In this episode, Anne Ganguzza sits down with Sean Savage, a seasoned musician and audio producer with a wealth of experience in the creative industry. The BOSSES share how they each authentically evolved their careers in podcasting. They open up about the pivotal moments that defined their path and how they found inspiration for their creative processes. In a world where our digital presence often shapes our identity, Anne and Sean are excited to join forces to launch an inspiring new podcast series called The Myth of You. This podcast is an incredible opportunity to dive deep into a topic I’m truly passionate about—exploring the stories we tell ourselves and the myths that shape our reality. Together, they will challenge, inspire, and guide you as you uncover the narratives that influence your life.

In this episode, Anne Ganguzza is joined by Danielle Famble to explore the impact of money mindset on entrepreneurial success. Delve into the ways societal norms and gender roles shape our financial perspectives, and discover the power of open conversations about money. Anne and Danielle emphasize the link between mindset and financial prosperity, especially for voice actors, and share strategies for shifting from a scarcity to an abundance mindset. By addressing subconscious beliefs about money, entrepreneurs can unlock creative opportunities, fuel innovation, and ensure enduring business success. This episode invites listeners to challenge traditional beliefs, embrace a more inclusive approach to money management, and cultivate a sustainable future through proactive and creative financial strategies. Join the conversation to empower your entrepreneurial journey and transform your financial mindset.

00:00 - Advertisement (Ad) I've just finished listening to Creative Brilliance with Improv, Anne and Lau, and all I can say is yes, ladies, improv is absolutely one of my favorite activities, and the life of the pre-life is real. Remembering that the run-in line or your lead-in line does not only exist at the beginning of your read, but throughout, it's a critical activity. The running conversation that has to happen in your head truly makes a difference. So, ladies, thank you so much. I greatly appreciate it. 

00:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey boss listeners, are you ready to turn your voice over career goals into achievements? With my personalized coaching and demo production, I'm here to help you reach new milestones. You know you're already part of a boss community that strives for the very best. Let's elevate that. Your success is my next project. 

01:15 - Advertisement (Ad) Find out more at  anne ganguzza dot com. It's time to take your business to the next level. Find out more at Anne Ganguzza. 

01:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Money Talks series. I'm your host, anne Ganguza, and I am thrilled to be back again with one of my favorite girls to talk about money Danielle Famble. Hey Danielle, hey Anne, good to be back, danielle. I have a secret to tell you. 

01:52 What I love money, and I don't think that's a secret oh gosh, is it just me or is it that some people don't like to discuss their relationship with money, and I think that's a very important thing, obviously for us running businesses is our relationship with money. 

02:06 I mean money matters, and I think we have to really talk about what our relationship with money is like. Because, I'll tell you, when I was growing up as a female, it wasn't a thing to make money. Like my parents, my dad went out and it was the breadwinner and it was always kind of like ingrained in my brain that I was supposed to do other things, and not necessarily it wasn't. My critical role was to make money. 

02:31 But, in my business, I certainly don't have another purpose than to be able to make money to help survive. 

02:39 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, it's almost like the purpose of a business is to make a profit and that profit is making money, money. Yeah, I totally agree. I think it's a sociological thing. I think it's also we're sort of taught that talking about money is too risque and it's not polite yeah don't be greedy. We're running businesses and businesses need to make money, so we should talk about it Absolutely. 

03:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I'll tell you what I'm not really shy at least on this podcast about talking, and that's why I'm so happy that you're here to talk about money, and this whole money talk series is just like makes me a happy, happy girl. I just I like talking about it because I think it's something that, as business entrepreneurs, we don't discuss enough of right we don't discuss, and especially for myself and my values and things that were taught to me when I was growing up were completely different than what I need to implement in order to have and run a successful business. Again, one very primary one was that women were not breadwinners. They were meant to have families and do other things, and so I really was kind of at a standstill when I was growing up because I was seeing things that were demonstrated to me that I didn't necessarily think should be true. 

03:52 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) And I think there's also this like belief about money that maybe that it's hard to make money or you have to struggle to get it and I really believe that money can come easily to you if you learn about it and understand it and know how it works. But yeah, I mean for me too. I mean I grew up with parents who are entrepreneurs and seeing my mom and dad work together and my grandparents even working together to make money. It wasn't necessarily that imbalance in a way of the man goes out and is the breadwinner, and that actually was totally happening in my home. But in terms of business, I was seeing, in my life anyway, sort of more of an equal partnership when it came to money, but we never really talked about it. 

04:41 It wasn't something that we discussed. I just happened to pick up on what I saw and then I made assumptions based on what I saw that may or may not have been true. 

04:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you said that because you're right. Money was like one of those things. My grandmother I'm from that age where children should be seen and not heard. 

05:00 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) But, money. 

05:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You don't talk about money. It's not polite, right? It's just not. You don't discuss money, and you're right. I saw things, I witnessed things and so I made my own assumptions. I'm so glad that you mentioned that because you're right. Some of these assumptions maybe were incorrect on my part and I grew up thinking a certain way and it affected how I thought about money, right, and how I thought about well, I guess I need to go out and get a job. It didn't occur to me that I could make my own money and be my own boss, and I think, had I maybe had a different relationship with money or maybe learned about money at an earlier age? Gosh, I will be the first person up on my platform my soapbox saying that if you're in grade school, you should be taught about money Like from a young age, you should be taught about money, financial, financial responsibility, relationships with money, because I think you need to have a healthy relationship with money. 

05:55 I don't think it should consume you. However, I think you should have a healthy relationship with money. That means that you're not afraid of it, you're not afraid to talk about it, you're not afraid to learn about it, and I think one of the best things you can do is educate yourself about anything really, and money is no different. Educate yourself about money, because it truly is something that we do need to survive. Oh for sure? 

06:16 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, absolutely. I think you touched on it a little bit. But there is an inherent fear and money can cause a fear response a little bit, especially if you don't have it or you need more of it to get to where you're trying to go in life or in business. I'll tell you a personal story. For me, my education, learning about money and how I needed to interact with money, really came from a trauma response, because I got sick and I needed to take some time away from work, and I was working as a waitress. If you don't go to work, you don't get paid, and if you don't get paid, then you're not going to be able to, like, pay your bills. 

06:56 So for me, I was working a job that, like, required my daily attendance, and if I was not able to do that for whatever reason for me that was a health reason then it affected my money and I didn't have the savings in place to be, able to catch me if I needed to take some time away from my income generating source my job, I thought, and I got a random illness that just kind of took me out, and even for a short period of time actually, and I realized that I did not have the infrastructure in place to make sure that I would be okay even if I couldn't go to my job. 

07:47 Sure, yeah, educate myself about money and how money worked and how I can be a participating factor and how I can have, like, my own security when it came to money. And for me, having money became a security blanket and that drove me into almost a fear-based or trauma-based response that if I didn't have money I was not secure. And that belief system really got me in a negative place around money and work where I could not stop working because I needed that security. 

08:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right or money will get you happy. 

08:12 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Right, and that didn't happen either. 

08:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So there's that fine line between we need money, we need to have that healthy relationship with money. However, money may or may not make the majority of us happy. However, it is needed for our businesses to survive, right, and it's needed for personally, for us to be able to pay the bills and to survive, and so different people have different relationships with money, and also financial arguments are probably one of the top sources of divorce, right. 

08:44 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah. 

08:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) For many people, and so it's such a delicate balance. I mean, how can we have a healthy relationship with our money, danielle, how do you secure your healthy relationship with money? 

08:56 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I think. First, it requires you to take inventory of where you currently are right. So if you think about and that can be a scary thing that can be a very scary thing because you're having to really assess your own beliefs and belief systems and get down to. 

09:15 I had to. I dealt with this in therapy because it took more than just me to get that out. But really, I mean, when you think about money like for you, anne, when you think about money and like making money or having money, do you feel like cringe and does it make you feel small, or are you like oh money, I'm so excited. 

09:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I feel like I already know that's kind of my go-to. That's your thing, oh money. 

09:43 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) And really having. If money and the idea about money makes you feel small or repel, then imagine that energy is not going to be coming to you or stressed, or stressed, it's not coming to you. 

09:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Which is a lot. Yeah, you're right. And so there becomes that abundant mindset, right, I mean? And there are some people who just don't subscribe to that theory of abundance, but I very much am like well, I'd rather be more in a positive abundant mindset than a negative mindset, because just my personality is one where I don't like to be sad or unhappy or stressed and money can absolutely be a source of stress and especially gosh knows in our businesses that we are our own entrepreneurs. 

10:22 That is probably the number one reason that most people don't make it in the voiceover industry, right, is they're not making the money they need to survive, of course, for their businesses to survive or them to survive personally, and that becomes then a great source of stress. So how do we deal with it in a way that doesn't bring us so much stress, right, that it is detrimental to our business? 

10:45 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) There's so much more to your business than just money, although in this series we've obviously talked so much about money and financial principles and everything else. But there's so many other things to your business and if there is a way that you can have fun in your business and bring that levity and light and joy to your business, the money I have found does come. I used to be a musical theater actor before I became behind the mic and I found that when I was happy and joyful for my friends who were booking work, I actually started booking more work. There was almost like this reciprocity of joy and light and acceptance and abundance to oh there's enough and I see there's enough. 

11:33 I celebrate my friend for booking work. That means that there is a job that can come to me as well. So I think it feels, and it seems a little bit woo woo and is there an actionable thing that you can do with it? Maybe just celebrating and being joyful for the work that's coming for other people who are booking work, if they're sharing it, like on social media, for example, but also being grateful for every single opportunity. Every audition is an opportunity to work. It may not be paid work, because maybe you're not getting paid for that audition, but it's an opportunity to work and to do something that you hopefully love to do, and do it joyfully. 

12:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, I talk a lot about being joyful and following our paths and really because I mean I'd rather be joyful than not joyful when I have to work, and so if you take that mindset right and apply that to money, right, Be joyful about money. 

12:25 Be, joyful about the fact that it can come to you, right, and that, when it comes to you, it affords you the opportunity, maybe not to buy the fanciest new car or the fanciest new mic, but it affords you the opportunity to continue in this creative process that brings you joy on a day-to-day basis, right, the more hours of joy that I can have in a day, the better. 

12:48 Right. 

12:49 And if I can do that while making money and I can allow the money and have that mindset of abundance, that, yes, I'm happy for anyone that can survive in this industry, and especially now with all this craziness, with people being fearful of AI taking their jobs away and the race to the bottom. 

13:06 Right, when you worry and stress out about the race to the bottom and people and things taking your job away, you are taking all that energy and putting it into a place that is not going to help you get more jobs. And so, in reality, if you focus your energy on being the best that you can be and finding the joy in the work, the jobs will follow and I believe that the money will follow. Now, how much money these days, has the market changed? I mean, I think, again, education plays a big role in this and education in regards to the market right and in education in regards to your business sensibilities and your relationship with money. Well, if the market is not necessarily there like it used to be, then what can you do in regards to your financial situation to either rectify that, change that evolve, that, do something different, while still maintaining that joyful, abundant mindset? 

14:02 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Oh yeah, I also like knowing all the different resources that are out there to help us learn, knowing that there's the GBAA rate guide that can help inform how you quote jobs, or what is an industry standard rate, what is a guide that I can use to help me or even other voice actors and just saying, hey, listen, I'm thinking about this particular rate, how does that line up? Or what do you think? Having coaches or mentors line and not being, as you're calling it, that race to the bottom, and then that can be very joyous, because it's a collaborative effort that we're all making sure that the money is staying within livable standards of living rates so that we can all win. That's really helpful and that helps maintain for me, it helps maintain the joy. Also, I just feel like you have to think about where your mentality about money is coming in, because if you are not addressing that, it will come out when you negotiate your own rates for example Sure when you least expect it, Exactly In your daily actions and you don't realize yeah. 

15:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You're right. I love that you're talking about negotiation because you're right, that attitude, those thoughts that you have about money will absolutely come out in negotiations, with money and even I would say, in your auditioning and your confidence in your product. 

15:32 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah. 

15:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, I mean it can. Absolutely. Well, I am not worth you know what someone else might be worth, because I'm just starting out, I'm new, and again that relationship directly parallels, I think, with your relationship with money, because as voice actors we are all worth, we are all investing money in this business and we are all worth a particular amount and we should never consider that worth being lower or low, just in general, Kind of like in money. Is money bad? No, Money should be thought of as a means to good and positivity. 

16:08 It's a resource, a tool to help us achieve our dreams and our joys and to do something that can propel us further right. Money will help me to take my career further, take my business further right. I can make more investments. I can find another genre that brings me even more joy, that kind of thing. So, really, that relationship I think that you have with money go back to if you're stressed out, if you're nervous, if you're all about like, oh gosh, I'm not going to make it because AI is going to take over or it's a race to the bottom these days. And in reality, I think that if you take that energy and focus it on, how can I resonate abundance, right, how can I resonate abundance in my business? And that, of course, I think again, when you talk about business, I think you can't not talk about money. 

17:04 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) It's impossible. 

17:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think it's impossible, because you can't run a business without money and you can't sustain a business without money and you can't grow your business without money. Yeah. 

17:12 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Because, again, I've said this several times the purpose of a business is to create a profit and you have to be making more than you spend to run the business. You, in order to do that, you have to be making more money and growing your business as time goes on. And if you have a fear or your belief system about money is limiting your ability to grow your business and scale your business, then it's going to be a very uncomfortable time running your business. And if you want to have a business for years and years and years, imagine living your life that way for years and years and years it's just not fun. Yeah, yeah. 

17:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, I like to think of it in terms of money, mindset and mindset in general. Right, you have a choice. You have a choice in how you think and how you think about things, and for me, I'd much rather think about things from a positive perspective, just because I don't like to be unhappy and I don't choose to be unhappy, and so I try to think of everything in the more positive light, even if let's say, oh, it's been slow this month, right, and maybe it's been slow for a couple of months, right. So how do I take that worry, that potential financial worry? It's like, oh gosh, how am I going to make the payments this month? How am I going to pay my employees this month, and really kind of take the time that you would spend worrying about that in terms of, all right, sitting down, and these would be positive aspects of how all right. So now maybe we are slow this month, so what can we do to rectify that? 

18:40 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) What can we do? 

18:41 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) How can I how? 

18:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) can I do this, how can I rectify that, so that I won't have this worry, this cloud hanging over my head? What can I do? Can I market more? Maybe once in a while you might have to accept a job that is maybe below what you initially quoted, right, and maybe that's something that you will concede to and not think negatively about that right Totally, in terms of thinking of it as a financial stepping stone, right, and having that relationship where you're not angry that you're making less right For this one time. Right. 

19:15 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) But there's joy in making something at all. There's joy in making money. 

19:19 What I love about what you just said is think about how much more creative freedom you've just given yourself by turning that fear, that worry on its head of how can I pay the bills this month, into what do I need to do, how can I make some additional money or income or do something different. Then you have the option to say, okay, wow, as a creative, as a person who is a creative, an actor, a person who makes things from other people's words, and I turn that through my body, into this thing that I've created and added value to the businesses and the organizations and the companies and the brands that I voice for. Sure, absolutely. When you think about it like that, oh, my goodness, imagine like the joy and the levity that comes from that. Yeah, because then you can become more creative. Okay, yeah, maybe I will negotiate this particular job and I don't get the amount that I wanted to. 

20:14 But look, I made some money. Or look, I'm auditioning different style or genre or work with someone, like there's so many possibilities there. When you open up your mindset to how can I, what can I do, what are the opportunities out there? Because I look at all the auditions that are out there let's say, on a pay-to-play site, if you can see like all the auditions are out there. They're looking for human beings. They're looking for people to do that work, and so, if you look at these as opportunities, the opportunities are all around you. You've opened your mind to it. 

20:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I think if you allow and we talk about like, allow the money to flow like a river you know, if you allow that money, if you think abundance, if you think joy, if you think about allowing the possibility of money rather than, oh God, I I can't do this, or I can't charge, or that client is trying to jip me out of. You know that kind of negativity where, oh, they're trying to jip me out of what I'm worth. So it's good to know what you're worth, but it's also good to know that when a company states they have a budget and they can't meet the budget that you initially want, that you turn that on its head and you say, okay, well, it's an opportunity for me to make, maybe not what I originally intended, but also it's an opportunity that I can then take and turn into other opportunities. 

21:37 So, rather than being angry and complaining and going to social media about it or that kind of thing, from an educational perspective, right, really trying to take a different look at it in terms of okay, that wasn't what I initially would have wanted, but you know what, this opportunity to work with this company, maybe I'll get another opportunity and it will turn into something that is more positive than negative. 

21:58 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Or saying no to that opportunity also gives you the opportunity to work with somebody else, because your time is a limited resource and you can't get more of it. So if you're spending your time with something that is not the right fit for you, you're not making the type of money that you're wanting to make, or you just you're mad because you said yes to this thing because you really needed the money. 

22:19 you may not be able to take on something else that is a better fit, so understanding the cost benefit of saying yes or saying no to something might be what brings more into your business, more money to you. It's all flowing to you, you know, like a river. It's called currency for a reason, because it's got to move. 

22:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I love that, love that analogy. It's called currency for a reason. Yeah, absolutely. Just trying to take things that maybe are not productive for either your workflow or your mental state regarding money and finances, especially when it comes to this business. And this is not easy, guys, we know this. I mean I've been in this business, gosh, close to 18 years and, danielle, you've been in the business for enough years to know it's a marathon, not a sprint. Yeah, business for enough years to know it's a marathon not a sprint and, honestly, the attitude and the positivity with which you approach your business and money opportunities has a direct correlation with your success. 

23:18 I really believe that? Yeah, I do too. It's just one of those things. So, really, I think, sit back and look at your relationship with money and your stress levels around money and maybe just sit down and write down. We can turn this into a goal setting podcast as well, because I do believe that setting financial goals and we have a podcast on that as well can really help to benefit how you can see your relationship with money and help you identify where you might need to work on things right. 

23:48 So if you're looking at your financials. You're taking a hard look at what your financials are coming in and going out and then assessing, okay, where are the opportunities? And, instead of being angry or depressed or frustrated or thinking you're not enough, figuring out what did work and then figuring out what other things do you think could work. And I'll tell you, there's nothing wrong with in your business while you're growing it, to get other sources of income from other careers. I mean you don't have to be completely all in voiceover. You can do computer consulting or technology consulting or web design or any other thing. I mean work at a restaurant. There's nothing wrong with that in terms of financial opportunities and looking that as a positive to continue on a good relationship with money that can allow you to expand your business. 

24:38 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, absolutely. 

24:39 And another thing I can tell you for me, when I was working on my belief systems around money and how I could, you know, improve that was finding a sense of gratitude for the money that I had. 

24:51 One of the things just on a personal level, one of the things when I was really struggling with this is when I would open up my bank account and look at the amount of money, I immediately felt shame and scared and sad and just a lot of these negative feelings. Looking at the money that I had, it is simply just a fact of what is there right now, but it also is proof that I have the ability to make money. So one of the things that I did and it could be something that the listeners do as well is develop a practice of just simply greeting your money and saying hello to your money every day. I love that. So what I would do is I would open up my account, look at the money, feel whatever feeling I was feeling and then just say, hey, money, good morning you know there will be more or less or what have you, but like hey, and just looking at it, for what? 

25:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) it was let's get more friends. 

25:43 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Let's go make friends. Let's go make friends. 

25:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Let's go make friends, let's go bring on some more people here. 

25:46 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yes, exactly, and really just looking at the account and letting whatever feelings come. But those feelings are not real, they are simply feelings. Those feelings can actually help or hurt you in trying to bring more friends to the money that you already have. 

26:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, I love that. So, yeah, you're right, looking and saying hello and addressing your money and facing it right on a day-to-day basis. It's kind of like, gosh, my weight loss journey, right. I didn't want to look at the scale, I didn't want to look at the numbers, I didn't want to. I was scared and every time I would look at the numbers it would bring this feeling of shame and horror and sadness and so the more you do it, the easier it gets right, so that you can try to take that mindset and turn it into one of gratefulness, one of positivity. And the same thing with your money. 

26:35 Look at your money scale. I'm going to say, on a day-to-day basis, greet it and then say what can I do? And for this, what can I do to maybe gain more money, weight right and be grateful for what you have on the scale at that time and really assess what is it that you can do to change this in a more positive way? I mean, gosh, what a great conversation. I mean money is a mindset. It really is. And you're right, it really is the way that you feel about it. It's just that they're just feelings, right. 

27:06 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I've been told and I heard this saying feelings are not facts. Right your feelings while they are completely like real to you, it may not be the end result. It's just the feeling that comes up and you can, just like you train your body, just like you train your mind, you can train your feelings and really, it just takes. 

27:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You can choose joy. These are choices that can be made and you can choose joy. You can choose joy at any given moment of the day. 

27:28 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) These are choices that can be made, and then, when you choose joy, imagine how much more abundance will be coming your way. 

27:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right. Choose joy. Choose money. Choose to look at your money and then choose to turn that into gratefulness and positivity, and that will allow the currency to flow. 

27:45 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) the river to flow. 

27:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love it. Oh my gosh, what a great episode. Danielle, thank you so much as always for sharing your gems with us in this series. I really, really am loving it and I can't wait till our next one. Bosses, I'm going to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipdtl. That allows our currency to flow and our voices to flow over the line. You can find out more at ipdtlcom. Guys, thanks so much for joining us and we'll see you next week. Bye, bye, everyone. 

28:15 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

00:01 - Rick MacIvor (Ad) Hi, this is Rick MacIver with the VO Video Village YouTube channel. You know, when I started doing voiceover, I listened to the VO Boss podcast religiously. It was my go-to source of information about the industry and I still listen to it to this day. Every week there's an amazing new guest and Anne is able to really get some great information. I just love it. So thank you so much, Anne, looking forward to next week's episode. 

00:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey guys, it's that season again. Are you feeling that tickle in your throat? Don't let a cold or flu slow you down. Combat your symptoms early with Vocal Immunity Blast, a simple and natural remedy designed to get you back to 100% fast. With certified therapeutic-grade oils like lemon to support respiratory function, oregano for immune-boosting power and a protective blend that shields against environmental threats, your vocal health is in good hands. Take charge of your health with Vocal Immunity Blast. Visit annganguzacom to shop. 

01:09 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguza. 

01:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey, everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, nn Ganguza, and I'm here with the one and only Lala Pitas. 

01:40 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Hey, annie, back again. Happy 2025, and yet another year. Here we are. 

01:46 How, many years, how many? 

01:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) years Lau. It's been years. 

01:49 - Lau Lapides (Guest) A decade, I don't know 20?. I feel like you know, we came out of the womb and we knew each other. 

01:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't know. 

01:56 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It feels like forever, but it is over two years now. 

01:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think it's two and a half, at least, almost Two, and a half At least, almost, if not more, if not three Lau. 

02:03 I'm telling you, I am manifesting that 2025 is going to be my best year ever, and I say that because we've come off of a tough year, not just a tough year necessarily for your business, but just a tough year, I think, in general for everyone, mentally, physically. I mean. It's just been a tough, tough, tough year of 2024. So I am ready for 2025, despite whatever may happen in the world, I feel like with this political climate, I want this to be the best year ever for my business, and so I had a couple of podcast episodes and we do this all the time right End of year assessment how are we going to make this year the best? But I really want to stretch Lau and talk about how we can go beyond the typical. Well, let's write our goals down right and let's do this for the year. 

02:52 Let's talk about how we can really, I think, manifest success and stretch ourselves out to be the absolute best that we can be, and to be mindfully and skillfully healthy for 2025. 

03:04 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Stretching. That's my thing. I love stretching, and when I say stretching I mean really kind of motivating our folks to just move in directions that are uncomfortable, that you may not have experienced before. Those are the best, where you have no idea what the outcome is. Because the truth is, you know, in our profession we get seasoned. After a while we kind of know what to expect. We know kind of the behaviors of clients. We get to know that right. But we always want to refresh, we want to feng shui the spirit. How do we do it? Put ourselves in an environment that we're not used to. That's going to help us grow, and as a talent, as a person, as a business entrepreneur, what could that mean? Well, some examples I like to give. Why not take a fencing class? Why not get into a class where you're doing mime and you're not talking at all? I love that? 

03:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) How do? 

03:58 - Lau Lapides (Guest) you communicate through your body, through your mind, through your spirit, without the aid of the copy of the script. This is all going to be tools in the toolkit that you're going to pull when you get back in your booth and say, wow, how did I feel when I was locked into my body, how do I? 

04:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) unlock. You know what. I think I love that, but I think, before we figure out how we're going to stretch right, let's sage the space, so to speak right. Let's sage the space, so to speak. Right. Let's sage the space, let's clear the space right. And what are some things we can do to kind of clear away all the? I like to say clear away what was last year and now? How are we going to start fresh? How are we going to start new? How are we going to sage our space, and I mean physically? You could I love sage, I'm a big sage burner. I like to sage it to create new energy. But that saging right could be. Maybe you decide to take up a little bit of meditation, a little bit of breathing exercises. I know that, stretching yourself mindfully, but also physically as well. I started taking Pilates last year and I'll tell you what I feel great, and I do it early in the morning. 

05:08 - Intro (Announcement) So, as a matter of fact, this morning I was at 6.30 am class. 

05:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow, Discipline. I love that so I can start my day right. I do a 6.30 and a 7.30 back to back and I absolutely love the way it makes me feel in the mornings. There's a lot of just default. There's breathing in there, right, and we talk as voice actors how important breathing is. And breathing is amazing. I mean, first of all, we breathe every day, but like focused, right, conscious, like breathing exercises which by default happened in my Pilates class, really helped me to expel the negative energy and take in the new energy and really helped me to feel more balanced, more focused, brings down my blood pressure and you know, what's so funny is I've learned to breathe so well that literally it becomes this challenge. Well, you know that I still go see my doctor, my oncologist, all the time and they're always taking my blood pressure right, so for a while there my blood pressure was high and they prescribed medicine for me, right. 

05:56 And so ever since I was you know, I got myself a little bit healthier. Thankfully, my blood pressure is actually a little bit on the lower side, but I also take my blood pressure every single day right Just to make sure I'm on top. I have learned how to breathe so that I can lower my blood pressure. Like it's insane. And in my little Peloton classes too, you can actually see your heart rate and so if you do active breathing right, you can see how it brings down your heart rate. You can see how it brings down your heart rate. So I think staging the space, so to speak, or physically do it, but also stage the space. Take some time in the morning for meditation and breathing to get you in the right head space and physical space for a great day ahead and a great year ahead. Oh, I love all of that. 

06:38 - Lau Lapides (Guest) And you know we've got to get out of that fight or flight, breathing yeah, which, the truth is, all of us do it. I mean because we're running around, we're running all over the map and we'll go into the what we call the upper thoracic breath, the clavicular breath. That's our throat, our chest, whatever Can we live, of course? Can we have a great life, definitely. Is it effective for speaking? Nope, it isn't. And that's our gift, that's our craft, that's our job is to speak for a living. 

07:06 So we want to move that down into the diaphragm and everything you're doing, annie, is just a gift to be able to do that. And it harkens back to me when I was a young kid in college studying theater, that some of my professors would use this, saying They'd say leave your trash at the door when you walk in the studio. Leave it there, don't bring it in with you. That's your emotional stuff that you're bringing in. I'll give you new stuff to deal with and don't worry, don't worry, when you leave, it'll be there for you to pick up and take with you. I'll give you new stuff, I'll give you new stuff. 

07:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Don't worry, I'll give you new stuff to deal with right Unless you're using it right for the scene ahead right. I mean, take it through the door if you need it. But a lot of times that baggage right it's not always. I'm going to say 99% of the time I'm going to say maybe that's not necessary for voice acting, unless you're playing a role that calls for that. 

07:57 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Right, right. I think that if you're going to use it as a reservoir of emotion, to call upon, it has to be compartmentalized, it has to be disciplined and dealt with. It can't just be dumping, it can't be unloading your day or unloading your life in the space because it's number one, it's not professional or appropriate, but, number two, it doesn't feel good, it doesn't make you a cleansed breath performer, which is where we want to go. We want to go to a full sort of centered, grounded place of where the breath is coming from. So I love that. I love that. No one loves sage more than me. I actually named my son Sage, oh yeah, well, there you go I adore sage. 

08:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think it's really important to just sage out your space Totally, totally cleansing. 

08:44 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Are we ready for some how-tos yet, annie? Yeah, sure, let's go, let's do it. I'm going to lay one on the friends. That is really unexpected, but from an actor's point of view it's very elevated technique. And look into it and go online and look it up. It's called Rasa Boxes, something you're never going to hear in voiceover. It's an elevated boxes on the floor made of tape, literal boxes. The actor steps into the box and becomes an emotion in that box and it's very specific and it's very much a deep dive and intense and when they step out of the box they immediately lose that tone, immediately 100% cleanse themselves of that emotion. Think about that. The crossover to me is when you're doing like audiobook or you're doing character work, you're playing 10 different characters. You don't want any bleed of sound, right, absolutely Well, we don't want any bleed of spirit. Sure, we want to know that if you're enraged, you're the witch that's enraged, that you step into the box where you're the peaceful fairy and there's no bleed from one box to another. 

09:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But can you evolve that emotion? Can you be the fairy that is maybe angry to begin with and then becomes cleansed of that anger? Somehow Can you have one foot in one box and one foot in another and play that way. You know why. 

10:15 - Lau Lapides (Guest) I love you so much Because you're brilliant and you're always 10 steps ahead. You just single-handedly skipped over two years of MFA graduate work because skip a year or two and you're going to start melding and shaping and mixing the boxes together. But the point is it's intentional. Yes, yes, it mixing the boxes together. But the point is it's intentional, it's a choice. It doesn't just happen because I can't control myself and my output. I love that. 

10:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that because when I'm teaching acting for narration one of my classes that I've taught in multiple places I talk about how your emotion can evolve from the start of the sentence into the end of the sentence, and that requires control and it requires, it does require focus, a lot of focus, in order to intentionally go from one emotion to another, to add that interest and that texture and that storyline. 

11:05 - Lau Lapides (Guest) That's great, yes, and this is a physical, if you will, a physical incarnation of that not just internal but it's actually physical, so you can like. 

11:14 We used to do as little kids play. What do we call it? Hopscotch? We used to go from box to box. You're literally going box to box and we're doing that in our life too. We're going from script to script, character to character, intention to intention, but it defines it. I think that's where the stretch comes. How do I stretch the ability of going 100% deep dive immediately and then pulling out of that immediately? It reminds me of a professional ball player. So if you're like a baseball player, someone who's sitting on the bench but they are not warming up, they are 100% ready to jump in the game and go. Is there a script Lau or is it just it's improv? Well, I mean, the experiment of it is all improv, and then you can install that into your scripts so that you know exactly what the boxes are. So there's no sitting on the bench kind of saying, oh, I'm going to warm myself up into it, I'm going to figure it out as I go. It's either you're 100% committed to it or you're 100% out of it. I love it. 

12:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think right now I look at, I'm looking at boxes right now. I think we can play this not just physically, but I love the physical aspect of it. 

12:21 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It's a cool thing. We can play it On Zoom. 

12:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We can do it we can play it on Zoom too, because maybe Anne is the angry box right, and maybe Lau is the love box Right, if you think about it, and then we could just like okay, improv right, there we go. And so I'm not angry right now. But see, that would be tough for me, right? I've got to like work. I'm gonna have to work on that, because I don't like to be angry in my real life. 

12:40 - Lau Lapides (Guest) But here's the thing you learn as an actor. You're not just as a voiceover talent, you're not just being that or becoming that. You're playing an action based on a situation, yeah Right. So it's your job to figure out what's the situation. 

12:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh yeah, as we say, who are you talking to, right? What's going on? That is so important again, because we talk about, like, how are we evolving as successful businesses with digital disruption and AI and increasing like size of the industry, and how do we compete while we become the actor right that can evolve and meld with whatever we're being asked to do, and a lot of times, I'll ask people to create that scene in which the words on the page will make sense and will allow you to connect with those words in a meaningful way. And so that's where a lot of times, my students will be like but wait, they're like oh, now I'm asking them to think and it's like but this is hard and I'm like it is Like you know, if it were easy we'd all be voice actors making millions of dollars. 

13:40 But even then that would be kind of cool. 

13:42 - Lau Lapides (Guest) But yes, it's also the commitment in the relationship. So I think that's what makes it hard is like you don't realize you're making a commitment to a relationship immediately, without the intellect or analysis that we want to take to be safe. Right, kids are great at that. If kids played Rasa Boxes as a game, they'd jump right in and be the evil queen. They'd jump right in and be the fairy princess, because they understand it from an emotional EQ, emotional quotient way. 

14:12 Yeah yeah, yeah. And so we're so intellectual these days, which is fabulous. We want to be able to analyze our script, of course, but we miss the part where we're connecting our mind to our feet, to our center, to our heart, to the ground. Right, it's actually quite Native American in a lot of ways. When you look at it, it's very soulful, it's very spiritual, it's very grounded to not only the spirits above us, the gods above us, but also the nature, the ground, the trees, the roots. 

14:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Love it. I love it. I think we should have like a Zoom class on that. I think we should. 

14:47 - Lau Lapides (Guest) We should have a Zoom class maybe during our audition demolition. That could be fun. That could be a ton of fun. 

14:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It is fun, it's hard in a good way, yeah. 

14:56 - Lau Lapides (Guest) And so what's the name of that again for our bosses out there that want to jot that down yeah, the name of the technique is called RASA R-A-S-A boxes, rasa boxes you should really look it up, and it's a sort of international kind of methodology that's used by actors of all cultural backgrounds to reach their characters deeply and quickly. 

15:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, yeah, Deeply and quickly. Now that's the thing, because I've got a lot of students who they're like but this takes so much time and I said honestly, like, if you think about it, like how much time did that really take? Ten minutes, Did I just work with you for ten minutes on it? I mean, it's just one of those things where I asked you, okay, what's that moment before, right? And so, what is that scene? Why are you even saying these words? What's the purpose? All right, so I love that. So we've got we're saging, right, we're saging, we're cleansing and we're meditating, we're breathing, and now we've got something that's helping us to stretch outside of our boxes, or in the boxes, so to speak, for the acting technique that we just talked about. What else is there Lau out there that can help us? 

15:57 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Well, I think you and I practice this all the time, subconsciously we do, and that is the grounding, and there's many techniques for grounding. But you need to ground yourself In the acting world. We call it sinking in. We can tell if you're not sinking in because you're floating. 

16:13 you're somewhere floating, we can hear you processing the material still yes yes, you're not grounded, you're not centered, you're not sinking in, and there's different ways to do that. Sometimes people will want a stone, a crystal, a liquid, something that's warm, that is with them and touching them and around them. That helps them ground their spirit. Sometimes it's just a mental focus, like athletes may do. They may visualize and say I'm grounding myself to the ground. 

16:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now, that's a physical, that's what I like, that I'm getting, that this is physical and I use this. Actually, laura, I did steal this from you and my students because I say grab your heart right. Yes, touch your heart because then it's going to help to connect you with those words in a meaningful way, right. 

17:01 Yes and I believe that that will help to ground you as well, like literally. I mean, of course I've got objects in my studio that I can touch, I can feel I can connect to, but of course, since I'm looking at the script right, I have to be careful because I don't want to look away from the script, because I might drop a word or two. But I love like just grab yourself that kind of like just kind of connection. 

17:22 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Yeah, it's also prep. You can stop your session and do it at any time, but it should be a prep for you, so that you're not going into it cold and expecting yourself to warm up as you go. 

17:34 but really grounding yourself and centering yourself as you're there. And you know, I actually have found that to be very disturbing to many students over the years and it probably was to me when I was younger in that we forget that we have a muscle that's the biggest one. We have the heart. We forget what that is, yeah, and so it reminds us of not only love and warmth and connection, but death. Yeah, because it reminds you there's mortality as well as life, and that's something that actors have to come to over aging and over time, because it just is a maturity thing. I think that when you feel your heart and you know, this is my lifeline to living it's also my lifeline to dying as well, and there's a beauty in that not to be morose, but there's a beauty in understanding that you're vulnerable at all moments in life. You're not in control of anything. 

18:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think the vulnerability, that's a great word. If I had a word to put in my studio to help me to connect right and to get past the words of it all and the sound of it all, I think it would be empathy. 

18:42 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Yeah, yeah, well, the mortality, I like to think is also connected to humility. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, modesty and humility and understanding. We're not that great, that big, that important that we can't be gone at any moment, so what that provides for us is the understanding of what others are going through, yeah, what others are traveling through in that journey and that takes away from, oh, the ego of it all right the ego, you know I have something I say a few times in my classes about being a great e-learning narrator is to be a great teacher right yes, and if ego rules your classroom, get out of the classroom, right. 

19:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) If ego rules your acting in reality, right, it's really not about you, it's about serving your audience, your scene, and really doing that justice Now. So we've got our sage, we've got our stretching to get out of the box and to get back in the box and to get back in the box. 

19:35 What are some things that are not necessarily voiceover related that we can do to expand right our creativeness and our creative brain. And I like to say things that aren't necessarily like voiceover related, and I'll start it off by saying aren't necessarily like voiceover related and I'll start it off by saying for me, if you can do it financially, travel Traveling to another country can give you a wonderful perspective. 

19:56 Anything that can get your creative juices flowing, that and a good movie right. So I watched a couple of great movies on the plane going out to Europe and then I was in Europe, experiencing different people, different cultures, and just watching and listening and talking and that allows me to grow spiritually, mentally, and it helps me in my performance. I mean it helps me to draw upon different experiences. 

20:19 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Huge, huge, it's everything, or even this is what I've been doing recently going to different areas and towns in my state that I've never been to before or have never heard of, and just kind of driving around looking at properties, looking at businesses, looking at to expand my universe as to what surrounds me that I have not paid attention to yet, and how does that make me feel? How do I relate to that? I think that that's important in me being able to bring it into my knowledge base, my mindset, and to that EQ. Think that that's important in me being able to bring it into my knowledge base, my mindset, and to that EQ, that emotional quotient of understanding how others are living, how others are connected to the universe, to the world, to the, whatever, wherever they live. I think that's so important. I mean it doesn't have to be expensive. 

21:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, you could go to the mall and people watch One of my most favorite things I like to do when I went to New York was just hang out, sit down and watch people, because you can learn so much by absorbing the energy. It's not even about necessarily like, do you have to go to a class to learn something? I mean you just be absorbing the energy and for me, I like to be around positive energy, but sometimes being around negative energy also tells you like, oh okay, then that's also a learning experience. 

21:29 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It reminds you too, like how do you do that when you have to do that? Because you and I are pretty positive energies and we try to stay hopeful in life and smile, but how do you do that when you have to do that? Maybe you're in a very somber or serious script, maybe you're in a character that is deeply defeated or unhappy. How do I reach that? Again, rasa boxes, how do I get into it? Very quickly and deep dive it? By understanding how people live, how they function, how they are in the world. That EQ, I think, is so—I would even venture to say, even though we're super intellectual beings, at least where we come from, culturally, eq is almost more important because it is really taking into consideration the other, the other person in a really important way, in a deep way, that many people just don't do. 

22:19 They don't think to do, that it's so about not you. 

22:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean ultimately, yeah, ultimately it's not about you. 

22:27 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Ultimately, it's not about you. 

22:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's not, but it is about you serving others or serving a purpose that can help you in the end. Right, I think it's not like you're not going to benefit if it's not about you. The fact is that it can benefit everyone, I think, if it becomes about the person. 

22:43 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Okay, so listen, I feel a quote coming up and I must allow it because I'm working on Shakespeare right now in one of my classes. As for a mirror held up to nature. So that is the human spirit by Shakespeare held up to its audience. In other words, I'm the actor, I'm the performer, I'm just mirroring you, the society, the need, the value. I'm showing you your own humanity. Yeah, absolutely. 

23:12 - Intro (Announcement) Or at least I'm attempting to. 

23:13 - Lau Lapides (Guest) I'm attempting to do that. So in the mimicry, if you will, in the mirroring, there is a profound psychological effect with your audience. It's not only like this business-like ability which comes. That is important, but it's trust. It's a nugget of heart value that lasts people a whole lifetime. That I know you do and I strive for that. It's sure we want to make money, sure we want to be successful, sure we want to do all that, but we want to make long, meaningful relationships with our audiences so that we can have that legacy. 

23:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, I mean I always was that person who had a positive legacy. Absolutely I mean, right, I always was that person who had a positive outlook on life. I mean, it was always like, you know, you and I are kind of bubbly personalities and so I that kind of has run my life, and when things happen that are not expected, like that were not in my control, I had health issues, right that, where all of a sudden I faced mortality, right, it amplified. It amplified that it wasn't about me In amplified that it wasn't about me. In reality it wasn't about me. 

24:10 And what do I want to leave? What is my legacy? How do I want to be remembered? Right, right, and it really is about like, well, when you work 70, 80 hours a week, nobody like misses their work. When they pass on, right, it's not like, oh damn, I should have worked more. It's a funny thought though, Right, I should have worked more, but really it's, I should have lived more. And I think that really kind of planning and making time for that is important. So my husband, the other day he you know now where he works, you can take a mental health day he took a mental health day. 

24:41 You know where he went? Disney. He went to Disney. And Disney is a great refresher for creativity. I'll tell you that. There you go, because you can just go and relax and have fun and allow yourself to feel right, yes, and not necessarily beaten down by the stresses of your work life. 

24:58 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Just be present. Yeah, be present in the moment, having enjoyment, having fun, having an honest enthusiasm right Right Now. Who said this? Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm. 

25:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I have to look up who that was, but it's so true it's funny because everybody's like he went alone, he went by himself and I'm like, yeah, I said look, Jerry looks at Disney, the way I look at shopping, Like I can go shopping for hours. I mean hours, I mean when. 

25:23 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Jerry travels. 

25:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I go like on a Sunday or a Saturday I'll go to the mall for like four or five hours, six hours, believe it or not. Sure, have some dinner. Sure, just walk around and observe. That's what I do. I observe, that's a lot of what I do. I'm like, yeah, I shop too, but I observe and I literally could do that all day long. So I'm like, yeah, no, I let him do that. 

25:44 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Okay, does that fall in? Just to circle back Now is that now falling into the rejuvenation factor, the regenerating? Does that fall into that stretch factor of like? What are you doing to rejuvenate and regenerate that helps you stretch, helps you grow, helps you? 

26:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) learn all these things? How does shopping help Anne grow? Well, you know, believe it or not, in a creative sense, right, we know that I'm a fashion buff. Right, we know that I'm a fashion buff, right, I'm not necessarily buying everything up in the stores, but I'm curating, I'm looking, I'm combining, I'm doing that creative, like whatever it is that creative assemblage in my head and building outfits, whether I actually purchase anything or not. And then I'm looking at people. I'm saying, oh, I like that, I like. Oh, look at that, would look good with that. And so I'm exercising Believe it or not, it's a creative exercise for me. And Jerry's like, oh, you're out shopping. No, I'm creatively exercising. 

26:38 - Intro (Announcement) I'm stretching. This is going to help my business. 

26:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm stretching this is going to help my business, but it is something like that, and you know I always say watching a great movie, something that can move you, move you to an emotion, to tears to happiness, to joy that is invigorating and that to me, is like okay, I want to make someone feel like that or I want to have an impact like that. 

26:59 And how can I achieve that? How can I do that? Through my day-to-day voice acting Right, cause I mean we all know cause, we're all in it Right, but it's not to be minimalized. 

27:08 - Lau Lapides (Guest) I mean, it's not just, oh, it's just voice acting Hell no, I mean that's something that someone says from the outside, not from the inside right when you're inside of it. Everything's a challenge. 

27:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and I'm like oh yeah, meryl Streep makes it look easy, right, she's an amazing actress, right. But that did. It did not happen overnight, and I think that, of course, there are people who have gifts, but I'm not to say that those gifts don't require work, you know, to develop and grow. 

27:35 - Lau Lapides (Guest) That's the actor challenge, though. When you see great actors, it looks easy, it looks like it's natural, they're born doing it. They don't need coaching, they don't need classes, they just do it. No, you haven't seen the whole back end of that and they just do it. No, you haven't seen the whole back end of that. And they continue learning growing. 

27:56 Yeah, johnny Depp is famous for going right into the culture and the mindset in the background and living it for a couple months before he shoots a film. You know what I mean. It's like hard work. There's a lot of hard work involved in building authenticity. Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely Right. Is there not like a bit of a what's the word? Paradox in working so hard to building authenticity that has a technical kind of fake structure to it and that is, you know, being on a microphone, right, but you have to be able to do that. You have to be able to do that and balance both. 

28:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, oh, I love this conversation. This is such a great beginning of the year conversation because it's so different from just write your goals down, and, of course, I still think you should write your goals down. But hey, before you do that, right, take stock, sage out, get yourself out of the box, go through these steps and then stretch right and then do something that will stretch your creativity even further so that you can have the absolute best 2025 ever, ever. 

28:52 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Unbelievable. I feel like we should have for that segment. We should have shaved our heads, been on a mountaintop in Tibet and drinking really delicious tea, like. I feel like we missed that part of it, but it was extraordinary, as always. 

29:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Next episode, Lau and I will be coming to you from, yeah, drinking our tea. Oh my goodness, bosses. 

29:12 - Intro (Announcement) Delicious. 

29:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's been amazing. Thank you, Lau. As always, it's just a pleasure and I look forward to our next episode together. Bosses, you too can connect and network like bosses, boss superpowers, and find out more at IPDTLcom. Big shout out to our sponsor. You guys have an amazing year week, year day, all that good stuff, and we'll see you next week. Bye. 

29:35 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

00:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, real Boss, Tom Dheere and myself have a very special deal for you guys. Tom, tell them what it is. 

00:08 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) All right, anne. If you use the promo code BOSSVOSS that's B-O-S-S as in V-O-BOSS and V-O-S as in V-O-STRATEGIST, and the number 24, so that's BOSSVOS24, you get 10% off my 30-minute check-in, my one-hour strategy session and my one-hour diagnostic. 

00:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you'll get 10% off all coaching packages and demos on the Anne Ganguzza website. So, guys, black Friday starts now and runs till the end of the year. So everybody, get yourselves on that site and get yourself a discount. BOSS, VOS, BOSS, VOS 24. 

00:43 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) BOSS, VOS 24. BOSS. VOS, BOSS, VOS, 24. BOSS, VOS, 24.

00:47 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

01:07 - Tom Dheere (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Boss Series. I am Anne Ganguzza and I'm here with amazing real boss Tom Dheere. Hey, Tom Dheere. 

01:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hello Anne Ganguzza. 

01:19 - Tom Dheere (Host) How are you? 

01:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm doing good. How are you? Happy holidays. 

01:23 - Tom Dheere (Host) I'm doing awesome. Happy holidays to you. Thank you, tom. Last week we had an amazing discussion about how to take stock and take a look at how your year has gone so far, and I think that it's very appropriate at the end of the year here to have another discussion about how we can best prepare for 2025 so that we can have the best year ever. 

01:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely Now. I've done videos like this or taught classes that discuss this every year for probably the past 13 years or so since I started instructing, I want to do something a little different than the normal thing that I do. We'll get to that, but before we, started recording. 

02:03 I was listening to a podcast that was doing a post-presidential election Monday morning quarterback reverse engineer breakdown of like what happened. We're not going to talk about politics on any level, but there was something very specific that the guests talked about. They were talking about identity politics, as in how do you identify and how does that influence what you think, what you feel and, of course, obviously, how you vote, and of course, there's gender and race and all of those types of things. But they gave a very specific example of like, for example, west Virginia coal miners. They said, okay, west Virginia coal miners, we know better than you because coal is naughty, so we're going to take away your jobs, but we're going to get you a job coding, and to some people that's like oh, what a wonderful idea. But to the coal miners that may be a horrible idea. 

02:57 And this is why I talk about politics, because people identify in certain specific ways. And I'm also talking about this not from a class level but a vocation level, because coal miner is an identity. Farmer is an identity, zooming out more. I work with the land, I work with my hands, I like to work outside. This is who I am, this is what speaks to me and feeds my soul as a person, as well as puts food on the table. 

03:28 The reason I'm bringing up this, anne, is because and I never even thought about this before I identify as a voice actor, and I know that may sound weird. I identify as a coal miner, I identify as a farmer, I identify as a voice actor. But I decided I wanted to be a voice actor when I was 23 years old, like I was a kid, you know, I just dropped out of grad school and I decided this is what I want to do and it's the only thing I've. I mean, I've had a part-time job doing this and that I've had full-time jobs to make money, but it was all the means to an end of being a voice actor. So I have identified as a voice actor my entire adult life. How does this relate to how to get ready for the new year? I think all you bosses should think about how do you identify? And I'm going to break that down into two very specific categories. 

04:20 Yeah, as an artist or as a business Now, Anne as the wonderful performance coach that she is helps you realize the artist within you. I, as the VO strategist, help you realize the business that is within you. Right, this is what's really important is that if you identify 100% as an artist and spreadsheets and keeping track of invoices, be damned, you're in trouble. You're not going to be the artist that you want to be and eat. If you're 100% business, I want to do the genres that make the most money and keep all this artsy, fartsy stuff off my lawn. You're in trouble because now you're refusing to identify with the artistry. That is voiceover. That requires emotional journeys, expression. You know there's psychology and inward reflection and all of that stuff. 

05:17 - Tom Dheere (Host) So you need to identify then with both. Correct then? Is that what you're saying? 

05:21 - Intro (Announcement) Because I was just going to ask you can I identify as an educator. 

05:25 - Tom Dheere (Host) I always think that. I say it multiple times. I feel like I've been an educator all my life because I used to teach my dolls flashcards from the very beginning. I mean, that's what brings me joy. And, yes, voice acting, of course. Voice acting because that's the creative aspect of it, right, but probably a little bit more. I enjoy being an educator and sharing things with others and hopefully inspiring and motivating, but also I really love entrepreneurship. So I feel like that teaching with entrepreneurship that's how I identify and it's funny because, tom, that you say that because all my life, through my career, before I was in education in some form or fashion, all along I also was placed in these management positions where I would be the liaison between the art department and the technology department. So I feel like I've got the creative and the business or the technical side within me, and so I think I've always identified with two, really two different aspects of it and I love that you just said that because you just I feel good now. I feel like I feel seen. 

06:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely, and part of having an identity or how you identify is you also demand, or you should demand. I would like to say that people see you as who you are and I had this problem with friends, people that I thought were friends in my 30s because I identified as a voice actor, and they didn't take that identity seriously. They didn't respect my identity. And, to your point, the fact that you could work in this corporate environment and liaise with the business people and the marketing people. It means you speak business, you speak marketing, you speak entrepreneur, you speak art and you also speak educator. 

07:06 I identify as an educator Also, you identify as an educator. You can identify as more than one thing, but with the artist and the business part, which are two critical components to be effective as a voice actor, you need to be in touch with both of those things, have a level of self-awareness, because some people come in from a theater background, a very heavily artistic background. Some people come from a radio background, which is an art form in itself, but it's very announcer-y as opposed to storyteller-y Storyteller-y, I guess that's a word now. 

07:40 - Tom Dheere (Host) That's a good word, Tom. 

07:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Storyteller-y. You don't have to identify as a marketer to enjoy or tolerate marketing as a voice actor. It's a part of what you need to do, but at its core you need to identify as an artist. I would say at your core, because this is about expression and engagement and getting people to feel certain ways and obviously do different things. Go buy this car call now. Operators are standing by, but identify that. The business too. 

08:08 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, here's what I like about this and this is what I like to tell my students is I always step back when people are like I don't really relate, I don't resonate with this genre or I don't resonate with or I don't like marketing and I don't like certain parts of this running this business. And so, in reality, I always try to tell them to step back and say what is it that you love? Because I would say creative and entrepreneur. Right, creative entrepreneur? You know that kind of thing. I identify with multiple levels, I mean, and under that, creative is voice actor, but I also love, like voicing corporate, and I love voicing e-learning, of course, because I identify as an educator, but I love corporate as well because it's a challenge To me. 

08:47 I say step back and look at the things that you don't like and embrace the challenge, because that speaks to your creative part, like solving a problem. And so, for me, I've always told people, if you really truly hate and you're trying hard to find inspiration to get into that character, embrace the challenge. If you don't know like what kind of an actor or what kind of a character to be when you're teaching and e-learning, you need to embrace the challenge of how are you going to teach this lesson in an engaging manner. So step back. If you don't like corporate copy, step back and say there's a story in there somewhere. Where is it? 

09:19 The challenge is to find that, and the challenge for me as an entrepreneur, is to solve the problem of how am I going to make money with my product, right? And so it's always that challenge, that intellectual challenge and that creative challenge, that speak to both or three things that I identify as which is creative, entrepreneur and educator. So it speaks to all of those things running a business, and so those things that you don't enjoy, that you hate, try to step back and look at the challenge that they present for you and embrace the challenge and embrace how are you going to solve this problem. And that's what I feel like helps me to love all aspects of it and, of course, the stuff that I really don't love. We've talked about this before, tom. We say go ahead, outsource it to the experts in the field. 

10:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, it is difficult to reconcile all of these hats that you have to wear to be an effective voice actor and remember that, yes, you only have one head, so they kind of stack up like Dr Seuss's Bartholomew in the Thousand and One Hats. It's not easy. This is not an easy thing to do. So, with all that in mind, I brought up the how do you identify as a voice actor, or how do you identify as an educator or a marketer or a business person, because that should inform what you need to do and what you need to be and what you need to have to set yourself up for success in 2025. 

10:45 Because, yes, a goal, I want to make this amount of money, I want to get this kind of representation, I want to produce this demo, I want to get on this social media platform. All of those are valid, all of those are important, but you can only be effective if you know who you are and understand who you need to be to be effective. Whether you like it or not, if there's one thing I tell all my students is the voiceover industry does not care. If you don't like social media, the voiceover industry does not care. If you don't like spreadsheets, the voiceover industry does not care if you don't like auditioning. It does not care. It has no sympathy. Either you do it or you're out. 

11:26 - Tom Dheere (Host) People hiring your voice don't care. People hiring your voice don't care. They just want the voice. 

11:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They just want the product, they want the voice, they want the invoice, you know. 

11:38 - Tom Dheere (Host) And I do want to say to your point of making sure you know who you identify with, but also know that you can evolve and change right, so your identity can change and evolve. Because if you want to diversify that business, right, Setting new goals for next year If you want to diversify into another genre I mean the broad spectrum part of it is I identify as a voice actor. Is there a specific type of voice actor that you truly identify with? Oh, I really consider myself, you know, an audiobook narrator, right, and so you can evolve and change right that identity or narrow down that identity or broaden out that identity based upon your goals for the following year. Because I know that myself, in order to diversify my business, I've had to do that, and it doesn't happen overnight sometimes. Sometimes you've got to sit with it and think it and let it come, because it's a creative challenge. 

12:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. I'm so glad that you said audiobook narrator is the first example, because there's a handful of genres that people will say I'm this genre before they even say that they're a voice actor. What do you do for a living? I'm an audiobook narrator. That's one of what I call the lifestyle genres, as in you can be a full-time audiobook narrator. 

12:49 You can be narrating audiobooks five days a week every year and have a pipeline, and do it at the exclusion of all other genres of voiceover and make a good living doing it. So a lot of people identify as their genre before they identify as a voice actor. In general, I'm the opposite I'm a voice actor, and the reason why I say that is because, well one, I love storytelling and I love storytelling in all its forms whether it's a 15-second commercial or it's a 30-hour audio book. 

13:19 It's all storytelling. I'll tell any story you want and any style that you want and any medium that you want for any audience that you want. And then some people say I am an e-learning narrator or I'm a cartoon narrator, and that's good and I think it's healthy too, because the firmer of an identity that you have when it comes to setting goals for the new year, which is what this conversation is all about it's easier because I tell my students vague goals will get you vague results. Specific goals will get you specific results and that feeds into vague efforts. 

13:51 - Tom Dheere (Host) Exactly. And if you narrow down that you want to get into, let's say, audiobook narrating, then you'll have a specific set of goals that will help you to get there. If you want to be an e-learning narrator, you have specific sets of goals that will get you there. So, yeah, I think if, at the broad level, you say I am a voice actor, I am an artist, I'm a business person, I'm a serial entrepreneur I like to call myself that Because I love the challenge of like how can I make money from this? And it makes me feel like I don't want you guys to think I'm all about money, but it's not really that. It's about the challenge of taking something and building it from the ground up and then that kind of exhilaration and satisfaction when it works is amazing. When it doesn't work. 

14:32 You know what I learned from that as well. 

14:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, you know what I want to do now, Anne. I want to use this as an example for you. So for you bosses who are watching this, you want to set goals for 2025. Maybe try it through the prism of identity. Let's use this example In 2025, I wish to identify as an e-learning narrator. That's your goal, okay, so what do you need to do to be able to achieve that goal of identifying as an e-learning narrator? Well, the first thing is training and, of course, I use e-learning as an example, because you should go to Anne Ganguzza to get your e-learning training. But can? You should go to Anne Ganguzza to get your e-learning training. 

15:08 - Tom Dheere (Host) But can we ask one question? Yes, can we ask one question before we say I want to go into e-learning. Why, why do you want to be? 

15:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There you go. Why do you want to identify as an e-learning narrator? I think that's important, right, and that's a fantastic question, because for some of you it may be I've been a school teacher for 25 years and I'm retiring and that's what you want to do. Or you just may be an academic, you may be a scholar and you just love learning. So you want to share your love of learning as opposed to being a teacher, and you want to share your love of teaching. So figuring out the why is a great way to start. And then, once you figure out that, why? Because e-learning, as Anne can tell you, takes on many different forms. Medical narration is a form of e-learning, narrating textbooks, narrating human resources, resource guides or, you know, forklift, certification for construction workers, or executive summaries or any or a number of things, and some of that you may identify with more strongly and others you may not identify with as much. But once you figure out that why, then you go to the how. 

16:15 Why do I want to identify? Why could I identify as an e-learning narrator? And then, how can I do that? Get training with Anne, make a great demo. Then you need to figure out the marketing part of that you also need to build, possibly, a landing page on your website. Maybe you need to build a list of e-learning clients that you could direct market to. Maybe you need to join some online casting sites that have a lot of e-learning casting opportunities and so on and so on and so forth. So you can kind of plot that out. If, by December 31st 2025, you have said I now identify as an e-learning narrator, both inside and outside, and, like Anne said, figure out the why that's the inside part and then training, demo, website marketing, casting sites, direct emails, which turns into e-learning jobs, now you can realize that goal of identifying as an e-learning narrator. 

17:11 - Tom Dheere (Host) Now also, if I could just interject and say that, when you're figuring out what it is, what are your goals for the following year? And I think also researching the industry. Tom and I have spoken about the industry and how it's evolved in past episodes and how it's evolved in past episodes, and I want you to know and we also just came back from a conference where we were discussing how are these genres being affected by disruptive technologies such as synthetic voice or AI? And, just to let you know, e-learning is alive and well, as well as corporate. I personally, I talk about looking at the market space, right 33.2 million registered companies. How many of them are going to use synthetic voices? Probably the ones that don't care about engagement or storytelling, right? And that's the same amount of people, I believe, that didn't care that the narrator could tell a story either, and maybe they just had a nice-sounding reading voice, and so they might hire somebody for that, and so the same people that are going to hire for that are going to still hire for that, and they may go to AI. 

18:12 But I believe that there's a huge, huge market. It is the largest market out there, really, of all the genres, when you're talking about percentage of opportunities out there. So, guys, just because you might be hearing stories about how all e-learning is going to AI, I stand up and object to that, not because I don't want it to, but, honestly, when you look at the realistic numbers of the market space, yeah, some of it's going to go there, but some of it's going to go there for every genre, right. You still have a really large market to work with here that I don't see going away anytime soon. Tom, I don't know what about you. 

18:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I still believe that there's plenty of work for everybody that knows what they're doing. 

18:51 And the question is do you bosses know what you're doing? I would say just the fact that you're having this conversation with us and listening to us means you are much farther ahead of the game than a lot of other people, because you're taking it upon yourself to educate yourself about the voiceover industry through the VO Boss podcast. With all that in mind, yes, the industry is changing. Yes, ai is here. It has been here. It is causing the overall voiceover industry to contract. That is unquestionable, and some people are asking it from the perspective of genre, and Anne heard me say this when I moderated the AI panel very recently at the Mid-Atlantic VoiceOver Conference, that I think it's a bottom-up thing, that the lowest budget content will be the stuff that gets eaten up by AI. First and this is why I'm going to talk to you about this part bosses, about setting your goals for 2025. 

19:45 Another mission, because there's goals and then there's missions. A mission to identify as an e-learning narrator I think is a very noble mission and we kind of walked through that. But another mission can be to be a better storyteller than AI, and you have to be that because more and more of the work is going to get eaten up on a low performance low budget level, which is, for the most part, entry-level work for lack of a better term for a lot of people who are entering the voiceover industry. So that means you need to make sure that you have quality performance training storytelling training, on-camera theater, opera, improv, stand-up comedy. Get that training to complement Aang Ganguzza's e-learning training and all the other wonderful coaches out there so you can hit the ground running and already be relevant and already be more of an effective performer than AI. 

20:40 - Tom Dheere (Host) And you know what else, tom, worst case scenario and I don't want to like worst case scenario for next year, but worst case scenario there is no voiceover industry anymore. Right, if you've gained all these skills, right, building a business Hello, building a business right. Understanding how to have a product, market it and sell it right, you have a business. And also performance wise right, as an actor. Gosh, these performance skills can be put into so many everyday opportunities for work. If, for whatever reason Now I'm not going to say the voice industry is going to fall out, but I think as business people, we have to always be prepared, right. So those skills that you develop right in becoming the best actor that you can be, are going to help you down the road for anything that you do, if you're presenting, if you are trying to sell yourself in an interview, I mean, all of these things really are beneficial, I think, to your personal and professional growth and development. So it's not a waste of investment ever. 

21:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't think it's funny because, as you were saying that, I thought of two professions. There are people who train lawyers to speak in court. That requires an acting coach of some sort. And there's another voice actor I know who trains actors to be professional patients at medical schools so they can exhibit certain symptoms, so the medical students can diagnose their ailments. 

21:58 - Tom Dheere (Host) So this is not about exit strategies for when? 

22:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) AI eats voiceover. But Anne's point is very sound. 

22:05 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, no, it's just investment, yeah. 

22:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, investing in yourself. Here's another thing that I'm starting to notice. Yeah, search engine results. If you're using Google or Bing or Yahoo, whatever, I've noticed that, at least with the voiceover-related searches, which is most of what I do for various reasons, ai companies are starting to show up more in the sponsored results. 

22:32 - Tom Dheere (Host) Have you noticed this, anne. Well, I know that the AI answer is always coming up first, and so I don't know if I've noticed AI companies specifically advertising their services. But AI answers and responses. 

22:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, this is what I'm saying. Absolutely, it's both, because, like I use a Chrome browser. 

22:44 I tend to use Google the most often and I'll get that AI answer before I get other answers, but it'll be the AI answer. It'll be these AI-sponsored companies, as, pertaining to voiceover and then all the normal Google results, I'm wondering that a lot of these AI companies have been recruiting and contracting with voice actors like us, and now that they've gotten enough of a voice roster of human voices that they're cloning speech to speech or text to speech, and they've gotten all their software ducks in a row and they've gotten all their marketing ducks in a row, that they may be going for it possibly this year. And I say that, bosses, to light a fire under your butts. It's time to stop being professional students. It's time to get out there and start working. Keep getting your coaching with Ann, keep producing your demos, keep developing your skills, but get off the fence. Get on top of it. 

23:38 - Tom Dheere (Host) So you can go and advertise your product. All right, so we've got step one. Right is how do you identify right, your, why? 

23:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) right. 

23:47 - Tom Dheere (Host) Understanding, I would say, educating the industry and what it is that you identify with. And if you want to move into or add additional genres or whatever you want to do for your business, to really investigate, educate yourself on that. And now we kind of have the goal that we're setting and then we're working backwards right, we're like reverse engineering the goal. So what will it take to achieve that goal? What other tips do you have, tom? We're writing this down, I assume, because that's what I tell people. It always helps to write down. 

24:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I certainly hope our bosses are writing this down. 

24:18 - Tom Dheere (Host) I don't know if I have much writing skills anymore, but you know I do have paper and pen and there's lots of great planners out there. 

24:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I will give some quick tips that I usually talk to my students about, now that we're talking about identity, which also is a form of how do you define success? So that's a part of it. How do you identify? Figuring out which genres, like we said, you want to identify as an e-learning narrator in 2025. But then the third one is what are the portals? Your bosses have heard me talk about this before the three portals of voiceover that connect voice actors to voiceover casting opportunities, which are representation, online casting sites, self-marketing strategies. So, for example, if you want to identify as an e-learning narrator in 2025, most agents don't cast e-learning. 

25:04 - Tom Dheere (Host) Correct. 

25:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Which means you don't need to seek representation in 2025, most agents don't cast e-learning Correct, which means you don't need to seek representation in 2025. However, there are tons of casting sites that have lots of e-learning opportunities and, of course, you can engage in direct and indirect marketing strategies to build lists of potential clients, cold email them more follow-up emails to stay top of mind, so you can see how. Now you can kind of plot it out into I need to be this, why do I want to be this, how am I going to do this and who am I going to connect with to get the casting opportunities that I want? 

25:34 - Tom Dheere (Host) And, by the way, part of that direct marketing where you're doing the cold emailing and generating the lists and stuff that Tom helps you to do as well the VO Boss brand has a product for direct marketing as well that could be of interest. That will also help you with all different genres e-learning, corporate and that is using a vetted list that exists and you can find out more obviously at vobosscom and set up an appointment to talk to me about that as well if you're interested. That's another valid marketing. In addition to the marketing that Tom talks to you about, I think you need everything you can get. To be quite honest, get yourself out there, I agree. 

26:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I agree. 

26:12 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, tom, this has been a great conversation. So, bosses, we are manifesting for you and with you, the most successful 2025 ever for all of you. So make sure that you are taking stock in how your year has gone and let's go ahead and set those goals. And, guys, we're here for you. We want to hear feedback how is it going, how are your goals being set, and what do you guys want to do for 2025? So, tom, it's been a pleasure, as always. Thank you so much for all of your words of wisdom, and I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like real bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. All right, guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next year. Bye. 

27:01 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

Delve into year-end evaluations and developing a robust plan for next year's voiceover success. THE BOSSES share expert advice on setting clear objectives, utilizing effective marketing techniques, and maintaining enthusiasm in the unpredictable realm of freelance work. They give invaluable advice on maintaining passion, setting precise goals, and implementing effective marketing strategies. THE BOSSES also share strategies for balancing financial and time investments to align emotional satisfaction with professional objectives.  00:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, real Boss, Tom Dheere and myself have a very special deal for you guys. Tom, tell them what it is. 

00:08 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) All right, nne. If you use the promo code BOSSVOSS that's B-O-S-S as in V-O-BOSS and V-O-S as in V-O-STRATEGIST, and the number 24, so that's BOSSVOS24, you get 10% off my 30-minute check-in, my one-hour strategy session and my one-hour diagnostic. 

00:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you'll get 10% off all coaching packages and demos on the Anne Ganguzza website. So, guys, black Friday starts now and runs till the end of the year. So everybody, get yourselves on that site and get yourself a discount. BOSS, VOS, BOSS, VOS 24. 

00:43 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) BOSS, VOS 24. Boss. VOS, BOSS, VOS, 24. BOSS, VOS, 24.

00:47 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

01:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Boss Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and of course, I am here with the one and only amazing Mr Tom Dheere. 

01:18 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Hello Anne, hello bosses. 

01:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hi Tom Dheere. Hi Tom, it's getting close to the end of the year, getting cold, getting ready for the holidays. At the end of the year, I always try to kind of step back and take a look at how did my year go, and I know that this is what you do. This is kind of like this is like your thing as the VO strategist. So I'd love to hear how you evaluate your year, because I want some tips actually, and I'm sure the bosses out there can always use some good end of year tips for evaluating how your business is going. 

01:57 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) And I'll be happy to share those. I do the feels. You know. There's the emotional part of it. Just how did I feel about the year? Did I feel energized? Did I feel motivated? Did I feel satisfied? The emotional part of it Just how did I feel about the year? Did I feel energized? Did I feel motivated? Did I feel satisfied with the art of it? Was I able to express myself in the ways that I wanted or needed to express myself as both a voiceover artist, but also as a human being, Because there's a psychological aspect to what we do, Everybody has a different reason for why they want to be a voice actor. 

02:26 You know, like Tom Dheere loves to tell stories. I love to talk, I'm a big talker, I'm a fast talker, but I just love telling stories. I love going on journeys and guiding people through journeys. And it's funny because ever since I did my very first paid voiceover in 1996, I've always had the question you know, how'd I do as an artist? You know, and every year the answer is a little bit better because I learn a little bit more. 

02:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love how you evaluated, first of all, the why. Right, because I think we always need to step back and say remember your why. Why are we doing it in the first place? Right, because if it gets to the point where it's stressing you out too much or you're I'm like my corporate job did that. 

03:04 So I mean honestly like one of the reasons why I did this was to go into business for myself was because I found joy in running a business. I found joy in being creative and telling stories, such as yourself. And I love how you opened with that, because when I asked you, I was thinking, gosh, you're going to bring out your spreadsheet and you're going to be like all right, the business analyst is here and we're going to talk about how our year went, which I'm sure you're going to talk about anyways. But I love how you opened it with what is your why and how did you feel about it? Because I think you have to have the feels first right in order to want to continue and have the passion and the drive to keep moving forward. 

03:41 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well, if there's no feels, then why are you doing it? And if you're doing it just for a paycheck, voiceover is the worst way to try to make money. It's so hard. 

03:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's so hard. Wait, I feel like on the count of three, Tom, it's so hard. 

03:59 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) And it takes forever to find out if you can make money and how long it's going to take you to make money, that's going to feel like it validates you at all, and if you wanted to get to part-time or if you want it to be something that's going to cover all your expenses and help save for retirement. Like you know, if there's a hundred jobs out there, there's 99 out there that are better to make money and have a paycheck than this one. So if you are doing this, it better have the feels right Now. 

04:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) why do you say that, though I do want to ask you why do you say that there's a hundred jobs better at making the money? Why do we say that and the two of us are like oh my God, it's hard, but give a little more background to that, to that. Why? 

04:40 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I'm talking in the context of something that gives you personal fulfillment. Now, in all fairness, if your passion is photography and you want to be a photographer, the principle is the same You're a freelancer. You have to figure out how to make your own work, how to market yourself, how to brand yourself, how to manage your finances. So the principles are all the same. So the self-employed things like voiceover or photography I want to be a singer, dancer, actor, model, musician, freelance graphic artist, I want to open my own yoga business or whatever. But for everything else banking, legal healthcare and healthcare and all of these things can be emotionally and psychologically rewarding, but those tend to be far more stable forms of income, you know. So my point is is that if you're going to get into something as difficult to pursue like photography or voiceover or being a musician, if it doesn't have the feels, then why are you doing it? You're just some kind of masochist who just likes to make your life as difficult as humanly possible, you know. 

05:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I read an interesting blog about when you're in freelance and you're doing stuff like we're voice actors. I mean, it's all about certainty. Right, we've given up our certainty, because if we've worked for people in the corporate world like I did, I mean I was certain I was getting that paycheck every two weeks, I mean as long as I was employed. This. Now you've entered into the era, or into a vortex, of uncertainty, and that is, I think, where Tom and I are like it's hard, it's hard and yeah. So if it doesn't give you the feels, then yeah, you have to make a lot of sacrifices for that. 

06:15 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Voiceover the vortex of uncertainty, the vortex of uncertainty. 

06:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'll tell you. Not that we don't love it. I mean, gosh, we've both been in this over 15 years, right, tim? So it's like, really, I mean I would not have stayed with it. I don't think I could ever work for someone again, unless it's like an in-out get paid for the job and we're done. 

06:33 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Oh no, I can't work for anybody again. 

06:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All my jobs? Yeah, I enjoy my, and the first step is to assess the feels right. So do we still have the same feeling about voiceover. Do we still find the same joy in it as we did when we started? Okay, all right, that's good, that's step number one. Then what, tom? 

07:05 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well then, it's time to break that down, because everybody has dreams in voiceover and people like Ann Ganguza, who is a masterful genre coach and demo producer. 

07:09 That's part of the journey of helping to make your dreams come true. Get quality training, get a demo that you can use as a marketing tool to get the casting opportunities that you want to help make your dreams come true. But I tell all my students, vague goals will get you vague results. Specific goals will get you specific results. Yes, I also say that vague efforts will get you vague results. Specific goals will get you specific results. Yes, I also say that vague efforts will get you vague results. Specific efforts will get you specific results. So, when it comes to analyzing your business and reconciling the feels with what do I need to do and be and have to fulfill me? Narrate cartoons or video games or military history, audio books or college textbooks or whatever it is that blows your hair back to get the feels that you desire? You need to be able to put in the time and money and energy and effort on a business and marketing sense to be able to get the casting opportunities that you want so you can get the feels right. 

08:00 Yes, absolutely, and this is why, I tell my students the more specific you are about what you want, the better of a chance you're going to have to get what you want, and your goals can change from year to year. 

08:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So then, is this the step that's next in terms of like figuring out goals that you want for the next year, or are we still in the assessment phase of how, this year, went. 

08:21 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) It directly flows into the goals that you want, because your goals also are going to change from year to year. So like, for example, this is 2024. One of my main voiceover goals was to book political voiceover work. I'm doing my research and taking classes and listening to experts in the area. I knew this was going to be a big opportunity to be a political voice actor for a lot of people. 

08:46 My worry was that my sound, which is not the vote for this person and if you don't, the other one will eat your children. Like, I can't do that. My vocal folds are just not thick enough to be able to pull off that, or at least I just sound like I'm trying too hard. So it's like is there a place for me with my personality, my skill sets, the thickness of my vocal folds, to be able to get voiceover work? So I set a number for myself of how many political jobs I wanted to do this year and what are the things I need to do to be able to achieve those goals. So training yes, check. Little JMC, little Brandon Perry Okay, check. Demo yes, got the spots. Also added and embellished the demo with previous political work that I'd done in 2022 and 2023, because that's when I decided I wanted to give this a shot. And then marketing acumen Get representation that specializes in booking political voiceover work, going on casting sites and keeping an eye out for political work, as well as optimizing my profile to feed the algorithms to get political voiceover work. And use direct marketing strategies to be able to develop relationships with production companies that specialize in political work and develop relationships with them and get work. 

10:05 And I did all three of those things and, to a greater or lesser extent, it worked in all three of those ways. So I did hit the number of political spots that I wanted to book this year. How do I know that? Well, I can count, but how does one keep track of this stuff? So I use my cash flow sheet, which is a free download at vo strategistcom, and it tracks every penny that goes into my voiceover business and every penny that goes out of my voiceover business. 

10:34 So obviously I track all of the voiceover work that I did, what kind of genre it was, how much money I made, who did I work with, how I got the booking this is where being able to look back on your year and figuring out how you did, because having the feels, like I said, is critical. It's the most important thing. But you need to find out how much money did you spend this year? Where did you put your money Training, demo production, marketing, other things? Where did you put your time and energy? Cold calling versus auditioning, versus blogging, versus social media, versus workshops, versus conferences, versus local events versus national events? And how did all of that stuff pan out? What efforts did you put into 2024 that turned into what you want, which is the voiceover bookings, to get you the feels, to get that fulfillment of yes, I am realizing myself as a voice actor. 

11:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And that free downloadable has all of those aspects on there, like social media, like this is how you got the job social, oh wow, that's fabulous. 

11:38 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, so I'll talk everybody through. It is that the first column just has a little code. It's VO for voiceover, VOS for VO strategist. Because I track all my coaching stuff on there too, and then it's either the expense like you know, paperclips or whatever I bought, or a class that I took, or whatever that I attended, or whatever the voiceover is, and then I so I track what the voiceover is Do you buy paperclips, Tom? 

12:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I haven't bought paperclips in years. 

12:02 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I have so many paperclips from you know my analog days that I'll never need to buy another paperclip again, so maybe that wasn't the best example. 

12:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know, no, but I love it. I just was thinking about it. God, do we use paperclips anymore? Anyway, sorry. 

12:16 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Barely, barely. I barely use paperclips. I use my stapler all the time, but I don't use my paperclip anymore. 

12:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, I do too. I still use my stapler. 

12:23 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah. 

12:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Okay, Staples. 

12:25 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Anyway, at Staples, yes, one of my favorite places. It's like Disneyland for me that and the container store, if you've ever been to a container store. 

12:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, yes, I love the container store. 

12:35 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Love those. 

12:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There's one not far from me Stupidly expensive containers, but boy do I love them. But boy do I love them. They're worth every penny. 

12:49 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I just love walking around in there. They are, it's like Willy Wonka Good stuff Anyway. Oh, my mileage. I tracked my tolls, you know, because I drove from Manhattan to Virginia, specifically, and back. I tracked all the tolls in and out of the Lincoln Tunnel across the Delaware Bridge. 

13:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Can I tell you, please Can? 

13:05 I tell you, I tracked my $6 butter that I bought from the bar so that I could put it on my Royal Cousin bagel Because I'm a girl who loves butter on her bagels. And so it was like late at night and I went to the bar and I said can I buy some butter? And he's like butter. And I said, well, I have a bagel. I said, have you ever had a bagel from New Jersey? And he's like okay, and the first he comes back with two or three. Like I'm like no, no, no, no, that's not going to work for me. 

13:35 He's just two or three little pats of that container, like I need like two or three per like square inch of a bagel for that. And ultimately he says I'm going to have to charge you and I said, okay, sure, so how much is that going to cost me? He goes and I'm like I thought about it it was late at night and I really wanted that bagel and I said, all right, put it on my tab. So that's been tracked. 

13:56 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Just wanted to clear the air on that. Just wanted to clear the air of that $6 butter. It's a tax deduction because it's a food expense at a professional event. 

14:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thank you, roy. Thank you, roy for my bagel. 

14:10 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I allowed myself to eat a bagel. This time. I had half a pumpernickel myself when I was down there I ate an entire bagel. 

14:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I might have eaten one and a half, tom, because you know. 

14:16 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I gotta have a lot of butter. Yeah well, I understand you had to make it worth the $6 that you put out. 

14:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thank you, Uncle. 

14:21 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Roy. Thank you, roy. I track all the traveling expenses and obviously, every meal, I amount of money that I made. I enter the invoice that I generated for every voiceover that I did, the form of payment check, direct deposit, paypal, credit card, wise, formerly known as TransferWise. Oh, I also currency, because I get a lot of European clients, so I get paid in euros as well as dollars and British pounds. 

14:51 But this is how to look at your voiceover business marketing-wise is that I have a section which I either type in AB for audition booking or DB for direct booking, because I like to know did I get this through a one-to-one audition I auditioned once I booked one gig or is it a regular client or a legacy client that just said oh Tom, here's another explainer video and you don't have to do an audition? So this year, 2024, my direct bookings were roughly 80% of my voiceover work and the audition one-to-one auditions were roughly 20% of my voiceover work. And the question is you get these numbers, but what do they mean? What that means for me, tom Dheere, is that I have legacy clients dating back to 1997 that I don't audition for anymore. So that's clearly an accumulation of building regular clients over an extremely long period of time. 

15:45 And that's great, but I also need to know how relevant I am in the voiceover industry, because if you book an audition this year. That means that your voice, your sound, your performance is in demand and you're keeping up with casting trends. 

15:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Love that and 20% is pretty good. 

16:02 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) The other thing I do is I track the portal. How did I get this casting opportunity? The three portals in the voiceover industry are representation, online casting sites, self-marketing strategies. So, looking at my spreadsheet, so we're not quite at the end of the year yet, but we're pretty close. Right now it's only 8% of my work came through representation, 42% came through online casting. That's both free sites and pay-to-play sites. 26% came through direct marketing, 23% came through indirect marketing. 

16:33 So what do those numbers mean? Well, it means a couple of things. One, you line up the genres of voiceover that you want to do with the portals that you need to use to get them. So, for example, agents don't cast audiobooks or explainers. So if I did a lot of audiobook work this year, that means I probably got it through ACX or Findaway, voices or Ahab or any of the other audiobook-centric casting sites. Or and this also happens a lot is that you develop direct relationships with audiobook production companies Hachette, podium Publishing, Oasis, a whole bunch of other places and so I can look and go oh okay, well, I got a lot of work through that too. So it's reconciling the genre of voiceover, the type of bookings that I got, with how I got them. So, for example, political so far has been my best genre. 23.9% of my voiceover revenue was political. Second best was e-learning. I do a ton of e-learning. I've had clients dating back to the 90s, so that makes sense. 

17:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, does your spreadsheet calculate the percentage? Do you have like formulas built into that spreadsheet? That's awesome. 

17:41 I do, I'm going to just ask, because I know there's a lot of bosses out there thinking this oh good Lord, it's a spreadsheet, and their eyes are already like rolling back in their heads because it's like overwhelming. Right, but tell me, how much time does it take for them to account for this? Because, if you think about it, this is nothing more than an expense report, really, and a little bit more right If you were to travel for your job, right? And so I feel like you always have to fill out an expense report in order to get paid for it. So this is kind of like your expense report slash income statement, inflow, outflow yeah, report for your business. And so how long should you expect to sit down at the end of a day, at the end of a week, and fill that out? 

18:20 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) A couple minutes. 

18:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Okay. So see that, guys. It's only a couple of minutes, yeah it's only a couple of minutes. 

18:27 And so even as overwhelming, like Tom is coming up with all these numbers and these statistics from his own job and his own year, but yet he's only spent a few minutes a day jotting this stuff down, and I think it's just something like muscle memory. As much as you go and practice character development or practice your scripts, it is time invested that you have to put into your studio, and I just want to say that. I think I want to clarify, tom, that there's a number of people that get into this industry because they find joy in reading books or they find joy in creating characters. However, not everybody finds joy in the work that's required, right, to actually create and delve in deeper to that character or delve in deeper to growing a business. As much joy as these things bring you, there is work involved and I just want to acknowledge and, tom, we've said it before multiple times it's hard, right. I mean not every single aspect of your business is going to be like, I mean, until you're probably established right, eight hours in the booth doing joyful, light character work. 

