Where Work Meets Life™ with Dr. Laura

Dr. Laura welcomes Brigid Schulte, journalist, think tank program director, keynote speaker, and author of the best-selling book, Overwhelmed: Work, Love, and Play When No One Has the Time. Brigid is currently the Director of the Better Life Lab and her latest book Over Work: Transforming the Daily Grind in the Quest for a Better Life, focuses on how our lives can improve by examining overwork.  She and Dr. Laura discuss what contributes to overwork and how we can make meaningful changes in work in terms of policy, gender equality, and cultural attitudes and behaviors. 

The notion of overwork is not exclusive to Western cultures and in researching Over Work, Brigid spent time in Japan and other countries in addition to studying American work attitudes. In Japan there is a word for when people die from overwork: karoshi. Brigid wants to understand what drives people to overwork and how change can be made at a cultural level. She describes the symptoms and ultimate results of overwork with Dr. Laura and their discussion examines why all work should be good work, rewarded with a liveable wage and dignity in whatever job is being done. This episode digs deep into why we value working too much instead of valuing the work itself and how it contributes not just to our personal gain but to the common good and shared prosperity.    

“I argue that we need to think much differently about what work is, that work is not only what we do for pay, it is also all of the unpaid work of care and home that women have mainly done for generations … We need to consider that work. But we also need to be thinking about the contributions we make to our communities, to our society, and thinking about reclaiming the sense of why we work, not necessarily for personal enrichment or GDP growth or the stock market.” Brigid Schulte

About Brigid Schulte:

Brigid Schulte is an award-winning journalist and bestselling author. She was a staff writer at the Washington Post and Washington Post magazine for nearly 17 years, and part of a team that won the Pulitzer Prize. In addition to the Post, her work has appeared in, among other places, the Atlantic, the Boston Globe, The Guardian, Slate, Time, CNN, The Toronto Globe & Mail and Quartz. She has been quoted in numerous media outlets and has appeared on numerous TV and radio programs including NBC Nightly News, Good Morning America, BBC World News, and NPR’s Fresh Air, Morning Edition and On Point.

Brigid’s first book, Overwhelmed: Work, Love and Play When No One Has the Time, about time pressure, gender and leisure, was a New York Times bestseller, named a notable book of the year by the Washington Post and NPR, and won the Virginia Library award for literary nonfiction.

She has spoken all over the world about time, productivity, the causes and consequences of our unsustainable, always-on culture, and how to make time for Work, Love and Play by rethinking how we work so that it’s effective, sustainable and fair. She is currently the director of the Better Life Lab, the work-family justice and intersectional gender equity program at New America, a nonpartisan think tank.

She lives in Alexandria, Virginia, with her husband, Tom Bowman, a reporter for National Public Radio, and their two children. She grew up in Portland, Oregon and spent her summers with family in Wyoming, where she did not feel overwhelmed.

Resources:

Website: BrigidSchulte.com

Podcast: Better Life Lab

“Over Work: Transforming the Daily Grind in the Quest for a Better Life” by Brigid Schulte

LinkedIn

“Dying for a Paycheck” by Jeffrey Pfeffer

Healthy Work Campaign

Karoshi Syndrome

Learn more about Dr. Laura on her website: https://drlaura.live

For more resources, look into Dr. Laura’s organizations: 

Canada Career Counselling

Synthesis Psychology

Dr. Laura reflects on the past four years as she welcomes everyone to Season Five of Where Work Meets Life™. In looking back through nearly one hundred episodes, she reiterates her desire to help people and organizations thrive, find career fulfillment, and advocate for a better world. What, then, does Season Five hold for us? Dr. Laura gives a glimpse into the future and the pressing issues she will continue to research and pursue as well as those she is revisiting to shine more light on.

Employee mental health concerns, burnout, and overwork are increasing in young workers and Dr. Laura’s first guest of the new season, Brigid Schulte, wrote a book called “Over Work: Transforming the Daily Grind in the Quest for a Better Life” to address exactly these issues. Dr. Laura will continue to focus on growth and evolution, discussing the importance of overcoming trauma for leaders with author Kelly Campbell (“Heal to Lead”) and finding meaning in life with artist Tresa Gibson. She also revisits a terrible and difficult subject matter that nonetheless requires us all to look at unflinchingly: exploring the reality of human trafficking with producer Conroy Kanter and author Alan Smyth. Season Five will bring a wealth of insight into toxic bosses and their equally toxic leadership, as well as career fulfillment and how to thrive in this challenging but beautiful world. 

