Plain Talk

Heading into their 2025 legislative session, which starts in January, North Dakota lawmakers will consider dozens and dozens of bills dealing with property taxes. That makes sense because despite a ballot measure aimed at abolishing property taxes face planting on the statewide ballot, North Dakotans are not satisfied with the status quo.

What property tax reform and relief will look like coming out of this legislative session is an open question, but Senate Majority Leader David Hogue told Chad Oban and me on this episode of Plain Talk that there is one certainty.

"There will be caps," he said.

 Which is to say, lawmakers will be capping property tax increases, though Hogue explained that how those caps will be structured will be an open debate. Will the caps apply to all local spending or only that funded by property taxes? Will the caps be a flat percentage or tied to inflation? We'll see, but after years of demuring on caps, won over, Hogue said, by the local control argument, the Legislature is ready to get it done.

Hogue also spoke about steps the Legislature plans to take to strengthen its oversight role in policy. The majority leader says the plan is to move dozens of executive branch officials who evaluate policy to the legislative branch. Which makes sense. If the Legislature wants to measure the success or failure of a given policy, it might not make a lot of sense to get that analysis from someone working for an agency head who lobbied for the policy in the first place.

This move is also aimed at addressing the challenges presented by term limits. Now that the legislature is going to see more turnover, by law, it's going to be losing some level of institutional knowledge. Moving these workers to the legislative branch serves as a buttress to that brain drain.

Hogue also spoke to impending debates over state jail and prison populations and state-provided mental health services, including the push to build a new state hospital in Jamestown, which he said is far too expensive.

Also on this episode, Oban and I discuss Gov.-elect Kelly Armstrong's decision to appoint Democrat (and erstwhile Plain Talk gust host) Rep. Corey Mock to his administration, and provide some local analysis of President-elect Donald Trump's cabinet choices.

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In this episode of Plain Talk, guest hosts Corey Mock and Jessica Unruh Bell are joined by Minot Representative Scott Louser. Together, they dive deep into the complexities of North Dakota's property tax system, dissecting the legislative response to the failed Measure 4 and exploring innovative proposals for property tax relief and reform. 

Mock and Bell close the episode with their perspectives on upcoming legislative priorities and the latest developments in President Trump’s cabinet appointments.

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In this special episode of Plain Talk, guest hosts Corey Mock and Jessica Unruh Bell welcome Senator Dick Dever from District 32 for a candid conversation on legislative insights and challenges. Senator Dever shares reflections on his experience in the legislature, discussing the impact of term limits, the significance of interim committees, and his personal goal to restore honor and civility in North Dakota politics. The discussion also covers the evolving responsibilities of policy advisory roles and predictions on how term limits might reshape the state’s government structure.

Following the interview, Corey and Jessica exchange their own insights on the upcoming legislative session and the recent reporting about Securities Commissioner Karen Tyler. 

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Governor-elect Kelly Armstrong, fresh off a landslide victory on the statewide ballot, is coming in hot. He's still got a term in Congress to finish out -- he's said he'll resign shortly before midnight the day before he's sworn in as governor on December 15 -- but he's got big plans for his time in Bismarck.

"I don't give platitudes," he told me and Chad Oban on this episode of Plain Talk.

Armstrong campaigned on property tax reform. He opposed Measure 4 -- he said in a previous Plain Talk interview that he hated the proposal -- but he also isn't a fan of what the Legislature has been doing to address the issue in previous sessions, which as amounted transferring local spending into the state budget.

"Don't send me another buy down without significant reform," he told us. "It hasn't worked in the past. It's not going to work going forward."

He also talked about his philosophy when it comes to staffing his new administration. "I have a small alaw firm mentality for how I operate," he said (Armstrong practiced as an attorney before his political career). "I hire smart people and empower them to make decisions.

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The vote is in, and despite weeks of polling gurus telling us it was going to be a close election, it wasn't particularly close. It wasn't a Reaganesque national landslide, either, but former President Donald Trump won not only the Electoral College vote but the national popular vote as well.

Legendary North Dakota political operative Pat Finken joined me and Chad Oban on this episode of Plain Talk to discuss the national election, as well as local elections, where Finken, through his Brighter Future Fund political action committee, campaigned against the Measure 5 legalization of marijuana and as well as a couple of Republican legislative candidates.

