BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza and Lau Lapides join forces in this episode of the VO Boss Podcast for another installment of their Boss Superpower Series. They tackle a topic often considered taboo in the voice acting industry: voiceover as a hobby.

This discussion explores whether pursuing voice acting without the pressure of a full-time income carries a stigma. The episode delves into concerns about hobbyists "taking away" jobs, examines the true meaning of commitment, and highlights how to embrace a voiceover journey for pure creative joy, whether it's a primary career or a cherished passion. Listeners will discover why being a BOSS means defining success on one's own terms.

00:01 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, it's Anne from VO Boss here. 

00:03 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) And it's George the Tech. We're excited to tell you about the VO Boss. Vip membership, now with even more benefits. 

00:10 - Anne (Host) So not only do you get access to exclusive workshops and industry insights, but with our VIP plus tech tier, you'll enjoy specialized tech support from none other than George himself. 

00:21 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) You got it. I'll help you tackle all those tricky tech issues so you can focus on what you do best Voice acting. It's tech support tailored for voiceover professionals like you. 

00:32 - Anne (Host) Join us guys at VO Boss and let's make your voiceover career soar. Visit voboss.com slash VIP-membership to sign up today. 

00:43 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 

01:02 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with the Boss Superpower Series with the one and only Lau Lapides. 

01:12 - Lau (Guest) Hey, Anne. 

01:13 - Anne (Host) And Lau

01:14 - Lau (Guest) Love being here, as always. Love it, oh, Lau, it's so good to see you. What would a Saturday be without being in the booth with Anne? 

01:22 - Anne (Host) Really, I know, right, I mean it would not be a Saturday, I know right it wouldn't, but sometimes on Saturdays I have other hobbies that I like to do, actually, because now it's actually horse show season and every once in a while I have to go out of the studio and go watch my horse shows, because back in the day. 

01:39 - Lau (Guest) I used to own a couple of horses and that was like a passion and a love of mine. 

01:46 - Anne (Host) Are you a derby girl? Do you get into the Kentucky Derby? I'm not a derby girl, I'm a horse show girl, a jumper. So, yeah, I mean, I can watch a race, but I'm much more enthralled by watching horses jump over things. 

01:56 But speaking of hobbies and alternate passions and other passions we talk about voiceover as a full-time career all the time. Passions we talk about voiceover as a full-time career all the time, but there's a taboo topic about voiceover as a hobby. Maybe we should discuss that, laura. How do you feel about that? Is there a stigma around voiceover as a hobby in our industry? 

02:19 - Lau (Guest) I think there is and it took me a while to actually let it come to the front of my brain that that was a real thing that people were distancing themselves from the notion of well, I'm in it to win it. I have to do it full time, I have to make a living and I have to do it like now, and the options are really there on the table for you, whether you would call it a full-time or full-time contractor position, whether it's a part-time and fills the holes in your schedule, in between your other lives, or whether it's a hobby, something creative, something joyful, something you love to do, but it's really not about money. 

03:01 - Anne (Host) Well, okay, so let's just talk about the elephant in the room, right? Those that do voiceover as a hobby, right, could potentially be seen as taking away jobs from those people who do this for a living. And so those are the people that I think I see other people talk about them in different groups and Facebook groups and forums about how, oh, are you doing voiceover for a career or a hobby? Because if it's a hobby, then poo-poo, and so there's usually kind of a look of disdain upon those people doing it as a hobby. But I like how we're entertaining the thought of it because, I mean, there's lots of reasons why you want to get invested in voiceover, and not all the time is it to make tons of money and pay the mortgage. I mean, sometimes maybe you're in retirement and you just want a creative outlet, or maybe not even retirement, you just want a creative outlet. And do you feel, Lau, that this is taking away jobs from those of us who do it full time? What are your thoughts on that? 

04:01 - Lau (Guest) No, in fact I got to be honest with you, Anne that didn't even come to my mind. It didn't come to my mind because I feel like best person wins the game. 

