fast. With certified therapeutic-grade oils like lemon to support respiratory function, oregano for immune power, and a protective blend that shields against environmental threats, your vocal health is in good hands. Take charge of your health with Vocal Immunity Blast. Visit anneganguzza dot com to shop. 

00:41 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

01:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so happy and elated to be here with my special guest, audio tech guru and owner of George the Tech the one and only George Whittam, Woo-hoo. 

01:16 - George Whittam (Guest) Hey, can you hear me okay from the Chili's in Palos Verdes, california. 

01:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I can I, can I love it. You know George is. He is technology on the go, guys, and for those of you I don't know anyone that doesn't know you, but for those of you bosses out there that don't know George, you need to know George. He has been doing this since 2005, dedicating his life and I know this because he's helped me to serving the technical needs of bosses out there voice actors, podcasters, recording studio owners and in 2017, he launched georgethetechcom to assist anybody that needs support with just about anything. And he has an amazing team. I know firsthand. I have used that team. I've used George for many, many years and among his many successful clients I'm gonna say, in addition to me, are Don LaFontaine, bill Ratner, mr Beast, david Prog, melissa Disney, randy Thomas, joe Cipriano and Scott Rummel. Well, welcome, welcome, welcome and thank you for checking in with me, george, from your very busy schedule. George actually just popped off the road and said I will join this interview from the Chili's after my customer that you just went to go fix a studio. 

02:32 - George Whittam (Guest) I did, I did. I do most of my work from home, of course, remotely, but I have a few clients who do have me on a membership program that I've been doing for many years and I make regular visits. So today was one of those days and technology, once in a while, it just flails miserably at letting you know that there's something you're supposed to be doing, and this was one of those moments. You texted me from the car. You're just, and you're like out of the blue tech, just checking in, and I'm like, oh, that's so nice, and it's just checking in, see you're not checking in. 

03:03 You're like where the F are you right now? 

03:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) George, george, where are you? 

03:07 - George Whittam (Guest) In our Riverside room right now. So anyway, thank you. I hope this isn't too distracting. They find me a quiet corner of the restaurant, so we'll see how it goes. 

03:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love it. I will say, though, here's the deal, my video now Riverside. Anybody that's been on Riverside knows that it's uploading video and audio separately, and right now my upload is at 94%, Yours is only at 55%, so that 5G connection keep your fingers crossed that that internet is going to upload that video successfully and the audio Don't worry. Well, guess what I get to do this again. 

03:42 - George Whittam (Guest) I got your back because I'm recording it. I was about to say, I was recording in QuickTime and it said that you've stopped recording, so I'm going to start recording it again, just so I have another layer of redundancy to this whole thing. But that is the really cool thing about Riverside is that, yeah, it doesn't want QuickTime, won't let me. Okay, fine, fine, we're going to rely on new technology today. But, yeah, riverside is really cool the way it keeps a local record and even if my internet isn't, great. 

04:09 I'll eventually get it uploaded to you, so don't worry about that. Yes, Awesome. 

04:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, it's always a good excuse to chat with you again, because it's so rare these days, I mean except when I'm desperate in need of technical support. 

04:22 - Intro (Announcement) And. 

04:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'll have the bosses know that George helped me with my past or my latest studio upgrade. And I remember, george, that we were talking about me moving my Apollo solo into my studio which, by the way, it is moved in here and we were testing out this very long cable that went from my Mac studio out there into my studio and guess what it's working, and yay, technology. And so, george, you're instrumental in all of my studio upgrades and actually my original studio building when I moved to California back in oh my goodness, 2008. And so you've been through a lot of my studio builds. And let's talk a little bit about, oh gosh, what bosses need audio-wise right for being successful voice actors. They have so many technological needs. 

05:14 - George Whittam (Guest) It is so many. You know. The thing is not everybody is like you, anne. 

05:19 You love and embrace technology in a way that a lot of actors do not right and so on the cover of the laptop that you can't see because it's on the other side of the camera. I have a cover on my laptop and it's a picture of the left brain, right brain thing, right Like you know, the left being very technical, the right being creative, and I'm such a big proponent of finding the perfect middle balance. Maybe that's because I'm also a Libra, I don't know, but you know it's like I'm such a big proponent of finding the perfect middle balance. Maybe that's because I'm also a Libra, I don't know, but you know it's like I'm always trying to find that balance and I'm also trying to figure out who you are as my client. Are you more Ann Ganguza, or are you more Lori Allen, who's my quintessential super right brain, crazy actor talent, you know, and she knows that I'll say that and she'll laugh that doesn't love technology or doesn't care, right, I mean I get it. 

06:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean we go into this industry. I mean some of us are just super, super creative and brilliant. 

06:18 - George Whittam (Guest) If we had our choice, we would let someone else run all the technology and take care of it for us, which is what you do Absolutely. In a perfect world, we would all have our own little virtual assistant engineer people who just log into your machine and run everything for you. I do know a precious few actors who have actually availed themselves of such a thing, which is a pretty nice position to be in, right, and that would be a really cool scenario where you really don't need to think about it. But the fact of the matter is, the vast majority of the time, we have to think about and know what's going on with the technology and ensure that we're giving the client super clean, great quality audio quickly and on time, reliably, etc. Etc. And that's the goal. 

07:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It is about good audio, but it's about a lot of other things beyond just good audio, you know, willing to really experiment and figure out solutions for your clients that are not like status quo. So if they have a budget, you can fit yourself within that budget and you make things work and you say, all right, so if you need this, we can maybe substitute this or we can work with this. And I'm talking bosses, my firsthand experience, not just on what microphone or give me a stack to put on my audio, but like home studio builds from the ground up, like what can I do to save money here? Or what can I do? I have this in my budget and you literally have created things from like the ground up, depending on your client's budget. 

08:01 And I think that that's really awesome and it really goes to show like the versatility and the amount of skills that you have in, not just like one thing. I mean you have to be great at everything, because everybody has different technology, everybody has a different microphone, everyone has a different DAW, everyone has a different environment in their house that you have to kind of assess and then say, well, okay, here's a solution. And then I'm quite sure, myself being one of them going, no, I can't do that, so you'll come up with multiple solutions. Or if something doesn't work, you'll actually get it to work. You'll figure out what it is that's not working and then make it work. 

08:38 - George Whittam (Guest) Yeah, it's so many different things because there's a lot of things that you can get away with or there's certain things that you can make work or get it to work. Here's my black bean burger and fries. 

08:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right. 

08:50 - George Whittam (Guest) There's a lot of things you can get away with, so I'll try to talk while you take a bite. I will eat when you're talking, okay, so there's a lot of things that you can make work. There's a lot of things that you can get away with, and that's where people start out right. That's where you begin, that's where you learn on your own. 

09:06 That's where you get used equipment. You get hand-me-downs, you buy what you can find on Amazon, right, you get away with it. You make it work. But at a certain point your clientele requires this consistency, quality and this quick turnaround, and that stuff starts to be cumbersome, it becomes a bother because it's getting in your way, right. So that's a big part of it. And then I'm glad you said earlier budget. 

09:33 You really need to know where you're at. I mean, this is why voice acting, especially now as an entrepreneurial pursuit, you really need to have a pretty good idea where you're at with your budget. When you come to me, be honest with yourself, be honest with me. I'm not here to spend unnecessary money. I'm not here to push you or upsell you. I'm going to tell you exactly where you're at, based on where you are with your budget, and make sure it fits, because that's my goal is to help you out and get you where you need to go at the budget you've had to spend. 

10:07 And then if it's either really too low, I'll let you know if I think it's not going to work, or I will speak up if I think you're overspending, if I think you've got this budget and it's unnecessarily. You know it's like, oh well, you've got that much to spend, all right. Well, let's think about that. Should we really spend all of that? Or should we really be spending 20% of that on the mic and maybe 50% of that on building your website, getting your demo, that kind of stuff right? So I'll make sure your money is spent the right way, but be really honest with yourself about what your budget is. Know where you're ready to spend so we can get off on the right foot. 

10:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So let's talk about the types of services that you do offer, because I'm happy to recommend you and your team to my students, and I think they might have preconceived notions as to oh well, george can just create a stack for me, or George can just tell me what microphone to buy, with lots of experience in multiple operating systems. So it's not just the mic or not just the studio, it can be your computer, it can be your software, it can be how to use Twisted Wave or how to use I just had a student the other day Studio One. I'm sure you have somebody on your team that can help with somebody with Studio One, and so can you create a filter for that? And so I'm constantly saying to myself I know lots of different audio engineers that specialize right, and I think that's great, but they're all independent, right? And so I can't be like, oh gosh, well, who knows Twisted Wave or who knows Studio One, or who knows? 

11:48 And I'll think about it. What's great is you're like a one-stop shop, because now you've built yourself up a team. What's great is you're like a one-stop shop because now you've built yourself up a team, and I love this, because when I hired you in the beginning it was just you and you're I mean, you're busy back then and I love how you've like I mean, talk about being a boss, right. You've actually grown your little empire there and created a team of really amazing people that work for you, that have great skills and very specific skills. Speak to that a little bit. 

12:14 - George Whittam (Guest) It's been a dream for a really long time to expand beyond myself. It started probably 12, 13 years ago in New York City. I knew I couldn't be in New York City that often and I had a few clients in New York and I thought, god, it'd be a no-brainer to have somebody else backing me up here in Manhattan. I actually had interviews in Borders bookstores with people that responded to ads, sat down, interviewed people and onboarded some folks and it just turned out that, one, maybe it was too soon to do it and two, it wasn't enough demand, because at that time it was a different time. But New York it was almost 100% studio town. Right, all the gigs were in studios because they're all over the place, they're all like walking or a subway ride away. So New York was a different environment. 

13:05 So flash forward now quite a few years and I decided, with the new website that I had built by Skills Hub a couple of years ago, that it was finally time to properly expand the team. And now that I have a system built, an infrastructure, a booking system, the whole thing that allows me to essentially infinitely expand, I can build it as big as I want. I finally had the tools and everything in place to do that, and so we have that. Now you can go onto the website. Let's say you need help with Adobe Audition. You can see who is available that is actually an Adobe Audition expert and then you'll see their availability and you can book into the system right then and there and get help with someone that actually knows what they're doing. I realized after a while there's a certain point where I don't necessarily learn and retain new information the way I used to. I think that's just life, that's just age, right? 

14:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, there's so much now. 

14:04 - George Whittam (Guest) And there's so much more. 

14:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I know you're like right Anne. 

14:07 - George Whittam (Guest) Right, but I get that I totally get that. 

14:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But think about this what I really love. What I really love is, again and again, this is the VO Boss podcast. So I really like to always relate things to how you can really be a boss, and I think all of us voice actors are bosses, obviously in our own right, and I think we really need to look for ways that we can grow and expand. Right and it's not an easy thing, right, it's a scary thing how can you scale? How can you provide more services for your clients so that your business can move forward successfully? And you are such a great example of I mean, not everybody that's a voice actor, is an audio engineer and they're going to scale their businesses in the way that you did, but it's all relative right, as voice actors, how can you scale your business? And so if you think outside of the box and you think about what can you do that's efficient as a voice actor, right, maybe you don't like technology, maybe you don't understand your computer, and I'm saying there's a certain element that we have to be technologically adept, but you can consider outsourcing these things as a voice actor so that you yourself can scale your business, and you've offered this great place for people to have all kinds of options, and so it's not just like a one-shot deal. 

15:25 George, I need help. You have like 24-7 support, and I know for a fact that you've got emergency tech support, which I know, having worked in technology for how many years prior to voiceover. Technology is awesome until it doesn't work and then people panic, right, and that's when it's almost the most important to have that type of support. And so I'm sure lots of you voice actors have had something happen with your computer, like, and all of a sudden you're at a loss, or something happened in your studio, you're at a loss, and now all of a sudden, do you have a backup? Do you have a way that you can deliver your goods, deliver your product to your client? 

16:01 And I think we all need to really start thinking about how can we outsource, how can we scale, and you've got a great place where, if voice actors don't necessarily love working with technology or learning technology, nor do they have the time right For me. I have no desire to be an audio engineer, I know what I know right, and if I have problems, let's say I'm setting up my new Mac studio. Well, I don't want to spend my entire weekend trying to learn anymore. I mean, I love learning, don't get me wrong but I don't want to right now. That's not an efficient use of my time. 

16:33 So I'd much rather call you and say hey, george, I know you've set up Macs, I know you've done the Apollo on this iOS and I'm running into these problems. Or I know I'm having a problem like with Zoom and then sending my audio through Zoom. How can you help me? So it just makes sense for me, as a boss, right to outsource that. And so make sure, out there, guys, that you have a source, and I highly recommend George a hundred times If you haven't figured it out by now, I'm recommending him a hundred times over. Have a source, have a place that you can go when you run into trouble technology-wise or with your computer, or you want to just learn. You also have educational resources. You have tutorials. Yes, you have one-on-one help. You've just got all those options and I think it just really lends itself. Not only are you showing people how you're a boss and you're scaling your business right. They can scale their business with you. 

17:26 - George Whittam (Guest) Yeah, being a boss is what I've really become now. I was always solopreneuring. In a way I still am, but now I do actually have people that look to me for getting paid, look for me for getting jobs, look for me for communication and support and actually training. The content we create for you guys we use internally to train our own team. I want more of our team to be comfortable with the Universal Audio Apollo. I've been encouraging them to watch the content we already have. Everybody who does work for me gets complete carte blanche access to my entire library of content right, so they all can learn. 

18:03 I want to work with you, then I would love to have you. I mean, honestly, the point is that we've built the network, we've built the system, we have the infrastructure. Now it's just a matter of what's the next thing a voice actor needs, or what's the next thing podcasters need, what's the next thing people that do media appearances need, studios, people that need to do executives, c-suite folks what do they all need? And we're trying to eventually fill these different gaps right, and so my role now is more of a boss, more of a CEO, more of a director, even beyond. I spend way more hours of my day doing director, boss, ceo work than I do actual build time nowadays, and that's just how things have morphed. But it's great. 

18:52 I love finding out that somebody got a service from one of our team and I didn't even know about it. That's the coolest thing ever. Oh, you helped that guy. Awesome, I had no idea. That's great. That means things are working. I don't have to micromanage everything, and so that's been a huge thrill for me, and it's just allowed us to be so much more helpful to more people. 

19:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's such a relief. I know my own business. When you said about micromanaging, and in reality, you know, we talk all the time about voice actors, we're solopreneurs, we wear all the hats, but now's the time to really start thinking about, okay, what is the most efficient use of my time? Right, and I want you bosses to really open your minds out to thinking that a lot of people they get stuck in this whole thought process that, oh, I can't afford to hire somebody. But in reality, if you sat down and you marked what is your price per hour? Right, how much money do you make when you're doing voiceover, versus how much money are you making when you're trying to, like, do the billing yourself? Right? 

19:50 - George Whittam (Guest) I'm so glad you mentioned the hourly thing because a while ago somebody made that clear to me. 

19:55 There's the hourly rate that you charge retail, right? I know what my hourly rate is per hour. If you want to consult with me directly, it's $360 an hour. Whoa huge number. Wow, that sounds really crazy. That's not what I make per hour. What I make per hour is actually what I made last year. Subtract my expenses, take my net revenue right and divide that by I don't remember the magic number is whatever. It is 52 weeks a year, you know. And then you basically whittle it down to what your actual hourly wage actually is and you start to realize like, oh my gosh, that's what my actual time is worth. And so you're going oh, now it is worth spending $25 an hour for a virtual assistant or somebody because I'm actually worth $50 an hour. 

20:45 You know what I mean. So that's. It's really good to know that. 

20:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, exactly. 

20:50 And I think that we need to look outside of, like, the numbers that are just spent, because somebody might say, oh, I spent a thousand dollars on this microphone. 

21:00 If you figure out what your value is per hour, right, and you're doing tasks that I always say, don't bring you joy a certain standard where, if I want to be able to direct somebody right that I'm going to outsource stuff to, I need to learn enough about it so that I can direct intelligently, right. 

21:20 I know, you know, if somebody's saying to me well, it's taking me five hours to do this, when I know, in fact, maybe it shouldn't be taking five hours, because when you become a boss and you start employing people, you have to be concerned about, okay, what's the value of your employees and what are they bringing you, what are you paying them right and how efficient can they be? And I think also, george, it becomes where you now have to inspire the people that work for you to want to do their best for you, that they want to help move your company forward, and to do that, you've got to pay them a fair rate you definitely do and you've got to inspire them with things that they like to do right so that they join the team right. 

22:01 And that's a whole other set of boss skills that's a whole other set of boss skills which I love. 

22:06 - George Whittam (Guest) The amazing person I brought in to do our customer service and actually kind of act as a bit of an assistant to me as well. She also is a graphic designer. So when I realized that she was getting these skills, she was literally studying and I said you know what? Let's try some things, let's get you doing some more creative endeavors, and I'm paying her more for that. I said you know, track your time when you're doing graphic design, when you're creating our thumbnails and our promotional content for the socials and our webinars, and that's a different rate. You tell me what you think is a fair rate for your graphic design and then you have a rate for all the other general work and she breaks up her billing that way and so she's getting paid better for that work and that's going to be much more fulfilling for her because it's creative stuff and I think it's been working out really well. You know, my biggest fear is her going away. If she goes, away. 

