On this episode, Marc talks with Liz Pelly, author of “Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Cost of the Perfect Playlist,” published on January 7, 2025. by One Signal. It’s a deeply reported expose of the streaming service Spotify and how their decisions and manipulations have changed music both for artists and for listeners. Liz has been reporting on Spotify for almost a decade and her many published articles on the subject led her to this fascinating book, which will hopefully change the way people think about streaming and what it’s done to music.

As she writes, “In my writing and reporting, I’ve been driven toward a deep impulse toward demystification–toward shedding light on the inner workings of streaming companies and debunking the myths they perpetuate. Sometimes it feels more complicated and convoluted than I could ever have imagined. Other times it just all feels like music industry business as usual. The truth is somewhere in the middle: the story of streaming is as much about what’s changed as what’s stayed the same.”

We hope you enjoy Marc's conversation with Liz Pelly!