Astrologer, author, and teacher Karen Hawkwood joins host Jenn Zahrt this week! The duo takes parallel tracks to arrive at a conversation filled with books and more, including: the history of Kepler College; living conversations in written form; sly Neptune steering the chat to evade description; the drop going back to the ocean; existential yearning; the true medicine of the sixth house; the beauty and necessity of defenses; and Saturn and Chiron. Plus: mermaid wrangling, paradox, and… is building a Neptunian shelter a good choice or a terrible one??

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Transcripts available upon request.

Song “Wake Up” used with permission by The E-Block Band.

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Episode timestamps (conversation recorded Dec. 2023):

00:31 – Karen, aka KJ Sassypants, graduated from Kepler College in 2004 with a bachelor’s degree in liberal arts after a 4-year curriculum that included astrological history and practice. Then in 2013, she completed Martha Beck’s Life Coach Training program. Today, she combines the depth and insight of psychological astrology with effective coaching tools to help clients. KJ is the author of Surviving 30: Waking Up To Your True Self Through Your Saturn Return. She also runs the Paradox School, a 12-month training program for anyone desiring deeper fluency in understanding how people work.

04:40 – KJ first encountered astrology in middle school when her best friend’s mom interpreted her chart! She later found Alan Oken’s red-and-gold covered As Above, So Below in a Boulder, CO bookstore. (Extra pod points awarded here, because Jenn and KJ shared the same first astrology text – although Jenn’s had the black, white, and purple cover!)

08:39 – If KJ were stranded on a desert island, which books would she take? It’s all about Liz Greene for Ms. Sassypants! Her first selection is Liz’s The Horoscope in Manifestation: Psychology and Prediction, because Liz has an amazing way of teaching the intersection of depth psychology and archetypal astrology.

13:04 – Interlude: Join CAELi  and snag yourself a Saturn stress-relief ball. (Yes, you read that right!)

13:51 – KJ’s second choice is Liz’s brilliant tome The Astrological Neptune and the Quest for Redemption. Neptune is strong in KJ’s chart, and when she reads this book, she feels seen!

24:00 – KJ’s third selection is Liz’s Barriers and Boundaries: The Horoscope and the Defences of the Personality. How can our pain shape us? This cloth-covered, hidden gem unfolds the defensive structures that the human psyche puts in place to protect itself.

29:19 – Liz just released her first book in 20 years, so hop on the book bus as Jenn and KJ discuss Chiron in Love: The Astrology of Envy, Rage, Compassion and Wisdom.

30:31 – KJ’s recommendations for beginners? She once trained with Steven Forrest, so The Inner Sky gets a vote. But her main rec is Liz Greene’s Relating: An Astrological Guide to Living With Others on a Small Planet. This accessible book introduces the collective unconscious and the idea of projection. One caveat that KJ always shares, however, is that because this text was published in the 1970s, it feels a bit dated with its heteronormative and gender-binary language. It’s a rare book to find, though! (Hint: CAELi has a copy – one more perk of becoming a member!)

34:55 – Find KJ at her website, http://www.karenhawkwood.com/, where you can learn more about her and the Paradox School. Also, join her on Facebook: @kjsassypants.

35:32 – Thanks for listening to Within Orb! If you love the show, please help support it at no cost to you: Follow or subscribe wherever you listen, rate it five stars, or write a happy review! And if you’d like to become a CAELi member or support our work with a contribution of any amount, we’d be delighted – thanks!

Show notes by Jen Braun, JJ Boots Productions LLC.