Episode Summary:

In this special bonus episode of "With All Due Respect," Megan Powell Du Toit and Michael Jensen dive into a discussion about Christopher Nolan's 2026 film, "The Odyssey." This adaptation of Homer's ancient Greek epic is dissected through the lenses of both the original text's themes and contemporary interpretations, offering listeners a rich tapestry of theological and cultural insights.

Key Takeaways:

• Modern Adaptations of Classic Epics: Christopher Nolan's "The Odyssey" provokes dialogue not only about its faithfulness to Homer's epic but also its reinterpretation in a contemporary context.
• Themes of Guilt and Atonement: The film explores psychological and spiritual depth, highlighting Odysseus's journey through guilt and atonement as a reflection of modern sensibilities influenced by Christian thought.
• Hospitality's Role in Society: The concept of hospitality is critically examined, both as a part of Homer's world and in its implications for today's global and often divided landscapes.
• Cultural Relevance and Critique: The discourse reflects on how adaptations resonate with current socio-political climates, posing questions about home, belonging, and societal norms.
• Lewis and Tolkien's Influence: There is a discussion on how ancient longings reflected in texts like "The Odyssey" find answers in the Christian gospel, drawing parallels with the works of C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien.

Notable Quotes:

1. "When you're using source material like this… I'm really, I really enjoy a reworking." – Megan Powell Du Toit
2. "The goodies turn out to be the baddies… evil lurking in your own heart." – Michael Jensen
3. "Guilt and atonement… how Christian are those themes." – Michael Jensen
4. "Home is a place that is safe for you and yours, but also must have that permeable border." – Megan Powell Du Toit
5. "There is no real atonement possible, even in Nolan's epic." – Megan Powell Du Toit

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Our highest listened to episode (published 12th October 2023, titled Only Human). It's been almost 3 years since the film dropped and these two things stand out for us: 

Creator/creature theme: In 2026, AI personhood and consciousness is a live legal and theological debate, giving this creator-creature discussion fresh relevance.

Euthanasia theme: Voluntary assisted dying is actively expanding across Australia in 2026, making this Ecclesiastes-death exchange a current pastoral conversation.

Enjoy the conversation! 

In light of the Barbie movie phenomenon, our hosts take stock of Greta Gerwig's divisive blockbuster, ponder its themes on humanity, and whether it will become an essential existential text.

Old Testament expert Dr George Athas then joins the show to discuss the film, its relationship to the book of Ecclesiastes, and how death plays a role in our understanding of being human.

Key Takeaways:

• Existential Themes in "Barbie": The movie tackles deep questions of identity and mortality, using the narrative of a doll to explore what it truly means to be human.
• Ecclesiastes' Pessimism: Dr. George Athas highlights the pessimistic yet honest portrayal of life's transient nature and inequities in Ecclesiastes, drawing parallels with modern existential storytelling.
• Death as a Central Theme: Both "Barbie" and Ecclesiastes focus significantly on death, pondering its implications on how we perceive and live our lives.
• Complexity of Human Existence: The discussion reveals the intricate layers of living with awareness of mortality, suggesting a profound connection between biblical and contemporary explorations of existence.
• Constructive Theological Engagement: Dr. Athas emphasizes the importance of listening to existential despair as expressed in texts like Ecclesiastes, allowing it to inform a compassionate, gospel-centered response.

Notable Quotes:

• "Ecclesiastes sees death as the unavoidable destiny of every person. It's the great leveler." – Dr. George Athas
• "In a world in which sin is entered, you don't want access to the Tree of Life. It's not a good thing." – Megan Powell du Toit
• "The person who wrote Ecclesiastes, I call him Qohelet, he is very upset with the way that the world works and he doesn't hold out much hope for it." – Dr. George Athas
• "We have the science to extend life indefinitely, but not the wisdom to know when actually that's pointless." – Michael Jensen
• "Death brings everything to an end. It's dehumanizing in Ecclesiastes' view." – Dr. George Athas

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This season of With All Due Respect is sponsored by Morling College, a Christ-centred higher-education institution shaped by its Baptist heritage and broad evangelical vision. Morling is committed to rigorous theological study, deep spiritual formation, and learning how to engage faithfully and thoughtfully with difference. Study options include ministry and theology, counselling, chaplaincy, and education. Download a course guide to explore whether Morling is the right place for your next step.

