How do you know when it’s time to start something new… and when it’s time to finally stop something that isn’t working?

That’s one of the toughest leadership tensions in ministry—because in church world, it’s easy to keep programs alive simply because we’re emotionally attached to them… or because a few influential people are attached to them.

In Episode 201 of the Fly on the Wall Podcast, I’m joined by my good friend Paul for a practical coaching conversation around a question every pastor eventually faces:

What does successful growth actually look like—and how do you measure it?

And from there, we dive straight into the big issue: When do you keep a ministry going… and when do you shut it down?

In this episode, we cover:

How to measure growth beyond just attendance and offering

Why you should measure the activity that produces results—not just the results

The key metrics that predict future growth: volunteers, leaders, first-time guests, small groups, and unique givers

The difference between being busy and being productive (and how churches confuse the two)

How to know if a ministry has natural momentum or manufactured momentum

Why some programs drain leadership energy with almost no Kingdom return

The “pilot it before you start it” principle (and why it saves you so much pain later)

What a healthy reboot or rebrand actually requires—beyond a name change

This one is full of wisdom for pastors trying to build with clarity, simplify what matters, and make leadership decisions without guilt or pressure.

🎧 Listen to Episode 201 now and sit in on this coaching conversation.

And if you’re a lead pastor who wants a place to belong—and a circle of other leaders to grow with—I want to personally invite you to check out the Church Boom Network at churchboom.org.

When you join the Network, you’ll connect monthly with a small group of pastors over Zoom, get access to live events and special opportunities, and grow alongside leaders who understand the weight you carry.

Leadership was never meant to be done alone.

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👋 About Us
Fly on the Wall Podcast, presented by Church Boom, takes pastors into a live coaching session with Chris Sonksen, CEO & Founder of Church Boom. Each episode features a pastor, just like you, as they share the challenges they face and get practical advice on how to overcome them.