Why Does It Feel So Wrong To Be Human At Work?

Season 2, Episode 5: Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be an A**hole at Work?

Episode Description

We said what we said. In this bold and uncensored episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee are joined by internal comms legend Chuck Gose to take on the big question that no one talks about—but everyone experiences:

Why does it feel so wrong (yet so common) to act like an a**hole at work?

Together, they dive into:

• How to define “a**holery” (yes, it’s a spectrum)
• Why even good people act badly under pressure
• How work culture breeds incivility, and how to stop it
• The difference between bluntness and toxic behavior
• Cultural, psychological, and power dynamics behind a**hole behavior
• Why empathy, self-awareness, and reflection are your best antidotes

From office politics and passive-aggressive emails to visionary leaders who bulldoze their teams, this episode is part hilarious storytelling, part therapy session—and part HR intervention.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 – What makes someone “an a**hole” anyway?
• 03:00 – The cultural toxicity equation: it’s about the mix, not just the person
• 06:30 – Driving, Jersey slang, and workplace metaphors
• 09:00 – Level 1 vs. Level 5 a**holery (passive-aggression and beyond)
• 13:00 – Are visionaries more prone to bad behavior?
• 16:00 – Cultural and geographic friction in work styles
• 20:00 – What to do when someone’s a jerk at work (and it might be you)
• 25:00 – Pain, pressure, and psychopathy in leadership
• 30:00 – Relationships, reactions, and road rage: how to catch yourself before lashing out
• 33:00 – A**holes are contagious: are you hiring and breeding them?
• 36:00 – How corporate culture rewards toxic traits
• 40:00 – Parenting, kindness, and learning from Cobra Kai
• 43:00 – Final thoughts: no one is born an ahole, but we can all become one

Wisdom That Feels So Right

• Frequency podcast by Chuck Gose and Jenni Field
• How to Be a Gentleman by John Bridges
• Strong, Calm, Confident You by Kelsey Buckholtz
• Spaceballs (not really appropriate for work, but maybe)
• The Psychopaths Who Lead Us (Forbes article)
• Wonderwell – Kindness toy for kids

Mic-Drop Moments:

“One person’s visionary is another person’s jerk.”

“If you’re surrounded by a**holes… maybe it’s hiring. Or maybe it’s you.”

“Individually, we might slip. But when the system rewards bad behavior? That’s a culture problem.”

Connect with Us:

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Chuck Gose – LinkedIn | ICology | Frequency Podcast

Special Thanks:

Huge shoutout to Local Wisdom for making this show possible, and to our incredible team behind the scenes: Brielle Saracini and SBX Productions. You make us sound smooth—even when the topic is rough.

Keep the Conversation Going:

Whether you’ve encountered one, been one, or managed one—this topic hits home. Share your thoughts, leave a review, tag us on LinkedIn, or email us your story (names changed to protect the guilty, of course). Visit whydoesitfeelsowrong.com to bring these conversations into your workplace.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Season 2, Episode 4: Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Ask for Help at Work?

Episode Description

Is asking for help a sign of weakness—or is it the key to doing great work and being fully human?

In this heartfelt episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee explore why asking for help often feels like failure in today’s work culture—and why that couldn’t be further from the truth.

Sparked by a powerful story about Pinaki’s late grandmother (“When you're in trouble, don't sit by yourself”), this conversation dives into the subtle social rules, psychological biases, and cultural expectations that prevent people—especially men, leaders, and high performers—from speaking up when they need support.

Together, they unpack:

• Why asking for help is tied to power dynamics, imposter syndrome, and fear of judgment
• How leaders can make it safer for people to admit they don’t know something
• The link between help-seeking and collaboration, innovation, and growth
• How AI tools are triggering even more “help guilt” in the modern workplace
• The risk of helping too much and enabling dependency
• How to know when to step in—and when to let people grow through struggle

This one is personal, practical, and packed with real-world stories, from fixing dryers to managing emotional labor. Plus, the team closes with their latest segment, Wisdom That Feels So Right, with book, video, and therapy recs that meet you where you are.

