Mark Sayers, Mark Turman, and Mark Legg discuss the great shift the world is going through, the lingering effects of Covid, how the “gray zone” affects ministry, and how to remain a “non-anxious presence.”

 

Show notes: 

 

Mark Sayers talks about his faith journey and how he started writing (2:14). The three Marks talk about the significance of our culture’s ongoing shift, and the anxiety that comes from it (8:08). Sayers discusses the role of the internet in that shift, and the “hardware” change our culture is going through, focusing on the effects of Covid (12:50). They turn to discuss the culture’s widespread sense of false security, and how abundance leads to us trusting God less (27:16). Sayers digs further into the idea of the “gray zone,” and why confusion leads to anxiety and fear, and how the Bible applies to those struggles (32:14). Sayers ends by discussing the importance of leadership, and why God’s presence is critical in times of transition (43:19).

 

Resources and further reading:

 

• A Non-Anxious Presence: How a Changing and Complex World will Create a Remnant of Renewed Christian Leaders - Mark Sayers
• “How to lead in an unstable culture: Mark Sayers points to the true stronghold in “A Non-anxious Presence” - Mark Legg
• “Exhausted by the news? You may be ‘doomscrolling’”- Mark Legg
• The Coming Tsunami - Jim Denison, Ph.D. 

About the hosts 

 

Dr. Mark Turman is the executive director of Denison Forum. He received his DMin from Truett at Baylor and previously served as lead pastor of Crosspoint Church. 

 

Mark Legg is the Associate Editor for Denison Forum. He graduated from Dallas Baptist University in 2021 with a degree in Philosophy and Biblical Studies.

 

About the guest 

 

Mark Sayers is the senior leader of Red Church in Melbourne, Australia. He is passionate about spiritual renewal and the future of the church. Mark is the author of a number of books including Strange Days and Reappearing Church.  Mark lives in Melbourne with his wife, Trudi, his daughter, Grace, and twin boys, Hudson and Billy.