Wrestling Payments

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Tilled, to discuss the evolving world of payment processing. Caleb shares his journey from door-to-door sales to pioneering innovative payment solutions. He reflects on the complexities of the industry, highlighting the nuances of competing and partnering within the same space.

Caleb dives into the intricacies of payment facilitation, explaining how companies like Stripe and Square have revolutionized the field. He emphasizes the role of software-led payments in reshaping the industry, offering a glimpse into the future of payment processing. His insights reveal how technology and strategic partnerships are key in navigating this dynamic landscape.

The conversation also touches on the importance of adapting to industry changes and leveraging emerging opportunities. Caleb's expertise offers valuable lessons for aspiring entrepreneurs in the fintech space, illustrating the balance between innovation and practical business strategies.

Guest-at-a-Glance
Guest: Caleb Avery
What he does: Founder, CEO
Company: Tilled
Noteworthy: Caleb Avery: Started in payments at 19, door-to-door sales, evolved to angel investing and consulting.
Where to find Caleb: LinkedIn

Key Insights

The Evolution of the Payment Facilitator Model

 Caleb Avery discusses the complexities and the evolution of the payment facilitator (PayFac) model. Traditionally, becoming a PayFac involved a lengthy, costly process, often taking years and significant investment. This challenge inspired Caleb to innovate and create 'PayFac as a Service,' streamlining this process for businesses. 

Developing Product Management Skills

 Caleb reflects on the importance of honing product management skills in the technology sector. He emphasizes the complexities in decision-making, from feature prioritization to system design. Relying on customer feedback, intuition, and experience, Caleb underscores the pivotal role these skills play in achieving product-market fit. 

Adapting to the Competitive Payments Landscape

 Caleb observes the increasing competitiveness in the payment space, particularly noting the shift among traditional financial players. He points out that banks and acquirers are now more attuned to the vertical software landscape, recognizing both threats and opportunities in the evolving payments ecosystem. This insight showcases the dynamic nature of the industry, where established entities must adapt to remain relevant amidst the rise of new, agile competitors in the software-led payments world​​.

Episode Highlights
Caleb's Early Career and Introduction to the Payments Industry
Timestamp: [00:01:13]

 Caleb Avery shares his journey into the payments industry, starting at 19 with door-to-door sales, then progressing to angel investing and consulting in vertical software businesses. This experience allowed him to understand the payments landscape deeply, from direct merchant interaction to broader industry insights. His journey highlights the importance of grassroots experience in understanding and innovating in the payments sector.

"I started my career in the payment space at 19 years old going door-to-door selling payment processing services to small business owners... over time skilled up that first business and really between that first company until I started doing a lot of angel investing and consulting with vertical software businesses."​​

Role of ISOs in Payment Distribution
Timestamp: [00:15:59]

Caleb discusses the historical role of Independent Sales Organizations (ISOs) in distributing payment solutions to small business owners in the U.S. This segment sheds l

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Episode Summary
In the Season 1 Finale show of Wrestling Payments, Joe Casali delves into the dynamic world of financial technology and seeks audience input or crowdsourcing of the critical issues for 2024.

Joe discusses a list of important, interesting and pressing issues with a request of the audience suggest how the Association should direct resources and energy in 2024.

The episode closes with a call to action for listeners to participate in shaping the future content of the series. Casali encourages audience engagement through a survey, emphasizing the collective effort in navigating the complexities of modern payment systems. The episode sets the stage for continued exploration and discussion of financial technologies in the next season. Visit https://www.neach.org/podcasts to submit your ideas.

Key Insights
Rise of Fast Payment Systems: FedNow's Impact

Joe Casali discusses the rapid growth and adoption of FedNow, emphasizing its role in expanding payment options. With over 300 participants quickly joining, FedNow represents a significant move towards faster, more reliable transactions. The dialogue revolves around the operational and strategic implications of adopting such technologies. Casali questions how institutions should adapt their policies, risk management, and compliance in response to these faster payment systems, urging listeners to consider their impact on the broader financial landscape.

Navigating Payment Innovations Amidst Risks

The episode highlights the double-edged sword of technological innovation in the payment sector. Casali points to a recent ransomware attack affecting several credit unions as a case study for understanding the intertwined relationship between emerging technologies and their inherent risks. He calls for a robust understanding and preparation for these risks, emphasizing the need for proactive risk assessment and management strategies. The discussion extends to the broader implications for regulatory compliance and operational resilience in the face of these emerging threats.

