Scott Payne is a retired FBI agent and career undercover operative. Known for infiltrating some of the most dangerous domestic terror groups in the U.S., he now writes, trains, and advocates for smarter law enforcement strategies—and a second chance for those who truly want out. He’s a believer in justice, redemption, and calling hate by its name.

Follow Scott on Instagram:@scottpaynebigcountry and check out his brand-new book: Code Name: Pale Horse — a raw, real look inside the FBI’s most dangerous undercover ops.

 

Episode Description:

In Part 2 of CSI Sheryl McCollum’s conversation with retired FBI agent Scott Payne, we dive into one of his most dangerous assignments: two years undercover with the Outlaws Motorcycle Club in Massachusetts. From fake drug deals and cartel cover stories to a basement wire check that nearly cost him everything, Scott explains what it really takes to survive deep undercover.

If you thought infiltrating The Base deep in the woods of the Pacific Northwest was intense, wait until you hear what happened when members of the Outlaws Motorcycle Club ordered him to strip at gunpoint.

 

Show Notes: 

• (0:00) From Georgia to Massachusetts, Scott recounts his time undercover with the Outlaws Motorcycle Club
• (4:00) Meet “Tex,” the car thief: stolen vehicles, staged deals, and the slow build of credibility
• (5:00) A fake cartel pipeline opens the door to something much bigger — and far more dangerous
• (8:00) “I lived to fight another day.” Two armed bikers, a basement, and a wire check that could’ve blown it all
• (14:00) His team was listening — and almost took out a wall to pull him out
• (16:00) Nearly 2,000 miles away, Scott’s wife pulls off the road with a sense of dread she can’t explain
• (17:45) Sheryl shares her own “undercover” mission — cracking down on counterfeit T-shirts at a Grateful Dead concert
• (18:45) Clothesline won’t say sorry—but he hated being the one to do it
• (24:00) Sheryl plugs the book and gives props to Scott — not just for the work, but for always lifting up his team
• (26:00) The last word belongs to Donnie Brasco: “The FBI gave you a cheap medal and 500 bucks. Was it worth it?” “Yes.”

Thanks for listening to another episode! If Zone 7 is part of your weekly routine, show us some love with a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. It helps more folks find the show—and helps us keep telling these stories.

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Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award-winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnline, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook Cold Case: Pathways to Justice and the founder/director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute — a collaboration between universities and the criminal justice community that advances techniques for solving unsolved homicides, missing persons, and kidnapping cases.

Social Links: 

• Email: [email protected] 

• Twitter: @ColdCaseTips 

• Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum 

• Instagram: @officialzone7podcast 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

CSI Sheryl McCollum sits down with retired FBI agent Scott Payne, who went deep undercover inside a violent white supremacist group known as The Base.

From satanic rituals to grooming kids on Roblox, Scott reveals how he earned their trust—and helped bring their network down from the inside.

This is Part 1 of a raw, unfiltered look at radicalization, recruitment, and the real-world tactics used to spread hate.

Scott Payne is a retired FBI agent and career undercover operative. Known for infiltrating some of the most dangerous domestic terror groups in the U.S., he now writes, trains, and advocates for smarter law enforcement strategies—and a second chance for those who truly want out. He’s a believer in justice, redemption, and calling hate by its name.

Follow Scott on Instagram:@scottpaynebigcountry and check out his brand-new book: Code Name: Pale Horse — A raw, real look inside the FBI’s most dangerous undercover ops.

⚠️ Listener Advisory:

This episode contains graphic descriptions of violence, animal cruelty, hate group ideology, and child exploitation. Listener discretion is strongly advised.

 

Show Notes: 

• (0:00) Sheryl welcomes Scott Payne, retired FBI agent and undercover operator known as Pale Horse
• (1:00) Inside The Base — a newer kind of white supremacy with global connections
• (1:45) Accelerationism explained: why these extremists want to speed up society’s collapse
• (3:15) The man behind the madness: The Base’s leader and his Russian relocation
• (4:00) A darker turn — 764, satanism, and how extremists groom children through platforms like Roblox and Minecraft
• (6:15) Halloween 2019: a hate camp, a cold snap, and a stolen goat that didn’t stand a chance
• (10:00) Operating undercover — “It’s not always cakes and pies.” Into the woods with a machete and a mission
• (15:00) Blood, acid, and a goat’s head — a ritual unfolds over three days with hallucinogens, photo ops, and propaganda designed to radicalize and recruit
• (17:30) “What was your red pill moment?” — the art of playing dumb, feeding egos, and staying undercover without getting made
• (22:00) From felon to future — why Scott wrote a reference letter for the man he once helped put away

 

Thanks for listening to another episode! If Zone 7 is part of your weekly routine, show us some love with a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. It helps more folks find the show—and helps us keep telling these stories.

