With Robert F. Kennedy Jr. testifying to become Trump’s Health and Human Services Secretary, optimism and joy are coursing through the ascendant Make America Healthy Again movement, while fear and confusion are taking hold in American public health circles. To critics, he is an outspoken vaccine skeptic and spreader of conspiracy theories. To supporters, he is a singular figure, a warrior able to take on a broken system that is responsible for America's chronic health epidemic. As the nomination was rolling forward, the Trump administration sent shockwaves through the public health community, freezing day-to-day operations and funding and overwhelming doctors and scientists who are asking: Is this typical fallout from a new presidential transition or the start of a campaign to control science? We’re joined by Travis Tripodi a longtime supporter of RFK Jr., as well as Dr. Katelyn Jetelina, a public health leader and author of the wildly popular substack "Your Local Epidemiologist".

Hosts:
Brinda Adhikari
Tom Johnson
Maggie Bartlett
Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:
Travis Tripodi, Braver Angels ambassador; independent consultant for health tech industry; RFK Jr. supporter (https://braverangels.org/)

Dr. Katelyn Jetelina, epidemiologist, author of newsletter Your Local Epidemiologist  (https://www.yourlocalepidemiologist.co/)

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Amid a blitz of public health-related executive orders issued by President Trump since Monday alone, including one that will pull America out of the WHO, comes news that a date has finally been set for RFK Jr's highly-anticipated confirmation hearing -- as of the moment of publishing, it will take place next week. 

Dr. Paul Offit, a titan in the medical community and a fierce vaccine advocate, pulls no punches in confronting the very real prospect of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. heading Health and Human Services. He grapples with the sharp rise in vaccine hesitancy, the erosion of trust in public health, and the reality that mainstream science is losing the communication battle to popular podcasts and influencers championing skepticism of public health. Still, Offit refuses to back down, ease up, or give in when it comes to defending the power of vaccines. 

Offit responds to the story we feature of Daniel King, a once healthy, pro-vaccine Army veteran who says his health is now devastated and he wonders if it may have been due to the Covid vaccine—all he is looking for is some help understanding his condition and says the medical community is ignoring his pleas, further pushing him towards alternative sources of information. 

Finally, with RFK Jr.’s confirmation hearings around the corner, what’s the one question Dr. Offit most wants senators to ask? 

Huge thanks to Braver Angels and David Lapp for helping us meet Daniel King.
https://braverangels.org/

Hosts:
Brinda Adhikari
Tom Johnson
Maggie Bartlett
Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:
Daniel King: medically retired Army veteran; former commercial truck operator

Dr. Paul Offit: infectious disease pediatrician, vaccine specialist, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, sits on FDA Vaccines Advisory Committee

Sources:
The impact of the Covid 19 Pandemic on vaccination uptake in the U.S.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10484032/

Risks of myocarditis associated with Covid 19 vaccine
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0

PEW Research Center: Americans’ Largely Positive Views of Childhood Vaccines Hold Steady
https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2023/05/16/americans-largely-positive-views-of-childhood-vaccines-hold-steady/#:~:text=Americans%20remain%20steadfast%20in%20their,new%20Pew%20Research%20Center%20survey

Rutherford: Troops Discharged for Refusing COVID Vaccine Must Be Reinstated
https://rutherford.house.gov/media/press-releases/rutherford-troops-discharged-refusing-covid-vaccine-must-be-reinstated

Routine childhood vaccination rates lower than pre pandemic levels
https://www.ncsl.org/state-legislatures-news/details/routine-child-vaccination-rates-lower-than-pre-pandemic-levels

Dr. Paul Offit: Don’t Call Kennedy a Vaccine Skeptic. Call Him What He Is: A Cynic.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/13/opinion/rfk-jr-is-a-vaccine-cynic.html

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Special episode alert!
Dr. John Ioannidis: Critical of the Covid response, praiseful of vaccines, and hopeful data will rebuild our broken trust.     

Dr. John Ioannidis is a renowned epidemiologist at Stanford University, a champion of data, and a stalwart for evidence-based research. 

Not afraid to ruffle feathers, rock the boat, or insert your idiomatic expression here, Ioannidis, true to form, set the scientific world afire in the earliest days of the pandemic when he criticized the public health community's rush to shut down schools and businesses without more reliable data on how severe the virus would become. This, as expected, raised the ire of the public health establishment, which criticized his downplaying of an unfolding pandemic that would ultimately claim 1.1 million American lives.

Now, the unicorn part: Today, while believing that aspects of our response to the pandemic did more harm than good, he is staunchly pro-vaccine, believes the COVID vaccine was a triumph of science, and has zero interest in pointing fingers of blame. Dr. Ioannidis also states unequivocally that vaccines do not cause autism and that treatments like ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine have not been proven to work on COVID, often drawing ire from those who are skeptical of mainstream science.

With all this as a prologue, what does he think about the outbreak of mistrust that is consuming America today? We discuss how he believes we can find common ground, focus on the real threats we face (e.g., conflicts of interest in scientific research), and rebuild trust in one another.