Interested in pursuing ministry, counselling, chaplaincy, postgraduate education — or simply eager to dive deeper into God’s Word? Register for Open Night on Thursday, 4 June and discover how your faith and calling can come together at Morling College.

About the Guest:

George Gittoes is an acclaimed Australian artist, photographer, filmmaker, and writer known for work centred on conflict zones. For more than four decades, he has documented the realities of war, and he is widely recognised as a leading Australian war artist. He co-founded the Yellow House artists’ collective in Sydney in 1969/70 and later helped establish the Yellow House in Jalalabad, Afghanistan, in 2011. Gittoes has won the Blake Prize for Religious Art twice, the Wynne Prize, and the Sydney Peace Prize in 2015.

Key Takeaways:

• Atrocities are deeply rooted in crimes against humanity, involving extreme acts of cruelty and violence that demand global attention and action.
• George Gittoes' experiences in conflict zones highlight the power of art to restore dignity and foster peace in war-torn regions.
• The episode underscores the significance of understanding human dignity through a theological lens, emphasising creativity over destruction.
• The film "Nuremberg" explores the historic trial of Nazi war criminals and the psychological complexity behind such heinous acts.
• Discourse around global justice systems reveals both flaws and the essential need for mechanisms to address and prevent future atrocities.

Notable Quotes:

1. "It's only art that can save humanity." - George Gittoes
2. "When you dehumanise others, you're actually reducing yourself." - Megan Paul du Trois
3. "I always believe that the good angels are going to win." - George Gittoes
4. "The justification is, I assume the actions of the Israeli government make, make the killing of Jews anywhere justifiable." - Michael Jensen
5. "He's fascinated and attracted as well as repelled by the character who is charming and intelligent and yet deeply evil." - Michael Jensen

Resources:

• George Gittoes' Official Website

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This season of With All Due Respect is sponsored by Morling College, a Christ-centred higher-education institution shaped by its Baptist heritage and broad evangelical vision. Morling is committed to rigorous theological study, deep spiritual formation, and learning how to engage faithfully and thoughtfully with difference. Study options include ministry and theology, counselling, chaplaincy, and education. Download a course guide to explore whether Morling is the right place for your next step.

Interested in pursuing ministry, counselling, chaplaincy, postgraduate education — or simply eager to dive deeper into God’s Word? Register for Open Night on Thursday, 4 June and discover how your faith and calling can come together at Morling College.

About the Guest:

Dr. Nijay Gupta is a prominent New Testament scholar and the Professor of New Testament at Northern Seminary. He has authored multiple influential books such as "A Beginner's Guide to New Testament Studies," "Paul the Language of Faith," and the forthcoming "Pour for the World: A Grounded Vision for Finding Meaning in this Life, Not Just the Next." Dr. Gupta co-chairs the Pauline Theology Seminar of the Institute for Biblical Research and contributes as a senior translator for the New Living Translation, showcasing his deep engagement with biblical texts and his commitment to accessible theological education.

Key Takeaways:

• The distinction between salvation gospel and kingdom gospel can unify a holistic view of the Gospel's implications for individuals and creation.

• Dr. Nijay Gupta argues for a "grounded vision" of the Gospel, integrating theological insights with real-world applications to combat escapism.

• The resurrection is a revolutionary concept impacting both spiritual beliefs and practical approaches to life, highlighting the importance of embodying hope and new creation.

• The film "On the Waterfront" serves as a cultural lens through which the sermon of standing against injustice is presented, mirroring Gospel teachings on moral action.

