Alexandra Arroyo-Acevedo [SO/SP 9w1 963(154)] is a brilliant Enneagram thinker with a very evocative and inspiring triple attachment life story. There’s no one I trust more to explain Attachment from the inside. Alexandra’s insights have been transformative for me, and for many in our community. Find her on the Big Hormone Enneagram podcast, on YouTube doing Enneagram breakdowns of the Bachelorette, and on her website, where you can book a natal chart reading with her as well.

WATCH THIS INTERVIEW ON YOUTUBE

Links
Alexandra's Website for Astrology & Enneagram
Alexandra's YouTube Channel for Bachelorette Enneagram Analysis
Big Hormone Enneagram Podcast

For Enneagram Students
The Enneagram School Home Page

Timestamps:

0:00 Intro

3:49 Attachment Support Group Plug

6:03 What happened the first time we tried this interview

10:05 What's different now?

13:23 The importance of being witnessed in playful unself-conscious states

17:08 Prompt: Alexandra’s life story as an SO Bermuda 9

18:56 I was passively accepting, not "choosing" friends / romantic partners

20:42 "Who am I to say no?" - absence of red flags, not looking for green flags; unpacking the word “danger”

24:43 Ex-fiance was "safe"; passively accepted his proposal (!); Attachment: saying yes to the possibility that we could one day be on the same page

29:50 Social 9 -- Not revealing my full mind when others’ eyes gloss over; my inner self not a match for my environment, so I don't put it out there; why 9 needs to go to 3

35:22 Attachment victimhood self-deception: "You're not making space for me" vs I'm withholding myself

37:24 Prolonging relationship: "I was really good at dividing myself”

39:03 The "atomic bomb,” meeting John; Alexandra’s self-revival through online chats about Enneagram; going to New York “the first real action ever took for myself;” framing it to myself as "It's no big deal, if it doesn't work out, I'll just come back home" preemptive defense against being affected

46:20 Numbness prevents 9 from realizing how hungry their soul is; lifeforce has intelligence independent of personality re: what's nourishing / renewing for it

50:58 The lightning strike moment, radical (fast!) change, and the illusion that I've conquered attachment

57:01 How Attachment patterns crept back in

1:00:45 Being anchored to a new rung on the consciousness ladder; not wanting to abandon your new self-sense

1:02:48 Ambivalence toward astrology from being pinned as an "astrology person" -- private sacred interest now exposed to gaze that revs attachment/performance engine

1:08:55 The "practice" of unself-conscious play

1:10:28 Autonomy insistence of 9; making free choices without pressure; knowing that a choice is "mine," made by me

1:13:59 John's mirroring of me to myself, yet constantly re-attuning to what I'm excited by

1:19:05 Social intimacy, choosing and being chosen from your constituted center, grief about emotionally distant friendships, that pattern changing

1:27:41 Sweet Friendship moments

1:30:47 What's this been like? (& how long it took to get this interview, ha!; sign off)

---

Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay

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Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/

---

 #enneagram #enneagramtypes #enneagram9 #enneagramtype9 #enneagraminterview #9w1

Kristen Oberly [SO/SP 9w1 963(172)] is an exceptionally gifted dream analyst, artist, and guide for the unconscious realm. We explore her misdiagnosis with paranoid schizophrenia, her bouts with depersonalization, and the way she has come back home to herself by following her fascination with the unconscious. A very interesting and particular case of Social Bermuda 9, but the core 9 themes are certainly here: numbness, dissociation, and coming back to life by following the natural flow of my life force.

WATCH THIS INTERVIEW ON YOUTUBE

Kristen's Website for Art and Dream Analysis
Sinsomnia Podcast

The Enneagram School's Website

Timestamps

0:00 Intro

5:27 When two bermudas meet; You've made a spash; original contributions: dreams, trifix art -- SO tracking "how people earn respect in this group," getting typed

9:48 Lurking in groups; do you feel like one now? "in shock" that my contribution went anywhere

12:55 Interview anchor points: typing, misdiagnosis paranoid schizophrenia; depersonalization; living in "alternate dimension"

15:22 "She's in her own little world" growing up; hallucinations

19:40 What is paranoid schizophrenia?; relief in diagnosis, being located, "this is what I am," a thing to tell others

23:11 "Betrayal of all 3 centers"

26:10 Timeline of diagnosis & symptoms; what's depersonalization?

