Voices of Deconversion

Gidday Listeners!

My first guest from Australian shares his fascinating journey out of Christianity. 

He was raised in a typical Methodist Christian home in a small Township in Australia. His dad was a brickmaker and his mother a homemaker. He was raised going to Sunday school. His dad attended prayer groups during the week and his mom went to women's church groups. 

As a young teenager he was listening to a Fundamentalist preacher when a blasphemous thought entered his mind. Instantly he knew he was damned and going to hell. He couldn't dare tell anyone, as this may confirm his terrible reality. He kept all this to himself. He lived his day-to-day life, but every so often was reminded of his terrible fate. This thought tormented him for years.

A few years later he's invited to a meeting with the Christadelphians. As a Methodist, he was viewed as a damnable heretic. Conversely, he viewed them that way too. Following an intense discussion he has a realization and finally finds relief.

I loved his message to embrace the things we don't know. This is a huge part of what brings me peace as an atheist too. It's ok to not know or understand everything. It's the mystery of life that brings wonder and awe. It also leaves us with so much to discover in our world.

In difficult times, we gather comfort from something Roland reminded me near the end of our talk: We're in it together!

*UPDATE-Matt Recently Became Christian Again.  A few months after we recorded this interview, Matt became Christian again. I'm leaving the interview up, but wanted listeners to know in case they were to reach out to Matt.

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Matt was born in Wichita, Kansas and lived there until about age 7.

He was raised non-denominational/charismatic mostly in the Assemblies of God churches and had full on believed by age 5. He had great parents and never had too many issues in the church. However, he always had a great fear of hell even as a Christian.

He was in and out of church most of his life until his first divorce. Then went to bible college at a very charismatic school in 2009. He began seeing cracks and flaws in that particular doctrine and started pulling back. He had gotten his minister's license close to graduation and upon graduation went straight to the mission field in Asia in 2011/12. He worked with the underground church in China and the Burmese refugees I’m Thailand.

He finally began having more questions over the years until he couldn’t do it anymore because of how it was just messing his head up. 10,000 religions, 40,000 plus denominations within Christianity alone, good people going to hell, simply for not believing. He hated the way Christians viewed & spoke to the LGBTQ community and other faiths like they all couldn’t just be people, but had to be a mission and Christians had to have an agenda. He felt that devalued all groups outside of Christendom as less than human. He hated it.

Later he had a stint in rehab for alcohol and began reading books like the wisdom of insecurity from Alan Watts and Thomas Paine’s the Age of Reason. He felt like he'd found freedom in Deism. He was there for a bit, then went back out of fear. That didn’t last long. 

The full shift happened less than a year ago and now he is an Atheist. He said he truly feels born again and free.

URGENT: If you live in Wisconsin please contact your state representative to express support for the Clergy Mandatory Reporter Act & the Child Victims Act. 

These bills are being considered right now. If your representative is Republican, it's even more important. Republican support is low for these bills, but is critical. Anything you can do is very much appreciated.

Now, to introduce today's guest...

Debbie McNulty is a lifelong resident of Wisconsin. She attended a United Pentecostal church from about age 7 to 17. She was exposed to sexual abuse and ideas which caused serious religious trauma. 

Now she works to help others cope with their trauma and raise awareness about the organization she grew up in. Her story is such an important story to tell.

Debbie is an amazing person and ends the conversation with such a hopeful message! 

Debbie's Blog: https://survivingchurchandchildhood.wordpress.com/about/

Cap Times article: https://madison.com/ct/news/local/govt-and-politics/lawmakers-push-bills-to-end-statute-of-limitations-on-lawsuits/article_25165c22-1475-5752-84ce-bef5a81153d2.html

What an amazing story!

Rebecca grew up in a cult-like Christian church called the World Wide Church of God. Her particular congregation was quite small and at one point only consisted of around 20 people.

They celebrated Jewish holy days, but adopted their own meaning. They kept a version of Kosher as well. They had very peculiar beliefs about becoming gods one day and having to slay sinners when the resurrection occurred. 

In such a small church there weren't many children her age. Rebecca became very close to her friend Linda and Linda's family. She even referred to Linda's mom as Aunt Kathy. In a sudden and tragic way, Rebecca loses her friend Linda and Linda's parents.

Tragedy sends Rebecca running toward God. She embraces her faith wholeheartedly. She decides not to curse, minimizes the media she consumes and dives into purity culture. She was as devout as it gets for a teenager.

When she goes to college, the demands of piety become too much. Personal research and a class at her Catholic college begin to change what has always been a fundamental part of Rebecca's life.

You have to hear this story!

He's always wanted to help people. When he became a strong Christian, it was saving people from the lake of fire. If Hell was real, Wiley was compelled to do everything in his power to save people from it.

He would stand outside ATMs on busy Friday nights preaching to people. He was attracted to an aggressive form of Christianity. Having exactly the right doctrine was very important to him. So much so, that he and his wife later struggled to find the right church. 

He wouldn't marry his wife unless she agreed to wear dresses and not celebrate Christmas, as it's a pagan celebration. She eventually agreed.

Later Wiley hears a podcast host pose a question for Christians. The host asks if Christians could admit they might possibly be wrong. When the podcast host proclaims that Christians never will admit this, Wiley thinks "challenge accepted".

His faith is tested and then his marriage. He faces questions about faith with transparency. He also decides to face OCPD (Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder) and PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) in an honest, open way. He's a courageous human being and I'm so glad he shared his story with us.

