5 Plain Questions

Jonathan Thunder's new short film Ish Meets a Mermaid brings together live action, hand-drawn animation, mythology, and humor. I welcome him back to the show to reacquaint listeners with his work and to discuss the film. He describes how the project took shape and how collaborators helped bring it to life. He explains why he values handmade and imperfect creative work in an era that prizes polish and AI. We also talk about Indigenous storytelling, the influences that shaped his artistic voice, and his next project, The Gitchi Gummy Gazette. We speak as a collective voice from 5 Plain Questions and we synthesize the themes that emerged in our conversation with Jonathan Thunder. We frame his work as a fusion of Indigenous myth, painterly imagination, and small‑scale filmmaking craft. We examine three persistent themes: authorship rooted in lived experience, the primacy of narrative over technical sheen, and the ethical care required when presenting Indigenous symbolism. We report that Jonathan favored hand drawn animation inserted into live action to preserve a tactile quality and to remain faithful to the story. We discuss the collaborative process where cast, crew, and a writer partner refined the script so the dialogue fit the actors and cultural context. We close with a forward view: Jonathan is developing The Gitchi Gummy Gazette, backed by funding and regional partners, and we encourage listeners to follow his work via Instagram and his website as the new film moves into production.

Takeaways:

• I made Ish Meets a Mermaid by blending live action and hand drawn animation with mythology and humor.
• We co wrote the script and my partner Tashia helped shape structure and dialogue for clarity.
• I chose rough, handmade animation and rough craft over polish to keep the work human and real.
• I value embedding Indigenous cultural details in the story so it feels authentic and not like a garnish.
• We learned that production work built a family, and I loved the hard work of making a thirty person set run.
• I keep final cut and did much of the editing and visual effects myself to protect the story's nuance.
• I am now developing The Gitchi Gummy Gazette, a paranormal comedy about a failing journalist who sees ghosts and odd leads.
• We are finding that audiences often prefer handcrafted, imperfect art that they can see themselves in over flawless AI work.

Links referenced in this episode:

• instagram.com/johnthunder
• johnthunder.com
• patreon.com/5plainquestions
• elevenwarriorarts.com

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• 5 plain Questions
• Art of the World
• The Art Institute International
• Netflix
• Pixar
• Marvel
• CNN
• Vision Maker Media
• Film North
• Upper Midwest Film Office
• Patreon
• Eleven Warrior Arts
• 11warriorarts.com
• Windrows Common Council Fund
• Northern Plains Indigenous Film Festival
• Skin Fest
• Artists Guild of America
• Apple (Siri)
• Amazon (Alexa)
• Autodesk (Maya)

I am announcing that 5 Plain Questions is now on Patreon. I have spent seven seasons interviewing Native American and Indigenous artists, musicians, writers, and culture-bearers. I make the show on my own, and now you can help keep it going by joining our Patreon. For $3 a month you get a monthly note from me about what is coming up. For $7 you can receive every episode a week early and hear them ad free. For $15 you can see the video first and send your own questions for an upcoming guest. Every episode has five Plane Questions and you get to ask the sixth. Visit patreon.com/5plainquestions to join, and thank you for listening.

Links referenced in this episode:

• patreon.com/5plainquestions

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Patreon

Pamela J. Peters reclaims Native identity through her art. I invited Ms. Peters, a Navajo multimedia artist and photographer, to recount her reclamation of cultural presence and to articulate how her imagery and multimedia projects restitute narratives long effaced by cinematic fantasy and public ignorance. We explore her biographical roots—her clan introductions, decades spent in Los Angeles, and the formative influence of elders and historical dislocation—together with her seminal project Legacy of Exile Indians that interrogates the 1956 Indian relocation program and the urban trajectories it produced. I foreground how storytelling functions as a vital cultural modality for Native communities, both as testimony and as a mechanism of intergenerational reconnection, and how Ms. Peters’s work deliberately resists reductive iconography to present contemporary Indigenous personhood. We also examine the evolving focus of her practice as she returns to the reservation, addressing ecological concerns such as water scarcity, the legacies of resource extraction, and the stewardship of homeland and nonhuman relatives. For those who wish to engage further, I reference her photographic corpus and ongoing projects available through her website and social channels, where she continues to document and amplify the complexities of Native American life in urban and rural contexts.