32:10 9-ness and depersonalization

35:35 What's helped?

37:30 Guinea pigs screaming -- a dream example that helped you come home to your body

42:31 Physical reality not affecting me, but unconscious dream world waking me up (literally)

45:02 Toggling on/off of existing; checking out

48:05 Genuine inspiration of dreams calling you back alive; Avatar Kristen, interfacing spirit world and physical reality

54:12 SO 9 - fear of making others uncomfortable?

58:38 Kristen's flow state; mastery & precision, poking the nerve, freedom from typology in her moments of interpreting dreams

1:04:52 Kristen's dark witchy vibe & "bite" contrasted with "harmonious" 9 vibe

1:10:16 Kristen's 9 Bermuda Swirl vs Josh's 3 version

1:15:48 Kristen's Art Bermuda Swirl, honing in on "archetypal" art

1:19:46 The Bermuda Swirl's Intelligence

1:26:37 What’s this been like?

---
Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay
Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/
Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/

---

#enneagram #enneagramtypes #enneagram9 #enneagramtype9 #enneagraminterview #9w1

Round 2 with Sarah [SO/SP 9w1 937]. A conversation ABOUT our last conversation, and a very personal look at both of our attachment games. I loved this.

WATCH THIS INTERVIEW ON YOUTUBE

Sarah's Links
Sarah's Music 1
Sarah's Music 2
Sarah's Podcast
Sarah's Instagram

Learn the Enneagram at The Enneagram School.

Timestamps:

0:00 Intro

3:29 Setting up the convo -- why we're here

7:56 First clip

9:53 Sarah pauses. "Floating on the river of meaning" swirling & managing the swirls

15:36 Second clip

16:45 Josh pauses. The moment I almost interrupted, and Sarah feels it.

17:38 More clip

20:16 Sarah pauses. Sarah's SO/SP "preachiness," desire to embrace universal themes

23:27 Sarah: "I kept going because I wasn't sure if you agreed with me"

25:54 "It's all good babe just hold on!"

27:11 The need to have all parts of me known and held (9)

29:48 More clip -- The Shift moment 31:13 Josh pauses. His skepticism that Sarah was connected to herself

33:22 Sarah: the insecurity around being perceived as insincere; calling out 9 dispersion

34:59 SO 9 desperation for social holding; Schema: want social holding -- don't get it -- disperse & numb -- harder to feel if/when I get held now

40:58 You want holding from me, but also you're angry with me -- Attachment games

44:59 Sarah getting social holding back by playing into my frame, "impressing me"

48:54 More clip -- Sarah: "I felt like I was being called a phony"

50:18 More clip -- Josh's "unskillful question"

54:20 Josh takes a breath -- his attachment pattern alive right now

59:09 More clip: "I'm saying what I think you want me to say"

1:00:28 Sarah's desire for more bobble-headedness (familiar social holding); Josh's reflex to self-recrimination when I made someone angry, "what could I have done better?" -- that question being self-abandoning in service of re-attachment strategy!; Josh's version of sarah's "cozying up"

1:06:00 The last 3 min; "I feel like I passed your test"

1:09:27 Attachment 101: Rupture and Repair Cycles; Complexity around Sincerity

1:11:12 Final moments of the interview & the necessity of *this* conversation to complete the repair

1:15:51 What is trust?

---

Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay

Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/

Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/

--- #enneagram #enneagramtypes #enneagram9 #enneagramtype9 #enneagraminterview #9w1

Sarah [SO/SP 9w1 937] is getting her PhD in psychology en route to becoming a therapist. In this conversation, Sarah is quite open and courageous in sharing what it's like for her on the inside of her "swirly 9-7 stem" energy and speaking style and her positive outlook vibes. We also how she accidentally gaslights partners without knowing it, because of how she can blur inner fantasy with outer reality. (I love this part.) We also hit a really interesting conversational glitch that put both of our type patterns on display. We unpack this in a follow up conversation, so stay tuned for round 2.

