No horses were harmed in the making of this episode.

This one starts off innocently enough with Des providing details of her recent trip to Japan, including the recovery tool she rediscovered on the journey that has surely been abandoned again by now. Kara gives an update on her challenges with a recent dystonia flare-up that caused a bad fall while running. In true Des and Kara fashion, that topic leads to a fun and funny discussion of the new Olympic sports coming for 2024 and 2028 (hello break dancing!) and Des's secret Winter Olympic aspirations.

Then, the conversation turns a bit spicy as they express frustration over the ongoing back and forth about the start time for the Olympic Marathon Trials and Max Siegel's new contract extension as the CEO of USATF. Plus, they welcome Malcolm Gladwell to the old-curmudgeon club for his not-so-hot take on shoe tech. We are sure that he didn't ask, but we know that everybody wants to know...

Editor's note: this episode was recorded before the final decision by USATF to move the start time for the Olympic Marathon Trials to 10:00 am.