On this podcast we often explore the gender crisis affecting today’s young and vulnerable people. Today we bring on a different perspective from Phil Illy, a man who self-identifies as autogynephilic, meaning that he experiences a sexual attraction to the idea of himself as a woman. Originally described by sexologist Ray Blanchard, autogynephilia is a common contributor to gender dysphoria in young men. Yet the sexual component of “gender identity” is rarely addressed in the process of diagnosing and reviewing “treatment options” for gender dysphoria. Why is this?

Phil considers autogynephilia, as well as its counterpart in women, autoandrophilia, to belong to a broader category he calls autoheterosexuality. While many in the gender critical community consider these to be sexual fetishes, Phil refers to them instead as sexual orientations. Within that framework, he researched the issue extensively and wrote a book on the subject, Autoheterosexual: Attracted to Being the Other Sex.

Phil makes several further assertions in this interview, while I play devil’s advocate and push back, all in an attempt to bring understanding to listeners who are concerned for loved ones and expose both sides of the debate over this taboo topic. What does femininity mean to him? Is autoheterosexuality just another form of narcissism? What is its connection with autism?  How influenced is it by fetish pornography and niche online microcultures? Would it occur in a cultural vacuum? Is it heritable? How can it be a sexual orientation if it doesn’t involve another person; isn’t it just a fetish? Are “autohet” people capable of sustaining meaningful romantic relationships with others? How are their platonic relationships and quality of life? Are self-aware autogynephilic men threats to women, and under what conditions can we peacefully coexist?

UPDATE: this episode was recorded prior to Phil's appearance at the Genspect conference in Denver, which became the subject of much heated debate on X. I was not at the conference, but have weighed in online to some degree. Things got so heated around this issue I have temporarily locked my account. The best commentary I have found on the debacle comes from the ever-admirable Heather Heying on her blog, Natural Selections: The Public Fetish.

Phil Illy is a self described autogynephile and the author of Autoheterosexual: Attracted to Being the Other Sex. Phil received degrees in physics and mechanical engineering before retiring to Portland, Oregon, where he became best known for his skill at handstand twerking and juggling hula hoops. His Substack blog, Understanding Trans, can be found at https://phililly.substack.com/. Follow him on X @autogynephilic.

Other resources mentioned:

Landon & Robby Starbuck’s interview with detransitioner Chris Beck

00:00 Start

[00:01:52] Autogynephilia and sexual orientation.

[00:05:17] Auto-sexual orientations.

[00:10:08] Dynamic competition in relationships.

[00:14:32] Autogynephilic men and attraction.

[00:19:45] Body and identity.

[00:22:12] Embracing cross-sex identity.

[00:27:13] Attaining an excellent male physique.

[00:31:18] Celebrity crushes and real relationships.

[00:37:37] Sexual orientation and self-love.

[00:41:09] Neurological studies on AGP.

[00:47:09] Porn addiction and sissy hypnoporn.

[00:50:03] Autogynephilia as an inborn predisposition.

[00:55:46] Autogynephilia in the trans community.

[01:00:29] Overlap between autism and autogynephilia.

[01:04:45] Autogynephilia and Transgender Identities.

[01:07:23] Autoandrophilia and female-to-male transgenderism.

[01:11:28] Autoandrophilia in transsexuals.

[01:19:08] Autogynephilic males seeking identity.

[01:19:23] Autogynephilia and Medical Transition.

[01:24:31] Ignorance in therapist education.

[01:28:32] The complexity of bisexuality.

[01:34:08] Relations with women and envy.

[01:38:38] Men getting in touch with feminine side.

[01:43:18] The desire to be the other sex.

[01:46:16] Autosexuality as the culprit.

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Show notes & transcript provided with the help of SwellAI.

Special thanks to Joey Pecoraro for our theme song, “Half Awake,” used with gratitude and permission.

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