Our pilgrim, Dante, has asked a very pressing question: How can shades grow thin? How does the immaterial act like the material in the afterlife?

Virgil has given the pilgrim the confidence to ask this question. So Virgil takes the first crack at an answer. Problem is, he offers a whole unsatisfying answer and then turns the discussion over to Statius.

This passage is a curious introduction to Statius's coming discourse on embryology. Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through the emotional vibe established before we get to the intellectual and doctrinal answer ahead.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:42] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXV, lines 22 - 33. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:19] Curiosities in the medieval Florentine in lines 22 - 27.

[06:33] Virgil's two inadequate answers to the pilgrim's question.

[13:11] The wound of the intellect and their relation to poetry.

[17:35] Statius and the limitations of Virgil.

[20:04] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXV, lines 22 - 33.

Dante the pilgrim, Virgil, and Statius begin the ever-quickening ascent to the final terrace of Mount Purgatory. As he climbs, the pilgrim has a question about the gluttons on the previous terrace . . . but it's really a question that's been brewing since almost the opening of COMEDY itself.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at the opening lines of PURGATORIO, Canto XXV, a canto that was often treated as a scientific treatise in the late Middle Ages and early Renaissance but that is now too often dismissed as a medieval curiosity: Statius's wild discussion of embryology.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:29] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXV, lines 1 - 21. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:33] PURGATORIO's Canto XXV is a bridge between gluttony and lust, as well as a bridge between two important discussions of poetry.

[07:04] We get a brief glimpse of Jerusalem as we hurry up the stairs.

[09:42] Is there symbolism or even allegory in the notion that the narrow stairs "unpairs" the travelers?

[11:48] The pilgrim is a baby stork--he wants to fly but still needs parental protection.

[15:30] The pilgrim Dante finally asks the central problem of corporeality that has troubled COMEDY almost since its beginning.

[18:43] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXV, lines 1 - 21.

Virgil, Statius, and our pilgrim, Dante, head up to the seventh and final terrace of Mount Purgatory.

During the climb, Statius engages in a complicated and fascinating discourse on embryology (at least as understood in Dante's medieval learning).

Then we find ourselves standing before a wall of flames with the lustful penitents walking, singing, and shouting as they burn. We discover there are two types of lustful penitents, before our pilgrim and his two guides have to step into the fire.

It's the first time our pilgrim has felt bodily pain over any of the terrors of hell or the penances of the mountain. He comes out on the other side and Virgil declares that our pilgrim is now his own guide, no longer in need of Virgil at all.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for this surprising read of the final terrace of PURGATORIO.

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[01:35] My rough English translation of the three cantos: PURGATORIO, Cantos XXV - XXVII.

Virgil, Statius, and our pilgrim, Dante, walk along in contemplation, together but also alone with their thoughts.

They're interrupted by the angel at the stairs who shows them the way up to the final terrace of Mount Purgatory.

Our pilgrim loses his sight but gains precision in his other sense. And our poet gains the daring to rewrite one of Jesus's beatitudes.

If you'd like to help underwrite the many costs of this podcast, including, hosting, licensing, streaming, and research fees, please consider a one-time donation or even a very small monthly stipend at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:31] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 130 - 154. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation about this passage, please find its entry on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:48] The growing importance of the contemplative life.

[07:46] The color in the holy glare (red) and the point of this journey (peace).

[11:07] The "blind" simile of the May breeze at dawn.

[16:11] The rewritten and tricky beatitude that ends Canto XXIV.

[21:22] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 130 - 154.

Forese Donati has passed on ahead of our pilgrim Dante and his two guides, Virgil and Statius. They now need to walk on along the sixth terrace of Mount Purgatory to find the stairs up to the last level.

They soon come across the second tree on the terrace (or perhaps just the second tree that they’ve seen!). This tree proclaims itself a seedling from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden.

Dante and his companions appear a bit shook up as the tree offers them a classical and a Biblical example of gluttony.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we begin our exit from the sixth terrace of Purgatory and talk about the solace of ceremonial repetition.

If you’d like to donate to help support the many hosting, licensing, streaming, and editing fees associated with this podcast, please consider giving a one-time contribution or a small monthly stipend using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:34] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 100 - 129. If you’d like to read along or drop a comment about this episode, please find the entry for it on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:47] Unpacking the first four tercets (ll. 100 - 111) and asking five questions about the second tree on Purgatory’s sixth terrace of gluttony.

[12:30] The possible regression to childish desire as a form of penance on this terrace.

[16:05] The second tree on the terrace, a seedling from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden.

[24:29] The classical and Biblical examples of gluttony: centaurs and Gideon’s army.

[28:53] Ceremonial repetition as solace.

[33:38] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 100 - 129

We've finished the giant conversation between the pilgrim Dante and Forese Donati, complete with its interruption by the shade of the poet Bonagiunta of Lucca.

Let's look back over the entire scope of the conversation to discover its construction, its architecture, and the way meaning is made and moves through the words.

We'll start by reading the entire thing in my English language translation. Then we'll move on to a couple of small points, followed by some much larger implications of the construction and imaginative landscape of this interchange.

If you'd like to help support this podcast, please consider giving a one-time donation or a very small monthly stipend using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:06] Reading the entire conversation between Forese Donati and the pilgrim Dante in PURGATORIO, Canto XXIII, line 40, to Canto XXIV, line 99.

