Jordan Cannon is a professional climber, known for his free and speed-climbing feats on El Capitan. Mark Hudon is one of the fathers of big-wall free climbing, best known for making a very early and audacious free attempt of the Salathé Wall in 1979 with Max Jones, nearly a decade before El Cap was officially first free climbed by Todd Skinner and Paul Piana. Jordan and Mark's partnership is legendary, best encapsulated in the film "Free As Can Be," which documents Jordan's ascent of Freerider in a day and Mark's attempt to finally complete a free ascent of El Capitan by the same route, more than four decades later. 

On today's episode, we make podcasting history by recording our episode live from halfway up the side of El Capitan, as Jordan attempts to free the Salathé Wall via the rarely repeated, and arguably official crux pitch—the infamous pitch 19—with Mark supporting him on belay. 

This is a two-part episode. To hear the second half of our conversation, you'll need to join us at Patreon.com

But first, your over-stoker podcast hosts run into the latest climbing headlines and cover the biggest downgrades to the most impressive ascents, while wondering whether it's all just one big Tommy Caldwell sandbag.

Today's final bit features the return of the Seattle post punk power trio rock band Dragontail Peak, with the song Three Rules--as in three rules of big-wall climbing.

Show Notes

Mandatory listening:

"Bonus: The Free Salathé Wall’s Strange Revisionist History" 

"Bonus: Pitch 19, Part Deux"

Enormocast: Episode 152: Mark Hudon and Max Jones – As Free as Can Be.

Follow Jordan Cannon on Instagram

Follow Mark Hudon on Instagram

Mark Hudon website

Bill Ramsey, 64, does Wrongdoer (8b+)

Tommy Caldwell, 46, does Empath 9a (+) calling it 8c

From V16 to Big Walls: Pietro Vidi Makes the Second Ascent of ‘Lurking Fear’

UNCUT: "No one Mourns The Wicked" - V17/9A - Hamish McArthur

Follow DragonTail Peak on Instagram

DragonTail Peak on Bandcamp

Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast

Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. [email protected] // [email protected]

Sonnie Trotter is a professional climber from Canada, whose notable ascents include the first ascent of Cobra Crack in Squamish, The Shining on Mount Louis, and the Pineapple Express on El Capitan. His new book is called UPLIFTED: The Evolution of a Climbing Life.

But first, is it aid? One of climbing's most perennial questions comes up in a way that leaves your hosts breathless. 

Our final bit is "Yamashiro" by Recorduroy, a fusion band based in Colorado, with climber Dave Cohen on drums. 

Show Notes

"UPLIFTED: The Evolution of a Climbing Life" from Patagonia Books

Read "Manboy" an excerpt from Sonnie's new book on Evening Sends

Follow Sonnie Trotter on Instagram

Listen to Yamashiro on Spotify and Apple Music

Recorduroy on Spotify and Apple Music

Follow Recorduroy on Instagram

Why an Inhaler Sparked a Personal Style Debate on ‘Life of Villains’

Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. [email protected] // [email protected]

Briana Mazzolini-Blanchard is the executive director of Urban Native Collective, the host of the Life on the Margins: An Urban Native Experience podcast, the co-founder of the Indigenous Field Guide, and a collaborator with the American Climbing Project. She recently stepped down from the Red River Gorge Climbing Coalition Board of Directors over their decision to discontinue their community programming: Climb L8, an initiative integral to their efforts to remove systemic and financial barriers to entry into rock climbing.

But first, your very influential podcast hosts discuss the latest list of top climbing influencers, talk about what we want to see on social media, and give our draft picks for our top follows.

Our final bit is Boulder-based climber Kyle Ward's band Dry Mouth, back with more.

Show Notes

Follow Briana Mazzolini-Blanchard on Instagram

Urban Native Collective

Urban Native Collective on Instagram

Life on the Margins Podcast

Life on the Margins Podcast on Instagram

American Climbing Project on Instagram

American Climbing Project on Patreon

Climb L8 - web archive

Follow Kyle Ward on Instagram

Follow Dry Mouth on Instagram

Dry Mouth - Soundcloud

Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast

Mark Synnott is a professional big-wall climber, expedition sailor, and writer whose books have included The Third Pole and The Impossible Climb. His latest book is Into The Ice, an epic read about his recent voyage across the infamous Northwest Passage and the historical mysteries that lie within. The 6,736-mile journey takes 112 days, allowing Mark to give us his most personal memoir yet while weaving in the historical details of British explorer Sir John Franklin and the 128 men he led on an ill-fated expedition in the mid-19th century.