Timestamps

• 00:00 – Story: Ronnie’s advice from age 96—“Ask for help.”
• 02:00 – Dryer repair, YouTube, and the myth of male competence
• 05:00 – Workplace fears: Looking incompetent, affecting your brand
• 08:00 – Why people hesitate to ask for help (even when they want to)
• 10:00 – Tips for managers: Reframing help as collaboration
• 12:00 – Pressure, workload, and the cost of silence
• 15:00 – Creating psychological safety in 1:1s
• 18:00 – The switch: When “asking for help” suddenly feels weak
• 21:00 – The risk of helping too much—and how it stunts growth
• 24:00 – Leading without stepping on others’ autonomy
• 25:00 – Designing conversations that invite honesty and vulnerability

Wisdom That Feels So Right

• The Botany of Desire by Michael Pollan
• Daring Greatly and other works by Brené Brown
• Help: The Original Human Dilemma by Garret Keizer
• Therapy and support lines — because real help starts with reaching out
• SBX Productions for help creating your own podcast

Mic-Drop Moments

“Individually we’re limited—but together, we’re unlimited.”

“Help isn’t a detour—it’s the road to stronger work.”

“Sometimes people need to struggle. And sometimes they need to know they’re not alone in it.”

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks

Thank you to Local Wisdom for funding and fostering the conversations that bring more heart to the workplace. Shoutout to Brielle Saracini (producer), and the incredible team at SBX Productions—Vince, Taylor, and Bill—for helping us sound as good as we feel.

Share the Help

If something in this episode moved you, reminded you, or gave you courage—don’t keep it to yourself. Rate, review, share with a friend, or forward to someone who needs a nudge to raise their hand and say, “Hey, I could use a little help.”

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Season 2, Episode 3: Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Influenced?

Episode Description

Influencer fatigue, TikTok tips, corporate jargon, lawn envy, and the boss who suddenly wants to “go agile” after reading one McKinsey article—sound familiar?

In this episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee explore how deeply we're all influenced—by social media, our neighbors, our leaders, and even ourselves. The conversation spans from the science of subconscious mimicry to the ways workplace “best practices” are sometimes just rituals no one remembers the reason for.

Together, they unpack:

• Why influence can feel uncomfortable (even when it’s helpful)
• How unconscious social pressure and mimicry show up at work
• The link between influence, power dynamics, and culture
• What Inception, dopamine, and standing in waiting rooms teach us about human behavior
• How good leaders influence without micromanaging
• How Humanocracy, Dopamine Nation, and How to Win Friends and Influence People offer timeless insight
• Plus: A wild peek at how AI is shaping influence and how even your 4-year-old might not know what’s real anymore.

Timestamps

• 00:00 – Neighborhood lawn politics and the roots of influence
• 03:00 – Social media moms, tech TikTok, and the influencer paradox
• 06:30 – Leaders, tone-setting, and the trap of unintentional influence
• 08:30 – Priming experiments and subconscious behavior
• 10:00 – The “standing up” waiting room experiment (you’ve seen this!)
• 12:00 – Generational cycles of influence in the workplace
• 14:00 – The history of influence: from merchants to algorithms
• 16:00 – DEI, conformity, and reprogramming the brain
• 18:00 – When “yes, we can” becomes “we’re burning out”
• 20:00 – Dopamine and the dark side of workplace hustle culture
• 22:00 – Reinventing workplace norms: Bayer and Humanocracy
• 25:00 – Flow state at work and the boxing metaphor
• 27:00 – The subtle influence of workplace structure and experience

Wisdom That Feels So Right

• Humanocracy by Gary Hamel
• Dopamine Nation by Dr. Anna Lembke
• How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie
• TED Talk: How to Fight and Win the Information War by Peter Pomerantsev
• Peter Gabriel’s song “We Do What We’re Told” (inspired by the Milgram Experiment)
• Stanley Milgram's Obedience Study (psychological experiments on authority and compliance)

Mic-Drop Moments

“Influence gives us direction. But too much of it, unchecked, shapes us into something we didn’t choose.”

“Even saying nothing is saying something—especially when you’re a leader.”

“Work should feel like a flow state, not a factory reset.”