• Insights on articulating faith in public spheres emphasize the necessity of adapting Gospel communication to engage effectively with diverse audiences and contexts.

Notable Quotes:

1. He says, taken together, we can infer from 1 Corinthians 15, 3 to 5, Romans 1, 14 and 2 Timothy 2, 8. The gospel is both about the person and work of Christ. God promised in the scriptures that he would renew creation, restore Israel. The gospel is the good news that God has made these promises good in Jesus, the Messiah and Lord Jesus died and rose for the purpose of atoning for sins. And through faith in him and his work, believers are reconciled to God. The new age has been launched and God has revealed his saving righteousness in the gospel so that he justifies and delivers persons from the penalty and pain, power of sin and death. - Mike Bird definition of the Gospel
2. "You know, some people think we were made for heaven and not earth, but we were actually made for heaven on earth." — Nijay Gupta
3. "The resurrection body of Jesus is proof of life, that new creation is coming now." — Nijay Gupta

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This season of With All Due Respect is sponsored by Morling College, a Christ-centred higher-education institution shaped by its Baptist heritage and broad evangelical vision. Morling is committed to rigorous theological study, deep spiritual formation, and learning how to engage faithfully and thoughtfully with difference. Study options include ministry and theology, counselling, chaplaincy, and education. Download a course guide to explore whether Morling is the right place for your next step.

In an age marked by political polarisation, moral confusion, and deep mistrust of institutions, what does it mean to live well together? Are we primarily citizens of the state, autonomous individuals, or something else entirely? Join Michael at the 27th Annual Tinsley Lecture on 21 May as he explores the distinctive political vision offered by Christian faith in Subjects and Citizens – What Christianity Offers a Fractured Public Square.

About the Guest:

Professor Maria O’Sullivan is an Associate Professor at Deakin Law School whose expertise spans public law, human rights law, and refugee law. Her scholarship has been cited by the High Court of Australia and the Court of Justice of the European Union, and her current research includes the law of protest and its human rights implications

Key Takeaways:

• Engaging in protests can be seen as a sort of communicative act, and the episode explores how Christians might balance respecting authority with participating in protests.
• Professor Maria O'Sullivan outlines the legal landscape of protest laws in Australia, revealing differences in state legislations and their practical implications on the right to peaceful assembly.
• The hosts discuss the potential hazards and moral considerations Christians must contemplate when deciding to join or abstain from protests.
• The 2014 film "Selma" is explored as a cinematic representation of how strategic, nonviolent protest led by Martin Luther King Jr. played a vital role in progressing civil rights.
• Historical and current contexts are evaluated to understand the role that protests play in democracy and societal change.

Notable Quotes:

1. "It's a moment of voice for the voiceless." - Michael Jensen on the significance of protests.
2. "There's a difference between something being performative and something being insincere." - Megan Powell du Toit on the nature of protests.
3. "You have the right to peaceful assembly, but there are exceptions… there has to be some proportionality." - Professor Maria O'Sullivan on the balance between protest and law.
4. "Protest, sort of the embodied nature of protest, I think, is something that's universal." - Megan Powell du Toit on the fundamental importance of protest.
5. "Even if a couple of people in a protest are violent, that does not make the whole protest violent." - Professor Maria O'Sullivan on defining peaceful assembly.

Resources:

• Deakin Law School
• "Selma" 2014 film directed by Ava DuVernay

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This season of With All Due Respect is sponsored by Morling College, a Christ-centred higher-education institution shaped by its Baptist heritage and broad evangelical vision. Morling is committed to rigorous theological study, deep spiritual formation, and learning how to engage faithfully and thoughtfully with difference. Study options include ministry and theology, counselling, chaplaincy, and education. Download a course guide to explore whether Morling is the right place for your next step.

In an age marked by political polarisation, moral confusion, and deep mistrust of institutions, what does it mean to live well together? Are we primarily citizens of the state, autonomous individuals, or something else entirely? Join Michael at the 27th Annual Tinsley Lecture on 21 May as he explores the distinctive political vision offered by Christian faith in Subjects and Citizens – What Christianity Offers a Fractured Public Square.

