The heaviness of being lonely and weary has fallen on the church collectively in the last year. But for many people, this isn't anything new. Many go through seasons, or even huge chunks of their lives living on the outskirts, and told to try harder.

Katie and Gretchen talk about bad church basement coffee, the strength that comes from being together, and ponder where we go from here.

Pre-order Gretchen's new book:

Ragged: Spiritual Disciplines for the Spiritually Exhausted

Support 1517