But first, we gush over some cool climbing news: Brooke Raboutou becomes the first woman to reach 5.15c, and Connor Herson makes a quick tick of one of the hardest crack climbs in the desert: Mason Earle's Stranger Than Fiction

Our final bit is a throwback to a moment in time when the Black Nugget in Carbondale was the place to be, and Sector 7G found a groove that sent the cowboys and hippies spiraling.

Show Notes

Follow Mark Synnott on Instagram and check out his homepage

"Into the Ice" from Penguin Random House

All books by Mark Synnott

Northwest Passage - Wikipedia

Northwest Passage - AP

The RunOut #60 - Mark Synnott and Everest

News: Brooke Raboutou Climbs 5.15c

Follow Brooke | Her send post

News: Connor Herson Climbs Stranger Than Fiction (5.14b)

Follow Connor | His send post

Mason Earle's tapped foot

Earlier this year, the Bears Ears Resource Management Plan dropped, outlining rules regarding camping, waste management, dogs, and, perhaps most controversially, fixed anchors for new routes across the monument, which includes, of course, Indian Creek. Jason Keith is a senior policy advisor at the Access Fund who has spent his career navigating the legal and relational fog of securing access for climbers across the country. He was deeply involved in the development of this plan and talks to us today about what it means for climbers today—and everyone going forward amid the uncertainty and chaos of the current administration. 

But first, we talk about favorite mountain on earth, Everest, and why it's a such a slippery slope. Drones are coming for Sherpa jobs, but our hot take on this development might surprise you. 

Our Final Bit is the Golden Shoals, a fiddle and guitar duo featuring Mark Kilianski and rock climber Amy Alvey. Check out the Show Notes for tour dates, website, and more!

Show Notes

New Rules at Indian Creek Are Now in Effect. Here’s What You Need to Know.

Bears Ears Resource Management Plan

Access Fund

Drones Will Do Some Schlepping for Sherpas on Mount Everest

Golden Shoals

Follow Golden Shoals and Amy Alvey on Instagram

Golden Shoals tour dates.

Get Bonus Episodes! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast

Hannah Schubert is an Austrian climber who has podiumed at the World Cup and the World Championships. Now retired from professional competition, Hannah was recently profiled in Der Spiegel, one of Germanys' largest publications, where she opened up about her struggles with eating disorders during the height of her competitive career.

Our conversation traces Hannah's career, from climbing alongside her brother Jakob, to the hyper competitive world of Austrian climbing, and what it meant to stand on a World Cup podium. We look at how eating disorders can spread through taking silent cues, comparing yourself to others, and the comments made by coaches. We talk about how easy eating disorders are to hide from others, making it hard to talk about and address. And we hear about the ultimate breaking point for Hannah, and her years long recovery back to mental and physical health.

But first, Chris has a confession to make to Andrew ... and needless to say, Andrew is NOT happy about it.

Our final bit is some classic Winona shit.

Show Notes 

Follow Hannah Schubert on Instagram

Profile in Der Spiegel

Guest Blog by Hannah Schubert: Why I Think Vulnerability Matters

Young Women with Anorexia Nervosa Speak Out about Hospital Experiences

Michigan Ice Festival

Winona Ice Festival

Matthew Drazkowski rant

Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more! Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast

The Protect America's Rock Climbing Act was signed into law at the end of President Biden's term. The PARC Act mandates that various government departments issue guideance recognizing rock climbing as a legitimate use of public lands, including the placement and maintenance of fixed anchors in Wilderness. This historic act was the result of a multi-year campaign spearheaded by the Access Fund. Our guests today are Access Fund executive director Heather Thorne and deputy director Erik Murdock. This interview was recorded on January 28th, before the news of DOGE's cuts to many positions, including at our national parks. To check out the Access Fund's position on the DOGE cuts, see the linked article in our Show Notes.

But first, we tee up our conversation with the Access Fund by talking about this recent news, including the upside-down American flag that was hung from the top of El Capitan last week by Yosemite's recently dismissed locksmith and others.