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Gratitude & Support

Shoutout to Local Wisdom for making this podcast possible—and for building the kind of culture that actually feels human. Thanks to SBX Productions for making us sound pro, and to our powerhouse producer Brielle Seracini for keeping the wheels turning.

Join the Movement

If this episode made you smile, made you think, or made you throw your phone across the room—we want to hear about it. Follow, rate, review, and share with friends, teammates, or your boss (subtly). You can also visit whydoesitfeelsowrong.com to keep the conversation going.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Season 2, Episode 2: Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Honest at Work?

Episode Description 

Can you really speak your truth at work without risking relationships, reputation, or your job? In this episode of Why Does it Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee dig deep into the complex emotional, social, and cultural dynamics around honesty in the workplace.

They ask:

• Why do we crave authenticity—but cringe when we see too much of it at work?
• What makes it so hard to be real with our managers, coworkers, or even ourselves?
• How do power dynamics, culture, and pressure shape what we can say vs. what we want to say?

Through personal stories, research insights, and straight-up vulnerability, Chris and Pinaki explore the messy middle between truth and tact—including how to create a psychologically safe environment where honesty can thrive.

They also introduce concepts like:

• Fantasy relationships and why saying “it’s fine” can create false realities
• The MUM Effect and the psychology of avoiding bad news
• How to detect honesty-coded phrases like “living the dream”
• Lessons from radical honesty, imposter syndrome, and even Ted Lasso

This episode closes with another segment of Wisdom That Feels So Right, highlighting the best books and frameworks on honesty, trust, and communication.

Timestamps

• 00:00 – Honesty about Season 1: From scripted to sincere
• 03:00 – Why honesty is complicated at work
• 06:30 – Code-switching, etiquette, and cultural context
• 08:00 – Radical honesty vs. respectful honesty
• 10:00 – Self-advocacy, truth bombs, and rock-and-roll consensus
• 13:00 – Fantasy relationships and misaligned perceptions
• 15:00 – The “brand autopsy” at Local Wisdom: A case study in courageous conversation
• 17:30 – Manager prompts to uncover emotional truths
• 20:00 – Workplace “code speak”: Living the dream = cry for help?
• 22:00 – A brief (and wild) history of honesty in business
• 25:00 – Lessons from Ted Lasso: Honesty builds trust
• 27:00 – The MUM Effect, psychological safety, and distorted perceptions
• 30:00 – Interviews, dating, and performance reviews: Why we dodge the truth
• 32:00 – Timing, empathy, and the courage to speak up
• 34:00 – Pressures that lead to dishonesty in organizations
• 36:00 – Wisdom That Feels So Right + Closing

Wisdom That Feels So Right

• Nobody Believes You by Jenni Field
• Crucial Conversations by Kerry Patterson et al.
• Simon Sinek’s 2-min YouTube clip: “Performance vs. Trust”
• Start With Why by Simon Sinek
• Ted Lasso (TV series, Apple TV+)

Key Takeaways

“Honesty without compassion can be cruel.” — Kristen Hancock

“When everyone says yes and no one means it, you're in a fantasy relationship.”

“We overestimate the negative impact of truth—and underestimate the positive.”

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks

Thank you to Local Wisdom and our rockstar producer Brielle Seracini for making this podcast possible. If your team is wrestling with truth, culture, or communication—let’s take this show on the road to your organization.

Let’s Keep It Real:

If this episode made you laugh, cringe, think—or gave you the urge to forward it anonymously to your boss—please rate, review, and share. We’d love to hear your honest take. Connect with us on LinkedIn and join the conversation.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Season 2, Episode 1: Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Embrace Change at Work?

Episode Description:
We’re back! After a much-anticipated break, hosts Pinaki Kathiari (CEO of Local Wisdom, co-founder of Resource Hero) and Chris Lee (VP at Gallagher Communications, President of IABC Toronto) kick off Season 2 of Why Does it Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work? by tackling one of the most universal and misunderstood workplace experiences: change.

In this deeply personal and practical conversation, Pinaki and Chris explore:

• Why change is so uncomfortable—and sometimes even painful
• How workplace culture impacts our ability to embrace change
• The psychology and physiology behind how humans process transitions
• The double-edged sword of being either too eager or too resistant to change
• What internal communications and people leaders can do to humanize change
• Tips for helping teams reframe change as a growth opportunity
• Personal stories, like riding a Waymo self-driving car, to illustrate the emotional complexity of navigating the unknown

Plus, they debut a new segment: “Wisdom That Feels So Right”, where they recommend books that help make sense of change and guide listeners through it.

