By-The-Bywater: A Podcast about All Things J.R.R. Tolkien

76. It Seems Like It Sucks Up There.


Listen Later

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Ned’s choice of topic: Arnor and Angmar. Only half-referenced in the Jackson adaptations, the long-gone realms of Arnor and Angmar don’t have much place in the original Lord of the Rings text itself – in fact, Tolkien didn’t fully introduce either of them by time and set a firm sense of what exactly they were until much later in the overall revision process, including the development of the appendices. Arnor was the northern equivalent of Gondor, a realm in exile founded by Númenor’s refugees, but one that slowly fractured and then faded away or was conquered bit by bit. Angmar was the realm doing most of the conquering, set up and ruled over by the Lord of the Nazgûl in the guise of the Witch-king, though after his final conquest of the remains of Arnor, Angmar itself was soon after destroyed via an invasion from Gondor. But while centuries have passed since both their ends, the realms have a strange, at times unsettling impact on the characters and situations in the main text. What was the legacy of both kingdoms as it affected Aragorn in particular, as well as the remnant of peoples he found himself leading, even at times at a great distance? How did the sense of history in England itself in terms of lost kingdoms and mysterious ruins play into what Tolkien imagined for both realms? Was the nature of Angmar always just a matter of convenience, and what does it mean that it seems to be drawing on numerous different peoples and species? And if nature abhors a vacuum, how much did the nature of fandom contribute in terms of fan work talking about both of them? (Answer: quite a bit.)

Show Notes.

Jared’s doodle. (And be sure to check the follow-up post on part of the inspiration.)

The Ursula K Le Guin 2025 Prize! And indeed Jared is among the nominees. (Per his suggestion, check out Rakesfall.)

The Maine International Film Festival is about here and here’s the Sight Unseen screening information. (Plus check out Oriana’s article in MovieMaker cowritten with her husband and creative partner on the film!)

Meantime, Ned and his musical side turn up in podcast episodes on Suede and Oasis (for the latter, the segment he’s in starts around forty minutes in, and here’s the segment’s host and producer Melissa Locker’s book on Oasis fans including him, And After All).

The Rings of Power casting news du jour. 

Embracer now calls itself Fellowship Entertainment. Of course.

Alex Scopic’s article for Current Affairs, “How The Right Abuses Tolkien.” (And as ever check out our Silicon Valley episode.)

Simon Tolkien’s article “Finding Your Way Into Writing Fiction As J. R. R. Tolkien’s Grandson,” as shared via LitHub.

Arnor and Angmar – they’re places both!

It’s true there’s not as much pre-Columbian architecture in the US, but it’s worth noting what remains – here’s a useful initial guide.

Fanwork on these places? Consider Annúminas and Carn Dûm… Plus, our Karen Wynn Fonstad/Atlas of Middle-earth episode.

The Sceptre of Annúminas – more important than the city itself.

The Chieftains of the Dúnedain in Arnor, ruling over…something. But what, exactly, is unclear. (Though per this note, some scattered information emerged in some of the posthumous publications.)

Gilraen? She’s awesome. 

If you REALLY want to get into some fanfic on Aragorn’s family background, there’s this

Ah yes, Tora Bora. Great.

Our episode on allegory and applicability.

Witches and ducks. Look, you know the scene. (We assume.)

Support By-The-Bywater (and our network) on Patreon, and you can hang out with us in a friendly Discord.

...more
View all episodesView all episodes
Download on the App Store

By-The-Bywater: A Podcast about All Things J.R.R. TolkienBy Jared Pechaček, Oriana Scwindt, and Ned Raggett

  • 4.8
  • 4.8
  • 4.8
  • 4.8
  • 4.8

4.8

32 ratings


More shows like By-The-Bywater: A Podcast about All Things J.R.R. Tolkien

View all
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know by iHeartPodcasts

Stuff They Don't Want You To Know

10,331 Listeners

The Prancing Pony Podcast by The Prancing Pony Podcast

The Prancing Pony Podcast

2,043 Listeners

Pod Save the World by Crooked Media

Pod Save the World

24,689 Listeners

It’s Just A Show by Chris Piuma and Charlotte Wells (and Adam Clarke and Beth Martin)

It’s Just A Show

48 Listeners

Tides of History by Wondery /  Patrick Wyman

Tides of History

6,326 Listeners

You’re Not Funny by Adam Clarke and Chris Piuma

You’re Not Funny

1 Listeners

And Thereby Hangs A Tale by Adam Clarke

And Thereby Hangs A Tale

1 Listeners

Some More News by SomeMoreNews | PodcastOne

Some More News

2,570 Listeners

Behind the Bastards by Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts

Behind the Bastards

15,578 Listeners

Dear Reader by Michael Collins and Emily Gushue Whalen

Dear Reader

1 Listeners

The Spouter-Inn by Suzanne Conklin Akbari and Chris Piuma

The Spouter-Inn

30 Listeners

This Is Your Mixtape by Michael Collins

This Is Your Mixtape

10 Listeners

Bad Gays by Huw Lemmey & Ben Miller

Bad Gays

502 Listeners

The Opposite Of Lonely by Nadia Halim

The Opposite Of Lonely

0 Listeners

A Part Of Our Scare-itage by Adam Clarke and Sarah Chamberlain

A Part Of Our Scare-itage

7 Listeners

5-4 by Prologue Projects

5-4

3,519 Listeners

The Scene of the Scene by Megaphonic

The Scene of the Scene

0 Listeners

You Are Good by Sarah Marshall + Alex Steed

You Are Good

2,707 Listeners

HubrisWeen! by S Frost and Tim Lehnerer

HubrisWeen!

0 Listeners

Kill James Bond! by November, Abigail, and Devon

Kill James Bond!

427 Listeners

Game Show 1939! by Chris Piuma and Michael Collins

Game Show 1939!

2 Listeners

Unclear and Present Danger by Jamelle Bouie and John Ganz

Unclear and Present Danger

582 Listeners

If Books Could Kill by Michael Hobbes & Peter Shamshiri

If Books Could Kill

9,265 Listeners

Shelved By Genre by Ranged Touch

Shelved By Genre

442 Listeners

SAD OLIGARCH by Cool Zone Media and H11

SAD OLIGARCH

235 Listeners

Weird Little Guys by iHeartPodcasts and Cool Zone Media

Weird Little Guys

1,003 Listeners