04:10 And if you're in the game to win it and you're serious about it, there's going to be work for you, there's going to be jobs for you. To think about people who are not earning money or living as taking away your work to me is very strange, because it's like, well, it's a capitalistic market. It's like I have to train, I have to have my tools in place, I have to have my protocols and etiquette, I have to know everything that I can know to compete. But can I control the market? Can I control who's in the market? No Right, absolutely. That's true of every industry. I mean, how many times? Let's be honest. 

04:43 - Anne (Host) And that's a really good point, laura, wait, wait, I got an honest point for you. 

04:46 - Lau (Guest) How many times and listeners, be honest with yourself have you had a problem with your light bulb and your Uncle Harry, who's a retired electrician maybe, is going to fix it for you? Okay, well, you say, of course, let him fix it, sure. Well, he said, of course, let him fix it, sure, I don't even have to pay him. That's really great, wonderful. Well, the reality is is he took away a job from an electrician who's on the market right now. Who would love to get that job? Sure. But the reality is it's like we're built on relationships. We're built on the history of knowing people. 

05:19 So not everything is going to be about a competitive job. 

05:21 - Anne (Host) Such a great point. I mean and we talk about it in casting all the time I mean, sometimes they choose to go a different direction. Well, what is that other direction? Well, maybe their niece or nephew does voiceover, or maybe it's a friend of theirs that wants to give it a shot, and so, in reality, we don't really have control over that aspect of it. As to the decision of the casting, Again it's like who gets the job? 

05:46 I mean is it always the best that gets the job? No, not really. No, sometimes it's just the most convenient or the one that's the cheapest. 

05:53 And that is not necessarily our decision or under our control, so I love that you brought that up. I'd like to discuss the fact that I've had students who have tried voiceover and they've tried different genres. Of course you know I have specific genres that I work on and they've decided. You know what. I'm not so sure that voiceover is for me because they find out maybe it's not quite as enjoyable as they thought, or maybe I'm given homework, so maybe they're like I don't want to do Anne homework, so you know what I don't think I'm going to do voiceover anymore, but sometimes you don't know until you explore the path of creative journey. 

06:29 - Lau (Guest) You just don't know. 

06:30 - Anne (Host) And then all of a sudden, it's like you know what? I don't love it as much as I thought I was going to and therefore, maybe they have a great voice and we would be, maybe, as coaches, saying oh my God, you have a fabulous voice and you're natural at it and maybe they're just like you know. Okay, if I get asked to do it, so I mean there are all sorts of reasons. 

06:47 - Lau (Guest) It isn't an all or nothing type of a trade. And besides, if you equate it to any other arts that are out there, like, does that mean I can't paint a painting without selling it? Does that mean I can't create a pot without selling the ceramics? Does that mean I can't dance without getting a job at dancing? It sounds kind of silly when you put it that way, but a lot of us consider it not just a trade but an art form. So to do it as an art form for the creative force of strengthening your voice and communicating and doing all the things that we do in voiceover, I think it's a missed opportunity to not do it because you think it is only meant to be a job and make money. It's also an art form. 

07:31 - Anne (Host) And again, yeah, I'm a big believer about it's all about the journey, really not about the end point. Sometimes there's a lot of self-discovery in voiceover because it is a creative. Actually, I think all jobs are creative for the most part. Or they can be made creative or they can be thought of as creative. You can construct them as creative if you want, and so some are just a little more. I would say they lean more towards the creative field where you have more freedom of it. But I think a lot of times it's a journey and that's a wonderful journey to be on. I think we all go through some sort of a creative journey in our lives. 

08:08 Absolutely and this is one that can really help you get in tune with yourself, because it is something that is directly in tune with ourselves, our voice. 

08:17 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, and not only is it a fun challenge, but it is just that it can be just pure fun. If you get in the booth and you're doing, let's say, an animation character and you love character work, you may be doing that for the sheer benefit of doing it, the process of doing it, sharing with others that you've done it, listening back, enjoying the fun factor of it. You may or may not book that, that may or may not be a job for you, but it is part of that. You used the word journey that you can really have in yourself for other things Like what if you're a teacher? What if you're an educator? What? 

08:53 if you are someone who is, or a therapist, or even a doctor, well, you would take these pop moments in your life and you can use them as part of your story, to connect with your audience, to connect with your customers, whoever they are. 

