Today, we’re joined by CNN's Jake Tapper, who along with Axios' Alex Thompson, are authors of the new book Original Sin: President Biden’s Decline, Its Cover-Up, and His Disastrous Choice to Run Again. Their reporting is sending shockwaves throughout Washington and beyond--its release landing the same week as the news of the former president’s aggressive cancer diagnosis. The result is a seismic reckoning with Biden’s decision to seek re-election despite visible signs of age-related decline. And Tapper and Thompson have been blasted over whether they did everything they could to hold the president and his team accountable. 

We ask: How much did the media know—and not report, including Tapper himself? Why did Biden, his top advisors, and Democratic leaders ignore the overwhelming concerns from the public about Biden’s frailty? And how did that denial deepen America’s distrust in its leaders, its institutions, and the press?

Yes, this is a story about health, aging, and what we expect from our leaders—but at its core, it’s about truth and trust. It is the kind of hard truth about aging and vulnerability that we -- and our systems --  often resist confronting 

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Jake Tapper, CNN, co-author, Original Sin: President Biden’s Decline, Its Cover-Up, and His Disastrous Choice to Run Again.

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In today’s episode — the second installment of our conversation between MAHA and Public Health — we bring together veteran public health leaders and grassroots activists from Ohio’s Make America Healthy Again chapter, two sides that allegedly don't agree on much.

Our first conversation raised big questions. Some asked: Why even engage? At a time when devastating cuts are hitting public health and science, and America’s public health mission is being reshaped, many believe this moment calls for a fight — not a dialogue.

But we chose conversation. And today's conversation took us straight to the fault lines of some of the most divisive health issues in America today.

What we heard surprised us. Some positions weren’t as hardened as we expected. Some people, not as dug in.

There’s tension and disagreement — but also moments of agreement, and more than just a flicker of hope.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Elizabeth Frost, MAHA

Mark Harris, MAHA

Nancy Fuller, MAHA

Daniel DeLuca, MAHA

Megan Ranney, Public Health

Reed Tuckson, Public Health

Katelyn Jetelina, Public Health

Craig Spencer, Public Health

Paul Offit, Public Health

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Do you believe in ghosts? The paranormal? Hold that thought. Believe it or not, it ties directly into the themes of our show.

Trust in our institutions is crumbling—from government and media to higher education, and yes, even medicine, science, and public health. Today’s guest, Pulitzer Prize finalist and author of the new book The Ghost Lab, Matt Hongoltz-Hetling, joins us to explore the growing belief in the paranormal—and what it reveals about our national psyche.

He argues that our fascination with ghosts, aliens, and the unexplained may be more than fringe curiosity. It could be a lens into where our deepening mistrust is leading us.

We talk about how the scientific method is being used to investigate hauntings, why medical associations might consider hiring a resident medium, and how something as strange-sounding as moisturizing with snail mucin might contain unexpected insight into building trust.

This is a conversation about the difference between healthy skepticism and corrosive doubt—and what rises to replace expertise when the experts no longer hold sway.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Matt Hongoltz-Hetling, investigative journalist and author of The Ghost Lab and If It Sounds Like a Quack.

Sources:

NYT Opinion by Matt Hongoltz-Hetling
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/29/opinion/medical-freedom-cancer-rfk.html

Every Doctor Faces This Dilemma

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/20/opinion/doctors-vaccines-patients.html

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In this special episode, we dig into the origins of the pandemic. Has America decided it began with a lab leak? Is the debate over?

The Trump administration says yes, launching a new government website asserting that Covid originated in a lab, not from animal-to-human transmission at the now-infamous Wuhan market. In recent days, Trump signed an executive order halting gain-of-function research, the type his administration claims caused the alleged leak. Tulsi Gabbard, now Director of National Intelligence, says she’s working on the definitive report. And Senator Rand Paul is once again calling for Dr. Fauci to be held accountable.

But talk to many scientists, and the response is clear: not so fast.

