YourForest

Plant a tree. Plant another tree. Plant 1,999,999,998 more. That is what Canada is planning to do in the name of fighting climate change. 2 Billion trees planted by 2030. The Canadian Forest Service estimates that by 2050, the 2 billion additional trees planted could reduce GHG emissions by up to 12 megatonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent (Mt CO2e) annually – the equivalent of taking over 2 million gasoline-powered cars off the road each year. If that is not a big deal, I am not sure what is. Today we talk with representatives from The Canadian Forest Service(Government), Coast to Coast Reforestation (Nurseries), and Project Forest(Afforestation and Silviculture) to try and cover all the angles of this monumental task.

Resources

Anne-Hélène Mathey: https://sustain.forestry.ubc.ca/people/former-students/doctorates/dr-anne-helene-mathey/

Mike Toffan: https://projectforest.ca/team/mike-toffan/

Scott Formaniuk: https://treetimeservices.ca/about/our-team

Braiding Sweetgrass: https://www.amazon.ca/Braiding-Sweetgrass-Indigenous-Scientific-Knowledge/dp/1571313567/ref=asc_df_1571313567/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=293014842916&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6906331647491887417&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001251&hvtargid=pla-625520155112&psc=1

Quotes

20.56 - 21.01: “You don’t just plant any trees anywhere. You have to have the right tree, the right place.”

Takeaways

Progress statistics (13.25)

2 billion dollars have been allocated to the 10-year 2 Billion Trees program, beginning in 2021. Over 30 million trees of 50 species have been planted in 1 year across 500+ Canada sites.

Right tree, right place (19.34)

Anne-Hélène shares that tree planting is a challenging process. She envisions supply chain issues with seed collection, timing, and species that can adapt to the location’s climate.

Planting logistics (25.34)

Anne-Hélène discusses the option for multi-year contribution agreements in the program, wherein planting organizations become partners for a set number of years.

Biodiversity benefits (30.05)

Anne-Hélène would like to work in partnership with Indigenous groups, municipalities and private organizations. Trees must be planted on ecologically sound lands.

Human benefits (38.19)

In his experiences engaging the Indigenous communities, Mike has seen a “real, meaningful impact”. Planting a tree can be an enjoyably unique way to interact with nature.

Planting impacts (44.42)

Anne-Hélène is motivated by the progress the program has made the impact it has had on different communities. Mike ran a ‘Submit Your Tree Story’ contest, revealing impacts.

Location decisions (49.33)

Anne-Hélène mentions that they are working with wildlife service partners towards ensuring planting sites that will be most beneficial to support habitats and wildfire reduction.

Planting partners (56.44)

Scott highlights the importance of working with partners and forestry professionals to assess areas for planting based on the effects of burns.

Empowering nurseries (59.33)

Anne-Hélène speaks about training applicants who are not professional foresters and the infrastructure-style investments for nursery expansion.

Tree talk (1.07.11)

Anne-Hélène looks to those in the supply chain for feedback and to point the way forward for the next 9 years, addressing the climate and biodiversity challenges.

The bigger picture (1.17.52)

Anne-Hélène laments that the program is restricted to the 10-year timeline; communication will be paramount to keep course-correcting through this time frame.

What would forestry look like if Indigenous cultural values were the driving force behind management decisions, instead of western values? How would it be different? What would it mean to put timber as a secondary priority to ecosystem health? What if the primary intention of harvesting was to accomplish some ecosystem goal? What happens to the ecosystem? The community? The money? Let’s find out.

Resources

Westbank First Nation: https://www.wfn.ca/

Sponsors

West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/

GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/

Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/

Giveaway

Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!

Quotes

11.22 - 11.34: “I really want to be that voice for the trees, the voice for the land itself, the voice for the water, and all the things that haven’t had a voice up until this point or a limited voice at the very least.”

Takeaways

Dave’s forestry journey (4.24)

Dave has recently gotten the opportunity to work with Westbank First Nation on their community forest. This has changed how he thinks of forestry and land.

Jordan’s forestry journey (09.24)

Jordan, a member of the Westbank First Nation, has been elected to the council since 2019. He works with the community forest using a stewardship value approach.

“The work on the land is healing for our people” (16.27)

Jordan says that working in the community forest is a way for Indigenous people to re-establish the connection to the land that colonization took from them. 

Decision-making based on what the land wants, not what regulations want (18.12)

Dave acknowledges that every member of the ecosystem is interconnected. He regularly seeks feedback on forestry initiatives from diverse members of the community.

Active healing comes with honest discussions (23.54)

Jordan sees the opportunity for community forest members to work with the industry as a form of reconciliation and relationship building.

Upholding and incorporating Indigenous values (27.48)

Jordan feels that by helping foresters protect the lands by sharing Indigenous land values and laws, First Nations members can affect political change. 