“So this is a warning call for organizational leaders to really double down on investing in your culture and your leadership development. And employee wellbeing declined despite a lot of talk about the importance of mental wellness; the talk is not leading to action. It's not changing things.”  Dr. Laura

About Dr. Laura:

Dr. Laura Hambley Lovett is a work and career psychologist and thought leader on the evolution of work. She has always been fascinated by how work intersects with life and loves to use her expertise to improve organizations and help people thrive. Her passion for taking creative ideas and launching them into successful business strategies led her to start three counselling psychology practices (Calgary Career Counselling, Canada Career Counselling, and Synthesis Psychology), as well as six different business brands offering organizational assessment and consulting services.

Dr. Laura is honoured to have been selected as a Woman of Distinction in Canada in 2014 and received a Canadian Woman of Inspiration Award as a Global Influencer in 2018.

Resources:

“Overwork: Transforming the Daily Grind in the Quest for a Better Life” by Brigid Schulte 

“Heal to Lead: Revolutionizing Leadership through Trauma Healing”t by Kelly Campbell 

Tresa Gibson

“Men! Fight For Me: The Role of Authentic Masculinity in Ending Sexual Exploitation and Trafficking” by Alan Smyth and Jessica Midkiff

Trafficked - produced by Conroy Kanter

Dr. Laura on LinkedIn

Where Work Meets Life™ on YouTube

Learn more about Dr. Laura on her website: https://drlaura.live

For more resources, look into Dr. Laura’s organizations: 

Canada Career Counselling

Synthesis Psychology

Dr. Laura’s exploration into the topic of toxic bosses continues in this episode. During her extensive research on the subject of toxic bosses, she learned a great deal that she is compelled to share and is writing a book based on her findings set to publish in 2025. Her research is continuous and each insight she gains is passed on to listeners in these solo episodes. This time Dr. Laura instructs on how to identify three specifically brutal types of toxic bosses, detailing how they operate and what they are looking to gain.

The first persona Dr. Laura identifies is that of a dishonest manipulator. Bosses of this type are inherently dishonest people and create an environment of mistrust in their team due to chronic lying. The second persona of a toxic boss is that of a great divider. This type prefers to cause dissension and conflict in their teams by pitting people against each other. And the third persona identified is the unethical corrupter. This boss lacks integrity to the point of corruption. They’re not just dishonest, they’re corrupt and unethical. Dr. Laura breaks down the mindset and actions of each type of toxic boss, explains how they will attack and undermine us, and gives straightforward advice on how to handle their toxicity. 

“People are not at their best when they're reporting to a toxic boss. In fact, it depletes their energy. It depletes their creativity and innovation. They live in a state of fear with high anxiety, and their self-esteem and confidence get eroded over time.”  Dr. Laura

About Dr. Laura:

Dr. Laura Hambley Lovett is a work and career psychologist and thought leader on the evolution of work. She has always been fascinated by how work intersects with life and loves to use her expertise to improve organizations and help people thrive. Her passion for taking creative ideas and launching them into successful business strategies led her to start three counselling psychology practices (Calgary Career Counselling, Canada Career Counselling, and Synthesis Psychology), as well as six different business brands offering organizational assessment and consulting services.

Dr. Laura is honoured to have been selected as a Woman of Distinction in Canada in 2014 and received a Canadian Woman of Inspiration Award as a Global Influencer in 2018.

Resources:

Learn more about Dr. Laura on her website: https://drlaura.live

For more resources, look into Dr. Laura’s organizations: 

Canada Career Counselling

Synthesis Psychology

Dr. Laura welcomes Oscar Trimboli, award-winning author, podcast host, and global expert on listening, to the show to talk about listening and how our inability to listen properly is hurting us at work and beyond. Oscar worked extensively in marketing and technology in his career and has a lot of experience in consulting with organizations, all of which give him great insight into the way people listen, or don’t listen, to each other and how to change that.

