When will we be out of the COVID pandemic phase?

It's a question that we've been asking since the very beginning of the pandemic: when will it really end?

It's easy to think that because people are vaccinated and less attention is paid to COVID, it's over. 

In reality more than 5000 people have died of COVID this year, and the disease burden rises every time there's a new variant.

On today's Coronacast, a chat with Professor Brendan Crabb, an infectious disease expert who heads up the Burnet Institute on how he thinks the past several years have gone, and whether COVID will remain a forever virus.