Timestamps

00:00 – Welcome back: The evolution of the podcast and workplace conversations
03:00 – How the idea of humanizing the workplace gained traction
05:45 – What makes change feel so wrong at work
09:00 – Control, identity, and the emotional impact of organizational shifts
14:30 – Change as pain: The rollercoaster of excitement and fear
18:00 – Riding Waymo: An experiential metaphor for personal change
21:00 – Risk tolerance and managing emotional responses to uncertainty
27:00 – Suffering vs. reality: A mindset shift in navigating change
30:00 – Lessons from Who Moved My Cheese?
34:00 – Wisdom That Feels So Right: Books and frameworks on change
37:30 – Final thoughts: Making change a positive habit

Wisdom that Feels So Right

• Who Moved My Cheese? by Spencer Johnson
• The Dip by Seth Godin
• Quit by Annie Duke
• Illuminate by Nancy Duarte
• The Fearless Organization by Amy Edmondson
• Leading Change by John Kotter
• Range by David Epstein
• Soundtracks by Jon Acuff
• Ayurvedic Wellness by Dr. Suhas Kshirsagar

Connect with Us
Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Let’s Keep the Conversation Going:
Did something we said spark a new thought? Did you feel seen, challenged, or even frustrated by our take? We want to hear from you. Drop us a comment on LinkedIn or tag us in your reflections. And if you found this valuable, please rate, review, and share the episode to help others bring more humanness into the workplace.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Season 2 is here.

Join Pinaki Kathiari (Local Wisdom) and Chris Lee (Gallagher) as they dig into the contradictions of modern work culture—like why change feels scary and gossip feels great.

It’s honest, human, and maybe a little uncomfortable.

New episodes dropping soon. Subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your audio podcasts.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Season 1, Episode 10: Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Fail at Work?

Episode Description:

Failure is inevitable. But why does it still feel so wrong?

In this heartfelt and celebratory finale of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee dive into why failure carries so much emotional weight at work—and why that needs to change. With humor, humility, and personal stories, they reflect on childhood expectations, leadership norms, and the organizational fear of getting things wrong.

They explore:

• The roots of failure-shame and how we learn it in childhood
• How perfectionism, risk aversion, and toxic expectations show up in corporate culture
• The difference between good failure and careless mistakes
• How leaders can create psychological safety to foster innovation
• What sports, parenting, and start-ups teach us about falling forward
• Why quitting can be the smartest move—and how to know when it’s time
• The importance of experimenting, iterating, and letting go of perfection

This isn’t just a conversation about failing, it’s about learning, evolving, and building workplaces where failure is seen as a teacher, not a threat.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 – Why we fear failure from a young age
• 08:00 – Personal stories: parenting, pressure, and resilience
• 15:00 – Failure in corporate culture: old school vs. evolving norms
• 25:00 – The power of bad ideas and the risk of perfectionism
• 35:00 – Organizational shame, quitting, and "sunk cost" bias
• 45:00 – Amy Edmondson’s Right Kind of Wrong and failing well
• 55:00 – Design thinking, MVPs, and building fast to learn fast
• 01:05:00 – Michael Jordan, JK Rowling, and legendary "failures"
• 01:15:00 – Making peace with imperfection, embracing small wins
• 01:20:00 – Thank you, community: Final thoughts on being human at work

Books & Resources:

Right Kind of Wrong by Amy Edmondson

Thinking in Bets by Annie Duke

The Dip by Seth Godin

Blink by Malcolm Gladwell

Mic-Drop Moments:

“Failure isn’t the opposite of success. It’s the staircase to it.”

“We fear failure because we were taught it meant we were wrong—not just wrong, but bad.”

“Let’s fail fast, fail cheap, and succeed sooner.”

“Every step you take that doesn’t work is still a step forward.”

