This episode originally aired on July 10, 2025. 

Americans have a long history of obsession with the ultrarich, from Carnegie and Rockefeller to Bezos and Musk. And today, the gap between the rich and the poor is bigger than ever as the billionaire class has ascended to new heights. In his book, The Haves and Have-Yachts, New Yorker staff writer Evan Osnos explores the extravagant lifestyles of the wealthy and their outsize influence on politics. He sat down with Apple News In Conversation host Shumita Basu to talk about this unique moment — when billionaires are both resented and envied by the public — and what it means for the rest of us.