23:02 That's going to be a giant pain in my neck to find another person like her Finding good. 

23:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's going to be very difficult, so I want to keep her around. 

23:12 - George Whittam (Guest) It's a delicate balance and I trust her. It sure is, you know, but it's a tricky one. The more you rely on outside help, the more you start realizing you need to make sure what will you do if that person needs to be replaced? It's another skill. 

23:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And the people that work for you. They need to be better than you, and I think that's an ego thing for a lot of people. Do you know what I mean it's like? Oh no, I want to do it because I want to have control over it. I mean, I'm a control freak. I know this. I mean it took me a while, but once I started realizing that when you hire people who are better than you at the tasks like I'm not a graphic artist, so I want to hire somebody who's amazing at that and then pay them what they're worth, they aren't bitter, they don't feel like, oh, they're just working for pennies, and so they get excited because you want to work with them and collaborate. They get excited about helping you grow your business and you get excited about helping them grow their skills or grow their career as well under you. So I think it's something that bosses out there can really start to think about. 

24:10 How would you expand right? And I think now too, with the technology and with AI and all this talk about the industry and how it's changing, I think technology it's always good to educate yourself on the technology evolve with the technology, those other things that we're talking about in addition to voiceover, like on-camera work, right? Voice actors maybe this is something that you know. You want to present yourself more professionally to your clients. What's involved in a good I don't know webcam or good lighting for your studio and that sort of thing. So that's the sort of thing that you can help them with as well in terms of expanding and broadening their horizons, even outside of voice acting. 

24:51 So I love that you said that you were also delving into on-camera and technology for expanding businesses, because I think voice actors should also consider things like that. I mean, it's something we've talked about on the podcast as well, as we're moving forward along with this technology. What other services can you offer your clients? What other things can you do? Are you going to be making TikTok videos, right? How can you get your message out there? How can you market yourself right so that people know you exist, so they can hire you? And a part of that is getting out there, getting heard, getting seen, and you can help with that. 

25:26 - George Whittam (Guest) And you might also be able to parlay that thing, because now you've become the spokesperson for that channel or that brand or that explainer and if you can now take that ability to create content into a visual medium and you might move beyond just doing voice, if you end up being comfortable on camera. You may not know if you're comfortable on camera until you do it. When I started my first podcast or really web channel, YouTube channel East West On your Body Shop, you can go back and watch episode one. 

25:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh yeah, and I was like a deer in headlights Myself too. 

26:01 - George Whittam (Guest) I got a lot more comfortable on camera. So you know, as I evolve and I start doing more and more interviews and interviewing others and I'm going wow, I'm really comfortable doing this. I've actually really enjoying this. How can I parlay this into a different? So now I'm thinking about speaking engagements and doing speaking roles. 

26:21 I've gotten to teach in a couple of universities now. Wow, I love doing that, so maybe I need to parlay that into another thing. So I'm looking into speaking now. So it's just ever-evolving. If you get stuck in one lane, you can quickly start feeling discouraged. When that one lane that you chose starts grinding to a halt, you really need to be ready to try new stuff Starts getting traffic right and saturated. 

26:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean now I'm just thinking of that, you know, because after the pandemic I mean I had so many people that I think got into voiceover because of the pandemic and now I thought we were saturated before. But there's a lot of people in there. I'm not saying there isn't enough work, voiceover work. However, there's an awful lot of people doing voiceover. So I think it's always healthy for us to consider how we can always grow and always evolve. So I'm going to ask you one last thing, george, before I have to run for the day what would be your best advice that you would give someone out there just getting into the industry? 

27:21 - George Whittam (Guest) Definitely work with a coach that understands the spectrum of what you need to learn in a holistic way. That coach doesn't have to be an expert in every aspect, but the coach should be very aware of that. You need to learn these separate skills right. So someone like Anne, for example. She knows a lot about a lot of things, but she also knows when it's time to get another person involved a demo producer, an expert engineer. 

27:47 Yeah, that's so, so helpful, right, and it's so easy. These days it's almost like getting support is just like dating. It's so easy to just keep swiping right or swiping left. Which one is it? Because you're like well, that was nice, let me try that guy, and I hear that guy's good. Let's try that guy. 

28:03 Hook your wagon to somebody for a while and focus in on what they have to say and learn before you start constantly seeking fresh perspectives. It doesn't mean fresh perspectives are bad, but you really need to focus on one person's methodologies and get behind them and then, after you've done it for a while, consider well, is it the best way? Well, maybe I could learn a new skill, or maybe I have another way to learn this that could save time. I never am offended when a client says I worked with somebody else along the way, but I do get concerned when somebody's pretty new and they've already taken, let's say, consulting from three or four different techs and four or five different coaches, because they're going to have a lot of conflicting or somewhat differing opinions and you're going to get so off base. 

28:51 So find somebody that is well vetted, somebody that has like we have our trusted partners page on our website. Everybody on there is somebody we have worked with and trust. And hook your wagon to somebody like Ann, so you have that one point of focus to help you navigate all of this, and then they can help shut you off into different directions for those specialty things. Otherwise it can feel hopelessly confusing and there's just too much conflicting information out there. So that's the best thing I can say Just find one single point of trust, follow that person, get the advice they can give you and find the expertise in different areas when you need it, and go to georgethetech early and often. Yes. 

29:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, yes, I was just going to say how can people get in touch with you, george the tech? 

29:44 - George Whittam (Guest) You have your landing page right, Absolutely Slash. 

29:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yep, is it slash? Be a boss, my gosh. 

29:50 - George Whittam (Guest) I don't have it memorized. 

29:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I have it like in a link, I think so I'll check it, I'll look it up. 

29:56 I'll put that in the show notes. Yeah, I'll put it in the show notes for services. I do have a nice little link that I can send to you. That will save you some money on your first services with George. So highly recommend. George. It's been so nice to have you and I appreciate you pulling off to the side of the road and being safe and talking with us today, and I'm going to give a great big shout out to IPDTL you too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom and George, it's been so wonderful talking with you. I feel like we should do a series. We should do a whole series with George the Tech. 

30:31 - George Whittam (Guest) We'll do another one in a proper environment when I'm in my home studio, I promise. And, by the way, it's slash AG, so georgethetech slash AG for Ann Ganguza. That'll take you to all the information we have and our discount codes and come and visit us and learn from us. We have so much useful content that's affordable and accessible. So happy to be of service and thank you, ann. Thanks for being so cool, a friend and being always a pleasure to talk to yes. You're a blast to be around. 

31:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I feel the exact same way about you. So thanks so much. All right, bosses, you have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Take care, bye, bye. 

31:13 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

In this episode of BOSS money talks, we guide you through the essential financial and managerial responsibilities of running a voiceover business. Discover how to budget for employees or contractors effectively, distinguish between different types of workers, and ensure fair compensation. Learn about the mental preparation required to step into an employer's shoes, the importance of training and feedback, and how to create a nurturing work environment that drives growth and success. Whether you're outsourcing tasks or managing an in-house team, this episode is packed with insights to help you effectively grow your business. We also highlight the critical role of trust and communication in any business operation. 00:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, ever feel overwhelmed by marketing? I get it. Let's tackle it together with a VO Boss Blast. We're all about making marketing as enjoyable as voice acting itself. Dive in with me and let's blast off together and let's turn those marketing challenges into victories. Sign up today at voboss com. 

00:27 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

00:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Money Talk Series. I'm your host, nne Ganguza, and I am so excited to bring back to the show money girl Danielle Famble to the show, hey. 

00:58 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Danielle, hey, glad to be back. 

01:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) How are you? 

01:01 - Danielle Famble (Guest) I'm great. How are? 

01:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) you. I'm good, you know, it is that time of the month, yeah. I'm talking about that financial time of the month. 

01:09 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Oh yeah. 

01:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know what that sounded like, but anyways, it's that financial time of the month where I have to pay the people that work for me, and so I have to pay my employees. Do I call them employees, my contractors, my virtual assistants, whatever that I have, or whatever you may have bosses out there that help you to run your business, and I highly highly recommend them because they can really help you to grow, but it is something that, financially, I need to make sure that I account for it, and so I thought it'd be a great topic to talk about in our episode, because I know a lot of voice talents that are either they don't want to do marketing or they don't want to do social media, and so they're hiring assistants and they really need to know how to account for this financially in their businesses. 

01:56 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, no, this is a really important topic because what you're talking about is being an employer, being responsible for the people who are helping you grow the business that you have created, and that's a really big responsibility. So not only is it about, like, accounting for it, but it's also making sure that you mentally are prepared for all the things that comes with being an employer. So, yes, being ready for the financial implications every single month is really important. But also, what are you wanting your employees to help you do? Contractors, whomever and there's a designation there. It depends on if they are specifically working for you and you've onboarded them from a tax perspective. 

02:40 But if they are a freelancer, then a contractor, and there are different ways that you have to kind of deal with that. 

02:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know what? I love that you brought up the fact that not only like financially right, we have to figure out, okay, first of all, we're going to be outsourcing things in our businesses and we will be paying as an employer or as a contract, whatever, we'll be paying somebody, and so, financially, we need to be responsible, but also as a boss right, as a VO boss, you need to be a boss, and so there's also not just financial implications, but also are you ready to be a boss? And really, what are the criteria, what are the qualifications for people that you bring on board that can help you to grow your business, to be successful financially and growth wise? 

03:24 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, I think you also need to take a look inward. 

03:26 Before you become a boss of someone else is really to figure out is there something for them to do consistently, what do you want this person to help you with, what are the tasks? And being able to train them on those tasks so that whenever they are doing whatever it is you have them doing in your business, they know how to do it. You know how to do it and you know if it's being done correctly or incorrectly and there's some feedback that needs to be given. So really knowing that, but also understanding that when you bring someone into your business, when you become a boss, you're responsible for, in a way, their livelihood. Personally, I take that responsibility seriously because I know before I became a boss, before I was running this business, I know what it feels like to be sort of at the whim of your employer and it can kind of be a bit of a vulnerable position. So you get to decide what kind of boss you want to be when you are the VO boss of your own business. 

04:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. I love that you brought that up. It is something that you're right. You need to look inward. You need to really take consideration. 

04:30 If you've never been a boss of someone else, there are lots of different aspects to it and how to be a good boss, right, and so, financially, I'm going to say that number one, if you've worked in the corporate world at all and I say this so many times, like we just we want to be appreciated for what we do, right, we want to feel that maybe we can make contributions to the companies in which we work. And if we are not getting that happiness or that joy or that satisfaction, then typically we look elsewhere or we're like I got to get out of the corporate world, I just want to do voiceover. So the same thing when you're an employer, you're a VO boss and you have somebody that's working for you, you want to make sure that number one, you're paying them a fee. That is, I think, something that motivates them, inspires them, is fair, right Compensation, and you're not just trying to like get somebody because you don't have a ton of money and so I can't afford to pay you a whole lot. I really look at it differently. I'm like right, this is someone's livelihood. They're depending on the salary or whatever it is. You're paying them this little stipend for their livelihood and a lot of times they're freelancers themselves. If you happen to hire within the voiceover community, or if not, it is a portion of their income. 

05:37 So you want to be a good boss number one, financially. You want to make sure that they're getting paid fairly, that they're getting paid, I would say, competitively for what they do, like if they're social media, if they're doing accounting, if they're doing whatever they're doing. You want to make sure that they're getting paid a fair fee, because you want to make sure they want to work for you and they want to be part of the team. That is the whole mental thing, right? You want them to work their best for you so that you can grow together, and so I think that's one thing to take into consideration. You're paying them fairly and then also, you're willing to manage them, because these are living human beings and there are emotions at play, right? 

06:27 - Danielle Famble (Guest) There's all kinds of things that come into being a good boss, and I love that you talked about managing them, because really a huge step really comes from you being the person who is working in your business working your business to managing and overseeing other people who are taking on those tasks. 

06:37 Again, this whole thing really is like a huge mental shift, because you need to now be able to articulate what it is that you are looking for, how to give feedback to that person and receive feedback, because once the person that you've hired becomes the one who's responsible for this task, they will likely become better at it than you were, because they're spending more time doing it than you did, and so maybe hearing and receiving feedback on a different way to go about this task, for example, might actually be better. But do you want to just stick with what you said and how you went about growing the business to bring them on in the first place, or do you want to take that feedback from them? It really is about like how much do you want to micromanage or not micromanage at all, and a huge part of it is also creating and crafting the vision for your business. Where are you going? Because you now the boss, you're the leader and you're sharing this vision and the people are helping. You know you're growing together, as you said. I love that. 

07:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, and you want them to be motivated and inspired to help you achieve that vision, especially for those of you that work in the corporate world. Right, how much? If you sit back and think about it, how much did you really care if you were helping the company to grow right? Was it just a salary for you or were you invested in it? And I think that, for me personally, the happier I was at my job, the more involved I was in being proud of what I had to contribute and being proud in seeing the company do well, and to me, that was when I was happiest, and that's how I want my employees to be. I want them to be happy to watch us grow together and to be proud to be part of that vision, and a lot of that absolutely requires, number one, that I pay them fairly and give them bonuses for jobs well done, which I actually do to keep them motivated. And also very much what you said listen and be open for feedback, not just giving orders or saying here, do this, but listening to them if they're inspired and motivated to want to help grow the business. 

08:41 And I'm so fortunate to have a wonderful team that works with me that I think I can proudly say that I have had two people that have worked for me for over five years, if not coming up on eight to 10 years of working with me. So I needed to every year make sure that I was keeping them inspired and motivated and happy and giving them compensation when they're due, Like I'll give them. Oh, you know what I really appreciate that job that you did. Here's a $100 Amazon gift certificate, and that also requires, when you're an employer, you have to be comfortable with paying people. I mean, I think there's a whole mental thing about that, right. It's like, oh my God, you have to be confident enough in your business so that you're not worried about money all the time. Have that confidence, right, I will have the money to pay. And you have to secure those systems in place, right, so that you can pay. 

09:37 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, I mean it can be for some VO bosses out there like a one-time thing. I have this one task and that make it a contract thing and once it's done, it's done. But when we're talking about having assistance or help, that is helping on an ongoing basis. That means ongoing pay. And, to your point, when I was working in the corporate world, to be honest with you, I was happiest when I was making the type of money that would allow me to live the life that I wanted to live. 

10:02 And I wasn't really thrilled about anything else other than how it affected my life. And money affects my life in so many different ways. 

10:11 So it's really just making sure that you can keep people fair in their compensation, but also make sure that you're paying on time oh yeah, I like to get paid on time for the work that I've done. And making sure that you can pay on time and to your point, it's making sure that you have the resources and the money and the revenue coming into your business, that paying your assistance is not a monthly freak out moment. 

10:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly that's so, so important. Yeah, I like how you said that, yes, it was all about like money was something that made you comfortable, right, that you were being paid and being compensated on time, to the point where that's what made you want to work for that company, being paid well. And also, I will say back in my younger days, I was being paid well and I had the bonus that I was really proud of how I was contributing to the company and I really believed in the company. So that was like such an added bonus and actually I think that it really set a lot for like why I was in the career I was in for that length of time because I was happy, both compensation-wise and also like motivation-wise and purpose-wise. So I do feel that when you have assistants, if you want to, let's say, have them for any period of time, maybe you're just hiring them for one job and it's one and done. But if you do want to have them on an ongoing basis, there's also a whole relationship that becomes important for you to develop with them so that they look forward to doing whatever they're doing for you and it's not just a boring job that doesn't give them any joy. So whatever you can do to make that joyful for them and make them want to continue to work for you and want to continue to grow the business Financially wise. 

11:55 It is a thing that I do every month. I have them send me invoices and I have different people that I pay at different times of the month, and so I want to make sure that I'm paying them in a way that I'm not like PayPal, where fees get taken out, so it's pretty much bank to bank sort of transaction wise. And when I do that, also it's important to have my accountant who knows what I'm paying, because technically speaking, right and we were just talking about this earlier If I pay over a certain amount to someone, I do need to declare that on my taxes. So having a good bookkeeper slash accountant that can understand, okay, this money is being used to pay my employees. 

12:37 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, and we talked about this earlier how does your bookkeeper or accountant account for the services that's happening? So these are business expenses, these are business services that they are providing, and you are paying for the service of having someone you know run your business. 

12:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They're like a vendor. Can you really say they're an employee if they're an independent contractor? Not really right, because independent contractor is more like a vendor. For you, sure, and for, I think, most of us. For me, that's what it is. I don't actually employ someone where I'm paying health benefits or anything like that. So, I want to make that distinction where I'm not that type of corporation where I'm paying somebody full time and they're getting health benefits, I'm paying an independent contractor, but I still also have to account for that to the IRS. 

13:23 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, and most VO bosses will probably find themselves in a similar position. I also have essentially a vendor, a contractor, who I'm not paying their health insurance and pension and things like that, as we did when we were working in the corporate world. So it's a different distinction. But it also requires the level of bookkeeping and making sure that you know how much you've paid them throughout the course of the year so that you can get them the correct tax form at the end of the year. And that means working with an accountant or working with a financial professional who can help you do that, unless you feel super confident in doing it yourself. But if you're running a business, in my opinion, and you are paying someone to help you run your business, another part of that is paying someone to help you keep track of the finances of your business. 