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Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. Sheryl is also the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, a collaboration between universities and colleges that brings researchers, practitioners, students and the criminal justice community together to advance techniques in solving cold cases and assist families and law enforcement with solvability factors for unsolved homicides, missing persons, and kidnapping cases.   

Social Links: 

• Email: [email protected] 

• Twitter: @ColdCaseTips 

• Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum 

• Instagram: @officialzone7podcast 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week on Crime Roundup, Sheryl McCollum takes the mic solo as Nancy Grace officially steps back from her regular Friday seat. Sheryl looks back on the past year with gratitude, sharing what made their time together unforgettable—Nancy’s sharp wit, loyalty, and the kind of friendship that runs deep. Then, it’s on to two cases that are anything but ordinary: a 17-year-old girl accused of murdering her parents, and a smuggler in Germany caught with 1,500 tarantulas… packed in cake boxes. And don’t miss the big announcement—Crime Roundup is welcoming a brand-new co-host starting next week.

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Show Notes:

• (0:00) Welcome to a solo edition of Crime Roundup
• (0:45) Sheryl looks back with gratitude on Nancy Grace’s year at the mic
• (3:00) Case 1: 17-year-old Sarah Patrick charged in her parents’ murders
• (5:00) Case 2: 1,500 tarantulas smuggled through Germany—in cake boxes!
• (6:30) From giraffes to Ziplocs: the wild world of animal smuggling and the strange methods behind it
• (7:45) Meet your new co-host: Joshua Schiffer joins Crime Roundup next week

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Nancy Grace is an outspoken, tireless advocate for victims’ rights and one of television's most respected legal analysts. She had a perfect conviction record during her decade as a prosecutor and is the founder and publisher of CrimeOnline.com, a crime-fighting digital platform covering breaking news, missing persons, and cold cases. 

Her daily show, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, airs on SIRIUS XM’s Triumph Channel 111 and is available on all major podcast platforms.

https://www.crimeonline.com/

X: @nancygrace

Instagram: @thenancygrace

Facebook: @nancygrace

Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award–winning CSI, crime scene expert, and writer for CrimeOnline. She’s also co-author of Cold Case: Pathways to Justice and serves as a CSI for a metro Atlanta police department.

Email: [email protected]

X: @ColdCaseTips

Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Detective Vince Velazquez is a retired Atlanta Police Department homicide investigator with more than 20 years of service. He spent 16 of those years in APD’s elite Homicide Unit, where he helped bring closure to hundreds of families. He’s also the real-life inspiration behind the hit true crime series ATL Homicide. Today, Vince is a speaker, mentor, and advocate for justice who continues to teach, investigate, and fight for victims.

Follow Vince Velazquez on Instagram: @vincevelazquez and don’t miss The Murder Mind Show—Vince’s newest true crime series—premiering July 21st at 6:00 PM ET on YouTube.  

👉 Subscribe now: The Murder Mind Show

In this episode of Zone 7, CSI Sheryl McCollum welcomes one of her favorite people on the planet—retired APD Homicide Detective Vince Velazquez. Known for his signature blend of grit, empathy, and straight talk, Vince opens up about what it takes to earn trust on the streets, the lessons from his early jobs (butcher shop included), and the real-life experiences behind ATL Homicide. He and Sheryl dig into long-term cases like the murder of Nacole Smith, the emotional weight of bearing witness to other people’s worst days, and why his new YouTube series The Murder Mind Show is more than just storytelling—it’s a mission. Full of real-life case stories, hard-won wisdom, and no-nonsense truth, this episode is a masterclass in perseverance, purpose, and showing up with heart.