Takeaways:

• I use photography and multimedia to reclaim Native identity and correct Hollywood myths.
• I documented the 1956 Indian relocation program and its effects on urban Native lives.
• I show modern Native people in cities without relying on fantasy costumes or relic images.
• I encourage young people to leave social media, learn from elders, and learn about nature.
• I am shifting my work to focus on water, land, and resource issues on the reservation.
• We need to reclaim our tribal names and not be generalized only as indigenous or native.
• I ask artists to explain their use of indigenous imagery and to show tribal specificity.

Links referenced in this episode:

• https://pamelajpeters.com/
• elevenwarriorarts.com

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• University of Southern California (USC)
• UC Santa Cruz (University of California, Santa Cruz)
• University of Arizona
• Change Labs
• YouTube
• Instagram
• Threads (Instagram Threads)
• TikTok
• Bluesky
• Facebook
• LinkedIn
• Substack
• Eleven Warrior Arts (11warriorarts.com)
• Art of the Rural

I speak with Alison Bremner, a Tlingit artist who blends traditional formline art with contemporary themes. I ask her about her background and mentors, and she explains how ceremony and community shaped her path. She describes learning from the Boxleys and building a career through shows, grants, and mentorship. She discusses her work in museum collections and a collaboration with Starbucks on cup designs. We also talk about her new project putting art on nails and her advice to young artists to work hard and start early. I encountered Alison Bremner as a Tlingit artist whose aesthetic practice emerges from a profound confluence of lived cultural inheritance and disciplined apprenticeship. I recall her articulation of a pivotal moment at Celebration in Juneau when the animating force of dance, language and carved transformation masks crystallized the trajectory of her work; she described purchasing a sixteen‑inch canvas immediately thereafter and commencing her first formline painting. I emphasize her lineage of mentorship under David Albert Boxley and David Robert Boxley and the manner in which those relationships instantiate a model of reciprocity: artists who sustain commercial careers while remaining integrally tethered to community obligations and ceremonial responsibilities. Throughout our dialogue she delineated two discrete but interdependent currents in her oeuvre—the public, commercial practice that circulates on social platforms and in galleries, and the private, traditional corpus that is retained for ceremonial use and community replenishment—thereby rendering visible the ethical architecture that governs her choices as a culture bearer and professional artist.

Takeaways:

• I grew up Tlingit in Yakutat and my coming-of-age ceremony changed my life and art direction.
• I apprenticed with David Albert Boxley and David Robert Boxley for four years which taught me traditional practice and community responsibility.
• We balance traditional formline rules with contemporary subjects by composing shapes in traditional ways and telling modern stories.
• I built my career by applying to local shows, small grants, open calls, and learning from mentors and peers.
• I advise young artists to use the pre-family years to work hard and to dedicate time to their craft.
• I collaborated with Starbucks after initial contact through Instagram and careful meetings that led to a cup project released after a year.
• I trained in nail technology to make press-on nails so people can wear our art daily and connect with collectors often.
• We emphasize that established artists should keep doors open and that mentees must embrace discomfort and learn with humility.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Burke Museum of Natural History and Culture
• British Museum
• Musée des beaux-arts de Montréal
• Hood Museum of Art (Dartmouth College)
• Sealaska Heritage Institute
• Juneau Arts & Humanities Council
• Grunt Gallery
• Starbucks
• Starbucks Art Program
• Instagram
• TikTok
• Facebook
• Threads
• Bluesky
• Art of the Rural
• Substack
• ElevenWarriorArts