Regulatory Landscape: A Moving Target

Addressing the ever-evolving nature of regulations, Casali speaks on the necessity of staying informed and adaptable. With regulatory frameworks constantly shifting, organizations must be vigilant and proactive in understanding and preparing for these changes. The conversation delves into how regulations impact various aspects of payment strategies and risk management. Casali encourages listeners to stay engaged with regulatory developments to effectively navigate the complexities and ensure compliance in a dynamic environment.

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Episode Summary

In this insightful episode of Wrestling Payments, Joe Casali dives deep into the complexities and challenges of payment operations. He emphasizes the critical role of problem-solving in the industry, highlighting how essential it is for professionals to understand the rules and mechanisms of different payment systems. Joe narrates a real-life story, maintaining anonymity, to illustrate the intricate process of payments, particularly focusing on the Real-Time Payments (RTP) system.

Joe begins by explaining the fundamental flow of an RTP transaction, involving the sender, sending bank, network, receiving bank, and receiver. He details the rapid and efficient process, emphasizing the speed and precision of these transactions. The episode takes an interesting turn as Joe introduces a third-party service provider in a transaction scenario, exploring how their involvement can complicate the payment process.

The heart of the episode lies in a case study where a transaction goes awry due to a mismatch between the receiving bank's system and the RTP network. Joe explains how a seemingly straightforward RTP transaction gets complicated by additional checks and balances introduced by the receiving bank. This leads to an insightful discussion on the importance of understanding payment network rules and the pitfalls of automated systems in handling exceptions.

Key Insights

The Importance of Problem-Solving in Payment Operations

In the rapidly evolving world of payments, problem-solving emerges as a crucial skill. Joe Casali discusses the changing landscape of payment operations, emphasizing the need for professionals who can navigate complex scenarios. He points out that understanding the rules and mechanics of payment systems, such as Real-Time Payments (RTP), is vital. This insight highlights how problem-solving goes beyond technical knowledge, requiring an adaptable mindset to address unforeseen challenges in payment transactions.

Navigating Complexities in Real-Time Payments (RTP)

The episode dives into the intricacies of the RTP system, illustrating its operational flow involving senders, banks, and receivers. Joe Casali explicates the speed and efficiency of RTP transactions, but also sheds light on potential complications. A key insight is the complexity introduced by third-party service providers in the payment process. This discussion underscores the necessity for thorough understanding and coordination among all parties involved in RTP transactions, highlighting how a single mismatch can lead to significant operational challenges.

Handling Exceptions and Automated Systems in Payment Networks

A compelling segment of the podcast revolves around a case study where an RTP transaction is disrupted by additional security measures. The episode reveals how automated systems, while efficient, can falter in handling exceptions, especially when they don't align with the payment network's protocols. This insight stresses the importance of balancing automation with human oversight. It serves as a cautionary tale about the pitfalls of over-relying on technology in payment systems, advocating for a more nuanced approach that considers the unique aspects of each transaction.

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Episode Summary

In the latest episode of Wrestling Payments, host Joe Casali and guests Dennis Walker and Stephen Dillon engage in a candid conversation about the complex world of third-party sender relationships in the realm of banking and ACH payments. Drawing from their extensive experience in the industry, Dennis and Stephen share valuable insights and practical wisdom that can help financial institutions navigate this intricate landscape effectively.

The discussion kicks off with an exploration of the key factors that define third-party sender relationships. Dennis and Stephen highlight that understanding and educating the entire workforce within a financial institution is paramount. They stress the importance of being proactive in risk management, recognizing red flags, and implementing preventive measures to maintain the integrity of ACH transactions.

Throughout the conversation, they emphasize the significance of regular annual reviews and check-ins with customers, especially the larger ones. These reviews serve as a crucial opportunity to assess any material changes in a customer's business, their sophistication level, and their evolving risk profile. By staying engaged and informed, financial institutions can adapt their risk management strategies to meet the evolving needs of their customers effectively.

Guest-at-a-Glance
Names:
Stephen Dillon, APRP, AAP, CTP , Eastern Bank
Dennis Walker, CIA, CISA, CRCM, CFSA, CRMA

Noteworthy: Stephen Dillon boasts a career in banking and treasury services, with a keen understanding of the intricacies of ACH payments and risk management. / Dennis Walker possesses a diverse background in banking and financial services, bringing extensive experience and knowledge to the discussion on third-party sender relationships.

