Episode 230 of Fly on the Wall is here.

When your church feels stuck, how do you know what’s actually causing it?

Is it a church problem? A strategy problem? Or could the real issue be leadership?

In this episode, I sit down with Dave Amsden to talk about how to identify the real problems holding a church back and what leaders should be paying attention to when growth stalls.

One distinction can change the way you diagnose what’s happening:

Church problems often show up in behavior. Strategy problems show up in data.

When you know what to look for, you can stop guessing and start addressing the actual issue. We talk about evaluating everything from first-time guests and volunteer engagement to leadership development, generosity, and the pathway from the community to the crowd to the core.

We also get personal about leadership. Are you someone high-level leaders want to follow? Can you build something from nothing? Develop other leaders? Handle conflict? Do you have the relational and emotional intelligence necessary to lead at the next level?

Here’s some of what we unpack:

• How to distinguish a church problem from a strategy or pastor problem
• Why blind spots require outside voices
• What has changed about effective church leadership over the last 10–15 years
• Why people increasingly want to belong before they believe
• The importance of getting the right people around the table
• Why pastors can overestimate the leaders on their team
• What churches should measure instead of obsessing over attendance

That last one is huge.

Too many pastors measure the result instead of the activity. Rather than allowing weekly attendance to determine how you feel about the health of your church, start measuring the things that actually produce healthy growth: leadership development, new volunteers, and speed of engagement.

Focus on the right things, not just the busy things.

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👋 About Us
Fly on the Wall Podcast, presented by Church Boom, takes pastors into a live coaching session with Chris Sonksen, CEO & Founder of Church Boom. Each episode features a pastor, just like you, as they share the challenges they face and get practical advice on how to overcome them.

Every pastor will eventually face transition.

But when you’ve spent decades building a church, developing its culture, earning the trust of your people, and carrying the vision, handing leadership to someone else is about far more than changing a title.

In this episode, I sit down with Pastor Tyrone, who is preparing for a five-year transition after 33 years of leading the church he founded. We talk through how to gradually transfer authority, build trust in a successor, and prepare both the incoming and outgoing leader for what’s ahead. 

One of the most important principles we unpack is this:

Responsibility should precede title.

A healthy transition doesn’t happen overnight. The successor needs opportunities to lead initiatives, make strategic decisions, carry increasing authority, and eventually function as the lead pastor before officially receiving the title. 

We also talk about how trust gets transferred from one leader to another. You can assign responsibility, but you can’t assign trust. Your people need to see you publicly affirm your successor, defer to them in important moments, and celebrate their wins. 

Here’s some of what we unpack:

•  Why every transition involves some level of loss 
•  How transition can impact a pastor’s identity 
•  When a successor should begin carrying real authority 
•  Why authority and responsibility have to increase together 
•  How to transfer the congregation’s trust to the next leader 
•  Five qualities to evaluate before deciding a successor is truly ready 
•  Why the ability to handle criticism, pressure, and difficult decisions matters 
•  How to lead with both courage and compassion 

If you’re preparing for a leadership transition now, or simply want to make sure your church is ready when that day comes, this is a conversation worth hearing.

Because you don’t outlive your problems. You outgrow them. 

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👋 About Us
Fly on the Wall Podcast, presented by Church Boom, takes pastors into a live coaching session with Chris Sonksen, CEO & Founder of Church Boom. Each episode features a pastor, just like you, as they share the challenges they face and get practical advice on how to overcome them.

Most churches think attendance is the goal.

But what if attendance is actually the result of something else?

In Episode 228 of Fly on the Wall, I sat down with my friend Bobby from Missouri to talk about practical church growth strategies and how getting more people engaged can create sustainable growth.

Bobby's church has experienced an incredible turnaround, growing from around 20 people to a couple hundred. But with that growth comes a new challenge:

How do you move new people from simply attending to actually becoming part of the church?

I believe one of the biggest mistakes churches make is treating attendance as the lead goal.

It's not.

Engagement is the lead goal. Attendance is the lag goal.

When people begin serving, they build relationships. They experience discipleship. They develop a sense of ownership. And ultimately, they become more connected to the life and mission of the church.

We also talked about something every church needs to take seriously: invite culture.

Culture isn't changed by preaching about something once. It's built through the stories you tell, the heroes you make, and the things you celebrate.