I will resume the podcast next week and release new episodes weekly for the remainder of the season. I had paused production while I established the Indigenous Art House and set up the Sovereign Studio gallery in downtown Fargo. We also launched the Northern Plains Indigenous Film Festival, which required substantial effort and contributed to the hiatus. I have recorded new interviews and assembled a strong roster of guests, though a technical failure cost us one recording. I ask that you support Native and Indigenous artists by visiting the gallery or contributing online. I am ready to continue the series and I will see you next time.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Indigenous Art House
• Sovereign Studio
• Solo's Eatery
• Northern Plains Indigenous Film Festival
• Fargo Theater
• Center for Native Futures

Holly Doll, a distinguished artist and citizen of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, embodies the intersection of cultural heritage and contemporary artistic expression. Specializing in Lakota beadwork and quillwork, Holly's artistic journey commenced at the tender age of two under the tutelage of her mother, instilling in her a deep respect for cultural values that inform her work today. As the Program Director for Ignite Rural and a Program Manager at Arts Midwest, she engages in pivotal efforts to support artists and communities, particularly through collaboration with the Waterers, a collective dedicated to disrupting conventional philanthropy. In this episode, we delve into Holly's multifaceted career, exploring her influences, the role of grief in shaping her path, and the importance of self-care amidst community engagement. We invite you to join us as we uncover the profound insights and experiences that Holly shares, illuminating the vibrant connection between art, culture, and community support.

Takeaways:

• Holly Doll's artistic journey began at a remarkably young age, influenced profoundly by her mother, who instilled in her a deep appreciation for Lakota beadwork and quillwork.
• As a citizen of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, Holly Doll embodies the intersection of traditional artistry and contemporary expression, enriching her community through cultural work.
• Her professional endeavors span over a decade in arts and culture nonprofits, showcasing her commitment to fostering local power and supporting artists within her community.
• Holly's experiences illustrate the importance of community connections; she emphasizes the collective nature of grief and healing within Indigenous cultures.
• Through her work with the Waterers, Holly engages in radical philanthropy, challenging conventional approaches to support and empowering marginalized voices.
• Holly encourages the younger generation to embrace their fears, to follow their passions, and to prioritize self-care as they navigate their unique journeys.

In this engaging conversation, Aiko Little shares their journey as a writer and actor, discussing their influences, career development, and the importance of creating opportunities for themself and others. They emphasizes the significance of pursuing education and passion, while also encouraging young creatives to embrace their unique paths. Aiko reflects on their experiences in the foster care system and how they shaped their perspective on success and storytelling. The discussion concludes with Aiko's advice for the next generation and their aspirations for the future.

Takeaways:

• Aiko Little emphasizes the importance of pursuing education and passion as foundational elements for personal and professional growth.
• Their journey through the foster care system profoundly shaped their understanding of success and the nature of storytelling.
• In thier role within the Writers Guild, they advocates for amplifying indigenous voices in the creative industry, striving for inclusivity and representation.
• Aiko encourages young creatives to embrace their unique paths and pursue opportunities that may initially seem out of reach.
• They reflect on how their influences, including matriarchs and comedic figures, have shaped their artistic voice and perspective.
• Aiko aspires to create formalized training opportunities for indigenous youth, highlighting the necessity of mentorship and support.

Links referenced in this episode:

• elevenwarriorarts.com

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Writers Guild of America
• Amazon
• Wong Fu Productions
• Starkid Productions
• American Conservatory Theater
• Tia LeClaire

Penny Kagigebi, a queer 2-Spirit artist of White Earth Ojibwe heritage, has dedicated her life to the intersection of queer activism and cultural healing. In our conversation, we explore her commitment to preserving the endangered art forms of porcupine quillwork and birchbark basketry, while also addressing the critical question of what it means to keep these traditions alive in contemporary society. Since her previous appearance on our podcast, Penny has been remarkably active, receiving numerous accolades and fellowships that underscore her impactful work in the community. We explore her recent exhibition, "Queering Indigeneity," which not only showcases her artistry but also serves as a platform for intergenerational knowledge transfer among Indigenous artists. Join us as we reflect on Penny's journey and the vital role that art plays in cultural reclamation and community healing.