WATCH THIS INTERVIEW ON YOUTUBE

Sarah's Links
Sarah's Music 1
Sarah's Music 2
Sarah's Podcast
Sarah's Instagram

Learn the Enneagram at The Enneagram School.

Timestamps:

0:00 Intro

2:16 Getting typed, Sarah's typing journey

12:35 Positive outlook of Sarah's 9-7 stem; the facebook group's reaction to her "was an emotional event"

15:56 3 fix, wanting to be / be seen as competent, "let me join the cool kids," show people I can hang

20:02 Sarah's swirling inner cauldron of associations speaking style

22:22 One reason 9s identify as 4

23:23 Eating disorder, psychological function of controlling my attractiveness... but being labeled "sexual blind"; beauty standards more social than sexual

25:39 Why are you a 9 and not a 4? Attachment

29:14 Tone policing as SO 9w1 "asking" the environment to hold me better (socially)

30:24 Attachment to disconnect in long-term relationship; Fantasy & wanting/hoping others will show up differently

36:16 Anger as "no," finding your no

39:12 Positive Outlook "spin"; "People can't worry about me" -- I have to be okay; performative empathy/positivity "vs" sincere optimism

45:42 Unprocessed negativity comes out in close relationships (mom, partner); "I would save that all for them"; the Security Point

53:50 The fantasy image of a relationship, blurring fantasy and reality

57:17 Gaslighting & fantasy; the little girl hoping, "maybe maybe maybe," wishing reality will manifest my fantasy; "But it's always been this way" in my mind

1:03:20 The moment: How are you feeling right now? A disconnect -- a splash, a disruption of the social groove ... and the next few minutes, navigating this

1:05:34 I need others to be listening to me well, so I can be clear in my thinking

1:09:31 Saturated in presence vs dispersed

1:14:29 Power being grounded, concentrated, or "up" and dispersed; tapering

1:18:47 Sarah expressing anger at me! (yes!)

1:20:36 Tapering demo; attachment dynamic: building bridges to others' inner worlds, not trusting they'll want to come to mine

1:23:26 The pain of separating, having melded into this conversation. A mini grief.

---

Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay

Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/ 

Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/ 

---

#enneagram #enneagramtypes #enneagram9 #enneagramtype9 #enneagraminterview #9w1

Emily [SO/SP 8w9 836] is a beautiful example of a heart-forward 8 who has done significant inner work and values her sensitivity. We get into what it means to be in a social "power position," why that's important for her, and what it means to value her vulnerability, among other things. Really good, high resolution introspection. Emily graduated from Yale undergrad and Oxford business school. She also rowed on the Irish national team. She currently works in a purpose-driven startup bringing smoother money transfer services to Africa and beyond.

WATH THIS INTERVIEW ON YOUTUBE

Links
The Enneagram School Website

---

Timestamps

0:00 Intro

0:43 Setting up the convo

3:49 Enneagram origin story; mistyping as 7; skepticism about Enneagram

10:27 8 Basic Fear & Desire, feeling "uncomfortably seen"

11:51 Leaning on being sought after socially; & the self-protection of being in a "power up posiiton"

15:21 the fear of being at the mercy of someone else's control; coming back to self-trust

16:51 Being protective of others; feeling "compelled" into action; "Rallying of every atom in my being"

19:34 Developing discernment, “letting go" when activated, what makes that hard

21:59 Feeling supported when others give their "truly honest opinion"; doing this for others

25:59 Picnic story - calling out a misogynistic joke

30:14 margaritas and bicycle story - "My independence is untouchable by you"

36:03 The appeal of doing a startup; Being alive through "Exerting your creative life force into the world through the lens of business"

41:19 need to feel like i'm on the edge of win or lose

42:04 solo training for a marathon, ice baths, pushing body to limits

43:28 Tough leadership lessons in sports and business

48:21 "I'm a sensitive person," friendship and vulnerability; my vulnerability is valuable

53:15 Why did you say yes to this?

55:16 Plugs!