14:10 It all works together. 

14:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely. I do think that ongoing education for your contractors or employers is important. Oh yeah, in terms of, first of all, I make sure that I meet with my people, at least my assistants that do the majority of, let's say, my social media work or marketing work, that sort of thing. I make sure that we meet once a week actually, and that works for us in our business. But I don't necessarily meet with my audio editor at all. That's usually done through email and then after a month's worth of podcast audio editing he'll send me an invoice. 

14:42 But anybody that's doing work for me that requires a little bit more than just audio editing. That might require helping me grow my business out there on social media, which I think is important that they know me and they know what I'm looking for and that I can specify that. And I don't like to micromanage at all because, frankly, I'm busy and so it takes some time to get the right employee right that you trust to handle things A control freak like me. In case anybody didn't realize that you know, A-type personality. 

15:17 For me to give up power and just say go ahead, please do this for me and be okay with that was a big step for me as an employer, because I'm very much a control freak. I very much said, well, I can't hire somebody to do it because they're not going to do it as well as I do. Yeah, exactly, and you have to give up. That's a big mental aspect. You have to give that up because there are people who are better than you at certain things. And why not, right, hire someone like we talked about with a financial accountant or bookkeeper? Right, why not hire somebody that that's what they love to do and that's all they do? I want people that are better than me doing things for my business to grow my business. So you've got to give up that ego, the fact that nobody but you can do it. Right, you have to really place trust in your employees, because when you do that and you hire people that are better than you, that's what's going to grow your business. 

16:09 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Oh, absolutely, and a huge part of that is communication. As you said, you meet with your team once a week. I also have a weekly In person. 

16:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, not in person, I shouldn't say on Zoom. 

16:19 - Danielle Famble (Guest) On Zoom. 

16:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Like a Zoom. I don't just text back and forth. Although I do text a lot of times, but-. 

16:24 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Right. 

16:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We meet on a Zoom meeting. On a Zoom meeting. 

16:26 - Danielle Famble (Guest) I also with my assistant. We meet once a week on a Zoom call and then we use Slack to communicate. We communicate via Slack every single day and at the end of our meetings I always say, if you need anything, I'll be in Slack. I mean, it's the way to get to me as quickly as possible. I love Slack. 

16:42 Yeah we talk every single day and the more communication actually the better, because then that person gets to know you and they can kind of hear your voice and your tone of voice and how you're wanting things done. They get to know your style, how you give feedback. That open communication actually really just helps person to person. You're dealing with, in some ways, hopefully a human being who can really start to craft what they do to who you are, because this is a brand about your personality, about your voice, about your style so it's huge. 

17:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I really do feel that I make it a point to express my appreciation frequently to my assistants, because they're like my right-hand people in reality and I'm always like, oh God, I appreciate you guys, thank you so much. I'm always making sure to do that because, again, I want them to feel appreciated. A thank you goes a long way to really having employees work their best for you, which is what you want. I mean, you're investing money in your employees as well as your business, right? So you want to make sure that your investment is going to pay off for you. And now here's the question what if you hire someone that is not necessarily working out well for you? What are your best tips for that? Because that's happened to me too, and that's not always easy as a boss to fire someone. 

17:56 - Danielle Famble (Guest) It is not always easy. It is a very real possibility. Whenever you bring anyone into your business as a contractor, as a one-time gig work, whatever, whenever you bring someone in, it's very real possibility that it doesn't work. So I think, before you bring that person in, have a very clear understanding, write it down. I would even say with what it is that you are looking for, what are the checks and how do you know if this person is working or not working. 

18:22 Have the metrics so that you can say hey, this is what I'm hoping to accomplish, this is what I need, and you know if that person has it or not. 

18:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and you bring up a really good point, because when you say, write it down, so everybody that works for me has to sign an. 

18:40 NDA right Number one and they have a contract Like I have a statement of work, here's what I expect, here's what you'll be paid, here are like the terms, and you can actually create that NDA or that contract fairly simply. 

18:54 I have a lawyer that I hire all the time, but there are templates out all over the place, but that kind of keeps me I feel legally secure, so that, let's say, I'm discussing something about growing my business, that I don't want them to go out and then implement, which is always like an issue when you hire people within the same industry, because if they work for you and then you discuss ideas like here's how I want to grow my business, what's to stop them from necessarily taking those ideas and implementing for their own business? And sometimes I'm not saying that I'm completely possessive, but there were cases. A long time ago, I hired somebody to work on development of this podcast and there were a lot of ideas that were flying around about how to grow which then, after the person did not work out for me, ended up somehow being implemented by them. And so that's just one of those things. I think. To safeguard your own business and your personal brand, you need to have a contract in place. 

19:50 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Absolutely. I think having a contract in place again, this is, you're running a business and so doing the things that businesses do to keep themselves safe. Contracts are a huge part of it. Ndas are a huge part of it. Sometimes I have to sign an NDA in order to audition. 

20:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, yeah exactly. 

20:06 - Danielle Famble (Guest) There needs to be that sort of level of secrecy and security. So that's incredibly important and making sure that the person understands why and understands what they're assigning is incredibly important as well. So there are so many layers to it, not just oh, I need help with my marketing, let me just bring somebody in. It goes deeper than that and to your point of if it doesn't work out, have the off-ramp. How do you offload this person from your business? How do you off-board them? And understanding, like, what does that look like? And it needs to take time. 

20:39 But before you get to that point, I would ask the VO boss themselves if it didn't work out, why? If it's a personality thing, completely understand that happens too, because personality traits if you're working with someone, you need to be able to work with that person. But if it didn't work out because they weren't doing things correctly, did you train them correctly? Really understanding, like your role in it? Because, as the boss, it is your responsibility to make sure that you are running the business, your business the way that you want it to be run, and it needs to be run If the people that you've brought into your business are not living up to your expectations. Did you set the right expectations, did you communicate those expectations to them, did you provide feedback on those expectations and then did you give consequences for what is going to happen if those expectations are not met? 

21:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely. I mean that is employer 101 right there. Absolutely, and that's covering yourself, and you want to make sure that you've covered yourself because your assistants have potential access to your life. I mean a lot of times like they'll have passwords to social media accounts. My accountant has the password to my QuickBooks. I mean my gosh. 

21:48 Essentially, that could be very damaging if that person was not ethical right, and so there's a lot at stake for you. Passwords, personal accounts, branding, I mean just so many things that you're going to entrust them with. And I realize that, as an employer, again, as I said, if you're that type of person that says I'm the only one that can do it correctly or I'm worried about that, that is a mental thing that you will have to step back and take a look at. If you want to hire somebody and make sure that, if that is the case now, you want to make sure that you're protected, and so that requires NDAs, that requires contracts, and again, mine were not difficult. A consult with a lawyer that had me fine tune. A template for a contract for working for me worked, and all I have to do when I hire somebody else is just change the amount they're getting paid and change the name and change the address and then have them sign it before you start giving them access to your life and your business, because that is sacred to you. 

22:44 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, and it's a vulnerable thing, like you are putting yourself knowingly in a vulnerable position where other people know intimate details about your life and your business. 

22:56 - Intro (Announcement) However, large or small you? 

22:58 - Danielle Famble (Guest) want to give out that information and if you are not prepared for that mentally going into it, it's a really hard transition to make when that person is actually there. I would say really ask yourself are you mentally prepared to be a boss of other people? Are you financially prepared to pay them and the finances not be a thing that other people? Are you financially prepared to pay them and the finances not be a thing that stresses you out, Because this entire process is quite a lot and are you ready to manage? Are you ready to share your vision and make sure that your vision is being executed by other people, that's not just you. All good stuff. 

23:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And in the end, guys, I promise you, it may be scary, it's worth it but. 

23:38 I'll tell you what it's worth it, and it's the only way, I believe, that I could have grown my business to the point that it has grown and to allow me the freedom. I'm a little bit of a serial entrepreneur and I think, danielle, you probably are too, and so it's been the only way that I've been able to really do the things that I want to do in my businesses, to progress and move forward, and it's taught me a lot. Being a VO boss number one just in my voiceover career, but also being an actual boss, has taught me so much about myself and helped me to grow personally as well as professionally. So I think it's a win-win. It's a challenge and it's scary, but it's so worth it, oh man. 

24:19 - Danielle Famble (Guest) I couldn't agree more. You learn so much about yourself when you are now responsible for other people. I'm not a parent, but I can imagine there's a very humbling sense when you become a parent, that you are now responsible for this other person and you have to think about yourself and them in a different way. Similarly with business, you learn so much about yourself, your capacity to lead, your desire to lead, your generosity, all of those things when you have someone else that you are bringing into this thing that you created your business. It is a journey. You'll run into adversity, you will have to figure it out, and then you learn about yourself how you're able to do that. And once you learn those things about yourself, the next hurdle may be just around the corner, but you know that you've been able to do it in the past. So that resilience, really that muscle builds up. It's totally worth it. I would not be able to have the business that I have if I was responsible for doing everything. You can only do so much with the amount of time. 

25:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You're only one person. You have only so many hours exactly in the day. So, oh, I love this conversation. Thank you so much, Danielle. 

25:28 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, this is great, I love it. 

25:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) For having this conversation with me. Bosses, I'm going to give a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too can be a boss. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. 

25:44 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

Join us as we dive into Anne's enlightening experience at the Podcast Movement conference in Washington, DC. Discover the critical lessons Anne learned by stepping out of the voiceover industry bubble and mingling with top podcasters and corporate reps. The BOSSES tackle the complexities of measuring podcast success, the evolving role of advertisements, and the innovative strategies that can set your podcast apart. Passion and authenticity are at the heart of this episode as we explore how genuine storytelling can elevate both podcasting and voice acting careers. Learn why being relatable and embracing video content is more important than ever for voice actors. Consistency and authenticity are key, and we provide practical tips for maintaining a successful show. Finally, we wrap up with advice on continuous personal and professional development, reminding you to stay proactive and always seek growth opportunities.

00:02 - Bonnie Marie Williams (Ad) Hi, this is Bonnie Marie Williams, and I was listening to VOBoss for years before I began working on the show. It was actually the first voiceover podcast I ever heard and I absolutely fell in love with it the energy, the humor and how much information it provides to the voiceover community. But what I love most about VOBoss is how it takes on the current topics in the industry, how it discusses things we really should be talking about, all of the positivity and how much time and energy Ann devotes to the show to make it so valuable for all of us. I mean, we just want to rock our businesses like a boss, right? So, ann, thank you for bringing me into the boss family and for all you do for bosses everywhere. 

00:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey guys, Anne Ganguzza here. Imagine a voiceover journey where every step is filled with discovery and growth. That's the path I want to work on with you, Through nurturing coaching and creative demo production. Let's unveil the true potential of your voice together. It's not just about the destination, it's about the gorgeous journey getting there. Are you ready to take the first step? Connect with me at anneganguzza.com. 

01:17 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

01:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am delighted to be here and it seems like it's been forever with my bestie, Lau Lapides. Hey Lau, how are you? 

01:52 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Hey, annie, it has been forever. It's been, I don't know, two months or whatever. It's been, but two months for us is like two years. 

02:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So much happens. It's been too long. I mean, a lot of things have been happening. I just got back from podcast movement in DC and I had a really good experience there that I wanted to share some takeaways if you didn't mind. 

02:15 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Actually, that's cool. I was going to ask you about that because so many of us and certainly us as talent as well are doing podcasts or want to do podcasts, and that kind of a movement is something we want to know about. So, please, sharing is caring. 

02:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I had a lot of takeaways. Number one was, first and foremost, it was so nice for me to get outside of my bubble, outside of my studio bubble, my dealing with voice talent, voice actors and people in the industry. Not that I don't love dealing with people in the industry, but actually going to a conference and immersing myself into a marketplace where I want to sell to right, because there are podcasters here, which, yeah, of course, I have some podcast consulting services, of course, but I mean that wasn't my primary purpose. My primary purpose was to mingle with the corporates, because, guess what, everything I do voiceover right, corporate narration, commercial all of this really directs itself to that market. And it's so nice to be able to immerse yourself in that market and just, hey guys, this might be a novel idea, but just listen, right, listen to what your potential clients need, what are their problems, what sort of frustrations are they experiencing and how can you, with your voice or your voiceover product, help them? 

03:45 - Lau Lapides (Guest) them. Annie, can you give us the infrastructure of it, because I don't know about that particular world in terms of what a trade show or a convention would look like for podcasters. What did it look like? How many folks were there? How long was it? Did you meet any like top level podcasters who we need to know about? Oh, yeah, I did. 

04:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I met celebrities. There's like celebrity podcasters the Diary of a CEO those of you that listen to podcasts. I met the scrappy podcaster. I met the guy who actually, you know, is in all the videos for Riverside too. So the conference was four days long and it was in DC, and this one in particular, it was a little bit more corporate centric. I go to two of them every year. 

04:23 The other one is PodFest, which is very much creatives like ourselves, independent creatives, a lot of hey, I've got this show and how can I make money with this show? That's really like the question on everybody's mind and I know that anybody who's ever asked me about podcasting is like, well, how can I make money? And I'm always like, well, don't bank on that right away or don't depend on that, because it is a passion project for the most part. But this show had a little more of a corporate audience, a lot of those people that are really looking to try to get an ROI, not just from the podcast but about advertising, advertisements on podcasts and those of you that listen to the VO Boss podcast know that very recently I've been actually adding some advertisements on for my own business. Now we've been doing the VO Boss podcast for about eight years and I thought well gosh, maybe it's time that I do one or two. One or two, I mean you know you guys listen to my podcast. 

05:17 I can tell you, hey, look, I also offer these things, but it's all about how do you measure success of a podcast. How do you measure if you have ads running in your podcast? Are they effective? Are people listening to the ads or are they fast forwarding through the ads? And so the overall feel that I got from the conference is that there's so many different platforms right now there's. You know how do you listen to your podcast? Is it on Apple podcast, is it on Spotify, is it on YouTube? 

05:43 And they all have their own measurements, their own stats, and so what advertisers want to know is how many people are listening to your podcast, and sometimes that's really difficult to tell unless you have the statistics. And then these statistics don't all come together so that you can say, overall I have 1 million downloads, or I know from my service provider, my RSS feed provider, how many downloads I have, and that can give you a fairly decent number. But again, they've changed the way that they've measured those stats as well. So a lot of times the corporations or the people that are advertising want to know how can I get ROI on this investment if I'm going to spend money for ads and the other thing which is really important is that there's a lot of people that do ads on podcasts and they sound very different from the podcast, right, because we've got you and me just bantering back and forth and then all of a sudden they've got hey, it's allergy season. 

06:38 - Bonnie Marie Williams (Ad) What happens? 

06:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) is, the podcast host doesn't necessarily do voiceover for a living, so what they might read might sound a little stilted, so that was really interesting to understand that. Okay, I understand how I might be able to serve them by doing ads or by helping them do their ads better, that kind of a thing, but it was really wonderful to just sit and listen and learn oh my gosh for four days all about the things that I've been doing for eight years on this podcast, and a lot of it was very validating. 

07:08 - Lau Lapides (Guest) And now the one you went to was in DC. Right, that sounds like a really large a really big one. Did you find that there were people that you could meet? That really helped you understand the road to sponsorship? And the understanding of, like, how you sell ads and how you get into that place because I think that's where a lot of early entry podcasters fall down is like they can create a great program and they can get it launched and it sounds terrific, but what happens next? 

07:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, the thing is is that you really need listenership, you really need people who follow. I mean, everybody refers to Joe Rogan, right? Of course, if you're an advertiser, you want to advertise on Joe Rogan's, but when you're first starting out, you need to first of all make sure that your content if you have a podcast and I think every voice talent should have a podcast, because, gosh, we're equipped for it, we have like really great sound already, and so it just makes sense that if you are a voice actor, it doesn't cost you anything necessarily except for your time right now. If you have a passion, talk about that. I mean, over and over and over again, what I heard as the theme is that podcasters are storytellers and guess what, so are voice actors. Yes, so if you have a topic that you're passionate about, I think you can start a podcast on. 

08:22 - Lau Lapides (Guest) I mean it doesn't have to be about voiceover. Now, when you go into podcasting because I've been doing podcasting for a number of years as well the question is you go into it because you love it, you have a passion for it, you want to educate, you want to tell a story, mm-hmm. But how do people know when and if they're ready to monetize? That's a big question. I think in the podcast world, absolutely, you've been doing it for eight years. 

08:46 That's a long time to do a podcast while you're running a business and while you're doing everything in your life yeah. So when and if you should monetize how that happens. 

08:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, you know, that's a really great question and that is, like I swear it's the question on everybody's mind, even at this conference, like how do you monetize? I mean, what are the questions that get answered right in podcast? What are the big questions of the day? The big question is how do I know who's listening? Right? How do I track my downloads? How do I grow my podcast? That's the other question, asking the same questions, right, because it is such a popular medium. 