09:09 - Anne (Host) Absolutely, and you know our journeys as we go along and I talk about this frequently is I use every part of my life experience in voiceover, and so voiceover is also a part of my life experience, and so I can use that in many ways other than just voiceover. I can, just as you mentioned, to be a better communicator, to really learn more about myself and to evolve, and so I really think that voiceover as a hobby is absolutely something we can entertain. And hey look, who's the pot calling the kettle black? Is that the phrase? 

09:40 I have lots of different divisions of my business because I follow lots of different passions and that doesn't mean that voiceover is part-time for me. I mean, my main function here is voiceover. But there are lots of passions that I follow and, for example, my little foray into fashion. There's lots of fashion influencers out there that do it full-time. That might think, oh, who's this girl? Every once in a while I see a post from her and she's not really a fashion. I don't even like to say the word influencer. I just say I want to share my passion for fashion and hey, if I can make a little side income that's cool, but if not, it's not a big deal. I love the creative aspect of curating outfits. 

10:19 - Lau (Guest) To me, what it comes down to is the gestalt of how much just as human beings, unfortunately we still love labeling. 

10:26 We're very much designer in that way. We want to label people. We want to label what they do, what they have, what they are. We want to type them quickly so that it's easy for us to know oh, this is the girl that does that, this is the guy that does that, whatever. And the labeling can be very detrimental to us, because I see this all the time, with new voiceover talent coming in and actors coming in saying, oh, but this coach told me I need to do that and I need to be invested in this way and I need to be put in this net. And I said well, wait a second. 

10:57 That is someone's interpretation of what this career is, based on their own subjective frame of reference. It has nothing to do with you. You've got to figure out your life. You've got to figure out your level of commitment, how you feel about it. In copy, we call it point of view. What's your point of view about this? It's sort of like we want to come in and it makes it easy for us if someone can label us. If they can label us, then we can follow the cookie cutter path of what we're supposed to do. But it's not that kind of career. Artistic careers are not that kind of career. 

11:33 - Anne (Host) And again along those lines, is there a path to being a part-time voiceover talent? Is it a requirement that they get training, that they get a demo, that they do all of those things? That typically what we would suggest and recommend that they do for full-time? 

11:49 - Lau (Guest) I honestly don't think anything is a requirement. I think it's only a requirement if you're trying to reach a particular level of your craft or career, and then you kind of have to do the due diligence of research. Oh well, if I'm going to use this as a career, then I know I need a demo of this kind. But if I'm not, if that's not my objective and I'm honest about that, I feel really good about that I may or may not need that, I may or may not. Right, it's a different level. I mean, a hobbyist has a different level of everything compared to a professional, sure, and the expectations can be very different as well. 

12:26 - Anne (Host) Well, I'll tell you something that my level of commitment to back. When I was younger, riding horses right. It wasn't a job for me. I wanted it ultimately someday to be a job. 

12:36 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) You loved it, but I loved it. 

12:38 - Anne (Host) I followed my passion and I spent hours. I mean hours and hours and hours. I mean thousands of hours, tens of thousands of hours riding and practicing, and so I don't think you can put a label on oh, you're part-time, so it's a DIY demo. They're not training, they're getting their instruction on the internet. I hear a lot of talk like that and it's really it's negative talk. I'd like to say hey, guys, if you want to explore voiceover, if you have other passions that you want to pursue and you just want to do voiceover part-time, it's absolutely okay. There's no straight path to get there. There's no. You have to do this, you must do this to become a part-time voiceover talent. There's only recommendations on what might work for your journey to evolve and to get better. 

13:24 - Lau (Guest) Absolutely. I think that's true of probably every profession that's out there. I think it applies to anything that you want to do. It's like as you move up the ladder, as you go level to level, you learn more about what the expectations are, what the industry standards are, what your competition has and utilizes to book work. But to come into it and to have this false or artificial notion of, oh, I should be doing this, I want to be, that Everyone told me I should be doing this. Well, listen, do you want to be in the cool kids group? Do you want to be in the cool clicky? You know everyone is cool or do you want to be true to yourself? 

14:04 - Anne (Host) Right Like do you want to be? 