56:10 Outro

--

#enneagram #enneagram8 #enneagramtypes #enneagrameight #enneagramtype8

---

Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay

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Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/

Czan [SO/SP 9w1 953] is a software engineer for a gaming company and currently lives in the US. He's an original Enneagram thinker, and "Attachment to Disconnect" is his profound insight into how Attachment types create situations to continue reaching for connection, rather than stably connecting. Czan has experience with various inner work modalities and has excellent insights about being an Enneagram 9. I'll add that I experienced his 5 fix vividly in this conversation, which you'll see in the way Czan maintains intellectual separateness.

WATCH THIS INTERVIEW ON YOUTUBE

 Learn the Enneagram at The Enneagram School

---

Timestamps:

0:00 Intro

2:32 Enneagram Origin Story

5:14 Twice an immigrant; adapting to new cultures; 5 fix figuring it out by myself; trauma from this pattern -- no one here like me; "The resolution needs to come in community"; Immigrant as metaphor for attachment

11:34 What grabbed you about the Enneagram? Mistyping as 5; Wanting to talk about the Enneagram without talking about the Enneagram

14:51 NOT an Ennea-vangelist; refuting Josh's suggestion that finding universal language is an attachment dynamic

17:10 Attachment vs Social & desire for belonging? Czan's idea: "The Existential Object" for 4, 5, & 9

20:30 Czan's loud 5-fix, not absorbing others' orientation; couldn't be an academic bc need to converse with other scholars

23:56 So why are you a 9, not a 5?; Czan's theory, 9's seeking "existence" in the world, 5's not

28:10 Toggling on and off; "when I'm observing, nothing's going on inside"

30:18 Dissociating -- when things "start to get muffled"; "Existing" or not existing in relationship

36:03 Merging with others, taking on their discomfort; Best thing I could do for my parents as a kid was "be okay" and not need a lot

37:54 Taking on mom's (& others') emotional burden; I'm helping them carry their heavy luggage, not realizing I have a limit to my emotional capacity

39:14 Internal Family Systems (IFS) & Psychedelics

42:01 The metaconversation (!); paradox 9 relational merging & 5 intellectual independence; Czan's 5 fix "vs" Josh's 6 fix 49:24 Josh's object relations theory & the body center

55:44 Ayahuasca and Owl Medicine; not opening to overwhelm or closing myself off, but preening and holding myself as I move through the world

1:00:26 Reflections; 9's virtue of engagement; taking responsibility for washing myself, so I can stay open to be affected by things, to live

1:03:42 Not wasting anger, taking care of "the mud in me," and "using it to grow lotus flowers"; creativity, passion

1:10:16 Attachment to Disconnect

1:13:57 Fitness, getting into my body, trying to "live" the Enneagram and not just cerebralize it

---

Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay

Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/

Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/

---

#enneagram #enneagramtypes #enneagram9 #enneagramtype9 #enneagraminterview #9w1

TRIGGER WARNING: sensitive content. Nancy Walter (SP/SO 3w4 369) is a co-host on the Big Hormone Enneagram podcast and is currently navigating graduate school in genetics. In this extremely candid interview, we talk about Nancy's childhood, wrestling with severe depression and mental health issues (possibly undiagnosed autism, according to her), her self-discovery through competence in knife salesmanship and sugaring, and the road trip that cemented her choice to live. Enjoy!

WATCH THIS INTERVIEW ON YOUTUBE

The Enneagram School's Website 

Timestamps:

0:00 Intro 

3:51 Interview Start -- Childhood depression, mental health, and the road trip that changed everything 

7:18 Putting on a show" for my therapist at 15 yrs old; fooling the therapist 

14:18 The Road Trip & 3-ness - poetic, redemptive, rejuvenating; being by yourself, outside others' expectations 

16:44 When the fog began to lift, and I began to "choose to be here" 

19:18 Selling cutting knives and going "full 3", then getting sick & having to quit 

22:54 New desk job at gun store 

24:42 Selling knives giving Nancy a chance to feel good at something; contrasting Josh's 3 story with Nancy's; Nancy's mental health condition delaying her 3-ness 

27:27 Quitting selling knives -- framed as an act of self-care, rebellion against sexist workplace, "I wanna do something I wanna do." 