Oscar traces his work in listening back to a boardroom in 2008 where he was challenged by the CEO’s statement to him: “If you could code how you listen, you could change the world”. He explains that the difference between hearing and listening is action. His new book, How to Listen, addresses research on the subject of listening as well as guidance into listening to what is said and not simply our interpretations of what we hear. Dr. Laura and Oscar discuss different ineffective listening styles that people often fall into and Oscar’s tips on how to improve listening. Oscar’s insight will resonate with everyone who hears this episode and challenge us to really listen, and not just hear, what he’s saying. 

“So please just be conscious that you can improve your listening simply by asking people one extra question, or simply by knowing that the word listen and the word silent have exactly the same letters. So if you just wanted one tip from our conversation today, that would be it. … Therefore just be silent just a little bit longer and you'll be surprised. That breath they've taken doesn't mean they've finished what they're saying. They're just collecting their thoughts.” Oscar Trimboli

About Oscar Trimboli:

Oscar Trimboli is an author, host of the Apple award-winning podcast Deep Listening and a sought-after keynote speaker. Along with the Deep Listening Ambassador Community, he is on a quest to create 100 million deep listeners in the workplace.

Through his work with chairs, boards of directors, and executive teams, Oscar has experienced first-hand the transformational impact leaders can have when they listen beyond words. He believes that when leadership teams focus their attention and listening, they will build organizations that create powerful legacies for the people they serve – today and, more importantly, for future generations.

Oscar is a marketing and technology industry veteran working for Microsoft, PeopleSoft, Polycom, and Vodafone. He consults with organizations, including American Express, AstraZeneca, Cisco, Google, HSBC, IAG, Montblanc, PwC, Salesforce, Sanofi, SAP, and Siemens. He is the author of how to listen – discover the hidden key to better communication – the most comprehensive book about listening in the workplace, Deep Listening – Impact beyond words and Breakthroughs: How to Confront Assumptions

Oscar loves his afternoon walks with his wife, Jennie, and their dog Kilimanjaro. On the weekends, you will find him playing Lego with his grandchildren.

Resources:

Website: OscarTrimboli.com

Oscar Trimboli Podcast: Deep Listening - Impact beyond words

“how to listen: discover the hidden key to better communication” by oscar trimboli

Oscar Trimboli on LinkedIn

“The Square and the Tower: Networks and Power, from the Freemasons to Facebook” by Niall Ferguson

Learn more about Dr. Laura on her website: https://drlaura.live

For more resources, look into Dr. Laura’s organizations: 

Canada Career Counselling

Synthesis Psychology

Dr. Laura welcomes Dr. Marie-Hélène Pelletier, leadership psychologist, executive coach, and author, to the show to tackle the issue of resilience. Resilience is a quality that increases our ability to handle stress and bounce back from setbacks with greater ease. But how do we identify healthy ways to develop resilience and to tap into it when needed? How can it assist our work performance? Marie-Hélène answers these questions in her new book “The Resilience Plan: A Strategic Approach to Optimizing Your Work Performance and Mental Health” and shares key insights in this episode. 

In working with her clients through executive coaching and in her speaking work, Marie-Hélène would hear feedback about how helpful her knowledge of resilience was. That led her to write this book so she could share the message with a greater audience. Resilience, according to Marie-Hélène, is the skill we need to hone to deal with the chronic demands at work and life in general. In her book, she walks us through analyzing the demands on our time and how to create a strategic plan to strengthen our resilience through action. The ideas that Dr. Pelletier shares are uniquely positioned to help us survive increasing patterns of burnout and her ideas can be tailored to each of our individual needs. 