14:05 - Lau (Guest) literally true to your own voice is the question. Yeah, absolutely. You can have many experts and professionals helping you along the way, but it's not about being in the cool kids club. 

14:15 - Anne (Host) Yeah, and you know, what's so wonderful about that is that it's freeing, right? If I think about my alternative hobbies, that I do, right, I don't care what people think about me when I'm doing my hobby, I mean, and that allows me to experience more joy. I think Sometimes, oh, I've got a dedicated path to a full-time career and therefore here's what I should do in order to achieve that path, and then I can be judged. But when I decide I'm going to just do this for my own fun, for the creative journey of it, guess what? I tend to not think about what other people think of me and that, oh my gosh, as full-time voiceover talent, if we could, as actors, if we could just employ that attitude where you don't necessarily care what other people are saying about you, especially if it's negative, then I think that's a wonderful thing. 

15:03 - Lau (Guest) You know, it brings us back to kids being kids, and like I don't mean kids at 10. I mean no, I mean younger, I mean like the under five crowd. It's like they're just not aware of what someone else thinks in regards to their playtime. 

15:20 They're so invested in their imagination and their moments in their mind that they can shift and pivot to. I can be a king, I can be a dog, I can be a truck, I can be right, Like the possibilities of the magic. What if right? I can be anything I want to be and I don't have to worry about the outcomes of it, Like we're not into outcomes yet at that stage of the game. If we could have a moment of going back to that and just honestly play and be present and enjoy those moments without worrying about the outcomes, what people are saying, what people are thinking, then you're really going to free yourself to do your best work, yeah. 

16:00 - Anne (Host) It just makes me think of like the judgment sometimes that I see that has passed on a part-time voiceover or voiceover people that are not necessarily studying under a coach or they're doing their own demo or they're auditioning for jobs that pay low. And if you're doing it as a hobby and typically if it's a hobby you're not always needing to make money from it. It's really just again, it's your creative expression, it's your enjoyment, your joy. You're not necessarily having to make a huge salary off of it. So then we kind of get to the point where, okay, are they bottom feeding the market? Are they bringing down the value of what it is that we do? Full time Lau. 

16:44 - Lau (Guest) I don't know how to answer that, because I think the world is so large. Do full-time Lau? I don't know how to answer that, because I think the world is so large and the compartmentalization of all the different genres, all the different budgets, all the different potential clients are vast. They're huge. So I don't think there's one answer to that. 

16:59 One of the biggest problems that I see as a coach is people coming in who are really hobbyists, who are treating it like they're going to make a living at it and really starting to unpeel the onion and decipher. Well, wait a second, can we be honest about this? This is not your career. Why? Because I'm looking at the time you commit, I'm looking at your level of investment, I'm looking at your strategy. I'm looking at your strategy. I'm looking at your talent. I'm looking at all these things that are the pivotal markers of a career person. 

17:33 Right, they're not there yet. You're still in hobby mode. Do you realize that? Right, like, well, wait, can't I write this off on my taxes? Can't I get all of that? I said yes, if you work. Yeah, yeah, absolutely yes. If it becomes a business for you, have income against it, right? So I think the bigger issue in my mind not to divert away from your original question, but the bigger issue is that gap in people's minds between what they think they should be doing and want to be doing and what they're actually doing. And what they're actually doing quite oftentimes is what a hobbyist would do. 

18:09 - Anne (Host) And then there's a lot of people I know that are like well, I want to be able to pay for my investment. So if they're coaching or if they're, even if they're doing it part-time and they're going to get a demo, they're like, well, I want to work so I can pay for this demo. And that is where I think that gray area is, because it's difficult for people unless they have a certain level of talent that's just innately without coaching or without having a great produced demo, because, you know, I always put my stamp of approval on that, you know, being transparent as a coach and demo producer. But there's a lot of people who don't necessarily. They want to be able to work so that they can pay for their investment in their hobby, because hobbies can be expensive, right, hobbies can be expensive. 

18:55 - Lau (Guest) Exactly, exactly. But I asked the question and I always put it in another context because when you're too close to something, you oftentimes can't see it right. So if I say, okay, that makes sense. Now, if you're going to become attorney and you're going to be in Lau school for three or four years, why don't you work as an attorney and make the money so you? 