Hosts:
Brinda Adhikari
Tom Johnson
Maggie Bartlett

Guest:
Dr. John Ioannidis

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Ivermectin is in the spotlight again -- thanks to Joe Rogan, Mel Gibson, and even some related legislation making its way around the country. Moreover, people we are speaking with who mistrust mainstream science regularly bring it up as an example illustrating a dishonest public health and media establishment. 

How did an uncontroversial workhorse of an anti-parasitic drug—one that has saved countless lives and earned its discoverers a Nobel Prize—become and is continuing to be a major driver of mistrust for science and public health today?

Despite numerous studies confirming that it’s ineffective for treating or preventing COVID-19, Ivermectin has become a focal point in our national debate over the pandemic response, censorship, government overreach, and 'my science vs. your science' worldviews.

This is the story of often stirring anecdotes versus solid double-blind studies, at times condescending public health and media messaging, the Wild West of medical research, the role of money in medicine, and, finally, medical freedom.

We speak with Dr. David Boulware, a physician and one of the lead researchers who studied and did trials on Ivermectin, in an episode about what this unassuming drug has revealed about who we are and where we are headed.

Hosts:
Brinda Adhikari
Tom Johnson
Maggie Bartlett
with special guest host, Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:
Dr. David Boulware, infectious disease physician at the University of Minnesota, who oversaw the design of multiple clinical trials of Ivermectin

Sources:
Study Confirms No Benefit to Taking Ivermectin for COVID-19 Symptoms
https://corporate.dukehealth.org/news/study-confirms-no-benefit-taking-ivermectin-covid-19-symptoms

CDC alert on dramatic rise in prescriptions, poison control reports, adverse events from ivermectin
https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/109271#tabs-2

20-30% of prescriptions are off-label:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9998554/#:~:text=Off%2Dlabel%20prescriptions%20for%20drugs,%25)3%20(Figure%201).

Is Ivermectin Bogus or a “Miracle Drug”?
 https://www.newsweek.com/ivermectin-bogus-miracle-drug-truth-lies-somewhere-between-1635304 

Emergency Use Authorizations of COVID-19–Related Medical Products:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2787205

Frontline Covid-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC Alliance) page with data they say supports the use of ivermectin:
https://covid19criticalcare.com/ivermectin/

Bill forcing hospitals to administer ivermectin, other requested treatments nears finish line
https://www.cleveland.com/open/2024/12/bill-forcing-hospitals-to-administer-ivermectin-other-requested-treatments-nears-finish-line.html 

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It's been 5 years since the pandemic and America's trust in public health, medicine, and science has plummeted. It's no secret that the COVID-19 response left a significant portion of Americans seething mad. Now, as the Trump administration, with Robert F. Kennedy Jr. leading the charge, prepares to take control of public health, and with the emergence of a new virus posing a growing threat, Brinda, Maggie, and Tom dig beneath the poll numbers and declining vaccination rates to explore what happens when so many Americans begin to question mainstream science. We speak with a suburban mom and lifelong Democrat about her personal health journey, her experience during the pandemic, and ultimately how her views on science and health led her to vote this time for Donald Trump. 

Hosts:
Brinda Adhikari, former executive producer of The Problem with Jon Stewart on AppleTV+; former ABC News and CBS News

Tom Johnson, former executive producer of The Circus, on Showtime/Paramount+, former Bloomberg, ABC News

Dr. Maggie Bartlett: virologist, assistant research professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

Guests:
Melinda Hicks, former TV producer, Atlanta, GA
Dr. Mark Abdelmalek, skin cancer surgeon, dermatologist, physician

Sources we used for data:

TRUST IN PHYSICIANS DURING COVID
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11292455/

DECLINE OF CHILDHOOD VACCINATION RATES
https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/childhood-vaccination-rates-continue-to-decline-as-trump-heads-for-a-second-term/

PUBLIC TRUST IN SCIENTISTS
https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2024/11/14/public-trust-in-scientists-and-views-on-their-role-in-policymaking/ps_2024-11-14_trust-in-science_00-01/

VIEWS ON CHILDHOOD VACCINATIONS
https://news.gallup.com/poll/648308/far-fewer-regard-childhood-vaccinations-important.aspx#:~:text=--%20Fewer%20Americans%20today%20consider,2019%20and%2064%25%20in%202001

CDC DATA ON MEASLES UPTICK
https://www.cdc.gov/measles/data-research/index.html   

WHERE WE FIRST READ ABOUT MELINDA:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/02/us/trump-public-health-dr-oz-rfk-jr.html

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Hi everyone! Welcome to Why Should I Trust You?, a new weekly podcast looking at why so many Americans have lost trust in science and public health. Hosted by two former TV news journalists and a virologist, each week we will hear from those who mistrust mainstream science and also hear from those who ARE mainstream science. Join us as we take on everything from vaccines to doctor-patient relationships to what science has to say when there is uncertainty -- and how we can move forward together. Beginning in early January 2025!

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Got questions? Comments? We'd love to hear from you! Email us at [email protected]