Walking With Dante

As Dante the pilgrim gets ready to leave the third terrace of Purgatory, the terrace of the angry, he has three ecstatic visions that warn about the dangers of excessive wrath.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at these visions and try to come to terms with the problem that Dante's rage may sit at the very center of COMEDY.

If you'd like to help underwrite the many fees for this podcast, please consider donating a very small monthly stipend or a one-time gift using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:11] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 19 - 39. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:13] Connecting this passage with the previous hymn to the imagination.

[07:37] A review of the first three ecstatic visions in Canto XV at the entrance to the terrace of anger.

[09:46] The first vision (from Ovid's METAMORPHOSES): a (garbled?) reduction of the Philomela, Procne, and Tereus story.

[16:31] The second vision (from the Bible): Ahasuerus, Esther, Mordecai, and Haman.

[20:37] The third vision (from THE AENEID: Queen Amata and her daughter, Lavinia.

[25:00] Dante's rage as the center of COMEDY.

[29:24] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 19 - 39.

Just a brief note to say that I've made a mistake in uploading sound files and I'm too remote a location to make any changes. I'll fix the last episode when I'm home on Sunday and we'll back on the walk.

Sorry about that! But the seals and whales of far northeastern Quebec send you their best.

Dante the pilgrim leaves Marco of Lombardy behind, but Dante the poet is not yet done with fundamental questions for his poem--particularly, how does he know what he knows? The answer lies in the imagination, the shaky ground that Dante posits is the basis of revelation.

If you'd like to help underwrite the fees for this podcast, please consider donating a small monthly stipend or a one-time gift using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:54] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 1 - 18. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this podcast episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:26] The first canto in COMEDY that opens with a direct address to the reader may help us understand the reader that Dante has in mind for his poem.

[05:50] The smoke of anger becomes a fog and mist, which then becomes clouds, all of which happens as poetic space overlays poetic space in a metaphoric tour de force.

[10:08] Aristotle (and Aquinas) argued that the imagination is only based on sensory input.

[13:09] Dante may well disagree, offering the imagination as a mechanism of revelation.

[17:51] Dante begins to claim that his own poem is divinely inspired.

[20:58] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 1 - 18.

We've finished Marco of Lombardy's central discourse about free will, the soul's maturation, and the systemic problems with the world. Now let's look back at the whole speech and talk through some of the larger issues it raises.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at Marco's speech in PURGATORIO in its entirety.

If you'd like to donate to underwrite the many costs of this podcast, whether by a small monthly stipend or a one-time gift, please use this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:28] Rereading all of Marco of Lombardy's speech in my English translation: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 46 - 145. The separate passages of this speech can be found among the former episodes of this podcast.

[07:09] Why is Marco's speech so heavily cribbed?

[09:47] Why is Marco himself an opaque historical figure?

[13:01] Why does Marco's discourse move from personal space to metaphoric space and back to personal space?

[15:16] Is Marco's speech really theological?

[19:43] Who "convened" the laws and leader that Marco wants?

[22:52] Is the point of Marco's speech to give Dante permission to preach about corruption?

Marco of Lombardy's time in COMEDY comes to an end with a chatty back-and-forth between him and the pilgrim Dante. Dante wants to compliment Marco on creating such a great argument (the one, that is, that Dante the poet created!) but Marco's only answer seems to be irritation and an abrupt dismissal.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for a fascinating deep dive into the end of PURGATORIO, Canto XVI.

If you'd like to help underwrite the many fees associated with this podcast, please consider donating a one-time gift or a small monthly stipend using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:33] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, Lines 130 - 145. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:10] The pilgrim Dante disallows land holdings for the papacy, based on Marco's reasoning.

[05:45] PURGATORIO, Canto XVI returns to Torah at its end, offering the argument deep, long-standing ballast.

[08:00] Gaia, Gherardo's daughter, has long been a troubling figure in commentary.

[10:45] What does this conversational coda to Marco's disquisition on free will do for the poem COMEDY as a whole?

[13:23] Why do the penitents work through anger in a lightless smoke?

[16:14] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 130 - 145.

Marco of Lombardy, the angry penitent, continues his diagnosis of the world's problems. It's got only one sun, not two, as Rome had. And that one sun, the papacy, is not kosher. In fact, perhaps cannot be kosher under any circumstances.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore a big chunk of Marco's reasoning about the world's ills. He said it was in us. But he seems to claim it's more systemic than personal.

Consider donating a one-time gift or perhaps a small monthly stipend to cover the costs of this podcast. You can do so at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:45] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 97 - 129. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:29] The papacy is not--or cannot be--kosher.