Amanda is realistic about life's difficulties, but also very hopeful. She wears her heart on her sleeve and hopes her story will help others going through similar challenges.

I loved her wise words about living with mental illness and how, although better off today, she still has ups and downs. She's a kindhearted person with a great sense of humor. I loved getting to chat with her. Her story is such an important one to tell.

Amanda is a newly deconverted Christian that wonders where her prayers went for the 16 years she was a Christian, she describes herself as a multiracial undomesticated goddess but understands she’s a work in progress. Amanda was raised in an emotionally neglectful household and experienced sexual abuse from a family member. She committed her life to God as a way to escape abuse and to find love. Suicide was a common theme as she struggled with undiagnosed mental illnesses. She wants others to seek help with depression and anxiety when it comes up because it can be dangerous for those to go undiagnosed. During a mental health crisis last year she realized that God was not the answer and that she needed help for depression. During that time she was also diagnosed with PTSD. Since leaving Christianity she’s been freed from the guilt and shame associated with religion and now sees the world differently. This allows her to enjoy life, laugh more, and watch Game of Thrones. She is a mother to dynamic twin boys and a wife to a strong, adventurous man. She enjoys being outdoors but not exercising, she enjoys reading only for pleasure, she enjoys watching her children laugh and play but not fight, she loves game nights, good food, and rum punch drinks. She also aspires to be a comedian. She wants others to be unencumbered by the fear of what others think and to reach out when they need help. She wants to be a safe place for herself and others.

I don't think I've met anyone who was as committed a Christian at such a young age as Jeremy. He understood his faith so well as a 7 year old that his friends at daycare wanted him to debate an adult atheist! At home he was telling his father he wanted to preach. By 10 years of age he was giving altar calls. This was a child who loved the Bible and lived his faith. Things continue like this into college.

One night during a church service Jeremy attended, the preacher decided to put her faith into action. She called forward a blind man for healing. Everyone expected a miracle, but after a while nothing occurred. The man was not healed. Jeremy was troubled by the experience. This was a turning point.

When Jeremy eventually accepts he's an atheist, he has to tell his fiancé, father and pastor at his church. These were conversations that would test his most important relationships. 

He's come a long way and recently graduated from college. I had a great time talking with him and enjoyed a few laughs along the way.

Dave was recently diagnosed with ALS and has been given 2 to 5 years to live. He has been going around the country and on podcasts speaking about his experience. Today Dave joins me to share what his life focus has been since the diagnosis.

How Christian friends and secular friends respond to Dave's news has been very different. I found this really interesting. Dave quit his job and has been living his best life now. He is writing his own story, as he puts it. Life is a collection of moments. Life is about allowing ourselves to really capture those moments and enjoy them.

He was an inspiration to talk to and you'll get so much out of this conversation. Carpe the f*cking diem! 

Dave loves connecting with people, feel free to reach out on social media:

https://twitter.com/dwwarnock?fbclid=IwAR0jOvQE83dbYYF4uHdmvDFnGq3y8j1xd0_2GH5xTXbxV81aX46Cl6YxX9c

https://www.facebook.com/DaveWarnock.DyingOutLoud/

Dave speaks at the First Unitarian Society of Minneapolis on July 14, 2019. To all my Minnesota listeners, go check it out :)

https://www.facebook.com/events/2105868036370343/

What a great conversation!

Dana brings such wonderful insight into her life experiences. It was a pleasure hearing her fascinating story. 

We discuss some difficult, but important topics today. Child abuse, mental illness, substance abuse, abusive relationships and the fixation on sex by male church authorities. 

Dana was raised in a evangelical baptist church and home in California. She was homeschooled from Kindergarten though 6th grade and survived child abuse until she left her hometown to pursue academic training for missionary work. She completed several mission trips in preparation for full time ministry before concluding she could not participate in the field. She de-converted from Christianity in her 20’s and began working to help others do the same by hosting a support group in Chicago and being outspoken about her experiences on social media and in an interview with the Chicago Tribune in 2013. Dana has a Biblical Studies degree from New Tribes Bible Institute and a B.A. in Applied Linguistics from Moody Bible Institute. She received her Masters in Special Education from University of Illinois Chicago. She is a political activist in her community and a teacher, tutor and therapist to children with diverse needs. She actively seeks to help abolish white supremacy and misogyny. She is currently writing a book on de-conversion, specifically from the view of intersectional feminism.

@somestarstuff on twitter

[email protected]

I was so impressed with Misty's kindness, strength and perspective.

At 4 years old Misty gets a virus, which leads to a social anxiety disorder called Selective Mutism. This prevents Misty from being able to speak. She is only able to speak with her parents and brother, but not her older sisters. Misty copes with this through most of childhood. She spent many days playing by herself and being, as she put it "in her head".

As early as 11 years old she notices depression. By her senior year in high school, it gets worse. Exposure to an atheist cousin has an impact, but she feels a calling to be a nun.

Her years experiencing selective mutism pave the way to her calling as a cloistered nun, taking a vow of silence. Misty's mom thinks she should be a writer (spoiler alert: she is now a reporter for two newspapers....and she loves it!).

Tragically, her mother is later diagnosed with cancer and not long after passes away. Misty wonders if God wanted her mother to die, since her mother didn't think Misty should be a nun.

Misty learns to grieve without God's help. She grows closer to her father. Her religious and political views change...and it turns out catholic boys aren't necessarily the best boys to date.