Connect with Us:

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks:

Huge gratitude to everyone who joined us for this first season—our listeners, our guests, and our production team. Thank you for making space for real conversations about what it means to be human at work. And a special thanks to Local Wisdom for sponsoring this season and leading the way in people-first communication.

Your Turn:

What’s a failure that helped you grow the most? What’s your organization’s attitude toward mistakes? Share your thoughts with us at whydoesitfeelsowrong.com or on LinkedIn using #WhyDoesItFeelSoWrong.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Season 1, Episode 9: Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Doubt the Data?

Episode Description:

Data doesn't lie—until it does.

In this thought-provoking episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee explore the complicated relationship between data-driven decision making and gut instinct. From legendary art forgeries and tech valuations to corporate benefits and poker games, they show how numbers and intuition both play critical roles in how we navigate decisions at work.

They explore:

• The seductive power of statistics—and why we blindly trust them
• When data becomes a scapegoat for risky decisions
• Stories from Blink, Thinking in Bets, Freakonomics, and The Wisdom of Crowds
• How cognitive bias, loss aversion, and decision inertia influence leadership
• The myth of the “perfect” decision and the danger of analysis paralysis
• How to balance evidence and instinct to move forward with confidence
• Prototyping, positioning, and decision-making as storytelling

If you've ever hesitated to act without "enough data," or ignored your gut because "the numbers say otherwise"—this episode is for you.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 – Stats are seductive (and possibly fake)
• 05:00 – Basketball analytics vs. coach instincts
• 12:00 – Data as a scapegoat in decision-making
• 20:00 – Benchmarking, benefits, and missed opportunities
• 30:00 – The Getty Museum’s $10M forgery story (Blink)
• 40:00 – Poker, gut calls, and the strategy of uncertainty
• 50:00 – Hiring, resumes, and defensible decisions
• 01:00:00 – Emotional investing, Nortel, and loss aversion
• 01:10:00 – Combining instinct and evidence
• 01:15:00 – Why prototyping is the new research
• 01:20:00 – Final thoughts: balance, boldness, and trust

Books & Resources:

• Blink by Malcolm Gladwell
• Thinking in Bets by Annie Duke
• Freakonomics by Steven Levitt & Stephen Dubner
• The Wisdom of Crowds by James Surowiecki
• Soundtracks by Jon Acuff

Mic-Drop Moments:

“We don’t make decisions with our heads. We justify them with our heads—but we make them with our hearts.”

“Data makes your choice defensible. Gut makes it meaningful.”

“Prototyping is the new research. Action is better than overanalysis.”

“Sometimes the data’s just there to catch the blame if it goes wrong.”

Connect with Us:

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks:

Shoutout to the team at Local Wisdom for championing nimble data, to Gallagher for advancing human-first communications, and to all the brave decision-makers who dare to trust both numbers and instinct.

Let’s Hear It:

What do you trust more at work—your gut or the data? Tell us your decision-making story. We’re on LinkedIn, TikTok, or drop us a note at whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Season 1, Episode 8: Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Put Yourself Before Your Company?

Episode Description:

Do you feel guilty taking a sick day—even when you're clearly not okay?

In this powerful episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee dig deep into the tension between self-care and workplace expectations. From personal stories and mental health stigma to the evolution of wellness programs and HR policy, this episode is a full-circle look at why prioritizing your health can feel like betraying your company—and why that needs to change.

They explore:

• The history of mental health and burnout in the workplace
• How charismatic leadership and “hustle culture” can unintentionally harm employees
• Why “quiet quitting” and languishing are signs of deeper systemic problems
• The true role of HR—and why trust should be the foundation of policy
• How modern companies can embrace neurodiversity, vulnerability, and care
• What Severance, the Apple TV series, gets eerily right about work-life disconnect
• The leadership shift from performance management to relationship-centered culture