Our final bit is from a climber at heart, Madi Rindge, aka, Madi Bisharat, my cousin and a brilliant musician whose music I'm honored and excited to share. Check out the show notes for links to her albums, including this song Alien, as well as a GoFundMe to support her father who lost his house in the Palisades fire this year.

Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast

Show Notes

VICTORY! Congress Passes Protecting America's Rock Climbing Act -- Access Fund

A New Era for Climbing: PARC Act’s Impact and the Path Forward -- Access Fund

Tell Lawmakers How Firing Public Lands Employees Impacts You -- Access Fund

Donate to the Access Fund

How the Yosemite Climbing Community Is Reacting to DOGE Layoffs -- Climbing.com

Protesters Display Upside-Down American Flag at Yosemite -- NYT

Cat rescue

Follow Madi Rindge on Instagram

Listen to Running Out of Oxygen on Spotify

Order Running out of Oxygen from Madi.

GoFundMe for Charlie Bisharat's home that was lost in the Palisades fire

Jason Kehl is a hold shaper, iconclast, and highball bouldering legend, perhaps best known for his first ascent of Evilution in the Buttermilks. Today, he lives in El Paso, Texas, where he continues to establish first ascents all over Hueco Tanks. He is also continue to work with So Ill to create climbing holds. Our conversation traces the evolution of bouldering as a sport for misfits and outcasts to the conformist scene of today.

But first, we respond to the tragic news of an ice-climbing death by asking some tough and perhaps irreconcilable questions about being a new climber, in which ambition can exceed experience, and how social media dynamics can make all of this worse.

Last, a little amuse bouche of one of our favorite climbing songwriters, Chris Parker, who'll be joining us on stage in Boulder for our upcoming LIVE event on February 20.

Show Notes

Follow Jason Kehl on Instagram

Jason Kehl’s World of Illusions - Episode 8 - Hueco's Web

Hueco Rehab - “Real Climbing Episode 5"

Check out the Connect Board from So Ill

Check out the latest holds from So Ill 

Ice Climber Dies in the Canadian Rockies -- Gripped

Ryan Devlin is an actor who has appeared in such shows as Brothers and Sisters, Cougar Town, and Grey's Anatomy. Climbers, however, will know him as the host of one of our favorite climbing podcasts, The Struggle Climbing Show. In this episode, we catch up with Ryan after he redpointed his hardest rock climb to date at the Red River Gorge, and hear about what it was like to share that redpoint journey with his audience.

But first, pass the xenon gas and strap in the nitro, it's time to climb Everest, baby!

Our final bit is a blast from the early aughts, with climber Nick Smith in the Half Jeffersons.

Show Notes

Follow Ryan Devlin and The Struggle Climbing Show on Instagram

The Struggle Climbing Show

You Can Now Climb Everest in a Week Using Xenon Gas: The Implications -- Explorer's Web

Everest in a Week: Lukas Furtenbach Enters the Xenon Debate -- Explorer's Web

The Half Jeffersons - The Fire on YouTube

Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast

Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. [email protected] // [email protected]

Though just 21, Chris Deuto has already amassed an impressive lifetime of climbing since first starting the sport at age 7. Having ticked 5.14c and V14 and done national-level competitions, Chris has shifted his focus to more alpine-centered climbs, from Aconcagua to Fitz Roy. Most recently, he made the first free rope-solo winter ascent of the Diamond face of Long's Peak in his home state of Colorado. Chris has consciously brought his process-centered approach to the forefront of his climbing, seeking richer experiences rather than just focusing on grades.

But first, your second favorite conspiracy-addled climbing podcasters discuss the curious appearance of "bolts" (big scare quotes) beneath a petroglyph in northeastern Utah. Where did these so-called "bolts" come from, and why, exactly, are climbers to blame? The mystery deepens...

Last but never least, our final bit features the return of a Bend-based musical duo Billy and Box Kid, with their new track, Without the Frills.

Show Notes

Follow Chris Deuto

Chris Deuto profile on Climbing.com

Chris Deuto profile on the Daily Camera

Petroglphy "churnalism" on CBS, KUTV, NYPost, Artnet, Gear Junkie.

Wilderness Watch's hostility toward the PARCA bill

RunOut #101: Will Congress Let Climbers Bolt in Wilderness?

Read: Breaking the Wilderness Bell Jar and There is Just Climbing on Evening Sends

Billy and the Box Kid website

Follow Billy and the Box Kid on Instagram

Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast

Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. [email protected] // [email protected]