Key Insights

Proactive Approaches to Spotting Third-Party Senders in Banking

Dennis and Stephen discuss strategies for identifying third-party senders in the banking industry. They highlight the importance of keyword analysis, company name checks, and reviewing client portfolios to spot potential third-party senders. Additionally, they stress the need to leverage annual reviews and customer engagement to stay vigilant in risk management.

Balancing Risk Mitigation and Customer Engagement with Third-Party Senders

Dennis, Stephen, and Joe underscore the significance of robust risk management practices and consistent customer engagement in dealing with third-party senders. They emphasize conducting risk assessments, due diligence, and maintaining open communication with clients. These practices help banks and financial institutions safeguard their interests and build trust with customers.

Deciphering the Gray Areas: Classifying Third-Party Senders in Banking

Stephen and Joe explore the complexity of classifying entities as third-party senders in the banking sector. They dive into scenarios where the distinction may not be straightforward, particularly in cases involving common ownership or management. The discussion highlights the need for institutions to make informed decisions and apply due diligence when determining third-party sender status.

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Welcome to another episode of Wrestling Payments.

In this episode of Wrestling Payments, host Joe Casali delves into the evolving landscape of real-time payments. He highlights the recent developments at The Clearing House, emphasizing the organization's efforts to enhance transaction speeds. Casali also discusses the integration of new hires in the payment industry, underscoring their role in bringing fresh perspectives and innovative approaches to traditional financial systems.

The conversation shifts to regulatory changes, focusing on the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau's (CFPB) new rules for digital wallets. Joe explains the implications of these regulations for consumers and businesses, outlining the balance between security and convenience. He also discusses Zelle's recent challenges with fraud, detailing their strategies to increase reimbursements and implement additional safeguards.

Lastly, the episode features insights on Keith Melton's contribution to the RTP network. The host explores Melton's strategies for future growth and the potential impact of these plans on the payments industry. He also touches on CFPB's proposals concerning technology companies in the financial sector, highlighting the need for a nuanced understanding of these new regulations.

Episode Highlights:

● Keith Melton's Joining the Clearing House
● New CFPB Regulation for Digital Wallets
● Zelle's Response to Increased Fraud
● Improvements in Zelle’s Fraud Control Measures

To hear this episode and many more like it, listen here or subscribe to Wrestling Payments on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts.

For show notes, transcripts, and other resources visit www.wrestlingpayments.com.

Host: Joe Casali, EVP, NEACH

#wrestlingpayments #wrestlingpaymentspodcast #paymentspodcast

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Episode Summary
In this episode of Wrestling Payments, host Joe Casali sits down with Mark Dixon, the Vice President of Education at NEACH. Mark dives into his journey in the banking and payment sector, highlighting his passion for the industry and the intersections of technology, disruption, and the future of banking. He emphasizes the importance of payments in various business sectors and the excitement of navigating the ever-evolving landscape.

Mark introduces "NEACH U," a reimagined educational platform designed to cater to various professionals in the payment space. From operational roles to treasury management, compliance, and risk management, NEACH U aims to provide individualized learning paths for all. The platform's goal is twofold: to benefit organizations by enhancing their employees' knowledge and to foster professional development for individuals.

Set to launch in 2024, NEACH U promises to be a transformative tool for payment professionals, guiding them towards the next steps in their careers and offering valuable insights into the world of payments.

Guest-at-a-Glance
Guest: Mark DIxon
What he does: VP of Education
Company: NEACH
Noteworthy: Mark Dixon: Vice President of Education at NEACH, passionate about payment evolution.
Where to find Mark: LinkedIn 

Key Insights
Mark Dixon's Passionate Journey in Payments

Mark Dixon's professional trajectory in the banking and payment sector is both intriguing and inspiring. Starting his career in banking, he didn't initially envision a future in the sector. However, as he dived deeper, especially into electronic banking, he discovered a fervent passion for payments. Mark's enthusiasm is not just about the technicalities of payments but also about understanding their intersection with various business sectors and the role of technology. 

Headline: Introduction of NEACH U: A Game-Changer in Payment Education

NEACH U is Mark's ambitious project, aiming to revolutionize payment education. This platform is not just another educational tool; it's designed to offer individualized learning paths for professionals in the payment space. Whether one is in operational roles, treasury management, compliance, or risk management, NEACH U promises a tailored learning experience. 