“The worst plan you can have is the plan you can finish” (35.04)

Dave shares that land plans evolve constantly as more knowledge is added by community members about different portions of the community forest.

Connection and responsibility (41.37)

Jordan adds that stewardship springs from our responsibility to recognize Indigenous land rights as well as the implications one decision has on another aspect of the land.

7 generational planning (48.00)

Dave talks about basing all their forest management principles on the 7 generation planning framework, which considers the impact on the land for 7 generations to come.

WFN Management (1.03.16)

Dave explains the structure of the Westbank First Nation community forest management, licensing agreements and economic model. However, he maintains that “ensuring the land is cared for” in the best interest of the community is more important than profits.

Knowledge beyond the books (1.17.04)

Dave states Indigenous and non-Indigenous local knowledge is needed when working with any land, which is gained by conversing with those who have an intimate connection with the land.

Any chance I get to pick this guy’s brain I do it! Garry has spent decades considering the clashing of two cultures, Indigenous and western culture, and how the miscommunication between them has built up barriers that are difficult to break through. Garry lays out his experience, as an Indigenous person, and as a forester, regarding the past present and future of land management, communication, and collaboration. He explains the earth-based land ethic held by many First Nations cultures, and how this land ethic may be the answer to many of our questions, or at the very least worth considering.

Episode highlight

Garry Merkel speaks about the role that earth-based land management practice plays in restoring ecosystem integrity and health.

Resources

Studies discussed by Garry in this episode regarding moose browse;

The exceptional value of intact forest ecosystems

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323399911_The_exceptional_value_of_intact_forest_ecosystems

Roads and their major ecological effects

https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.ecolsys.29.1.207

Nutritional Quality and Tannin Astringency of Browse in Clear-Cuts and Old-Growth Forests

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271694789_Nutritional_Quality_and_Tannin_Astringency_of_Browse_in_Clear-Cuts_and_Old-Growth_Forests

Reconciliation with Garry Merkel: https://yourforestpodcast.com/episode-1/2021/11/29/btlw1dfftblgwjopr1bsspxc8zvelt

Sponsors

West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/

GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/

Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/

Giveaway

Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!

Quotes

1.21.10 - 1.21.20: “The likelihood of you being earth-centered increases significantly when you understand that your survival is completely dependent on taking care of the earth.”

Takeaways

Public expectation (06.44)

Garry explains how the role of the forester has expanded over the years to address too many issues, including economic demands. This has contributed to the loss of ecosystem function and biodiversity.

Industrial Forestry (10.54)

Garry talks about how the negative effects of large-scale industrial forestry in BC have only been recognized in the last few decades.

Clear Cuts (19.45)

Garry points out that the primary harvesting system in BC is clear-cutting which sets the ecosystem back because of the amount of disturbance.

Learning the hard way (26.38)

Garry claims that our society is now making different choices after seeing the impact of past choices.

Synergistic land care (34.44)

Garry highlights how New Zealand, Australia and a town in Wisconsin have modified their land management systems to align with the indigenous land ethic.

Radical regenerative forestry (41.16)

Garry shares about groups who are working on regenerative forestry to restore the health of the ecosystem by shutting down industrial activities for a while.

Indigenous ethic (45.46)

Garry is working with UBC to create an indigenous land center to gather and document the earth-centered land ethic.

Outcome, not output (1.00.05)

Garry says that we need to be very conscious of cost and efficiency so that we can afford to conduct sustainable land management.

Relationship plans (1.10.27)

Garry, as a scientist, has found many instances where indigenous knowledge has “turned out to be way more valuable than scientific knowledge”.

Earth at the core (1.17.50)

Garry dispels the myths that earth-centered management is uniquely indigenous and that all indigenous groups have it.

Caring for the land (1.24.38)

Garry is a strong supporter of how earth-centered ideologies are translating to land stewardship systems, some of which are pragmatic and economically effective.

Nature is unpredictable (1.34.15)

Garry states that you are doomed to frustration if you assume that nature is predictable.

Positive change (1.39.44)

Garry’s way is to educate and engage all the relevant parties, bring in the best scientists and foster a covenant with everyone to achieve the best outcomes possible.

If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to [email protected].

You know those soggy, low places, where the trees are leaning like they have had too much to drink, and the sharp yellow of the Tamaracks in fall makes you want to go for a long walk? Those are the places we are discussing today. Edward Struzik joins me to discuss his new book, Swamplands. He details the cultural histories, folklore, economic activities, species at risk, carbon capture capacity, flood mitigation and future, of the world’s peatlands.

Resources

Edward’s book: Swamplands: Tundra Beavers, Quaking Bogs, and the Improbable World of Peat

Sponsors

West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/

GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/

Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/

Giveaway

Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!

Quotes

34.37- 34.49: “Peatlands offer a much much better opportunity to deal with climate change issues and… also mitigate floods.”

