Sam Elias has proven himself one of the most versatile climbers in the world, climbing everything from Everest to 5.14d, M13, WI6 and winning the Ouray Ice Competition. The water runs deeper than the physical and Sam's art covers a range from tattoos to wood block prints to t-shirts ... and pottery. He is thinker with broad sensitivity and the language to share that. In this epic (3hrs 20min) conversation we cover all sorts of things from ski racing to climbing to COVID to racism and the theme of empathy that ties these topics together in the spirit of a very complex individual.