19:27 If that's what you want to do, there is the other work that it takes to get you to that place to feel joyful, as you were explaining right so you can derive the feels right. 

19:38 And so this assessment, this end of your assessment, can give you such valuable insight into where you've gone and where you want to go in the future and how much time you're going to have to dedicate to different aspects of it. And so it's worth the couple of minutes and I say that it's worth a couple of minutes, like to my students that are in performance. I say it's worth a couple of minutes to do that copy analysis, to do that character development, to do that scene writing, because in the end, that's what's going to pay off and get you the gig. Because in the end, that's what's going to pay off and get you the gig. Because ultimately, you can go in and create characters all you want, but until you make a profit doing that right, that's just all you're doing is going in your studio and creating characters, and if it's something that needs to pay the bills, that may not happen. Until you put in a little more work, that may not be as pleasant. 

20:25 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Right. I mean I've been developing this spreadsheet for 20 years, and I have been developing this spreadsheet for 20 years and I have all sorts of little formulas and things in there, yeah. 

20:34 - Intro (Announcement) You get the benefit and you can have it for free. 

20:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Tom, is this for free? Oh my God, for free. That's so awesome, right? You don't have to put the work in that Tom. You're getting the benefit of Tom. This is why we call him the VO strategist, right? And if you need help, there he is, tom. I'm sure people can come see you and work with you, that you can help streamline this so that it becomes something that isn't so tedious or isn't something that you're questioning Well, why am I not booking work, or why is this not happening in my business? So, if you need an accountability partner and I'll tell you what I'm the first person to say that in my business, I will invest in something that will keep me on track, something that will keep me going. I have a business coach I invest in on a monthly basis, an accountability partner. Tom is like one of the best out there and he's done all this work for you. Sorry, I'm just. I'm gushing right now, tom. 

21:27 But, bosses that know me like I don't bullshit sorry, I just don't I. But bosses that know me like I don't—bullshit sorry, I just don't. I'm honest to probably a fault, but I would not talk about Tom, nor would I have Tom on my podcast so many times if I didn't believe in what he's doing and I didn't believe that you're going to gain such value. And again, this won't be an month for Peloton so that I can get on that bike and be inspired and motivated by the Peloton instructor. 

21:57 This is kind of no different right. It's worth it to me because the benefits, right that I get health-wise and joy-wise from getting on the bike and exercising and being inspired and motivated are very well worth the investment. And being inspired and motivated are very well worth the investment. And so, if this is something that you are not going to be disciplined enough to do, I believe that it's well worth your investment to really start seeing where your business has gone so that you can understand where to take it in the future right and guide it towards success. I stepped down from my podium. 

22:29 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Thank you, that was very kind of you. Thank you for all that. 

22:32 - Intro (Announcement) I have an accountability too. I stepped down from my podium, thank you. 

22:35 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) That was very kind of you. Thank you for all that I have an accountability too. I'm being truthful, I appreciate that, and I have a business coach too, and I have people in my village that hold me accountable because I have my days of self-doubt and self-loathing and laziness and stuff, and I have people that keep me on track. 

22:48 But I, with my mentorship program, you're basically paying for an accountability and a business coach all in one, because folks I know bosses this stuff is hard. It's challenging on a logistical, financial, emotional, spiritual, psychological level and I am here for you. But you're grownups. You need to be able to invest in yourself and be consistent, be kind to yourself when you need to be kind, be firm to yourself when you need to be firm, and I frankly, don't care if you don't like the grownup stuff. I don't care, because the voiceover industry doesn't care either. You want to do this for money. You want to make all your goofy voices in the booth and play all day. Great, you got to put in a ton of work, a ton of work, and it never gets any easier. It just turns into different kinds of hard. 

23:38 Anne has been doing this for a long time. Right, she has her own challenges, internal and external, that are just different from the ones that bosses who are earlier in their journey have. Same thing with me. But if you really want to know who you are, what your business is, what your relationship to the voiceover industry is, beyond just your talent, and how great coaches like Ann can help you realize your talent. You need to hunker down and use my damn spreadsheet and analyze your business and take a hard look, hunker down, Hunker down and use the spreadsheet. I'm wearing flannel today for you podcasters, so I'm feeling very, very very rural, use the damn spreadsheet. 

24:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh my God, I feel like hunker down and Use the damn spreadsheet. Oh my God, I feel like hug her down and use the damn spreadsheet. See, like even Tom and I have fun with character development. So I mean honestly like it just makes sense. 

24:26 And I'll be completely honest with you, we run our businesses for a purpose and we're doing this for a purpose, right? And I want to support the joy that I have in doing what I do and, yeah, there are days when, gosh, it's painful. But I also outsource some of this stuff as well to an accountant, and I've said that multiple times. I have an accountant who takes care of all my inflows and outflows and categorizations and that's a big help right then, and there she doesn't track my auditions or how I got the job, but I mean honestly, like that's just a couple of extra steps. Now there's another piece of software out there there's I think it's voice overview that does that as well. Voice overview with Danny States. Is that correct, right? 

25:07 They have kind of a CRM and people will say, well, can I do this? Can I track this with my CRM? Yeah, you probably can, right? I mean, you won't have the benefit of the mentor, a monthly kind of meeting with Tom, and even if you're using voice overview, I don't think there's like a mentorship built into that. But you know, it depends on what level you need and what level you're requiring. 

25:27 The thing that I like about your spreadsheet, tom, is that it's local, right. I'm very leery of a database that I'm necessarily putting confidential information in, like what I'm getting paid per job, unless I know that that system has like security that nobody's going to hack in and like steal my contacts. That goes for a CRM system too, right, I want to make sure that that is secured and that there's no possibility that somebody is going to go in and get financial data on me that maybe I didn't warrant anybody taking or seeing, or my client base. And so I like yours, because yours is local. You can just download it and you copy it to your computer and there it is and that's as secure as your computer is, and then you can meet with your mentor right On a monthly basis, weekly basis, however, that works and that, to me, I feel good about and I'm leery about CRM software anyway, just because a lot of CRM software doesn't do exactly what I want it to do and people are always asking me what CRM to use. 

26:26 I use multiple CRMs depending on what I need. I'm not necessarily putting in financial data. I have my trust in my accountant and I have trust in the software that handles that accounting data and that is where that data goes. Everything else is my computer and my business partner. That's it. Nothing that's sitting out there on a server. And you know I'm not trying to disparage anybody who might be subscribing to those other services, but that's just my personal feeling. I don't know, tom, how you feel about that. 

26:55 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, you got to work within your comfort level, your comfort zone. 

26:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And like. 

26:58 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Anne said you can download the spreadsheet. It's on your desktop and then you can back it up to your external hard drive and it never sees the internet and you're totally safe and you got to work within your comfort level of your CRM. 

27:18 If you feel that you just need to have another spreadsheet backed up to your hard drive that has a breakdown of all of your contacts, that's all fine too, just as long as you're able to be able to interact with it effectively, so you know when it's time to market to which potential, current or past clients and how you do it, based on this work that you've done with them or the genres that they cast. 

27:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't want bosses to misunderstand to say that I don't trust CRMs. I have CRMs and I put my data on them, but I would need to know the specifics of the CRM. You know if they're a major company, I mean if they're not securing their data. You know what I mean and the reason why I'm like this is because I used to work in technology. I used to be the person that needed to secure the data so that nobody could hack in and get it, because I worked for a school with under the age of 18 children, so I needed to make sure that that data was safe. So I'm particularly anal about it. That's where my thoughts come from, so I don't want to like disparage any product out there. Just this is the way I feel about it. 

28:09 Anyway what a wonderful way to assess how your year went, because how do you know, like, where you're going if you don't know where you've been, kind of thing. Right. It's nice to be able to assess how your year went, because how do you know where you're going if you don't know where you've been? It's nice to be able to assess how your year went so that you can really assess that, make improvements for the following year, because I know for a fact that I want to grow my business every year after year after year and, like you said, even though we've been in this business for so long, it doesn't get any easier even for us. I still have to strategize. 

28:36 How am I going to grow my business next year? How am I going to evolve and change with a shift in the industry? Or, if there's shifts in the industry, how am I changing? Am I getting different performance coaching? How am I marketing myself differently? How am I planning my business? And I can't tell those things unless I've really assessed how the year has gone. So, tom, I so appreciate and we'll be putting the link for that download on our show notes page. And, of course, tom Dheere is always available to chat with. I'm sure you've got like one of those free consults that people can sign up for if they're interested in finding out more. 

29:12 We have that also in the show notes. And with that I will say bosses, I hope you had an amazing year. I had a great year compared to like everything that's been going on this year. It's been a crazy year, but you know what? It's been a positive year and I always like a positive year in my business. So, Tom, thank you so much for all of your wisdom and, as always, for being a real boss. 

29:35 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Oh, thanks as always for having me, Anne. 

29:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, All right, Bosses. Big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses have an amazing year coming up. I hope you had an amazing year. Make sure you assess it using Tom Dheere's downloadable PDF, and we will see you next week. Awesome Bye, guys. 

29:59 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

This episode is a deep dive into character acting with the esteemed Anna Garduño, a voiceover artist and coach. The BOSSES share their invaluable insights on mastering the art of engagement in voice acting. Anne and Anna emphasize the importance of enthusiasm and authenticity, and use examples from industry legends to discuss how to breathe life into every line by using script analysis and character creation. The BOSSES also dispel the myth that success in animation voice acting is about being a celebrity, emphasizing that unique and authentic acting choices are what leads to booking success.

00:02 - Jen Keefe (Ad) Hi Anne, this is Jen Keefe from Real Women's Work Podcast. I just wanted to come on and say thank you, thank you, thank you for the series you're doing on AI and voice. I've listened to VO Boss Podcast for a few years now and it's always been informative and helpful, and not only is this series not an exception to that, but it is just the cherry on top. It has been so comforting and helpful to learn about this industry and I just thank you for taking all of the time you must have taken to research and understand, to know what questions to ask so that we're all better informed. It is just awesome, awesome, awesome. I feel excited and confident going forward into the future in the VO industry, all because of this series that you're doing. So, thank you, into the future in the VO industry, all because of this series that you're doing. 

00:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So thank you, hey, how's it going? Bosses Anne Ganguzza here. Elevate your voiceover game with our VIPeeps membership. With VIP membership, you can access our extensive library of over 350 hours of pre-recorded workshops. Whether you're interested in commercials, promos, character animation, audioos, character animation audiobooks, video games, corporate narration, audio description or dubbing, our workshops cover it all. Plus, as a VIPeeps member, you'll enjoy a 15% discount on current workshops and complimentary free monthly workshops to further develop your skills. Join VIPeeps today at vopeepscom and take your voiceover career to new heights. 

01:31 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

01:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here today with very special guest. I'm so excited, Anna Garduno. Anna, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you. 

02:04 - Anna Garduno (Guest) I was completely thrilled when you asked me because the truth is it's been a bit of a goal, a little career goal. To please get me on with the boss. 

02:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I love it, oh my gosh. Well, bosses out there. For those of you that are not familiar with Anna, Anna is a boss. I was just saying this before you came out of the womb. 

02:20 A boss, Hilarious you came out of the womb a boss, but recorded her first radio spot when you were 15 years old, shot your first TV job at 17, and currently teaches classes for VO, commercials, animation, promos, narrations and games, and has been nominated Best Voice Over Teacher two years in a row by the readers of Backstagecom. And I wore my Teach, love and Inspire shirt just for you today, Anna. I love it Again. I love the cougar aspect it's a little bit of that sexy? 

02:52 - Anna Garduno (Guest) come on, make it happen. 

02:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) fabulous, you got to add that little bit of flair to it. But, gosh, anybody that knows me knows how much I love teaching. It's so important. It is who I think. I was born to be a teacher and I love talking to other teachers, such as yourself and bosses. So the combination teacher boss love it, absolutely love it. So thanks, first of all, for being here. I know you've got a busy schedule and you know what's interesting. Another fact that you wrote in your bio is that your students have booked over a million dollars in jobs and continue to thrive, which is such a great. I love that you have a number. 

03:29 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Well, I imagine that yours have too, and absolutely because I'm sure your students every week say hey, I booked this. Hey, I booked this. 

03:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, I booked this. They do, thankfully. Yes, I'm grateful for that. And when? 

03:40 - Anna Garduno (Guest) you really think about it when you've been teaching for years, as you and I both have, because I started keeping track, really, and I was actually like, oh well, this is exciting and encouraging. I know you're such an encouraging teacher and there's so many cynics out there and I like to be encouraging. Come from joy, Come from possibility. 

03:58 I believe in that too, you know it's so important and I think when people see that they go. Oh, because once in a while I hear people say does anyone really make money in voiceover? And I try not to laugh. Yeah, there's a reason, it's a global industry. So, yes, get that negative interject out of your head Absolutely and go forward. 

04:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know what's so very interesting. Now I'm going to tell you. I was in Pilates this morning and there was a substitute that came in and she was teaching. I'm all about teaching, she was teaching, but she was teaching with a very like kind of monotone sort of and this, and then next we'll put our left toe over our right ear while simultaneously rotating our hip. The whole class, I mean, we're talking 45 minutes of no emotion, and I understand that she was trying to maybe put us in a Zen mode, right, but it was. 

04:46 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Pilates Maybe sleepy, not meditation. 

04:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And she was really good. Like technically she was really good. But she was shouting out all these instructions and I was listening so hard because her voice was so like even keel, with no like real I would call it elevating the teaching moments. So I was listening so hard, I was exhausted, mentally, okay, and physically. But at the very end, right after this, I had decided, like literally 10 minutes into it, I don't like this class, I don't like this teacher. She's not like. I don't feel an emotion, I don't feel encouragement, I don't feel anything. And when she was done she said oh my God, you guys did so good. And then I immediately loved her and I thought why. You know what I mean. So it really made me reflect on being a teacher for my students and also for the whole e-learning genre. And anybody knows I'm like a broken record, like you have to be everyone's favorite teacher. 

05:36 You do, you just do Not just if you teach, but if you're doing e-learning, and so you've got to bring that emotion and that point of view, which I consider and let's have a discussion on this I consider that to be the frosting on the cake, that's the top element when you are there as an actor, right, that is what you're bringing to the copy, no matter what genre you're in. 

05:55 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Oh, absolutely. And you bring up such an important point because this I know exactly what you mean. I've had teachers exercise teachers like that also, and I think one of the most challenging things in our industry right now, in whatever genre and I'm sure you've come across this, but correct me if I'm wrong where people say we want it natural, we want it real, yeah, yeah. And actors unfortunately misinterpret that and think, oh, passive, yes, oh, my god, that's casual, so it sounds like you have this passive teacher right now, nobody's passive in life. 

06:24 We speak for a reason. We have a lot of musicality in our voice. Even if we're calm and relaxing, there's an intention behind it, even if it's the poppy reed. 

06:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm just saying I'm just saying the poppy reed has dynamics to it. Oh my God, so much If you were to score that reed and really try to copy it. 

06:40 - Anna Garduno (Guest) She goes up, she goes down, she takes pauses. There's all of this musicality. It's not a sleep, and so you bring up a really good point. You have to be engaged with who you're talking to and then it's engaging and it brings people along. Voice work is communication, obviously, but I find too that people get so quiet Sometimes they're disconnected from their breath and not to be too focused about it. But your breath is literally like your life force. So I'm not saying yell, but be connected, and that's why my little company is called Voice Forward, like send your voice forward. You want to connect through the microphone, through whatever, to that other person. You don't want your energy to go here and hi. 

07:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm halfway to you. 

07:20 - Anna Garduno (Guest) And then you stop. You don't want that. 

07:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And it's so interesting. I think about it as an older, more mature woman, about communication, right. I mean today everybody's texting right, and it's the communication is changing. But I also feel that for us as voice actors right, our voice is so, so important, and especially in this world of technology and digital everything and synthetic voices right, technology and digital everything and synthetic voices right I think it's more important than ever that our voices really keep that engagement, keep that human aspect of emotion and point of view, because that's what makes us interesting. 

07:54 And, honestly, when I choose what I'm going to listen to on a day-to-day basis, honestly it has to be interesting to me and, I think, right for your listener. When you're being engaging and you're behind the mic reading a commercial whatever you're doing a commercial, e-learning corporate you have to connect with that listener to get their attention. Otherwise, I mean, it's always self-serving. Because why do I listen to somebody? Well, I listen to somebody because they've got something that I need right. Either they're educating me or they're entertaining me, right, and hopefully both at the same time. Those are the best teachers and that would be great. So I need to have a reason to listen. And so if you're coming at it from behind the mic where you're like, no, listen to my beautiful voice, you're not connecting. 

08:38 And I think that today more than ever, we need to connect and we need to be the actor, and I know that you put in your notes that this is something that you wanted to discuss today about. How can we, as voice actors, get there? I have my methods. I stand on my soapbox all the time and say it's so important, more important than ever, to really bring that connection. Let's talk about how you have your students. How do you elevate your students to be able to do that? 

09:03 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Okay, sure, well, I have. There's a couple of things you know. We all come to this as actors. My training, my background, everything is an actor, particularly a theater actor. 

09:11 I've been blessed to work with incredible teachers through the years, primarily with Larry Moss and Patsy Rodenberg, who's you know, the premier voice Shakespeare teacher in the world and Stella Adler, who's all about script analysis right For teaching or plays and theater and film, and that's what we do, right, we get a script and then how do we communicate best? And there's two basic things that she talks about that are very rudimentary, that I like to give my students a place to start, which is when you look at text, what is your point of view about people, places, objects and events that you're talking about? Right? So that's how you start, because so often people can do sort of like hi, I'm a generic, happy read sort of like this or I'm a very generic seductive read you know whatever it is. 

09:53 So you don't want to be generic, right? So the easiest example is something like about the people I'm talking about. Let's say you have a thing where you say and it's the best ice cream from Ben and Jerry's. So many people do. And I say, well, pretend that Jerry's your absolute best friend and he's a bit of a goofball. So from Ben and Jerry, you know what? 

10:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, you know Jerry. 

10:11 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Just that. Or say you have a thing where you say so my husband came home with a new computer. Now, if the ad is about the right computer, right, then you're going to say husband, he did a great thing. Now say but the wrong, the anti-commercial, so my husband came home with a new computer. 

10:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What is your point of view? 

10:29 - Anna Garduno (Guest) about the husband and about the new computer. I mean, it's so basic. And then also, where you are is who you are is a big way to connect to a script too. And are you a CEO talking to another CEO about finance? Or are you that reassuring financial advisor for someone who's really nervous making their first investment? 

10:48 Because you can have the exact same text but depending on who you're talking to and I'd like to think like what are you wearing? Really helps me personally. There's a million ways in, but I know if I'm playing a character on TV or something or movie that's like in a full-on business suit, I'm going to stand differently, I'm going to present differently. 

11:06 My tone of voice is going to be different, whereas if I'm playing, like you know, the hippie chick from Laurel Canyon which I mentioned, who I am, it's going to be a whole different vibe, a whole different thing. So these are two very simple things that you can look at text right away and circle oh wait, here's the event, here's the object. Or in an animation example, I have a piece of copy I like to work on where someone's putting together a potion you know like to get revenge on somebody, and one of the lines is my potion will be ready and one of the lines is one more lizard leg and my potion will be ready. And so often people will go one more lizard leg and my potion will be ready, right? So I would say, you know, the people who wrote this copy, whatever it is, are often the people hiring you, right? Which wasn't always the case so often, right? So if you can make their text pop out just a little bit, because they could have said anything, they could have said one more batling, one more toad head, they could have said anything, but they said lizard leg. 

11:57 And I always joke with my students. They got that approved. You know, disney approved lizard leg. They think they're going to get a bonus at the end of the year for coming up with lizard leg and plus, it's funny, with the two L's, you know lizard leg and the G. So instead of just saying one more lizard leg and my thing is ready, how about you take the number one and it's like you're thinking about it, right, and you go one more and you're looking at your stuff in your mind. 

12:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Lizard leg. Lizard leg. 

12:23 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Exactly so. It's specifically a lizard leg. So it's really simple and it's what we do in life when we talk about you know, I got these new glasses that I love. I got these new glasses. You know what is your point of view, and so that's the basic thing that I do with people all the time how do you feel about what you're talking about? Not moody, how do you feel, but literally. 

12:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. How do you feel it's so important? And how you feel changes and can evolve from the start of your sentence to the end of your sentence can absolutely evolve and it can evolve throughout the script. So I feel like what you're really talking about is, first of all, we need to assess the script, right. We need to assess what's the purpose. The script, right, we need to assess what's the purpose. Why are we saying these words? Right? Who are we saying them to? And again, changing who we're saying them to can make all the difference in the world. 

13:11 And what I like to also say is that, like, especially in corporate like, no, you're not talking to your best friend. I need you to be engaging, but Sally could give a crap about SAP. Sally doesn't even know what SAP does or who they are or what they make, right, right? So don't talk to Sally because it's not relevant to Sally, right? And so that whole conversational talk to your best friend. Yes, they may put that in specs, but in reality, you need to talk to the person that's going to benefit from listening to the context of the script, right? So what's the purpose? Are you trying to sell a product? Are you trying to explain how it works, you know, and who is it that needs to listen to that? 

13:47 And I had a discussion with La the other day, la Lapidez and we were talking about there's always stakes, right, there's always stakes in the script, and so you've got to know what those stakes are as an actor, right, I mean, we are actors. It is not enough to just read that. And I love how you did the melody in the head about the lizard One more lizard. And it's funny because in our head that's the melody we all hear and I swear we're all on the same wavelength, right. One more. Where does that come from? I don't know, because we read the words and we feel like, oh, initially this is where the emphasis has to go Right, but in the real world we're thinking about things. Well, every sentence is a new idea. 

14:25 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Exactly Every sentence is a new idea, and when you're reading or anything like that, and so that's another thing I say is it's a new idea and also a good example of you bring up such a good point about talking to a friend Like what does that mean? Or conversational, what does that mean? And I always say to people going back to you have different kinds of conversations. 

14:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Every day. 

14:38 - Anna Garduno (Guest) We have conversations every day Exactly, and I tell my students, like, say, you get an audition for Lexus and Subaru the same day and the specs are going to be pretty similar, conversational, real, talking to a friend blah, blah, blah. But Lexus, as we know are usually kind of seductive and a little bit like this and all that. And so I'll say to one student what do you call that? Like, I always have my students come up with titles or names for different types of reads. 

15:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, what's that? 

15:02 - Anna Garduno (Guest) read yeah, and one of my students had the best thing ever. He said I call that my I've earned it guy. Is that great? 

15:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I like it. 

15:09 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Yeah, Now the I've earned it guy is right next door to what I like to call the. I know you want it, so it's the same volume, the same note of your voice right the same sound, but there's a slightly different intention. And then the Subaru, which is getting a little more rugged now, but Subaru, as you know, they always end with that love. It's what makes a Subaru. 

15:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's the family. Family You've got like dogs and kids, exactly, you know, on a picnic Soccer equipment. 

15:37 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Yeah, sauger equipment, exactly so I always call that one like the kind of the save the planet mom, yeah, yeah. And what I tell students is those styles cross different brands. So the person who does the Subaru, the save the planet, mom is going to do Kashi, seven whole grains on a mission, and Patagonia and all that. You see they're both having conversations. So I know you know this, but I find to be able to come up with names for the different types is helpful. 

16:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, and characters You've given a character to it, which is great, rather than I want this sexy read or this seductive read. You've given it a character which I think gives it more definition. 

16:13 And I think when you're analyzing, too many of us run into our studios and like, oh, I got it and they play to that melody in their head. Right, they play the melody in the head that probably 90% of everybody that is going in their studios doing the same darn thing. And we've all talked about what do casting directors want? They want to be able to hear something different than 200 of the same kind of melodies right, and so if you're coming up with a different melody or a different story, that's immediately oh cause for, yeah, I'm shortlisting. 

16:44 I can tell you me as a casting director, every time I hear somebody that enters into a script and I can tell they've got a story, I'm like shortlist Because there's an actor, there's an actor, there's an actor. 

16:53 - Anna Garduno (Guest) And it's about having that point where you bring up a really good point, too, about how do you make your reads stand out, and At that point you bring up a really good point too, about how do you make your reads stand out. And I'm very big on playing with pace, particularly in the first sentence. 

17:02 Yeah, yeah, yeah, Almost any first sentence you can play with pace, because often a sentence as you were saying, looking at the text has two ideas in it. So like to use an animation example. I have a piece of copy I love to work with. The first sentence is hey, you know what's the best thing, about being a jellyfish, so that's it right. 

17:18 So everyone kind of usually does it that way, like enthusiastic surfer jellyfish. Now, if you just play with pace and you go, you know what's the best thing about being a jellyfish yeah, yeah, yeah, like all of a sudden he's mischievous, or the other way you do it fast. 

17:34 You know what's the best thing about being a jellyfish. So already that first sentence is engaging yes, so little things like that. No, I wanted to ask you, anne, I found and you probably come across this too a couple months ago I started working with students on animation who were getting this spec which I thought was hilarious where they would say we want it like you're in a movie, but louder. And my poor students would be like what does that mean? We want in a movie? And I like, when casting people not you, of course, but some people you know don't act, just do it like you're in a movie. 

18:06 - Jen Keefe (Ad) Okay. 

18:06 - Anna Garduno (Guest) You're. You're acting in a movie, just so you know. So I was sitting there, I go. What do they mean? And I it was what we talked about earlier it means to not be passive, you're told do less, so they've been getting reads. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're told do less. So they've been getting reads, obviously, from people being very quiet, very hello. I have a mic right here. 

18:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes hi, yes hi. 

18:22 - Anna Garduno (Guest) I'm going to read like this yeah, exactly, and it's like I'm in a movie and I don't have to do anything. 

18:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And it's so boring, or you're in a movie theater where you have to be quiet. 

18:32 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Yes, exactly. So what they mean is Point of view, don't be passive. Yeah, so they were getting all these under, these de-energized voices, and of course, it's not engaging at all. 

18:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you can be quiet and have a ton of energy. I mean, it's so much about the energy, but it really has nothing to do with volume, right? The energy of the Well, I use a term. 

18:52 - Anna Garduno (Guest) I say to people you need more vocal vitality. I don't mean louder, I mean vocal vitality, and it's exactly what we're talking about. You need to have presence in that you're engaged with whoever you're talking to on the other side of that copy, because you're never just talking to yourself, ever Exactly. 

19:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, let's talk storytelling. I mean, how important is storytelling? I mean I say it all the time, like I think exhaustively, yeah, but there's storytelling in every like, everything, everything everything right? 

19:20 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Yes, absolutely. And also, you're always in the middle of a conversation, too, even if it's e-learning. You've already been talking to somebody about something and now we just happen to pick up the conversation in the middle. 

19:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I love that. I'm always telling people you don't start a script with once upon a time because, right, like cause, that means you just, oh, I thought of it and I'm going to go into a monologue, right, Right. And that means you're not going to engage. 

19:41 If you're going to go in you're like that friend that doesn't shut up. You're like, hi, it's all about me, me, me, me, me, me, and I'm just going to talk and I'm not going to allow you to interact at all with me. And I didn't even hear what you said. 

19:55 - Anna Garduno (Guest) It was tiring for the listener. 

19:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, exactly, and so you do have to start in the middle, and that's why I'm always saying that moment before right. 

20:04 - Anna Garduno (Guest) It's so important, which is your basic acting thing. Right, like what happened before you came in the door, the scene, what happened, like how was the drive over? 

20:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, and I'm like no, no, no, no, no. I hear the events that are happening. Tell me what the other person said and then how you responded. And I don't want you to respond with the first word. I want you to respond with maybe something that's rolling into the first word of the script. 

20:30 Yeah, give yourself a lead in, because then it doesn't sound like the note like once and we all start on that same pitch. Right, I broke it down technically into musical notes, but still, you don't need to start like, hi, I'm just starting to talk. 

20:45 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Yeah, you know no, of course not, but see, the moment before is really important. I imagine you do this with your students too. One of the benefits of doing these auditions at home and working at home is you can try a lot of things, which is and you can also give yourself a lead in, sometimes so that you are literally starting in. You say absolutely. 

21:04 Don't stress about that credit card. Let me look. Let me look at the credit card. Like I have a piece of copy that starts out Wait, did you book the bartender? $200 last week. Like that's a good sentence, actually, but how much better is it if you imagine that your friend's upset crying. They're freaking out, Exactly. Listen, let me see you grab it. You go, okay, let me look at this for a minute. Wait, did you? $200? Which really means like, how drunk were you, Dear God? 

21:30 - Jen Keefe (Ad) what was that about? 

21:32 - Anna Garduno (Guest) And it's just taking that extra moment to put yourself in this situation Absolutely. And then, because you do it at home, you can do that lead in and cut it out. And that's one of the benefits, I think, of doing these auditions at home Because, as you know, in the in-person auditions which are starting up again thank God a little bit you usually get one shot and you can't do that lead in ahead of time. 

21:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, exactly so. We've talked about the moment before, which, again, I think is so important. We've talked about storytelling. What other things would you say are important for a voice actor to know today in order to get noticed and stand out? 

22:06 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Okay, well, this is such a basic thing. It's going to sound so silly, but it's very important to do some homework. We'll just talk right now about two areas, about commercial and animation, but this is true for everything. Actually, listen to what is actually on the air to hear what the styles are, what the tones are and everything. I have students and I'm sure you do too Some, you know, women students who've gone off and raised children and they're coming back 20 years later, right, and everything is like it's in the eighties or the nineties. It's so amped up. I'm like, okay, have you actually heard a commercial? And I'm shocked at how people say, well, no, I stream. 

22:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't watch TV. Yeah, I don't watch TV. What? 

22:46 - Anna Garduno (Guest) What does it matter with you? And what's so nice is you can that's research, yes, and also watch some different animation too, because, as we know, that natural voice, right, which is sort of the BoJack Horseman model, and then there's, you know, slightly more character-y things like in Spongebob, and then there's super cartoony, right. I am shocked at how many people do not actually pay attention to cartoons and they'll say, well, there's so many. How do I start? I go okay, watch movie trailers. 

23:12 Watch the movie trailer, for inside out it's three minutes. There's five women and five men. Watch that and take notes. Don't just watch it passively. Write down what are the archetypes, what are the things, and then you put a check mark. So I'm very surprised at how people don't do their research. And I also tell my students it doesn't take long. If you spend half an hour a week listening to commercials in a very specific way and half an hour a week to different animation, listen to 10 minutes of three different shows and take notes on them, you do that for a month solid. Oh my God. 

23:43 You have such a better foundation than everybody else. Oh my gosh, it's a very basic thing It'd be hard to audition for a play if you'd never seen a play Right. It would be hard to audition for an hour-long TV show if you hadn't watched hour-long TV in 20 years. You had no idea what those shows are like, because they're different than what they used to be. 

24:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And before you run into audition for no Matter what, can you take five to ten minutes to just look up the brand yes and look and see what's their website look? Like what is the product that you're talking about actually do. Do you know the product? Are you familiar with it? What is their demographic? Who are they trying to sell to? I mean, there's so much backstory. 

24:22 Again, it's almost like you're doing character study right, but you're doing it about the brand because the brand is looking for a voice. Even if there are casting specs, right, you can always go to a brand and find out, like, who are they selling to and how are they trying to do that by just literally a Google search. Absolutely, and I don't see why people don't take the time to do that. I mean it could take literally five to ten minutes before you rush in and everybody's like I've got to get the audition in. I've got to get the audition in, but do the homework first. Spend five or ten minutes. I don't think that you're going to miss the timing. I mean, I know people are like I've got to get it in first. 

24:52 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Also, it's going to be much more efficient. Right, you take five, ten minutes, so like, oh, what is this new? Obviously, I don't know anything about tech stuff. So what is this new tech thing about? I need to find out what it is, and then you can do almost anything in three to four. Takes Almost you know after that. 

25:06 So it's not going to take you that long. But I think one of the things I recommend my students do is so that you're not always in a rush right, trying to do the audition and get all this stuff in is set aside a specific time, wednesday morning from 10 to 1030. I'm going to look at ispottv and I'm going to watch 10 car ads in a row and I'm going to write down the differences between them. So if you just set a specific time, then it's part of your ongoing kind of homework and then when you get that audition for Lexus or Jeep you've already seen it and you know what it is. 

25:40 And you're like oh, or you can say oh, this is like the absolute vodka ad I just watched. Okay, and that's what that is. So you're not playing catch up. Yeah, and it's the only area of acting I've ever come across and where you can get better at it really fast, because if you have a good ear, you can hear, like students where I've done this myself right, I think I'm sounding very sexy, yeah yeah, and I just sound sad, sad and depressed. 

26:07 I'm like, okay, that's bad. Or I'm trying to be enthusiastic and I sound crazy, like I've had 15 cups of coffee, so you can hear it and you can adjust it immediately and that's so satisfying. I mean, I love to do dialects, as I know you do, and you know dialects takes years to really be super great at them. And this is another area about the voiceover world is you can move forward very quickly if you are just consistent, consistent with your study consistent with your class? 

26:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, absolutely. 

26:42 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Consistent instead of stopping and starting all the time. 

26:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. I love that and I try to tell my students you know, look, it's better for you to do one or two scripts a day because I give homework right. And I say it's better for you to do one or two scripts a day because I give homework right. Yeah, and I say it's better for you to do one or two scripts a day, then wait until the night before and then do all the scripts at the same time, because then you're in the same performance mode, right. 

26:58 - Jen Keefe (Ad) You're just like, oh God, I've got to get my homework done. 

27:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I've got to get my homework done and so I'm going to listen to you. And so one of the reasons why I give homework is to hear, for me I'm vocally branding my students as well, so that we're prepping for the demo. Right, I want to hear them talking about Toyota or I want to hear them talking about Subaru or some other brand and I want to say, okay, I hear that, you know, and for me it's just a creative thing where I'm like, yes, I can hear that she sounds great with that brand, and so now we're going to focus on a spot on our demo for that brand. And so I give lots of homework because, number one, you should be able to practice what we're doing in between our sessions. Otherwise, like you want me to just live direct you once a week, that just, I mean, I don't feel that you're going to progress quickly. 

27:45 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Well, what you're talking about, anne, is giving them the structure and the tools to become their own best director. Exactly that's what you're talking about, and that is a gift to give to students. 

27:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thank you for calling homework being a gift. I love that. Oh, it is a gift. Yeah, I love that, and also I always say to people it's optional okay. I don't want to stress you out, yeah me too. 

28:03 - Anna Garduno (Guest) I don't want to stress you out, but you're giving them. It was a new student, they go. Well, I just need to be. You know, if I have a director or a cast member, they tell me what to do. And I said to them okay, well, what might they say? And she said, well, they would tell me to be more conversational. I said, okay, and then what would you do? Blank face, yeah, and everyone's different. Like for me to be more conversational. In general, I have to slow down and I have to bring my voice down just a little bit. 

28:31 Other people have to go faster. 

28:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Typically people pitch up when they're reading. That's just a, I think, human nature kind of thing, but you're right. And then sometimes they just go fast through everything or they go too slow through everything and then they sound too consistent. Consistency is like. I think I can't be stagnant in my business. That's the death of my business, and I think consistency might be the death of a voice actor. Because you can't be consistent in any sound right, because then it sounds robotic, it sounds with no point of view, there's no right, it's rhythm, and point of view is everything. 

29:05 - Anna Garduno (Guest) I think Point of view drives the rhythm and sometimes the rhythm is like there's one style that sort of is kind of the opposite of all we're talking about a little bit is I call it a cello read Is that Eternity by Calvin Klein? 

29:16 - Jen Keefe (Ad) Right when they just say do less, do less, do less. 

29:18 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Right, hi, yes Hi, I'm not going up or down, but that's its own rhythm. 

29:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So that's why I call it a cello. 

29:24 - Anna Garduno (Guest) So if somebody plays one note on a cell, that's what it is. Yeah, it's like that. So even that is a very specific point of view. 

29:32 - Jen Keefe (Ad) Yeah, absolutely. 

29:35 - Anna Garduno (Guest) And it makes it dynamic because you're right, if you're just consistent all the way through the same way, it's so boring, yeah, you just stop. It loses any kind of dynamic. 

29:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It loses point of view too Correct, it really does. 

29:44 - Jen Keefe (Ad) Oh, absolutely yeah. 

29:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's interesting how musical it can be and then yet I don't want my students to approach it necessarily musically. I want them to approach it like an actor, because if you can do that, then ultimately things just fall into place. When you're responding to something, you're acting is reacting. When you're reacting right and you're reacting with the lines in the script, it falls together naturally. It really does. 

30:08 And so the rhythm and the melody just fall together, and the emphasis on the words. It just falls together Like it's an easy thing for me to say. However, somehow, when people get words in front of their face, yes, because I was taught to read aloud, you know, in grade school, and I was like yes, me, I love to read, I'm a good reader, and let me hello, I'm going to read my text now, and so you have no time to put a point of view on when you're just reading from left to right, you don't know what the story is. There's no history there, there's no. Who are you talking to? Well, I'm just reading to the air, right? 

30:40 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Well, I think you bring up also a really good point too. The approach isn't after the voice will follow the musicality, all that will follow. And something that's a particular challenge is since when we're reading or working, a lot of times we have headphones, so we're hearing ourselves while we're talking and there's a big temptation to be the director, the producer, all at once while you're literally saying your words absolutely you have to not do that. 

31:02 So I'm a big advocate just put one headphone on, because you don't ever hear what you actually sound like through your head or your headphones. It's close because you're listening through the speaker of your head, right? So that's that's. The other thing, too, is I tell students don't judge your read like. Listen to it back first before you start making adjustments, or you stop in the middle or you change it or something. 

31:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that's good, I like that. Wait until you're done. I have the advice, which is interesting I get the one ear on, one ear off. For some people yeah, for some people, because for me, when I was initially starting, I had a lot of like noises coming out and I was evaluating my booth and so I couldn't tell if there was noise and also being directed right. So when you're directed, you kind of have to have your headphones on. 

31:42 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Oh no, absolutely Right, You've got to be able to hear the direction. 

31:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I always say your headphones are amplifying your sound, yes, and so if you get used to not listening to your sound and you're into the storytelling, it won't matter if you have headphones on or not. But that's a hard thing for people to do sometimes, because I know when I first started hi, oh, I love this. It's amplifying my voice, you know that kind of thing and it just gets to be a little egocentrical there for a minute. But I don't think any voice acting really should be egocentrical at all. It's something you are gifting right to the person who is listening to you and that is a gift you give to them. It's not about you listening to yourself. 

32:20 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Well, even though you're just doing one side of the conversation. You're in fact interacting. Yeah, you are always interacting, and that's when they say talking to a friend. That's what they're trying to say is you're talking about this paper towel is going to soak up that spilled wine. Because you just came to your friend and said, oh my God, I spilled red wine all over my couch, I don't know what to do. You say, oh well, actually this thing is going to help you. You're interacting. Right, it's not about you at all. And it is a challenge sometimes not to fall either, to fall in love with your own voice or to decide. 

32:49 You hate everything about it which is also not helpful. 

32:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's so true. So you have to not judge. 

32:54 - Anna Garduno (Guest) You have to wait and listen back and then see do I sound like I'm engaging with someone? Because you're always talking, like you say, for a reason. You know, even in animation stuff. You know I was talking to someone the other day about BoJack Horseman because that's such a common spec. 

33:10 You know they say we want to like bojack horsemen, not rugrats and things like that. And I had somebody once I think was at sad foundation, wasn't a regular student said, and they said, well, you know, will arnett, they just hired him because you know he's just will arnett all the time. And you know what I said. I said, okay, I see why you're saying that, but my guess is a lot of people would like to play bojack. I bet chris rock would have loved it, paul rudd would have loved it. 

33:28 Paul Rudd would have loved it. Owen Wilson would have loved it. There's a lot of comedic Seth Rogen, there's a lot of guys, and Willa and I get it, not because of the sound of his voice, but because he created a character that was engaging. So don't self-sabotage by saying, oh, it's a star. That's all they do. Don't diminish their work and don't diminish your possibility to do work as good, absolutely. 

33:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I think that that's really interesting. Oh, I love that. I love that. Gosh, Anna, I could talk all day to you. 

33:58 - Jen Keefe (Ad) Well, that's why we're going to get together and have cocktails and dinner. 

34:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There we go Well, there we go Well. I have to say thank you. So so much. Thank you so much and I know that it's been a pleasure having you on. Now you've got a special offer for boss listeners. I do Special offer. 

34:12 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Talk to us about that a little bit so for boss listeners. You get 10% off any classes, 10% off any private coaching or things like that, and also 10% off any demos you may want to work on or refresh or anything like that. Just say that you're a fan of the boss lady. The queen herself Love it and I'm very happy to do that. And you can reach me through. 

34:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) My direct email is AnnaVoiceForward at gmailcom, and just say hey, heard you on the boss, and we'll put that link in the show notes as well to get to your website. And so thank you so much, anna, for being with us today, and I look forward to working with you more in the future. For sure I want to have you as a VO Peeps guest director too, so coming up, so I'll be sending you that schedule. Yay, I would love that. So perfect. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, and so a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. See you next week, bye, thank you. 

35:20 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOBosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPD TL. 

In our next episode. of the BOSS Money Talks series, the BOSSES talk about how to set and achieve financial goals like a pro by transforming daunting yearly objectives into achievable, bite-sized milestones. Anne and Danielle guide you through the process of reverse engineering your target income, allowing you to create efficient tracking systems for auditions, marketing, and follow-ups. This ultimately can help you to manage the unpredictable nature of freelance work with confidence. The BOSSES share personal stories and insights on analyzing past successes, pinpointing what truly works, and making informed adjustments to your approach, fostering a mindset of steady, systematic growth. 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hello amazing bosses and voiceover talents out there. Hey, amazing voiceover talents. Do you ever wish boss marketing was as fun as it was being behind the mic? Well, check out my Vio Boss Blast. It's designed to automate and make your marketing simpler. You'll benefit from your very own target marketed list, tailored to meet your goals and your brand the VO Boss Blast. Find out more at voboss com. 

00:32 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, nne Ganguza. 

00:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Money Talk Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so excited to bring back to the show Danielle Famble. Danielle, yay, hey, thanks for having me back. How are you? I'm so excited to talk money with you this morning. 

01:09 - Danielle Famble (Host) I'm good. I'm always up for a money conversation, so very happy to be here Cool. 

01:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you know why? Because I actually just started taking and you know I've taken these courses before. But you know I always love to take goal setting classes because even though you kind of know, like I've set goals before, I do it every year, I do it periodically. I think that it's important to just kind of get your motivation and inspiration going and I thought it would be a great time to talk about setting financial goals and how we can successfully reach them as entrepreneurs. 

01:41 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, I think that's really important because in business you always talk about goals like business goals, or the point of a business is to make a profit, and so financial goals are kind of tied into that. So it is good to be intentional about your goals, even if you don't hit that goal. Absolutely being able to track where your progress is is really important, so I love that you're doing that. It's something I try to do every year. I think it usually happens for most people around like the end of the year sort of a New Year's resolution, but doing it in the middle of the year is really pretty great. I love that. 

02:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I think one thing that I'm learning that is important is to set realistic goals. I mean, it's all well and good to want a million dollars, but I want to be able to set a realistic financial goal for myself and I think how important is that actual number, like I know you just said, if you don't make it? But what if we create a more realistic goal? And then, I don't know, maybe reverse engineer, is that a thing? 

02:39 - Danielle Famble (Host) Is that something that you do? Yeah, totally. I read this book, the 12 Week Year, a couple of months ago. It's a really good book and it really is about like breaking your year down into almost like quarters, really breaking them down into 12-week years themselves so that the goal doesn't take the length of time like a full year for example. 

02:58 And then you're able to break it down further from those 12 weeks to individual weeks. So that is sort of reverse engineering your goals. So, for example, if your goal was to make, let's say, $10,000 in the 12 week time, then you can go and say, okay, well, what do I need to do incrementally to get myself there? Is it going to be marketing more? Is it going to be increasing the number of auditions that you do? Is it going to be figuring out which genre that you want to go into, because maybe a certain genre may get you to that 10,000 quicker? I think actually, reverse engineering your goal makes it so that the goal itself is not so big and all you're working toward they're little sprints. So you're working toward the next milestone in that bigger goal sphere. 

03:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I think there's something to be said for breaking it down into smaller parts, because I think number one of the fact that our business is so volatile, right, we don't know where our next job is coming from. And that is a completely different mindset and pathway to making money than maybe some people are used to if they come out of the corporate world. Right, because there's a set amount of money we're getting paid every so often. Now, all of a sudden, we've got to be everybody and everything and we have to go out, generate the leads, follow up on those leads, get the job, do the job and then charge the money and then collect the money. So there's all these steps and we don't necessarily know where the second job is coming or the next job is coming. 

04:26 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah. 

04:27 And I think also, you can think about creating systems, right. So a lot of the things that you just said are repeatable processes. So if you can create a system where it's I'm going to audition for X number of jobs, that's not guaranteeing that you will book all of those jobs, but it's sort of a numbers game, right? Sometimes, especially with commercials, for example, it's sort of a numbers game. So if you can increase the inputs, then the output may be more bookings. Perhaps. Same thing with like leads If you are sending out maybe a few more emails or phone calls, then that potentially could mean that you're going to possibly book more jobs. 

05:07 So how can you create systems or templates for each individual section of that process that you're reverse engineering for your goal? So then you don't have to get stuck in the weeds when it's time to go to the next step. And the next step Did I follow up this person? Did I do this? Did I send out this contract? Did I sign this thing? Making sure that you have a template or a system for it really can help. 

05:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that and I think that it's important to make sure that you're dedicating the time for those steps to happen, because it's all well and good when you're like I've got the job right and the money's coming in and that's something I can account for. But yet now there's all these unknowns in the equation, and especially when we're talking numbers like I like numbers to be concrete right, I like to say I've got this coming in, you know, I've got this going out. But then there's that uncertainty of like okay, I don't have that job yet, so I need to put that system in place in order to try to make the goal that I want to achieve. And again, I think it's important for bosses out there to again set realistic goals. But again, there's nothing wrong with saying, hey, I'm currently making X amount of dollars per month, or I like to look at it on a monthly basis as opposed to, I mean, yearly too. 

06:19 I'm like, yes, it's great to have a six-figure, seven-figure, whatever income you're looking for, but then break that down into months and then those months back into weeks, because one week maybe I won't make any money, right? And I have to make sure that that doesn't necessarily stop me from trying to reach my goal or create a mental point where I'm just like, oh well, I can't do this right. I think goal setting a lot of what I'm learning, as well well as writing it down, putting it concrete on the paper here's what I want. And then you're talking about setting up the template and the steps to get there, going back and reviewing those steps and making sure that if you didn't achieve a step, that's okay, because maybe next week you can achieve that step even more so, so that you're not getting upset or depressed and then just giving up on that goal. 

07:04 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, I also really love what you said about like dedicating the time to it. One of the things that I implemented in my own life, in my own business, about a year or two ago and, admittedly, I've sort of slipped in it it's something this conversation is reminding me to go back and do is implementing office hours or implementing the time dedicated to make the system run. 

07:25 So if it's implementing an hour every single day, or Monday, wednesday, friday, for example, to make sure that you've got your auditions, or to follow up with clients that have not paid, or to do whatever it is in your system that needs to be done. Really setting the time aside to actually do it will ensure that your system does actually work, because it If you kind of sometimes arbitrarily go through the process of trying to hit your financial goals then you may not actually be consistent in hitting those goals. 

07:55 Another thing that, when you were talking about it, I was thinking about is, yes, thinking about things in a monthly 30-day window. I think that's great because it's that short sprint like we were talking about earlier. 

08:06 One thing is, maybe consider a percentage Like maybe I want to increase my revenue by 1% or 2%, so you can actually check and see did I do that? Is there a way to say I did hit this goal or I didn't hit this goal? Because a lot of times with goals they can be vague, it feels good but you can't really check and see did I actually hit it or not? 

08:27 That's the thing about numbers. Is it this number or no? You know if you hit it or not. That's the thing about numbers, is it this number or no. 

08:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know if you hit it or you didn't. Right, right, it's very black and white. You're right, I love that checking and being accountable and that also has an effect again, and it's so funny because there's hardcore numbers, right, there's here's what I made last month, here's what I made the month before, and what did it take to get to those numbers? Going back and being accountable and seeing, was there a system that worked? And again, if something's not working or you're having a slow month, again I want to reiterate that manifestation of abundance and faith, right, faith that you can achieve the goal right. And so if you can kind of manifest and see that, have that vision, see it's written down and then see the systems that were put in place that help to make that work, when you maybe have a week where nothing happened or a couple of weeks and you start to doubt yourself, go back and take a look at those accomplishments. 

09:21 Go look at what you've achieved and the systems you use to achieve them and see if maybe you didn't implement that in quite the same way or maybe there's a way to take what you did that was successful and increase it. Maybe I would say, reach out to that repeat client, right? Or go ahead and maybe increase if you did a hundred auditions and you're not really seeing anything, well, maybe. What type of auditions did you do? Were they all commercial auditions, were they corporate auditions, were they e-learning auditions and find out which one's booked. And then maybe, if you're like I seem to be booking a lot of e-learning lately, then maybe increase your percentage of e-learning auditions. 

10:01 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, and the only way to know everything, what you just said is to make sure that you're tracking. 

10:06 If you're not tracking that information, the dollars are in the data and if you are not tracking your data, you may not be able to track your dollars as specifically, to be able to get to the next step, that next 1%, because if you increase your revenue by 1% every month over the course of the year, it's exponential growth of your business. And then you can go back and look and say, okay, look at what I did, how can I repeat those steps to get even greater returns the next year? Or to do that in a different genre that maybe you don't work in, because you know that what you did works. How can you take what you know and move it to a different genre? 

10:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. You said if you increase your revenue 1%, right every month, which gives you 12% over a course of a year. And I just want to bring that back to bosses by saying most jobs don't give a 12% increase like at all anymore. As a matter of my husband just got like an 8%, which was incredible. I mean that took years and I remember back in the day when I was working in education I got a 3% every year and that was great. So, 1%, bosses don't think, oh, that's nothing. And I can tell Danielle that you are a money girl because you know, oh, just 1% and that's realistic, right. And so that's something like oh, I want to increase my revenue 100% or 50% or even 20% is I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying that you want to take a look at how can I like literally systematically increase that income by 1%, 2%, and that's incredible. 

11:36 - Danielle Famble (Host) And then, year after year after year, the compounding of that incremental increase is really where, like, it'll make your eyes pop because it is amazing and it can be life changing. 

11:47 - Intro (Announcement) Oh yeah. And so when you say like reverse engineering your goal. 

11:51 - Danielle Famble (Host) That's really where it is. It's not in these big leaps and bounds. It's how can you grow? Just a little bit more, and a little bit more, and a little bit more. And then when you look back over time because this takes time when you look back over time you can say, oh, wow, like look what this did, look what I grew, look what we've made. It's really amazing. It's like any financial investment. It's really amazing. 

12:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's like any financial investment. It's funny because you know, back in the day when I did work for a company, I remember I invested some spare change that I had like $500 in a stock in the company that I worked for, and then I just didn't look at it. 

12:24 I just let it sit there for about 20 years. And I'll tell you what over time, when you look at a stock, if it's a decent stock and it's not like a company that's in and out and out of business, a company that's been around for a long time, I mean that grew over time even though, like, one month it went way down, another month it went way up, and then it was like, and if you looked at those numbers and you got crazy about it, it would make you insane, and so I just left it alone. I said you know what that was? Money, that it's kind of like. 

12:47 I feel like if I go to Vegas and I'm going to spend money on gambling which I'm not a big gambler, but I always say, well, that's my spare change, right, and then I just don't worry about it. When it's done, it's done. So I invested that money and then I didn't look at it until 20 years later, when I went to buy a house, and then all of a sudden I cashed in on it and well, over the years and of course I didn't like completely ignored it I did look at it like on a yearly basis, but it wasn't like every day. I was not looking at it and freaking out if I wasn't getting a return on my investment. And so I think maybe if you kind of look at your business like that right, step back from it and look a little more long term and you can't do that unless you've been tracking it right and see how you grow, like that tiny little growth spurt over time makes a humongous difference. 

13:38 - Danielle Famble (Host) Absolutely. 

13:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So then let me ask you how, like in terms of I know we talked about this a little bit in other podcast episodes so in terms of tracking this right, what's the best resource for tracking this? I mean, I know we talked about, like I use QuickBooks so I can do a profit and loss statement. I can generate any length of time. I could say give me a monthly profit and loss statement. What other things would you suggest to track? Because that's just the financial part of it. How are we tracking like marketing, how are we tracking those types of things? 

14:09 - Danielle Famble (Host) I think that can be done in several different ways. When I first started my business, I was tracking everything in an Excel spreadsheet down to every job that I booked, the details about that job, how much I was paid, how much do I need to set aside for taxes, and keeping that set aside separated by month. That's one way to do it Currently. Now I have a Notion database where I actually will put in every single audition that I did and it turns into a pipeline. So it's. Did the audition turn into a booking? Did I get an avail check for that even though I didn't book it? I want to know the details about that. What were the specs in that audition? So it's like a whole sales funnel. 

14:46 - Intro (Announcement) It's an entire sales funnel, I love that An entire sales funnel. 

14:49 - Danielle Famble (Host) That's what I'm doing, that's amazing. 

14:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm again sort of a nerd. Yeah, no, no, no, I'm right there with you. 

14:54 - Danielle Famble (Host) That's wonderful, but I want to know everything about the jobs that are coming my way and then the jobs that turn into actual bookings, because there's information in that data for me and it's important for me to take a look and see. I even want to see maybe I auditioned for something a year ago and the rate was X. 

15:13 - Intro (Announcement) What is it today? 

15:14 - Danielle Famble (Host) I want to know what is the market overall doing? So there are ways to look at it, like that, crms that you can take a look at and put your data in. 

15:23 However you do it, do it and that's where your data is and then have a way to go back and take a look at and put your data in. However you do, it, do it and that's where your data is and then have a way to go back and take a look and take the time to go back and look at the data and see comprehensively, maybe by quarter how did I do? At the end of the year how was this year and what did we learn and what can we do a little differently? I love that. 

15:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I think tracking your goals not just here's what I want to make right but tracking your business and tracking the progress of your business will really help you to get a great view of your business over time, and so it will help you to make more educated decisions as well. Right? So not only are we setting financial goals and we're manifesting right, and we're having faith in the fact that we can achieve these goals right, and we're creating small little pieces, small little segments of those goals that are achievable right, and then we can look back on our success and be encouraged and gain confidence from that success. And again, when you do that, that can just exponentially grow your business and grow your success. And to me, you've got to take the time to track that. So how much time. For me sometimes it's like, oh God, I've been auditioning all day, I've been coaching all day, I've been doing this. I don't have time to track this. What is your method of tracking? Do you track on a day-to-day basis or weekly? Or what do you do? 

