Have you ever felt the tension of leading others… while still serving someone over you?

In Episode 198 of the Fly on the Wall Podcast, I sit down with my good friend Pastor Joe for a powerful coaching conversation on the tension between the first chair and second chair—and how to build a team culture that balances care and candor.

Because healthy teams don’t just feel supportive… they also tell the truth.

In this episode, we talk through:

• Why every healthy team must balance care + candor
• What happens when you have care without candor (dysfunction)
• What happens when you have candor without care (distance)
• How to have hard conversations without being harsh
• A practical approach to candor that lowers defensiveness and restores alignment
• How to lead up and lead down at the same time
• Why second-chair leaders often carry first-chair responsibility—and the tension that creates
• How to create a culture where your team feels safe to share ideas (best idea wins)
• The difference between compliance and true alignment

If you’re leading in any capacity—lead pastor, associate pastor, staff leader, or key volunteer—this conversation will help you build stronger relationships, a healthier culture, and a better team.

🎧 Listen to Episode 198 now and sit in on this coaching session.

And don’t forget to check out churchboom.org for coaching, Church Boom Network, Church Boom University, and resources designed to help you grow and lead with confidence.

Cheering you on,
Chris Sonksen
CEO & Founder, Church Boom
Host, Fly on the Wall Podcast

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👋 About Us
Fly on the Wall Podcast, presented by Church Boom, takes pastors into a live coaching session with Chris Sonksen, CEO & Founder of Church Boom. Each episode features a pastor, just like you, as they share the challenges they face and get practical advice on how to overcome them.