We Not Me

There's a scientific basis for understanding optimal team size, including research on connection complexity, social loafing, and performance data that challenges common assumptions about how many people should work together effectively.

In this Q&A episode, Dan and Pia dive into the science and the data, to discover the optimum team size.

Episode highlights

• [00:01:27] Is it OK to have a big team?
• [00:04:15] The Ringelmann effect
• [00:07:22] What's the optimum team size?
• [00:08:18] When is a team a group?
• [00:10:20] What the Squadify data shows

Links

• Ringelmann effect
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

While AI will dramatically reshape work and careers – potentially displacing entry-level jobs and creating “companies of one” – the true competitive advantage will lie in taking a human-centric approach to AI adoption, where diverse teams maintain creativity, critical thinking and genuine human connection rather than simply automating away people to maximise shareholder returns.

Larry Chao is the founding Chief Strategy and Operations Officer at trustme.ai, a startup building tools for AI governance. He’s also involved with nonprofits like Berkeley Skydeck and the Ethical AI Governance Group, where he helps empower the next generation of innovators to develop AI responsibly.

Sunaina Lobo has been a Chief Human Resources Officer three times over, and is now a strategic advisor to trustme.aiand co-founder of Momentum Global HR, where she does strategic HR consulting with an AI lens.

Three reasons to listen

• Understand the trajectory and implications of AI evolution, and what this means for teams and workflows
• Navigate the human impact of AI adoption in your organisation
• Move beyond AI as a differentiator to focus on human connection and diverse thought as the true sources of organisational strength

Episode highlights

• [00:12:47] The evolution of AI
• [00:16:55] AI and teams
• [00:17:37] Facts emerging from our continued use of AI
• [00:29:01] The case for responsible AI
• [00:32:15] The case against the "company of one"
• [00:41:50] Driving shareholder value while being human-centred
• [00:43:43] Suni's media recommendation
• [00:44:05] Larry's media recommendation
• [00:45:12] Takeaways from Pia and Dan

Links

• Connect with Larry via LinkedIn
• Connect with Sunaina via LinkedIn
• TrustMe.ai
• Suni’s podcast recommendations:
  • Pioneers of AI
  • The AII Daily Brief
• KPop Demon Hunters – Larry’s recommendation
• Humankind, by Rutger Bregman
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

Successful team performance requires slowing down to achieve alignment before rushing into action. Spending more time upfront ensuring everyone truly understands the problem statement, decision-making roles, and priorities will save significant time, energy, and relationship breakdowns later.

Without this foundational alignment, teams waste enormous amounts of time in ineffective meetings, experience constant breakdowns in execution, and carry baggage from unresolved issues that poisons future decisions. The key is to move with discipline and sophistication rather than mere speed, investing in both the technical frameworks and the relational intelligence needed to bring out the best thinking from diverse perspectives.

Susan Asiyanbi is the founder and CEO of the Olori Network, an executive leadership practice that works with CEOs, executive teams, and boards, specialising in studying what the strongest executive teams and boards do differently.

Three reasons to listen

• Identify the hidden costs of misalignment in your team, from wasted meeting time to breakdowns in relationships that drain energy both at work and at home
• Apply a disciplined approach to decision-making that balances speed with rigour through five key strands
• Reclaim control of your calendar by conducting a time audit that reveals the gap between what you say matters and where you actually spend your energy

Episode highlights

• [00:09:18] Alignment, themes, and relationships
• [00:11:06] How to get alignment
• [00:12:32] What happens when alignment isn't found
• [00:15:48] Asking the right questions
• [00:17:32] Decision-making is compromised
• [00:18:40] The five key components of a decision-making framework
• [00:26:17] How to move more slowly
• [00:28:41] How will AI affect decision-making?
• [00:31:44] What are you prioritising for?
• [00:37:23] What to try this
• [00:39:57] Susan's media recommendation
• [00:40:43] Takeaways from Pia and Dan

Links

• Connect with Susan via LinkedIn
• Team #1, by Patrick Lencioni
• AI-Generated “Workslop” Is Destroying Productivity
• How to turn a group of strangers into a team – Susan’s media recommendation
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

Purpose-driven organisations create meaningful impact when they anchor their decisions to their core mission.

UA92, an educational institution founded by former Manchester United footballers, demonstrates how breaking down systemic barriers to higher education can transform lives. Their approach focuses on making education accessible through practical solutions like fixed timetabling, continuous assessment instead of exams, and financial support.

What makes their model powerful is how deeply their purpose permeates every aspect of their work – from hiring to decision-making – always asking "what does this mean for the students?"

Rather than having fancy but empty value statements, they use simple values like "we care" backed by consistent, dedicated action. This creates a powerful ripple effect that extends beyond individual students to families and communities.

