Leaders who are respected are 12x more likely to be seen as effective than those who are simply liked. This is because respect is tied to competence, fairness, and consistency.

Respect in leadership isn't about titles or status, but about treating team members as capable adults rather than children. This helps avoid learned helplessness among teams, and creates environments where people feel safe to take risks, speak up, and even fail without fear of punishment.

Robyn Djelassi is a Chief People Officer, non-executive director, and coach. She runs her own HR consultancy working with organisations across Australia, with a focus on helping organisations achieve business results through their people.

Her approach to HR is a little different from the warm-and-fuzzy cliché that has permeated the industry, but is done with heart.

Robyn’s ADULTS leadership framework

• A: Accountability over approval. Don’t lead to be liked; lead to be trusted.
• D: Debrief, don’t rescue. When mistakes happen, resist fixing them for your team.
• U: Uncomfortable is useful. Don’t smooth the edges; people grow through the stretch.
• L: Let go of control. Ask “Have I made it clear what success looks like?”
• T: Trust before proof. Trust people before they’ve earned it.
• S: Say less, ask more. Use questions to help people think for themselves.

Episode highlights

• [00:09:03] What new leaders think leadership is
• [00:10:37] The "cool mum" approach to leadership
• [00:14:12] What we mean when we talk about respect
• [00:15:39] We're getting psychological safety wrong
• [00:20:07] Findings from Google's Project Aristotle
• [00:23:43] How to garner respect as a new leader
• [00:24:39] Robyn's ADULTS framework
• [00:30:32] Robyn's media recommendation
• [00:31:57] Takeaways from Pia and Dan

Links

• Connect with Robyn via LinkedIn
• We Used to be Journos – Robyn’s podcast recommendation
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
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Too many "best places to work" lists focus on performative, low-cost perks like free breakfasts and dog-friendly offices. But they ignore fundamental issues like fair pay, reasonable working hours, and meaningful parental leave.

Companies often use marketing language to make minimal benefits sound impressive, like claiming "enhanced parental leave" when they're barely exceeding the statutory minimum. This creates a disconnect between how organisations present themselves and the actual employee experience.

Amy Wilson is a commercial consultant advisor, with a background in marketing, who helps companies grow and founders focus on what matters. She mentors young and underrepresented founders, and she joins Dan and Pia to discuss her LinkedIn post critiquing The Times’ Best “Places to Work" list.

Three reasons to listen

• To be mindful of performative workplace benefits that don't actually improve employee experience
• To identify misleading claims about "enhanced" benefits that barely exceed statutory minimums
• To understand how organisational silos and conflicting KPIs lead to workplace policies that prioritise appearance over substance

Episode highlights

• [00:06:48] What constitutes a good place to work?
• [00:10:55] Amy's response to the New York Times Best Business to Work article
• [00:17:09] Allies in name only
• [00:22:14] Why aren't companies doing the right thing?
• [00:25:27] Are things getting worse?
• [00:26:39] What can we do about it?
• [00:33:20] Amy's media recommendation
• [00:36:08] Takeaways from Dan and Pia

Links

• Connect with Amy via LinkedIn
• Amy’s response to the Sunday Times Besst Places to Work article
• Halt and Catch Fire – Amy’s TV recommendation
• Building a thriving culture from the outside in – Episode 58, with Tom Wedge and Marcus Swalwell
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

Effective change management hinges on the quality of our conversations. Asking questions can be an exertion of power, so motivational interviewing seeks to bring clarity and ensure information is shared in a way that respects the recipient's readiness to receive it.

Jeffrey Wetherhold is a change management professional who helps organisations and teams navigate difficult changes. He specialises in motivational interviewing and uses this approach to help teams have more effective conversations during periods of change.

Three reasons to listen

• To learn how to structure change-focused conversations
• To help you make more effective affirmations instead of offering general praise
• To learn how to share information more effectively, to ensure others are ready to receive and engage with it

Episode highlights

• [00:07:17] ?Motivational interviewing
• [00:10:28] Making specific affirmations
• [00:12:48] Ask, offer, ask
• [00:15:26] When to ask questions
• [00:19:23] How to become a better listener
• [00:21:19] Fitting motivational interviewing into existing skillsets
• [00:22:46] Busynesss overriding business
• [00:28:22] Guiding, influencing, or leading conversations
• [00:31:28] Reflect more, ask less
• [00:32:58] Dan's media recommendations
• [00:35:11] Takeaways from Pia and Dan

Links

• Connect with Jeff via LinkedIn
• Team of Teams: New Rules of Engagement for a Complex World, by David Silverman, Stanley McChrystal, Tantum Collins, & Chris Fussell
• Moral Ambition: Stop Wasting Your Talent and Start Making a Difference, by Rutger Bregman
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

The “traditional” understanding of hybrid working is being challenged as organisations try to implement more structured approaches, creating friction with employees who developed their own interpretations of what hybrid working means during the pandemic.