The high turnout election, both in North Dakota and nationally, showed "the importance of showing up," Finken said.

We also discussed how the election will impact the divides in the North Dakota Republican party, and how that coalition will govern in Bismarck.

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The legislative races in the Grand Forks area have gotten ugly. Incumbent state Sen. Scott Meyer, a Republican from District 18, sent his opponent threatening social media messages. Incumbent state Rep. Emily O'Brien from District 42 has been accused of not living in her district. Now Sarah Grossbauer, a Democratic-NPL candidate in District 42 -- one of O'Brien's opponents -- is dodging questions about drug use after a Republican (and former friend) leaked a photo of her allegedly using cocaine in the bathroom of a downtown Grand Forks bar.

Me and Chad Oban talked about it all on this episode of Plain Talk (full disclosure, Oban works for North Dakota United, as does Grossbauer). One complicating factor in all of this is our propensity -- and I really mean "our" because we're all guilty of this -- of being hypercritical of candidates we don't like while rationalizing the behavior of those we do.

It has to stop. We can expect more from our elected officials.

Auditor Josh Gallion also joined this episode to talk about what he's done during his two terms in office to justify voters giving him a third. Among his arguments? He's modernized the office. "We had walls of filing cabinets with paper records," he said. Now, much of that data has been digitized, and is available online.

Gallion also talked about his office's greater efforts to communicate audit information to the public, but at times that's gotten the incumbent in some hot water. His critics in the Legislature, and in local government, have accused him of sensationalizing funding. Gallion responded to those criticisms, and others related to the costs of his office's audits.

Finally, Chad and made our 2024 election predictions. How will North Dakota's statewide races shake out? Which ballot measures will be approved? Will the partisan balance in the Legislature change much? And who is going to win the national election?

You'll have to listen to find out what we think. And, after Tuesday, maybe you can make fun of us for being wrong.

Speaking of which, we have a new way for you to communicate with us. Just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It’s super easy—leave your message, tell us your name and where you’re from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode.

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We live in an age of misinformation. The internet is chock full of false narratives and egregious bunkum that can seem plausible to some if for no other reason than the sheer volume of it orr, perhaps, because it confirms certain biases and attitudes the audience already has.

Recently a website called the Gateway Pundit, which was forced to print a retraction as a part of a settlement in a defamation lawsuit brought by Georgia election workers published what it purports to be a news story about the Bank of North Dakota.

Citing anonymous sources and critics, the "story" insinuates that the BND is involved in a cover-up of bad loans, bailouts, and other nefarious activities. The one on-the-record statement was given by Sen. Kent Weston, a Republican who serves in District 9.

Normally, one might think it unwise to respond to internet cranks, but we live in an era where talk radio host Alex Jones was able to convince 1 in 5 Americans that the Sandy Hook school shooting was a hoax.

These things can't be taken lightly.

BND President Don Morgan joined this episode of Plain Talk to provide factual answers. "The only part of the article that is true is they got our name right," Morgan told Chad Oban and me.

"As it kind of got picked up by some locals, we decided we want to get some facts out there," he continued.

Morgan says the bank is in strong financial shape, and it hasn't received bailouts. He also said that Sen. Weston hasn't, to his knowledge, contacted the bank about the claims made in the article.

Also on this episode, Democratic-NPL auditor candidate Tim Lamb joined to discuss his campaign.

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"Even the most extreme ends of our legislature vote the same way 60+ percent of the time," a Plain Talk listener and sitting state lawmaker texted me recently.

He was making a point about the way we talk about politics, where we emphasize our disagreements more than our agreements. "Difference in ideology is great. We need more civil debate and strengthening ideas through discourse," he said. "But the gap between left and right is much narrower than most people realize."

He's right, and the voting records bear it out. We do agree more than we disagree, what gets the heat, what draws our attention for reasons having to do with human nature (and, if we're being honest, the sort of content that drives clicks and shares and views) is our differences.