This conversation will help you:

• Understand how purpose-driven organisations can break down barriers to higher education
• Create a stronger organisational culture by involving team members in defining simple but meaningful values
• Fcus on how you implement changes rather than just what changes you make

Episode highlights

• [00:08:58] The legacy of the Class of '92
• [00:12:40] A real purpose
• [00:15:59] The challenges UA92 faces
• [00:19:14] Success stories from graduation
• [00:22:43] When values are tested
• [00:25:13] The impact UA92 is having now
• [00:26:59] Putting values into measurableaction
• [00:31:01] What can we as leaders do today?
• [00:33:08] Ian's media recommendation
• [00:34:22] Andy's media recommendation
• [00:35:47] Takeaways from Dan and Pia

Links

• Connect with Andy via LinkedIn
• Connect with Ian via LinkedIn
• Good to Great, by Jim Collins
• Dare to Lead, by Brene Brown
• Mixtape – TV series
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

Rather than trying to "fix" people or show them rungs on a ladder, social mobility comes from recognising individuals, giving them psychological safety, and allowing them to fulfil their own potential.

Diverse workplaces thrive not because of tokenistic inclusion efforts, but because different voices at the table lead to better outcomes and more successful organisations.

Dan and Pia are joined by Arad Reisberg, Associate Pro Vice-Chancellor at Brunel University of London, campaigner for social justice and social mobility, and co-founder of the Social Mobility Leaders Forum.

Three reasons to listen

• Reframe your understanding of social mobility as social justice, focusing on creating opportunities for people to fulfil their potential rather than just climbing career ladders
• Create an environment where people feel comfortable being their authentic selves by asking powerful questions and actively listening
• Build more diverse, successful teams by recognising that different voices at the table lead to better outcomes, challenging conventional thinking about "hiring for fit"

Episode highlights

• [00:09:32] What is social mobility?
• [00:15:24] How social mobility helps business
• [00:18:59] How to implement social mobility in your organisation
• [00:26:31] Arad's media recommendation
• [00:29:43] Takeaways from Dan and Pia

Links

• Connect with Arad via LinkedIn
• Arad’s media recommendations: the Inward trilogy by Yung Pueblo:
  1. Inward
  2. Clarity & Connection
  3. The Way Forward
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

Restaurant franchises can be powerful environments for leadership development, especially for young people. When managed with intentionality, these seemingly entry-level jobs can provide significant opportunities for personal growth, skill development, and career advancement.

Melissa Nuttall, along with her partner, is the franchisee of a quick service restaurant in New Zealand. In this conversation with Pia and Dan, she lays out how good customer service and continuous training create positive work cycles that benefit both employees and customers.

Three reasons to listen

• Achieve broader business goals while reducing cognitive load on staff
• Develop young team members into capable leaders through progressive responsibility
• Create safe spaces for growth regardless of employees’ long-term career plans

Episode highlights

• [00:08:38] Helping the next generation of leaders
• [00:14:21] Turning a culture around
• [00:18:23] Creating a stable launchpad for new careers
• [00:24:38] Leading with kindness and humility
• [00:27:58] Be mindful of your leadership shadow
• [00:29:20] Mel's media recommendation
• [00:30:11] Takeaways from Pia and Dan

Links

• Connect with Melissa via LinkedIn
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

While many teams focus on building trust to improve performance, it's actually clarity that needs to be addressed first.

Research shows that teams need clear roles, goals and processes before they can effectively build trust and collaborate. This represents a significant shift from traditional thinking about team development, and the data shows that improving clarity drives up trust results, whilst working directly on trust doesn't impact clarity scores.

In this episode, Squadify’s Chief Data Officer, Juliet Owen re-joins Dan and Pia to discuss the role clarity plays in driving team performance.

This episode will help you

• Build team trust by first establishing clarity around roles, goals and processes rather than focusing directly on trust-building exercises
• Create effective one-page team documents that capture why the team exists, their collective goals, and non-negotiable behaviours
• Drive better team performance by shifting from individual KPIs to collective team goals that encourage collaboration rather than competition

Episode highlights

• [00:09:34] How teams are coping with change today
• [00:15:30] What we mean by trust
• [00:20:03] The trust gap
• [00:26:29] Case studies on building trust
• [00:33:12] What can you do?
• [00:34:59] Pia and Juliet's media recommendations
• [00:37:24] Takeaways from Pia and Dan

Links

• The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable, by Patrick Lencioni
• You Can’t Ask That – Pia’s mdia recommendation
• The Ministry of Time, by Kaliane Bradley
• Connect with Juliet via LinkedIn
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

Humans are crucial to AI adoption. While AI technology continues to advance, its effective implementation in business depends on people working with it rather than being replaced by it.