Takeaways

Biological hotspots (04.42)

Edward speaks about his month-long river trip bursting with biodiversity which inspired him to write his book. He realized that peatlands provide great soil conditions as a medium for growth due to the accumulation of partially decayed vegetation in the wet, cold environment.

From pollutification to peatlands (13.09)

Edward explains that peatlands are formed by a kind of swamping. Swamps and marshes don’t accumulate as much peat as quickly as fens and bogs do, which are the primary accumulators of peat.

Wetlands are not wastelands (16.33)

Edward shares some superstitions surrounding wetlands that arose due to the methane making them glow in the dark. The smell of Sulphur dioxide arising from the peat as well as the diseases from the bacteria in the water supply have evoked a revulsion in the public.

An inexpensive, healthy ecosystem with carbon storage (28.01)

The peatland ecosystem has 5 times more carbon storage capacity than an equivalent area in the Amazon rainforest. Peat releases polysaccharides which block bacterial growth, it filters runoff from the farms to prevent the growth of algae in lakes, helps in preventing forest fires, mitigates floods, and hosts many carnivorous plants.

How to save the planet (37.01)

Edward has been advocating and teaching about controlled burning to thin out the forest, as indigenous communities do, which reduces the intensity of fires and makes more moisture available.

Restoring the peatland, restoring the habitat (51.60)

Edward laments that limiting peatlands prevents the 3 to 5 billion birds that migrate from the south to nest. He cites studies and recalls stories discussing how different species of animals take refuge in peatlands.

Protecting the protector of nature (1.06.59)

With investment toward restoring peatlands, Edward says that we can “have much more success storing carbon, filtering water, buffering forests from wildfire and protecting endangered species”.

Read, enjoy and learn! (1.18.25)

Edward’s aim in his book is to translate the debate of complex scientific issues to dinner-party conversation for the reader. He also aims to be more positive and centered, using optimism in his writing instead of picking sides in a battle.      

If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to [email protected].

If we want healthy ecosystems, we must balance the human demands of nature with the ecosystem’s capacity to provide it. For centuries, eastern Canada has experienced massive fire suppression, nearly complete loss of cultural fire, clearing for agriculture and homesteading, planting of non-native trees species for timber harvesting and so many other disturbances to its natural ecology. La Mauricie National Park is trying to right some of those wrongs and bring balance back to the landscape. This podcast details the last 30 years of prescribed fire in La Mauricie National Park and the lessons they have learned.

Episode highlight

Michel Thériault and Elisabeth Caron speak about using prescribed fire to manage the health of forests.

Resources

Restoration in Quebec’s Forests: https://www.iawfonline.org/article/7811/

La Mauricie National Park Fire Map Story https://www.pc.gc.ca/en/pn-np/qc/mauricie/nature/conservation/restauration-restoration/feu-fire/carte-narrative-story-map

Sponsors

West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/

GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/

Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/

Giveaway

Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!

Quotes

1.32.59 - 1.33.04: “There’s a lot more to learn when you fail than when you succeed.”

Takeaways

Starting from ground zero (05.28)

Michel studied wildlife management and forest ecology. His graduation was a profitable time to work with Parks Canada, as well as the beginning of the prescribed fire program.

Slowly but surely (14.19)

Michel is appreciative of the support that the province provided on fire prevention and suppression, without it being their mandate to do so. They used fire to replace plantations with natural forests.  

The good old days (25.40)

Michel says that in the 1950s, logging companies managed much of the land, and fishing and hunting clubs thrived. Today, the pre-industrial forest is used as a baseline to guide the prescribed fire program.

Managing land the right way (32.24)

Michel highlights the values at risk to be factored in while planning a fire regime - climate change, new insects and diseases of the trees. He notes that we “have to be cautious of doing our best with the knowledge we have” and learn from First Nations land custodians.

Adaptive land management (39.04)

Michel explains that after the prescribed fire regime, treatment, pruning, and active planting take place. With practice, research, lessons from the USA, cooperation from multiple stakeholders, and learning from mistakes, the program is now starting to show progress.

Challenges and opportunities (48.11)

Michel points out that it is a tough balance between effective but intensive fires and controllable but weak fires. He plans his work according to the seasons, factoring in humidity, wind, climate and species responsiveness.

Developing connections for knowledge (1.03.47)

There are prescribed fire projects being developed in collaboration with local First Nations, based on the location and proximity, Michel says. He would like to see Parks Canada promote this knowledge sharing to inform future fire management plans.

Let’s talk about fire (1.15.18)

Elisabeth joined the prescribed fire program in 2016 and found that some people agreed with their work and some were opposed to it. She believes talking about the natural role of fire will help people feel engaged with the program.

“Be adaptive, be ready to fail and try something else” (1.27.05)

Michel says that understanding the fire regime, the landscape, and its fire history is important. He warns against impatience with results and the fear of failure in working with prescribed fire.

If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to [email protected].