“Then you may have had people around you that tell you, oh, you're so resilient, we can give you anything and it always works. And then they'll start calling you the rock, the rock of the team, the rock of the family. And so you get to a point where you buy it, you associate with that idea. It feels like it's an identity. And that's a trap because we know from research [that] resilience is not a personality trait. It's a state.” Dr. Marie-Hélène Pelletier

About Dr. Marie-Hélène Pelletier:

Throughout her career in business management and psychology, Dr. Pelletier has spearheaded the dialogue on the crucial issues of leadership resilience and work performance. Drawing on her extensive background in corporate, insurance, governance and public sectors, she brings an international perspective and unique expertise on leadership. She is a practicing leadership psychologist and executive coach with over 20 years of experience and holds a Ph.D. and an MBA from the University of British Columbia. Marie-Hélène is a Member of the Global Clinical Practice Network of the World Health Organization and past Director on the boards of the Canadian Psychological Association and the International Association of Applied Psychology. She has presented, authored and co-authored a number of industry and academic publications and has won numerous academic and industry awards. In 2024, Dr. Pelletier published her award-winning book, The Resilience Plan: A Strategic Approach to Optimizing Your Work Performance and Mental Health.

Resources:

Website: DrMarie-Helene.com

Dr. Marie-Hélène Pelletier on LinkedIn

“The Resilience Plan: A Strategic Approach to Optimizing Your Work Performance and Mental Health” by Marie-Hélène Pelletier, PhD MBA

Sarah Marquis books

Learn more about Dr. Laura on her website: https://drlaura.live

For more resources, look into Dr. Laura’s organizations: 

Canada Career Counselling

Synthesis Psychology

Dr. Laura welcomes Dr. Lynn Imai, a Registered Psychotherapist, Clinical Director at Canada Career Counselling, and Assistant Professor of Organizational Behaviour at Ivey Business School, to the show to talk in-depth about careers and career changes. Lynn works at the national psychology practice Dr. Laura founded, and the conversation with Lynn digs into practical and psychological insights, delving into how to change, choose, and assess careers.

Dr. Lynn Imai understands the uncertainty that can accompany a major career change as she did one herself, pivoting from being a full-time professor teaching global leadership at a business school to being a registered psychotherapist with a career counselling focus. The expectations, pressures, and anxieties of such a move inform much of how she relates to clients. She and Dr. Laura discuss what not to do when choosing a career and how to manage the worry that comes with navigating a drastic change in one’s career. This episode serves as a starting point for anyone who wants to start on a new career path or is just beginning to decide what their career journey will look like. 

“I do think that the traditional career path [of] climbing the ladder is breaking apart a little bit in society and you see a lot of people taking career breaks or changing their careers, doing nontraditional work, you know, shared work gigs, coming back in from retirement. But what's interesting is, psychologically, people still tie their self-worth to the traditional notions of success, like money, prestige and title and those things. And so a lot of my work is helping them undo what they've learned.” Dr. Lynn Imai

About Lynn Imai:

Lynn Imai, Ph.D., is a Registered Psychotherapist and Career Counsellor in Toronto. Many of Lynn’s clients, when they first come to her, are at a critical point in their lives. They are questioning their careers and asking themselves why they do what they do. They are often feeling unfulfilled, purposeless, and stuck between the pain of staying where they are in their careers, and the pain of dealing with the confusion, overwhelm, stress, and anxiety of figuring out what comes next.

Lynn’s approach to career counselling draws on psychotherapy, which helps her clients manage difficult emotions and develop deep self-awareness, while at the same time, focusing on making strategic, informed decisions with practical action planning. In addition to career counselling, Lynn provides psychotherapy on personal issues such as stress, anxiety, depression, low confidence & self-esteem, relationships, and interpersonal issues. Lynn draws from a variety of evidence-based psychotherapy modalities including Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT) and Interpersonal Psychotherapy (IPT).

Outside her clinical work, Lynn is a recognized expert on organizational behaviour, workplace effectiveness, culture & diversity, and global leadership. As a former professor at Ivey Business School (Western University), Lynn’s research and teaching have focused on how individuals can develop as global leaders in workplace contexts such as cross-cultural negotiations, global virtual teams, and strategy consulting in emerging markets. Lynn’s research has appeared in top-tier academic journals, and both her research and teaching have garnered national press coverage.

Personally, Lynn is a “third culture kid” who grew up in Japan, the U.S., Canada, and Belgium, and brings a multicultural perspective to therapy. She obtained her Hon. BSc. in Psychology from the University of Toronto—Trinity College, and her M.Psy. in Clinical and Counselling Psychology from Adler Graduate Professional School. Lynn also has graduate degrees in Industrial/Organizational Psychology from the University of Maryland—College Park.