I was thinking about while recording this episode of Plain Talk, which featured Chad Oban and I moderating a debate between District 10 Sen. Ryan Braunberger, a Democrat, and challenger George Roughead, a Republican. As we covered education topics like student performance, school choice, and school lunches, and as we hit on working-class issues like child care, and as we delved into culture war issues like LGTBQ issues and book bans, these two bright, engaged, well-informed candidates spent a lot of time agreeing on what North Dakota's challenges are.

They often disagreed, sometimes sharply, on what the solutions to those problems are, but when it comes to what the job before them would be if elected to another term in the Legislature? Both men were over the target.

"I was a very good voice for my district," Braunberger told us when asked why voters should give him another term. He mentioned his work on child care and his efforts to work with Republicans. "Being one of only four Democrats in the Senate, you have to work across the aisle," he said.

Roughead, who works as a teacher, said he wants to focus on education. "The Senate doesn't have any active teachers," he said.

District 10 features one of the few competitive races in North Dakota, and that's probably because it's one of the few places with mixed partisan representation. The debate in District 10 can tell us a lot about the debates that are happening (or that would be happening if they featured competitive races) in legislative campaigns around North Dakota.

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Chad Oban and I have a lot of disagreements while hosting the Plain Talk podcast, which is what you'd expect. He's left-of-center; I'm right-of-center. Today, however, we were singing from the same choirbook.

Sen. Scott Meyer, a Republican running for re-election in Grand Forks-area District 18, who admitted to me that he got drunk and sent threatening messages to his opponent, Democratic-NPL candidate Kyle Thorson, should resign.

We each made our case for why on today's episode of Plain Talk.

Also joining us was former NDGOP chairman Perrie Schafer to discuss the work his LegeNDary Fund is doing to promote traditional, "normie" conservatism in North Dakota. "There are a certain group of people who are loud and make a lot of noise," he said. "They are not the majority."

He said he wants to bring what he calls the "80%" of reasonable North Dakota Republicans back into active engagement with the NDGOP.

"When the loud side of either party makes a lot of noise, the 80% are quiet."

Also joining us was Treasurer Thomas Beadle to respond to criticisms of the State Investment Board made by two of our previous guests, Rep. Bernie Satrom and Rep. Mitch Ostlie of Jamestown. They claim that North Dakota's Legacy Fund investments are transparent enough, and have proposed legislation to require an online database detailing where the fund's money is at.

Beadle says he supports the idea, but pointed out some limitations.

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The Legacy Fund was launched in 2010 when North Dakota voters approved a legislatively-initiated constitutional amendment to create it. Now, thanks to the share of oil tax revenues it receives, as well as the investment returns its generated, it sits with a balance of about $10.7 billion.

And it's become something of a political football. It can seem as though we are endlessly debating how the fund is invested and what we should do with the fund and its earnings.

On this episode of Plain Talk, a couple of Republican lawmakers from District 12, in the Jamestown area, talked about legislation they'd like to see passed during the 2025 session which, they feel, would help inform those debates. Because one of the biggest problems of the Legacy Fund is that we don't know how a lot of the money is invested. Rep. Mitch Ostlie, and Rep. Bernie Satrom, estimate that about $3.1 billion of the fund's investments are opaque to public scrutiny.

"Where are the dollars invested?" Rep. Ostlie asked.

Their proposal is called the Legacy Fund Transparency Act, and it's pretty simple. It would require that the State Investment Board list the Legacy Fund's investments in a public way. Perhaps on the SIB's website.

The lawmakers feel this would not only help inform debates over what we should be doing with the Legacy Fund, but also help us identify problematic investments, like when the fund was invested in Russian bonds. "We were literally funding the Russian government," Rep. Satrom said.

The lawmakers were also somewhat critical of the current members of the State Investment Board, which includes among its number elected officials like Lt. Gov. Tammy Miller, Treasurer Thomas Beadle, Rep. Glenn Bosch, and Sen. Jerry Klein.

"This has just been incredibly hands off," Rep. Satrom said.

"We were able to find out...that we were in Russian bonds," he continued at another point in the interview. "Couldn't they see? They're just trusting the experts and not having common sense."

Also on this episode, Chad Oban and I discuss what are probably the most important legislative races in the North Dakota, in Districts 10, 24, and 46, and we also talk about U.S. House candidate Trygve Hammer's recent criticisms of his opponent Julie Fedorchak.

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