NEACH U's Vision: Individual Growth and Organizational Excellence

Mark emphasizes that NEACH U is more than just a learning platform; it's a roadmap for professional growth. Recognizing the diverse paths in the payment space, from operational to strategic roles, NEACH U is designed to guide professionals based on their unique needs and aspirations. The platform will not only serve as a knowledge hub but also as a catalyst for career advancement. 

Contact: [email protected]

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Episode Summary

​​In this episode, Joe Casali sits down with Sean Carter, the top man at Neach Payments Group. They dive deep into the world of risk management in payments. Sean emphasizes the power of interpersonal skills and the value of curiosity in the industry.

The talk shifts to the intricate dance between Enterprise Risk Management (ERM) and Strategic Risk Management (SRM). Both play pivotal roles in shaping the future of payments. Sean shares insights on how these concepts intertwine and their impact on the broader payment landscape.

Tune in to grasp the nuances of risk management from an industry leader. It's a conversation packed with expertise and actionable insights.

Guest-at-a-Glance
Name: Sean Carter
What he does: President & CEO
Company: NEACH
Noteworthy: Sean Carter: Newly minted Accredited Payment Risk Professional (APRP).
Where to find Sean: LinkedIn

Key Insights
The Power of Imagination in Risk Management

 Sean Carter emphasizes the importance of operations personnel in risk management. These individuals possess a wealth of institutional knowledge, allowing them to predict potential issues based on past experiences. Sean suggests that a combination of strong communication skills and the ability to envision various scenarios (imagination) can be invaluable. This imaginative foresight helps in anticipating challenges, especially those not immediately obvious.

The Role of Interpersonal Skills in Operations

 Sean highlights the significance of interpersonal skills in preventing blindsides in operations. Building good relationships across departments and consistently asking questions can prevent unexpected challenges. Being inquisitive and maintaining open channels of communication can preemptively address potential issues. Moreover, making others feel important can lead to more open sharing of information.

Understanding Risk Appetite vs. Risk Tolerance

 The distinction between an organization's risk appetite and risk tolerance is crucial. While risk appetite is the overall level of risk an organization is willing to accept, risk tolerance pertains to the degree of risk they're willing to take for a specific goal. Effective communication is essential to ensure everyone understands these concepts, aligning individual actions with the organization's broader risk strategy.

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In this episode, Joe Casali from NEACH dives deep into the world of ISO 20022, the international standard for payments messaging. While ISO 20022 might be a fresh face in the US, its significance can't be understated. Drawing a unique parallel, Joe likens the fervor for ISO 20022 to that of a "mark" in wrestling - someone deeply passionate and invested in the industry's narratives. As the conversation unfolds, it's clear: Joe is all in on ISO 20022, seeing its potential to reshape the payments landscape.

Guest-at-a-Glance
Name: Joe Casali
What he does: Host
Company: NEACH / Website
Key Insights

The Rise of ISO 20022 in Payment Systems

 ISO 20022, an international standard for payments messaging, is gaining traction globally. While it's not entirely new, it's becoming more prominent in the US. Various organizations, from SWIFT to the Federal Reserve, are adopting ISO 20022 for their messaging systems. The Clearinghouse's RTP and the Federal Reserve's Fed Now both utilize versions of ISO 20022, showcasing its versatility and widespread acceptance.

The Debate Over "Rich Data"

There's a buzz around ISO 20022's ability to include "rich data" in its messages. However, Joe Casali challenges this notion. While ISO 20022 can carry additional data, the depth and richness of this data are up for debate. For instance, while it can include a URL or a 140-character message, questions arise about the security and practicality of such features.

ISO 20022 vs. EDI: A New Era of Messaging

Comparing ISO 20022 to Electronic Data Interchange (EDI), Joe highlights the evolution of computer-to-computer communication in payments. While EDI had its challenges, ISO 20022 offers a more streamlined approach. Companies can send payment messages directly to financial institutions, ensuring smoother transactions and reducing the need for manual interventions.

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In this episode of Wrestling Payments, host Joe Casali sits down with Kevin Olsen, the Payments Professor. Kevin shares his unexpected journey into the payments field, sparked by a job loss during the dot-com bubble. His path led him to become a leader in the industry, teaching others about the intricacies of electronic payments.