Here's some of what we unpack:

• Why engagement should be a primary goal for growing churches
• How to create a clear pathway from attendance to involvement
• Why longtime volunteers can struggle to make room for new people
• How 90-day engagement goals can create momentum
• Why word of mouth remains such a powerful form of church marketing
• How to test your marketing before investing more money
• Why messages inspire, but systems change behavior
• How stories, heroes, and celebration shape your church's culture
• Why you should follow up with the person who brought the guest, not just the guest
• How to know whether invite culture is actually becoming part of your church

If you want sustainable church growth, don't just ask, "How do we get more people in the room?"

Start asking, "How do we help the people already coming become part of the mission?"

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👋 About Us
Fly on the Wall Podcast, presented by Church Boom, takes pastors into a live coaching session with Chris Sonksen, CEO & Founder of Church Boom. Each episode features a pastor, just like you, as they share the challenges they face and get practical advice on how to overcome them.

What can the American church learn from the global church?

And just as importantly, what can the global church learn from us?

In Episode 217 of Fly on the Wall, I sat down with Pastor Norman Gray, who helps lead a network of 1,100 churches across India, for one of my favorite conversations we've had on the podcast.

Norman brought a perspective we don't often get to hear. He's preached in 45 countries and has watched churches grow rapidly in some parts of the world while others struggle to break through.

We talked about what both sides of the global Church can learn from each other.

The American church has incredible strategy, systems, and resources. But in many parts of the world, there's a level of loyalty, dependence on God, and spiritual hunger that we could learn from.

The goal isn't one or the other.

Spirit and strategy have to coexist.

We also unpacked why some churches plateau, what separates simply getting bigger from actually becoming healthier, and why numbers can tell us more about the condition of our church than we sometimes want to admit.

Here's some of what we unpack:

• What the American church can learn from churches around the world
• Why loyalty and reliance on God matter more than ever
• Why spirit without strategy and strategy without spirit both fall short
• The three stages of growth: personality, programs, and process
• The difference between being a fan of Jesus and truly following Him
• Why people everywhere want to feel loved, valued, and like they belong
• The metrics that can reveal whether your church is actually healthy
• Why pastors have to stop putting a positive spin on negative data
• How systems and processes can help a plateaued church grow again

No matter where you lead, the culture may change, but many of the principles don't.

Healthy churches need the Spirit of God AND the wisdom to steward what He's entrusted to them.

Listen to Episode 217 of Fly on the Wall today.

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👋 About Us
Fly on the Wall Podcast, presented by Church Boom, takes pastors into a live coaching session with Chris Sonksen, CEO & Founder of Church Boom. Each episode features a pastor, just like you, as they share the challenges they face and get practical advice on how to overcome them.

Every leader has blind spots.

The problem is, if you could see them yourself, they wouldn’t be blind spots.

In Episode 226 of the Fly on the Wall Podcast, I sat down with my good friend Pastor T.W. Norman for a practical conversation about leadership, team development, and how to keep your church from drifting back into old patterns.

Because healthy leadership requires more than making the right decisions.

It requires surrounding yourself with people who are willing to tell you what you can’t see.

T.W. and I talk about why pastors need coaches and trusted leaders who have permission to speak honestly into their lives. We also unpack how to recognize whether someone on your team is truly in the right seat and what it takes to create lasting change in your church.

Here's some of what we unpack:

-Why every leader has blind spots

-How coaches and trusted leaders can help you see what you're missing

-Why defensiveness can keep leaders from growing

-How to know whether someone on your staff is in the right seat

-The connection between effort, results, and passion

-Why great leaders bring out the best in the people around them

-How to keep your church from drifting back into old routines

-Why cultural change requires more than a one-time conversation

-How attaching a positive outcome to change helps people embrace it

One of the most important reminders from our conversation was this:

“Organizations don't rise to the occasion near as often as they fall back to their routines.”

That’s why leadership requires intentionality.

We have to keep inviting honest feedback. We have to keep evaluating whether our people are positioned to thrive. And when we make healthy changes, we have to keep reminding people why those changes mattered in the first place.

Otherwise, drift happens.

If you want to become a more self-aware leader, build a stronger team, and create a healthier culture that lasts, I believe this conversation will give you some practical tools to do it.

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👋 About Us
Fly on the Wall Podcast, presented by Church Boom, takes pastors into a live coaching session with Chris Sonksen, CEO & Founder of Church Boom. Each episode features a pastor, just like you, as they share the challenges they face and get practical advice on how to overcome them.