16:40 - Danielle Famble (Host) I track, like I said, with the inputs in my sales funnel or my system. I do that every single day, really like inputting it as it's happening and how much time does that take? 

16:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Do you know what I mean? Are you spending like 10 minutes, half an hour, an hour? 

16:54 - Danielle Famble (Host) Every input is maybe a minute or two, so it adds up to a few minutes a day, maybe an hour a day. 

17:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow, think of that boss. It's just not even an hour a day right, yeah, not even I day. 

17:05 Wow, think of that boss. It's just not even an hour a day, right? Yeah, not even. I say that for my students too, who want to pursue this as a career is that you need to spend, you need to dedicate a certain amount of time per day on your business, and that tells your brain, it tells your body, it tells your being that you are serious about this business and you are manifesting along the way as you do that. And plus, I think it's a critical part of again that tracking system that helps us to understand where are we, where do we want to go and how are we going to achieve that? Absolutely, yeah, fantastic, wow, I love that. 

17:33 So what sort of goals would you say for, let's say, a beginning talent? What sort of financial goals should they have? Because I know there's a lot of people that are like quick, they're like I want to make the money now, right, and I know, as a coach, sometimes that is something that just doesn't happen right away. I mean, they're not making thousands upon thousands of dollars right away, and I think that's where most people get the most discouraged right in the beginning of their career. So, in terms of financial goals, what would you say are realistic financial goals for new talent that are starting out. 

18:06 - Danielle Famble (Host) I think the first thing that a new talent should take a look at is where are they currently at, to look realistically and then I think really like the percentage that maybe 1% or 2% maybe not per month but per quarter might be a really great target to hit. So where are you at currently and how can you do just a little bit better per quarter to get you to that 4% per year? And I would also take a look and see things outside of the returns. But what are you doing today? Is it that you need to coach with someone else? Do you need to invest in yourself and your business? Do you need to learn how to use your DAW a little bit better for editing your auditions? Those kinds of things can really help with your bottom line because once you have a little bit more skills in your business, then you're able to use those skills to generate income. But I think, looking at it from where you're currently at, then looking at maybe a one or 2% increase from where you currently are, is incredibly realistic. Yeah. 

19:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and I think also, when you're starting out, you have to be realistic in terms of, like, financial success, what you consider to be financial success and what you're considering to be investment in growing the business, because there are lots of businesses that need to take that time to grow. They need to invest in their product, they need to invest in their marketing, they need to invest in their storefront, right, which? These are all things like what is your product? It's your voice, right? Well, that's your coaching. It's your demos. What is your storefront? That is your website, what is your marketing? All of these things. Have you taken a marketing course? Do you have a mail service? That kind of a thing. 

19:49 So, what are you investing? And a lot of it might take more investing than you're getting back in the beginning, and longer time it takes, longer it does, it does. And so I feel as though your financial goals at this point need to be realistic thinking. I have some people saying, well, I want to make $5,000 a month and they're just getting out in voiceover, and I'm not saying that you can't do that, but I'm just saying that until you really start to grow and make those investments. 

20:08 I think marketing is a big, big part of that, because you can be a new talent and you can be amazing, but if nobody knows that you exist, right, they can't pay you and so you can't meet those financial goals. And so you've got to really get out there in front of people, and that requires your marketing efforts either direct mails, creating content out there. The quality of your auditions is marketing Exactly, exactly the quality of your studio out there. So there's a lot of things that will go into this in order to help meet your financial goals. And the better you are, the more skilled you are right, the better your product is right, the better you're able to market that product. Then I think the more skilled you are right. The better your product is right, the better you're able to market that product, then I think, the more able you're going to be to meet those financial goals in the end. 

20:51 Yeah, absolutely so, for, let's say, talent that have been out there for a while. Is it realistic, do you think, for them to think, oh okay, well, I made six figures last year, I'm going to make six figures this year, year, I'm going to make six figures this year, or I want to increase that by 12% this year. How realistic do you feel that is? 

21:08 - Danielle Famble (Host) Oh yeah, I think that's incredibly realistic. I think that really taking a look at where you currently are, or what happened last year versus what you're attempting to do this year, I think that's incredibly realistic and you can go back and you can look at your systems and say, all right, this is what I did. What of it worked? You can look at your systems and say, all right, this is what I did. What have it worked? What things do I need to improve? What maybe should I invest in my business to help get me to that 12% or more return? I think that's incredibly realistic. Also, it does mean that you need to look at the genres that you're working in, yeah, and the market the market that you're working in as well. 

21:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, so important. Yeah, don't leave out the fact that you could be. You know, I want to do animation or I want to do character work, whatever that is Right, and you can be an amazing character animation, you know, have a great demo, have a great product out there. However, you've got to figure out where's the market, right? Where's the market at this time? Are there trends in that market? Am I able to reach that market and how am I able to get in front of the eyeballs that can hire for that market and what are they willing to pay Like? That's the part where I think most people they forget. Oh, so now there's a money, right, there's a value put on that on the market. Not that you're not worth a million dollars. 

22:23 However, there's a term for it, danielle, and I don't know if I know what it is, but there is a rate out there that is the going rate, right, it's a competitive rate for people that want voices for animation or people that need a commercial voice. There are rates all over the place. Of course, we always say go to the GVAA rate guide, right. But I mean, sometimes the market can't pay that rate, right. That particular client just can't pay it. They don't have the budget for it, and sometimes that's the truth, right? A lot of times we want to say, oh no, I can't do that job. I know what I'm worth and I can't do it for that rate and that's OK, that's your business decision. 

22:58 But don't dismiss that sometimes clients literally don't have it in their budget to pay that value, and then that's a decision that you make, right? Whether you want to accept that, to do that maybe below your rate or not. And I'm not saying you should do that for everything. But there is a value. There is a value that the companies put on it and they will have budgets. I mean, people have budgets for a reason. So you have to be considerate of the company and not just be angry at the company if they can't meet your budget. 

23:28 You know, I think a lot of times we tend to so quickly dismiss and say, well, they're not paying me what I'm worth, and so therefore and yeah, I say, if that's your decision, that gives you time to go find somebody who will pay you what you're worth. But sometimes understand that it is possible that the company doesn't have the budget at this moment Doesn't mean that they won't have the budget in the future, or that you can't work on that in the future. So yeah, just a thought Wow, good stuff, danielle, wow. 

23:54 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, that's a really good discussion. I think that talking about goals is incredibly important, not just about the financial goals, but the inputs to your goals as well, because that can just be general business goals, life goals. Once you learn how to do this in one aspect of your life, you can really move it to other aspects of your life. Oh yeah absolutely, absolutely. 

24:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right. Bosses Love this conversation. Danielle Can't wait for our next one. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network and make money like bosses like Danielle and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and go out there and let's set some financial goals and meet them. We will see you guys next week. Bye, bye. 

24:38 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere reflect on their time at the Mid-Atlantic Voice Over Conference (MAVO) and show listeners how to align your conference choices with professional objectives and comfort zones. The BOSSES talk about embracing the vibrant energy of smaller conferences, where meaningful connections and enriching learning experiences await. Anne and Tom share personal stories that capture the joy of stepping out of the studio and into creative spaces filled with camaraderie and collaboration. Whether you're new to the scene or a seasoned pro, this episode is filled with invaluable strategies to enhance your career and make every conference moment count. 00:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, real Boss, Tom Dheere and myself have a very special deal for you guys. Tom, tell them what it is. 

00:08 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) All right, anne. If you use the promo code BOSSVOSS that's B-O-S-S as in V-O-BOSS and V-O-S as in V-O-STRATEGIST, and the number 24, so that's BOSSVOS24, you get 10% off my 30-minute check-in, my one-hour strategy session and my one-hour diagnostic. 

00:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you'll get 10% off all coaching packages and demos on the Anne Ganguzza website. So, guys, black Friday starts now and runs till the end of the year. So everybody, get yourselves on that site and get yourself a discount. BOSS, VOS, BOSS, VOS 24. 

00:43 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) BOSS, VOS 24. BOSS. VOS, BOSS, VOS, 24. BOSS, VOS, 24.

00:47 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

01:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Boss Series with the one and only Tom Dheere. Tom Dheere, yay, hi, anne, tom, I get to see you like. I just saw you at MAVO, which was so wonderful. We have to just meet each other at conferences, I feel like there needs to be a change to that. 

01:27 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) You live in LA, I live in New York City, so you know we have some logistical challenges. 

01:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know, but I feel like we should be seeing each other more, because what a great time. 

01:36 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well then, they need to produce more conferences so we can hang out more, right. 

01:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I don't know. Well, I don't know. There might be some people that disagree with that, I'm not sure. Some people are saying that there's more conferences than are needed in this industry. But you know, I like people to have a choice. 

01:51 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, and different conferences meet different needs. Some of them are different sizes, like Mavo is very boutique, like under 100 people, as opposed to VO Atlanta, which is wonderful in its own way, but that has 1,000 people and that can freak out a lot of people. And then one voice is like somewhere in the middle with attendance and there's different focuses. Some have a bilingual track or a Spanish track, some have an audio book track and some have a children's track, like Mavo did. So you just got to find one that's right for you, based on your budget, your professional needs and just your social comfort level. 

02:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure, let's do a recap about Mavo, then, because it was my first year at Mavo, oh, and I truly, truly enjoyed it. It was, it was my first year speaking at Mavo and I loved it. It was small, it was intimate, and she had a boatload of great speakers there, and I really felt as though she worked her tail off to make it a nice experience for everyone. 

02:50 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I agree, this was my fourth 2018, 2020, 22, which was virtual, and then 2024 now. So, like most conference presenters, they like to have people come every other year so they can mix up the speakers and the content, and I always have a lovely time there. Val Kelly, who's the producer of the Mid-Atlantic Voice Over Conference MAVO for short always does a lovely job and, like you said, she puts together a fantastic group of speakers. Like, considering the size of the conference, it's like, quality-wise, a disproportionate quality. Like the quality of speakers, considering the size of the conference, it's just such really high-end. 

03:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh my gosh, Really high-end people. It was incredible high-end speakers, especially because you and I were there. Well, no, I'm sorry, I love it. I think her theme in the beginning was more character-based animation, because that's what she did, and she mentioned to me this is the first time she was going to have somebody coming in that was really talking about things other than character animation, and, of course, I did a general session on corporate, and then I did two mastery sessions which actually were oversold, which I loved on e-learning, and the other one was on acting for narration oversold, which I loved on e-learning, and the other one was on acting for narration, and I just loved the response of the attendees that were there to my classes, and so I had a great time while I was there, but I worked hard, and I will say, though, that the speakers that she had were amazing. 

04:18 You were there, I mean, jessica Blue was there, everett Oliver was there I mean I'm just going on and I met some people that I had never met before in person, which was there. Everett Oliver was there. I mean I'm just going on, and I met some people that I had never met before in person, which was great Casting directors, andy Ross. I mean, I just had such a good time meeting new people and now I've got new resources. 

04:35 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, I had a fantastic time too. What did I teach? I did a breakout session or I don't remember what the name of it was. The term, but it was make taxes less. Taxing had a great turnout, with people trying to figure out how to file their taxes. As a voice actor, that was fun. 

04:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that's important. 

04:49 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) It is important. I'm noticing a slight uptick in people going to conferences and wanting to get a little bit more understanding of the business side of voiceover, which and considering that's what I do as the VO strategist obviously I'm thrilled that people are expressing more of an interest to complement all the great performance training that they want to get and that they know that they need. But I also did one on smaller voiceover market mastery how to, if you live in a suburban or rural area, how you can thrive both online and in person. 

05:15 But the one that was extra interesting is and we talked about this before we started recording is that I was the moderator for the AI panel. 

05:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah. 

05:24 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) And you were in the audience and you participated I was. It was very, very interesting and we had the board of the National Association of Voice Actors, or NAVA, as the panelists president, vice president, director of operations and a member at large and the conversation was very interesting. What I thought was interesting is that I read the room at the beginning, if you remember, and I said who here doesn't know the first thing about AI as it pertains to voiceover? And not a single person raised their hand. Now, maybe they were shy and didn't want to admit they didn't know anything, but I think a lot of them are now that it's been a few years that the voiceover industry has just become aware at all that AI has been permeating the industry long before we understood what was going on. People are making a point to educate themselves, and you have been a huge contributor to that with your VO Boss series. When you interviewed, was it 30 or 35 companies At? 

06:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) least At least 35 CEOs of companies, of AI companies Some are of companies that don't exist anymore and some that do. So, yeah, and that was back. I think I started two and a half years, maybe three years ago, doing that and talking about how do you create a voice, are you ethical, are you, you know, how are you utilizing the voices and how do you feel about voice actors and treating them fairly and giving them compensation for that voice? And so it was something that I really have been on a journey to do, to research and educate myself, because I think, I mean, we're both educators, tom, and it's so important for voice actors to educate themselves about the industry, about the business and how they can run their business to coexist with disruptive technologies like AI. 

07:04 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Right, right Were you in the room when J Michael Collins did his presentation. 

07:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I actually was finishing up a mastery session and he was talking about trends in commercial, I believe, or trends in performance, since the new administration or the upcoming administration change. 

07:22 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, that's why I brought it up, because I sat in on that and took a page of notes. He did a fascinating history of how you can line up who's president of the United States with trends in commercials and tone and what affects us as casting specifications. 

07:39 So he made a lot of interesting points about those who voted for the winner and what kind of reads are maybe called for, and those who did not vote for the winner of the election and the type of reads that are going to resonate with them for the next few years. So I bring this up, bosses, because this is part of the value that you get out of attending any voiceover conference, much less going to MAVO. It's education, it's networking, it's the opportunity to meet great coaches like Anne, or get to know a casting director or someone like that. But also industry trends what's going on in the industry right now and how you need to adjust or adapt your understanding of the voiceover industry and how you can adjust your business model to adapt to what may change in the coming years. 

08:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) One thing that I like to think about in regards to trends is trends. You have to keep your eyes and ears open and assess what you feel is happening in the industry, as well as what your clients are saying. And so, while I would never say this is the trend in black and white, this is what it's going to be or this is what's calling for, and then say that's it, I'm only going to practice that trend. I say be the actor, because when you're the actor, you can be versatile and you can cover any trend and so just know which ones seem to be resonating along with culture and the current status and the current flow of advertising. But also be that actor. Take that coaching, training that allows you to be the actor that can be versatile, that can follow direction, no matter what they want, because there can be trends all over the place. 

09:19 So, for example, after the Super Bowl last year, there was the Poppy read. Right, there was that read. I was not asked for that poppy read very often, even though that was spouted as the latest and greatest big trend. So, again, my customers had their own specific direction for what I do. Also, it depends on genre right, genres that you're working on, and I feel that if you are a well-versed actor, you're gonna be able to adjust yourself to any trend. However, it is important that we all educate ourselves on what's current and relevant out there, because you probably don't want to be out there doing that old announcer read, although that's one of the reads that could potentially come back, or it can be a read that one of your clients wants, and a lot of times we get the gig with one read and then they direct us to something completely different, and so keeping your ears out and eyes out for trends is great, but also that age old advice that sage, wise advice to just get your acting skills in order, I think is absolutely still relevant. 

10:20 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Oh, 100, 100%. And this is why you want to have good coaches that can help guide you through the voiceover industry, teach you the basics of voiceover, that are the evergreen content, like breath control or microphone techniques, script interpretation, and then obviously layering that with the genre training, like what you do with your e-learning and your narration training. And this is where the advantage of going to a voiceover conference is, for both attendees and for speakers and presenters like you and me, is that we can have conversations with speakers, other coaches, other casting directors. What's going on, what trends are you noticing, how have you had to adjust your teaching or coaching style to adapt with what's going on in the industry and how we can prepare for what's going on next. 

11:06 And if there's one thing I noticed is that, yes, you are technically J Michael Collins' competitor and he is technically Everett Oliver's competitor and he is technically Nancy Wolfson's competitor. But like the level of camaraderie and the very from what I've noticed over many years free-flowing exchange of information. Well, you know the old thing the rising tide lifts all boats. So we're all happy to exchange information, Like if I go to the same conference that a Mark Scott does or a Paul Schmidt does, and Paul Schmidt. He was hanging out at the bar for this conference. He wasn't an actual attendee. 

11:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) He was there he was living in the. 

11:41 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) he lives in the area, so he's like yeah, let me go hang out with my friends, and it was. It was awesome to see him. 

11:45 There was a couple of people that just showed up and just like, hey, what's going on? A couple of people that just came to hang out. We all are in these little booths talking to ourselves all the time in a vacuum and we have to build characters and connect and engage, but just to be able to stop wearing sweatpants all day, get out of the booth and just go, just hang out and get dressed up. 

12:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love getting dressed up. 

12:18 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, and look fabulous, fabulous every day, and I actually got the chance to wear a suit which I haven't done in so long. 

12:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I had costume changes, Tom. I had costume changes you know, I call them costume changes, but I love it. 

12:31 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Like you're hosting an Oscar. 

12:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I had a few of them, which is pretty cool. 

12:35 Yeah, Right, Okay, and now it's hand-wearing and a lot of it is just the energy, right, the energy at a conference and the energy especially at a smaller-sized conference too. The energy at, let's say, a larger conference can be overwhelming, right, it's great and it's exhilarating, but it can also be overwhelming and stressful For something for a much smaller venue. I really enjoyed the energy because it wasn't like we couldn't hear each other over the loud din of thousands of people. We were all a close group that kind of gathered in the restaurant slash bar area every night and ultimately had a great time talking to one another, and I absolutely love it. And we did fun, crazy things, Like I actually have a little video that will be coming out. We all had everybody say the same line and be the actors that they are, and so I literally recorded multiple people saying the same line with their drinks in hand and that should be a cute little video coming out in a few days. Everybody just had a blast. Whether you normally do that type of a thing, it was just nice to see the improv and the acting and the laughter and just so much fun hanging out after hours or after the classes are done, and typically when I'm at a conference. 

13:51 I know that for myself I don't know, Tom, if this happens to you too the more conferences I'm presenting, I'm very, very hyper-focused on my presentations because I want to make sure I'm ready and I've got the energy to teach a three or four-hour class, which some of these ended up being, and so I'm not always socializing late in the late hours because I'm like well, I got to get up early, but I noticed that none of it was overwhelming for me, so I was able to hang out and really visit with people later on in the evenings. That I typically do at larger conferences. Just because I find that there's so much noise at the bigger conferences, I get a little more stressed out quicker and I'm like well, I got to go to bed now because I got to make sure I'm up and I can do my class in the morning. I don't know what did you feel about that, Tom? 

14:35 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, I noticed the same thing because we were both at VO Atlanta this spring and, like I said, there's 1,000 attendees and probably what 50 or 60 speakers plus a couple of dozen staff. So it's an amazing, wonderful experience, but it can be a little overwhelming Canva presentations and making sure my outlines are just so and timing it a little bit to make sure I have time for Q&A and sidebars and stories and stuff like that. 

15:05 So, I found myself staying. I was at the bar for a little while. I think I turned into a pumpkin around sometime between 10.30 and 11 o'clock at night, which I think is a yeah that was me. 

15:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's a long time for me. Oh, really At home I'm usually in bed by nine, so I mean oh yeah, I'm like I'm a wimp. 

15:22 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Back in the day. I'd be at the bar until two, three, four in the morning, but I just don't have the battery power for that anymore. Also, I'm hitting the gym in the morning, so like I was in the gym, Me too. Friday, saturday morning and Sunday morning I was in the gym at 7.30. Oh. 

15:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I missed you those. I missed you those times because I was prepping for a nine o'clock class. 

15:43 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well, yeah, I didn't have any nine o'clock classes this time, so I had a little time to be able to go down. I just did like a half hour on the treadmill just to kind of get my steps in and get my circulation going, have a nice breakfast and then get some tea and make my way down. But I was wondering, Anne I'm sure there's a lot of bosses here who have never been to a conference before what would you suggest as some like voiceover conference strategies for someone that's never been to one? 

16:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Ah, yes, for me I really like to get the most out of, and I'm like, probably sometimes the worst, I'm the worst offender because I'm so busy and I'm not looking at the schedule. But I would say look at the schedule, decide ahead of time, right, what classes look good for you, and and really kind of create your schedule before you get there. It's nice you can make last minute changes, you know, once you get there, depending on, like maybe somebody says, oh no, no, no, you really have to go see this talk or this presentation or I've seen this person before and they're really great and you might make changes then. But I think, really having a plan and of course, old school, I'm either a notepad to jot things down or I like to do notes on my phone a lot in order to get things from the presentation. I know that for me, because I've lost my talent to write, tom, I mean, I don't know like, do people like I can barely sign my name these days because I'm typing so much. So a lot of times what I'll do is I'll take a picture, like a screenshot, of the presenters or the screen, if they've got a display, and then I'll just jot down notes while I'm talking in my notes on my phone, or I'll just create right a note on my phone and I'll take pictures while I'm doing it as well. So now I've got the notes and I can take pictures and then I have that across all my platforms, and so that's kind of the way that I take notes for that and I also make sure nowadays to get people's contacts. 

17:28 And, tom, I'm the old school. You probably saw my cards on the table because I purchased them for one other conference and I'm like you know what? I'm just going to leave them on the table. On the back of it I made sure that I had a QR code that basically, when you scan it, I'm right in your contacts in your phone. So it's got my name, yeah, it's got my name, my address. So it's no longer just like oh, it's a card that just has your email, your phone. It has a QR code that you can scan so that it automatically goes into contacts, and I find that that is super beneficial. Like all the contacts that I made, we basically just touched each other's phones or we called each other and then filled out information so that it went right into our contacts. Not so much exchanging cards these days, but I say always have some for backup. What about you? 

18:11 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well, for those of you who are listening to this, I just flashed my VO Strategist business card, which also has a QR code on the back. I also have I think it's hopbio, h-o-p-pbio, where you can kind of make a little mini type of website, and I have one for Tom Deere, voice actor, and I have one for VO Strategist. It's a QR code also, so people scan it and then they can see it's also linked, so it has all your contact information on there. You can even hyperlink your blog to it. So it's just kind of like everything that you are in like one little place. It's like one-stop shopping for marketing. As to note-taking, I have to let everybody know that Anne took a picture of some of my notes at a class at a workshop that she wanted to go to but she couldn't make it to, which is perfect. 

18:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yep, I absolutely did, and I love it. I mean, it's now it's in my phone so I can refer to it at any time, which is great. 

19:01 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I'll deal with your one of two things. I'll use Google Keep, which is a Google note-taking app. But what I've been doing more and more lately is that before I go to a conference and I pretty much know I mean I've got all my presentations, but then I look and see when I'm not presenting and what workshops I have time to attend and be a student of is that I'll set up in Google Drive. I'll set up a Google Doc and it'll just say, like 2014, mavo. So if you go into my Google Doc for those of you who have broken in you see I've got the year that I attend the conference and the name of the conference, so I can just see, in chronological order, every set of notes I've taken for every conference that I presented at or attended. So I'll often bring my tablet and I'll just be typing directly into the Google Drive doc that I had already set up. So when I get home it's already there. I don't have to do anything. 

19:48 But I do take pictures of screenshots, like you do pictures of slides and what I'll often do is, I'll take a picture of the slide and then I will just copy and paste that picture into that Google Drive doc. So I don't have to transpose it either. 

20:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly that way, you've got your notes and your photos. Yeah, it's all together, so it's all together. 

20:07 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) One bit of advice I will give our bosses who do attend a voiceover conference is find a note-taking buddy that looks like they're going to be presentations that you want to go to as like the primary ones you know, like if you want to go to all the ones about cartoons and video games. 

20:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Like you were my note-taking buddy, yeah. Yeah, be a note-taking buddy, you were my note-taking buddy for Jay Michael's presentation Right. 

20:33 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Because you're just like click there, you go, so like, but based on what you want to do. If you have a friend who wants to focus on business and marketing and tech and you want to focus the performance ones, they go to all the other ones and you just take notes and you just swap, yeah. 

20:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I'd like to really like give props to the business classes in the conferences, and I know because I used to teach business classes Sometimes I mean it used to be that they were the hard sell right. 

20:56 And the funny thing is is I think what people need the most is business sometimes, because it's so easy to take performance after performance after performance classes. But your performance is wonderful in your studio by yourself. If you're not selling, if you don't have the business savvy, you don't have the marketing savvy and you're not selling yourself, well then nobody's going to see your beautiful performance. So I do want to give a big push for those of you that go to conferences, give yourself I mean I know you might hate business or you might hate marketing but do yourself a favor and sign up for a marketing session so that you can understand, like, how marketing has trends have changed or new ideas. I mean you could come out with one, just one new golden nugget for how to market yourself and that can make all the difference to get you seen or in front of a casting director, or in front of a talent agent, or in front of a new client and then, boom, it's been able to grow your business. 

21:51 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well as the person who teaches all the business and marketing breakouts and workshops and mastery sessions at all of these voiceover conferences. Obviously, I have a vested interest and I want all of you to attend my classes and take my content. But Anne is 100% right attend my classes and take my content. But Anne is 100% right. There is and I've noticed it over the oh geez, 13 years or so that I've been attending and speaking at voiceover conferences is that they tend to be populated by a lot of professional students. They just keep taking performance class after performance class. They don't take any business and marketing class and they never pull the trigger. They never go for it. 

22:26 Now I can't speak to why any one of them can't or won't pull the trigger. It may be financial they can't leave their day job. It may be psychological they just have certain emotional mental blocks that are preventing them from pulling the trigger. But I say this in almost everything that I speak at is that your talent will get you your first gig with a client. Your project management skills will get you the next gig with the same client. Project management is all the stuff you have to do between the moment that the email hits your inbox and the moment that the check clears. So if you're able to use your talent to get an audition and book it, if you don't know what to do when it's time to press the red button and I'm not talking on a performance level, I'm talking on a technical and a business level you're useless as a voice actor and they're not going to come back. 

23:11 So I speak at a lot of these and there's a lot of other great business and marketing coaches that presented a lot of these. I think it's really important for you to take the time yes, if there's a certain casting director that you want to meet, if there's a certain coach you'd like to connect with to see if you'd be a good fit for getting coached for them and booking a demo, which I know Anne experiences that all the time make it a point to go to one or two business or marketing related things, because it's not even just being about a well-rounded voice actor, it's about being effective at all, because if you don't know that stuff, you're not going to get anywhere. All the best video game and cartoon coaching in the world isn't going to get you anywhere if you don't know how to demonstrate your value, to get you those casting opportunities and if you don't have the business savvy to capitalize on those opportunities, yeah, I mean, I agree, a thousand percent, a thousand percent really. 

23:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, and I've seen it conference after conference and I used to teach the business classes early, early on, before I knew Tom, I used to do like social media classes, business classes, and it was interesting because people were just so drawn to like the character and the animation classes and those performance classes and I think you really just need to have I mean, this is one of the reasons why I started the VO Boss. It was really about the business strategies for voiceover artists and really that's what this podcast was all about to hopefully help educate in the business sense of it, business and marketing sense of things, because you can have the best voice in the world but if nobody knows about it, there you sit, there you sit, wow. So some good tips and tricks, guys. I highly recommend the Mabel conference. I know Val, she just works so hard at it and it really was a lovely conference and I hope I get asked to go back next year. 

24:53 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I hope you do too, and I had a wonderful time and I always look forward to it, and hopefully I will get asked again as well. Hint, hint, val, if you're watching this. 

25:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, Val, we love you Val. So yeah, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. 

25:17 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipdtl. 

Anne Ganguzza sits down with Rolf Veldman, CEO of Voice123, for a riveting discussion on navigating pay-to-play platforms amidst the shifts brought on by disruptive technology. Anne and Rolf go in-depth on pay to plays, social media, and the opportunities and challenges that voice professionals need to navigate. They discuss the complex algorithms that dictate audition opportunities on platforms like Voice123 and the balancing act to make it fair for the different levels of subscribers. As more companies test the validity of AI and synthetic voices, Rolf discusses Voice123's strategic partnerships with specialized companies, highlighting their commitment to protecting voice actors' work through digital fingerprinting. 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey guys, Anne Ganguzza here. Imagine a voiceover journey where every step is filled with discovery and growth. That's the path I want to work on with you, through nurturing, coaching and creative demo production. Let's unveil the true potential of your voice together. It's not just about the destination, it's about the gorgeous journey getting there. Are you ready to take the first step? Connect with me at Anne Ganguzza dot com. Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, anne Ganguza, and today I am so excited to have a very special guest, Rolf Veldman, coming from the Netherlands. Rolf, it is so wonderful to have you today. 

01:07 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) I'm very happy to be here, Anne. 

01:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, for those of you that don't know Rolf, I mean probably everybody knows of you, but Rolf is absolutely a boss who enjoys turning great ideas into great businesses, and I, for one, have been following Rolf for gosh since he stepped into the CEO position, because I like to watch bosses when they work. So Rolf leads a diverse, globally remote team of achievers who are pushing the boundaries of the voiceover industry and maybe pushing the buttons of the voiceover industry too, as we all know and, yes, based in the Netherlands, where I just was, I absolutely love it there. You also like to garden because you live near a national park near the German border, which is awesome. 

01:49 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah. 

01:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, it's always nice to know those other things besides being, you know, the CEO of one of the largest online pay-to-plays that you also like to garden. I love it. 

01:59 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) No, I don't want to say it as my main hobby, but like I'm sitting here in my office but I tend to take my laptop downstairs and then, when it's sunny out, I sit in the garden dogs around me like couldn't make me happier with that. 

02:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Love it and it's so beautiful. The country is just beautiful. 

02:16 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) I don't know exactly where you are, but every part of it that I visited I just absolutely loved. 

02:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, it's tiny, You're through it in a heartbeat Right, but you're close to everything else. 

02:21 I feel so that's what's so cool about it. Well, Rolf, I know we have a little bit of time not too much time and I know that there are, as I mentioned a little bit earlier, there are two things typically that people want to know with pay-to-plays, right, they all want to know about the algorithm and they all want to know about AI. And so start me off by telling me first how, since you've come in to be at Voice123, how the industry has evolved and how Voice123 has evolved. 

02:52 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) I mean that question alone could be two hours. I guess I know right, Because a lot has changed already. I know that AI was already there from the beginning, but since we'll get to that later, I think the main difference is is in the last five to six years because I joined in 2018 the audio part of advertising has exploded. The fact that we're doing podcasts now and not radio, I mean it's open doors to kick in, but so many people are consuming content on their phone by audio more and more and more, like audiobooks have skyrocketed. So many of these industries that voice actors are part of have been growing tremendously and as part of that, also the number of people who want to be in voiceover. So it's been an explosive amount of people coming into the industry. And when new people come into the industry, that changes things all the way from how you offer your services to how relevant certain companies become. 

03:44 Like I felt the last five years, and even now, Voice on 3 is constantly at risk of being replaced. We might be here for the last 20 years, but how do we stay relevant? So our goal is always to stay at the core of what we do. In the core of what we do is we want to make sure that voice actors and their clients they build great relationships don't get in the way like that's sort of our vision of what our role is in the voiceover industry. By staying close to that, I think we're still very much a relevant player and it's still a popular place for people to find each other and do VO. 

04:11 But especially the amount of people that came in and the type of work that has changed the last couple of years has been wow. Like, just to build on that, like we have a search bar in Voice on 3 where you can see where clients type in keywords what they're looking for and you can see trends that used to last maybe six months or nine months in terms of style of voiceover or popular niche. They now change week over week. Really depends on what is hot on TikTok or Instagram. Advertisers jump on it straight away and you see that reflected in how people are getting booked on Voice on 3. Like the space, part of it has changed. 

04:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know, what's so interesting is that we talk in our industry. We're like, okay, what are people looking for? And we go to these workshops with casting directors and we say, okay, what are people looking for? But what's so interesting is that you have a really good idea of what people are looking for, and I think that voice actors sometimes we have a narrow view right of what do we need to do to. First of all, you mentioned the word relevant, which I think is so important, not just for your business, but so important for us to remain relevant and to be able to deliver products that our clients are looking for. And you have a great idea of what people are looking for. 

05:19 So, bosses, listen up. I mean, rolf is kind of the guy that has a really good idea of what trends are happening, what people are looking for in the online space and maybe just in general, right, because there are so many people now that are seeking voice talent online as opposed to going through agents. And so the people that go through agents, right, think about, in the United States, agencies and talent agents that book commercials, promos, those types of things that are broadcast. Well, you probably get pretty much. Well, you get some of that, and I'm sure that you get quite a bit of all the other non-broadcast stuff too, and that's where we as an industry right. 

05:59 We don't always know what are people looking for. People constantly ask when I'm coaching them what do people look for? What are people looking for for corporate narration? What are people looking for? People constantly ask when I'm coaching them what do people look for? What are people looking for for a corporate narration? What are people looking for for e-learning and that sort of thing? So I love that you, number one, said that you need to remain relevant, because we also, as bosses, need to do that, and also you can tell us a little bit more about trends that are happening. 

06:19 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, there's so much we can zoom in, but let me start with some fundamentals. 

06:22 That I think that people sometimes underestimate is that while maybe, as a voice actor, you are nervous because you have to audition and you have to start this relationship, on the other side is a person that's often in the same place. Most people don't know vo and most people are either creating a video or an ad and then voice over is just the other thing that they do. So so they come in with especially new clients. They come in with complete misunderstandings of how this industry works and what they're looking for is almost like handholding, and not from us but from you. Like we see that the people that are most successful on voice on the three actually spend a great deal in being very consistent in their communication, like being almost like your own customer support agent, and that you're very crystal clear in what your availability is, how you respond to these clients, because most clients are afraid of two things Bad studio quality, which is still number one problem for a lot of people who book voiceover. That there are still many, many people who record via the phone. 

07:23 And that you can stand out by just having your environment checked and being sure that you have a fair minimum on that one and again you beat out 80% of the people on places like voice on the 3 and voices in other places just by doing that. 

07:35 The other one is that first contact point, and that first contact point is all about that customer relationship and being welcoming, being helpfully trustworthy towards the other side. 

07:45 A lot of voice actors not a lot, but some voice actors come at it with a lot of distrust with the first message is the list of demands, and we see that they don't succeed so well If the first interaction is a question or a welcome. We see that just those messagings are so important on a digital space, because the difference between going online and going through an agency is if you want to work with an agent, most likely what the end client wants is an experience, the experience of doing the ad and going to a studio and look at us, we're doing the real thing, like people are just people. They go to work, they want to experience their own little piece of hollywood. That's what you get by an agent. But on casting sites there's a lot of people that have a deadline, they want to meet it and I want to make it a joyful experience. So they want to collaborate. So if you start from collaboration, you have so much of an advantage. 

08:30 Then there's two other things that I think are trends. 

08:33 The other one is the pandemic has changed or accelerated the amount of people who want to turn their content into audio. 

08:43 One of our fastest growing clients on Voice on 3 is universities and colleges, because they used to give in-class lessons, but they took what's left of the pandemic and basically turned every course into an e-learning course as well, just on the side or as a way to get back to it. So that's a fast growing segment of voiceover. And the other one is that more and more clients know that they have to stand out, but they also have to be consistent in their messaging, so they want to work exclusively with one or two voices that represents their whole brand. That used to be like Coca-Cola has a celebrity. Now, even on a midsize and lower size companies, they want to have a consistent voice and they want to work with that same person. And that means that you as a voice actor need to be more versatile. You need to not just do specializing the commercial side of it, but be available for maybe some of the in-house aspects that that company wants to do. 

09:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I like that A couple of interesting things. I like that, yeah, a lot, and one thing I've always liked about Voice123 is that you basically allow us to nurture that relationship with the client. You don't get into it, you don't do any managed sort of projects that I know of, unless that's something that you're thinking of doing or is that, yeah. 

09:50 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) So the whole fundamental aspect of Voice on the 3 is we know that we succeed if the voice actors succeed. We know that the only way to succeed as a voice actor is if you can turn a client into a returning client. 

10:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes. 

10:01 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Right. 

10:02 So, for that. We need to make it an open space Like we would love to build the perfect features for everybody to do everything on Voice on the 3, but we know that people work in their own way, so we will never make it forced to stay on Voice on the 3. People put their emails in their profile. Often the first message is this is my email, let's move over here. Or maybe you've experienced this yourself, but you can see people being contacted on LinkedIn based on an audition they did on Voice123. Oh yeah, absolutely. 

10:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I still have a client that I got on Voice123 from ages ago and I wasn't even a member, I was in between memberships and I was on the free. So I still have one client that I've retained through that relationship and I love that. You brought up how important the relationship is and nurturing the relationship and how people online are, yes, absolutely looking for an experience. You're right, there's a lot of companies out there. Well, first of all, they don't know a lot about voiceover, they don't really know how it works, and so it's up to the voice actor to really kind of handhold and take them through that process successfully, and then they have a great chance of that client returning, which is one of the ways that I've been able to stay in business for so long. 

11:07 I mean, honestly, I do a lot of things Everybody that knows me, I do this podcast, I do a bunch of other things and so I'm very fortunate that I have a lot of returning clients and that's how my business is maintained and that's an important thing these days, especially when economies shift and they go up and down, and so it's really important to have those clients that keep returning and know that there's a lot of successful people utilizing Voice123 that have been able to do that. 

11:32 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) And there's a position of strength that you have as a voice actor is that you have the word actor or artist in your name, which immediately creates awe. Like every time I talk to you or any kind of voice actor or professionals, I always feel that I'm exposed to my own incompetencies, like I cannot do what you do. You're the one in the booth, you're the one who can act. Most companies have tried this with somebody in-house and then suddenly you record. It's such a massive difference. So you, you come in as an expert, so it's okay to then guide the client in the process to a certain of course. 

12:03 Of course there's always the client, the agency, the production houses that roll out a lot of ads and a lot of videos. Those are also good relationships, but those are relationships you manage differently. That's more about being available. You let them know that, okay, I'm available. My reply time is like 10 minutes. Well, for another type of client where you can see this is the end user or the people who are actually going to make the ad themselves. That's where you are the professional. So you have to know those tiny nuances and how you portray yourself in that relationship. I think are fundamental. 

12:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I think all of this is wonderful and great, but the one thing I know that are on the boss's minds right now are so how do I book that? What would you recommend that I do? How do I get the jobs to my inbox right? And that's controlled by something called an algorithm, which is probably the one big main point of dispute on every pay-to-play, not just voice one, two, three right, like what's the algorithm? Because you're getting the jobs and then somehow there needs to be a method to distribute those jobs equally amongst your members, and then there's different membership levels. So explain a little bit about how that works. 

13:08 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah. 

13:08 So it came from a very practical problem that we basically got too big. 

13:12 So the algorithm is basically a fancy word for a decision process and it's very straightforward where a client posts a project and if it's US, english, female, like, you're still in a group, but as soon as it's male, you're no longer in the group, right. 

13:25 So there's a couple of basic requirements of who you are as a person and what your services are, and then we go into the next stage where our goal is to get the client the most relevant auditions for their project right. So what we do is we invite the first group of people, and in that first group of people are a mix of people with good performance scores and with memberships. So if you pay the highest tier, you're stepping up compared to the lowest tier. We control the highest tier, otherwise it would be a monopoly but basically it's a mix of what you pay and then there is the ranking score, as we call it, and that is based on the client's feedback, whether a client books you from a job or likes you in the process of auditioning. That's what we take back and we use the last year's worth of data for that and that makes your score fluctuate. 

14:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So it's a whole year's worth of data. So, how do you convince your client or your potential client to rate you? I guess that's a question, right, because some clients are just they're not going to bother with the rating, right? Yeah? 

14:24 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) no, that's the flaw in the system, right? Ideally, every client that comes through we tell them let us know who you work with, but, as you know, most clients don't use us that way. Only like 40% of the work goes through the auditions. The other half is a mix of what happens on our search or on landing pages that are separately, because you can also just go through our directory. 

14:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, right, right, and then they can contact separately. 

14:47 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) So all we know is from the audition, and in the past we've tried to force the client to close the project. Let us know who won or force the client to close the project Let us know who won or force the client to book a project, but all it did was scare the clients away and they don't want to use us anymore. We have to keep that open because we also want to keep the platform open, because if we make booking, Difficult. 

15:07 Yeah, if we make it too forceful for you, then we become a middleman. We don't want to be a middleman, so we have to balance the fact that we don't want to collect that much information. We have to have enough information to know that it's relevant. So there's a flaw in the system that not every client likes all the proposals. That's why voice actors can now tell us hey, I got booked through this job and that counts also to your algorithm. But yeah, it's a fundamental issue in the algorithm Over a year's worth of data. That works and I have to think in big numbers, right, because we have about 120,000 active voice actors on a platform. So for 100,000, that works. But every now and then people fall off the edge and then we have to make sure that they don't waste their money on a membership. So that's why we're constantly tweaking the algorithm to make it better. 

15:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, I was going to say. So what percentage? Or is this the percentage that changes is based on the feedback score, because I think the feedback score for most people is obviously it's the most variable, right? So when I make a decision to join Voice123, I have how many different membership tiers? I want to say eight or something, yeah, eight tiers to choose from. So do I pay you more money? And then how do I know, and you know what? I mean, how do I know which tier to pick? 

16:15 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) I know, and you know what. 

16:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean Like how do I know which tier to pick? 

16:13 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, so that's why we try to show you like in which market you're competing. One of the reasons we have the extra tiers is that we operate in every country, but like North Korea and some other sanctioned countries. So in a marketplace like the Netherlands, where I'm from, vo is not that big and we don't get a lot of jobs for Dutch people on Voice on 3, but enough and we have enough voice actors, so those people pay a lower tier In the US, which is very competitive if Voice on 3 is your only casting site that you go on, I would suggest paying a higher membership. 

16:45 If Voice on 3 is something that you have on the site or that you partly work on and you work on other casting sites as well and you have agents, I wouldn't necessarily recommend a higher membership tier because throughout the year you get enough auditions and you have to be very selective about them, and you get enough direct messages to pay for itself. 

17:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I think what most people don't think about and you just pointed it out to me actually is that because it's global and because of the availability of the different jobs that come in, right, I think a lot of people maybe I can speak for people in the US they're like well, if I pay more, I should get more opportunities and I should be able to book more, but that's not always the way, because we don't want people who our clients consistently tell us not good to pay their way to the top. Got it. 

17:29 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) But we also know, if you pay a little bit more for a membership you get very into voice on the dream. So they become very active. That's very good for us as well, because that means clients get fast additions. There's multiple aspects to it. 

17:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and this is a part that I never thought about and I'm so glad that you're bringing it up because you know, I think that with a better understanding of how Voice123 works, we can then as members of Voice123, make an educated decision as to maybe, which membership tier would be best for us and also what sort of issues you face, because there are so many variables in casting. And one thing I'm going to bring up before I let you continue is that I've always maintained that online casting companies pay-to-plays they don't have any accountability necessarily I'm not saying that about you, but I'm saying some of them don't in the fact that where did the job come from, did it get booked and who booked it? Right, and you just brought that up. I mean, you don't always know, the client doesn't always fill it out and the client is sometimes scared Well, maybe not, it's too many steps, right? They just want to be able to get in get their talent cast it Exactly. 

18:35 So you've brought up like a fundamental fact that I think a lot of people just they don't think about when they're making that quick decision and they're just saying, well, I pay all this money, I should be getting the auditions, and how am I not ranking? And it's not fair. So I love that you're bringing up all the different sides of how you cast and I think you, especially by coming on this podcast and for the amount of times that I've seen you go, I mean literally put yourself out there at the conferences so that you can explain. I have so much respect for you for that and I thank you for that, Rolf, because that helps us. Do you know what I mean? And it helps me as, look, I recommend you guys all the time to my students and so it helps me really think, yes, I like the way this company operates. I'm on board because you're transparent. 

19:17 I really believe you know and I appreciate your transparency with all of these things that we don't think about necessarily as actors, because we're not running that part of your business. We don't know what it takes to put together an algorithm, or we don't always know like what your clients and that's the biggest thing, we don't always know how clients operate, and I'm always telling my students that you know. If you're reaching out to a company directly to say, hey, I'm a voice actor, do you need services? Like, at any given point they may or may not need the service. You know what I mean. And so a direct marketing method is completely different than, let's say, somebody who comes to a pay-to-play because they have a need, Right Direct marketing. You don't know when that need's going to happen. Every company every day doesn't necessarily have a voiceover need, which is crazy. 

20:00 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) And I think to bring this back to like you're a boss yourself, like if you do three things half-assed, you're not going to succeed in any of those right. So I would for any starting voice actor, particularly if you're constantly forced between the decision do I go hard for an agent? Do I go hard for these online casting sites or do I go direct marketing? Especially in the beginning. I would tackle them one at a time and even within the casting sites. Being on a casting site like Voice on the 3 or Voices or Badalgo, is so different. You cannot duplicate your profile or your behavior among these companies because they're their own ecosystem. So you have to really spend time to get to know it, because you're spending your marketing budget on these sites. So I would say tackle them one at a time, otherwise you're spread too thin. 

20:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I get you, I get you. But I would also say, though, that as you progress and as you advance, and then people will say to me they've been in the business for years and they're like, well, I spent all this money on coaching and demos and a pay to play, and why am I not getting any work? Then I think I'm sorry, but you got to throw the spaghetti up against the wall, right. You've got to get yourself out in front of as many people as you can, and there's multiple marketing methods, and I think that that's what people don't understand. They think it's either putting all your eggs in one basket for pay-to-plays I should be getting work, I'm not getting work. I'm going to make any money in it? I think you really have to explore all the different options of marketing that you have right Direct marketing, pay to plays and, of course, agents and understand the intricacies of each. That is, I think, just as important as keeping your skills up to date, and your performance up to date is understanding the marketing and understanding the market that's out there. 

21:33 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, and understanding your own business, your business's relationship, and you know that you don't nurture a relationship in a day. 

21:39 That's months If you're starting out that means that only in your second year or in your third year VO starts to pay off, because then all these people that come back start to compound. So you have to do a lot of the legwork, which is the scary part, especially on, maybe, sites like Voice123, where you feel like I'm auditioning, I'm not getting stuff back like it's working, but there's a patience to it. That's one of the reasons we have yearly memberships. We use them quarterly but we know that, okay, it takes about six to seven months for people who are starting out to get really booked for the first time properly, and actually it takes about two years for people to make about five times their money back. That's what we learned. 

22:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's very interesting to know, and I like that you brought up the fact that a relationship doesn't happen overnight. It really does take time to culture that relationship, and so I think that that's important for people to know too is that sometimes they quit too soon, too quickly, before they've given it a chance. So I love all that you've brought up so far. So let's get to the chase and talk about the other area that everybody wants to know, and that is synthetic voices and everybody's feeling very threatened by them, and so talk about Voice123's stance and position on synthetic voices. 

22:46 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, maybe I said this before, but when I joined the company in 2016 and in 2018 I became CEO, it was already my first mission to say okay. The board told me then AI is coming. It's either going to replace us and that's the fear back then Like it's going to replace voice actors and therefore voice one to three. What do we do? My view has shifted the last couple of years and even the last couple of months. Even though AI is everywhere, what I keep coming back to is the thing that we're talking about this entire podcast. It's relationships and the creative aspect. I think AI will do great in any industry to reduce inefficiencies, but it will never replace creative work or never replace art. That's why it's art right. So what our idea has been these last couple of years? We can go in so many directions, but we need to stay at the core and that is, we need to amplify that. You have a relationship with a client. 

23:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) How does AI play that role. 

23:36 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) We first thought maybe we should build our own AI model. But we realized, okay, that requires its own company and a lot of work. There's geniuses that work everywhere. 

23:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know that from interviewing so many people have realized this over the time. 

23:48 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, so that's not a side thing you do. 

23:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, it's not a side hustle. 

23:52 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) No. So then we realized, okay, maybe we should partner or acquire a company that does this already. But then we realized, same as with VoiceOver, ai goes into specific niches. So there's a company called Replica Studio they're all into gaming, right. There's a company like Respeech here that's more into movie part of it, and they have speech. And you see all these companies specializing on VO purposes. So we realized, okay, no, we need to instead of thinking about that technology. The technology will be there In two or three years. Anybody can build voiceover technology. 

24:23 So, let's wait for that to happen. Let's set up the Voice on the 3 ecosystem in such a way that it is a secure place, because even before AI, voice actors have always been worried about is my audition being used without my permission? Right, are my files being stolen? So we learned from companies like Adobe, who have created all these kind of initiatives, to start stamping and IDing and signing all these different designer files to protect these freelancers. We have decided to sign every piece of audio file that flows through Voice on 2.3. Have decided to sign every piece of audio file that flows through Voice on 2.3. So that we have, like, a history and a protection layer within the system, without it being a watermark that beeps everywhere, but just a layer of protection that you always come back to. And we take basically a three-step approach. We sign every audio, we make it searchable for you in a cloud where you can access all the files that are being signed on Voice on 2.3. And you can check. That's the last part. 

25:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So it's digitally signed. Got it All the audio that gets uploaded? Yep, okay. 

25:21 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) All the audio, and that includes audio that isn't like. 

25:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) This is just all audio additions, yeah. 

25:27 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) And samples and everything that flows through the system. We just tag it, say it is found on 1, 2, 3, and it acts like a fingerprint that's unique, which also means that we got to a place, because there's so many samples that we got to ID your voice, so on top of that, we sort of added a Shazam for your voice. 

25:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So if I have uploaded stuff to your system, you know that it's mine and you also know that it's voice one, two, three, and if it gets out of your system it is still got that mark on it and it's not audible. It's a digital fingerprint. 

25:56 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) That's. I mean you should have done a pitch. That's way faster, yep. The last part of this is that, even if you hear your voice somewhere else and you think this is me, somebody has used my file or I don't recognize it, but you can upload it and then we can say, hey, this is with 95% certainty. 

26:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow, that's fantastic. 

26:12 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) So we thought we need that layer of protection in the system for people to feel safe to start also working on AI, and that's then. The next part is that we have a better life where voice actors who have a relationship with an AI vendor so let's say it's Respeecher, or Replica Studios or Eleven Labs I mean there's 50,000, I shouldn't name them all but if you have a relationship with any of these vendors, then we want to make sure it's available to our clients, in the same way that we let them know that you use SourceConnect. And what we thought would happen is that, okay, we have a version of our search where you type in a script and it automatically generates the audio. If you have an agreement with one of those companies, we thought, okay, they will start buying it. Nobody buys it. Nobody buys the audio file. What is happening is all those generated audio files turn into conversations where the client says I liked your voice in my script, let's work together. So what it is doing is it's creating a new type of audition. 

27:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Very interesting. 

27:09 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Which I like, which is, for the clients, a fast way to get to know. Does Anne sound good in my script? Yes, okay, let's book Anne and do the real deal outside or inside. It's changing that part. 

27:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So they're listening to the AI voice and then saying I want to work with Anne and get her human voice. That's very interesting. 

27:31 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Now that sounds almost too good to be true, rolf. Yeah, but so far it's what we see. But so far that's what you're seeing. So I think it's the 90-10 rule I think I mentioned this before where, in the end, ai is going to be part of us in the same way that all these other tools source connect and 10 years ago you had to start having your own home studio. The people who did that first, they pioneered that part of the industry. 

27:44 Within the next five years, every voice actor will have an AI model. A client will ask them hey, I've generated 90% of this commercial or this audiobook with your AI. Can you do the last, the last 10? Can you come in for this scene? Or can you come in for this piece or the other way around? Great recording. We're going to do some post-production, maybe change some words. Do you consent to this that I use your ai for this, and so it speeds up those kind of moments? But in the end, people want to work with an and part of an is an's ai voice and we think voice on three's goal. Okay, let's make it the place where that happens. We don't make money on what any of the interactions is between you and the voice actor, like we do now, but let's make sure that this is a safe place where you can give clients access to your AI model in a way that you want to. 

28:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So how are you actually giving clients access to? If you have an AI voice, how are you actually giving access to it? Are they able to generate it there on your site or no, they cannot download it. Oh, they can't download it. 

28:39 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) They can buy it, and then all the money goes to the voice actor. 

28:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Say that again. 

28:44 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) All the money goes to the voice actor, okay. 

28:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So you're not taking any percentage of that. 

28:48 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) No, we add a fee on top of it, but never from it. Okay. 

28:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, okay, yeah, and so do we price our voice ourselves. 

28:56 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, it's your rate card. Okay To be honest what I think will happen. We have this debate internally as well, so we're now in a first beta mode of this. Let's say it's six months from now or nine months from now no-transcript. You give them access to your model there and you can see what they're doing to generate it. It's like a logbook of how they generate it. That would be my ideal scenario of how it's getting used, because then you have full control. 

29:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And so the talent is creating a rate card for their synthetic voice, then yeah, so let's say, when I create a profile, do I also upload a version of my synthetic voice? How do I make that available? 

29:37 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, right now you can just sign on to. If you go to the Voice on 3 search, it says connect your voice and you can start the process there, got it, and then we'll ask you these questions. But later on, ideally, it becomes part of your signing up. Hey, do you have an AI voice? Yes, what's your rate card? Then go here If you don't access to the client and you can embed this on your own homepage. Right, you can use the same logic on your homepage without showcasing the logo of Voice on the 3. 

30:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, wow, that's interesting. So you have an API that allows us to embed it on our own website. 

30:09 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) You can already do your playlist of Voice on the 3 on your own website without showcasing Voice on the 3. So, it's the same logic. And then if you connect it with the cloud, where all your files are being stored and being signed, then it's hard to put it into order. But that was the whole six-layered strategy that we have. Okay, let's make sure there's trust. Let's make sure there's enough that we can track everything that's happening. 

30:30 Let's make sure that we expose the relationship between the voice actor and the client, and that's sort of the vision that we have for AI. 

30:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's great. You know, I'd love to meet up again with you in you know a couple of months and have maybe a visual demonstration of this. I think it would be really great. Or if you have a visual demonstration of it. I'd love to link it up in my show notes. 

30:47 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) All right, yeah, we'll share something yeah absolutely. 

30:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That just sounds very interesting. There's a lot of layers there and there has lot of protection in terms of they can't download the file, but can they have, like I mean there's lots of ways to steal audio. 

31:02 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) You know what I mean. That's not AI related, right? It was there before AI and will there be after. That's true. 

31:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's true. So there's nothing theoretically, I'm a tech girl, right? So there's nothing stopping anybody from taking our voices from this podcast right now, and making an AI voice out of them. So I just want bosses to be very careful of that. So the one thing about the signing right that you have the digital signing like this is Anne's voice. It came through Voice123. Is that open source technology? 

31:26 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, we're building on existing open source technology. 

31:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) OK, because a lot of us voice actors right now we're like, ok, we keep hearing about it, we keep hearing about it. It isn't available to us yet. You know, I would like to have something right now that, even if I'm not a member of Voice123, I can just filter it, put it through and then my voice has a digital signature that later on somebody can tell if that audio or if I become a voice somehow, that they will be able to tell that it was my voice. 

31:52 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) I agree. That's the whole idea. Yeah, so, and one of the reasons here we're pivoting more towards this is in part because we're going back to the beginning of this podcast about trends. We see that auditioning becomes less and less popular in the industry. The old school I want 50 auditions and I want to see as many talent as possible. I can see the new generation doesn't really want to do that. The next generation of people who book voiceover. They want to do the direct contact approach. They want to listen to some of your samples and then contact you directly and move it off. 

32:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's lovely. That's a really good trend. I like that, Rolf. 

32:25 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) I think so too, but it also means for companies like ourselves okay, we have to reinvent ourselves a bit, yeah yeah, yeah, we have to make sure that we're relevant, and that's why we're focusing all about security and tooling, and your algorithm has to change then, too, right? 

32:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Because then people searching on your site for a particular style of voice right? How do you get up at the top of that list without necessarily the feedback on any auditions, right? So you have to evolve with that as well. But that direct contact, I like that trend because I can actually see that happening myself outside of pay-to-plays, because it's becoming almost like overwhelming, right. With social media and data out there, it's becoming overwhelming, and I think people that are looking to cast for a voice they want it to be. That's why talent agents are good, because, again, they're a trusted source. They are the ones who like shortlist and say, okay, here you go, and it makes it less overwhelming for the client. 

33:17 So you're experiencing that as well on pay-to-plays and I like that. I like that because I feel like it gives everybody a fairer shot of it. I mean, I get how, like auditioning, people want to hear you speaking their brand, but also I think they want to just kind of weed out all of the. You know there's a lot of people out there they want to weed out all the voices. Maybe I don't need a male voice or I want a female voice and I want somebody that has good audio, and I love that you brought that up, because good audio is still at the very core of a good product. 

33:47 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) So many people in Voice on 3 put in their tagline what they do like a perfect girl-next-door kind of approach. That's the kind of voice I do. If you put in your tagline studio quality, you're beating out half the team. 

34:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Ah, thanks for that tip, I like that. That's a golden nugget, rolf. So what a great conversation. I almost hate to have to cut this short, because I'd like to see a demonstration of the whole synthetic voice, ai, integration, and I might be calling you back in a couple of months. 

34:15 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) I would love to yeah, yeah, thank you to you? 

34:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, thank you so much. It's been an honor. I love, I love talking to you, ralph. So you are a boss. You are definitely a boss. Thank you for always being transparent. 

34:32 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Thank you for bringing us on the other side of the glass, so to speak. It's the other side of the discuss these kind of things, like we only know the voice actor experience by talking to all of you, so this is our way also to get to stay in touch. 

34:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, good stuff. Rolf, thanks again. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl Connect and network like bosses using IPDTL and, of course, voice123 and bosses out there. I have a nice little discount for you. If you are interested, I'll put that in the show notes. You can get a little discount if you are a first time sign up to Voice123. Ralph, thanks again. Bosses, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. 

35:12 - Announcement (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Ann Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

Audio tech expert George Whittam, the genius behind George the Tech, joins Anne Ganguzza, on the VO Boss Podcast. The BOSSes tackle the technical hurdles of the industry - from unreliable internet to optimizing studio setups. George's solutions help empower voice talents to keep their focus where it belongs—on their craft. The BOSSes delve into strategies for leveraging technology and outsourcing to scale operations effectively. Adapting to change is non-negotiable in this rapidly shifting market, and finding a mentor can be crucial for navigating its complexities. The BOSSes highlight the importance of forming meaningful industry relationships and the camaraderie that can fuel professional success. 00:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey guys, it's that season again. Are you feeling that tickle in your throat? Don't let a cold or flu slow you down. Combat your symptoms early with Vocal Immunity Blast, a simple and natural remedy designed to get you back to 100% fast. With certified therapeutic-grade oils like lemon to support respiratory function, oregano for immune power, and a protective blend that shields against environmental threats, your vocal health is in good hands. Take charge of your health with Vocal Immunity Blast. Visit anneganguzza dot com to shop. 

00:41 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

01:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so happy and elated to be here with my special guest, audio tech guru and owner of George the Tech the one and only George Whittam, Woo-hoo. 

01:16 - George Whittam (Guest) Hey, can you hear me okay from the Chili's in Palos Verdes, california. 

01:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I can I, can I love it. You know George is. He is technology on the go, guys, and for those of you I don't know anyone that doesn't know you, but for those of you bosses out there that don't know George, you need to know George. He has been doing this since 2005, dedicating his life and I know this because he's helped me to serving the technical needs of bosses out there voice actors, podcasters, recording studio owners and in 2017, he launched georgethetechcom to assist anybody that needs support with just about anything. And he has an amazing team. I know firsthand. I have used that team. I've used George for many, many years and among his many successful clients I'm gonna say, in addition to me, are Don LaFontaine, bill Ratner, mr Beast, david Prog, melissa Disney, randy Thomas, joe Cipriano and Scott Rummel. Well, welcome, welcome, welcome and thank you for checking in with me, george, from your very busy schedule. George actually just popped off the road and said I will join this interview from the Chili's after my customer that you just went to go fix a studio. 

02:32 - George Whittam (Guest) I did, I did. I do most of my work from home, of course, remotely, but I have a few clients who do have me on a membership program that I've been doing for many years and I make regular visits. So today was one of those days and technology, once in a while, it just flails miserably at letting you know that there's something you're supposed to be doing, and this was one of those moments. You texted me from the car. You're just, and you're like out of the blue tech, just checking in, and I'm like, oh, that's so nice, and it's just checking in, see you're not checking in. 

03:03 You're like where the F are you right now? 

03:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) George, george, where are you? 

03:07 - George Whittam (Guest) In our Riverside room right now. So anyway, thank you. I hope this isn't too distracting. They find me a quiet corner of the restaurant, so we'll see how it goes. 

03:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love it. I will say, though, here's the deal, my video now Riverside. Anybody that's been on Riverside knows that it's uploading video and audio separately, and right now my upload is at 94%, Yours is only at 55%, so that 5G connection keep your fingers crossed that that internet is going to upload that video successfully and the audio Don't worry. Well, guess what I get to do this again. 

03:42 - George Whittam (Guest) I got your back because I'm recording it. I was about to say, I was recording in QuickTime and it said that you've stopped recording, so I'm going to start recording it again, just so I have another layer of redundancy to this whole thing. But that is the really cool thing about Riverside is that, yeah, it doesn't want QuickTime, won't let me. Okay, fine, fine, we're going to rely on new technology today. But, yeah, riverside is really cool the way it keeps a local record and even if my internet isn't, great. 

04:09 I'll eventually get it uploaded to you, so don't worry about that. Yes, Awesome. 

04:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, it's always a good excuse to chat with you again, because it's so rare these days, I mean except when I'm desperate in need of technical support. 

04:22 - Intro (Announcement) And. 

04:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'll have the bosses know that George helped me with my past or my latest studio upgrade. And I remember, george, that we were talking about me moving my Apollo solo into my studio which, by the way, it is moved in here and we were testing out this very long cable that went from my Mac studio out there into my studio and guess what it's working, and yay, technology. And so, george, you're instrumental in all of my studio upgrades and actually my original studio building when I moved to California back in oh my goodness, 2008. And so you've been through a lot of my studio builds. And let's talk a little bit about, oh gosh, what bosses need audio-wise right for being successful voice actors. They have so many technological needs. 

05:14 - George Whittam (Guest) It is so many. You know. The thing is not everybody is like you, anne. 

05:19 You love and embrace technology in a way that a lot of actors do not right and so on the cover of the laptop that you can't see because it's on the other side of the camera. I have a cover on my laptop and it's a picture of the left brain, right brain thing, right Like you know, the left being very technical, the right being creative, and I'm such a big proponent of finding the perfect middle balance. Maybe that's because I'm also a Libra, I don't know, but you know it's like I'm such a big proponent of finding the perfect middle balance. Maybe that's because I'm also a Libra, I don't know, but you know it's like I'm always trying to find that balance and I'm also trying to figure out who you are as my client. Are you more Ann Ganguza, or are you more Lori Allen, who's my quintessential super right brain, crazy actor talent, you know, and she knows that I'll say that and she'll laugh that doesn't love technology or doesn't care, right, I mean I get it. 

06:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean we go into this industry. I mean some of us are just super, super creative and brilliant. 

06:18 - George Whittam (Guest) If we had our choice, we would let someone else run all the technology and take care of it for us, which is what you do Absolutely. In a perfect world, we would all have our own little virtual assistant engineer people who just log into your machine and run everything for you. I do know a precious few actors who have actually availed themselves of such a thing, which is a pretty nice position to be in, right, and that would be a really cool scenario where you really don't need to think about it. But the fact of the matter is, the vast majority of the time, we have to think about and know what's going on with the technology and ensure that we're giving the client super clean, great quality audio quickly and on time, reliably, etc. Etc. And that's the goal. 

07:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It is about good audio, but it's about a lot of other things beyond just good audio, you know, willing to really experiment and figure out solutions for your clients that are not like status quo. So if they have a budget, you can fit yourself within that budget and you make things work and you say, all right, so if you need this, we can maybe substitute this or we can work with this. And I'm talking bosses, my firsthand experience, not just on what microphone or give me a stack to put on my audio, but like home studio builds from the ground up, like what can I do to save money here? Or what can I do? I have this in my budget and you literally have created things from like the ground up, depending on your client's budget. 

08:01 And I think that that's really awesome and it really goes to show like the versatility and the amount of skills that you have in, not just like one thing. I mean you have to be great at everything, because everybody has different technology, everybody has a different microphone, everyone has a different DAW, everyone has a different environment in their house that you have to kind of assess and then say, well, okay, here's a solution. And then I'm quite sure, myself being one of them going, no, I can't do that, so you'll come up with multiple solutions. Or if something doesn't work, you'll actually get it to work. You'll figure out what it is that's not working and then make it work. 

08:38 - George Whittam (Guest) Yeah, it's so many different things because there's a lot of things that you can get away with or there's certain things that you can make work or get it to work. Here's my black bean burger and fries. 

08:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right. 

08:50 - George Whittam (Guest) There's a lot of things you can get away with, so I'll try to talk while you take a bite. I will eat when you're talking, okay, so there's a lot of things that you can make work. There's a lot of things that you can get away with, and that's where people start out right. That's where you begin, that's where you learn on your own. 

09:06 That's where you get used equipment. You get hand-me-downs, you buy what you can find on Amazon, right, you get away with it. You make it work. But at a certain point your clientele requires this consistency, quality and this quick turnaround, and that stuff starts to be cumbersome, it becomes a bother because it's getting in your way, right. So that's a big part of it. And then I'm glad you said earlier budget. 

09:33 You really need to know where you're at. I mean, this is why voice acting, especially now as an entrepreneurial pursuit, you really need to have a pretty good idea where you're at with your budget. When you come to me, be honest with yourself, be honest with me. I'm not here to spend unnecessary money. I'm not here to push you or upsell you. I'm going to tell you exactly where you're at, based on where you are with your budget, and make sure it fits, because that's my goal is to help you out and get you where you need to go at the budget you've had to spend. 

10:07 And then if it's either really too low, I'll let you know if I think it's not going to work, or I will speak up if I think you're overspending, if I think you've got this budget and it's unnecessarily. You know it's like, oh well, you've got that much to spend, all right. Well, let's think about that. Should we really spend all of that? Or should we really be spending 20% of that on the mic and maybe 50% of that on building your website, getting your demo, that kind of stuff right? So I'll make sure your money is spent the right way, but be really honest with yourself about what your budget is. Know where you're ready to spend so we can get off on the right foot. 

10:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So let's talk about the types of services that you do offer, because I'm happy to recommend you and your team to my students, and I think they might have preconceived notions as to oh well, george can just create a stack for me, or George can just tell me what microphone to buy, with lots of experience in multiple operating systems. So it's not just the mic or not just the studio, it can be your computer, it can be your software, it can be how to use Twisted Wave or how to use I just had a student the other day Studio One. I'm sure you have somebody on your team that can help with somebody with Studio One, and so can you create a filter for that? And so I'm constantly saying to myself I know lots of different audio engineers that specialize right, and I think that's great, but they're all independent, right? And so I can't be like, oh gosh, well, who knows Twisted Wave or who knows Studio One, or who knows? 

11:48 And I'll think about it. What's great is you're like a one-stop shop, because now you've built yourself up a team. What's great is you're like a one-stop shop because now you've built yourself up a team, and I love this, because when I hired you in the beginning it was just you and you're I mean, you're busy back then and I love how you've like I mean, talk about being a boss, right. You've actually grown your little empire there and created a team of really amazing people that work for you, that have great skills and very specific skills. Speak to that a little bit. 

12:14 - George Whittam (Guest) It's been a dream for a really long time to expand beyond myself. It started probably 12, 13 years ago in New York City. I knew I couldn't be in New York City that often and I had a few clients in New York and I thought, god, it'd be a no-brainer to have somebody else backing me up here in Manhattan. I actually had interviews in Borders bookstores with people that responded to ads, sat down, interviewed people and onboarded some folks and it just turned out that, one, maybe it was too soon to do it and two, it wasn't enough demand, because at that time it was a different time. But New York it was almost 100% studio town. Right, all the gigs were in studios because they're all over the place, they're all like walking or a subway ride away. So New York was a different environment. 

13:05 So flash forward now quite a few years and I decided, with the new website that I had built by Skills Hub a couple of years ago, that it was finally time to properly expand the team. And now that I have a system built, an infrastructure, a booking system, the whole thing that allows me to essentially infinitely expand, I can build it as big as I want. I finally had the tools and everything in place to do that, and so we have that. Now you can go onto the website. Let's say you need help with Adobe Audition. You can see who is available that is actually an Adobe Audition expert and then you'll see their availability and you can book into the system right then and there and get help with someone that actually knows what they're doing. I realized after a while there's a certain point where I don't necessarily learn and retain new information the way I used to. I think that's just life, that's just age, right? 

14:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, there's so much now. 

14:04 - George Whittam (Guest) And there's so much more. 

14:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I know you're like right Anne. 

14:07 - George Whittam (Guest) Right, but I get that I totally get that. 

14:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But think about this what I really love. What I really love is, again and again, this is the VO Boss podcast. So I really like to always relate things to how you can really be a boss, and I think all of us voice actors are bosses, obviously in our own right, and I think we really need to look for ways that we can grow and expand. Right and it's not an easy thing, right, it's a scary thing how can you scale? How can you provide more services for your clients so that your business can move forward successfully? And you are such a great example of I mean, not everybody that's a voice actor, is an audio engineer and they're going to scale their businesses in the way that you did, but it's all relative right, as voice actors, how can you scale your business? And so if you think outside of the box and you think about what can you do that's efficient as a voice actor, right, maybe you don't like technology, maybe you don't understand your computer, and I'm saying there's a certain element that we have to be technologically adept, but you can consider outsourcing these things as a voice actor so that you yourself can scale your business, and you've offered this great place for people to have all kinds of options, and so it's not just like a one-shot deal. 

15:25 George, I need help. You have like 24-7 support, and I know for a fact that you've got emergency tech support, which I know, having worked in technology for how many years prior to voiceover. Technology is awesome until it doesn't work and then people panic, right, and that's when it's almost the most important to have that type of support. And so I'm sure lots of you voice actors have had something happen with your computer, like, and all of a sudden you're at a loss, or something happened in your studio, you're at a loss, and now all of a sudden, do you have a backup? Do you have a way that you can deliver your goods, deliver your product to your client? 

16:01 And I think we all need to really start thinking about how can we outsource, how can we scale, and you've got a great place where, if voice actors don't necessarily love working with technology or learning technology, nor do they have the time right For me. I have no desire to be an audio engineer, I know what I know right, and if I have problems, let's say I'm setting up my new Mac studio. Well, I don't want to spend my entire weekend trying to learn anymore. I mean, I love learning, don't get me wrong but I don't want to right now. That's not an efficient use of my time. 

16:33 So I'd much rather call you and say hey, george, I know you've set up Macs, I know you've done the Apollo on this iOS and I'm running into these problems. Or I know I'm having a problem like with Zoom and then sending my audio through Zoom. How can you help me? So it just makes sense for me, as a boss, right to outsource that. And so make sure, out there, guys, that you have a source, and I highly recommend George a hundred times If you haven't figured it out by now, I'm recommending him a hundred times over. Have a source, have a place that you can go when you run into trouble technology-wise or with your computer, or you want to just learn. You also have educational resources. You have tutorials. Yes, you have one-on-one help. You've just got all those options and I think it just really lends itself. Not only are you showing people how you're a boss and you're scaling your business right. They can scale their business with you. 

17:26 - George Whittam (Guest) Yeah, being a boss is what I've really become now. I was always solopreneuring. In a way I still am, but now I do actually have people that look to me for getting paid, look for me for getting jobs, look for me for communication and support and actually training. The content we create for you guys we use internally to train our own team. I want more of our team to be comfortable with the Universal Audio Apollo. I've been encouraging them to watch the content we already have. Everybody who does work for me gets complete carte blanche access to my entire library of content right, so they all can learn. 

18:03 I want to work with you, then I would love to have you. I mean, honestly, the point is that we've built the network, we've built the system, we have the infrastructure. Now it's just a matter of what's the next thing a voice actor needs, or what's the next thing podcasters need, what's the next thing people that do media appearances need, studios, people that need to do executives, c-suite folks what do they all need? And we're trying to eventually fill these different gaps right, and so my role now is more of a boss, more of a CEO, more of a director, even beyond. I spend way more hours of my day doing director, boss, ceo work than I do actual build time nowadays, and that's just how things have morphed. But it's great. 

18:52 I love finding out that somebody got a service from one of our team and I didn't even know about it. That's the coolest thing ever. Oh, you helped that guy. Awesome, I had no idea. That's great. That means things are working. I don't have to micromanage everything, and so that's been a huge thrill for me, and it's just allowed us to be so much more helpful to more people. 

19:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's such a relief. I know my own business. When you said about micromanaging, and in reality, you know, we talk all the time about voice actors, we're solopreneurs, we wear all the hats, but now's the time to really start thinking about, okay, what is the most efficient use of my time? Right, and I want you bosses to really open your minds out to thinking that a lot of people they get stuck in this whole thought process that, oh, I can't afford to hire somebody. But in reality, if you sat down and you marked what is your price per hour? Right, how much money do you make when you're doing voiceover, versus how much money are you making when you're trying to, like, do the billing yourself? Right? 

19:50 - George Whittam (Guest) I'm so glad you mentioned the hourly thing because a while ago somebody made that clear to me. 

19:55 There's the hourly rate that you charge retail, right? I know what my hourly rate is per hour. If you want to consult with me directly, it's $360 an hour. Whoa huge number. Wow, that sounds really crazy. That's not what I make per hour. What I make per hour is actually what I made last year. Subtract my expenses, take my net revenue right and divide that by I don't remember the magic number is whatever. It is 52 weeks a year, you know. And then you basically whittle it down to what your actual hourly wage actually is and you start to realize like, oh my gosh, that's what my actual time is worth. And so you're going oh, now it is worth spending $25 an hour for a virtual assistant or somebody because I'm actually worth $50 an hour. 

20:45 You know what I mean. So that's. It's really good to know that. 

20:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, exactly. 

20:50 And I think that we need to look outside of, like, the numbers that are just spent, because somebody might say, oh, I spent a thousand dollars on this microphone. 

21:00 If you figure out what your value is per hour, right, and you're doing tasks that I always say, don't bring you joy a certain standard where, if I want to be able to direct somebody right that I'm going to outsource stuff to, I need to learn enough about it so that I can direct intelligently, right. 

21:20 I know, you know, if somebody's saying to me well, it's taking me five hours to do this, when I know, in fact, maybe it shouldn't be taking five hours, because when you become a boss and you start employing people, you have to be concerned about, okay, what's the value of your employees and what are they bringing you, what are you paying them right and how efficient can they be? And I think also, george, it becomes where you now have to inspire the people that work for you to want to do their best for you, that they want to help move your company forward, and to do that, you've got to pay them a fair rate you definitely do and you've got to inspire them with things that they like to do right so that they join the team right. 

22:01 And that's a whole other set of boss skills that's a whole other set of boss skills which I love. 

22:06 - George Whittam (Guest) The amazing person I brought in to do our customer service and actually kind of act as a bit of an assistant to me as well. She also is a graphic designer. So when I realized that she was getting these skills, she was literally studying and I said you know what? Let's try some things, let's get you doing some more creative endeavors, and I'm paying her more for that. I said you know, track your time when you're doing graphic design, when you're creating our thumbnails and our promotional content for the socials and our webinars, and that's a different rate. You tell me what you think is a fair rate for your graphic design and then you have a rate for all the other general work and she breaks up her billing that way and so she's getting paid better for that work and that's going to be much more fulfilling for her because it's creative stuff and I think it's been working out really well. You know, my biggest fear is her going away. If she goes, away. 

23:02 That's going to be a giant pain in my neck to find another person like her Finding good. 

23:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's going to be very difficult, so I want to keep her around. 

23:12 - George Whittam (Guest) It's a delicate balance and I trust her. It sure is, you know, but it's a tricky one. The more you rely on outside help, the more you start realizing you need to make sure what will you do if that person needs to be replaced? It's another skill. 

23:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And the people that work for you. They need to be better than you, and I think that's an ego thing for a lot of people. Do you know what I mean it's like? Oh no, I want to do it because I want to have control over it. I mean, I'm a control freak. I know this. I mean it took me a while, but once I started realizing that when you hire people who are better than you at the tasks like I'm not a graphic artist, so I want to hire somebody who's amazing at that and then pay them what they're worth, they aren't bitter, they don't feel like, oh, they're just working for pennies, and so they get excited because you want to work with them and collaborate. They get excited about helping you grow your business and you get excited about helping them grow their skills or grow their career as well under you. So I think it's something that bosses out there can really start to think about. 

24:10 How would you expand right? And I think now too, with the technology and with AI and all this talk about the industry and how it's changing, I think technology it's always good to educate yourself on the technology evolve with the technology, those other things that we're talking about in addition to voiceover, like on-camera work, right? Voice actors maybe this is something that you know. You want to present yourself more professionally to your clients. What's involved in a good I don't know webcam or good lighting for your studio and that sort of thing. So that's the sort of thing that you can help them with as well in terms of expanding and broadening their horizons, even outside of voice acting. 

24:51 So I love that you said that you were also delving into on-camera and technology for expanding businesses, because I think voice actors should also consider things like that. I mean, it's something we've talked about on the podcast as well, as we're moving forward along with this technology. What other services can you offer your clients? What other things can you do? Are you going to be making TikTok videos, right? How can you get your message out there? How can you market yourself right so that people know you exist, so they can hire you? And a part of that is getting out there, getting heard, getting seen, and you can help with that. 

25:26 - George Whittam (Guest) And you might also be able to parlay that thing, because now you've become the spokesperson for that channel or that brand or that explainer and if you can now take that ability to create content into a visual medium and you might move beyond just doing voice, if you end up being comfortable on camera. You may not know if you're comfortable on camera until you do it. When I started my first podcast or really web channel, YouTube channel East West On your Body Shop, you can go back and watch episode one. 

25:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh yeah, and I was like a deer in headlights Myself too. 

26:01 - George Whittam (Guest) I got a lot more comfortable on camera. So you know, as I evolve and I start doing more and more interviews and interviewing others and I'm going wow, I'm really comfortable doing this. I've actually really enjoying this. How can I parlay this into a different? So now I'm thinking about speaking engagements and doing speaking roles. 

26:21 I've gotten to teach in a couple of universities now. Wow, I love doing that, so maybe I need to parlay that into another thing. So I'm looking into speaking now. So it's just ever-evolving. If you get stuck in one lane, you can quickly start feeling discouraged. When that one lane that you chose starts grinding to a halt, you really need to be ready to try new stuff Starts getting traffic right and saturated. 

26:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean now I'm just thinking of that, you know, because after the pandemic I mean I had so many people that I think got into voiceover because of the pandemic and now I thought we were saturated before. But there's a lot of people in there. I'm not saying there isn't enough work, voiceover work. However, there's an awful lot of people doing voiceover. So I think it's always healthy for us to consider how we can always grow and always evolve. So I'm going to ask you one last thing, george, before I have to run for the day what would be your best advice that you would give someone out there just getting into the industry? 

27:21 - George Whittam (Guest) Definitely work with a coach that understands the spectrum of what you need to learn in a holistic way. That coach doesn't have to be an expert in every aspect, but the coach should be very aware of that. You need to learn these separate skills right. So someone like Anne, for example. She knows a lot about a lot of things, but she also knows when it's time to get another person involved a demo producer, an expert engineer. 

27:47 Yeah, that's so, so helpful, right, and it's so easy. These days it's almost like getting support is just like dating. It's so easy to just keep swiping right or swiping left. Which one is it? Because you're like well, that was nice, let me try that guy, and I hear that guy's good. Let's try that guy. 

28:03 Hook your wagon to somebody for a while and focus in on what they have to say and learn before you start constantly seeking fresh perspectives. It doesn't mean fresh perspectives are bad, but you really need to focus on one person's methodologies and get behind them and then, after you've done it for a while, consider well, is it the best way? Well, maybe I could learn a new skill, or maybe I have another way to learn this that could save time. I never am offended when a client says I worked with somebody else along the way, but I do get concerned when somebody's pretty new and they've already taken, let's say, consulting from three or four different techs and four or five different coaches, because they're going to have a lot of conflicting or somewhat differing opinions and you're going to get so off base. 

28:51 So find somebody that is well vetted, somebody that has like we have our trusted partners page on our website. Everybody on there is somebody we have worked with and trust. And hook your wagon to somebody like Ann, so you have that one point of focus to help you navigate all of this, and then they can help shut you off into different directions for those specialty things. Otherwise it can feel hopelessly confusing and there's just too much conflicting information out there. So that's the best thing I can say Just find one single point of trust, follow that person, get the advice they can give you and find the expertise in different areas when you need it, and go to georgethetech early and often. Yes. 

29:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, yes, I was just going to say how can people get in touch with you, george the tech? 

29:44 - George Whittam (Guest) You have your landing page right, Absolutely Slash. 

29:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yep, is it slash? Be a boss, my gosh. 

29:50 - George Whittam (Guest) I don't have it memorized. 

29:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I have it like in a link, I think so I'll check it, I'll look it up. 

29:56 I'll put that in the show notes. Yeah, I'll put it in the show notes for services. I do have a nice little link that I can send to you. That will save you some money on your first services with George. So highly recommend. George. It's been so nice to have you and I appreciate you pulling off to the side of the road and being safe and talking with us today, and I'm going to give a great big shout out to IPDTL you too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom and George, it's been so wonderful talking with you. I feel like we should do a series. We should do a whole series with George the Tech. 

30:31 - George Whittam (Guest) We'll do another one in a proper environment when I'm in my home studio, I promise. And, by the way, it's slash AG, so georgethetech slash AG for Ann Ganguza. That'll take you to all the information we have and our discount codes and come and visit us and learn from us. We have so much useful content that's affordable and accessible. So happy to be of service and thank you, ann. Thanks for being so cool, a friend and being always a pleasure to talk to yes. You're a blast to be around. 

31:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I feel the exact same way about you. So thanks so much. All right, bosses, you have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Take care, bye, bye. 

31:13 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.