19:14 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) can pay for Lau school. They say well, that's kind of crazy. 

19:17 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) They're not going to let me do that. 

19:18 - Lau (Guest) I haven't passed the bar. I don't have any credits. I said right, Are you going to work as a dentist as you go through dental? It's the same thing, Exactly. 

19:27 - Anne (Host) That mindset, that's a great analogy. 

19:29 - Lau (Guest) I'm like this should be easy for me to do. I should be able to get it so I can pay for my coaching. Say no, the investment in the education comes first. Yeah, and then you go out and look for the work, yeah, and it's like any good hobby. 

19:41 - Anne (Host) I mean gosh, so many hobbies I had. But when, I think about when I was a young girl riding horses right? Well, I had to pay for my lessons, I had to pay for my own saddle, I had to pay for my riding outfit, I had to pay entry fees into the shows that I was competing in, and so my hobby was competitive. My hobby was I really dove deep and it was expensive, and my parents didn't let me forget that. But, I was so fortunate. 

20:08 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I always tell people. 

20:08 - Anne (Host) well, I worked at the stable so I could work off my lessons, and so that took care of maybe a portion of the payment. 

20:15 But my parents knew that I was invested because I was like, oh, and I spent all my time at the stables. I mean I shoveled enough manure to get some good background and investment into my passion, yeah. But I mean, in reality, I mean I invested as much, if not more, I think, into my hobby and then kind of knowing, when I got old enough to go to college, well then I had to go study for a real job. 

20:39 But times have changed now right A little bit, so it's just gotten to the point where I love that I've always been able to follow my passions. Not everybody is there at a young age or can follow their passions throughout their life. I've always been fortunate, I think, that I've had this kind of gut to follow my passions in lots of different ways and figure out how I can still pay the bills while I do that, but you were very always pragmatic in understanding that you needed a survival job, exactly you needed to be hustling throughout. 

21:09 - Lau (Guest) So, whether it was in your field or whether it was something totally unrelated, that was like a given to you. You were taught that you understood the work ethic of that, so that, I think, separates the hobbyists from the professionals in that. 

21:22 - Anne (Host) But the good thing is is I feel like I have always been able to follow a passion where the money can help me pay the bills. And so, however, I fixated on that passion, like, for example, I was good at school, right, so I went to college and I studied engineering because people told me I should, right, but then I got into a job where I was designing creative, three-dimensional artificial hip and knee prostheses, and that creative like, oh, I got to be an engineer and that creativity was like it was my passion, right, following a creative, following something that allowed me to be creative and then ultimately getting into teaching. 

21:58 After that right, sharing my love of I'm so excited about this, let me share it. And that was following that passion. And then I was able to teach. And so I think there are people at different stages of their life that all of a sudden say, oh, I need a creative outlet. Where they haven't really looked at where is their creative outlet now. 

22:18 And I think people always have a creative outlet. They just don't expand upon it if they can or think about it in terms of it being a creative outlet. But at any given stage of life they get to a point where they say I want to be more creative. That's the majority of people that come to me that say they want to learn voiceovers. Gosh, you know, I'm just looking for something. I hate my job or I'm just looking for something that allows me to expand my creativity and that is following a passion. And at whatever stage you're at the passion and at whatever stage you're at, I don't think it matters whether you decide to do that full-time or part-time. It is a journey of creative experience for you. 

22:52 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, I just think one of the bigger mistakes that I see happen and it happens all the time as I meet people is that they mistake the idea that they can quit their day job and leave their life and leave everything and just become a full voiceover. 

23:06 Talent and as a contractor. It's just not going to happen that way. It really just isn't. It's not going to happen as any kind of a contractor, let alone this kind of. So you really have to be honest about that. And, like I, have a talent who has worked for a company, an insurance company, for like 10 years or a long time as their spokesperson, as their voiceover. She does nothing else. She does nothing else. She does nothing else. She just had a baby. She'll probably have another baby. She aspires to do more, but in my heart of heart I know she won't. I know she won't because when she hits the level of time and energy that it would take to do that, she stops. She can't go past that and I say be happy, be happy, be fulfilled, be okay with that. If that's what you can do and what you want to accomplish, don't keep pushing for the moon and the stars when the reality is is you're not wanting to really do the work to get to the moon and the stars. 