32:47 Sugaring and 3-ness; being good at making old white men like me & pay me; becoming another person for 4 hours, then going home -- in an empowering way 

39:12 The joy of "identity experiments"; self-discovery in sugaring 

43:45 On how important it is for 3s to feel good at something 

46:48 Grief on the road trip; SP looking for home, leading back to yourself; 3s need to find themselves alone in their silence 

50:56 Discovering authentic self through performative relationship; following your nose about what I'm good at 

55:38 Josh's bermuda questions 

58:14 Choosing life path after the road trip? discovering I want to go to school, despite "I don't need school!" 3 persona/image.

1:03:34 Reconstituting identity to "fit this in" -- wanting to go to school 

1:05:23 Practicals of going back to school; discovering I love science, want to study genetics 

1:10:52 Living from "I like this!" instead of "I'm good at this" now 

1:13:05 Now back in Virginia; "Fix first, then mourn"  

1:14:53 What's this been like for you?  

---

Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay

Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/ 

Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/ 

---

 #enneagram #enneagramtypes #enneagram3 #enneagramtype3 #enneagraminterview

Charles is a 42 year old father of four that's been married for more than half his life. He’s started multiple businesses and currently runs a small internet marketing and web agency. He self-describes as a “body type that speaks from the gut while trying to make social connections.”

In this interview, we explore what his 8 “rejection” wing does to his core 9 attachment, his meandering, relaxed conversational style, and what it was like to realize that he’s been operating on autopilot for over 20 years. (!!) We also explore his striking tattoos, the enlivening physicality of getting them, and the way they help him declare his location amidst the murky, triple attachment 9-land. An honest and open glimpse into the inner world of a 9w8.

Note: there was an internet issue during recording, so Charles accidentally spoke over me a few times that I tried to ask a question. He wanted to note that he's not that obtuse :) -- he just couldn't hear.

WATCH THIS INTERVIEW ON YOUTUBE
The Enneagram School Website

---

Timestamps

0:00 Intro

0:41 Plugs: Enneagram School & Expression Library

1:50 Intro to Charles; SO/SP 9w8 963

3:27 Interview Start

5:15 Charles' recent "resensitization" transformation; not crying for 20 years; autopilot

10:28 Josh's question and Charles' "off-road" response

12:33 Coming back to life; what's happened recently, resensitization; from numb to being flooded with emotions, randomly

17:29 Decades of putting myself aside, fulfilling "roles," being in the groove; setting up projections onto other people, resentments about pressure

22:59 The numb state; not noticing butterflies in my stomach; "shutting off"

27:39 What would other people notice if you're numb?

28:29 Feelings being too much for me; even good feelings; seeking the goldilocks state

32:09 Comparing 8, 9, 1's relationship to numbing

33:31 Tattoo's! -- locating myself & my positions, socially abrasive to my conservative neighborhood

39:03 The physical nature of getting tattoos; sensory awakening, un-numbing, bringing me back to life; some pain as "good" feeling

41:58 Using sense of smell more

43:37 Relationship with anger

48:19 Exploring the volume of Charles' voice

49:49 The meandering conversational style; outer swirling mimics inner swirling

54:17 Are you motivated to be more "focused" in your speaking?

58:44 A la David Gray: 8 wing giving 9 permission to be as 9 as it wants to be

1:02:56 What's this been like for you?

---

Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay

Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/

Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/

---

#enneagram #enneagramtypes #enneagram9 #enneagramtype9 #enneagraminterview #9w8 #trifix

Kier  [SO/SP 3w2 358(267)] is a trial lawyer, dad, and frequent commenter on Enneagram discussion boards like the Enneagrammer Universe Facebook group. This is our second conversation — we didn’t publish the first one for reasons we explore in the interview. This is a really special conversation that captures a 3 (and 3w2, 358 trifix no less) freshly embarking on the journey of interior excavation, exploring his sensitivity, and asking questions like, “Why the secrecy?” “What am I really afraid of?” Really, really good stuff.