Key Takeaways:

• The anxiety surrounding parenting may be tied to societal pressures and cultural expectations, exacerbated by digital advancements and social media comparisons.
• Effective parenting often involves striking a balance between discipline and nurturing, a strategy supported by research on authoritative parenting.
• Vulnerability and authenticity in parenting, including open conversations about difficult topics, can foster a healthy family environment.
• Modern parents face unique challenges compared to previous generations, necessitating new methods and flexibility in parenting styles.
• Engaging in meaningful discussions with children about important life topics, like faith and personal responsibility, is crucial for their development and character building.

Notable Quotes:

• "Parenting has become a sort of visible metric of our sanctification." - Michael Jensen
• "We are parenting our children for this life and for the people that they interact with." - Collett Smart
• "We need to let go of expectations we had for them. Those are gone now." - Collett Smart
• "Parenting is a school for our own discipleship." - Michael Jensen
• "Allowing our children to experience some discomfort, but then supporting them through that." - Collett Smart

Resources:

• Her Podcast: Raising Teens with Collett Smart
• Collett Smart's Book: They'll Be Okay: 15 Conversations to Help Your Child Through Troubled Times

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Producer's note: In case the title has stirred up some strong emotions, women account for 75-80% of this genre.

Professor Catharine Lumby is an Australian academic, author and journalist, and is currently Chair of the Department of Media and Communications at the University of Sydney. Before transitioning to academia, Lumby had an extensive career in journalism, working as a feature writer and columnist for The Sydney Morning Herald, a news reporter for the ABC, and a columnist and senior writer at The Bulletin. She obtained her PhD from Macquarie University, after completing an Arts/Law degree at the University of Sydney, and went on to become the foundation Chair of the Media and Communications Department at the University of Sydney. Her academic career has included senior roles at UNSW, where she was the foundation Director of the Journalism and Media Research Centre, and at Macquarie University as Professor of Media, before returning to the University of Sydney as Professor of Media Studies. With research interests spanning gender, sexuality and popular culture, Lumby is also a widely published author and media commentator on gender and media, which makes her insights into the intersection of media consumption and social behaviors particularly impactful.

Key Takeaways:

• The true crime genre has historical roots in 16th-century Britain and has evolved from public ballads to podcasts.
• Women's consumption of true crime is often linked to a desire for empowerment and understanding in a world with prevalent gendered violence.
• Fictional detectives use empirical reasoning as a counterpart to be analysed alongside faith-focused narratives in crime.
• The host's discussion touches upon legal responses to crime and human fascination with extreme acts, pushing listeners to consider moral and spiritual reflections.
• Empathy is highlighted as critical to understanding the broader implications of true crime stories, beyond mere voyeurism.

Notable Quotes:

1. "True crime is an opportunity to really perhaps understand things from the victim's point of view, the survivor's point of view..." - Professor Catharine Lumby
2. "The Bible is a realistic book and it doesn't shy away from…difficult things." - Megan Powell du Toit
3. "At its deepest, realising that none of us are that far…from what we might see as monstrous." - Professor Catharine Lumby
4. "Empathy, for me, is the highest quality." - Professor Catharine Lumby
5. "The cross itself is a kind of true crime. It's a realistic display of evil and ultimate redemption." - Michael Jensen

Resources:

• Helen Garner's Works: Noted for her insightful writing on justice and human behavior.
• Truman Capote's "In Cold Blood": A seminal true crime book mentioned during the discussion.
• Teacher's Pet Podcast: Explored as a notable example of true crime media in Australia.

This season of With All Due Respect is sponsored by Morling College, a Christ-centred higher-education institution shaped by its Baptist heritage and broad evangelical vision. Morling is committed to rigorous theological study, deep spiritual formation, and learning how to engage faithfully and thoughtfully with difference. Study options include ministry and theology, counselling, chaplaincy, and education. Download a course guide to explore whether Morling is the right place for your next step.

