The Protect America's Rock Climbing Act was signed into law at the end of President Biden's term. The PARC Act mandates that various government departments issue guideance recognizing rock climbing as a legitimate use of public lands, including the placement and maintenance of fixed anchors in Wilderness. This historic act was the result of a multi-year campaign spearheaded by the Access Fund. Our guests today are Access Fund executive director Heather Thorne and deputy director Erik Murdock. This interview was recorded on January 28th, before the news of DOGE's cuts to many positions, including at our national parks. To check out the Access Fund's position on the DOGE cuts, see the linked article in our Show Notes.

But first, we tee up our conversation with the Access Fund by talking about this recent news, including the upside-down American flag that was hung from the top of El Capitan last week by Yosemite's recently dismissed locksmith and others.

Our final bit is from a climber at heart, Madi Rindge, aka, Madi Bisharat, my cousin and a brilliant musician whose music I'm honored and excited to share. Check out the show notes for links to her albums, including this song Alien, as well as a GoFundMe to support her father who lost his house in the Palisades fire this year.

Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast

Show Notes

VICTORY! Congress Passes Protecting America's Rock Climbing Act -- Access Fund

A New Era for Climbing: PARC Act’s Impact and the Path Forward -- Access Fund

Tell Lawmakers How Firing Public Lands Employees Impacts You -- Access Fund

Donate to the Access Fund

How the Yosemite Climbing Community Is Reacting to DOGE Layoffs -- Climbing.com

Protesters Display Upside-Down American Flag at Yosemite -- NYT

Cat rescue

Follow Madi Rindge on Instagram

Listen to Running Out of Oxygen on Spotify

Order Running out of Oxygen from Madi.

GoFundMe for Charlie Bisharat's home that was lost in the Palisades fire

Jason Kehl is a hold shaper, iconclast, and highball bouldering legend, perhaps best known for his first ascent of Evilution in the Buttermilks. Today, he lives in El Paso, Texas, where he continues to establish first ascents all over Hueco Tanks. He is also continue to work with So Ill to create climbing holds. Our conversation traces the evolution of bouldering as a sport for misfits and outcasts to the conformist scene of today.

But first, we respond to the tragic news of an ice-climbing death by asking some tough and perhaps irreconcilable questions about being a new climber, in which ambition can exceed experience, and how social media dynamics can make all of this worse.

Last, a little amuse bouche of one of our favorite climbing songwriters, Chris Parker, who'll be joining us on stage in Boulder for our upcoming LIVE event on February 20.

Show Notes

Follow Jason Kehl on Instagram

Jason Kehl’s World of Illusions - Episode 8 - Hueco's Web

Hueco Rehab - “Real Climbing Episode 5"

Check out the Connect Board from So Ill

Check out the latest holds from So Ill 

Ice Climber Dies in the Canadian Rockies -- Gripped

Ryan Devlin is an actor who has appeared in such shows as Brothers and Sisters, Cougar Town, and Grey's Anatomy. Climbers, however, will know him as the host of one of our favorite climbing podcasts, The Struggle Climbing Show. In this episode, we catch up with Ryan after he redpointed his hardest rock climb to date at the Red River Gorge, and hear about what it was like to share that redpoint journey with his audience.

But first, pass the xenon gas and strap in the nitro, it's time to climb Everest, baby!

Our final bit is a blast from the early aughts, with climber Nick Smith in the Half Jeffersons.

Show Notes

Follow Ryan Devlin and The Struggle Climbing Show on Instagram

The Struggle Climbing Show

You Can Now Climb Everest in a Week Using Xenon Gas: The Implications -- Explorer's Web

Everest in a Week: Lukas Furtenbach Enters the Xenon Debate -- Explorer's Web

The Half Jeffersons - The Fire on YouTube

Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast

Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. [email protected] // [email protected]

Though just 21, Chris Deuto has already amassed an impressive lifetime of climbing since first starting the sport at age 7. Having ticked 5.14c and V14 and done national-level competitions, Chris has shifted his focus to more alpine-centered climbs, from Aconcagua to Fitz Roy. Most recently, he made the first free rope-solo winter ascent of the Diamond face of Long's Peak in his home state of Colorado. Chris has consciously brought his process-centered approach to the forefront of his climbing, seeking richer experiences rather than just focusing on grades.