WATCH THIS INTERVIEW ON YOUTUBE
The Enneagram School Website

Timestamps
0:00 Intro
0:30 Plugs: The Enneagram School & Enneagram Expressions Library
3:21 Intro to Kier
5:02 Interview Start
8:50 The email exchange btwn me and Kier; his desire to prepare, then softening towards having a more "spontaneously authentic" conversation
11:40 Difficulty with spontaneous authenticity; "I don't spend much time processing my internal state"; avoidance through activity
14:54 Mistyping as 8 & "Coming out as a 3"; Kier's childhood, family history of depression, a major car crash
19:16 Needing to be the strong one very young; didn't have a chance to be a vulnerable little kid; trained myself not to need what I wasn't getting
25:26 This being fresh / new territory for Kier; lots to excavate; my life set up to PREVENT excavation
30:08 ”Coming out as a 3" -- Kier's email; "I feel like a cat that's used up 7 lives already." "I'm just a bleeding heart type, I hope nobody notices”
32:42 What was it like to been seen through, and what's the nature of your sensitivity?; Sensitivity to being surprised, resistance to spontaneity... (image commentary here?)
38:22 Kier’s softening over our email exchange; the importance for Kier of Josh letting Kier's concerns be okay
41:00 Hiddenness, secrecy, paranoia; ”The heart can be so easily denied"; "People can always thwart a 3's objective by refusing to give admiration”
46:20 Cultural dynamics regarding the Heart
51:44 3 as heart blind heart type being “part of the problem”
55:20 workaholism, being "human doing"
59:39 what would surface if you slowed down? are you motivated to keep digging?
1:03:50 Kier’s "I'm not giving up speech" (see end)
1:08:37 The yolk
1:10:44 how are you feeling now?
1:13:55 More on conversational dynamics from last time
1:18:31 Thanks for pulling back the hood; we've done our job because it's uncomfortable
1:19:59 Kier’s Oscar Winning "I'm Not Giving Up" Speech

---

Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay
Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/
Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/

---

#enneagram #enneagramtypes #enneagram3 #enneagramtype3 #enneagraminterview

Emma is an Enneagram coach and mom, and she has her own podcast called There Are No Tangents. In this conversation, you get to see Emma model presence in the mental center as she incorporates a new insight about herself with rather amazing openness. Her self-owns about accommodating people resentfully and "throwing a stink" are charming and helpful distinctions regarding 6s duality of being both an Attachment and a Reactive Type. A pleasure of an interview. Enjoy.

WATCH THIS INTERVIEW ON YOUTUBE

Links
Emma's Coaching Website
Emma's podcast
Emma's instagram: @theenneagramconnection

The Enneagram School Homepage
Class on the Centers

Timestamps:

0:00 Intro

0:34 The Enneagram School is live! First class Jan 19

1:57 Intro to Emma

4:47 Interview start; her hours leading up to the interview, SO 6 strategy of stating "I'm nervous" to give yourself slack / wiggle room from self-imposed standards

8:19 enneagram origin story

12:25 Niklas's 2 Interview revealing her 2 fix

15:17 1 fix vs 9 fix; talking with my hands; 6 verbal style, 1 precision motions

20:15 People Pleasing -- an amazing journey on this word; going along with other but making a stink about it

29:03 "Maybe we've realized I'm not a people pleaser after all"; therapist authority said so -- how I came to believe it in the first place

31:43 "Resentful accommodation" - 6 self-image of adapting to others, not realizing how much space I'm taking up with my stink-throwing

36:25 6 not "swallowing truth whole" from authorities -- finding evidence, making it fit, etc

41:11 Planning, preparing; "Making everything is a bigger problem than it needs to be."

46:45 6ness as "Problem solving" -- what it means for something to be a problem

51:53 Amplification of the problem depends on my "state"

55:02 Anxiety as a "baseline heigtening of the nervous system"; alertness

1:00:46 Settling mental activity to be present with my kids

1:03:40 being present with your kids from each of the centers

1:09:05 what's this been like for you?

---

Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay

Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/

Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/

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#enneagram #enneagramtypes #enneagram6 #enneagramtype6 #enneagraminterview