Every leader will face criticism.

The question isn't if it will happen.

The question is whether you'll allow criticism to shape your leadership—or simply sharpen it.

In Episode 225 of the Fly on the Wall Podcast, I sat down with Pastor Nick for an honest conversation about leading through criticism, building trust, creating healthy culture, and staying focused on what God has actually called your church to do.

Because one of the greatest temptations for any leader is trying to keep everyone happy.

And that's a battle you'll never win.

Here's some of what we unpack:

• Why church planters often lose momentum by trying to do too much too soon
• How to build critical mass by focusing on a few things and doing them exceptionally well
• Why clarity creates momentum while ambiguity creates tension
• How to lead without becoming addicted to approval
• Practical ways to build trust with people who have been hurt by previous church experiences
• Why leadership should be earned through intentional development—not handed out too quickly
• How leadership circles and apprenticeships help build a healthy leadership pipeline
• The importance of creating an invitation culture instead of relying on a few big Sundays
• How stories and celebration shape the culture of your church

One of the strongest reminders from our conversation was this:

"You can't lead with authority if you're addicted to approval."

Every pastor wants to care for people.

But caring for people isn't the same as allowing every opinion to determine the direction of your church.

Healthy leadership requires the courage to stay clear on the vision God has given you—even when not everyone agrees.

If you've ever wrestled with criticism, struggled to stay focused, or wondered how to build a healthier culture in your church, I think this conversation will encourage you and give you practical leadership tools you can use immediately.

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👋 About Us
Fly on the Wall Podcast, presented by Church Boom, takes pastors into a live coaching session with Chris Sonksen, CEO & Founder of Church Boom. Each episode features a pastor, just like you, as they share the challenges they face and get practical advice on how to overcome them.

Growth is exciting.

But growth also asks something of us.

The systems that supported yesterday's ministry often won't sustain tomorrow's. If we want to lead our churches to the next level, we have to be willing to grow before the church does.

In Episode 224 of the Fly on the Wall Podcast, I sat down with Pastor Justin for a practical conversation about preparing your church for growth before growth arrives.

Because every pastor eventually faces this question:

"What needs to change in me and my church before God can trust us with more?"

This conversation is full of practical leadership principles for pastors who are ready to move from one season of growth to the next.

Here's some of what we unpack:

• Why every new season of growth requires new structures
• The difference between the nature of your church and the structure that supports it
• How to identify the leadership "lids" that can hold your church back
• Why the speed of engagement is one of the strongest predictors of healthy church growth
• How a simple 90-Day Run can help more people get connected and stay engaged
• Practical ways to create accountability with your staff around measurable goals
• Why focusing on activities—not just results—produces lasting growth
• How to use the 12-Week Year framework to keep your team moving forward
• The importance of surrounding yourself with high-capacity leaders as your church grows

One of the biggest takeaways from the conversation was this reminder:

"Focus on the activity, not just the result."

Attendance is the outcome.

The real work is creating healthy systems that connect people, develop leaders, and move them into the life of the church. When those activities become your focus, healthy growth follows.

If your church is growing—or you're believing God for the next season of growth—I think this episode will give you practical tools to help you prepare now for what God wants to do next.

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👋 About Us
Fly on the Wall Podcast, presented by Church Boom, takes pastors into a live coaching session with Chris Sonksen, CEO & Founder of Church Boom. Each episode features a pastor, just like you, as they share the challenges they face and get practical advice on how to overcome them.

One of the biggest leadership mistakes churches make isn't hiring too late.

It's hiring for the wrong reason.

When ministry gets busy, it's natural to want more help. But adding people simply to relieve pressure isn't the same as building a team that moves the mission forward.

In Episode 223 of the Fly on the Wall Podcast, I sat down with Pastor Josh for a practical conversation about developing leaders, building healthy volunteer culture, and knowing when it's actually time to hire another staff member.

Because every growing church eventually faces this question:

"How do I know when it's time to add another leader?"

The answer has less to do with workload and more to do with vision.

Here's some of what we unpack:

• Why every hire should be made for progress—not just relief
• How to know if a new staff member will actually move the ministry forward
• The difference between a calculated risk and an acceptable loss when making hiring decisions
• Healthy financial guardrails every growing church should consider before adding staff
• Why volunteer appreciation events sometimes struggle with engagement—and how to change that
• How second- and third-level leaders shape the culture of your church
• Practical ways to identify and develop future leaders through leadership circles
• Why task should come before team, and team before title
• How to build a leadership pipeline that creates long-term growth

One of the most practical moments in the conversation was this simple principle:

"Don't hire for relief. Hire for progress."