 

Show Notes: 

• (0:00) Welcome to Zone 7 with Vince Velazquez
• (3:30) Respect, effort, and presence—no matter the role
• (8:30) Human connection isn’t optional—it is the job.
• (16:45) Murder Mind: Turning real crime into real change
• (21:00) Nacole Smith’s case: a vow to never let go
• (27:00) What separates a good detective from a great one?
• (29:45 ) “If you want to soar with eagles, don’t hang out with ducks.” 
• (34:45) Empathy, dignity, and the detective's creed
• (37:00) “Criminal investigation is a team concept—everyone has a role to play.” — Sgt. Joe Giacalone (Ret.), NYPD

 

Thanks for listening to another episode! If Zone 7 is part of your weekly routine, show us some love with a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. It helps more folks find the show—and helps us keep telling these stories.

--- 

Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. Sheryl is also the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, a collaboration between universities and colleges that brings researchers, practitioners, students and the criminal justice community together to advance techniques in solving cold cases and assist families and law enforcement with solvability factors for unsolved homicides, missing persons, and kidnapping cases.   

Social Links: 

• Email: [email protected] 

• Twitter: @ColdCaseTips 

• Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum 

• Instagram: @officialzone7podcast 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sean Houle is a former police officer and K9 handler who served in North Carolina for nearly a decade. In 2021, he was critically wounded in the line of duty—shot twice at point-blank range with his own service weapon. Since medically retiring, Sean has become a sought-after speaker on faith, resilience, and the lifelong commitment to service..

In this unforgettable episode of Zone 7, Crime Scene Investigator Sheryl McCollum welcomes retired Officer Sean Houle for a powerful firsthand account of survival and purpose. Sean recounts the harrowing night he was ambushed by a suspect from an earlier call—an encounter that would change his life forever. He shares the moments of chaos, the struggle to stay conscious, and the clarity that surfaced as his life hung in the balance. Together, he and Sheryl discuss the split-second decisions officers face, how department policy shapes those choices, and the unbreakable bond between handler and K9 partner. But Sean’s story doesn’t end on the pavement. During recovery, a surprising moment on a family beach trip reminds him that his calling to serve wasn’t finished—it was just taking a new shape. This episode is a profound look at duty, faith, and the quiet strength behind the badge.

Show Notes: 

• (0:00) Welcome to Zone 7 with guest Sean Houle
• (1:45) The traffic stop that changed everything
• (3:00) Familiar faces and high-risk situations
• (5:00) The slow roll and signs of trouble
• (7:30) Commands ignored, tension escalates
• (8:00) Following policy: use-of-force, K9 deployment, and the art of bluffing
• (14:00) A terminated track and what came next
• (15:30) Face to face again—Sean confronts Quinton Blocker
• (20:00) A fight inside a Toyota Corolla
• (23:00) Disarmed and staring down the barrel
• (25:00) Thoughts of family, faith, and a second chance
• (27:00) The second shot—and the will to survive
• (28:30) “I’m dying, help.”
• (29:15) “72 Units of Blood”: The trauma, stroke, and fight for survival
• (30:15) Jax, the K9 partner, and the heartbreaking malfunction
• (32:00) End of shift: going 10-42 for the last time
• (35:00) A new calling, a life saved in Myrtle Beach
• (40:00) “Next to creating a life, the finest thing a man can do is save one.” – Abraham Lincoln

 

Update on the Case:

In 2024, Quinton Donnell Blocker—the man who shot Officer Sean Houle—was sentenced to 55 to 72 years in prison after being convicted on multiple charges, including attempted murder. The sentencing marked a long-awaited moment of justice for Sean, his family, and his department.

 

Thanks for listening to another episode! If you're enjoying Zone 7, head over to Apple Podcasts and leave a quick rating and review—it’s one of the best ways to support the show and help others find it.

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Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. Sheryl is also the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, a collaboration between universities and colleges that brings researchers, practitioners, students and the criminal justice community together to advance techniques in solving cold cases and assist families and law enforcement with solvability factors for unsolved homicides, missing persons, and kidnapping cases.   

Social Links: 

• Email: [email protected] 

• Twitter: @ColdCaseTips 

• Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum 

• Instagram: @officialzone7podcast 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ray Dawson is a former law enforcement officer and the founder of the Invictus Project, a nonprofit organization supporting task forces investigating online crimes against children by providing funding, training, and technology.

Zachary Neefe is a Special Agent with Homeland Security Investigations and a key member of a multiagency child exploitation task force in North Carolina focused on identifying and arresting child predators.