Morling to Go  is a collection of free, short, video-based courses created by Morling College to support thoughtful Christian learning and formation. Designed for individuals, small groups, and ministry teams, each course includes teaching videos and discussion questions led by respected evangelical scholars and practitioners. Explore each course and find a resource that best fits your context.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This season of With All Due Respect is sponsored by Morling College, a Christ-centred higher-education institution shaped by its Baptist heritage and broad evangelical vision. Morling is committed to rigorous theological study, deep spiritual formation, and learning how to engage faithfully and thoughtfully with difference. Study options include ministry and theology, counselling, chaplaincy, and education. Download a course guide to explore whether Morling is the right place for your next step.

Morling to Go  is a collection of free, short, video-based courses created by Morling College to support thoughtful Christian learning and formation. Designed for individuals, small groups, and ministry teams, each course includes teaching videos and discussion questions led by respected evangelical scholars and practitioners. Explore each course and find a resource that best fits your context.

About the Guest:

Prof Miroslav Volf is a distinguished theologian and the Henry B. Wright Professor of Theology at Yale Divinity School, where he directs the Yale Center for Faith and Culture. Originally from Croatia, Volf has had a significant impact in theological circles through his focus on identity, otherness, and reconciliation. He is best known for his acclaimed book Exclusion and Embrace, which Christianity Today named one of the 100 most influential religious books of the twentieth century. Volf has also served as an advisor to the President’s Advisory Council on Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships at the White House.

Key Takeaways:

• Ambition is a multifaceted concept, often viewed as both a virtue and a vice across history and cultures.
• Miroslav Volf emphasises the toxicity of comparing oneself to others and how striving for excellence should surpass endeavors for superiority.
• The importance of intrinsic value over societal metrics in measuring success and personal worth is underscored.
• Biblical narratives, such as those in Philippians and the Gospels, highlight the transformative power of purpose-driven ambition for God's glory.
• The cultural portrayal of ambition, exemplified by classic literature and modern TV series, calls for a reflective look at our own motivations and societal structures.

Notable Quotes:

1. "God's love is not a generic thing thrown over the world; it remembers the specificity of the one."
2. "Each of us has a generic nature, but each of us has also a specific nature."
3. "Ambition with a pious swoosh can easily become selfish ambition if not directed carefully."
4. "The widow's two coins were worth more than the great sums of the rich; she gave everything."
5. "Our society often measures success quantitatively, but Jesus looked at the heart, the interior life."

Resources:

• Miroslav Volf's Book: The Cost of Ambition
• Miroslav Volf's Book: Exclusion and Embrace

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This season of With All Due Respect is sponsored by Morling College, a Christ-centred higher-education institution shaped by its Baptist heritage and broad evangelical vision. Morling is committed to rigorous theological study, deep spiritual formation, and learning how to engage faithfully and thoughtfully with difference. Study options include ministry and theology, counselling, chaplaincy, and education. Download a course guide to explore whether Morling is the right place for your next step.

Morling to Go  is a collection of free, short, video-based courses created by Morling College to support thoughtful Christian learning and formation. Designed for individuals, small groups, and ministry teams, each course includes teaching videos and discussion questions led by respected evangelical scholars and practitioners. Explore each course and find a resource that best fits your context.

About the Guest

The Reverend Dr. Amy Peeler is the Kenneth T. Wessner Chair of Biblical Studies and Professor of New Testament at Wheaton College in Illinois, and serves as a priest at St. Mark’s Episcopal Church in Geneva, Illinois. She earned her MDiv and PhD in Biblical Studies from Princeton Theological Seminary and is a New Testament scholar whose work often focuses on Hebrews and the relationship between men and women in Christianity. She has authored several books on Hebrews and most recently wrote “Ordinary Time,” which explores the meaning of this often overlooked season in the church year

Key Points:

• Sacred in the Mundane: The ordinary moments in life can hold spiritual significance, challenging the conventional belief that only extraordinary events are divinely touched.
• Liturgical Reflection: The Christian liturgical calendar offers a balanced rhythm of ordinary and special times, emphasising continual spiritual growth.
• Cultural Dualism: Exploring how religious traditions perceive and often segregate the sacred from the mundane, revealing potential tensions and integrations.
• Everyday Miracles: Leveraging routine and structure, such as daily prayers, can help recognise and appreciate God's omnipresence in everyday life.
• Ordinary as Extraordinary: The discussion in "Train Dreams" and the insights by Amy Peeler highlight finding fulfillment and divine purpose in ordinary life moments.

Notable Quotes:

• "When you change the nappy of the infant, pray to God the Father for, you know, pray in praise of his work in this small infant." - Michael Jensen
• "Ordinary time does help us practice for eternity… these repeated actions are growing." - Amy Peeler
• "God wants to sanctify us, grow and deepen our faith." - Amy Peeler
• "I think there's more here. You have to see that God has made creation." - Megan Powell du Toit
• "That repetition helps us to grow… it's built into a human. That's how we learn." - Amy Peeler

Resources:

• Hope 103.2 - The network carrying "With All Due Respect"
• Amy Peeler’s book: Ordinary Time: The Season of Growth - Provides insights into the liturgical calendar's significance

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Kanishka Raffel is the Anglican Archbishop of Sydney, leading the diocese since 2021. Born in England and of Sri Lankan descent, Raffel migrated to Australia as a child and initially raised as a Buddhist, he embraced Christianity during his university years. Before his current role, Raffel served as the Dean of St Andrew's Cathedral in Sydney and held pastoral positions in Canberra, Goulburn, and Western Australia. His unique background and leadership in the Anglican Church are marked by a commitment to multiculturalism and community integration.

Key Points:

• Multiculturalism and Faith: Raffel appreciates multiculturalism as both a cultural reality and a gospel opportunity, highlighting the biblical narrative from Babel to Pentecost.
• Christian Hospitality: The episode stresses the importance of Christians extending hospitality, modeled after God's hospitality, as a powerful means of advancing social cohesion and community relations.
• Navigating Fear: Exploring the role of fear in immigration debates, Raffel points to the online world’s potential to fuel radicalisation, emphasising the need for communities to remain non-reactive and welcoming.
• Biblical Framework for Immigration: Raffel uses Old Testament principles of welcoming the stranger to offer insights into current immigration policies.
• Leadership in Multicultural Contexts: Raffel calls for gentle, gospel-shaped leadership that acknowledges immigrants' vulnerabilities and models a Christ-like posture in public discourse.

Notable Quotes:

• "At Pentecost, the Gospel is proclaimed in many languages. In Antioch, the walls that divide the ethnic quarters come down in the church of Jesus Christ."
• "The openness of the people of God to the stranger culminates in the person of Jesus Christ. His Lordship is a hospitable one, not a totalitarian one."
• "There’s tremendous opportunity for Christians who have experienced the hospitality of God in the gospel to offer hospitality."
• "It's very easy for native-born Australians to underestimate how disruptive, isolated, and confusing it is to be a migrant."
• "Peaceable and considerate leadership is needed in today's multicultural debate, as it provides a great opportunity to engage with gospel-shaped responses."

This season of With All Due Respect is sponsored by Morling College, a Christ-centred higher-education institution shaped by its Baptist heritage and broad evangelical vision. Morling is committed to rigorous theological study, deep spiritual formation, and learning how to engage faithfully and thoughtfully with difference. Study options include ministry and theology, counselling, chaplaincy, and education. Download a course guide to explore whether Morling is the right place for your next step.

Morling to Go  is a collection of free, short, video-based courses created by Morling College to support thoughtful Christian learning and formation. Designed for individuals, small groups, and ministry teams, each course includes teaching videos and discussion questions led by respected evangelical scholars and practitioners. Explore each course and find a resource that best fits your context.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.