The conversation shifts to the creation of Kevin's podcast, the Payments Podium. Kevin reveals how a casual comment from a colleague led him to start recording his discussions about the payments industry. He shares his approach to finding guests, focusing on individuals with years of experience and knowledge to share.

The episode wraps up with a discussion about the future of payments, particularly the importance of instant payment capabilities. Kevin emphasizes the need for the U.S. to compete globally in this area. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the evolution of the payments industry and the power of lifelong learning.

Guest-at-a-Glance

Name: Kevin Olsen
What he does: The Payments Professor
Company: Payments Professor
Noteworthy: Kevin Olsen, a tech graduate turned teacher, found his way into the payments industry by accident during the dot-com bubble burst.
Where to find Kevin: LinkedIn / Podcast

Key Insights

The Birth of Payments Podium 

Kevin Olsen shares the story behind his podcast, the Payments Podium. A casual comment from a colleague inspired him to record his discussions about the payments industry. He began by inviting people he knew to be guests and then expanded his network by asking each guest to recommend others. This approach has led to a wide variety of guests, each with their own unique experiences and insights to share. The podcast has become a valuable resource for anyone interested in the payments industry.

The Importance of Fun and Joy in Learning

Kevin discusses the importance of making learning fun, especially when it comes to complex topics like electronic payments. He emphasizes the effectiveness of 'edutainment,' a blend of education and entertainment, in facilitating learning. He also highlights the importance of bite-sized, easily digestible content that busy professionals can revisit and relearn at their own pace.

The Future of Payments 

The conversation concludes with a discussion about the future of payments. Kevin underscores the need for the U.S. to develop instant payment capabilities in order to compete globally. He believes that staying abreast of changes in the industry is crucial for success and that financial institutions must strive to be more than just 'afloat' – they should aim to lead.

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Episode Summary
In this episode of Wrestling Payments, host Joe Casali, along with guests Sean Carter and Mark Dixon from NEACH, dive into the world of payment systems. They tackle the pressing issues of misinformation and conspiracy theories in the payment industry. Carter, NEACH's president, views these as outside interference, while Dixon, Vice President of Education, sees them as a pulse of public sentiment.

The trio also discusses the concept of banking as a service, the role of financial institutions in supporting FinTech, and the importance of understanding disclosures when dealing with apps like Venmo and Cash App. They debunk the rumor of the government switching all benefits to FedNow and forcing every institution to join the platform.

Lastly, they address the theory of FedNow being the government's new cryptocurrency set to eliminate cash. They clarify that FedNow transactions are in US dollars, not digital dollars and that laws would need to change before a digital dollar could be implemented. Tune in for a deep dive into these topics and more.

Guest-at-a-Glance
Name: Sean Carter and Mark Dixon
What they do: President & CEO / Vice President-Education
Company: NEACH

Noteworthy: Sean Carter, President and CEO of NEACH, is a seasoned leader in the payment industry. He's known for his keen insights on misinformation and its impact on the payment system. Mark Dixon, Vice President of Education at NEACH, is a thought leader in the payment space. He's recognized for his understanding of the evolving landscape of banking and financial services.

Where to find them: Sean: LinkedIn / Mark: LinkedIn

KEY INSIGHTS
Misinformation as a Pulse of Public Sentiment

Misinformation in the payment industry is viewed differently by our guests. Sean sees it as outside interference, a tool used by some to confuse and scare the public for their gain. Mark, on the other hand, perceives it as a pulse of public sentiment, a reflection of what people are thinking and feeling about the payment space. This difference in perspective highlights the complexity of dealing with misinformation and the need for a nuanced approach.

The Role of Financial Institutions in Supporting FinTech

Mark discusses the concept of banking as a service. He highlights how proactive institutions are entering this space, backing FinTech partners and providing support. He emphasizes the importance of understanding disclosures when dealing with apps like Venmo and Cash App. This insight underscores the evolving landscape of banking and financial services and the need for consumers to be informed.

Debunking the Rumor of FedNow

The podcast addresses the rumor of the government switching all benefits to FedNow and forcing every institution to join the platform. The hosts clarify that FedNow transactions are in US dollars, not digital dollars and that laws would need to change before a digital dollar could be implemented. This insight dispels misconceptions about FedNow and emphasizes the importance of accurate information in the payment industry.