Learn more at The Invictus Project

Episode Description:

In this episode of Zone 7, CSI Sheryl McCollum speaks with Zachary Neefe and Ray Dawson—two frontline defenders in the fight against child exploitation. They take us inside the creation of the Invictus Task Force, a groundbreaking multiagency collaboration in North Carolina that brings together Homeland Security Investigations, local law enforcement, and nonprofit partners under one roof. Zach and Ray share chilling stories from undercover chat ops, explain why today’s predators are more brazen than ever, and break down how the digital world is a breeding ground for grooming and abuse. They also discuss how victim identification, school outreach, and good old-fashioned police work are changing lives—and why parental awareness isn’t optional anymore.

Show Notes: 

• (0:00) Welcome to Zone 7 with guests Ray Dawson and Zachary Neefe
• (2:00) Building the Invictus Task Force: Collaboration over silos
• (4:00) The “new white van”: Predators in the digital space
• (9:00) COVID’s impact on child exploitation and online abuse
• (11:00) 89.4 million images—what that number really means
• (12:30) Culture shifts and the normalization of exploitation
• (14:30) Identifying victims through school visits and student disclosures
• (17:45) Defining a rescue: Physical extraction vs. intervention
• (23:30) Victim-centered interviews with offenders
• (25:30) Tips for parents navigating kids’ online behavior
• (27:30) “There is no such thing as a part-time predator”
• (30:00) No collateral duties: Proactive vs. reactive law enforcement
• (32:00) Inside the chat rooms: How quickly predators strike
• (34:30) “Let’s stop calling them sex offenders.” — Mike Lew

 

Thanks for listening to another episode!

If you’re liking what you hear, go on and leave us a quick rating and review over on Apple Podcasts. It helps more folks find the show—and keeps us bringing you more stories that matter.

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Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook Cold Case: Pathways to Justice and the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute—a collaboration between universities, students, and professionals working to advance the study and resolution of unsolved cases.   

Social Links: 

• Email: [email protected] 

• Twitter: @ColdCaseTips 

• Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum 

Instagram: @officialzone7podcast

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of Zone 7, CSI Sheryl McCollum brings together a powerhouse panel to unpack the news that Bryan Kohberger has agreed to plead guilty in the murders of Ethan Chapin, Xana Kernodle, Madison Mogen, and Kaylee Goncalves. Retired NYPD Sergeant Joe Giacalone, journalist Susan Hendricks, and defense attorneys Linda Kenney Baden and Kirk Nurmi break down what this plea deal means for investigators, prosecutors, and, most importantly, the families. From the strength of the evidence to the emotional toll of avoiding trial, the panel gets real about trauma, strategy, and the search for justice.

Joseph L. Giacalone is a retired NYPD sergeant, criminal justice educator, and nationally recognized expert in policing and investigations. With over 20 years on the job, he now teaches criminal investigations and appears regularly in the media to weigh in on high-profile cases. He’s also the author of two widely used textbooks. Connect with Joseph at his website and on his podcast True Crime with the Sarge.

Susan Hendricks is an investigative journalist and host of Headline Crime. Known for her fearless reporting, she brings national attention to overlooked cases and failures in the justice system. She regularly covers courtroom developments and advocates for victims. Find Susan on IG @susan_hendricks or X @SusanHendricks.

Linda Kenney Baden is a former prosecutor and veteran defense attorney with decades of experience in high-profile trials, including Phil Spector, Casey Anthony, and Aaron Hernandez. She contributes to Law & Crime and the Huffington Post, and co-hosts legal coverage on Justice Served TV. Connect with  Linda Kenney Baden at her website and on X @KenneyBaden.

Kirk Nurmi is a former criminal defense attorney, author, and speaker focused on justice reform, ethics, and personal transformation. Best known for representing Jodi Arias, he now shares his experience through writing and public speaking. Find him on Instagram @nurmiunchained_ and at kirknurmi.com.

Show Notes: 

• (0:00) Welcome to Zone 7 – Sheryl introduces the panel and the gravity of the plea deal
• (1:00) Joe Giacalone reflects on the investigation and law enforcement response
• (3:45) Susan Hendricks shares how Ethan Chapin’s family is coping with the plea deal
• (8:30) Linda Kenney Baden on defense optics, plea motivations, and the hidden cost of a trial
• (10:30) “He becomes the stalked, not the stalker” – life in prison without protective isolation
• (12:30) Kirk Nurmi opens up about the emotional toll of defending capital cases
• (16:45) What the defense may be trying to keep hidden from public view
• (18:15) Why the lack of answers may make this plea deal harder to accept
• (20:30) Behind the scenes: how mitigation packets influence plea negotiations
• (22:30) The ripple effect: how this case has impacted prosecutors, families, and even journalists
• (25:00) Kohberger’s plea may protect his family—but will he ever tell the truth?
• (27:45) “There is no punishment medieval enough.” – Cheryl on the impossibility of true justice
• (29:30) Seeking justice without a trial: how victim impact statements can still bring power
• (32:45) Confronting evil and searching for answers that may never come
• (34:30) Cheryl closes with a haunting quote from a 2011 note written by Kohberger himself

Thanks for listening to another episode of Zone 7!