09:23 When you get somebody like I'm going to say, joe Rogan or any of the more celebrity podcasts where you get a lot of people's ears right, listening, that is an opportunity to sell and so, while the logistics aren't necessarily quite there yet, you have to showcase that number one. You've got listenership. You've got listenership, you've got a following. Now VO Boss has a following, and it's a very faithful following, because, for me, when I was telling people about my podcast, I would say, okay, I have been a podcast for eight years and while my numbers may not be, I do have close to a million downloads. I mean very close to it. 

09:57 Actually, I haven't looked in the last few months, so I probably have a million downloads, but it's over a course of time, right, and so what advertisers want to know is how many downloads per episode are you getting, and that kind of gives them an idea of how many ears they have listening to their potential ads. And then, of course, it has to be on the effectiveness of the ad, and I had an interview with Steve Pogac, who is with SiriusXM and Pandora, talking about podcast ads. It's kind of the new area where advertisers are really interested because they've got potential ears to do the selling. Again, it's just you've got to be able to prove to those advertisers that you have downloads, and so right now you have to use the methods that are with you. I mean, there are separate methods. Apple has their own stats, spotify has their own stats, youtube- has their own stats. 

10:46 And what's interesting is that while we're doing this now on video right, whereas before we were strictly audio we're now also on video. So it's kind of like, well, let's use YouTube and put shorts out there, which is it was good, that was validation for me I heard that again and again was to use YouTube for shorts to kind of draw your audience into the audio podcast. 

11:08 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Love that when you think about like discussion about synthetic voices. 

11:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, we're in the wild wild west. Well, guess what? We're in the wild wild west of advertising and podcasting. Right, and seeing if podcasting is a popular medium, we know about that. We know that as voice actors we are primed to be great podcasters, because we've got the technical worked out already for the most part. Right, we've got the technical. And if you've studied enough, you know how to storytell. You know how to storytell, you can certainly transition to any kind of ads really well. And of course, there's the other thing. Law and I know you'll like this is that there's a lot of ads that are done with improv. Celebrity endorsements do a ton of improv while they're doing the advertisements. 

11:46 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Isn't that cool. 

11:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There's another skill that voice actors have, so it really translates well and, if nothing else, right. It costs you your time and, as you and I have discovered, right and I've discovered, after eight years of having this podcast and you since you've come on with me, people now say oh my gosh, I love listening to you guys. 

12:06 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Right. 

12:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Like they met you by listening to you on the podcast. That's absolutely a way to reach out to potential clients or potential people, no question. 

12:14 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Fantastic and I can say personally that you know, in the last two years, or however long we've been working together on the podcast, god, how long has it been? Almost two years, I think. 

12:23 It might be longer when I'm flying around and people come up to me and say I love your podcast. For a second I'm like, oh, the VO boss. They're like, yeah, you girls are great. It's a weird thing if you're not used to it, because there's that disconnect, there's that sense of disconnect from your audience that you know the audience is there, you see them, they're there, but if you're not meeting them, yeah and you don't know them, you may not hear back from them, the feedback you may not hear back from them. 

12:53 It's really incredible. 

12:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's the engagement. A lot of it was talking about engagement and again, so many parallels to voice so many parallels so many parallels. You have to engage your audience and I'm going to tell you. One of the things about podcasting is that we engage people through audio right and or video, if people are watching us, if they like to see the two of us talk to each other. It's all about engaging and being interesting, and it's either educational or it's entertaining, right? No? 

13:20 - Intro (Announcement) question Whenever. 

13:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I was watching a presentation on the stage with any well-known podcaster when they were speaking about that podcast, it was all about their storytelling and it was all about how it was their passion to talk about a particular subject, something that they loved, they were passionate about, and that's what caused and everybody's like. 

13:40 Well, how do you go viral? Right, I mean, there is no magic solution to going viral. I think a lot of it is being engaging right with your audience, and then you got to get it in front of your audience's eyes, very similar to our own businesses, right? So how do you grow your podcast audience the same way you grow your business and voice acting? Right, you've got to get yourself in front of the eyes of your potential clients or your potential listeners. So it was really so wonderful to be validated in so many different areas, because a lot of times, like you said, we're podcasting out into the air and I don't always hear anything about it unless I speak to someone and they say, oh my God, I love your podcast or I love what you said about this. 

14:19 And what's really cool is then you get the benefit, you reap the rewards of being an instrument and being able to hopefully motivate and inspire somebody. 

14:28 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It's incredible and you and I we get letters like all the time, literally every single month, that says I just want to let you know that I can't get in my booth on a Saturday morning without listening to the podcast and hearing your motivation and hearing what you have to say and on the most literal basis, you don't realize what kind of impact you can make on someone's life by just speaking and speaking a truth and speaking an experience that is maybe common to their experience, or maybe the next level to their experience, when they're stuck and they don't know where to go. 

15:04 It's incredibly powerful and I'm just honored to be a part of that. But I think you scared a lot of people when you said, or reminded us because this is not a new thing that we're also on video too. We're also on camera as well, because a lot of voiceover talent traditionally went into voiceover so that they wouldn't be on camera. They say, with all due respect, I don't want to put makeup on, I don't want to look good, I've got the face for radio. 

15:28 - Bonnie Marie Williams (Ad) I don't want to look good, right. 

15:29 - Lau Lapides (Guest) And I said no, no, you can't look at it that way any longer, because you've got to market your business, your podcast, your voice, and you have to do that on video now. 

15:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) If you think about it and this is the trend, right, also, like on camera work, right, it's not about you don't have to be beautiful and young and pretty and handsome anymore. 

15:47 It's all about authenticity, it's all about being able to engage with your audience, and so we invite right the perfectly imperfect, perfectly imperfect I want to hear and see like imperfections, because I know that I'm not alone, right, when that happens, and that's for on camera, that's for audio, that's all of that Just being able to be authentic and really communicate and reach out to your audience, just like we have to do being voice actors. It's becoming more and more and more prevalent every day. That that's really what we have to do, I mean, and that's what we like, I mean as humans, like, why do you think reality shows became so popular? I mean, it wasn't about the perfection of people on a sitcom or a drama or you know, it was real people and we're real people and we can talk about real things, and so if you guys are thinking about a podcast, please gosh don't. 

16:41 We don't need another voiceover podcast, I don't know Exactly. 

16:45 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Talk about something that you're passionate about, that you can engage with other people, and it shouldn't be any surprise that, you know, when we're auditioning as voiceover talent and we see that breakdown of relatable and real and conversational. Well, that's what we want to see as well. 

17:02 If we're seeing the visual of you. We don't want to see you on as the 70s announcer, nor do we want to see you on as the supermodel of the 80s or 90s. Really, the real person works more often as an actor and talent than the aesthetically beautiful person according to the industry, and gets cast more often because it really represents the demographic of the people. 

17:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure Right. It cuts through the chaos of something being like anticipated or expected or stereotypical right. 

17:36 - Lau Lapides (Guest) There's an empathy factor too. I mean, I want to see someone who kind of is me. There's a deeply psychological aspect to everything we see and hear in entertainment. I would gather that a lot of folks and I ask them. When they talk to me about your podcast, I say why do you like it? Why do you follow it? What is it doing for you? They say I feel like you are me, I feel like you understand me, I feel like you're almost in my head, Right Like the voice in my head, and I think, oh, that's a lot of responsibility. I better be careful what I say. Isn't that true? It is true when you talk about influencers. 

18:13 I always think of the influencer as like the young Gen Z or the young, young millennial who's on social media, but that's really not true. The influencer is anyone right who is out there in the public square and really is connecting to their audience. They can have very powerful influence, positive and negative. So be careful what you say, be careful how you present yourself, be careful and just be thoughtful about it, because you can impact a lot of people. Now, from a marketing perspective, that's great, because for the people that don't know anything about marketing or are a little scared of it, you know you can have a huge influence on people just by being visible. 

18:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely Absolutely, and it just amazed me the amount of parallels. You think I would have figured this out by now, but it was good reinforcement as I went to this conference. So I highly highly encourage you, if you can get out there, listen, find the people that you're trying to sell to, if you can get to a conference. Conferences are great because I had presentations to go to and I also had vendor booths that I could visit, right, and so the interaction. I really listened to the interactions in both instances and I noticed that when people were on stage talking about something they were passionate about, you know, I have this little pet peeve about millennials have a potential to upspeak and I'm always telling people when we're doing corporate please don't upspeak, because it makes you sound a little less confident, and I want you to be confident about your product. So, when there was the occasion for me to go to a booth and speak to someone about their product, right, and I encountered a millennial, yes, upspeak is alive and well. However, when that same millennial was up on stage and this happened on more than one occasion, right, no matter who was up on stage talking, discussing, interviewing, interacting and speaking about their passion there was absolutely no up speak. Maybe once in a while there was one word or two, but nothing that was consistent, Because I think it presented a different kind of situation and I think that as actors we need to always read those situations, like, perhaps for a commercial, you're going to have that kind of casual engagement where upspeak is absolutely desired, but maybe in another instance you need to sound more authoritative about that product or confident that you're sure that it's going to help someone and therefore maybe upspeak isn't as appropriate. 

20:35 So that was just an interesting little tidbit and, trust me, I listen really hard because, you know, I'm a coach, I want to be a better coach and so I want to be able to communicate with my potential client better. So first and foremost is listen. And you guys, even if you can't get to a conference, you can do this online, right, you can join groups that are not necessarily just voiceover groups. You can join e-learning groups, you can join a company newsletter, look at how the company talks to their potential clients, and then you can just really learn about in what situation and how you might talk, the tone of voice that you might use, the emotion that goes along with it. It could be for a quirky brand that has a little bit of humor in it. It could be for a quirky brand that has a little bit of humor in it. It could be for a brand that's a little more serious and a little more formal, a little more suit and tie kind of thing, and you adjust your performance accordingly. 

21:23 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Now, you were talking earlier to me, before we started recording about at the podcast forum. They were talking about memberships and I thought that was very fascinating, thinking about creating content and how you can get your subscription base or membership base going with supplying that content. What did you learn from that one? What did you take away on that? 

21:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) one. So that was advertisers, who again were looking to monetize, right, and so until they felt that people have the capability of fast-forwarding through an ad that might be on the podcast, However, if they need to subscribe or have a membership in order to get to that content, if let's say the content is valuable and it's something I've thought about doing for VIA Boss having a certain amount of episodes that are bonus content, which then help fund the cost, because, as we know, and as I've spoken about multiple times, this does not run itself. I mean you and I, you know it takes our and, as I've spoken about multiple times, this does not run itself. I mean you and I, you know it takes our time. And then I literally have a team of people that help me to distribute this podcast and put show notes up there, to advertise it on social media. There's just lots and lots of components to the spokes in the wheel, whatever you might call it, but there's a lot of things at play here and it's not free. 

22:34 So it's helpful to be able to recoup some of those costs and even monetize the living, make a little bit of money, because I mean, this is our time and we do talk about all the time. Law right, we need to charge what we're worth. If somebody said to me well, do you feel bad charging for a podcast when most people can listen for free? Well, you know, honestly, I've been doing it for eight years. I've given over 400 episodes for free. To be quite honest, if somebody wanted to donate three to five dollars, maybe a month. 

23:04 - Lau Lapides (Guest) I don't think that's unreasonable, I think it's fantastic. I think it's a great idea and makes total, total sense. I have a feeling that's something that a lot of podcasters are going to be doing. They're going to be interested in doing that, mm hmm, because no one really realizes except for you, annie, how much goes into it until they start doing it. 

23:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Until they do it. 

23:20 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Oh, I'll just talk. You know it's the old voiceover, read a paper and talk, but they don't really realize to produce something, yeah, something of value, something specific, something that has guests, something that has planning. Producing engineering it costs, it's an investment. Yeah, engineering it costs, it's an investment? 

23:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely. And getting yourself out of your bubble and going out and really researching the market in which you want to sell, I think is so, so, very helpful for our businesses so that we can grow and serve those businesses and voice acting. This whole industry is evolving, like as we speak, minute by minute. Things are happening on the AI and synthetic end of things in the market. The economy has a lot to do with it and we really need to understand what's happening out there and evolve along with what our clients are asking for so that we can serve them better, because we can have a great voice. But if we don't know how to serve somebody with that voice or how to help them solve their problems, then we kind of sit here just having a great voice, exactly. 

24:23 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Which is great. 

24:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But you know, then you and I can just talk with our great voices, but it may not get us anywhere. It may not pay the bills Very true, In which case? By the way, even if you don't get advertisers right away in your podcast, the fact remains that you are putting yourself out there, you're putting your brand out there, and that is a form of marketing all in of itself. 

24:42 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Do you have tips, annie, for people who want to either start a podcast or who are early like within the first year of doing their podcast of what they should be thinking about or be planning for, so that they don't fall into any holes along the way? 

24:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's a great question. The one thing that you absolutely have to be concrete on right now is kind of like your why, like why do you want a podcast and what is your topic and is it something that you can sustain? Because consistency once you get people who start listening, they expect consistency. It's like look on my run every morning I want to be able to turn on the latest podcast of right, or I want to be able to. It becomes a thing. So content creators, like everywhere, know how it's difficult to create content. It takes a lot of time. 

25:29 So figure out what it is that you want to talk about, what it is that you can consistently deliver on a regular basis to an audience. And one thing I definitely found out is that these kind of serial podcasts that only have like six to eight episodes they don't do well. They don't do well with advertisers. Advertisers don't want to invest in that because they can't expect a great return on investment. It's got to be something where your audience can grow, where you can continue to get the ear of the listener, and so really try to find your why. Try to find whatever it is that you want to talk about and then be consistent about it Now. You don't have to hire out like I do right now for my podcast. I mean, I did everything on my own to begin with, and so you can start simple and commit to what you can do and make it a priority that you deliver consistently, consistently, consistently. 

26:22 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Love that. So it doesn't have to be constant, it's just consistent, yeah, absolutely, which makes a lot of sense. And being authentic, yeah, and really caring about what your audience cares, about the pain points they have, what problems they have to solve and connect to Right. And also I would add into that that like what style you want that podcast to be in Do you? 

26:43 want to have a lot of humor. Is it very serious? Is it meditative, is it calming, like, think about the kind of style that you want to have, and are you having guests on, or is it really you speaking from your point of view? I mean, these are just kind of basic things that we have to be thinking about it from the beginning. Also, how long Like you and I are really consistent about our time, we typically go about 25 minutes per episode. 

27:08 Like how long can you talk? How long do you want to speak about your? 

27:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) topic. I mean, gosh, some are hours long. You know what I mean. Some of the best video ones are hours long where there's something visual to look at, and I think Joe Rogan's is, I don't know, an hour or two hours. I have not listened recently, but really I mean we try to keep ours. I think the stats say anywhere from about this time 30 minutes, but honestly, I think it depends on the content and what you're talking about and just really feel that out and try to make that consistent as well. 

27:36 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Well, you know, thanks for bringing this to our attention, because this is a world. It's not a new world, but it's an ever-growing world. Yes, absolutely, and it's becoming complex and very nuanced. And it's something that a lot of talent of all different backgrounds really want to know about and want to be doing and be plugged into it. 

27:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So this is kind of exciting news and I'm excited because I got another podcast that's formulating on the back end. So stay tuned, guys. Something new is coming along for me and I'm very excited. Probably be launching that sometime I don't know later this year, so look for that and I'm very excited. 

28:10 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Keep growing, keep expanding, keep creating and keep developing that's really the name of the game, isn't it? Absolutely? Throughout your lifetime, Fabulous. 

28:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thanks, law, good conversation. Thanks for asking me about it. I had a great experience and I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses and find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. 

28:39 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

This episode is all about maximizing your business potential, whether you're just starting out or already established in the market.  Learn how to leverage casting platforms for direct bookings and master direct marketing strategies. This episode is packed with actionable insights to increase your return on investment. Implementing mid-year performance reviews can be a game-changer for your business, using powerful tools like cash flow spreadsheets and client churn reports to meticulously track your financials and client engagement. Discover the added value of integrating financial data to set and achieve your financial goals, ensuring sustained success. Explore how to turn one-off projects into recurring gigs and the crucial role of tracking booking sources. Learn how to use social media, direct emails, and client referrals to build a solid client base.

00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, who says marketing can't be as creative as voice acting? With a VO Boss Blast, we're proving it can be. Let us create a marketing campaign that helps get you hired. Our master list of over 90,000 creative contacts can get your message in front of your potential buyers. Find out more at vobosscom. That's the VO Boss Blast at voboss.com. That's the Voboss Blast at Voboss.com. 

00:29 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a Voboss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

00:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Boss Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with the illustrious Mr Tom Dheere. 

00:58 - Tom Dheere (Host) Hello, hello, oh, I'm illustrious now this is very exciting. 

01:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You are illustrious, you are illustrious. Oh my gosh Tom, how's your week been? 

01:06 - Tom Dheere (Host) My week's been. It's been pretty good. It's been pretty busy. It's one of those weird times of year this is early summer when we're recording this and people are at schools getting out and people are starting to figure out. You know they get their lighting up their vacations and all that stuff. 

01:25 So you know, I'm using this time to capitalize on how I'm going to figure out what I'm going to be doing with the second half of my year, because I always, at the end of the halfway point of the year, I take a look at my voiceover business, see how it's doing, what's working and what isn't, and if I need to make any adjustments for the second half of the year. 

01:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think that's an excellent idea because, as a matter of fact, I was just this week. I got an email from my email service provider who notified me that they were going to increase the cost of my yearly fee almost like one and a half times as much, and so I was like, oh, I've got to really sit back and take a look at my return on investment, and so I think that is something that bosses need to do absolutely to make sure that their businesses are on track and make sure that their growth is happening. And if it doesn't appear that it is happening, maybe how do you evaluate growth that can happen in the future? 

02:17 - Tom Dheere (Host) So, yeah, Okay, so, oh, there's so much to talk about with this one. But, bosses, if there's one thing I want you to walk away with, is that the industry changes constantly. What used to work may not work as well as it used to, or it may not work at all anymore. In my 25 years of being in the voiceover industry, effectiveness is really the key to be a voice actor, and learning what it takes to become effective early in your journey as opposed to what's effective later on in your voiceover journey. 

02:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Like mailing CDs to potential clients. I just had to say that which I did, which I did. 

02:58 - Tom Dheere (Host) So did I. Let me tell you, my post office hated me so much because I'd come in with a lawn bag of padded mailers and they'd be like oh. 

03:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I used to have to walk to my voiceover studio for 10 miles in the snow. 

03:11 - Tom Dheere (Host) Sorry, Uphill both ways. 

03:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Uphill Anyways. So yeah, how do we determine how effective our businesses are and how do we strategize moving forward? 

03:21 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. The ultimate determiner is like how much money am I making? And it's like, okay, did I make more money than I did last year or week or quarter? So that's obviously an indicator. But that's a very broad brushstroke because, like I've noticed over the years, because I track my voiceover revenue meticulously, gig to gig, Doesn't surprise me, Tom. I know right. Not surprising that the VO strategist meticulously tracks his voiceover revenue. 

03:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There you go. Well, me too, but I have my accountant that has probably more of a hand in it than me, and then she'll report to me if I need to know things. 

03:49 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. So one thing I do like to do what's called a client churn report. So basically I look at the end of every quarter, I look at how many gigs did I have, how much money did I make, how many of them were from new clients, how many of them were from return clients, and then I look at the same quarter from the previous year to see if the amount of money new clients and old clients went up, went down or stayed the same. 

04:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now let me ask you what are you recording that data into? Do you have? 

04:23 - Tom Dheere (Host) a CRM Okay, okay, I was going to say do you have a? 

04:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) CRM. Do you have a CRM? Okay, okay, I was going to say do you have a CRM or do you have a spreadsheet? 

04:27 - Tom Dheere (Host) That I do in a spreadsheet because I have a cash flow spreadsheet which tracks every penny that goes into my voiceover business and every penny, that goes out of my voiceover business. It's a free download at voestrategistcom. You can just type in free in the search bar and you can find it and download it. It and you can find it and download it. It also helps you run reports. It's got little auto sums and I've got little formulas in there so it can help track your stuff. 

04:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's awesome, tom, and can that be integrated? Like would I be able to export reports from my QuickBooks and be able to import, do you think into that's a? 

04:55 - Tom Dheere (Host) great question. It may require some reformatting. 

04:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Finagling. 

05:00 - Tom Dheere (Host) And a little finagling, but actually I'm so glad this came up. When it comes to analyzing your voiceover business, that cash flow spreadsheet does so many things. It tracks all the money that I make. I also list all of my revenue and expense goals for the month, the quarter and the year. But here's the other fun thing that it does I have little columns where I have little codes. So, for example, there are three what I call portals in the voiceover industry. I'm sure I've talked about this before Representation, online casting sites and self-marketing which includes inbound and outbound marketing. 

05:34 So every time I book a voiceover gig, in that column I write down whether it was RE, which it was a gig I booked through my representation, if it's OC, through an online casting site, either free or pay-to-play, like Voice123. And then the last one is S-M, or self-marketing, which means did it happen as a result of a cold call or a cold email, or indirect? Is it a result of someone finding me on Google? 

05:59 Or was I referred to that client by a fellow voice actor or a fellow client, because I have clients who refer me to clients all the time and so whenever I type that in, there's a little section to the side of the spreadsheet that has, by revenue and by percentage, how much money I'm making based on the portal that I'm doing. It also does it for genre. I have a column for genres e-learning, commercial, industrial. 

06:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, that's awesome. I love this. And you say that this is a free download. 

06:25 - Tom Dheere (Host) It's a free download, that's awesome, that's a great tracker. Yeah, because it lets me know just how I'm doing with the genre of voiceover, because you can break it down by genre and you can also break it down by portal. But I'm not getting all my e-learning through one portal and I'm not getting all my explainers through one portal. 

06:44 Because sometimes I'll get an explainer through one of my reps. It's rare but it happens. But I'll get a lot of e-learning through online casting sites and self-marketing, so to be able to really look and see how my voiceover business is doing and be able to go to last year's spreadsheet and see how it's doing I love that, tom. 

07:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you have a free resource. I have to. I'm sorry I didn't have to exclaim that and interrupt you and say that, because I will tell you that I created a spreadsheet myself when I started to track auditions, to track jobs that I booked. It is a thing you do have to remember to put the information in, but it was very, very valuable to find out and I'll tell you, I love a person who can really work a spreadsheet, because you've got it all figured out already, yeah, and you've got the columns there. I mean, bosses, take advantage of this. We're going to put a link in the show notes. Okay, continue, tom. I'm sorry. 

07:32 - Tom Dheere (Host) I got so excited. 

07:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I had to interrupt you. 

07:34 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, yeah, I've been building this spreadsheet for 20 years. 

07:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, I think 2004,. 

07:38 - Tom Dheere (Host) 2005 is when I first built this spreadsheet first built this spreadsheet, so I'm looking at it right now. 

07:43 So yeah, genre so like. For example, so far this year, 23.8% of my voiceover revenue has come from e-learning. But also I do it as the VO strategist. So it also tells me how many 15 minute consults I've booked, how many one-on-one coaching sessions I've done, how many conference appearances, how many mentorship sessions, how many people bought my videos at the VO strategist. So I use it for both as a voice actor and both as the VO Strategist, because this is tracking all the money. 

08:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, good, I'm going to download it to track and ganguza business. However, I will say that there's reports that are generated off of QuickBooks or whatever your accounting software is, but I like that you have the added columns. Like I can't add a column in QuickBooks that says where did you book the job? 

08:25 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, I probably could, but I haven't done that that's why I stopped using all the accounting software in most of the CRMs, because it wasn't giving me the data that I need. Also this is a running total that I can see on my screen all at the same time. Here's another one no-transcript. 

08:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Everybody talks about that. 

08:56 - Tom Dheere (Host) I believe it's one of the most useless data points there is, and here's the reason, and you know this. 

09:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm going to agree with you, but I want to hear your reason. 

09:05 - Tom Dheere (Host) The reason why is because the casting process is so random and arbitrary. 

09:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes. 

09:11 - Tom Dheere (Host) Because the best voice actor does not always get the gig, get the gig. 

09:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes. 

09:15 - Tom Dheere (Host) And the best audition doesn't always get the gig. Like there's a great documentary called that Guy who was in that thing? And it's about 12 character actors in Hollywood and you know all their faces but you don't know any of their names and they talk about what it's like being a character actor on TV and film in Hollywood and one of them talks about the absurdity of the casting process and he says something like one week I'll get a gig because I remind the casting director of her brother-in-law. 

09:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah. 

09:42 - Tom Dheere (Host) And then two weeks later, I won't get the gig because I remind the casting director of her brother-in-law. 

09:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely so. 

09:48 - Tom Dheere (Host) we have no earthly idea what the thought process is behind a voice seeker. There's another story of how a woman cast a male voice actor and she was asked why did you cast that person? And she said he sounds like my father. 

10:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Mm-hmm. 

10:06 - Tom Dheere (Host) And then, upon further conversation, she said I trust my father. 

10:10 So, that means A I trust my father. B I want a trusting sound, for this voiceover equals C. I want someone to do this voiceover who sounds like my father Absolutely. But what if her father sounds like Gilbert Gottfried or Bobcat Goldthwait and they probably have kids? I know Gilbert Gottfried had kids, I don't know about Bobcat but and I'm sure if their children hear their voice it's a trusting I'm going to be okay, I'm safe. But that doesn't work for the rest of the universe. 

10:40 Absolutely so, that's why that's kind of an absurd thing to analyze. 

10:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I just want to tailgate off of that really quickly. I don't want to get off the track of what's my ROI. However, that's why you don't self-sabotage yourself if you thought, well, I did a great audition and I didn't book the gig, or I'm not good enough, don't let that feed into. I mean, of course, you want to be a great performer and a great actor. That always gives you, I think, the most competitive advantage. However, the casting process is wild and crazy, and anybody that's taken an audition demolition class with Law and myself we've done, I believe, six of them so far. By the way, you can check them out on the VO Boss YouTube channel if you want to watch one. 

11:20 Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason as to why you receive a job, and so I agree with you there that tracking that is not always going to give you the most useful information. However, I know people will be like, well, my booking ratio on Voice123 or my booking ratio on Voicescom. Again, in reality, all you can do, I think, is validate that you have ample opportunities, right, right, right. And within those opportunities, it would be nice if you, on average, booked a certain percentage, but again, I wouldn't let that dictate whether that is a good return on investment, would you agree? 

11:53 - Tom Dheere (Host) It doesn't necessarily dictate your worth as a voice actor. 

11:57 What it can dictate for the pay-to-play sites in particular, anne, is how effectively are you feeding the algorithms to give you the casting opportunities that you want, that you're right for, and are you effectively auditioning for the casting notices that those algorithms served up? So, with that in mind, I do track my booking ratio on Voice123. I have the $2,200 tier, so I have the second highest tier. So obviously I want to make sure there's a return on my investment. However, the number is skewed because I I'll give you a perfect example Two years ago on Voice123, I booked a gig. 

12:34 I did an audition. It was for a grocery store chain doing an internal video about produce. I think it was about bananas. You know, like, if you work in their produce department, here's how to make sure the bananas, how not to bruise them, how to check them for quality, how to display them properly, how to rotate out bananas that are going to expire or whatever. And it was one gig $550 for like a three-minute in-house thing, directed session took all of 15 minutes. It's like okay, perfect. A month later they needed one on shrimp. A month later they needed one on avocados. 

13:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I did not audition for those. You didn't have to audition, but you got the job. Yes, right, the recurring client. 

13:11 - Tom Dheere (Host) But if I wasn't on Voice123, I would not have gotten that casting opportunity. 

13:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) The majority of my work, too, is a lot of referral clients. Referrals and or clients that I got because I'm on pay-to-plays but not on a certain subscription level just because of my schedule, and so therefore I can't really count that. But I still get, believe it or not, if my profile is up there, every once in a while I will get a direct job, and then that client will come back. 

13:35 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, right. So, with that in mind, on the spreadsheet, the cash flow spreadsheet, I do have a new column where I track audition bookings versus direct bookings. 

13:45 Oh, okay, so audition bookings versus direct bookings. Oh okay. So how much did I get? Was this an audition and pray gig or was this a legacy client gig? So, just as an example as of this conversation, my direct booking percentage is 79% and my audition booking is 21%, which means roughly 80-20. Four out of every five bookings that I get, I didn't have to audition for them. Now, that is something that a lot of voice actors. 

14:10 Yeah, that tells me something about my business model and it tells me about my effectiveness in marketing, about my effectiveness in auditioning and my effectiveness in client retention, because it's one thing to book a client once, it's another thing to book a client twice, and it's another thing to book a client a few times a year for years and I have a couple clients. 

14:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, I have some clients I've worked with for decades, myself too, and I don't audition for them. 

14:33 - Tom Dheere (Host) Some of them I never auditioned for in the first place, I just sent them the demo and then they're like, okay, great, and they here's your first gig work, which is right, that's the best kind of client, isn't it? That's a regular client, the one that you don't have to market to or audition for. However, audition and pray, I think, should be part of a balanced breakfast of all voice actors, whether it's through their agents, or through a casting site, or whether it's through their marketing strategy. 

14:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Agreed Because auditioning and pray I mean. First of all, it gets you exposed to potential new clients in a multitude of ways. Because, first of all, if the agent hears you continually submitting good auditions, they might refer you to someone or they might shortlist you. Even if the client doesn't pick you, or if the client hears the audition and they may not cast you this time, they may save you for a future casting or come back to you for a different casting. 

15:26 - Tom Dheere (Host) Here's another example. So for you VO bosses who have or are considering working with Anne, you decide you want to work with Anne. You want to get e-learning coaching. You may have been in the business for a little while. You may have gotten a smattering of e-learning gigs here and there, but now you want to really hunker down, get some quality training, get a quality demo, come up with a quality marketing strategy. So you work with Ann, you get your e-learning coaching, you produce a spectacular e-learning demo and then, of course, then we say Ann, what do I do now? And then she talks to you about marketing strategies. So you start to market that demo. The other thing you do is you put that demo on your website. So you come up with a marketing campaign. I'm going to put this demo on my website. I'm going to build a list of potential e-learning clients and if you have already done some e-learning work, it's supplemented by the work you've already gotten from existing e-learning clients and then you put it out there. Direct email. 

16:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Direct email through a boss blast. Put it out there. 

16:27 - Tom Dheere (Host) Direct email, direct email through a boss blast or direct email for cold calling, exactly, posting it on social media, talking to people on LinkedIn, so on and so forth. That's where this spreadsheet and your analytics can be an extremely powerful tool, because you can decide all right, this e-learning marketing campaign is going to take one month, so the first of the month the page the e-learning landing page goes live, and then you start through the VO Boss Blast. You start scheduling and sending emails to potential current and past e-learning clients. You post content on social media, you do things on LinkedIn. Maybe you record a video on TikTok or Instagram or YouTube talking about the demo or your experience with Ann or any part of your journey which is a part of helping people see your humanity. 

17:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And, by the way, with any good coach right, I will if you provide a testimonial page. I also put demos on my YouTube channel, so there's the marketing that happens through that as well. So you're getting potential opportunities as well as my own referrals to you. 

17:27 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, so you do all of that stuff and then at the end of the month, now you can figure out. 

17:32 These are the analytics, so you can obviously go to your website, regardless of where the website was built. You should have some form of dashboard where you can look at how many times did people visit your e-learning landing page, how many times did they listen to your e-learning demo, how many times did they download? Because remember, that's the most important part of a campaign like this is to get downloads. You want people to download your e-learning demo and have it on file for when a project comes up that you would be right for. They have that demo on hand because they're not going to remember you and they're not going to remember your website. It may not be bookmarked. That's why most voice seekers and Anne may agree that most of them have a folder, a file of digital shoebox of some sort that has a pile of demos. Absolutely, and when a project comes along, because the odds of you emailing somebody your demo and the odds that they have a project that you're perfect for. 

18:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) At that time Extremely slim. It's all about timing. 

18:26 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, it's all about timing. 

18:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I just did a teachable moment all about timing. Like you just don't know when people are going to need or require your service and you can't expect that just because you got the demo yesterday that there are all these people that need something today. 

18:40 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. So you have to manage your expectations by the analytics. So should it be e-learning bookings in that one month? I don't think that would be fair to you because it's extremely unlikely. What you can look at is how many times did they go to your website, how many times did they listen to that demo? How many times did they download that demo? How many emails were opened and clicked on? 

18:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You brought up a really good point. Is that? Okay? So a boss blast. You can go to the VO boss page to find out more about the Boss Blast. But the Boss Blast is simply allowing to cast the net out into a potential audience that could have a need, and you don't know exactly at what time that need is. So there's that direct marketing from the Boss Blast. But also I love the point that you brought up about the website. 

19:23 Bosses, you have a website, it is a tool, it is your storefront. It is your responsibility to have enough knowledge about that tool so that you can go find out, like did somebody download my demo? How many times has the page been visited? Right? Because, just as there is with the Boss Blast, we have statistics. I can work with you, like when we send out a campaign, we have all the stats, we know who it was sent to, we know who opened it and we know who clicked. Now, once they get to your website right, they can click either the demo that's there or they can click on your website, and so once they do that, that's it. I just know that they've gone to your website. 

20:00 Now, on your website, you need to be responsible for how many times has that been downloaded, how many times has that page been visited? And that can really help to see who's listening to your demo and what your booking ratio could be after that. And so those stats are important to know. So if you do not know how to access the back end of your website and we will have a podcast probably very shortly on just websites you must make it a point to educate yourself, and if you've had a website designer that did that for you, then you must either ask them how do you find out these stats right? Can they set up Google to actually allow you to see those stats, so when people visit your website, that you can find those stats and just know that, even if you may not be technically minded, you should really educate yourself on how to find that information out. That's important stuff to know. Sorry, I'm on my soapbox there, but gosh, it's so important. 

20:52 - Tom Dheere (Host) No, that's amazing advice, Anne. Now here's the next part about this is here's some real life, practical real life experience that I have had this year is that one of the genres that I've been focusing on in 2024 is political. Over $10 billion is being spent on political marketing and advertising this year, so I updated my political demo. I've already had a list of political contacts because I've been marketing myself as a political voice actor since 2022. 

21:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Are you direct marketing yourself, or are you on a roster as well? 

21:24 - Tom Dheere (Host) Both, I'm on rosters, but I'm also direct marketing. I did a direct marketing, I did a direct marketing email blast, updated my political landing page and I sent out, I'd say over the past month and a half, roughly 150 emails to production companies that are dedicated to and specialize in creating political content radio, tv, digital streaming that require a voice actor. And do you want to guess how many replies I got to this? 

21:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) email of 150?. Oh, I can imagine. 

21:54 - Tom Dheere (Host) I can imagine the answer is zero, zero Now. At first I freaked out. 

22:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But did you get hired? 

22:01 - Tom Dheere (Host) No. 

22:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Ah, okay, not yet. 

22:03 - Tom Dheere (Host) Okay. So the question is what's going on? So, after some reflection and talking to other political voice actor friends, is they are so busy. These political production companies are so busy they do not have the time to open, much less read, any of my emails, much less click on the link download the demo or reply. 

22:26 They don't have the time because everything has gone bananas this year, so because the debates have started the conventions are starting soon and then everybody's going to go crazy, from the presidential election all the way down to dog catcher and everything in between. However, I do have some existing clients who just send me work. They're like hey, here's another one, Can you do it today? Hey, I've got these five spots. I need them by first thing in the morning. 

22:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Is that going to stop you from sending a direct email in the? 

22:55 - Tom Dheere (Host) future? No, not at all. 

22:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I wanted you to make that point. 

22:57 - Tom Dheere (Host) Because this particular genre at this particular time of year. I have now, through experience, learned to manage my expectations about what's going to happen Because, like nowadays, if you're doing a direct marketing email, if you're getting one, to 2% of people replying to you, you're doing good, that's awesome. 

23:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that's what I tell my boss blast people yes, if you're getting one to 2% click or open you used to look for. If you get a 10% open rate and then 1% click rate. 

23:26 - Tom Dheere (Host) Those days are over. 

23:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah Well, 1% is good. So, yeah, it's absolutely good. But there's still again if you know your audience and you know what to write to them, it's still effective. I would still say there are still people that open their emails and there's always that chance. 

23:39 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, so the point is just because they didn't reply to your email. I guarantee there's a folder in their Gmail or their inbox where they just took that email and just dragged it into that folder. 

23:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, which is why when I go through stats with people because we will go through who opened it and who clicked on it but then after that you don't know what they're going to do with it and, honestly, unless you're hacking into their systems, you really don't know if they've put it into a folder or not. I love the fact that you also are mentioning that you have to manage your expectations. Again, it's about timing and managing expectations as well, but that initial data can really help you to find out is it worth your investment? 

24:18 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. So the aforementioned e-learning direct marketing campaign that you do from the Boss Blast yeah, looking at how many people opened it, how many people clicked on the demo, how many people downloaded the demo, which, if you're using a good CRM like there's a bunch of great CRMs out there which we could talk about in another conversation it can give you a good idea of what's going on. 

24:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They don't have to download the demo either. They could just play it. Do you know what I mean? That's the other thing too. And they keep the email without downloading the demo. 

24:44 - Tom Dheere (Host) So again, it's like everybody has different habits. Some people will save the email, not open it. Some people will save the email, open it. Some people save the email, open it. Click on the demo, listen to it, but not download it. 

24:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Some people save the email and then forget about it right so that you need to consistently right every once in a while. 

25:00 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, do a follow-up every few months. Do a follow-up in that top-of-mind email, right, Right. So the lesson here, bosses, is that analytics don't always tell the story. You can't live or die by your analytics, but at the end of a year I can look and go, okay. Here's a trend Right. Here's an example 2023, looking at the three portals. So last year, 12% of my voiceover revenue came from my representation, 49% came from online casting sites, 23% came through direct marketing strategies, 16% came through indirect marketing strategies. 

25:38 Now, if you look at five years ago 2019, I had my representation percentage was one or 2%. 

25:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, and I would say your pay to play your roster was high pay-to-play was non-existent because I wasn't a paid member of oh, that's right. At that time I took a long break because in the beginning I had a high percentage rate right, but my direct and indirect marketing strategy was like 81, but I also made 20% less in 2019 than I do in 2024. 

26:10 - Tom Dheere (Host) So how did me going from focusing on direct and direct marketing to focusing on online casting sites, increase my representative percentage? What happened? What are the analytics? This is my theory. In 2019, I auditioned 450 times. The whole year 2023, I auditioned 1,854 times. I got better at auditioning. Voice123 made me a better auditioner because I got reps in. Also, it helped me keep a better idea on casting trends. What are people? 

26:40 - Intro (Announcement) looking for. 

26:41 - Tom Dheere (Host) How can I read a casting notice and match it up with who I am and what I can provide as a problem solver, as a voice actor? That fed into increasing the quality of my representation auditions. I got better auditioning on online casting sites and, by extension, I got better at auditioning for my reps. So that's why I went from like 1% or 2% in 2019 to, five years later, booking 12% of my revenue. 

27:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. I think it's kind of like goal setting right If you don't write it down. It's kind of like in your head you're like but I've auditioned, but I've sent my direct marketing email, or I've sent my emails and I've done my marketing, but in reality if you're not writing it down or recording it, it's really hard to track what you've done. I mean, it wasn't until I started tracking my auditions and where I was booking and it helped me to determine a genre. Oh, I should pursue more work in this area. There's so many things you can learn from it, from just recording it. So consider it like a goal right. Consider that document recording and gosh, it doesn't get any easier than downloading a free template from Tom. 

27:42 - Intro (Announcement) Dheere's website. 

27:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's for darn sure. I mean really. This has been such an enlightening conversation, tom. I mean the amount of information you can find out just by tracking your return on investment where are you auditioning, where are you spending your money, where are things happening can really inform you to make great decisions about how to evolve and how to move your business forward. So do it, guys. Download that document and understand that, yes, this is a marathon, not a sprint. We'll probably say that for every podcast that I work with with you, tom. I mean, I say that all the time, but you guys it is. Tom, thanks so much for your invaluable wisdom on this. I love that you're such a geek about all of this, and if anybody can produce a really cool spreadsheet, I'm sure it's Tom Dheere. 

28:22 - Tom Dheere (Host) I am a happy mutant, so yeah. 

28:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network, connect and download documents like a boss. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Thanks, tom Bye. 

28:40 - Intro (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

00:01 - Tolu Kolade (Ad) Hi Anne, my name is Tolu Kolade. I am a Nigerian and I love your podcast. I listen every week and I discovered it last year and I must say it has been an incredible eye-opener for me, helping guess what. You inspired me to also create my own podcast, which is also based on voiceovers. So I love what you do and keep doing what you do, thank you. 

00:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, are you struggling with that ever elusive, real, conversational, authentic, like you're talking to your best friend, Reed Book? Coaching with me and I'll help you take your voice over to a real and believable place. Find out more at anneganguzacom. 

00:54 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

01:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with the lovely Lau Lapids. Hey, Annie. Always happy to be back in the sack Lau. You are so lovely. You know what this week I've been thinking there are so many of my students and I'm quite sure that this happens to you frequently, being an agent and being a coach is that people are always trying to put on these particular voices right, that they feel like should be the voiceover voice right, and I know we've done episodes on this and we sound like maybe a broken record or maybe bosses out there. 

01:54 You've heard this before. We really love your original voices. I think there's so many people that get into voiceover because they feel like they've got these great voices in their head, they can do great imitations and then when they get behind a mic, they perform and in reality, what most people want, I think, and what I demand from my students is give me your voice, because that pretty voice just is super boring. What are your? 

02:21 - Lau Lapides (Guest) thoughts on that Lau. Yeah, we were just talking about this just a moment ago that casting directors and agents are really, really now looking for the real voice, the real sound, and we've been doing some animation in-house workshops and talking to animation casting directors who are saying 80% of the talent that they are hiring now for big feature film and TV series are their voices. It's their voices, real voices, their real voices. It reminds me of when we saw the earlier animations of like the 90s and the 2000s, when we saw the Ice Age and all of that. We'd see the A-list actor personalities Queen Latifah and Ray Romano and all of that, and they were them and they of that and they were them and they were recognizable and they were them and you thought, wow, why aren't they putting on a character? They're actors, they can put on a character. Well, why would they? They have a huge following. We want to hear their voice. 

03:17 We want to know who they are. So I think some of those trends started with some of the A-listers, the Tom Hanks that came in and really provided their everyday sound for these heightened, larger-than-life characters in commercial as well. 

03:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know, I always wonder, like, what is it about voiceover, when I get my students in? 

03:39 - Intro (Announcement) What is it? 

03:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) about when people first start, when they think that we don't want to hear their voice. They're always like and now I'm going to read a medical narration and I'm like no, like, no, I don't want to hear it like that. I want to hear your voice telling me or educating me about it in a confident way, but I don't want to hear this hi, this kind of air that they have and that they put on their voice. And I think a lot of times people like listen to what they hear out there. There's a lot of that out there and that's kind of unfortunate because that gives people preconceived notions of what is the right way to sound. There is no right way to sound. I think there's really just your way and your genuine way to sound, and that's what we find so intriguing, it's true. 

04:25 - Lau Lapides (Guest) And many of us too, at least in our generation. We grew up on Disney and we grew up on programming where we did hear those sounds. That was in our heads. As little kids. We were imprinted with those sounds and we had the bedtime story when we heard Snow White and Cinderella. And when we grew up with the fairy tales, the folklore, we heard those exaggerated character and sometimes even caricature sounds in our cartoons as well. Many of our cartoons as well were over the top, larger than life, over the top unrecognizable to who that person was. So there was a style of those times that doesn't translate quite as well to these times. These times are much more real, authentic, down to earth, relatable. All the things that you see in the specs of your breakdown, of your auditions for like a commercial, you're also going to see the heightened characters as well. So be prepared for that Like. Start to be at home with what your authentic sound is. 

05:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And then I'm going to add on top of that right, be comfortable with your voice, embrace your voice, and embrace your voice in all levels of emotion and point of view, because that's where I think a lot of times people will think but I sound so flat and I sound so boring and I'm like but you're not when you talk to me right in this session that we're having right here. When you talk to me, you're not boring, you're not flat at all. There's a dynamic to your voice, there's emotion, there's point of view, and I think that's the real key right there is bring you with that point of view and that emotion that really brings the story to life. 

06:04 I talk to my students all the time and I say we all, we tell stories all the time and when we do that, we have evolving points of view that happen throughout the story, right From maybe the beginning of your sentence starts in one point of view and then it ends up in another because, oh my God, you're not going to believe what I did last night and let me tell you. 

06:25 And so, in reality, like you can be excited, you're not going to believe what I did last night and let me tell you. And so, in reality, like you can be excited, you can be exaggerated and then mysterious, and then like, well, first of all, this unfortunate thing happened, but then, oh my gosh, right. And so your emotion is evolving as you tell the story and I feel like that can be in your voice, and it allows your voice to have many different textures and many different sounds that are very much authentic and not character-y, that's right and the truth is is like when we're in a conversation, whatever that conversation is, it would be the last thing that comes to our mind Oftentimes what we sound like or what we look like Because we're thinking of other things. 

07:02 - Lau Lapides (Guest) We're connecting to the person. We're thinking of where we're going. Next we're talking of other things. We're connecting to the person. We're thinking of where we're going. Next, we're talking about our cat. We're doing whatever we're doing, but we stop the action, we stop the authentic doing. When we go into process and start looking at critiquing, criticizing, ripping apart whatever action verbs you want to use, when we look at ourselves and listen to ourselves, that's when we break the chain of the actual connection. So if a casting director says to you after an audition disconnected, you aren't connected that means you were in your head, you were thinking about lines, copy, or what you sound like or the mechanics right, like you're not at that last final destination yet You're not with me, yet You're not in the room with me, you're inside of yourself, and so that, to me, is a quick indication. 

07:51 If you're saying what did that sound like? Did I sound real? I already know you didn't sound real. You didn't sound real because we wouldn't be thinking about sounding real. We would be thinking about persuading that person to get the prescription medication that they really need so that they don't die. Right, we're not thinking about did I sound authentic? 

08:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) talking to them about the medication. 

08:13 And I think a lot of it is. When we get those words in front of us. That's what throws everybody off right, because all our lives we've been trained to read out loud, right, to read out loud. I say that three times again read out loud, which is nothing like acting, right, reading out loud is nothing like acting. And so I have so many people are like but I don't understand, like, how do I connect to it? I would never say that. 

08:35 And again, that is our job is to make those words sound believable and create the scenes in which those words would come out of our mouths in a believable and authentic way. And so you have to stop looking at the words as if they are words. There has to be so much more beyond those words on the page Right, and I think a lot of times I emphasize what's almost more important is it's easy to figure out who you are if you're just you, right, you're you. You're representing a company, you're trying to convince somebody that this is a great product or whatever it is you're trying to do, but really thinking about the person you're talking to. Like, have empathy. I say this so many times is that empathy is like number one rule, I think, for being really engaging and understanding who it is that you're talking and being able to connect with them, because having empathy and understanding what are their pain points, how is it that your product is going to help them? Is going to really, I think, help you to tell that story or be more authentic sounding. 

09:32 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Yes, no question about it, and you and I have that sensitivity about the word read. Read is kind of like it's not in our realm to read. We don't read for a living. We read scripts. We have to read scripts. Not in our realm to read, we don't read for a living. We read scripts. We have to read scripts. 

09:46 Yes, the brain process is the reading of it, first for comprehension's sake, yes, and then, once you're comprehending what is being done, you're processing it. You don't want to go into auditions and you don't want to go into recording sessions. Processing it, that's before. And then, as you process it, you get to your interpretation. Then now we're talking, now we're talking, then you want your interpretation to start, come out into your delivery. So, allowing that time, allowing the brainpower to happen, allowing that, to say my reading is at the beginning of the process. It is not when I'm auditioning or when I'm working on a gig. I'm not reading. In fact, I should even know the copy is the truth. Really, great actors who are doing voiceover copy half of them are not even reading it. They're just already interpreting it and memorizing it because they're actors for on camera, so they're taught to memorize. 

10:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and memorization is helpful if you've got a short script. However, a lot of the genres that I deal with it's not a short script and it's not practical necessarily to memorize. However, I will say that you're doing something similar. Not necessarily you're not memorizing, but you're reading far enough ahead, right, so that you understand where did the story go. Right, Because you got to know where the story ends up, so that you can like formulate how it begins. It's like you can't tell a good story unless you know that story, and so you can't evolve a point of view unless you know, like, where you're going with it. Really, you can discover it along the way if you have really well-written script. Really you can discover it along the way if you have really well-written script, right, or if you have easy-to-understand script. 

11:20 And I'll tell you a lot of times, in commercial copy or corporate narration copy or e-learning copy, it's not the easiest script. A lot of times it's not a dialogue between two people, which I think is the easiest to understand. Right, and to be the most comfortable with sounding like you're talking to someone is if you're actually reading copy that's written that people are talking to someone. When you have copy that's written in any other kind of format like second or third person, then it becomes a whole different story. How are you making that sound like you're actually talking to someone? Because it's not written in a dialogue format. And so that's where I think the disconnect comes for a lot of people, when they don't know where they are in the scene and they don't know who they're really talking to. They haven't thought about it or researched it or analyzed it. They then just read the words and then it becomes very neutral. 

12:08 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It becomes neutralized, and that's fascinating. In your daily conversations too, I think you'll notice that people stop speaking when they're processing information, and a lot of times I'll have people. My husband says this to me all the time. He said stop bulleting thoughts at me, I'm still processing what you said earlier. I can't. I can't interpret what you're doing right now. It's too fast for me, so would you say stop bullying. 

12:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Did he say stop bullying? 

12:31 - Lau Lapides (Guest) your points at me no bulleting, bulleting, Like shooting it at me, like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, that kind of thing. But in the daily conversation of many people you're actually not processing quite as fast, especially new information or technical information. 

12:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And so it would be unfair. 

12:49 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It would be unfair to say, well, give me emotion about it, give me a feeling about it, which I do to him all the time. Tell me how you feel. He said I don't know how I feel, I'm still processing it. So that's the lesson of the day. Is like. That makes sense. If you're not emoting authentic feeling, it's because you're still processing it and you've got to do that first. You've got to get through that first. That is not the end, though. 

13:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's not the outcome. The top layer is your emotion, is your point of view. That is what brings your unique perspective and your unique read and what casting directors are looking for, usually all of the time right, they're looking for that All of the time. 

13:25 Bring you to the copy. What does that really mean? Well, that means bring a point of view to that copy, and bring a point of view that makes sense. I mean, obviously, if you're championing a product, you want to make sure you're championing a product and you're not like angry or miserable about it unless the dialogue calls for it. So you need to get to that last layer, which is that evolving point of view, which makes the connection and really allows people to also comprehend what you're saying easier. 

13:53 Because if you're neutral, if your point of view is just like hi, I'm going to read the words really nicely and very consistently and I'm not really going to put any sort of emotion on it, and I'm going to do this for the next two minutes, right, and I sound like a voiceover artist, right, but in reality you haven't told the story, you haven't allowed anyone to hear that and then process it. You haven't helped them in their comprehension, typically like as you and I are talking today. Right, I'm like well, I don't go. Well, we've got this right, I don't go well, we've got this Annie that sounds excellent to me. 