The real question isn't, "What will this person do for me?"

It's, "What will our church be able to accomplish because they're here?"

When you begin thinking that way, every staffing decision becomes far more strategic.

If you're leading a growing church, developing volunteers, or trying to determine your next staffing move, I think this episode will give you practical tools you can apply immediately.

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👋 About Us
Fly on the Wall Podcast, presented by Church Boom, takes pastors into a live coaching session with Chris Sonksen, CEO & Founder of Church Boom. Each episode features a pastor, just like you, as they share the challenges they face and get practical advice on how to overcome them.

Most pastors don't wake up one day and decide to become complacent.

It happens slowly.

The passion that once fueled the calling begins to feel more like routine. The dreams get replaced with responsibilities. Before long, ministry can start feeling more like a career than the calling God originally placed on your life.

In Episode 222 of the Fly on the Wall Podcast, I sat down with Pastor Bill Savage for an honest conversation about coaching, leadership, volunteer teams, and one of the greatest dangers pastors face after years in ministry.

Because every leader eventually has to wrestle with this question:

"Am I still leading with the same hunger I had when God first called me?"

It's a conversation every pastor needs to hear—whether you've been leading for two years or twenty.

Here's some of what we unpack:

• Why every pastor—regardless of church size—needs coaching
• The difference between a mentor and a leadership coach
• Why coaching is an investment, not an expense
• Practical ways to lead and develop volunteer staff members
• How to maximize the limited time your volunteer leaders have
• Why priority management matters more than time management
• Creative ways to stay connected with volunteer leaders without overwhelming them
• How to avoid drifting into autopilot after years in ministry
• The powerful contrast between the two Sauls in Scripture—and what every leader can learn from them

One of the most challenging moments in the conversation was this reminder:

"Life and ministry start as a calling. If we're not careful, they slowly become a career."

The difference between finishing well and simply surviving often comes down to what happens in the middle.

Will we keep learning?

Will we keep dreaming?

Will we stay humble enough to receive coaching and hungry enough to keep growing?

If you've been in ministry for any length of time, I believe this episode will encourage you, challenge you, and help you lead with fresh intentionality.

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👋 About Us
Fly on the Wall Podcast, presented by Church Boom, takes pastors into a live coaching session with Chris Sonksen, CEO & Founder of Church Boom. Each episode features a pastor, just like you, as they share the challenges they face and get practical advice on how to overcome them.

Growing a church isn’t usually about finding the next big idea.

More often, it’s about building the right systems, developing the right leaders, and creating a culture where people move from simply attending to fully engaging in the mission.

In Episode 221 of the Fly on the Wall Podcast, I sat down with Pastor Johnny for a practical coaching conversation on what it really takes to build a multiplying church—not just a well-attended one.

Because every pastor eventually faces this question:

"How do we move people from consuming church to owning the mission?"

That question opens the door to one of the most practical leadership conversations we've had.

Here are a few of the topics we unpack:

• Why culture is always created at the top, supported at the bottom, and lost in the middle
• How to build a vision people are actually willing to give themselves to
• The leadership question every pastor needs to ask: Am I worth following?
• A simple, scalable leadership pipeline that develops future ministry leaders
• The difference between leadership circles and leadership apprenticeships
• How to intentionally identify and develop high-capacity leaders
• Why healthy church growth comes from strong processes—not just passion
• Practical ways to close the back door by getting more people involved in ministry
• Why your volunteer teams should function more like tribes than task lists
• How preparing leaders today positions your church for tomorrow's opportunities

One of my favorite moments from the conversation was this simple reminder:

"When we dig the ditch, God gives the rain."

Too many churches pray for growth without preparing for it. But when we intentionally develop leaders, strengthen our systems, and create room for people to step into ownership, we're positioning ourselves for the opportunities God wants to bring.

If you're thinking about leadership development, volunteer engagement, multiplication, or the future of your church, I think this conversation will encourage you and give you several practical ideas you can implement right away.

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👋 About Us
Fly on the Wall Podcast, presented by Church Boom, takes pastors into a live coaching session with Chris Sonksen, CEO & Founder of Church Boom. Each episode features a pastor, just like you, as they share the challenges they face and get practical advice on how to overcome them.