Matthew Davis is an associate professor at the University of Leeds. He specialises in organisational and business psychology, with extensive research experience in workplace environments. He researches and consults on hybrid work patterns, and studies how companies are adapting their workspaces and practices.

Three reasons to listen

• To understand different generational perspectives on hybrid work, from senior leaders pushing for office returns to younger workers concerned about isolation and development opportunities
• To navigate the evolving definition of hybrid work and how it varies across organisations
• To better grasp how employee choice and control over both where and when to work has become central to how workers define hybrid arrangements

Episode highlights

• [00:11:54] What is"hybrid working"?
• [00:17:14] Is hybrid always a positive?
• [00:23:39] What do workers want?
• [00:24:31] Hybrid's benefits for inclusion
• [00:27:28] What hybrid is missing
• [00:30:57] Caveats on returning to the office
• [00:37:23] Matthew's guiding principle
• [00:40:50] Matthew's media recommendation
• [00:42:10] Takeaways from Dan and Pia

Links

• Connect with Matthew via LinkedIn
• The Prophet and the Idiot, by Jonas Jonasson
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

Treating people unkindly at work isn't just a personal issue; it's a systemic problem that affects everyone's performance. The evidence shows that when people understand how behaviour impacts performance, they're more likely to change their own conduct, reducing disrespectful behaviour in the workplace.

Dr Chris Turner is an emergency medicine consultant in the UK, and the cofounder of an organisation called Civility Saves Lives. Chris rose to prominence during a local NHS crisis, where he was recognised in official inquiries for speaking truth to power. His work on workplace behaviour started with one small talk that went viral, eventually leading to TEDx talks and broader recognition.

Three reasons to listen

• To understand how poor treatment affects workplace performance
• To transform your perspective on workplace behaviour from an individual issue to a collective cultural challenge
• To see how even the experts struggle with self-regulation in challenging situations, and what to do when that happens

Episode highlights

• [00:10:40] How behaviour impacts performance
• [00:14:03] Even the experts get it wrong
• [00:18:31] What is univil behaviour?
• [00:21:42] Why civility matters in business
• [00:23:10] When is it time to change your behaviour?
• [00:33:14] The case against hot takes
• [00:35:45] What to do next
• [00:38:13] Chris' media recommendations
• [00:39:27] Takeaways from Dan and Pia

Links

• Connect with Chris via LinkedIn
• Civility Saves Lives
• The Culture Code, by Daniel Coylke
• You Can't Outrun the Radio, by Jonathan Byrd
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
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Kindness and productivity are not opposing forces in business. In fact, kindness can be a powerful driver of success when treated as a practical approach rather than just a nice-to-have value.

Shifting from a scarcity mindset to an abundance mindset, and focusing on collaboration rather than competition, can transform how teams work together.

Graham Allcott is an author and the founder of Think Productive, a global company that helps teams improve their work through productivity and leadership training. He’s written multiple books, including the international bestseller How to be a Productivity Ninja. His latest book, Kind, explores the relationship between kindness and business success.

Three reasons to listen

• Shift your thinking to create more opportunities for kindness
• Build stronger teams without defaulting to competitive behaviour
• Create ripple effects of positive change by understanding how self-kindness and kindfulness influence team dynamics

Episode highlights

• [00:11:24] When you're kind, you win
• [00:14:05] The scarcity mindset
• [00:17:06] How we can develop kindness
• [00:19:07] The myth of the business bastard
• [00:22:17] Psychological safety in teams
• [00:23:20] Case study: Timpson
• [00:27:37] How to build an abondance mindset
• [00:28:42] Kindness vs niceness
• [00:30:10] Case study: Jacinda Ardern
• [00:32:04] Kindness and difficult decisions
• [00:35:53] Kindness starts with you
• [00:37:57] Graham's media recommendations
• [00:40:18] Takeaways from Pia and Dan

Links

• Connect with Graham via LinkedIn
• Kind: The Quiet Power of Kindness at Work – Graham’s most recent book
• Why Has Nobody Told Me This Before? by Dr Julie Smith
• Moral Ambition: Stop Wasting Your Talent and Start Making a Difference, by Rutger Bregman
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

Traditional ways of working are failing in today's complex world, with global engagement levels dropping and productivity losses reaching $438 billion.

Adopting business agility – not just its tools and processes, but its mindset shifts – helps organisations move beyond outdated approaches and create more effective ways of working.

Joining Dan and Pia is Natal Dank, an HR author, speaker, and consultant specialising in helping businesses become great workplaces. Her work particularly focuses on HR and people teams, bringing business agility principles to organisations.