[07:36] Pastoral metaphoric space unifies the passage.

[09:30] Our nature is NOT corrupted?

[12:46] The papacy v. the empire: Dante's dilemma.

[18:26] The papacy v. the empire: the dilemma of Dante's age.

[21:17] Marco's argument moves back into personal space: his own Lombardy.

[22:48] Three good men are left on the Italian peninsula.

[26:10] These three good men are in contrast to the gluten Ciacco's two witnesses in INFERNO, Canto VI.

[29:36] The church of Rome isn't in Rome anymore!

[31:44] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 97 - 129.

Marco of Lombardy continues his discourse on free will, deep in the pitch-black smoke of the third terrace of Purgatory where the angry penitents confront their sin.

His discussion takes a wild turn: a developmental hypothesis of the soul as a little girl, a scheme that may or may not nix original sin from Christian theology.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore this complicated passage at almost the very heart of COMEDY.

If you'd like to help underwrite the many fees for this podcast, either with a one-time donation or with a little bit each month as a stipend, please consider doing so at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:38] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 85 - 96. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:04] A passage from Dante's CONVIVIO that is the basis for some of this passage in COMEDY (CONVIVIO, Book IV, chapter xii, lines 14 - 17.)

[10:37] Dante's developmental hypothesis about the soul.

[15:35] Dante's understanding of the soul as a little girl, to confirm the heteronormative desire that is the basis of creation/being.

[20:02] Answers to whether Dante jettisons the notion of original sin: 1) yes, 2) no, 3) only here, or 4) Dante's doesn't but Marco does.

[26:42] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 85 - 96.

Dante the pilgrim has asked the angry Marco of Lombardy the cause of the world's ills. Marco responds with both exasperation and affection before turning to the root of the matter: The cause is in all of you.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at this central passage in COMEDY, a grand statement of the Christian paradox of free will.

If you'd like to help underwrite this podcast through a one-time donation or via a small monthly stipend, please consider doing so at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:49] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 64 - 84. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please find this podcast entry on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:15] A justification for how this episode works.

[06:00] The conflation of anger and affection in the texture of the passage.

[08:49] Marco's teamwork with Guido del Duca, back among the envious.

[10:02] Human feelings as the proof for free will.

[13:27] One impetus to behavior (the zodiac signs) with two initial gifts (light and free will).

[15:22] Two outs for free will: the battles against those astrological signs and proper nourishment. (But not Satan or the demons!)

[19:48] Free will and God's control: the breadth of Dante's pasture.

[28:03] The cause of evil: humans. The truth of God: transcendence.

[31:17] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 64 - 84.

Dante's on the verge of exploding with doubt. Marco of Lombardy's snark about the loss of valor in the bows of this world has done little more than leave the pilgrim in a theological puzzle: How did the world get so bad?

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore Dante's question to Marco before we turn to Marco's central discourse, the very middle of the great masterwork COMEDY.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:48] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 52 - 63. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this specific episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:21] Dante's question assumes the values of chivalry.

[08:34] Can the redeemed instigate doubt?

[10:36] Dante ties Marco's snark back to Guido del Duca's nostalgia.

[13:19] COMEDY's new motivation is to bring back the answers.

[14:36] Dante's quandary is astrological, not truly theological (per se).

[17:00] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 52 -63.

Wrapped in the dark, acrid smoke, Dante encounters one of the angry penitents and one of the most seminal figures in COMEDY, here at almost the exact center of the entire poem.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through the pilgrim's flatteries, the penitent's abrupt nature, and the questions of beauty that begin to dominate COMEDY itself.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:10] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 25 - 51. If you'd like to read along or continue the discussion with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:35] Is Marco still angry? Abrupt? What his deal with cutting and segmenting?

[08:21] Virgil is all about the destination in a canticle all about process.

[10:31] Dante the pilgrim is becoming the wonder of the poem. And he's beginning to connect beauty with ethics.

[14:57] At first, Marco probably is walking toward (not with) Dante and Virgil.

[17:19] Dante's answer to Marco seems to indicate that he now is indeed Aeneas and Paul (as opposed to how he felt in INFERNO, Canto II).

[21:20] The erratic plotting of PURGATORIO positions this canticle between INFERNO and PARADISO.

[25:05] Who is Marco of Lombardy? And is that even his name?

[27:06] Marco of Lombardy is connected to Ulysses (from INFERNO, Canto XXVI).

[29:28] Marco asks Dante the pilgrim to pray for him, a distinct change from those who've come before.

[31:14] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 25 - 51.