On this podcast we often talk about managing the forest for ALL values, equally, in a way that benefits all interests. Community forests may hold some answers. How do engage the public in a meaningful way? How do we embody cultural, recreational, and environmental values in forest management? How do we do collaboration right? The good folks of Wells Gray Community Forest might have some answers.

Community Forests with George Brcko

Episode highlight

George Brcko speaks about the role of community forests in paving the way to a sustainable future.

Resources

Wells Gray Community Forest:

http://wgcfc.ca/wp/

Use of LIDAR for Forest Inventory and Forest Management Application: https://www.nrs.fs.fed.us/pubs/gtr/gtr_wo077/gtr_wo077_193.pdf

Sponsors

West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/

GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/

Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/

Giveaway

Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!

Quotes

30.18 - 30.26: “Bring the people back into the forest. They think that they’re separated from it and industry is the one that controls it. Well, that’s not the case.”

Takeaways

“Forestry is an incredibly complex career” (04.44)

George’s passion for forestry began in his childhood growing up on an Ontario farm. The slower and more connected community forest world helped him discover forestry’s spiritual ties to the natural world.

The intersection of science and spirituality (09.42)

George explains that community forests are small tenures held by communities, including indigenous communities across BC. The profits from forestry go back into studying the community’s forests.

By the people, of the people, for the people (17.25)

George’s community forest in Clearwater is one of 63 in BC. Collaboration with the First Nations community is essential in the management and profitability of community forests. 

Bringing communities back into forestry (32.13)

George shares that the industry does purchase many resources from the activities of the community forests, and this generates revenue for communities to invest in their people.

The educational role of community forests (37.01)

Each community decides how they will manage their local forests based on their unique values and priorities, and are liable for the consequences. More than half have 50% indigenous ownership.

Playing with fire (40.25)

Fire management, says George, is a big concern for community forests and they put their effort into fuel management, burning techniques and retrieving burn areas.

We do need some education (45.00)

The outreach work done by the community forests includes public meetings, education sessions for citizens and children and awareness campaigns.

The Good Forest (47.44)

George is driven by the work he does because he has seen the worldwide good that surplus profits from community forestry can do.

Let’s do better, let’s go again (54.41)

George acknowledges the debates around clear-cutting and how he incorporates those in the work that he does. He has creates a public interface group to create awareness, educate and bridge gaps.

First Nations leading the way (1.14.33)

Some First Nations community forests even use the 7-generational model to study the impacts on the next 7 generations. Wells Gray Community Forest hopes to learn from the CFA’s which have FN leadership for this objective.

If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to [email protected].

What does reconciliation have to do with forestry? “It has everything to do with it.” - Garry Merkel. If we want to be stewards of the land we need to be able, and willing, to support those whose livelihoods and culture are dependent on it. In this episode, Garry opens his heart to us so that we may better understand our role as stewards and as people. His honesty and openness make him a true role model.

Episode highlight

Garry Merkel is a member of Tahltan First Nation and a Registered Professional Forester. He has spent his career helping to build First Nations governance. Here, he speaks about the history of Indigenous peoples in Canada, reconciliation with them, and learning how to care for the earth from them.

Resources

Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act (DRIPA): https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/governments/indigenous-people/new-relationship/united-nations-declaration-on-the-rights-of-indigenous-peoples

Sponsors

West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/

GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/

Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/

Giveaway

Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!

Quotes

20.07 - 20.22: “Spirituality means how do you take comfort and make sense out of the fact that you are infinitely small in a place you know nothing about and nothing about that is ever going to change.”

20.28 - 20.38: “We have such a deeply rooted fear of loneliness as a species, we’re the most gregarious thing we know of that has ever, ever existed.”

36.15 - 36.21: “The predator-prey relationship is one of the crucial parts that keeps the landscape in balance.”

45.47 - 45.54: “There’s always a segment of society that are just wilfully ignorant… that’s just the way it is.”

46.23 - 46.33: “The thing about racism and sexism and all those isms is every one of those comes from a very deeply rooted insecurity.”

56.36 - 56.38: “Nothing is good or bad in nature, nature just is what nature is.”

58.07 - 58.15: “Reconciliation is a very human process of us all understanding that we are all human and bringing things back to balance.”

Takeaways

How culture has been shaped (04.47)

Garry identifies as indigenous and points out that until recently, the indigenous community was marginalized and did not have a voice in Canada. He speaks about the indigenous community being a Fourth World Country - a Third World Country living in a First World Country. What inspired him to be involved in reconciliation work was the richness of culture that Canadians were missing out on by not participating in reconciliation with the indigenous. 

How the relationship deteriorated (07.00)

Garry laments that people are not inspired to be involved in reconciliation because they don’t all know what it implies. He recounts that settlers first came to Canada for commerce, and their relationship with the indigenous was synergistic. The entire Metis Nation, a blended society, was formed. However, when Canada began to become a confederation, settlers began to view the indigenous as unfit for the new society.