If you’re liking what you hear, leave us a quick rating and review on Apple Podcasts. It helps more folks find the show—and keeps us bringing you more stories that matter.

 

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Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award-winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook Cold Case: Pathways to Justice and the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute—a collaboration between universities, students, and professionals working to advance the study and resolution of unsolved cases.   

Social Links: 

• Email: [email protected] 

• Twitter: @ColdCaseTips 

• Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum 

Instagram: @officialzone7podcast

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Chris Enss is a New York Times bestselling author, historian, and private investigator known for her extensive work chronicling the lives of women in the American West. With more than 20 books to her name, she specializes in uncovering the truth behind legends—whether lawmen, gunslingers, or the women often written out of the narrative.

Her latest book, Meet the Kellys: The True Story of Machine Gun Kelly and His Moll Kathryn Thorne, is available now at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, KensingtonBooks.com, and bookstores everywhere.

In this episode of Zone 7, Crime Scene Investigator Sheryl McCollum sits down with bestselling author and private investigator Chris Enss to dig into the real story of Kathryn Thorne—the woman who didn’t just stand beside Machine Gun Kelly but helped build his legend. They discuss Kathryn’s sharp mind, bold choices, how she planned a headline-making kidnapping, and even called J. Edgar Hoover herself. Sheryl and Chris also explore the early days of the FBI, the origin of the term “G-Man,” and how the courtroom became Kathryn’s stage.

Learn more about Chris Enss at chrisenss.com or follow her on Instagram @chrisenssauthor.

 

Show Notes: 

• (0:00) Welcome to Zone 7 with guest Chris Enss
• (1:30) The Kellys vs. Bonnie and Clyde
• (3:00) Ground-level research and historical truth
• (6:05) According to Kate and the untold story of Doc Holliday
• (10:50) Kathryn Thorne was all about what she wanted
• (14:30) Turning Machine Gun Kelly into a myth
• (16:45) Charm, privilege, and the making of an outlaw
• (22:00) The kidnapping of Charles Urschel
• (25:30) Lindbergh Law and the FBI’s rise to power
• (29:30) The double kidnapping and the G-Man legend
• (33:00) Kathryn Thorne plays the victim
• (36:00) Silk in the courtroom and a spotlight on the stand
• (38:30) Getting what she wanted, even as questions remain
• (40:30) “I wish he had left the dog” – Little Steve Stevens

 

Thanks for listening to another episode! If you're enjoying Zone 7, head over to Apple Podcasts and leave a quick rating and review—it’s one of the best ways to support the show and help others find it.

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Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. Sheryl is also the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, a collaboration between universities and colleges that brings researchers, practitioners, students and the criminal justice community together to advance techniques in solving cold cases and assist families and law enforcement with solvability factors for unsolved homicides, missing persons, and kidnapping cases.   

Social Links: 

• Email: [email protected] 

• Twitter: @ColdCaseTips 

• Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum 

Instagram: @officialzone7podcast

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of Zone 7, Crime Scene Investigator, Sheryl McCollum, brings together a powerhouse panel including Susan Hendricks, Joshua Schiffer, Dani after Dark, and Kirk Nurmi to break down the second trial of Karen Read, and it’s more than just a courtroom drama. They unpack how the defense pivoted from conspiracy to collision, why the prosecution’s own reenactment may have backfired, and how key testimony created more questions than answers. The group doesn’t shy away from the messy truth, pointing to public mistrust, missing evidence, and a system that feels off balance. From social media outrage to jury psychology, they explore why this case has gripped the nation and how it might end. 

Guest Bio and Links:

Susan Hendricks is an investigative journalist and host of Headline Crime. Known for her thoughtful and fearless reporting, she brings national attention to overlooked cases and failures in the justice system. Connect with Susan on Instagram @susan_hendricks, on X @susanhendricks, and on Headline Crime.

