One of the first things former state Senator Tom Campbell said as he began his interview on this episode of Plain Talk with co-host Chad Oban and I was this: "I'm not here to bash Doug," referring to incumbent Governor Doug Burgum.

Campbell, who is considering a run for governor himself, then spent the next six minutes or so bashing Doug.

"He's been an ok governor," Campbell said, damning the incumbent with faint praise.

"I think eight years is probably enough," he said.

"I think everyone realized right from the get go that it was going nowhere," Campbell said of Burgum's presidential campaign.

He also said that campaign didn't reflect well on North Dakota, saying it was "making us look like a small hick state."

Campbell quoted an unnamed friend who told him, "I don't think I want someone controlling the nuclear buttons that just comes from a small town and rides horses."

Those are some sharp jabs for someone not out to "bash" their potential opponent.

Campbell, who says he hasn't yet decided on a gubernatorial run, addressed some potential areas of criticism for his potential campaign, including his family's decision to sell land to tech industry mogul Bill Gates, a bete noire of the populist right. "Our family decided to sell the land to him and we leased it back long term," he said, adding that the money from the transaction "allows us to keep farming."

"That was a very positive thing I did," he added.

Asked about his priorities, should he run for and win the governor's seat, Campbell said he'd sign a bill to cap property taxes, and focus on workforce shortages, particularly in the areas of teachers, medical professionals, and lawyers.

Oban asked Campbell whether he feels incumbent President Joe Biden won the 2020 election, and Campbell wouldn't commit. "I don't know," he said. "There's a lot of information that's still coming out," he added.

Michael Bell, a new talk radio host on KFYR AM550 in Bismarck, also joined this show to talk about starting a gig like that in these divisive political times. "It's been an interesting tome to help break through to the masses," he said.

He's critical of Donald Trump. "He's not really a Republican and certainly not a conservative," Bell said. He also said that many on the right today "yell and shout and think that's conservatism."

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