To help us unpack where the evidence stands—and how politics is reshaping the conversation—we're joined by three returning guests: Dr. Paul Offit, infectious disease expert at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia; Dr. Maciej Boni, epidemiologist and professor at Temple University who was part of an early research effort into Covid’s origins; and David Wallace-Wells, New York Times science columnist and longtime chronicler of the pandemic’s many turns.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Dr. Maggie Bartlett

Guests:

Dr Paul Offit, infectious disease pediatrician, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia

Dr Maciek Boni, infectious disease epidemiologist, Temple University

David Wallace Wells, science writer, New York Times

Tulsi Gabbard on Gain on Function Research and Covid Origins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMKTSYxto_Y

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In today’s episode: a conversation between two sides that don’t typically speak with each other—mainstream public health leaders and voices from the Make America Healthy Again (MAHA) movement. These groups often talk about each other, but rarely to each other.

Five MAHA members from their state chapter in Ohio. Five public health leaders. We had met and developed relationships with them over months of discussing their vision of health in this country. And a few weeks ago, we invited them to have a conversation with each other. They all agreed. 

On today's episode, we play the conversation in three sections. Following each section, we are joined by the Dean of Yale School of Public Health's Megan Ranney and MAHA Ohio's Grassroots Coordinator Elizabeth Frost who were on the call, to dig into their reactions.

This dialogue comes at a critical moment for public health and science, as the Trump administration slashes funding and jobs in a sharp reorientation of America’s health agencies and scientific research infrastructure. The divisions between these two camps run deep—over vaccines, the role of government, over health itself, and the polarizing figure of Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the nation’s current health secretary. Trust is eroding on all sides.

So we asked: what if we tried to bridge the gap? Do these sides actually have more in common than they think? Would they be willing to be open and honest with each other? Would they get stuck on the conversation over vaccines?

What you will hear is an important starting point -- with more conversations planned for the future. 

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek 

Guests:

MAHA Grassroots from Ohio:

Elizabeth Frost**

Nancy Fuller

Donald Wiggins

Daniel DeLuca

Mark Harris

Public health leaders: 

Megan Ranney**

Reed Tuckson

Katelyn Jetelina

Craig Spencer

Paul Offit

**Were on the group zoom conversation with MAHA and public health as well as podcast guests today

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During RFK Jr.'s confirmation hearing back in January, many voices competed to be heard. But one cut through the noise: Senator Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire — a Democrat, a policymaker, and the mother of a son with Cerebral Palsy. Her emotional testimony about love, a mother's guilt, and the daily realities of disability struck a national chord.

Today, she joins us.

She tells us about where she finds yes, disagreement — but also, surprising common ground — with MAHA parents seeking answers about autism, vaccines, food, and chemicals. 

Can this Democrat from the "Live Free or Die" state help rebuild trust in public health, a field often tied to collective sacrifice? And with her party facing historic polling lows, how does she believe Democrats can craft a new health message, even as they fight to protect scientific research and Medicaid from deep cuts she sees as devastating?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Senator Maggie Hassan (D-NH)

Relevant committees she serves which relate to the subject of our podcast: Senate HELP Committee (Health, Education, Labor and Pensions); Senate Finance Committee; Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs

Source:

Clip from January 2025 of Sen Maggie Hassan at RFK Jr.'s confirmation hearing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEYj8x8f1QY&t=1s

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We’re joined by Emily Jashinsky, co-host of Counterpoints with Ryan Grim. Formerly with The Federalist and The Hill, Emily now serves as DC correspondent for UnHerd and hosts Undercurrents TV. She’s someone well-versed in this shifting media landscape.

Together, we explore the rise of the so-called “New Media”—a world where legacy outlets are giving way to right-leaning podcasters, YouTubers, and social media influencers. As trust in public health, science, and institutions craters, we ask: is this new media ecosystem fueling the breakdown, or finally reflecting a mistrust that’s been simmering for years?

And while critics on the Left call this new media machine unstoppable—blaming it for everything from Trump’s rise to the collapse of trust in science—we push back on that narrative. Could this shifting landscape actually offer unexpected opportunities for public health voices willing to step into the fray?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett (off this week)

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off this week)

Guest:

Emily Jashinsky, former The Federalist, The Hill, co-host of Counterpoints web and podcast show; and the DC correspondent of UnHerd - a news and current affairs site and host of Undercurrents TV. 

