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30. The Family That Fights Together Stays Alive Together.
Jared, Oriana and Ned talk about Jared’s choice of topic: The Fall of
Gondolin. One of the three ‘Great Tales’ that formed the key heart of
Tolkien’s earliest work on Middle-earth with the Book of Lost Tales, the story
of the hidden Elf refuge that was destroyed in an evening of primal violence
after a betrayal remained one of the most powerfully resonant for the rest of
Tolkien’s creative life. Referred to in other works and in various mentions
over his lifetime, it only surfaced in redacted form with the original 1977
publication of The Silmarillion. Christopher Tolkien’s last published work on
his father’s fiction drew together the various forms of the story, including
the extensively revised and expanded but frustratingly incomplete revision
from the 1950s, into one volume. What might be the weight of this story in
particular in terms of how to view the rest of Tolkien’s Middle-earth work
that followed? How might Gondolin’s story serve as a way for Tolkien to work
through his own feelings of experiencing wanton destruction via his war
service? What does the experience of Tuor’s encounter with Ulmo on the shores
of the sea in the revised version tell us about not only the perspective of
Men viewing the Valar but also what strange undercurrents about Middle-earth’s
theology might exist? And how did we end up comparing Idril Celebrindal to
Avril Lavigne? (Jared’s still indignant about that one.)
Show Notes.
Jared’s
doodle. It’s
a long way to fall in cool waters...
Indeed, we all three recommend The Green Knight. We all appreciated this
lengthy discussion.
Amazon’s tweet
announcing when the show would begin, along with THAT image. Which, yes, has
been...discussed. (And if you’re wondering
why we’re going on about September
22…)
Separately, news about the shift from New Zealand
to the UK for season two.
The Fall of Gondolin as
a text is really the place to start, just to compare all the various versions
and get a sense of how the story changed and evolved.
As always: Tuor is just a guy.
(But as Oriana says, rereading the story for this episode provided more
insight.)
The History of the
Hobbit is very much
recommended, almost like a distaff entry in the History of Middle-earth
series.
Perhaps you’ve heard of The Clone Wars.
The USS Scamp was the
submarine that Ned’s dad and Jared’s grandfather served on together,
unknowingly. Small world!
The Alan Lee
painting
showing Turgon’s fall. That’s really good and unsettling all at once.
The ‘From each according to his
ability’
line is rather well known.
Voronwë is a legit interesting
character we don’t have enough of
The Seven Gates of
Gondolin. At least we have the full detail of those!
Alan Lee’s take
on Tuor and Ulmo. (For contrast, here’s John
Howe’s.)
Ulmo really does have an intriguing role in the
mythology.
Watch out for the Actually Guys.
Idril is even more of a legit
interesting character etc.
Were you a Sk8er Boi? Or did
you love one? How obvious WAS it?
Support By-The-Bywater on Patreon.
View all episodes
By Jared Pechaček, Oriana Scwindt, and Ned Raggett
4.8
3030 ratings
Jared, Oriana and Ned talk about Jared’s choice of topic: The Fall of
Gondolin. One of the three ‘Great Tales’ that formed the key heart of
Tolkien’s earliest work on Middle-earth with the Book of Lost Tales, the story
of the hidden Elf refuge that was destroyed in an evening of primal violence
after a betrayal remained one of the most powerfully resonant for the rest of
Tolkien’s creative life. Referred to in other works and in various mentions
over his lifetime, it only surfaced in redacted form with the original 1977
publication of The Silmarillion. Christopher Tolkien’s last published work on
his father’s fiction drew together the various forms of the story, including
the extensively revised and expanded but frustratingly incomplete revision
from the 1950s, into one volume. What might be the weight of this story in
particular in terms of how to view the rest of Tolkien’s Middle-earth work
that followed? How might Gondolin’s story serve as a way for Tolkien to work
through his own feelings of experiencing wanton destruction via his war
service? What does the experience of Tuor’s encounter with Ulmo on the shores
of the sea in the revised version tell us about not only the perspective of
Men viewing the Valar but also what strange undercurrents about Middle-earth’s
theology might exist? And how did we end up comparing Idril Celebrindal to
Avril Lavigne? (Jared’s still indignant about that one.)
Show Notes.
Jared’s
doodle. It’s
a long way to fall in cool waters...
Indeed, we all three recommend The Green Knight. We all appreciated this
lengthy discussion.
Amazon’s tweet
announcing when the show would begin, along with THAT image. Which, yes, has
been...discussed. (And if you’re wondering
why we’re going on about September
22…)
Separately, news about the shift from New Zealand
to the UK for season two.
The Fall of Gondolin as
a text is really the place to start, just to compare all the various versions
and get a sense of how the story changed and evolved.
As always: Tuor is just a guy.
(But as Oriana says, rereading the story for this episode provided more
insight.)
The History of the
Hobbit is very much
recommended, almost like a distaff entry in the History of Middle-earth
series.
Perhaps you’ve heard of The Clone Wars.
The USS Scamp was the
submarine that Ned’s dad and Jared’s grandfather served on together,
unknowingly. Small world!
The Alan Lee
painting
showing Turgon’s fall. That’s really good and unsettling all at once.
The ‘From each according to his
ability’
line is rather well known.
Voronwë is a legit interesting
character we don’t have enough of
The Seven Gates of
Gondolin. At least we have the full detail of those!
Alan Lee’s take
on Tuor and Ulmo. (For contrast, here’s John
Howe’s.)
Ulmo really does have an intriguing role in the
mythology.
Watch out for the Actually Guys.
Idril is even more of a legit
interesting character etc.
Were you a Sk8er Boi? Or did
you love one? How obvious WAS it?
Support By-The-Bywater on Patreon.
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