Joshua Schiffer is a nationally recognized criminal defense attorney and regular Court TV contributor, known for his sharp legal analysis and strategic insight into high-profile cases. Connect with Joshua on Instagram @lawyerschiff and on X @lawyerschiff.

Dani  is a legal content creator and host of Dani After Dark, known for her insightful, accessible analysis of high-profile criminal trials and her growing presence in the true crime community. Connect with Dani on Instagram @dani_after_dark or follow her on YouTube at @DaniAfterDark.

Kirk Nurmi is a former criminal defense attorney, author, and speaker who now shares his expertise on justice, ethics, and personal transformation. Learn more about Kirk on Instagram @nurmiunchained_ and at kirknurmi.com.

Show Notes:

• (0:00) Welcome back to Zone 7 with crime scene investigator, Sheryl McCollum
• (0:30) Sheryl introduces the panel: Susan Hendricks, Joshua Schiffer, Dani after Dark, and Kirk Nurmi
• (1:00) First impressions on closing arguments
• (4:30) How attorney demeanor influences the jury’s mindset
• (6:30) The hoodie, X-rays, and the Commonwealth’s missteps
• (9:30) “I can’t unsee what I saw”
• (11:30) What it’s like at ground zero: the buffer zone and beyond
• (13:00) The power of a clean, simple defense when the state fumbles the case
• (18:00) From guilty at first glance to not so sure
• (20:00) Can you convict without blood, tissue, or a chain of custody?
• (24:00) When justice feels unfinished and no one gets the truth
• (30:00) Finding grace in a divided conversation
• (33:00) Verdict watch: the panel’s predictions
• (34:30) How many times can you try the same person and still call it justice?

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Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook., Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. Sheryl is also the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, a collaboration between universities and colleges that brings researchers, practitioners, students and the criminal justice community together to advance techniques in solving cold cases and assist families and law enforcement with solvability factors for unsolved homicides, missing persons, and kidnapping cases.  

Social Links:

• Email: [email protected]
• Twitter: @ColdCaseTips
• Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum

Instagram: @officialzone7podcast

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today Nancy Grace and Sheryl McCollum get personal, powerful, and just a little bit poetic. From a town mourning its unlikely mascot to Nancy’s candid reflections on personal tragedy, the conversation explores how loss, both individual and shared, shapes the pursuit of justice. They examine the impact of victim-centered storytelling, particularly in the upcoming One Night in Idaho docuseries, and how it reframes our understanding of crime and accountability. Plus, they break down the Dateline leak that’s stirring controversy ahead of the Bryan Kohberger trial. Who leaked it, and why does it matter? The answers may be more complicated than you think.

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Show Notes:

• (0:00) Welcome! Nancy and Sheryl introduce this week’s crime roundup
• (0:30) Morning mayhem and family updates
• (2:00) Flat Creek Floyd: Mourning a town mascot
• (4:30) Keith’s story and the ripple effect of grief
• (6:00) One Night in Idaho: Why victim voices matter
• (10:30) Centering the story on those who lived it
• (11:30) Trial logistics, disruptions, and the emotional cost for families
• (14:40) What Happened to Ellen?: An American Miscarriage of Justice 
• (15:30) Dateline leak causes a stir | Who leaked it, and what’s at stake
• (20:30) Connecting the victims: Sorority photos and Google searches
• (24:00) Was Maddie the real target?
• (26:30) Jury bias, leaks, and legal fallout
• (27:00) Kanye, titanium teeth, and courtroom chaos
• (28:00) Farewell to Flat Creek Floyd

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Nancy Grace is an outspoken, tireless advocate for victims’ rights and one of television's most respected legal analysts. Nancy Grace had a perfect conviction record during her decade as a prosecutor. She is the founder and publisher of CrimeOnline.com, a crime- fighting digital platform that investigates breaking crime news, spreads awareness of missing people and shines a light on cold cases. 

In addition, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a daily show hosted by Grace, airs on SIRIUS XM’s Triumph Channel 111 and is downloadable as a podcast on all audio platforms - https://www.crimeonline.com/

Connect with Nancy: 

X: @nancygrace

Instagram: @thenancygrace

Facebook: @nancygrace

Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook., Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. 

Connect with Sheryl:

Email: [email protected]

X: @ColdCaseTips

Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.