Sources:

Media Matters "Bubbles" Graphic on Dominance of Right-Leaning Media

https://x.com/GoAngelo/status/1900959918040989731

Joe Rogan Podcast, Dave Smith, Doug Murray, on Expertise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah6kirkSwTg

Emily Jashinsky: Legacy Media Indict Themselves When They Blame the "Right Wing Media Ecosystem"

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In today’s episode, we speak with Evan Barker, a writer, podcaster, and former Democratic staffer and fundraiser who, in 2024, voted for Donald Trump. Raised in a working-class community by her mother, Barker's family lived paycheck to paycheck. Then she was diagnosed with a rare, potentially fatal chronic illness. 

Raised in a blue-collar Missouri community, Evan represents a much-needed voice at the table as America wrestles with how to get healthier. Does she feel MAHA represents the America of her upbringing? How did the party of Obamacare--which provided her insurance and thus the opportunity to go to college--lose her trust? And despite her vote for Trump, does she trust the Republican Party will hold the line on cuts to Medicaid, which millions of working-class Americans depend on?  Finally, does this former Democrat think either party has a health agenda that will rebuild trust with middle-class America and will make us healthier? 

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Evan Barker: writer; former Democratic campaign operative; host of podcast Not Going Back

Source:

Evan Barker: I Raised $50 Million for the Democratic Party. This Week I Voted for Donald Trump. 

https://www.thefp.com/p/democrat-fundraiser-evan-barker-i-voted-trump

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Nation's Top Vaccine Regulator Just Ousted, Dr. Peter Marks: "Measles is NOT leveling off". 

This is in direct contrast to Secretary Kennedy's statement just yesterday that the nation's measles outbreak is under control. 

Plus why he felt he could not stay at the FDA anymore, his answers to parents' questions about vaccine safety, what he sees for public health right now and what he wants to do next. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Today, in a special episode, we’re breaking from our usual Thursday release schedule to bring you an in-depth conversation with Dr. Peter Marks—America’s top vaccine official, who just stepped down from his role at the FDA.

His resignation made headlines, sending shock waves through the public health world, especially after he said RFK Jr.’s newly installed team at the agency left him little choice. For years, Dr. Marks led the government group responsible for approving vaccines and in that role was a driving force behind Operation Warp Speed. That effort both fast-tracked COVID-19 vaccines at a moment when the nation was desperate for solutions and has helped fuel America's rise in mistrust.
Now, with that public trust in science, health officials, and institutions at a low point, we sit down with Dr. Marks to ask the hard questions: Was the COVID vaccine rushed? What does he make of RFK Jr.’s bold claim that he’ll uncover the cause of autism by September? And does he think the current measles outbreak is bigger and more dangerous than it appears?
Finally, we talk with this newly liberated public health servant about what it might take for America to turn the corner—and start trusting again.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Dr. Peter Marks, former director of the Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research within the Food and Drug Administration. He oversaw the FDA vaccine program. 

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On today's episode, we tackle a topic that sparks more fear, frustration, and mistrust than perhaps any other: health insurance. From denied claims to endless bureaucratic red tape and the dread of sky-high out-of-pocket costs, it's no wonder so many Americans feel trapped. While more people are covered than ever before, many are still skipping doctor visits, avoiding exams, and forgoing prescription refills due to the financial burden. The raw emotion was on full display in the shocking response to the murder of the United Healthcare CEO. Today, we sit down with Wendell Potter, a former health industry insider turned whistleblower who walked away from his high-paying job to fight for reform in the very industry he once served. In today's divisive conversation about making America healthier, is fixing healthcare the one thing we can all agree on?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Wendell Potter, former health insurance executive at Cigna; president of the Center for Health and Democracy

Sources:

I Was a Health Insurance Executive. What I Saw Made Me Quit

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/18/opinion/health-insurance-united-ceo-shooting.html

In US, Inability to Pay For Care, Medicine Hits New High
https://news.gallup.com/poll/658148/inability-pay-care-medicine-hits-new-high.aspx

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