Michael and Mark speak with Ian Seabrook about Mark's book titled REFUGE, the production of which Ian documented in real time for the Reality Bath film. Ian is an Underwater Director of Photography in the Motion Picture and Television Industry. He worked on "Man of Steel" and “Batman v Superman” with us, as well as “Cabin in the Woods", and the box office titan, “Deadpool 2”. He has invested 18 months in a documentary about Mark hence it was important to be here for the printing of REFUGE. The conversation covers a lot of ground, from most and least favorite film and directors, to commitment, investment, belief in Self, and what such belief or doubt or confidence can create.