The roots of systemic racism (09.60)

Garry highlights that the way of viewing indigenous peoples as less than settlers is the paradigm Canada was built on, and it is reflected in the treaties, laws, policies, and interactions with the indigenous since the beginning. Reconciliation is about righting those wrongs in every dimension of society by first understanding how systemic racism manifests in our interactions and eliminating it to bring about a more equal human relationship.

The indigenous were here long before the settlers called this their home (13.45)

Garry explains that indigenous peoples didn’t have the right to vote till recently. They were not allowed to leave the reserve without a permit. Indigenous populations still don’t own their reserves, since it is considered crown land. Sexism, along with racism, is also rampant in the treatment of the indigenous - an Indian woman loses her status if she marries a non-status person, but a non-status woman gains status if she marries a status Indian man.

Spirituality is a way to make sense of life (19.37)

Garry rates cultures based on how they derive comfort from spirituality. On one end of the spirituality, spectrum are control-based cultures that view humans as above nature and think of God as human-like. On the other end is a surrender-based approach of awe-inspired observation. Indigenous cultures are earth-based and define spirituality as their rooted relationship to land and nature, learning about human animals by observing non-human ones.

To think of anything as unnatural is a mistake (29.24)

Garry believes that people call things unnatural for 2 reasons - they feel superior and separate from nature therefore their actions to nature become unnatural, and because they don’t trust themselves to care for the planet so they don’t pay attention to their ecological footprint. The crux is in learning how to live with the land and its other inhabitants well. He shares anecdotes of working with indigenous communities and relearning their ethical relationship with the land.

Truth is a slippery slope (43.26)

Garry emphasizes the importance of learning about indigenous populations and about one’s own insecurities since all bias come from “building your strengths by trying to create weaknesses in others”. It takes pain, time, and effort to question one’s misbeliefs, dismantle one’s old character and learn to live with humaneness. He aspires to help everyone he comes across take off their blindfolds and build a broader, deeper, higher understanding of people.

Reconciliation is largely a human process (57.39)

Garry quotes Justice Murray Sinclair to explain that reconciliation does not work if one side believes it's some kind of recognition of rights and the other side believes it's a benevolent act. The path is to reconciliation is to introspect and face what people close to you may have done and find a way to equality and harmony. There are legal, technical, and political aspects to reconciliation, but a huge part of the journey is the human element of it.

Face your demons (1.01.04)

Land management evolves by people facing their own mistakes, recognizing the need for change, and coming up with new constructs to implement - on repeat! Garry advocates learning from indigenous people’s understanding of relationships to the land instead of defaulting to mass denial of problems. Through a philosophical evolution and societal paradigm shift to collaborative indigenous land management, we can relearn how to care for the land.

If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to [email protected].

If you could decide how our forests will be managed, what would you do? Would you make drastic changes? Who, or what would be informing those changes? Would it be politics? Science? Culture? History? Or maybe a combination of these things. Today, we are going to dig into one of these aspects. Our history, specifically the history of forest regeneration. This will provide some much-needed context for what should come next.

Episode highlight

Milo Mihajlovich speaks about the problems in forestry and their solutions - past, present and future.

Resources

The Lance and the Shield: The Life and Times of Sitting Bull: https://www.amazon.ca/Lance-Shield-Life-Times-Sitting/dp/0805012745

Crazy Horse: A Lakota Life: https://www.amazon.ca/Crazy-Horse-Mr-Kingsley-Bray/dp/0806139862/ref=asc_df_0806139862/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=459574977763&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1179328204433988437&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001251&hvtargid=pla-489096027991&psc=1

Sponsors

West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/

GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/

Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/

Giveaway

Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!

Quotes

25.19 - 25.38: “We have done better and better at reforestation. At the same time, we have tended to do a much less robust job of examining our assumptions and adjusting our assumptions to reflect learning.”

Takeaways

The way we were (06.43)

Milo shares that the structure of the bison on the great plains was not primarily a commercial enterprise, but a United States military plan to defeat the indigenous by destroying their cavalry. He also clarifies that regeneration standards in Alberta had not come into place in the 1990s, but much earlier, and explains the new paradigm of forest management that was emerging which involved reforesting and sustainable management.

Milo’s journey (17.06)

Milo worked with his father on the diameter limit - not cutting trees below a certain diameter. His uncle, who was a forest ranger, inspired him to enter the professional stream instead of the technical one. He discusses the models and agreements in place in the 1960s which led to better forest inventory. However, he laments not considering anthropology at the time or the importance of low-intensity fires. 

The changing faces of the forest (28.41)

Milo’s most important work following his early years was to protect the forest from low-intensity fires. He also worked in silviculture and land reclamation. He breaks down the use of sequential surveys in regeneration. He worked in chemical herbicides when the regeneration standards were being redefined to include a performance requirement of the forest. He returned to forestry because he wanted to improve the forestry practices in Alberta.