With real data, personal reflections, and a compelling call for empathy and reform, this episode will make you rethink how we define productivity, wellness, and success at work.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 – Why we work when we’re sick
• 05:00 – Commutes, workaholism, and the myth of sacrifice
• 10:00 – COVID and the rise of mental health awareness
• 15:00 – Burnout, WHO’s definition, and stigma through history
• 25:00 – Workplace wellness from 1950s to today
• 35:00 – Unlimited PTO, bereavement policies, and the flexibility gap
• 45:00 – HR's original intent vs. its future role
• 50:00 – Microsoft stats: 16+ hours/week on email and meetings
• 55:00 – Time poverty, emotional load, and the cost of being always-on
• 01:05:00 – Neurodiversity, inclusion, and embracing “different wiring”
• 01:10:00 – Relationships, trust, and the long-term ROI of care
• 01:15:00 – Final thoughts: A grandmother’s advice + the Harvard happiness study

Books & Resources:

• Harvard’s 80-Year Happiness Study – TED Talk by Robert Waldinger
• Microsoft Work Trends Index
• Bonus: Strong, Calm, Confident You by Kelsey Buckholtz

Mic-Drop Moments:

“Self-care is company care.”

“Fair isn’t always equal, and equal isn’t always fair.”

“If your employees aren’t well, your business isn’t well either.”

“Relationships—not revenue—should be your leading indicator.”

Connect with Us:

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks:

Big love to the teams at Local Wisdom and Gallagher for leading by example and prioritizing humanity in the workplace. Special shout-out to Yelp for embedding mental health into leadership training—and to every company that’s doing the hard, human work.

Join the Conversation:

Have a story about taking time off, navigating burnout, or feeling torn between your job and your wellbeing? Share it with us on LinkedIn, TikTok, or email us at [email protected]. Let’s normalize being human.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Season 1, Episode 7: Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Create a Consumer-Grade Employee Experience?

Episode Description:

Why do we obsess over the customer experience—but cut corners on the employee experience?

In this episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, hosts Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee break down the false dichotomy between CX and EX—and make the case that a thriving business starts with its people. From packaging design and onboarding rituals to PTO requests and office arcade machines, they explore how to turn everyday employee touchpoints into powerful moments of meaning and connection.

Together, they explore:

• The history and evolution of employee experience
• Why we invest so heavily in customers, but not in employees
• How trust, vulnerability, and intention shape culture
• What we can learn from Apple, Disney, and top-tier CX strategies
• Why “compensation” and “competitive benefits” may not say what you think
• The power of micro-moments, onboarding, and thoughtful leadership
• Why employee experience starts before day one—and lasts long after someone leaves

Whether you’re in HR, internal comms, leadership, or just tired of corporate double standards—this episode offers tangible insights and an inspiring case for change.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 – Introduction: CX vs. EX – Why the disparity?
• 05:00 – Pinaki’s CEO journey: Trust, transparency, and company culture
• 12:00 – The false belief that EX is expensive
• 15:00 – Apple packaging and memorable onboarding experiences
• 20:00 – Why employee moments matter: From first day to final farewell
• 25:00 – The “competitive benefits” illusion
• 30:00 – Historical lens: The birth of employee experience research
• 35:00 – The psychology behind management, humanity, and productivity
• 40:00 – Modern leadership: Purpose-driven, emotionally intelligent, people-first
• 45:00 – Turning marketing tactics inward: Journey mapping the employee experience
• 50:00 – Digital simplicity: HR tools vs. everyday tech (Amazon, Uber, Spotify)
• 55:00 – Learning from Disney: Details, continuity, and emotional design
• 01:00:00 – Small touchpoints, big impact (PTO, expenses, laptops)
• 01:10:00 – Final thoughts: If your employees’ spouses were surveyed, what would they say?

Books & Resources:

Building a Culture of Inclusivity by Priya Bates & Advita Patel

MIT Sloan Management Review – Emerging Leadership Styles

Gallagher's State of the Sector 2023 Report

Mic-Drop Moments:

“Your customers won’t love your brand until your employees love your brand.”

“If you want to know the employee experience, ask their spouse.”

“We don’t need more arcade machines. We need more trust.”

Connect with Us:

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Special Thanks:

Big appreciation to the teams at Local Wisdom and Gallagher for helping organizations reimagine the employee experience from the inside out. And to our listeners—your stories, struggles, and successes inspire this entire conversation.

We Want to Hear From You:

What does your employee experience feel like right now? Is it joyful, frustrating, inspiring—or just kind of meh? Let us know on TikTok, LinkedIn, or at whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn  | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible. 

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.