When we first spoke with Matthew Weatherly-White on the podcast in 2018 (Episode 14), we discussed recovery, athletic longevity, endurance, desiccants, exercising for an audience, intelligent self-awareness, transubstantiation, personal reinvention, the evolution of capitalism, impact investing, the discipline to do less than you think you have to, and tried to apply behavioral economics to fitness. It was an incredible conversation.

Five years later, much has changed in the world and for us as individuals. We started this conversation with the topic of SVB, banking in general, and how Matthew's company handled the 2008 crash, including the idea that safety nets encourage risky behavior. We diverted towards famous podcasters, the rarity of independent thought — which can either marginalize or work in one's favor, digital interface with a virtual mob, the benefits of negative experience, and briefly spoke about the U.S.' war on drugs, money flow, arms sales, and how cartels sometimes step in to provide community services where the government doesn't. Somehow this led us to explore Adam Smith and his "moral framework" of capitalism, which most people ignored in favor of ever more reductionist positions that produced a form of capitalism he actually did not advocate.

This splendid conversation closed out on the topics of publishing, and an almost euphoric description of surfing, courage, and making it into the local line-up. It is indeed, a conversation about the richness of life.