But first, your second favorite conspiracy-addled climbing podcasters discuss the curious appearance of "bolts" (big scare quotes) beneath a petroglyph in northeastern Utah. Where did these so-called "bolts" come from, and why, exactly, are climbers to blame? The mystery deepens...

Last but never least, our final bit features the return of a Bend-based musical duo Billy and Box Kid, with their new track, Without the Frills.

Show Notes

Follow Chris Deuto

Chris Deuto profile on Climbing.com

Chris Deuto profile on the Daily Camera

Petroglphy "churnalism" on CBS, KUTV, NYPost, Artnet, Gear Junkie.

Wilderness Watch's hostility toward the PARCA bill

RunOut #101: Will Congress Let Climbers Bolt in Wilderness?

Read: Breaking the Wilderness Bell Jar and There is Just Climbing on Evening Sends

Billy and the Box Kid website

Follow Billy and the Box Kid on Instagram

Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast

Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. [email protected] // [email protected]

Fred Nicole's name is synonymous with hard bouldering. The dude is legend, responsible for establishing the world's first V14 and first V15, always while bringing an artistic, quiet approach that has defined the soul of bouldering for over four decades. Today Fred works as a shoe designer for So Ill, and continues to explore the forests of his native Switzerland—among other areas around the world—for new boulders that capture his imagination.

But first, Chris shares some stories about an escape to what's arguably the best rock in the country, the New River Gorge. 

Our Final Bit is from none other than Margo Hayes, the first woman to climb 5.15. This song is called Jaded and it’s off her new album Notes to You.

Show Notes

Follow Fred Nicole on Instagram

Fred Nicole interview with UP Climbing

Dreamtime on Youtube

Follow Margo Hayes on Instagram

Listen to Notes to You wherever you get your music

Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast

Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. [email protected] // [email protected]

Today’s guest is climbing's Captain America, Tommy Cadlwell. Tommy’s latest film is called The Devil’s Climb, and it documents an epic adventure in which he and Alex Honnold rode their bike’s to Alaska and enchained all the summits on the striking and infamous Devil’s Thumb massif. The film was pitched as an environmental film, but the directors decided that global warming was less interesting than Tommy and Alex's bromance.  We catch up with one of the world's greatest climbers of all time and hear about making this film, and all the other things in life.

But first, we open up the official record book of climbing, and discuss the recent news of Michaela Kirsh becoming the first woman to do a V15 and 5.15a, Babsi Zangerl’s flash of Freerider, and other achievements. 

For our final bit, we're pleased to share the heady music of longtime climber Dave Pomeranz's band, Whale Fall, with their track Chronophobia.

Show Notes

Watch the trailer for The Devil's Climb and stream the whole film on Disney+.

Sign up for Tommy Caldwell's newsletter Routefinding at Patagonia

Michaela Kiersch becomes first woman to send 5.15 and V15

Setting and Revising the Record on Evening Sends

Whale Fall on Bandcamp and Spotify

Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast

Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. [email protected] // [email protected]

Today we’re honored to be speaking with Jerry Moffatt. Jerry was one of the most influential and best climbers in the 1980s and ‘90s, whose groundbreaking first ascents pushed the limits and also was incredibly influential on the direction of our sport. His autobiography Revelations is one of the best climbing books ever, and a must read for everyone who listens to this show.

But first, we break down the news of the closures at Mt. Arapiles in Australia. Mt. Arapiles is arguably Australia’s best, most historic crag, and is widely considered to have some of the finest stone of any crag on earth. Now, nearly half of that climbing is being shut down. But why? It’s a complicated question, involving special interests and the government’s unwillingness to rein them in, alongside a general animosity toward climbers.

Last, our final bit is from Seattle based Mamas New Cult featuring Zoey Huynh.