Resources:

Website: CanadaCareerCounselling.com

Lynn Imai on LinkedIn

Lynn Imai at Ivey Business School

“Evolution to Purpose: Choosing a Life of Authenticity with Work” by Bryan Hong PhD

The Happiness Lab podcast

Learn more about Dr. Laura on her website: https://drlaura.live

For more resources, look into Dr. Laura’s organizations: 

Canada Career Counselling

Synthesis Psychology

Dr. Laura explores more on the subject of toxic bosses, a topic she is passionate about researching for the benefit of people suffering under one. In this episode, she explains some of the defining and brutal behaviors of a toxic boss. Since a toxic boss can be anyone from a first-time manager to a CEO, it’s the psychological and physical health damage they cause to people working under them that makes them toxic. Understanding their behavior will help people to identify a toxic boss and, ideally, leave their sphere of control.

There are fourteen categories of behaviors that Dr. Laura and her research assistant, Renee Pye, have learned through their study. Toxic bosses have many different ways of presenting themselves. Dr. Laura addresses three types of behavior in detail today: 1. Control and micromanagement, 2. Power dynamics and favoritism, and 3. Self-serving and exploitative behavior. She describes each set of behaviors in detail, addressing how the toxic boss comes across and the damage they inflict. The more information Dr. Laura uncovers and shares about toxic bosses, the sooner people struggling under them can see warning signs and get help to navigate the situation.

“The only way to know if a leader is a great leader, a mediocre leader, or a toxic leader, is to find out from the people that report to him or her. So with that said, I think that whether the leader is controlling and micromanaging, whether they're creating power dynamics and divides in their team, or whether they're self-serving and exploiting others, all of these things are brutal behaviors and are causing a lot of harm to people.”  Dr. Laura

About Dr. Laura:

Dr. Laura Hambley Lovett is a work and career psychologist and thought leader on the evolution of work. She has always been fascinated by how work intersects with life and loves to use her expertise to improve organizations and help people thrive. Her passion for taking creative ideas and launching them into successful business strategies led her to start three counselling psychology practices (Calgary Career Counselling, Canada Career Counselling, and Synthesis Psychology), as well as six different business brands offering organizational assessment and consulting services.

Dr. Laura is honoured to have been selected as a Woman of Distinction in Canada in 2014 and received a Canadian Woman of Inspiration Award as a Global Influencer in 2018.

Resources:

Learn more about Dr. Laura on her website: https://drlaura.live

For more resources, look into Dr. Laura’s organizations: 

Canada Career Counselling

Synthesis Psychology

Dr. Laura welcomes special guest Erin Diehl to the show to talk about radical empathy and Erin’s new book “I See You!: A Leader’s Guide to Energizing Your Team Through Radical Empathy”. Erin Diehl is a Business Improv Edutainer, author, and keynote speaker who hosts the improve it! podcast. Dr. Laura and Erin talk about Erin’s recent journey of self-exploration and why she was called to write her book after emerging from an oppressive hustle mentality.

Erin understands how people get to a place of being overloaded, stressed, burnt out, and feeling like they don’t matter. Her desire through the book and her work is to help people, including leaders, give to themselves and take moments of self-reflection. She shares her journey through struggles with infertility and the physical pain that came from overwork. Erin’s story of how she decluttered her life, found her purpose, and claimed inner peace is inspiring. The revelations and discoveries in her book are for everyone to apply to their own lives, especially those in management positions so toxic leadership can be replaced by leaders who are empathetic and supportive.

“And it's so crazy how our thoughts really affect every cell in our body. And I'll tell you this, I didn't heal, I had chronic back pain, like shoulder pain and back pain that was so tight... I would literally cry myself to sleep at night because I was just so frustrated. … I took every ergonomic chair on Amazon into my office. I tried all the things, all the pillows, and went to all the doctors. And no one could say what was wrong. And I finally realized it was just my own mental emotions and my own thoughts that were really stagnating me. And I had not dealt with a lot of things.” Erin Diehl

About Erin Diehl:

Erin “Big” Diehl is a Business Improv Edutainer, Failfluencer, and Professional Zoombie. Through a series of unrelated dares, Erin created improve it!, a unique professional development company that pushes others to laugh, learn, play, and grow. Among her many accolades, Erin is most proud of successfully coercing over 30,000 professionals to chicken dance.