24:05 - Anne (Host) I love that you say that, because some people don't realize it. Some people don't realize it that they don't want to do the work and they say they want to and they, but they don't. But they really don't, they really don't. And here's the deal, guys. I mean, I got out of a corporate job, right. I got out of it and you think oh, it's going to be easy. 

24:23 Right, this should be easy. Now, if you're performing and you're being the actor and it feels easy to you because I want to make a distinction here and it feels easy, well, you've probably put in the hours and you're definitely in that moment where you are acting and it seems like it's easy. But in reality the amount of hours you had to put in probably to get there may or may not have been easy. That's right. When it becomes easy and it feels good, then you know you're in that creative moment right where you're expressing your creativity. But to get to the moments where you can do that more often than you have to actually run the business because we talk about that's the work. 

25:02 A lot of the work that has to go into it is the business aspect of it, which is why we have this podcast right. There's the whole business aspect, which requires more work than I ever put into my corporate job and I put in a lot of work in my corporate job. I worked three jobs, probably overtime, but I put more work into this full-time voice acting gig than I ever put into my corporate job and I put a lot of work in my corporate job. 

25:27 - Lau (Guest) Because you love it. Because you love it, there's a passion, there's an honesty about it. You love it, you want to do it right. It's there for you. I got to tell you I'm a little jealous sometimes of the lives lived gone by that I had as well, where we were doing like community theater, we were doing things that had no money involved, no end game involved, other than the actual experience of doing it and just loving it, just like being, and we were rehearsing every night. We would do it for three, four months and then we would do one weekend of shows you know what I mean and I say, oh wow. 

26:04 Sometimes I really miss those days, Anne, because that was the most honest, yeah most honest moments of I want to do this, I love doing this, I love being with the people and I'm doing it. That has ever been in many lives. Once we get tainted a little bit with oh, I have to make, money, I have to make money. 

26:26 - Anne (Host) We got to pay the bills right. We got to pay the bills. If we didn't have to pay bills in our lifetime, wouldn't it be nice. We've got to pay the bills right, we've got to pay the bills. If we didn't have to pay bills in our lifetime, wouldn't it be nice. What would? Our world look like if we didn't have to pay bills, If we could just do what it was that we felt was our calling and have creative exploration. 

26:42 - Lau (Guest) I also think though, if we're being honest, we do use money as a marker. 

26:46 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) As a motivator. It's a motivator too it's incentive. 

26:49 - Lau (Guest) It also feels really good when you earn money for something you love to do or do. Well, it feels really good. There's a rightness about it. Should it be all about that? Probably not. Yeah, probably not, because I think you can lose the luster very easily of why you came into it in the first place. 

27:09 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I feel like the money is a good motivator. And it's interesting because I say to people like for me, I love the business of voiceover, because I love to see how I can make money, like in many different ways. And it's not necessarily that I well, I love money. I can say I love money but it's not important that I have to have a ton of it, but it's the creative challenge of making money. That's a whole other show, Anne. That's a whole—we've got to do a show on that. 

27:35 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) How much do you love? 

27:36 - Lau (Guest) money, because I'm telling you, this is like one of our top ten taboo lists that we're creating. Yeah, absolutely, the hobbyist on the taboo list Money. It's okay to love money on the taboo list. There's probably other stuff too that we'll think of along the way, but it's like we're trying to dispel this. It's not even a myth. It's true that you are made to feel this way in our society and it's not accurate. You don't have to feel that guilt. You don't have to feel bad about loving to do something and not wanting to make money at it, absolutely. 

28:08 - Anne (Host) Or even if you want to make money at it, you don't have to feel bad. And so you guys bosses out there. You don't have to do full-time voiceover to be a boss. You can absolutely pursue part-time voiceover and be a boss and be the best boss that you can. So great conversation, laura. 

28:26 - Lau (Guest) I love that we fixed that one. 

28:28 - Anne (Host) Yeah right, that was a goodie. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. See you next time. 

28:44 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.