Ground truth with statistical rigour (52.46)

Milo’s solution to some conflicting requirements of the performance standard was to discuss it with policy personnel. It was difficult to balance the free-growing conifers with maintaining wildlife habitats. The current regeneration standard in Alberta is now different and compares the present state to the assumptions made in the written forest management plan. However, the new challenge is that stakeholders want ecosystem services to be considered as well.

Risks of regeneration approaches (1.03.17)

Milo warns that some approaches to regeneration are risky because we don’t understand “the dynamics of how forests achieve the volumes that we harvest, especially mixed woods”. He expounds on the challenges of using tools in the management of mixed woods. Apart from that, there are also the myriad other footprints humans have on the landscape. However, now, it is possible to assess outcomes using computerized image collection and data manipulation.

True consultation and engagement (1.08.41)

Milo believes that consultation and engagement should not just be asking stakeholders what they want and including it in the plan, but to have them be a part of the planning and execution processes as well. When stakeholders see plan optimizations, there is a recognition of the “shifting mosaic of plant communities” and the associated ecosystem services. Stepping away from deterministic succession allows a discussion of plant community assembly.

Assembly theory (1.13.47)

Milo delineates the assembly theory as the assessment of the disturbance on a site and its impact on the plant community. He uses the examples of drought and caterpillars to explain how natural phenomena can cause disturbances. He used the assembly theory to build a habitat supply model, which can also become a platform for collaboration for the energy and forest industry, and their stakeholders. 

Thinking things together (1.19.29)

Milo organized a workshop in partnership with the business facilitators at the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology (NAIT). 30 people were invited but the government was excluded. They presented the habitat supply model and had the attendees break out into focus groups with one representative from each industry to offer solutions. Milo believes that a triad approach would be the solution, even though there may be challenges on this path too.

The rocky road (1.28.50)

Milo lists the skepticism and criticism he has had to encounter, but is heartened that the conflict of opinions pushes everyone towards progress. He also looks back on the mistakes made in forest management - denying the value of fire, and assuming that forests were untouched by indigenous populations. In working with the indigenous, he has learned about their political structures and the “well-deserved resentment” they hold towards settlers.

Learning and personal growth (1.39.22)

Milo is of the opinion that to gain the trust of indigenous people, someone who has the knowledge of geography and psychology will have to be the neutral mediating third party. Energy companies support this approach but forestry companies don’t. He encourages the next generation of foresters to engage with reconciliation and make change the center of their approach. He says that when people feel empowered, they will continue to do this difficult work

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As land stewards, we spend most of our time discussing the hard science. If we take this action on the landscape how will that affect everything else? For today’s episode, we are stepping out of our comfort zone and into the mysterious and intimidating world of people. How do people’s views and relationship to nature change how we manage it? If we could adjust society’s perspective, how would that shift the outcomes of environmental management? Ultimately, how does sociology change things?

Your Forest Podcast by Matthew Kristoff

Environmental Sociology with John Parkins

Episode highlight

John Parkins speaks about the role of society in forestry and how meaningful engagement with indigenous communities is the future of land management.

Resources

John Parkins’ Profile: https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/jparkins

fRi Research: https://friresearch.ca/sites/default/files/HLP_2019_03_EBM%20Dialogue_Paper_Final.pdf

Sponsors

West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/

GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/

Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/

Giveaway

Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!

Quotes

8.36 - 8.51: “We often think that... we can... get out there in the world when we are young and… we can change it, and I guess I realized that… changing the world is a lot more challenging than we think but... we also can make our own contributions in one way or another.”

17.16 - 17.27: “Pretty much every problem we are dealing with ultimately is a social problem... because .. [there] wouldn't be a problem unless humans came along and decided it was a problem.”

20.46 - 21.06: “A lot of times, the… controversies that we are dealing with, at the heart of it, involve scientists themselves who are disagreeing with each other... and they are doing that because they are looking at different elements of a very complex world out there and measuring things in different ways.”

1.02.18 - 1.02.29: “That’s, I think, a part of the decolonization process - we need indigenous leaders in key positions of leadership, we need indigenous leaders in our industries, we need them in the government, we need them at the university.”

Takeaways

“It was less about me choosing sociology and more about sociology choosing me”  (4.25)

John worked in East Africa for 2 years and felt inspired to work internationally in poverty alleviation and rural development, which led him to develop an interest in issues around sustainability. He did a Master’s in Rural Sociology from the University of Alberta and then worked on social issues in forestry at the Canadian Forest Service. He now works in the Department of Resource Economics and Environmental Sociology at the university.

Society and forestry (10.42)

John explains that sociology is the study of groups and group experience, using social facts or contexts to explain social problems. Environmental sociologists are interested in the interaction between society and the natural world, bringing environmental variables and factors into an explanation of human behaviour. Environmental sociology in forestry explores the forest-society relationship through forest-based communities, community sustainability studies, and the like.