Takeaways:

1. Penny Kagigebi's artistic journey embodies the intersection of queer activism and cultural healing through endangered Indigenous art forms.
2. The exhibition 'Queering Indigeneity' serves as a platform for two spirit artists to reclaim cultural narratives and foster community connections.
3. Penny emphasizes the importance of mentorship and intergenerational knowledge transfer among Indigenous artists to ensure the survival of cultural practices.
4. Through her artwork, Penny aims to facilitate healing and remembrance within the community by integrating significant cultural teachings and values.
5. The collaborative nature of the exhibition highlights the transformative power of art in creating spaces of acceptance and belonging for two spirit individuals.
6. Penny's commitment to community engagement reflects a desire to empower Indigenous youth and nurture the next generation of artists in their cultural practices.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

1. Region 2 Arts Council
2. Anishinaabe Arts Initiative
3. Lake Regions Art Council
4. Minnesota State Arts Board
5. First People's Funds
6. Cultural Capital
7. Emerging Curators Institute
8. Manoomin Arts Initiative
9. Minnesota AIDS Project
10. Indigenous People's Task Force
11. Art of the Rural
12. Textile Center

Suzan Shown Harjo, a distinguished advocate for Native American rights, has dedicated over six decades to the protection and advancement of Indigenous interests. As the president of The Morning Star Institute and a former executive director of prominent organizations, she has been instrumental in the creation of pivotal legislation, including the American Indian Religious Freedom Act and the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act. Our discourse with Harjo elucidates her remarkable endeavors, including the campaigns that successfully led to the elimination of derogatory Native mascots and the reclamation of ancestral lands. We explore her insights on the importance of education and cultural preservation, as well as her commitment to fostering unity within Indigenous communities. Join us as we explore the profound impact of Harjo's work and her vision for the future of Native American rights. In this profound exchange with Suzan Shown Harjo, we engage in a comprehensive exploration of her lifetime of advocacy for Native American rights. Harjo, a trailblazer in the fight for Indigenous justice, recounts her extensive involvement in critical legislative initiatives and her commitment to preserving Native culture and heritage. The discussion traverses her experiences with the anti-Vietnam War movement, her tenure in various influential roles, and her insights on the significance of education in shaping future leaders. With a focus on the importance of cultural identity and the reclamation of Indigenous narratives, Harjo articulates her vision for a more equitable future, where the voices of Native peoples are not only heard but celebrated. This episode serves as an essential reminder of the resilience and strength of Indigenous communities and the ongoing fight for justice and recognition.

Takeaways:

1. Suzan Shown Harjo's advocacy for Native American rights spans over six decades, marking her as a pivotal figure in this movement.
2. As the president of The Morning Star Institute, Harjo has played a crucial role in enacting significant legislation that protects Indigenous rights and cultures.
3. Her leadership in campaigns against derogatory Native mascots has resulted in the successful removal of offensive names from American sports.
4. Harjo's interdisciplinary contributions as a poet, curator, and journalist have enriched the cultural landscape of Native American narratives throughout her career.

Links referenced in this episode:

1. elevenwarriorarts.com

Companies mentioned in this episode:

1. Morningstar Institute
2. National Congress of the American Indians
3. Native American Rights Fund
4. University of Oklahoma
5. Dartmouth
6. Syracuse University
7. St. John's University
8. University of Minnesota
9. WBAI
10. Pacifica
11. CBS
12. Walter Cronkite
13. Philip Glass
14. Annie Revere
15. Lillian Hellman
16. Yip Harburg
17. Ring Lardner Jr.
18. Medicine Lodge Creek

