What happens when three experienced investigators from opposite sides of the world sit down to examine how police respond to an active shooter?
In this special crossover between Stop the Killing and Watching Two Detectives, former FBI Special Agent Katherine Schweit joins retired New South Wales detectives Peter Hogan and Scott Rogan for an expert examination of the lessons that have reshaped mass-shooting prevention, preparation and police response.
Katherine was working on national security and counterterrorism cases when the murder of 20 children and six educators at Sandy Hook Elementary School changed the direction of her career. Following the shooting, she was appointed to the White House team tasked with developing a coordinated national response to mass shootings and became the architect of the FBI’s Active Shooter Program.
In Part One, Katherine explains how the devastating events at Sandy Hook helped accelerate a fundamental change in policing: moving away from the traditional strategy of “contain, negotiate and wait” towards the immediate deployment of officers to confront and stop an active threat.
Peter and Scott reveal how those lessons travelled across the world and influenced Australian policing. They discuss the introduction of New South Wales Police’s Active Armed Offender training, the impact of the 2014 Lindt Café siege and the confronting reality of preparing ordinary frontline officers to run towards attackers armed with military-style weapons.
Why active-shooter incidents can be over within minutes
The extraordinary risks faced by the first officers entering the scene
Why an active shooter and a mass shooting are not always the same thing
Why workplaces—not schools—account for many active-shooter attacks in the United States
The challenges of negotiating with attackers driven by extremist or ideological motives
Why warning signs must be recognised and reported before violence begins
How information shared by one student helped prevent a planned school shooting
Why measuring the attacks that never happened is so important
Katherine also shares the remarkable story of the message that reminded her why Stop the Killing must continue: a school vice principal who credited the podcast with helping her team recognise the warning signs and prevent a planned attack.
This conversation lays the groundwork for the next part of the series, when Katherine, Peter and Scott turn their attention to the December 14, 2025 Bondi Beach terrorist attack, examining the actions of the attackers, civilians and responding officers through their combined FBI and Australian policing experience. The attack targeted a Hanukkah celebration and killed 15 people.
This is not simply a conversation about what happened. It is a conversation about what has been learned, what has changed—and what still needs to change to stop the next attack.
Listen now to Part One of this special multi-part crossover.
Stop the Killing on Apple Podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/stop-the-killing/id1585146489
Watching Two Detectives on Apple Podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/watching-two-detectives/id1740792484
Watching Two Detectives Patreon:https://www.patreon.com/wtd
Stop the Killing Patreon:GUNS, SUICIDE AND THE WOMEN WHO TALK TO THE DEAD — PART TWO
In Part Two of this special crossover between Stop the Killing and Watching Two Detectives, former FBI Special Agent Katherine Schweit continues her conversation with retired New South Wales detectives Peter Hogan and Scott Rogan.
Before the team turns its attention to the Bondi Beach killings, they take a deeper look at the realities that sit behind conversations about firearms, mass violence and public safety.
Katherine explains why she wrote Stop the Killing: A Simple Guide to the Second Amendment and why productive conversations about guns in the United States have become so difficult. With hundreds of millions of firearms already in circulation, she argues that prevention has to begin with the laws, risks and realities that currently exist—not the world people wish existed.
The conversation also examines one of the most overlooked parts of America’s firearms crisis: suicide. Katherine explains that the majority of firearm deaths in the United States are self-inflicted, raising difficult questions about access to weapons during moments of crisis and how firearms can turn a temporary period of distress into an irreversible outcome.
Peter, Scott and Katherine discuss:
Why active-shooter attacks and other forms of mass violence are not directly comparable
How the weapon used can dramatically change the number of casualties
The difference between bolt-action, semi-automatic and automatic firearms
Why Australia’s firearms restrictions mattered during the Bondi Beach attack
How the elevated firing position at Bondi could have produced an even greater loss of life if different weapons had been available
What the 2017 Las Vegas mass shooting demonstrates about firing speed, distance and crowd density
Why statistics must be properly explained rather than used to support a predetermined argument
The conversation then moves from mass-shooting prevention to another extraordinary investigation from Katherine’s career.
Katherine introduces her book Women Who Talk to the Dead, which follows Detroit detective Shannon Jones and FBI forensic specialist Leslie Larsen as they uncover a connection between missing-person investigations and unidentified murder victims buried in paupers’ graves.
What begins with one detective searching through decades-old paper files develops into the largest exhumation of murder victims ever undertaken by the FBI.
Katherine reveals how a team of female detectives, prosecutors, forensic anthropologists and investigators volunteered their expertise and time to recover remains, obtain DNA and finally return names to people who had been unidentified for decades.
Peter also reflects on his own experience working alongside a forensic anthropologist during the painstaking exhumation of a murder victim—and why a line in a news report stating that investigators “exhumed the body and obtained DNA” can never capture the time, care and expertise that work truly requires.
This episode is about the human realities hidden behind the statistics: the people lost to firearms, the investigators who carry the responsibility of finding answers and the extraordinary work required to give unidentified victims their names back.
And after two episodes of expert discussion, the stage is now set.
In Part Three, Katherine Schweit, Peter Hogan and Scott Rogan turn their combined FBI and New South Wales policing experience towards the Bondi Beach killings and examine the events of that tragic day.
Stop the Killing on Apple Podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/stop-the-killing/id1585146489
Watching Two Detectives on Apple Podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/watching-two-detectives/id1740792484
Watching Two Detectives Patreon:https://www.patreon.com/wtd
Stop the Killing Patreon:https://www.patreon.com/stopthekilling
Listening on the Stop the Killing feed? Head over to Watching Two Detectives, subscribe and discover the four seasons waiting for you.
Listening on Watching Two Detectives? Search for Stop the Killing, subscribe and explore more than 300 episodes examining mass shootings, prevention, survival and the people working to create meaningful change.
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Join us next week for Part Three: the Bondi Beach killings through the expert lenses of Katherine Schweit, Peter Hogan and Scott Rogan.
This episode contains discussions of mass shootings, suicide, firearms, murder victims and human remains. Listener discretion is advised.
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