Show Notes

Buy Jerry Moffatt’s book “Revelations”

Visit SaveGrampians.org

Sign this open letter

Change.org Petition

Donate to the Climb Victoria Advocacy Fund

Tattoo Artist Zoey Huynh

Mamas New Cult on Spotify

Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. [email protected] // [email protected]

Armando Menocal was a civil rights lawyer and climber who helped found the Access Fund. It’s safe to say that without Armando’s silent but hugely significant contributions, climbing would look very different today. Sadly, Armando recently died at the age of 83 from cancer. Here today to help memorialize Armando is Armando’s friend and colleague Brady Robinson. Brady is the former Executive Director of the Access Fund. He is a veteran of numerous expeditions, with first ascents in Pakistan, Patagonia, and Peru. Today he works as the director of philanthropy at the Freja Foundation and is working on conservation projects in South America.

But first, your hosts listen to another climbing podcast, get redpilled, freak out, and launch into a conspiracy of our own about Jimmy Chin and Sandy Irvine. Something’s afoot on Everest …

For today’s final bit, climber / musician Jessica Roki Kilroy is back with Right Here Remix. Roki is a climber and musician from Montana, whose experimental, brooding, emotional folk music incorporates the sounds of the natural world, including those that she captured while on El Cap.

Show Notes

“Remembering Armando Menocal” on Climbing

Cuba Climbing

Armando Fund on Access Fund

Freyja Foundation

The Nugget’s Instagram

Remains of Andrew 'Sandy' Irvine believed to have been found on Everest

Rokifolk.com

Follow Jessica Roki Kilroy on Instagram

Jessica Roki Kilroy Bandcamp

Jessica Roki Kilroy on Spotify

Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. [email protected] // [email protected]

Last year, Becca Steinbrecher broke a foothold while climbing in the Black Canyon of the Gunnison and took a 30-foot fall onto a ledge. It was only a couple of months later that Becca woke up and learned what had happened to her that day, including the heroic and miraculous search and rescue operation that navigated a thorny web of very tough decisions in order to get her out of the Black Canyon and to a hospital. Becca recounts the events of that fateful as they were told to her, and shares what her experience has been like living with a traumatic brain injury, and ultimately returning back to the sport she loves.

But first, some lighter fare as your curmudgeonly podcast hosts go back for round two of ‘Mudgeon Mania. We roll up our sociologist sleeves and build a taxonomy of different curmudgeons in the climbing world, including: the Hermudgeon, the Newmudgeon, and the Sportmudgeon (all now TM properties of The RunOut podcast but available for a Creative Commons license as long as you support our podcast on Patreon.)

Today’s final bit is from Moab-based rock climber Sam Newman, who created spooky, silly climbing-themed spoof of Edgar Allen Poe’s seminal poem, The Raven.

Show Notes

Climbing.com: Major Accident and Dramatic Rescue in the Black Canyon of the Gunnison

YouTube: The Great White Wall: Black Canyon of the Gunnison

Friends of the Black Canyon Search and Rescue Team

Love Your Brain

SOAR

Adaptive Adventures

High Fives Foundation

Craig Hospital

Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. [email protected] // [email protected]

Fitz Cahall is the founder of the Dirtbag Diaries, a podcast that’s been downloaded over 18 million times. His new book is “States of Adventure: 30 outdoor adventure stories about finding yourself by getting lost.”

But first, childless cat ladies may be a topic for some politicians, but we look at the childless climbers bringing their cats to the crags. Suffice to say, crag dogs are not happy, but at least we have figured out what animal is the best crag companion of all.

Today’s final bit comes from Dan Cauthorn’s Seattle-based band Dragontail Peak. Dan climbed Cerro Torre in 1992, which was a major influence on his life, including the inspiration for this song, also called Cerro Torre. Check out Dragontail Peak — links are in Show Notes.

Show Notes

“States of Adventure: 30 outdoor adventure stories about finding yourself by getting lost”

Follow Fitz Cahall on social media

Listen to The Dirtbag Diaries

Dragontail Peak: Bandcamp // Facebook

Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. [email protected] // [email protected]