Suzan Shown Harjo, a prominent advocate for Native American rights, has dedicated over six decades to championing the causes of Indigenous peoples. As the president of The Morning Star Institute and a former executive director of significant organizations, she has been instrumental in the passage of landmark legislation such as the American Indian Religious Freedom Act and the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act. Her relentless efforts have not only led to the return of over one million acres of Indigenous land but have also sparked movements to eliminate derogatory Native mascots from American sports. In this insightful conversation, we explore Harjo's profound impact on Native rights, her personal journey, and her unwavering commitment to cultural preservation and advocacy. Join us as we explore her invaluable contributions to the Indigenous community and the ongoing struggle for justice and recognition. Suzan Shown Harjo, a Cheyenne citizen and an illustrious advocate for Native American rights, has dedicated over sixty years to the tireless pursuit of justice and equity for Indigenous peoples. As the founder and president of The Morning Star Institute, she has been instrumental in the establishment of landmark legislation that has fundamentally reshaped the landscape of Native rights in the United States. Her involvement in the creation of the American Indian Religious Freedom Act (AIRFA) of 1978 and its amendments, as well as the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act of 1990, underscores her commitment to the protection of Indigenous cultural and spiritual practices. Throughout her career, Harjo has championed the repatriation of ancestral lands and cultural artifacts, successfully advocating for the return of over one million acres to Native peoples. Her relentless efforts have not only led to the elimination of derogatory Native mascots in sports but have also included a profound commitment to the re-Indigenization of place names across the nation. Harjo's recognition as a recipient of the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2014 further solidifies her status as a leading voice for Indigenous justice, reflecting the deep respect and admiration she has garnered throughout her extensive career. In this engaging conversation, Harjo reflects on her upbringing in Cheyenne and Muscogee lands, where her early experiences shaped her worldview. Raised amid rich cultural traditions and a strong sense of community, she discusses the influence of her grandparents and other familial figures who instilled in her the values of resilience, respect, and kinship. Harjo's narrative weaves through her educational journey, highlighting her pivotal experiences in various locations, including her time in Italy, which broadened her perspective on cultural ties and shared human values. She emphasizes the importance of understanding the interconnectedness of Indigenous peoples globally, drawing parallels between their struggles and the experiences of other marginalized communities. This dialogue not only illuminates Harjo's personal journey but also serves as a testament to the collective resilience of Indigenous peoples and the ongoing fight for recognition and rights. As the conversation unfolds, Harjo shares insights into her formative influences, including significant mentors and experiences that have guided her throughout her life. Her reflections on mentorship illuminate the reciprocal nature of learning, where both the mentor and mentee engage in a dynamic exchange of knowledge and wisdom. Harjo's journey is punctuated by her encounters with notable figures in the arts and civil rights movements, emphasizing the importance of collaboration and community in effecting meaningful change. She articulates the profound impact of collective action in the pursuit of justice, laying the groundwork for future generations of advocates. Harjo's story is a powerful reminder of the importance of cultural heritage, the necessity for advocacy, and the indomitable spirit of Indigenous peoples as they continue to navigate the complexities of identity, rights, and sovereignty.

Takeaways:

1. Suzan Shown Harjo has dedicated over sixty years to advocating for Native American rights.
2. She was instrumental in the passage of significant legislation, including the American Indian Religious Freedom Act.
3. Harjo's efforts led to the return of over one million acres of Indigenous lands and the elimination of offensive sports mascots.
4. As President of The Morning Star Institute, she continues to be a leading voice for Indigenous culture and legal rights.
5. Her work has garnered numerous accolades, including the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2014.
6. Harjo emphasizes the importance of community and kinship in Indigenous cultures, drawing parallels with Mediterranean societies.

Links referenced in this episode:

1. elevenwarriorarts.com

Companies mentioned in this episode:

1. Morningstar Institute
2. National Congress of the American Indians
3. Native American Rights Fund
4. American Indian Religious Freedom Act
5. National Museum of the American Indian Act
6. Native American Graves Protection Act
7. McDonnell Douglas Aircraft
8. Haskell Indian Nations University
9. WBAI Radio
10. American Indian Press Association