Inclusive AI means finding the right balance between technological advancement and human insight, rather than seeing AI as a simple push-button solution to complex knowledge work.

Susi O’Neill is a consultant, author, and speaker on frontier technology. She helps organisations implement AI effectively, analyses AI trends, and distills insights in her newsletter.

Three reasons to listen

• To move past the hype and see how humans will continue to be essential in an AI-enhanced workplace
• To start implementing an effective approach to AI adoption in your organisation
• To develop a more balanced perspective on technological change than the one propagated by Silicon Valley

Episode highlights

• [00:05:19] The nebulous nature of AI
• [00:11:17] Change is the constant
• [00:16:06] The falacy of the competetive advantage
• [00:18:16] Inclusive AI
• [00:26:18] How do we use AI responsibly?
• [00:29:05] Squadify's AI governance
• [00:33:06] Take your first step into AI
• [00:37:41] Suzi's media recommendations
• [00:40:32] Takeaways from Dan and Pia

Links

• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note
• Connect with Suzi via LinkedIn
• Rethinking the Hype Cycle – Suzi’s newsletter
• Women Leaders in Tech Outpace Men Counterparts in Generative AI Adoption
• Channel 4 Corporate AI Principles
• Supremacy, by Parmy Olson
• Threads (1984)
• Offal

Leaders who are respected are 12x more likely to be seen as effective than those who are simply liked. This is because respect is tied to competence, fairness, and consistency.

Respect in leadership isn't about titles or status, but about treating team members as capable adults rather than children. This helps avoid learned helplessness among teams, and creates environments where people feel safe to take risks, speak up, and even fail without fear of punishment.

Robyn Djelassi is a Chief People Officer, non-executive director, and coach. She runs her own HR consultancy working with organisations across Australia, with a focus on helping organisations achieve business results through their people.

Her approach to HR is a little different from the warm-and-fuzzy cliché that has permeated the industry, but is done with heart.

Robyn’s ADULTS leadership framework

• A: Accountability over approval. Don’t lead to be liked; lead to be trusted.
• D: Debrief, don’t rescue. When mistakes happen, resist fixing them for your team.
• U: Uncomfortable is useful. Don’t smooth the edges; people grow through the stretch.
• L: Let go of control. Ask “Have I made it clear what success looks like?”
• T: Trust before proof. Trust people before they’ve earned it.
• S: Say less, ask more. Use questions to help people think for themselves.

Episode highlights

• [00:09:03] What new leaders think leadership is
• [00:10:37] The "cool mum" approach to leadership
• [00:14:12] What we mean when we talk about respect
• [00:15:39] We're getting psychological safety wrong
• [00:20:07] Findings from Google's Project Aristotle
• [00:23:43] How to garner respect as a new leader
• [00:24:39] Robyn's ADULTS framework
• [00:30:32] Robyn's media recommendation
• [00:31:57] Takeaways from Pia and Dan

Links

• Connect with Robyn via LinkedIn
• We Used to be Journos – Robyn’s podcast recommendation
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

Too many "best places to work" lists focus on performative, low-cost perks like free breakfasts and dog-friendly offices. But they ignore fundamental issues like fair pay, reasonable working hours, and meaningful parental leave.

Companies often use marketing language to make minimal benefits sound impressive, like claiming "enhanced parental leave" when they're barely exceeding the statutory minimum. This creates a disconnect between how organisations present themselves and the actual employee experience.

Amy Wilson is a commercial consultant advisor, with a background in marketing, who helps companies grow and founders focus on what matters. She mentors young and underrepresented founders, and she joins Dan and Pia to discuss her LinkedIn post critiquing The Times’ Best “Places to Work" list.

Three reasons to listen

• To be mindful of performative workplace benefits that don't actually improve employee experience
• To identify misleading claims about "enhanced" benefits that barely exceed statutory minimums
• To understand how organisational silos and conflicting KPIs lead to workplace policies that prioritise appearance over substance

Episode highlights

• [00:06:48] What constitutes a good place to work?
• [00:10:55] Amy's response to the New York Times Best Business to Work article
• [00:17:09] Allies in name only
• [00:22:14] Why aren't companies doing the right thing?
• [00:25:27] Are things getting worse?
• [00:26:39] What can we do about it?
• [00:33:20] Amy's media recommendation
• [00:36:08] Takeaways from Dan and Pia

Links

• Connect with Amy via LinkedIn
• Amy’s response to the Sunday Times Besst Places to Work article
• Halt and Catch Fire – Amy’s TV recommendation
• Building a thriving culture from the outside in – Episode 58, with Tom Wedge and Marcus Swalwell
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note