Every problem is a social problem (16.21)

John laments that many people in the resource sector don’t think about social contexts. While the scientific method can be used to achieve breakthroughs, the biggest challenge in this work is conflict resolution amongst competing views of disagreeing social groups with varied scientific positions. He cites the example of the lack of consensus on the definition of Ecosystem-Based Management (EBM) in Alberta.

Find a middle path or find the right answer (25.03)

John believes that to move forward from the conflict of competing scientific views, we need to find a middle path or experiment to find the right answer. Even though the government fears experiments going badly, trying small experiments on small blocks of land may uncover new possibilities. During his Ph.D., he attended public advisory committee meetings which asked the local forestry company to set aside some land as the control for the experiment to proceed.

Delinking of industry and community (31.55)

An example of a successful experiment in Canada on the social context of forestry is British Columbia’s 100+ community forests initiative. Communities take a long lease term on crown land, and through a local community board, manage the forest landscape based on their values, vision and benefits the community receives from doing so. Communities get to have a say in how industry uses the forests too.

Meaningful engagement with indigenous communities (42.52)

John highlights the need to have a meaningful form of engagement with indigenous communities. Meaningful consultation could mean developing meaningful relationships with trust, collaboration and shared values. However, John supports rooting the conversation in a decolonization context where indigenous communities have control over the decisions made for the land. However, not all indigenous communities agree with the consultation guidelines today.

Indigenous land management (47.40)

John believes indigenous consultation must go beyond dialogue to equity ownership in land and encourages experimentation to find a successful way to invite indigenous stakeholders as equal players in landscape management. He also emphasizes the need to manage the multiple values in forestry, factoring in conversations around indigenous forestry, decolonization in forestry and economic development through forest management.

Forestry’s way forward (1.01.34)

The University of Alberta is working to secure funds for a new faculty position in indigenous forestry. John hopes to see indigenous leaders drive the conversation for indigenous forestry and create the change they wish to see. Academic literature on indigenous management of conservation areas shows that such areas have better ecological values, and he believes that should be the way forward for forestry.

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Old Growth. What does that mean? How old is Old? How big is Big? How much is out there? How ecologically unique is it? And finally, how should we interact with it? It is one of the last natural remnants of a pre-industrialized society. Many relate it to the loss of the great barrier reefs or the shrinking Amazon rainforest. Why is there still so much conflict and how is it going to be resolved. What does the future of Sustainable Forest Management look like? Today, we seek some answers.

Your Forest Podcast by Matthew Kristoff

Old Growth with John Innes, Andy Mackinnon and Garry Merkel

Episode highlight

John Innes, Andy Mackinnon and Garry Merkel discuss the importance of old growth forests for ecosystem health.

Resources

A New Future For Old Forests: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/farming-natural-resources-and-industry/forestry/stewardship/old-growth-forests/strategic-review-20200430.pdf 

BC’s Old Growth Forest: https://sierraclub.bc.ca/wp-content/uploads/bcs-old-growth-forest-a-last-stand-for-biodiversity-report-2020.pdf

Review Panel Old Growth Strategy: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/farming-natural-resources-and-industry/forestry/stewardship/old-growth-forests/written-submissions/020_anton-van-walraven.pdf

Sponsors

West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/

GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/

Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/

Giveaway

Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!

Quotes

39.48 - 40.02: “Even if the climate weren’t changing, which it most assuredly is, it would probably take you... 1000 or 1500 years to begin to approach the structure of the forest that you’d logged in the first place.”

50.02 - 50.36: “There... [is] a younger generation that is coming through that hopefully will not address biodiversity as being a constraint or maintaining the soil as being a constraint or maintaining clean water supplies as a constraint, they will see these as ecosystem services that simply have to be provided and that the timber that you can maybe get from a forest is the return on the capital that you are investing.”

1.02.35 - 1.02.59: “Our whole way that we learn about forest management right now is from the perspective that forests exist for the benefit of humans, that is our perspective. We don’t... look at them as intrinsic values. We are very self-centred as a species: everything is here for us and - What can we take? How can we maximize the benefit from it?”

Takeaways

Andy’s story (6.26)

Andy has worked as a forest ecologist since the 1980s and has been involved with ecosystem classification and mapping, and forest research projects characterizing the differences in structure, function and composition of old growth and second growth forests in BC. He has chaired the research and inventory for BC’s old growth strategy and is an advocate of the need to change land use and forest management in the province.

John’s story (9.15)

John grew up in Scotland and served in the forestry commission, worked in Switzerland for 7 years then moved to BC in 1999, where he is now the Chair of Forest Management at UBC. He has worked on many forest management issues such as the relationships between forestry companies, the government and First Nations. He has advocated for the use of science in decision and policymaking. The variety of opinions got him interested in the old growth debate.

