We just got back from a little weekend trip, which got us thinking once again about how confusing and terrible it is to deal with the TSA. Despite all their yelling—the TSA does not make it clear about what you can or cannot bring on a plane, or what items you actually have to take out of your bag. So I spoke with Darryl Campbell, an aviation safety writer for The Verge and author of Fatal Abstraction, who did a deep dive on The Humiliating History of the TSA.

For more, check out our newsletter at www.nosuchthing.show, and if you have an argument you want us to settle, email us at [email protected].

Original music for this episode produced by Zeno Pittarelli!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.