14:31 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Yes, yes, it does. 

14:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And it helps really people to hear and comprehend and understand what you're saying so much better than a simple like run-of-the-mill, medium, neutral kind of a read which most people seem to do on long-format narration copy. They tend to think it's like a documentary, but in reality, the focus of you, if you're actually doing a documentary and I always tell people like what's the difference, it's written like a documentary. Why should I not sound like a documentary? Well, typically with a documentary and those of you that love documentaries, such as myself, you're watching a video which completes a story. For you, there's a visual right and there's also music maybe, which also helps in the story right. 

15:10 Your voice is simply supporting the documentary. So you need to just be able to tell the story, no matter what the media is underneath you, and the best kind of story to tell is one that's real and authentic. And that's why I think so many casting directors and correct me if you think I'm wrong, but I think so many people ask for that real read, because you can put any kind of music under a real read. You can put any kind of video under a real read and it will work. You can put any kind of video under a real read and it will work. You put something really dramatic and if somebody's like hey, this is the story and I'm going to tell it to you, like it really is Right, you can put dramatic music behind that, you could put dramatic visuals and it works. And you can also put something that's very soft and not dramatic and that storyline still works. 

15:50 But if you're dramatic and you're fighting with other dramatic elements of a production that doesn't always work. 

15:56 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Nope, doesn't always work. Doesn't always work. That's a good little formula to think about. And then I want to take a couple steps back and say, okay, here we go to the tough stuff. And that is before you even do anything meaning reading, prospect, audition or copy how do you feel about yourself? How do you feel? Ooh, we're getting deep. How? 

16:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) do you feel about yourself? 

16:16 - Lau Lapides (Guest) How do you feel we're getting deep? How do you feel about what you have to say, how you say it, how you feel about it, how you feel in your life, because that is also going to be transmitted as well through all of this. You lack confidence, you lack self-esteem, you lack your know-how about who you are as a person. The more you're going to be freaking out about the work that you're doing, you're just always going to feel like you're never bringing it. You're never bringing it to the table and you're going to start to become super biased and super, super, highly critical about yourself, where you can no longer trust your self-direction. 

16:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, I hear that a lot from some students that come into the industry and they try to sound a particular way, right, and they think do I have what it takes? I get that question probably on a daily basis, right, do I have what it takes? Well, do you have what it takes to be brave enough to bring you yourself to the party? 

17:11 - Intro (Announcement) right. 

17:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And if you do, if you have the courage to do that right. There's a lot of people that don't have the courage and they hide behind that voice, they hide behind that persona. That is hi, I'm the voiceover voice and that is almost like a. It's almost like a false confidence, right? 

17:26 lau or it's like oh, it's a mask I'm sounding it's a mask, it's a mask which is how interesting I always say a lot of character actors are very confident, right, and it's always really like when we listen to character acting, it's easy to become more emotional, right, because we are a character, it's a dialogue and we can formulate those emotions. They're kind of written into the copy for us. But when we're talking about some other type of copy, which may not be obvious, right, may not be, you know, a commercial, oh, I don't want to sound too selly, right, that's what I know about being selly, right, be a real person, don't sound announcer-y. Well then, that's my emotional like. I guess starting point, right, but in reality you've got to do more work to figure out that story, to figure out where your emotion lies. If all you know is that you can't be announcer-y and you can't sell and you need to sound, you're talking to your best friend. You need more work than that. You need to do more work than that to tell the story, right, lau. 

18:23 - Lau Lapides (Guest) No doubt about it. Okay, so that's the honesty that you need, and sometimes you don't possess it. So that's where we always say circle yourself with great people to help you figure out what your most authentic you. And delivery is and connection is, because sometimes we don't see it, we don't know what it is, we don't know how to reach it We've never heard it and it takes years sometimes to get to, and that's OK. 

18:48 Have patience, but you really do, as you said, have to have the courage, the bravery, to say I need to feel something about this, I need to care about something, I need to connect with who I'm talking to, because I was just working with a client yesterday, coaching, and they were literally what was it about? Oh, it was an adult acne product. It was like an infomercial type thing and this talent is so talented, it's like so gifted, so wonderful, was not connecting in any way. And I turned that into her sister having adult acne and, surely enough, the onion peeled. And then all of a sudden it came to her after almost an hour. She said I think I'm just going to talk to her because she really does have this problem actually and it really does bother her. 

19:32 And I'm like you have to think about what's at stake for the people or person that you're talking or discussing with. Anytime you're going to sit down and have coffee or go to your diner and have breakfast. You're going to talk about a lot of stuff with your people and there's always something at stake. What's at stake? Are you talking? 

19:50 - Intro (Announcement) about politics? 

19:51 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Are you talking about religion? Are you talking about sexuality? Are you talking about finances? High stakes on all of those. High stakes on all of those. Your kids going to school high stakes on all of those. So why would we not think about that and connect with all the scripts that become in front of us Because there's stakes to those scripts, right, Absolutely. 

20:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love the way that you phrase that that there's stakes to that. There is. There's a reason why the words are there in front of you and you have to discover there is. There's a reason why the words are there in front of you and you have to discover really what those stakes are Like. Why, why are you talking? Purpose is so important, really. I mean, purpose is so important. If you don't understand the purpose of why you're saying something, it's kind of like, well, let me just gloss over the words, then it drives us, it's our lives. 

20:35 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It's like that's why so many actors will say who are career actors? They'll say what else would you have liked to do? They say I don't know. I do what I have to do, I do what I love to do and I do what I need to do. So there is the authenticity. It's not I'm doing this because I want to sound a certain way. 

20:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm doing this because I want to look a certain way Right. 

20:58 - Lau Lapides (Guest) We don't want a doctor that looks good and sounds good, we want a doctor that can help us with our health. 

21:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, you know, I like that analogy because we don't want a doctor to look or sound good Like. When I go to a doctor and I connect with a doctor, I want him to help me, I need him to cure me, right, and that is the underlying reason as to why I'm listening to him in the first place, right, and if he's not addressing my needs, if he is all concerned about how he looks and or how he sounds when he's telling me about it, I'm not going back to that doctor. And so guess what? That's why we need that in advertising. We need you to be able to connect with that potential client when you're talking about that product, because there is, there are high stakes I love how you put that. There are stakes and what are they and understand your purpose for telling somebody about this product or talking about this product, or communicating with someone and empathizing, right, empathizing yes, I know that you're upset that you have. You know what I mean. Adulterated acne is not fun. I had it. 

21:54 It was just like shouldn't I have been over this by now? You know, I mean it is just a thing. 

21:59 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It's devastating actually, and acne of all ages is devastating to the people who are experiencing it. It's stigmatizing, it's all of those things. So it's like when you think for a moment of what that's like to go through, that will help you connect in a really personalized way. I think personalization is a part of it too. Personalization is a part of it too. So even if it's a business read of some kind or maybe it's a how-to, like how do I organize my closet, there's a personalization about that, like how do I go through the process, how do I feel about it, what does it do for me? And it's a truly deeply psychological process. We see that in all the shows, from hoarders to organizing to everything. 

22:38 We have a lot of emotion, a lot of memories, a lot of psychology in our closet as an example, right. So there is almost nothing that I can think of that doesn't have high stakes to it for someone who is involved with it. It may not for me, but it will for someone else. 

22:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I want to reiterate that that applies across the board, really for any script. It applies for medical narration, it applies for corporate narration. Again, people have such misguided thoughts about what is corporate narration or what is medical narration. Well, I'm just going to deliver the information articulately and clearly and teach somebody. In reality. No, there are stakes. Companies have products to help people to solve a problem and you've got to understand what that is. 

23:23 Medical narration is all about either education or you're selling to solve a problem, that somebody needs to come to the hospital because you have the latest technology to help with their recent cancer diagnosis. You know that's high stakes. You're educating young doctors about the process of electrocardiograms because you may save a life right. There's high stakes to all of that and in getting to understand the purpose and what those stakes are is going to be what helps you connect and what helps you be the better reader, even if you've never heard it that way before. You're not coming to myself or Lau to be coached to give a pretty read. You can do that all on your own and, as a matter of fact, I don't want you if that's. All you want to do is a pretty read. 

24:07 - Lau Lapides (Guest) No, I don't want it either. It's not authentic? 

24:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No, it's not authentic and that's not what I can help you with the most, because you don't need me. I'm not going to have you give. Give me your money for that. Give me your money if you want to really sound connected and really understand how to evaluate your scripts and analyze your scripts and understand those stakes and then bring that script meaningfully to your audience Right and, if a talent says well, I don't know much about this industry or I don't know if I feel anything about it. 

24:35 - Lau Lapides (Guest) I'd say two things to that. I'd say three things to that. Number one you can train with us and become an actor, and an actor should be able to connect to every world in the world. And number two if you don't think you can connect, go to a big building downtown in the area you live in and just walk in the lobby. Don't look scary or creepy, just walk in the lobby and just like, have a cup of coffee in your hand and sit in the lobby and watch the people, listen to them. How do they feel? 

25:13 How do they dress? Are they moving fast? Are they on their cell phones? Are things busy for them? Are they moving and shaking? Try to capture that as you're looking at your script, because that's the organization, that's the industry, that's the thing you're talking about and the people you're connecting either to or you are posing as right. Do that little bit of work. I know Johnny Depp did that for years and years as an actor. 

25:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) He would physically like go live in the culture and you couldn't talk to him for like a month until he figured it out right and, in addition to that, go ahead and research the product, Research the company, Sign up for their mailing list. You're going to find out a lot. Go to their YouTube channel or just talk to someone. 

25:56 - Lau Lapides (Guest) How about talk to someone. Annie, just talk to someone and say hey, I'm not a solicitor and I don't want to freak you out. Can I talk to you for five minutes? Because I'm an actor actually and I might be hired by this organization and I kind of just want to hear what your life is like when you work in the office in the day. 

26:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) How do you feel about this company? How do you feel about? 

26:12 - Lau Lapides (Guest) the product that you offer. That's going the extra mile. Why not? 

26:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I guarantee you you might have somebody who would actually enjoy talking about it. 

26:20 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Oh my God, They'd be excited. They'd say how do I know you? 

26:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But yeah, especially if you say look, I'm not here to freak you out, I just I'm an actor and I might be hired. So I just I'm curious to get your opinion. What is life like at this company? Are you stressed? I mean, do you love the product? 

26:43 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Do product. What can you share with me? That's a good idea. I like that. Isn't that a great idea? By the way, annie, we just did one on podcasts, and when you're talking about self-promotion, you're talking about self-producing, you're talking about becoming a business Like why not be the guy or gal on the street that does a one-minute interview with someone who's on the street coming out from the building, right? Some of our biggest podcasts and some of our biggest programs were built out of kids that said hey, I want to talk to entrepreneurs, let's go around and let's just drive around, let's just talk to them and put the best ones on. 

27:09 Oh, we love that stuff, we love that stuff, right? 

27:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yep, in business, people love to talk about them. They do, they do. For the most part, they love to talk about themselves, right, especially if you make them feel important and guess what? Guess what our entire job is as voice actors, right. 

27:23 - Lau Lapides (Guest) They love it. 

27:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) To make our potential clients or whoever it is we're talking to right about that product, to make them feel important. It's all about them. It's not about us or how pretty we sound when we talk about it. It's about them and how we're going to help them be better, look better, make more money, do all the things and make them the richest, most popular adults. I mean honestly, if you think about it, it's all about them. That's why we listen. 

27:44 When we put our attention towards anything, it's kind of egocentrical. It's like what do I need? What am I going to get out of this? Am I going to learn something? Is this going to give me a sale on a product that I've been looking to buy, or is it going to give me information about the product that I've been meaning to find out what's in it for me? Yeah Right, what's in it for me? And so you need to, as the voice actor representing you need to tell them, like, here's what's in it for you. I'm here to help. I'm here to deliver this information to help you. I'm not here to sound good, necessarily Well, maybe I will sound great while I do it, but I'm more sincere about wanting to help you. 

28:16 - Lau Lapides (Guest) So we just gave like a ton of tips about how you can actually sound authentic, and that is to live the authentic. And I like to say too go to lunch, go to dinner, go to coffee, go to tea. It's not about spending money, it's about going to places where you can sit with people and really talk to them. Talk with them and to them and about them, with them and to them and about them. And that's how you learn. How to talk authentically is to really be in conversation with people that you're fascinated by, you're interested in, or you want to help, or you want them to help you right. 

28:50 We're not just the end-all, be-all helpers. We get a lot of help from them as well, so we get a lot of information from them that is very usable for us. 

28:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love how this conversation went. I mean, it's just really brought up some really great new ideas for you know, you guys, and how you can really continue to develop as an actor and continue developing your authenticity and making those words really come alive. 

29:14 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It's a conversation about conversation. 

29:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There you go, all right. Well, I'm going to have a conversation about my sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and communicate like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week, lau. Thank you so much, and we'll see you guys next week. Bye, see you next week. 

29:36 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

Val Kelly, the brains behind the Mid-Atlantic VoiceOver Conference, joins Anne Ganguzza in a special BOSS preview of MAVO. The BOSSES discuss Val's journey into voiceover, the challenges and lessons learned from organizing the conference, and the evolution of MAVO over the years. Her passion for the craft is evident as she discusses creating her own company to champion voice actors, offering a fascinating glimpse into the challenges and rewards of hosting a successful conference. The BOSSES shares insights on adapting to online events, the importance of providing educational resources for voice actors, and the exciting lineup of speakers and sessions planned for the upcoming conference. With a diverse lineup of guests, this year’s conference is a great event for anyone looking to elevate their skills and overcome the industry's evolving challenges. VO BOSSES can save $75 by using the code VOBOSS at checkout when purchasing your MAVO tickets

00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, Anne Ganguzza here. Are you ready to take the next step in your voiceover career? At Anne Ganguzza Productions, I specialize in target marketing, coaching and demo production. That gets you booked. If you're thinking about elevating your performance or creating an awesome demo, check me out at anneganguzza.com. 

00:24 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

00:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited and happy to be here with a very special guest voice actor and owner, president and very boss CEO of the Mid-Atlantic VoiceOver Conference, Val Kelly. Yay, hey, hi, val, it's so wonderful to have you here today. 

01:08 - Val Kelly (Guest) Oh, thanks so much for having me on your show. I really appreciate it. 

01:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, and I'll tell you what I am so excited to talk to you today. Number one, first of all. So what does it take to be boss and CEO, not only just being a voice actor I know a lot of people that listen to the Boss podcast for us to be successful voice actors, but you're also an educator, which I love, and also to run a conference. Now my husband I'll just say my husband works, he's an event manager for multiple companies for many years and I know what it takes to run an event and it's no small task. So I'm excited to talk to you about yourself and what it took for you to become such a CEO of such a great event, and I'm excited. I'm going to let you talk, I swear I'm excited because it's my first year presenting with Amevo. So I'm very excited to do that this year and I'm already planning my wardrobe. 

02:03 - Val Kelly (Guest) Oh my gosh, same same. 

02:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right, what am I going to wear? So I'm very excited how many outfit switches. 

02:09 - Val Kelly (Guest) Am I going to have Right? 

02:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) exactly what are my costume changes. So let's first talk about you and how you got started in voiceover, because I know that you still are teaching, correct, yeah? 

02:23 - Val Kelly (Guest) So I'm doing a little bit of everything. Yeah, nothing wrong with that, I'll tell you are teaching, correct? 

02:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, so I'm doing a little bit of everything. Yeah, Nothing wrong with that. I'll tell you Nothing wrong with that, and especially if you're teaching, because that's just near and dear to my heart. 

02:33 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, absolutely. So I got started in voiceover in. About 1999 was when I first kind of stuck my foot in it a little bit and I didn't really know what I was doing of course, because back then there were only a handful of people that were really booking work. So basically, I just took a class and you know they were like oh, you have a lot of talent. Of course, like that's. You know, the typical thing when you take a class. They're like, oh, you should definitely do this with your life, you know. 

03:06 And you're like, oh great, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. Thanks for telling me what I wanted to hear. And then I took a class with these people for six weeks and then I recorded my first demo after six weeks, which was totally crazy. I had no idea what I was doing and it was a commercial demo, so I also really just had no concept of the technique or anything about what I was supposed to be doing. 

03:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And probably even the industry, right? I mean being educators. Right, we know Like six weeks is really nothing. It may not have been every day for six weeks. Right that you were training. You were probably training once a week yeah. 

03:40 - Val Kelly (Guest) No, it was like once a week yeah exactly Exactly. 

03:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So yeah, being educators, we know it takes a while to acquire skills. 

03:57 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah for sure. But I mean fast forward to basically 2011, when I just had my second daughter and I never stopped thinking about voiceover and I just said to my husband you know, I really want to get back into this, like I feel like I have a lot of talent to offer to this industry and I just really want to try and make something of it. You know, not give up teaching because I had been teaching French for such a long time and that's a big part of who I am as a person. 

