On this episode, Marc talks with Ronen Givony, author of "Us v. Them: The Age of Indie Music and a Decade in New York (2004-2014)," published in March of 2026. It's a fascinating history of the indie and underground music scene in Brooklyn during a time when Givony ran the Wordless Music concert series, worked for Nonesuch records, and pursued many other music-related activities. Givony divides the book into chapters on individual bands, curators, venues, and publications that had a huge effect on music in New York – groups such as Oneida, Parts and Labor, Weyes Blood, and Vagabon, and spaces such as Glasslands, Silent Bard, and Death by Audio.

As he writes, "This is a book about a dozen or so individuals and bands with a curious claim to fame. A few of them achieved a degree of renown; a few would nearly make it big, only to self-destruct; as of this writing, though, none is a household name. Yet what they did was more decisive for the culture of New York than billionaire philanthropists whose names were carved in concert halls, more enduring than bands with fifty times their sales."

You can buy "Us v. Them" here.

We hope you enjoy Marc's chat with Ronen Givony!