Garry’s story (14.23)

Garry’s work has been around leveraging land ecology to empower communities to “envision and shape their own futures”. His work in old growth is geared towards managing old growth to ensure the health of the land and the ecosystem. He defines old growth as the stage and age of an ecosystem, be it grassland, marine complex or forest, that has evolved in richness and complexity over time.

Not fine to define (22.56)

Andy recalls the time when they were grappling with finding the right definition for old growth in the 1990s. They wanted a universally understood definition that could be used for statistics too. Using strictly age-based definitions runs into conflict with inventory-based definitions; neither paint an accurate picture of the ecosystem by themselves. That is compounded by the fact that many lower productivity old growth forests are in protected areas.

“You can’t grow old growth” (29.54)

Garry explains that iconic ecosystems have spiritual and cultural values associated with them. When components of old growth are lost, so are species and critical functions in the landscape, giving way to the risk of biodiversity loss and disease susceptibility, the maximum risk being at 30% loss of old components. His team suggests deferring harvesting in areas where very few rich ecosystems are left since old growth is not renewable after conventional clear-cutting.

A light touch on the landscape (34.25)

Garry outlines the differences between the Natural Disturbance Types (NDTs) in various ecosystems. His trick is to use silviculture systems that mimic NDTs and to keep 70% of old growth in a landscape - a paradigm shift he is advocating for. John has noticed a willingness in forestry workers to change their approach, though economists may discourage it. He wonders how to implement these changes in the least disruptive way for maximum progress.

Benefits, not the volume of timber (52.25}

Andy shares that legislation clearly states that business interests have to be balanced with ecological ones. The land-use plans of larger ecosystems are informed by the risk percentage Garry mentioned. Since land is a public resource, he believes that treaty settlements need to be in place for the revenue and jobs from these to be passed on fairly forward across generations. One consideration is the generation of revenue from the forest without logging it.

Who decides what is the best use of land? (1.00.57)

In his review with Al Gorley, Garry recommended that the First Nations in BC be more directly involved in making decisions about the land. They have created a system to accommodate the required cut-offs in important metrics, factoring in the constraints. He laments that land management has become a fight for the most concessions, without any invested thinking into land health. Education and increased understanding of proper land management are needed.

Land, people, collective wisdom, community (1.09.39)

Garry and Al found value in working with indigenous communities, translating the land ethic into land management systems using innovative and practical approaches. He hopes this can be applied at the provincial level in land policy to look at land as a whole, and not manage 1000-year-old ecosystems on 4-year political cycles. Indigenous communities can teach others how to build appropriate systems to connect with and look after the land.

“Forestry isn’t rocket science; it’s way more complex than that” (1.19.44)

John acknowledges that current forestry education is “still very much old school”, with competencies defined by the professional associations. He and Garry have been working on creating an undergraduate program that imparts necessary skills and knowledge. Andy highlights the complexity of forest management, while Garry notes that managing forests has become more about “translating public expectations into the way our forests look”.

“Liars figure and figures lie” (1.27.46)

Andy brings to attention the fact that influential people in important positions don’t always agree with the need for change. Provincial governments and indigenous people need to take the lead in enabling change. He discusses generating employment and revenue without logging forests. Garry warns against statistics presented to bring forth a certain point of view, and how that influences public opinion and business strategy.

“If you don’t know what’s out there, how can you possibly manage it well?” (1.36.24)

John supports a good quality inventory as a way to better manage land use, and Garry suggests a proper classification of old growth for managing the ecosystem. Andy shares the different approaches to creating a professional inventory. Garry recommends factoring in indexes of biodiversity and connectivity along with other metrics. Involving the wisdom of indigenous communities is important since this is “not purely a science exercise”.

We have protected areas because we can’t trust ourselves to look after them (1.44.25)

Garry advises intensive land management be driven by ecosystem health, using zoning to help us reach the desired state. Andy believes that silvicultural systems should be designed so that the regenerated forest “isn’t 100% different in all aspects from the forests we cut down in the first place”. Garry shares examples of when proper land management has restored the richness of the ecosystem.

Old growth is a critical flashpoint (1.55.19)

John predicts that climate change is going to lead to an increase in serious forest fires in the interiors, whereas coastal Allowable Annual Cut (AAC) will reduce. Andy is of the opinion that the inherent value of an ecosystem is separate from human value. Garry explains that any approach other than one made considering old growth’s importance in ecosystem health will lead to catastrophe.

We Shall overcome (2.06.08)

John sees the path forward as being led by indigenous peoples managing the land, even though there will be differences in how each indigenous community wants to use it. Garry and Al’s recommendations to the government have been adopted, and many First Nations organizations have passed resolutions to support them. He believes the transition to applying the suggestions is the hard part, but with adequate support, it can be done.

If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to [email protected].