04:19 But I wanted to add this creative side that I have. I wanted to offer that as well. So I started training with a studio in New York and then just kept training with them for a couple of years with multiple coaches and things like that, and then it was probably 2010. 12 or 13 that I went to Voice Over Atlanta for the first time and I met so many people I think that's actually the first time that I met you and I was just so impressed by that whole event and everything like that, and so that really opened a lot of doors for me in the Voice Over world. I started booking more stuff after I went to that event and then a few more years passed and I just thought there's something here, like in this mid-Atlantic region, that's missing, you know, and I want to give back to the community in a way that's going to be helpful for other voice actors. 

05:16 So I was flying to France actually on a trip, and I said to my best friend on the flight I was like what if I started my own company? And he's like, okay, he's like maybe you should get some best friend on the flight. I was like what if I started my own company? And he's like okay, he's like maybe you should get some more sleep on this flight. And I was like, no, but seriously. And he's like, oh, can we talk about this when we get to France? So the whole trip I was, you know, working and everything like that. It was for work, but I was also thinking, like, you know, I have a lot of ideas, like maybe I could really pull this together. So in 2014, I started Minute Landing VoiceOver and it was a real eye-opener, that first event with 28 people showed up for it. 

05:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) you know Was your initial idea with your company? Was it to do specifically just the event, or was it just to start a company of your own to do voiceover? And it evolved. 

06:06 - Val Kelly (Guest) I think my idea was to do this event but also to see where else I could take it you know what else could be offered through this company and then also to like expand it and kind of umbrella my own voiceover work underneath it, which ultimately it's separate from who I am as a voice actor. But that was something I kind of had to figure out a little bit later. But the first event was really great, even though it was tiny. It was absolutely tiny and I just I remember like calling you up and being like and what am I going to do? Like there's only 20 people signed up for my event, and you're like okay, val, okay, okay, let's send some email blasts. 

06:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I mean honestly, I think sometimes smaller is better. I have been at VO Atlanta since pretty much gosh every year, except for the first year, and there's something to be said. That's a big event and it got even bigger. But there's really something to be said for a small, intimate event and people can be overwhelmed by going to an event that is so large, especially those people starting out in the industry. So I think that your conference really serves a niche where it can make people feel more comfortable. It can be a first conference or it could be a 10th conference for them. There are just lots of people who feel comfortable in a smaller conference, a smaller environment. They feel that they get much more out of it. And so, yeah, with that first year being smaller, what did you learn? 

07:28 I guess my question would be is and having organized my own smaller events not huge events, but, and also having a husband who works in the event industry, I know how much work it takes, especially when you want it to be a great conference and you want people to get something out of it. It's a lot of work behind the scenes that a lot of people don't see. What they see is a ticket price. And they say, oh, all they do is multiply that ticket price by the amount of attendees. And they say, well, you're making a ton of money. I mean, I don't understand, why is it so expensive? And I'm thinking to myself, oh my gosh, there are so many, so many things. 

08:00 So let's talk about the evolution of this conference and things that you learned along the way. And had you planned an event before? I mean, did you love planning an event? Was it your first time? I mean, I liked planning my wedding and I thought, oh, I could do event planning. And then I'm like, well, you know what, it does take an awful lot of time. So what was going through your head when you're like, oh, it was fun to manage event, this is my first event. Was it your fifth event? 

08:26 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, that was my first, I mean, as you said, planning a wedding, which I did plan, my own wedding and that was a big. I loved it, it was great and I was very, very good at planning my wedding which I felt like was a good preparation for the first event, you know, I said to my husband I was like it's like planning a wedding every single year, except no one ever gets married. You know. And he was like yeah, okay. 

08:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Except you to the event. You get married to your event. Yeah, yeah. 

08:56 - Val Kelly (Guest) So yeah, I mean, I learned so much after that first year. I just learned so much about the business side of everything that I didn't know. You know, that was one thing. I wish that I had had more business training before I decided to start, because I had to learn everything. I mean, I had my friend help me figure out how to build a website. And that took. I mean just the countless hours of work that go into just trying to do everything yourself because you're starting out and you can't afford to hire anyone. 

09:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, right. 

09:30 - Val Kelly (Guest) And so those are the biggest lessons I've learned, I would say from the beginning until now is just every year I learn something new about the business and how to manage the money side of things. And you know, like you said, people look at the price and they go oh, she's making a billion dollars. 

09:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And it's like actually actually no. 

09:51 - Val Kelly (Guest) Actually no because I have to pay for the venue, I have to pay for all the guest speakers, I have to pay for the marketing and all the stuff that goes into it. 

09:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And. 

09:59 - Val Kelly (Guest) I do a lot of it myself, just simply for the fact that I am a small company. It's a boutique you know sized company and we kind of evolved into that whole boutique world where I had this idea Maybe this happened about five years ago where I said someone said to me, why don't you call it a boutique event? 

10:19 And I was like, oh, that's cute you know, and that's how the whole thing kind of started and I was like, oh, that's cute, you know, and that's how the whole thing kind of started. And then I took it and really had to explain to people what does that even mean, you know? And just being a French teacher, it's like, well, when you think of a boutique, what do you think of? You think of like a high-end, smaller place where you're going shopping and you're buying super high-quality items and everything is planned down to to like every tiny detail you know, and that's kind of what I wanted to transfer to my event without being snobby about it, obviously, like you know. 

10:54 So that's kind of how I delivered that message to people is just like think of it as a high-end boutique. You know you're coming in. 

11:01 I'm hiring only the top tier talents that are in the industry, people that are not appearing at every single event every year because I want to offer something different, and once we had that, we kind of ran with in the conference as far as the number of people and just the organizational part of it and just understanding how things work. And then after that, 2018 was really great too. We skipped to 2017. And then in 2020, covid hit. So then we had to go from being what was supposed to be in-person event, switching it to an online event at the last minute, and that was totally crazy. 

11:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It was so nuts, I'm sure that was a whole new learning curve for you, because online events are so much different than in-person events and, plus, I don't know if you had already like secured a venue. At that point I mean because typically the planning for events like this it runs all year. That point I mean because typically the planning for events like this, it runs all year. Right, I mean, you're planning for this event, you're planning the next year before the one is even done, basically. 

12:12 - Val Kelly (Guest) So when we had to take it online, luckily because it was COVID and out of your control type of scenario I was able to figure it out in enough time to say to the venue we're canceling. And then I took it to a virtual studio in Baltimore and I had someone do like the live streaming for me because. I had no idea what I was doing. 

12:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I can vouch for that because myself doing mostly I mean after 2015, I stopped doing in-person events at my home and I started doing everything online and that live streaming. Back in the day, it hadn't really evolved or developed, and so there were lots of live streaming technologies that were just coming out, and so I literally yeah, I had to learn it myself, and then I also hired somebody to help me live stream it, and then I also wanted to do a hybrid event. So it was crazy having people at my house plus live streaming it online, and so that alone and especially if you want it to be a quality event right, that live stream you have to have good cameras, you have to have the ability for people to be able to switch between people that are presenting to the audience and just to make it engaging. Otherwise, one of the biggest complaints about COVID right and online teaching I'm sure you taught online as well was the fact that it was hard to engage, and I know that even today, people like they're fatigued by Zoom. 

13:37 I still love it because I feel like Zoom filled a void for, let's say, just people that couldn't physically be together. I mean it was the next best thing. However, when you're trying to educate over an online platform, it really does become difficult or harder to engage people, and so running an online event you've got to be that much more paying attention to detail so that you can put on a great online event, and that is not a cheap thing to do either. To hire somebody for the cameras and that knows the technical backend to do the live streaming, to make the recordings right, you probably offer the recordings to be available for people who couldn't attend every session, and all that backend work on the website is crazy. It's crazy. 

14:22 So I have a lot of respect for the fact that you were able to turn that around. And so, what year is it this year for Mavo? How many years has it been that you've been running? 

14:31 - Val Kelly (Guest) So we've been in business since 2014. So, this is 10 years in business and it's actually our ninth conference this year, wow. 

14:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So there's a lot to be said for that as well, for the longevity of it. I mean the fact that you know you didn't give up after the first year and you weren't frustrated, right, because it's tough, I mean, and you learn as you go. So you must have a passion for this conference and a passion for putting together something great, educationally resourceful for the community, which I, as a teacher with a teacher heart, I can totally appreciate and respect. That because it's one of the reasons why I started the VO Boss podcast. It's one of the reasons why I did the VO Peeps networking groups, because I wanted to be able to provide a resource. And I believe that that's where your heart is in terms of wanting to provide a resource for the community. 

15:18 Because I know it's not about the money and I always try to strive to remind people that venue costs are not cheap. I mean my gosh especially when you're talking about wanting to host someplace. Decent rentals of ballrooms and just sites are so expensive it's along the lines of like tens of thousands of dollars, I would imagine to do that and especially when you're doing it over multiple days and then you're trying to provide reasonably priced rooms for people, and especially when you're keeping it on a smaller scale. It must be harder to find a venue that wants to work on a smaller scale with you. Is that correct? Or they get more expensive. 

16:00 - Val Kelly (Guest) I think it's not so much the venue that is not willing to work with you on a smaller scale, it's just the difficult balance, I think is, if you're saying, okay, we're only going to have 120 to 150 people, well, the venue isn't going to lower its price because of how many people you have, because they its price because of how many people you have, because they don't actually care how many people you have. 

16:24 What you end up paying for is the meals that you provide. So that's where the big, big expense comes in with any type of food that you offer, because it's based on how many people, and so it's really a difficult challenge of saying like, okay, if we're going to keep it this small, then we actually have to raise the price, so that I can cover all of my costs and at first people were like whoa, what the heck. 

16:50 And I was like guys, like you have to understand, like if you want me to hire good people to come in, like great people to come in and speak at this event, they won't do it for free and nor would I want them to, you know. So it's like that's the biggest. Biggest expense beyond the venue is the guest speakers. 

17:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know Sure sure, I know how hard it is to sell to this industry because I mean, I sell events myself, I sell coaching services and demos, and so you're selling to an industry where I think we all wish we had more money to spend. 

17:23 I mean, I think that's just human nature, I wish we had more money to spend. But especially when you're talking about a creative industry where it is their own business, they're all their own CEOs, they're all entrepreneurs and everybody's kind of just as they go learning the ropes of the business, of it all, it astounds me how much people are willing to spend for, let's say, performance classes, but yet business classes, which I think is imperative for us as voice actors and businesses to be able to make a profit right in order to support, support your habit, support your business, to pay the mortgage, to feed the family, that kind of thing. And so business skills are essential. And I know that your conference in the beginning it was very much geared towards, I would say, more animation and character, but you've evolved it now, especially because I'm involved, you've evolved it to really include many more genres. So let's talk a little bit about what you're offering this year and maybe last year, what you've done to kind of broaden the offerings of the conference. 

18:31 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, I mean, I think what we had to do was really gauge over the years what the level of interest was with. You know, everybody loves a good animation guest speaker because they're so interesting and everybody wants to work for well, maybe not everybody wants to work for Disney Channel but you know you know, and so that's kind of always where my creative mind went and like where do my interests lie? 

18:58 a little bit selfishly, but not really, because it's like I know a lot of people are also interested in that. So I would always try to go with a keynote that was somehow involved with animation, just so. 

19:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's a big seller. I know that, even A big seller. Yeah, it's a big seller. 

19:15 - Val Kelly (Guest) So then last year we had Serena Irwin who is a casting director and she casts freelance for a lot of different studios and has been on Spongebob and she's amazing like, and I really tried to find somebody that was kind of off the grid a little bit for last year because I wanted to find a less mainstream type of person kind of, I guess I would say. And so it was really successful to have somebody who is a casting director, because getting that viewpoint for people like in the animation world, what are you actually looking for? You? 

19:52 know, so for me that was very interesting, for a lot of people was very interesting. And then there have been certain years when we've offered a lot of you know know audio book stuff and it's not to say that we're not ever going to offer audio book guest speakers again. But I felt like for this year I wanted to kind of go in a different direction completely and I feel like having Tim Friedlander as the keynote is such an important thing because Tim is doing such amazing work for NAVA and the National. 

20:23 Association of Voice Actors and I just have so much respect for him as a person and as an actor that I just felt like it was like the natural. That's what my creative mind was telling me to go in that direction for this year. 

20:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's very relevant to the times in our industry. He's done a lot of work with NAava, along with Karin and the board, and they've done a lot of really wonderful work and so they're going to bring a lot of value, I believe, to your conference, absolutely. So let's talk about who else you have this year that might be different besides me, I mean, but we'll talk about me in a minute. I mean, we can talk about you. 

20:58 Well, I'm just super excited to kind of bring what I consider my specialties all of the genres, the long format narration, all the stuff that I think right now is really it's important to be an actor, no matter what genre we're talking, whether it's animation, whether it's promo. I mean it's important to be an actor, and even more so now, with all of the synthetic voice, the AI stuff that's out there. It's more important than ever that we hone our skills as actors, and so I want to bring that aspect to the conference to help attendees that are looking to really up their game in the narration, which is a large part of the non-broadcast market out there, and so I'm happy to be there doing. Do you call it a breakout session or a session? 

21:45 - Val Kelly (Guest) A mastery session. 

21:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) A mastery session. 

21:47 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, the three-hour sessions are mastery ones and I'm so excited about especially about your e-learning one, because that's a genre for me that I've always wanted to explore and I haven't enough, and you should. 

22:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you should because you're a teacher. 

22:03 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, it seems like a natural thing to kind of dive into that world a little bit. So I'm very excited, I'm very honored to have you this year and I think it's going to be really great. It's been a long time coming to actually be able to invite you and everything like that, and so I'm very very excited. 

22:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, so I'm going to be doing two mastery sessions one on acting for narration, and that's all types of narration corporate, medical, all of the geeky narrations explainer and then also the other aspect of the narration genres, which would be e-learning or training. So I'm very excited to have one of each of those to address all those topics. And so, guys, in order to do this, you need to sign up for MAVO, and so hopefully you'll sign up and then you'll look for my mastery classes, but you've got a lot of amazing offerings this year for MAVO, so you want to talk about who else you have for mastery sessions. 

23:02 - Val Kelly (Guest) I mean, we have so many great people on board. I'll just highlight a few of them because there's just so many. But Jessica Blue is coming and she's doing some sessions on dubbing live action dubbing and I'm so excited about that because I've never had the chance to meet her in person and we've never offered sessions on dubbing before at Mavo. 

23:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's great. 

23:22 - Val Kelly (Guest) So it's something brand new and very exciting for people. So she's amazing, so that will be really great. Ever Oliver is coming and offering a special teen program on Saturday only of the event, so that's for teens from ages 13 to 17. 

23:37 Great and he's doing like animation, video game and commercial voice acting with them, so it'll be a great opportunity for kids to experience working with Everett, which is amazing and so much fun. Also, luanne Regis is coming and she's a casting director and she used to be a talent agent, and so she's going to be offering some great sessions at the conference as well. Just giving her from a casting director's perspective of what are we really looking for and I think that's what everybody really wants to know- is like what do I? 

24:12 need to do to actually book this. And then, also really exciting, we have Daniel Ross, who is Donald Duck. He's an Emmy Award winning actor and it's so exciting to have him offering a mastery session on animation and making bold choices, which is so, so important in the character world of trying to book those roles when you have so much competition with everybody trying to also audition for them. 

24:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, yeah, I mean, there's so many people. 

24:43 - Val Kelly (Guest) It's a long list. 

24:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So how can bosses sign up for MAVO this year? Where do they go? What's the website? All that stuff. 

24:52 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, so wwwmidatlanticvocom, and they're going to click on MAVO events at the top tab and it will bring up all the events that we have going on. We have some like happy hours that go on virtually beforehand, so it 'll mostly be like every other week from now until the actual conference takes place and people can come to those happy hours online for free or they can like make a donation to Mabo if they want to. That's always an option like just to help support the company, but they can also certainly come for free and we're happy to have everybody there to just like network and chat. But yeah, everything is on the website the schedule and all about all the guest speakers and yeah, Fantastic, and you're going to be offering a special discount just for bosses. 

25:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) For boss listeners out there, talk a little bit about that and how they can achieve that discount. 

25:49 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah. So for the VO boss listeners, we're going to offer a $75 discount and you can just go to the website and click on Get Tickets and when you go to checkout you're going to just enter the code VOBOSS and it will take that $75 off for you on full weekend tickets. 

26:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Awesome, that is so helpful, and guys don't forget to sign up for my mastery sessions and I'm also doing is it an hour long session too, which is for everybody at the conference. Oh yeah, there's a general session too, so that would be really great as well. Great Well, val, it has been such a pleasure chatting with you about Mayvo. I'm so excited and of course I'll just continue to plan my wardrobe. 

26:33 - Val Kelly (Guest) Same same but. 

26:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm so excited because you do have a wonderful lineup and I'm excited, of course, to see all of my friends and colleagues again. Wonderful lineup, and I'm excited, of course, to see all of my friends and colleagues again and I'm excited to work with the amazing talent that I know is going to be there in this boutique, wonderful, intimate setting for Mavo. So thanks again for joining me and I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom Val. Thanks again, bosses. You guys have an amazing week and I'll see you next week. All right, take care, bye-bye. 

27:12 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vo boss comm and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPD TL.