Erin Diehl is a graduate of Clemson University, and a former experiential marketing and recruiting professional as well as a veteran improviser from the top improvisational training programs in Chicago, including The Second City, i.O. Theater and The Annoyance Theatre.

Erin has spoken on global stages both virtually and in person - with companies like Uber Freight, Walgreens, Motorola, LinkedIn and The Obama Foundation (to name a few)! She is a member of The Chicago Innovation Awards Women’s Cohort and a graduate of the Goldman Sachs 10,000 Small Business Program. She is also the proud host of a Top 1% Global Podcast, The improve it! Podcast, which you can find anywhere you listen to pods!

When she's not playing pretend or facilitating, she enjoys walking on the beach with her husband, son, and eight-pound toy poodle, BIGG DIEHL.

Resources:

Website: LearnToImproveIt.com

The improve it! Podcast

Erin Diehl on Instagram

“I See You!: A Leader’s Guide to Energizing Your Team Through Radical Empathy” by Erin Diehl

Marie Kondo

“When the Body Says No: The Cost of Hidden Stress” by Gabor Maté MD

Bestseller Masterclass with Gabby Bernstein

“The Artist’s Way” by Julia Cameron

Learn more about Dr. Laura on her website: https://drlaura.live

For more resources, look into Dr. Laura’s organizations: 

Canada Career Counselling

Synthesis Psychology

Dr. Laura is pleased to welcome special guest Dr. Bill Howatt to the show to talk about mental health in the workplace and the myths surrounding it. Bill Howatt is the Founder of Howatt Human Resources Consulting and an international expert in workplace psychology and psychological health and safety. His newest book, out of 60 written throughout his career, is titled No Regrets and focuses on the very issue of workplace mental health and what can be done about it.

Dr. Howatt describes how the pandemic inspired his latest book, No Regrets, by detailing how he noticed people languishing instead of flourishing and realized that we have never really been taught how to deal with the unpleasant emotions that are part of existence. His book is a strategy of sorts to help people move through unpleasant emotions and work on their mental fitness. Dr. Laura and Dr. Howatt explore why the quick band-aid fixes of pop-up wellness programs in workplaces are not addressing the underlying mental health crisis and what leaders should be doing instead. The conversation covers a lot of ground and brings fundamental issues to light, providing a roadmap for improvement.

“Mental health literacy in our country, we haven't really gotten sophisticated yet in this conversation where we confuse mental illness with mental health. So mental illness is a functional impairment very much like being deaf and it impacts your potential to function to your potential. Where mental health is different. It's basically how we are actually seeing the world and experiencing the world through our emotions.” Dr. Bill Howatt

About Dr. Bill Howatt:

Dr. Bill Howatt is the founder of Howatt Human Resources Consulting and an international expert in Workplace Psychological Health and Safety. 

He is a highly sought-after speaker on leadership, mental fitness, and creating inclusive, psychologically healthy and safe workplaces. A behavioural scientist, he is passionate about supporting employees and leaders to create thriving workplaces. 

Dr. Bill’s 30-plus years of professional experience includes providing services in clinical mental health, teaching courses for colleges and universities, being a committee chair, and filling various senior leadership roles in Canada and the United States, including the Wall Street financial district. His firm provides HR consulting globally, focusing on employees’ psychological safety. 

Dr. Bill has published over 60 books and 600 articles and regularly contributes to workplace mental health research like WSPS Moving to Action: Implementing Workplace Safety and Prevention Services’ Mental Harm Prevention Roadmap and Boston Consulting Group’s recent study, The Next Frontier of Workplace Culture, viewed by over 30 million readers. 

He is the founder of www.MFIQinc.com and creator of the University New Brunswick’s Certificate of Completion in Psychologically Safe Leadership. He publishes a weekly workplace mental health newsletter for leaders and workers called Exploring Workplace Mental Health. 

