Dr David Russell joins me on the podcast this week. David recently wrote an essay centered around James Hillman’s 1979 book: The Dream & the Underworld. I’ve posted it with David’s permission on the Abaton Blog here.

We discuss ideas about the nature of dreams as David argues for allowing dreams to be lifeforms unto themselves - perfect within their own context - and not to be simply mined for the betterment of the upper-world.

To begin the episode, David opens up about his own story. After a decade in a Catholic monastery, studying theology in Europe, he was drawn to question the literal interpretations of the scriptures. This led to an opening to the mythic realm and on a winding path out of organised religion into Psychology; eventually becoming President of the NSW Jung Society.

We then chat about Robert Johnson’s visits to Sydney and the impact that his presence had on David in the '80s and '90s; the revelation of seeing Johnson standing on stage telling stories for hours at a time as a way to engage the psyche of the room. And then how the Mythopoetic Men’s Movement of Hillman, Michael Meade and Robert Bly further informed his path towards poetry and myth as an access point to wisdom.

The conversation then moves to the mythic: the Sumerian myth of Inanna as well as Hercules' 12th task, both enduring a journey to the Underworld and back. Each, by learning the customs and rules of the Underworld, are able to bring back with them a particular gift - specific to their Age - to share with the world above.

Dr. David Russell has a psychotherapy/psychology practice in Darlinghurst (Sydney CBD). In his therapeutic work his intention is to attend to the experiential nature of desire and compulsion as experienced in everyday life. David is a past president of the Sydney Jung Society and past Associate Professor in the School of Psychology at Western Sydney University.

During the episode I mention Madness Radio which can be found here.

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