In this special podcast episode, host Peter Bauman (Le Random’s editor in chief) speaks with artist and filmmaker Lawrence Lek about NOX Pavilion at The Bass Museum of Art in Miami, an immersive installation centered on a self-driving car in a “therapy” program for malfunctioning AIs.

They unpack Lek’s long-running NOX universe: a speculative rehab center where care can slide into control, and where machine interiority is treated as a technical defect. The conversation moves from the politics of nonhuman rights and legal gray zones (“it depends”) to Lek’s recurring fascination with autonomous creative agency and what it would mean for an AI to make art as a choice that conflicts with its intended function.

In the second half, Lek and Bauman widen the lens to world-building: why a world isn’t one thing but multiple entry points, how ideas like Umwelt and worldview shape what any intelligence can perceive, and why Lek increasingly thinks of his simulations as “superficial models”—interfaces to reality rather than claims to foundational truth.

Monday’s Le Random Editorial: "Embodying AI at NeurIPS 2025: Creative AI Track" by Luba Elliott

and "Ian Cheng on Composing with Systems" by Peter Bauman

Chapters: 📖

00:00:03 — Intro + Monday editorial highlights (NeurIPS / Luba Elliott)

07:06:06 — From ecology to AI: nonhuman agency, rights, and “mature” discourse

13:39:01 — Repairing AI interiority: Enigma’s “Revery” and malfunction-as-psychology

19:58:05 — Legal personhood + Empty Rider: blame, responsibility, and the “it depends” machine

27:35:09 — The crash test dummy: guide character, onboarding, and corporate voice

32:11:06 — The empathy transition: why people resist empathizing with machines (for now)

38:25:00 — Narratives vs “living code”: simulation stories and instantiated lifeforms

44:21:06 — What counts as a world? Umwelt, worldview, and multiple entry points

53:23:08 — Where immersive worlds may head: metaverse hangover, AI’s role, and formats shifting

01:00:50 — Outro + goodbye