Resources:

Website: BillHowatt.com

LinkedIn

“No Regrets: How to Live Today for Tomorrow’s Emotional Well-Being” by Dr. Bill Howatt

“Navigating Workplace Wellness Programs in the Age of Technology and Big Data” by Hannah-Kaye Fleming for the ‘Journal of Science Policy & Governance’

Learn more about Dr. Laura on her website: https://drlaura.live

For more resources, look into Dr. Laura’s organizations: 

Canada Career Counselling

Synthesis Psychology

Sponsor For This Podcast:

This episode is brought to you by The improve it! Podcast with Erin Diehl, a top 1% global podcast.

Are you ready to transform your life through laughter, lifelong learning, and a little bit of improv magic?

Well, get ready because The improve it! Podcast with Erin Diehl is here to add a dose of playfulness to your Wednesdays. Erin sits down with personal and professional development gurus to explore the pesky and beautiful aspects of life. They dive deep into the things that make us tick, laugh, and sometimes even cringe. 

You can find The improve it! Podcast on Apple, Spotify, or learntoimproveit.com. Subscribe today!

Dr. Laura welcomes best-selling author, speaker, consultant, and president of Careerstone Group, Mary Abbajay, to the show to talk about her book Managing Up: How to Move Up, Win at Work, and Succeed with Any Type of Boss. Through Careerstone Group, Mary offers different organizational and leadership solutions for businesses and government. Her vast experience with all types of bosses, which her book focuses on, compliments Dr. Laura’s research into the toxic ones.

Mary speaks to how the relationship with one’s boss needs to be managed and requires effort to be productive. Through her work, she hears a lot of complaining from both sides without evidence that there’s enough attention put towards creating a positive relationship. Mary and Dr. Laura discuss the differences between sucking up and managing up, the positive reactions from bosses and managers to her book, why HR may not be the best place to get help for dealing with a toxic boss, and how to handle toxic management in the workplace. This conversation is filled with real insight from Mary’s experience dealing with all manner of leadership. 

“But managing up the way I see it is about not managing the person, but managing that relationship. It's like taking that power differential and turning it on its side, because in a relationship we all have agency, right? We all have advocacy. And so managing up is about making a concerted and intentional, sometimes a strategic effort to build a productive and positive working relationship so that you can succeed.” Mary Abbajay

About Mary Abbajay:

Mary Abbajay, author of the best-selling, award-winning Managing Up: How to Move Up, Win at Work, and Succeed with Any Type of Boss is the president of Careerstone Group, LLC, a full-service organizational and leadership development consultancy that delivers leading-edge talent and organizational development solutions to business and government. As a sought-after author, speaker, consultant, and trainer, Mary helps clients develop the strategies, skills and sensibilities needed for success in the 21st century. Mary is the co-host of the weekly workplace advice podcast, Cubicle Confidential, and is a highly-rated LinkedIn Learning instructor. As a frequent expert contributor for television, radio, and print publications Mary provides practical leadership and career guidance. Her work and advice have appeared in the New York Times, Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, Forbes, The Financial Times, The Wall Street Journal, the Huffington Post, Money Magazine, Southwest Airlines Magazine, CNN.com, Monster, CNBC, and the BBC. 

Resources:

Website: CareerstoneGroup.com | ManagingUpTheBook.com

Mary Abbajay on Instagram

Mary Abbajay on LinkedIn

Mary Abbajay on YouTube
Podcast: Cubicle Confidential

“Managing up: How to Move Up, Win at Work, and Succeed with Any Type of Boss” by Mary Abbajay

Learn more about Dr. Laura on her website: https://drlaura.live

For more resources, look into Dr. Laura’s organizations: 

Canada Career Counselling

Synthesis Psychology

Sponsor For This Podcast:

This episode is brought to you by The improve it! Podcast with Erin Diehl, a top 1% global podcast.

Are you ready to transform your life through laughter, lifelong learning, and a little bit of improv magic?

Well, get ready because The improve it! Podcast with Erin Diehl is here to add a dose of playfulness to your Wednesdays. Erin sits down with personal and professional development gurus to explore the pesky and beautiful aspects of life. They dive deep into the things that make us tick, laugh, and sometimes even cringe. 

You can find The improve it! Podcast on Apple, Spotify, or learntoimproveit.com. Subscribe today!