[13:27] The conversation starts and ends with references to shores.

[14:51] The pilgrim Dante is not cleansing his sins in this walk up Mount Purgatory.

[17:08] There are three balanced prophecies in this conversation.

[20:54] The conversation is constructed from friendship to poetic craft to chivalric exaltation.

[24:55] This conversation may represent Dante's attempt at political and personal reconciliation.

We've come to the end of the long conversation between Forese Donati and Dante (as well as others) on the sixth terrace of Mount Purgatory among the penance of the gluttons.

Dante the pilgrim hedges the question of when he will die, then Forese leaps into an apocalyptic vision of the ruin of someone closely connected to Florence--that is, his own brother, Corso Donati.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through this apocalyptic prophecy about Corso's ruin, fit it into its historical context, and finally are left with the pilgrim, Virgil, and Statius on the terrace, all caught in a host of military images.

If you'd like to help defray the many fees associated with this podcast, including hosting, editing, domain registrations, and my subscriptions to a host of academic journals, please consider offering a one-time donation or a very small monthly stipend using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:29] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 76 - 99. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode of the podcast on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:43] A couple of problems with what the pilgrim Dante could know and the beginning of the military images in the passage.

[08:53] Forese Donati's apocalyptic prophecy of the very near future.

[13:28] The story of Corso Donati, Forese's brother and a key leader of the Black Guelphs in Florence.

[19:25] The military imagery for Forese's triumph (which reminds us of Brunetto's exit in INFERNO XV), as well as that imagery for Virgil and Statius, standing near the pilgrim on the terrace.

[23:56] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 76 - 99.

Dante the pilgrim has claimed that indeed he is the one who is inspired by love, who writes what love breathes into him and then makes meaning from that.

Bongiunta is not finished with that discussion. Instead, he goes on to name this inspiration the "sweet new style" (or the "dolce stil novo"), thereby igniting over seven hundred years of commentary and controversy.

And Bonagiunta himself seems to throw some fuel on that fire, given his apparent satisfaction with himself. And Dante the poet may add some fuel, too, given his citation of classical sources, hardly breathed-in inspiration.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for this most daunting passage in all of PURGATORIO, striking near the heart of what Dante the poet believes he's doing . . . and what generations of critics and thinkers believe he's doing.

If you'd like to help support this podcast, please consider a very small monthly stipend or a one-time donation through this PayPal link right here. Your contribution helps me pay the many fees associated with keeping this podcast going.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:48] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 55 - 75. If you'd like to read along or to continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:02] Bonagiunta's imaginative landscape: brothers and knots.

[07:17] Bonagiunta's peers (or perhaps his school?): Giacomo da Lentini and Giuttone d'Arezzo.

[11:41] The "sweet new style" and the taproot of Italian literature.

[16:27] Problems with the "sweet new style": its membership, its final relationship to Bonagiunta, and its meaning sewn into the text over generations.

[24:55] Two similes that comment on or even challenge this "sweet new style."

[30:00] Forese's poignant question and its link to INFERNO X.

[31:56] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 55 - 75.

After Forese Donati has pointed out five of the gluttons on the sixth terrace of Mount Purgatory, one of them, the first mentioned and a poet of the previous generation, keeps muttering something almost unintelligible under his breath.

Our pilgrim asks him for more information. He then offers the pilgrim an oblique prophecy that has troubled Dante scholars for hundreds of years. He also asks if this pilgrim is the same guy who wrote a poem found in the VITA NUOVA.

Dante replies that he is indeed that poet . . . and goes on to claim that his poetry is inspired by love itself.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we take on the first half of the single most annotated passage in all of Dante's COMEDY. We are getting to the heart of what Dante thinks he's doing with his poetry . . . but what exactly that is remains something of a mystery, or at least a scholarly debate.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:00] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, Lines 34 - 54. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[05:08] The value of paying attention: the pilgrim to Bonagiunta and Bonagiunta to Dante's poetry.

[08:54] Bonagiunta's shifty murmurs of "gentucca."

[11:51] An opaque prophecy about Lucca from an older poet who should know how to be clear.

[17:13] Bonagiunta's refernce to a canzone (or long poetic song) from Dante's VITA NUOVA.

[20:37] The pilgrim's wild claims for direct inspiration from . . . love (or maybe God).

[27:02] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 34 - 54.

Forese Donati continues to answer Dante the pilgrim's questions by naming five penitent gluttons surrounding them on the sixth terrace of Mount Purgatory.

As he points them out, Forese (and Dante the poet behind him) use culinary and gastronomical imagery to reinforce the themes of the terrace and perhaps to further fuel that long-standing feud between French and Italian cuisine.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we pick through the historical and cultural details in the second part of Forese's answer to the pilgrim.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:52] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 16 - 33. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this podcast episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:17] The deft use of culinary and gastronomic imagery in this passage.

[06:40] Five penitent gluttons: Bonagiunta of Lucca, Pope Martin IV, Ubaldino della Pila, Boniface, and Master Marchese degli Orgogliosi.

[17:12] A curiosity: It's not forbidden to name them?

[19:16] Is this passage a false lead?

[22:54] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 16 - 33.