Three reasons to listen

1. To understand how business agility can help solve multifaceted problems in uncertain environments
2. To build effective teams that break down silos and harness diverse skills
3. To focus on solving real business challenges rather than getting caught up in tools and terminology

Episode highlights

• [00:09:16] The Agile mindset
• [00:13:46] Misconceptions around Agile
• [00:18:19] Agile people teams
• [00:23:05] Teams in name only
• [00:24:17] The challenges in adopting Agile
• [00:27:11] The evidence for Agile
• [00:31:58] Common objections to Agile
• [00:40:05] Leaders need to embrace complexity
• [00:41:26] What does "done" look like?
• [00:44:20] Protecting time for deep work
• [00:46:10] Where to start
• [00:48:58] Natal's media recommendation
• [00:50:35] Takeaways from Dan and Pia

Links

• Connect with Natal via LinkedIn
• On the Level – Margaret Heffernan’s Substack newsletter
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

Most change initiatives fail because they focus solely on technical aspects like planning, roles, and measures, while neglecting the human element – particularly the need for people to understand why changes are happening and to feel heard throughout the process.

Jeffrey Wetherhold is a behavioral scientist who’s built his career around organisational change management. He transitioned from behavioural science to community health, and now runs his own change management consultancy.

This conversation will help you

• Better understand why traditional technical change management approaches often fail
• Recognise and address the most fundamental barrier to organisational change
• Move beyond labels like "resistant" or "averse" and focus on different perspectives

Episode highlights

• [00:07:46] Understanding change management
• [00:11:21] When change feels weaponised
• [00:13:04] Overcoming resistance to change
• [00:15:05] Mmotivational interviewing.
• [00:17:47] Where to begin having the change conversation
• [00:23:12] Caught in the middle
• [00:27:01] The hierarchy of needs
• [00:30:30] What you can do today
• [00:32:44] Jeff's media recommendations
• [00:34:23] Takeaways from Dan and Pia

Links

• Connect with Jeff via LinkedIn
• How Minds Change: The New Science of Belief, Opinion and Persuasion, by David McRaney
• Build Something Better – The Raw Signal Group newsletter
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
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Spiritual intelligence in leadership goes far beyond simply posting mission statements on walls - it's about cultivating fundamental qualities like purpose, gratitude, humility and presence that create genuinely harmonious and productive workplaces.

Research shows that leaders who embrace these qualities build teams with higher morale, greater commitment, and even better financial results.

Yosi Amram is an expert in spiritual intelligent leadership and a former Silicon Valley entrepreneur, leaving that role to become a clinical psychologist. His research on spiritual intelligence has been cited over a thousand times, proving that spiritual intelligence gets results.

Three reasons to listen

• Discover the 22 key qualities that contribute to better leadership and organisational outcomes
• Understand practical ways to reduce workplace toxicity and politics
• Explore how qualities like gratitude and humility can transform team dynamics and create more harmonious work environments

Episode highlights

• [00:11:25] Spiritual intelligence
• [00:21:13] Separation of church and state
• [00:24:34] Separating from the ego
• [00:29:48] Internal family systems
• [00:31:32] Overidentifying with the job
• [00:33:51] Where to start
• [00:37:54] Yosi's media recommendation
• [00:39:06] Takeaways from Pia and Dan

Links

• Spiritually Intelligent Leadership – Yosi‘s book
• No Bad Parts, by Richard Schwartz
• Take the Spiritual Intelligence assessment
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Atomic Habits, by James Clear
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Effective leadership remains fundamentally the same regardless of location. It's the context that changes, not the core principles. The key is to think “leadership first, location second".

While the physical setting may vary, the essential aspects of human behaviour, interaction, and needs remain constant, making it crucial for leaders to maintain their foundational leadership skills while adapting to new working environments.

Kevin Eikenberry is an author, business owner, speaker, and podcaster. He co-wrote The Long Distance Leader and runs the Remote Leadership Institute. He’s been leading remote teams for about 15 years and specialises in remote and hybrid leadership training.

Three reasons to listen

• Learn principles that remain relevant even as workplace dynamics continue evolving
• Understand why many leaders push for return-to-office, through a compassionate lens
• Discover how the pandemic transformed leadership practices, particularly in developing greater empathy and attention to individual team member circumstances

Episode highlights

• [00:07:59] Writing The Long Distance Leader
• [00:13:21] Why many leaders prefer to bring people back to the office
• [00:18:05] Recapturing the magic
• [00:21:57] The shifting social views of work in history
• [00:24:35] Mindset and skillset for remote leadership
• [00:27:34] The problem with "busy"
• [00:30:49] Intention without action
• [00:32:04] Flexible Leadership
• [00:34:37] Kevin's media recommendations
• [00:35:50] Takeaways from Pia and Dan

Links

• The Long-Distance Leader: Rules for Remarkable Remote and Hybrid Leadership, by Kevin Eikenberry and Wayne Turmel
• Building Confidence in Yourself & Others – Kevin’s free masterclass for podcast listeners
• The Remarkable Leadership Podcast
• Connect with Kevin via LinkedIn
• Books by Og Mandino
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note